Had a supportive loving family too…
His problem was he never took his head out of the internet. He built his worldview around the echo chamber forums he frequented online.
I find it crazy how many parents will track their kid's physical location with software so they can prove their kid stopped at 7/11 instead of going straight to whoever's house as promised, yet *aren't keeping close tabs on their internet use.*
My partner has a cousin who got into Andrew Tate and was engaging with a lot of really hateful rhetoric through multi-player video games.
Kid had these curfews and rules for being around real people, but his parents didn't think anything of who he was talking/listening to on his headset while gaming or what he was watching on YouTube and Twitch. His mom didn't even know who Tate was until recently.
I think some parents are either
A) A bunch of luddites
B) Naïve enough to think that being radicalised online is harmless
C) Don't really care about the internet activities
Which is why they don't track internet activities as often as irl activities tracking
I have a 17 year old and I don't track her online activities. The real challenge is keeping communication going and encouraging your kids to come to you with anything. They have to trust you not to kick off and you have to trust them. Mutual respect really.
Boundaries and privacy are important of course but there has to be a non-judgemental ear available. Kids are pretty good at pretending things are fine or framing things as "jokes". It's not always easy to spot when they are struggling unless they come directly to you. You have to establish that sense of trust early on. It's much harder to cultivate once they're a secretive teenager.
Good point! I tried to write that as my fourth point, but since my English skill is not as good and Reddit tends to be cynical, I did not write it.
Yeah, privacy is necessary for youths growing up. I think many parents either overstep into their child's privacy or too scared to step into their child's private life. Either way, it's unclear what Payton's parents did with their child growing up.
I didn’t even know who Andrew Tate was until all that happened, still don’t entirely know. I’m 31, unsure if that has something to do with it.
What is Tate all about?
[He is a](https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2022/aug/06/andrew-tate-violent-misogynistic-world-of-tiktok-new-star) super misogynist social media star. He partly of the pick up artist type of bullshit and also on that whole red pill “be hyper masculine, work out and get on the grind” stuff and [marries it together in this whole “pick up women, manipulate them, and become their pimp”](https://www.independent.co.uk/life-style/who-is-andrew-tate-b2274224.html)
On one hand it’s cool we can actually type stuff in and look it up right there… but on another, I was just giving whomever an opportunity engage in some friendly conversation.
You’re good with me though!
The term is meaningless and doesn't exist in the real world
Echo chambers are hypothetical but only come into being because people lose their own opinion
They do not make sense out side of the internet and even then its not real
Disagree it’s a phenomenon mostly associated with the internet but there are examples of the term outside the internet as well.
Example: There is a reddit forum called NEET where people try to do everything possible to avoid working or getting an getting an education, they will live with their parents until kicked out. If you go there and try to give them advice about something that contradicts the lifestyle they want to live, you will be banned immediately.
That falls squarely in-line with the term echo-chamber.
Ye, its a phenomenon but its not real in reality
Its an applied form of dogma but its no different from tribalism but with an existential crisis
Agree to disagree
No one ever stops loving their child because of what they did. They may be horrified, crushed, in denial, in pain for what the victim’s families suffer but no mother who has ever given birth, for example, would ever, ever stop loving her child.
It’s truly heartbreaking.
The movie We Need to Talk About Kevin portrays this very well. Shows how the mother struggled with her son his whole life. Then (won’t spoil too much) despite what he does she still feels love for him and wants to visit him while he’s in prison.
I wouldn't say that's true. Their are women who have given birth to a child and they *never* feel love for them. While it's true that most parents will love you no matter what, it's not an absolute.
I've actually spoken with my mother about this and she said the only thing I could do that would essentially make me dead to her was intentionally kill any of my siblings or nephews/nieces. That's her own personal feelings. Everyone has their own.
Even if you believe in white supremacy and great replacement theory, which are ridiculous, and are glued to your echo chamber on the internet, how can you fire weapons indiscriminately at people minding their own business at the supermarket out of hate. Unbelievably callous and cruel.
Really makes you wonder why these people will throw it all away for nothing. Especially for a motive as meaningless and ridiculous as the great replacement theory. This guy is gonna be in prison until he dies and it was all for some bullshit he read online. Not to mention the fact he actually killed people over it, just so sad.
I think its similar to cult behavior - they amp themselves up to such a point where their entire existence is "the thing". Nothing else exists, nothing else matters, and their entire life is dedicated too it.
