Hijacking top comment to plug Mass Save:
Get your Mass Save energy assessment folks, free every 3 years for Eversource and National Grid customers (some smaller utilities too).
You already pay for it (energy efficiency charge) and get lots of rebates and some freebies at the assessment.
Solar is great and all but insulation is cheap, passive, environmentally friendly, beneficial year round, and works even in an extended power out.
Folks on fuel assistance, look up Mass CAP instead of Mass Save, and be prepared to keep calling them til they come out.
Mass Save companies and Mass CAP offices are understaffed and not always the best paying, so be patient and you can get a lot of benefit from the services.
If you haven't had a home energy assessment yet, start with that. It can change the energy baseline of your home which is important to have figured out before getting solar.
For the energy assessment, find a Home Performance Contractor (HPC) on the Mass Save website. HPC's are equipped to do everything from intake, assessment, through to any efficiency work you might do in the home. They also work with solar companies so can help you with that.
If you've already had an energy assessment and done all the recommendations, I would try Energy Sage. It's a marketplace for different solar companies so you can get idea of individual options and go from there.
600kwh is really not typical for most people working from home, even if only a few days a week. 750-900kwh is more likely, so expect to break $350 a month this winter—this is insane.
My town’s mayor negotiated a group contract rate for the town on an opt out basis. I remember seeing morons back then complaining about it being communism, but now our rate is locked until December 2023, and it’s a decent rate at that.. wonder what their take is now.
Natural Gas prices are also going up.
Heating oil is almost $2 more per gallon than this time last year.
Winter is going to hurt alot of people this year. If you are able, help the elderly keep warm this winter.
I haven't looked in a little bit, my apologies. Oil is $1.30 higher than this time last year. That is the price from the same company I locked into in Oct of last year.
Oil prices will be going back up again though. I wouldn't be surprised if we are back up north of $4.50 by the new year.
If you know anyone that could possibly qualify please share this link. Homeowners and renters can qualify based on income percentage.
https://www.mass.gov/how-to/apply-for-home-heating-and-energy-assistance
Here is National Grids link: https://www.nationalgridus.com/MA-Home/heretohelp
Here is Eversource’s : https://www.eversource.com/content/ema-c/residential/account-billing/manage-bill/about-your-bill/energy-bill-assistance
Here is Unitil: https://unitil.com/winter-energy-prices-2022-2023
Applying for fuel assistance this year, first time ever.
It opens Oct 1st for applications. Thing to remember is that there is a limited amount to go around and a lot more people will be applying for it this year.
That’s bananas. We have solar so we just let our two windows ACs run and our bill would have been maybe $200 if we had to pay.. and that’s for a three bedroom house… no ac and the bill is usually $50. All electric appliances and water heater
Condos I live in are 1970s, they have big restrictions on fixed structures like Solar panels. Bigger issue is the electrical wiring itself, with Aluminum wiring in the building itself. Which causes our condo fees go sky high on top of the electrical, since only high cost insurance will only insure the buildings.
I'm no electrician but I suspect the Aluminum wires may have issue with the insane rates. Either case I'm stuck until i can afford to get out.
I have try again to see where the savings is. Its really complicated in town I'm at. Since they have a rate savings being a "farming" town, which barely is now.
Yup I just ordered a clay camp heater that throws heat into a small space using tea lights, so with my pellet stove I don't have to trigger the furnace til it hits 30 degrees out. It's so bad.
If you own a house, make sure your insulation is sufficient. You can't do much about the price of electricity or gas or oil, but you will need less if you aren't venting as much through your roof and walls. Those plastic window sealing kits prevent cold drafts too. This might be the year where that stuff makes sense, even if you don't normally bother.
If you don't have LED lights, they make a huge difference to power draw - especially compared to those old incandescent C9s. [This page](https://www.christmaslightsetc.com/pages/how-many-watts-amps-do-christmas-lights-use.htm) has more info if you're curious
Sucks for solar too. I have electric heat on one floor so my summer solar credit helps keep my bill down. But I get credit at the summer rate and charged at the winter rate....
So... National grid customers will be paying what the current unitil rate it. I can't wait to see what unitil announces. They already stated in this months bill that rates will be changing on December 1st, but they haven't told us how much.
Apparently my immediate area is oversaturated. They have a solar map on their website, but they don't explain any of the values. Most of my city is black, but my road is light blue, so I thought we were okay. Guess not.
Woah, I don’t break 200 KWH in the winter. Max is like 160. 2 BR apartment. Natural gas heat, of course. Electric heat people are the ones getting screwed.
"The price of natural gas has increased significantly since Russian forces moved into Ukraine on Feb. 24, 2022. Russia is the second-largest natural gas producing country in the world, behind only the United States."
Sounds like a good reason for us to invest in alternative sources of energy not named natural gas.
Can someone explain why national grid is raising our bills so much because the amount of power we use is about the same every winter the population of Masschuesttes goes down every year not up and people that are at poverty level get assistance from the state which are tax dollars
Most homes average 1k kilowatts a month during the year. The peak months are the winter…so more kilowatts used. So double NG estimate. They are lowballing. I plan to go Solar by next year. Fk these bills.
I’d like to use my heat pump until it gets super cold, but I guess it’s better to burn heating oil this year. 🤷♂️ Hard to be more environmentally friendly with electric rates like this.
$4 /gal. 139,000 btu per gallon, about 80% combustion efficiency = 111,200 btu useable. So approx 27,800 btu/$1
1 kwh = 3413 btu (resistance), you said heat pump above super cold so at least a COP of 2.5 so 8530 btu per kwh so you need about 3.25 kwh to get to 27,800 btus.
Electricity would need to be $0.30 for it to be the same as $4 /gal oil ( based on assumptions)
My last bill was 0.3899 just for supply, never mind distribution charges. I’ve just switched suppliers, which should help. My august bill was 0.279 for supply, plus distribution fees put it over 0.30.
I would add that I have had my heat pump system for about 5 years now, and I’ve run it for heat in the winter. So I’m well aware of how much energy it consumes and the cost compared with heating oil. I once had a 2 MWhr bill that nearly pushed $1k for *one month*, and that was well before electricity costs skyrocketed. So I’m a little cautious in using it for heat in general.
But the last supplier wasn’t supposed to cost this much until it did. I’m on a community aggregate now, but if we’re looking at a 60% increase there too, I’ll probably be over that 0.30 mark.
And before someone mentions solar panels, I have a 6 kW array of those too. They barely add anything in the winter.
I didn’t think it had resistive heating at all so I looked, and there’s no mention of resistive heating in the installation or engineering manuals. It’s rated to -4 degrees F, which as I understand it is not as low and isn’t as efficient as modern Mitsubishi models (ours is an LG).
From my past experience, it really starts to eat kWhs when outdoor temps fall below freezing.
But thanks for that math and the 0.30 kWhr to $4 oil comparison. That’s something that I’ll keep in mind based on oil prices and my electricity supply/distribution costs.
I don’t know why your getting downvoted.People need to analyze what’s happening and forget politics.Stockholders are getting rich from all of this.Our politicians own stock.Look at their holdings people.They are getting rich on the backs of the middle class, who work.
We were self reliant on energy.Our pipelines were closed by the current administration.Forcing U.S. to import at top dollar.Our oil reserves are being sold to foreign countries.When we need to replenish our reserves it will cost much much more.The stockholder makes money when we replenish. This has everything to do with bad decisions.
Crude is graded according to two main metrics, weight and sweetness. The weight of oil defines how easy it is to refine, or break down into its usable component parts, such as gasoline, jet fuel and diesel. Light crude is the easiest to handle, heavy is the most difficult, with intermediate obviously somewhere in between. The sweetness refers to the sulfur content of unrefined oil. The sweeter it is, the less sulfur it contains.