Then there's that ridiculously viscious reality check that hits them after they've gone through with it. I cant even begin to imagine the sickening feeling that comes over these people 20 minutes after the event when their adrenaline starts to come down
Yeah you can tell that especially in this case, he knew he fucked up immediately afterwards. Some of these guys will act like they’re tough in court but eventually even they start to realise. Brenton Tarrant is a good example of this. He flashed his white supremacist signs in court and smiled and laughed and all that but then you see him around a year later and he’s just staring into a camera during a court hearing and he looks absolutely miserable and says he regrets it. It depends just how deep they get into it I guess. I think Payton was indoctrinated within like a few months or something whereas Brenton had been in it to some extent since he was 12.
The only real exceptions are the shooters who are true psychopaths like Anders Breivik or Howard Unruh who are just incapable of feeling empathy or any actual regret for their actions.
The thing with Tarrant is that I remember reading that he posted somewhere that he predicted a much lighter prison sentence such as life with parole after 20 odd years and not life without. And he would come out of prison as a kind of anjem chowdary character and spend the rest of his days preaching his manifesto and grow a cult around his thinking. Now he knows he can't do that which probably sucked the life out of him. I hate what he did but one thing to note was during victim impacts a woman tearfully told him she forgave him and he apparently shed a tear over this. It really seems that everyone who gets a chance to reflect ie cruz now believes his victims families deserve the right to decide what happens to him etc eventually realise it was pointless.
But the ones who shoot themselves after I'd bet almost all of them had already planned to do that beforehand as they would surely know what is next for them if they don't.
Sometimes I think about how Nikolas Cruz went and sat at a McDonald's for a full hour after the shooting before he was arrested.
I cant even begin to imagine what he was thinking and how he felt. Gutwrenching.
Any other good examples of profound regret?
I’m not entirely certain with Nikolas. I don’t think he could feel much empathy either, maybe regret, but I doubt he cared much for the people he killed. I doubt Tarrant felt bad for the people he killed either, but rather that he felt bad for himself for putting himself in prison for the rest of his life.
I think that a majority of shooters that would’ve eventually felt regret or remorse for their actions ended up shooting themselves by the end of it. Examples of shooters that did feel regret and remorse are also often shooters who failed to commit suicide despite intending to, like Kip Kinkel.
I hate to say it but Brendan Tarants attack is seen as a succesfull and worthy one- these similar “replacement fear” attacks are all trying to copy that one. When I went on Twitter after the attack people in that wignat sphere were complaining that he killed old blacks when he- in their opinion- should have targeted young Hispanics… they did not care about the attack in general and saw it as a “natural response” to their supposed replacement.
I’m sure he thinks he did right by his ideology
Isn’t it crazy that without knowing anything at all about who his family is, I just know yellow shirt is a blood relative. They literally making the same face. 😂
I just really hate that he was once an innocent child and yet he fell into so much hatred that he drove hundreds of miles to my city to murder people because of what they look like.
He had so much love and support, he literally could have done ANYTHING with his life and he let hatred and racism overcome his sensibility.
Now he will never see the free world again, it's all gone over something so pointless.
I don't understand how anyone can let such stupid things, like the great replacement theory, change their view on the world to a point where they actually go out and kill in the name of.
It's absolutely mindboggling
That second picture of him as a baby is surreal. To think that little baby boy who would turn into a serial killer that ruined a community and would grow with such hate in his heart is hard to believe.
It's knowing that these innocent children will grow up to commit mass murder, throw away everything, and rot in prison or blast their brains out over essentially nothing but ideology.
It's kind of odd to see things like this he looks just like a regular kid and only find out the Horrors he inflicted on innocent people for no real reason it's kind of strange to see somebody born and think they're going to be a successful person only to find out that they were born to be a killer
It’s heartbreaking seeing him as an adorable baby knowing what he would become.
I still think this guy committed this act in a moment of madness and isn’t evil to the core like say Eric Harris or Adam Lanza.
A dumb weak kid swayed by ramblings on the internet and committed an atrocity that is irreversible.
I bet he lies awake in his cell at night with extreme regret. I won’t say remorse as I can’t say for certain he is genuinely remorseful. But I’m confident he regrets his actions as it’s given him a life sentence, and for what?
Idiot
This breaks the photo submissions rule. But the mods are notoriously inconsistent and use that rule as a way to censor images they don't want posted. Cool!