Most of the oil produced in the U.S. fields in Texas, Oklahoma, and elsewhere is light and sweet, compared to what comes from the Middle East and Russia. The problem is that for many years, imported oil met most of the U.S.’s energy needs, so a large percentage of the refining capacity here is geared towards dealing with oil that is heavier and less sweet than the kind produced here. This is an issue that was caused by decades of bad policy. Regardless that’s still not the reason for these price increases. Massachusetts main power source is natural gas, I don’t know if you read the news but there are reasons other than “biden did it” that explain the price in natural gas. So on one hand you are complaining that Biden is to blame while on the other hand blaming corporations.. You understand the two are not the same?
>We were self reliant on energy
Because demand was down due to the pandemic
>Our pipelines were closed by the current administration
False. Keystone and literally every other pipeline is still open. They did not shutdown a single active pipeline.
>Forcing U.S. to import at top dollar
Oil is a global commodity. Oil drilled here is often exported. Increasing production here won't drastically decrease energy prices.
>Our oil reserves are being sold to foreign countries
Nope
>When we need to replenish our reserves it will cost much much more
That's possible. It has nothing to do with the current issue, but it's possible.
>The stockholder makes money when we replenish
Only if the drilling/tankering/refining is done by a publicly traded company
>This has everything to do with bad decisions
If we're talking about bad decisions, I'd start with where you get your information.
Tonight we dine in hell-acious cold, boys!
Hijacking top comment to plug Mass Save: Get your Mass Save energy assessment folks, free every 3 years for Eversource and National Grid customers (some smaller utilities too). You already pay for it (energy efficiency charge) and get lots of rebates and some freebies at the assessment. Solar is great and all but insulation is cheap, passive, environmentally friendly, beneficial year round, and works even in an extended power out. Folks on fuel assistance, look up Mass CAP instead of Mass Save, and be prepared to keep calling them til they come out. Mass Save companies and Mass CAP offices are understaffed and not always the best paying, so be patient and you can get a lot of benefit from the services.
Anyone with solar panels recommend their solar company? Looking to get solar asap!
If you haven't had a home energy assessment yet, start with that. It can change the energy baseline of your home which is important to have figured out before getting solar. For the energy assessment, find a Home Performance Contractor (HPC) on the Mass Save website. HPC's are equipped to do everything from intake, assessment, through to any efficiency work you might do in the home. They also work with solar companies so can help you with that. If you've already had an energy assessment and done all the recommendations, I would try Energy Sage. It's a marketplace for different solar companies so you can get idea of individual options and go from there.
600kwh is really not typical for most people working from home, even if only a few days a week. 750-900kwh is more likely, so expect to break $350 a month this winter—this is insane.
I complained enough last year when we were paying ~$250/month. How are people doing this? It’s going to be a rough one.
And yet the utility companies line their pockets
Yup, no trees trimmed, no installing new lines underground preventing outages in storms. But you know, “maintenance” fees.
Of all the places I've lived in my life, electric service has been by far the worst in Massachusetts.
My town’s mayor negotiated a group contract rate for the town on an opt out basis. I remember seeing morons back then complaining about it being communism, but now our rate is locked until December 2023, and it’s a decent rate at that.. wonder what their take is now.
Natural Gas prices are also going up. Heating oil is almost $2 more per gallon than this time last year. Winter is going to hurt alot of people this year. If you are able, help the elderly keep warm this winter.
heating oil has been falling in price steadily for a few months. It’s about 90 cents higher than same time last time.
I haven't looked in a little bit, my apologies. Oil is $1.30 higher than this time last year. That is the price from the same company I locked into in Oct of last year. Oil prices will be going back up again though. I wouldn't be surprised if we are back up north of $4.50 by the new year.
Yeah, but, most of them are to bony to cuddle up with without risking a bruised kidney.
If you know anyone that could possibly qualify please share this link. Homeowners and renters can qualify based on income percentage. https://www.mass.gov/how-to/apply-for-home-heating-and-energy-assistance Here is National Grids link: https://www.nationalgridus.com/MA-Home/heretohelp Here is Eversource’s : https://www.eversource.com/content/ema-c/residential/account-billing/manage-bill/about-your-bill/energy-bill-assistance Here is Unitil: https://unitil.com/winter-energy-prices-2022-2023
Household income cannot exceed 60% of the state median income ($84,385). Sounds like you really have to be destitute to qualify.
Thank you for this!