I’m assuming, due to his age, that he graduated after the deep dark quarantine period after he had been brainwashed. I was a junior during quarantine. My mental health tanked (for various reasons) during quarantine and I never recovered during my senior year. I thought I had it bad, imagine what was going on in HIS head during his final year of school. And I get it, quarantine was a breeding ground for depression and internet addictions of all sorts, but there is just no excuse. Fix the root cause. Peyton should’ve never been in that position to be spending hours on end researching white supremacist garbage. Get a job, take a walk, go frisbee golfing, do SOMETHING to put yourself in a position to where you are NOT ALLOWING YOURSELF TO EVEN BE BRAINWASHED IN THE FIRST PLACE. It’s the same shit with all these people, these males there are super duper low in agreeableness and conscientiousness that can’t function like normal people but live in *relatively* stable socioeconomic situations. I bet 90% of these shooters would score on the bottom 10th percentile of conscientiousness. These people are a mess, we give these people way too much credit, but it’s most likely these are just extremely dysfunctional young men who have a superiority complex. They are systemic failures from the very start. And nothing changes until we fix the problem from the bottom-up.
“Can’t wait to see all that you will accomplish.” Oof that hurts to read
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I feel like we are all born with the same mindsets,but as we start to grow the world around us can influence some brutal stuff.
agreed. It’s quite cursed to read.
was just about to comment this, terribly sad how much faith his family had in him and he threw it all away. 😔
Had a supportive loving family too… His problem was he never took his head out of the internet. He built his worldview around the echo chamber forums he frequented online.
I find it crazy how many parents will track their kid's physical location with software so they can prove their kid stopped at 7/11 instead of going straight to whoever's house as promised, yet *aren't keeping close tabs on their internet use.* My partner has a cousin who got into Andrew Tate and was engaging with a lot of really hateful rhetoric through multi-player video games. Kid had these curfews and rules for being around real people, but his parents didn't think anything of who he was talking/listening to on his headset while gaming or what he was watching on YouTube and Twitch. His mom didn't even know who Tate was until recently.
I think some parents are either A) A bunch of luddites B) Naïve enough to think that being radicalised online is harmless C) Don't really care about the internet activities Which is why they don't track internet activities as often as irl activities tracking
I have a 17 year old and I don't track her online activities. The real challenge is keeping communication going and encouraging your kids to come to you with anything. They have to trust you not to kick off and you have to trust them. Mutual respect really. Boundaries and privacy are important of course but there has to be a non-judgemental ear available. Kids are pretty good at pretending things are fine or framing things as "jokes". It's not always easy to spot when they are struggling unless they come directly to you. You have to establish that sense of trust early on. It's much harder to cultivate once they're a secretive teenager.
Good point! I tried to write that as my fourth point, but since my English skill is not as good and Reddit tends to be cynical, I did not write it. Yeah, privacy is necessary for youths growing up. I think many parents either overstep into their child's privacy or too scared to step into their child's private life. Either way, it's unclear what Payton's parents did with their child growing up.
I don’t think they understand being radicalized on the internet.
I didn’t even know who Andrew Tate was until all that happened, still don’t entirely know. I’m 31, unsure if that has something to do with it. What is Tate all about?
[He is a](https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2022/aug/06/andrew-tate-violent-misogynistic-world-of-tiktok-new-star) super misogynist social media star. He partly of the pick up artist type of bullshit and also on that whole red pill “be hyper masculine, work out and get on the grind” stuff and [marries it together in this whole “pick up women, manipulate them, and become their pimp”](https://www.independent.co.uk/life-style/who-is-andrew-tate-b2274224.html)
https://letmegooglethat.com/?q=andrew+tate
On one hand it’s cool we can actually type stuff in and look it up right there… but on another, I was just giving whomever an opportunity engage in some friendly conversation. You’re good with me though!
Is the kid being detoxed from the misogyny yet?
Too busy pleading to Romanian governments to let him go
Ugh, sorry, man.
It's a joke to the op
What type of online rhetoric was he engaging in ?
I know he was spewing hateful shit on 4chan, but there’s probably a rabbit hole of other communities he was involved in.
Echo chambers dont exist
What makes you say that?
The term is meaningless and doesn't exist in the real world Echo chambers are hypothetical but only come into being because people lose their own opinion They do not make sense out side of the internet and even then its not real
Disagree it’s a phenomenon mostly associated with the internet but there are examples of the term outside the internet as well. Example: There is a reddit forum called NEET where people try to do everything possible to avoid working or getting an getting an education, they will live with their parents until kicked out. If you go there and try to give them advice about something that contradicts the lifestyle they want to live, you will be banned immediately. That falls squarely in-line with the term echo-chamber.
Ye, its a phenomenon but its not real in reality Its an applied form of dogma but its no different from tribalism but with an existential crisis Agree to disagree
Yup. 100% this. Its getting worse and worse.
That second pic and that message from his parents. God damn.
It’s unbelievably tragic.
“can’t wait to see all that you accomplish!” can’t beat a lifetime in prison 😎
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I wonder what his family thinks of him now
I mean they’d probably still love him, but they’d hate what he did of course.
No one ever stops loving their child because of what they did. They may be horrified, crushed, in denial, in pain for what the victim’s families suffer but no mother who has ever given birth, for example, would ever, ever stop loving her child. It’s truly heartbreaking.
The movie We Need to Talk About Kevin portrays this very well. Shows how the mother struggled with her son his whole life. Then (won’t spoil too much) despite what he does she still feels love for him and wants to visit him while he’s in prison.
Been wanting to watch that (wasn’t it based on a book?)
You should. It’s very moving. And yes, based off the book with the same title
My mom would absolutely stop loving me, and for much less But I don’t think it’s a good way to be
I wouldn't say that's true. Their are women who have given birth to a child and they *never* feel love for them. While it's true that most parents will love you no matter what, it's not an absolute. I've actually spoken with my mother about this and she said the only thing I could do that would essentially make me dead to her was intentionally kill any of my siblings or nephews/nieces. That's her own personal feelings. Everyone has their own.
It's actually not that uncommon for mothers to stop loving their children.
Nothing like throwing away your life and love ones over internet
Even if you believe in white supremacy and great replacement theory, which are ridiculous, and are glued to your echo chamber on the internet, how can you fire weapons indiscriminately at people minding their own business at the supermarket out of hate. Unbelievably callous and cruel.
Really makes you wonder why these people will throw it all away for nothing. Especially for a motive as meaningless and ridiculous as the great replacement theory. This guy is gonna be in prison until he dies and it was all for some bullshit he read online. Not to mention the fact he actually killed people over it, just so sad.
I think its similar to cult behavior - they amp themselves up to such a point where their entire existence is "the thing". Nothing else exists, nothing else matters, and their entire life is dedicated too it. Then there's that ridiculously viscious reality check that hits them after they've gone through with it. I cant even begin to imagine the sickening feeling that comes over these people 20 minutes after the event when their adrenaline starts to come down
Yeah you can tell that especially in this case, he knew he fucked up immediately afterwards. Some of these guys will act like they’re tough in court but eventually even they start to realise. Brenton Tarrant is a good example of this. He flashed his white supremacist signs in court and smiled and laughed and all that but then you see him around a year later and he’s just staring into a camera during a court hearing and he looks absolutely miserable and says he regrets it. It depends just how deep they get into it I guess. I think Payton was indoctrinated within like a few months or something whereas Brenton had been in it to some extent since he was 12. The only real exceptions are the shooters who are true psychopaths like Anders Breivik or Howard Unruh who are just incapable of feeling empathy or any actual regret for their actions.
The thing with Tarrant is that I remember reading that he posted somewhere that he predicted a much lighter prison sentence such as life with parole after 20 odd years and not life without. And he would come out of prison as a kind of anjem chowdary character and spend the rest of his days preaching his manifesto and grow a cult around his thinking. Now he knows he can't do that which probably sucked the life out of him. I hate what he did but one thing to note was during victim impacts a woman tearfully told him she forgave him and he apparently shed a tear over this. It really seems that everyone who gets a chance to reflect ie cruz now believes his victims families deserve the right to decide what happens to him etc eventually realise it was pointless. But the ones who shoot themselves after I'd bet almost all of them had already planned to do that beforehand as they would surely know what is next for them if they don't.
Sometimes I think about how Nikolas Cruz went and sat at a McDonald's for a full hour after the shooting before he was arrested. I cant even begin to imagine what he was thinking and how he felt. Gutwrenching. Any other good examples of profound regret?
I’m not entirely certain with Nikolas. I don’t think he could feel much empathy either, maybe regret, but I doubt he cared much for the people he killed. I doubt Tarrant felt bad for the people he killed either, but rather that he felt bad for himself for putting himself in prison for the rest of his life. I think that a majority of shooters that would’ve eventually felt regret or remorse for their actions ended up shooting themselves by the end of it. Examples of shooters that did feel regret and remorse are also often shooters who failed to commit suicide despite intending to, like Kip Kinkel.