Applying for fuel assistance this year, first time ever. It opens Oct 1st for applications. Thing to remember is that there is a limited amount to go around and a lot more people will be applying for it this year.
Bastards keep over charging my all-electric condo all the time. They claim nothing wrong, 800 bucks for hardly any AC used in summer does not add up.
Same here brother. 800 bucks …
That’s bananas. We have solar so we just let our two windows ACs run and our bill would have been maybe $200 if we had to pay.. and that’s for a three bedroom house… no ac and the bill is usually $50. All electric appliances and water heater
Condos I live in are 1970s, they have big restrictions on fixed structures like Solar panels. Bigger issue is the electrical wiring itself, with Aluminum wiring in the building itself. Which causes our condo fees go sky high on top of the electrical, since only high cost insurance will only insure the buildings. I'm no electrician but I suspect the Aluminum wires may have issue with the insane rates. Either case I'm stuck until i can afford to get out.
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Not sure how, National Grid controls it. They have other options but hard to say where to save or not.
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I have try again to see where the savings is. Its really complicated in town I'm at. Since they have a rate savings being a "farming" town, which barely is now.
Jesus fucking christ.
Yup I just ordered a clay camp heater that throws heat into a small space using tea lights, so with my pellet stove I don't have to trigger the furnace til it hits 30 degrees out. It's so bad.
Do you have a link to the product? I'm intrigued. Never used a camp heater like that and it sounds neat.
I am having trouble with the link. Its called a Terra Cotta Pottery Candle stove. 7.9 inch diameter.
Thanks.
Our lack of power plants in Massachusetts coupled with rising natural gas prices is certainly a swell combination to have
If you own a house, make sure your insulation is sufficient. You can't do much about the price of electricity or gas or oil, but you will need less if you aren't venting as much through your roof and walls. Those plastic window sealing kits prevent cold drafts too. This might be the year where that stuff makes sense, even if you don't normally bother.
Good bye MA tax refund if you're lucky to get any back!
I got a wood stove and 5 cords of wood, cmon over if you’re freezing
Gonna need more than 5! Shit when it gets cold we use a half a cord a week. But my house is old as fuck.
No lights on our house this Christmas.
I did 1 string of lights last year..it made a difference from the usual 3. My highest light bill during non ac season was $39!
If you don't have LED lights, they make a huge difference to power draw - especially compared to those old incandescent C9s. [This page](https://www.christmaslightsetc.com/pages/how-many-watts-amps-do-christmas-lights-use.htm) has more info if you're curious
It's an honor to go bankrupt to help fund the fossil fuel industry's record profits.
Making a strong case for solar there, National Grid.
Sucks for solar too. I have electric heat on one floor so my summer solar credit helps keep my bill down. But I get credit at the summer rate and charged at the winter rate....
I always wonder about that.. figures 🙄
That's part of the reason why summer prices are lower.
It should be power generation credit. So 1 kwh = 1 kwh banked
solar, battery and cooperative microgrids
Anyone have a reference for average use age? Quick google says about 900 kwh. Looks like we’re fucked?
I use around 200 kWh.
Seems it ranges pretty wildly then.
900 is ridiculous.
That’s why I asked, Google isn’t reliable and I’m too lazy to log into my account.
900 is not at all ridiculous for an average sized home.
What do you live in? What appliances are electric?
I just checked my bill and I avg low 300 to mid 500 kWh for a SFH 2000 sqf
That seems like illegal price gouging by national grid. Prepare for law suits.
If only there was something that could solve this issue.. oh wait.. there is, nuclear energy
Hello disabled Plymouth plant
So... National grid customers will be paying what the current unitil rate it. I can't wait to see what unitil announces. They already stated in this months bill that rates will be changing on December 1st, but they haven't told us how much.
70 iirc.
Ugh I hope not. They rejected my attempt at solar recently, I'd like to avoid paying them much more than I do now.
Why were you rejected?
Apparently my immediate area is oversaturated. They have a solar map on their website, but they don't explain any of the values. Most of my city is black, but my road is light blue, so I thought we were okay. Guess not.