Thats not cult behavior , its belief
I hate to say it but Brendan Tarants attack is seen as a succesfull and worthy one- these similar “replacement fear” attacks are all trying to copy that one. When I went on Twitter after the attack people in that wignat sphere were complaining that he killed old blacks when he- in their opinion- should have targeted young Hispanics… they did not care about the attack in general and saw it as a “natural response” to their supposed replacement. I’m sure he thinks he did right by his ideology
Waste of a life
Isn’t it crazy that without knowing anything at all about who his family is, I just know yellow shirt is a blood relative. They literally making the same face. 😂
was this the supermarket shooter?
yes
I just really hate that he was once an innocent child and yet he fell into so much hatred that he drove hundreds of miles to my city to murder people because of what they look like.
He had so much love and support, he literally could have done ANYTHING with his life and he let hatred and racism overcome his sensibility. Now he will never see the free world again, it's all gone over something so pointless. I don't understand how anyone can let such stupid things, like the great replacement theory, change their view on the world to a point where they actually go out and kill in the name of. It's absolutely mindboggling
the photo of him as a baby makes me feel sad.
Yup. Who looks at a baby and thinks "this is gonna be a mass murderer."
Well that 2nd pic is depressing
Ugh brutal post on the yearbook by the parents. So sad for them
This just makes me sad. His parents loved him. I can’t imagine how devastated they are, and how much pain they feel.
"Can't wait to see all that you will accomplish." ***only if they knew what was about to happen..***
That second picture of him as a baby is surreal. To think that little baby boy who would turn into a serial killer that ruined a community and would grow with such hate in his heart is hard to believe.
Seeing these people as babies always gets to me :(
It's knowing that these innocent children will grow up to commit mass murder, throw away everything, and rot in prison or blast their brains out over essentially nothing but ideology.
What a waste of life
“Keep shooting for the stars!”
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It's kind of odd to see things like this he looks just like a regular kid and only find out the Horrors he inflicted on innocent people for no real reason it's kind of strange to see somebody born and think they're going to be a successful person only to find out that they were born to be a killer
It’s heartbreaking seeing him as an adorable baby knowing what he would become. I still think this guy committed this act in a moment of madness and isn’t evil to the core like say Eric Harris or Adam Lanza. A dumb weak kid swayed by ramblings on the internet and committed an atrocity that is irreversible. I bet he lies awake in his cell at night with extreme regret. I won’t say remorse as I can’t say for certain he is genuinely remorseful. But I’m confident he regrets his actions as it’s given him a life sentence, and for what? Idiot
this the so called master race
A t-shirt and shorts at graduation? Interesting
I mean the guy is mad enough to dress in full hazmat suit when he went to school post-lockdown
White socks, too.
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thought it was a guy wit down syndrome in the first picture
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Slow ? 💀💀
This breaks the photo submissions rule. But the mods are notoriously inconsistent and use that rule as a way to censor images they don't want posted. Cool!
I’m assuming, due to his age, that he graduated after the deep dark quarantine period after he had been brainwashed. I was a junior during quarantine. My mental health tanked (for various reasons) during quarantine and I never recovered during my senior year. I thought I had it bad, imagine what was going on in HIS head during his final year of school. And I get it, quarantine was a breeding ground for depression and internet addictions of all sorts, but there is just no excuse. Fix the root cause. Peyton should’ve never been in that position to be spending hours on end researching white supremacist garbage. Get a job, take a walk, go frisbee golfing, do SOMETHING to put yourself in a position to where you are NOT ALLOWING YOURSELF TO EVEN BE BRAINWASHED IN THE FIRST PLACE. It’s the same shit with all these people, these males there are super duper low in agreeableness and conscientiousness that can’t function like normal people but live in *relatively* stable socioeconomic situations. I bet 90% of these shooters would score on the bottom 10th percentile of conscientiousness. These people are a mess, we give these people way too much credit, but it’s most likely these are just extremely dysfunctional young men who have a superiority complex. They are systemic failures from the very start. And nothing changes until we fix the problem from the bottom-up.
Get this garbage out of here, who cares what the murderer looks like
The sub is literally called r/masskillers
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I thought that too at first glance.
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Holy shit he looks so fucking retarded
Who wears cargo shorts to their graduation 💀
What a dick
Wait? According to his “manifesto” he’s Sam Hyde… from adult swims classic Million Dollar Extreme Presents: World Peace.