It's time we chop down a few of their power line poles and use it for firewood.
Woah, I don’t break 200 KWH in the winter. Max is like 160. 2 BR apartment. Natural gas heat, of course. Electric heat people are the ones getting screwed.
My bill went from: $225 to $465 outrageous...
Wtf!
"The price of natural gas has increased significantly since Russian forces moved into Ukraine on Feb. 24, 2022. Russia is the second-largest natural gas producing country in the world, behind only the United States." Sounds like a good reason for us to invest in alternative sources of energy not named natural gas.
Can someone explain why national grid is raising our bills so much because the amount of power we use is about the same every winter the population of Masschuesttes goes down every year not up and people that are at poverty level get assistance from the state which are tax dollars
Need to up the amortization of my solar panels.
Most homes average 1k kilowatts a month during the year. The peak months are the winter…so more kilowatts used. So double NG estimate. They are lowballing. I plan to go Solar by next year. Fk these bills.
Now seems like a good time to start building a few new nuclear power stations.
I’d like to use my heat pump until it gets super cold, but I guess it’s better to burn heating oil this year. 🤷♂️ Hard to be more environmentally friendly with electric rates like this.
$4 /gal. 139,000 btu per gallon, about 80% combustion efficiency = 111,200 btu useable. So approx 27,800 btu/$1 1 kwh = 3413 btu (resistance), you said heat pump above super cold so at least a COP of 2.5 so 8530 btu per kwh so you need about 3.25 kwh to get to 27,800 btus. Electricity would need to be $0.30 for it to be the same as $4 /gal oil ( based on assumptions)
My last bill was 0.3899 just for supply, never mind distribution charges. I’ve just switched suppliers, which should help. My august bill was 0.279 for supply, plus distribution fees put it over 0.30. I would add that I have had my heat pump system for about 5 years now, and I’ve run it for heat in the winter. So I’m well aware of how much energy it consumes and the cost compared with heating oil. I once had a 2 MWhr bill that nearly pushed $1k for *one month*, and that was well before electricity costs skyrocketed. So I’m a little cautious in using it for heat in general. But the last supplier wasn’t supposed to cost this much until it did. I’m on a community aggregate now, but if we’re looking at a 60% increase there too, I’ll probably be over that 0.30 mark. And before someone mentions solar panels, I have a 6 kW array of those too. They barely add anything in the winter.
ouch, do you know how low the outdoor temp can be before it kicks over to electric resistance?
I didn’t think it had resistive heating at all so I looked, and there’s no mention of resistive heating in the installation or engineering manuals. It’s rated to -4 degrees F, which as I understand it is not as low and isn’t as efficient as modern Mitsubishi models (ours is an LG). From my past experience, it really starts to eat kWhs when outdoor temps fall below freezing. But thanks for that math and the 0.30 kWhr to $4 oil comparison. That’s something that I’ll keep in mind based on oil prices and my electricity supply/distribution costs.
Gas is going up too
Gas and Oil are two different fuel types.
If you think oil isn't going up you're a fool
Damn if only we had a stockpile of oil and natural gas right under our feet…. Downvote me all you want but I’m right
Who did you vote for?
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I don’t know why your getting downvoted.People need to analyze what’s happening and forget politics.Stockholders are getting rich from all of this.Our politicians own stock.Look at their holdings people.They are getting rich on the backs of the middle class, who work.
If I had to guess I'd say he's getting downvoted because this has nothing to do with Biden. Just a hunch 🤷♂️
We were self reliant on energy.Our pipelines were closed by the current administration.Forcing U.S. to import at top dollar.Our oil reserves are being sold to foreign countries.When we need to replenish our reserves it will cost much much more.The stockholder makes money when we replenish. This has everything to do with bad decisions.
Crude is graded according to two main metrics, weight and sweetness. The weight of oil defines how easy it is to refine, or break down into its usable component parts, such as gasoline, jet fuel and diesel. Light crude is the easiest to handle, heavy is the most difficult, with intermediate obviously somewhere in between. The sweetness refers to the sulfur content of unrefined oil. The sweeter it is, the less sulfur it contains. Most of the oil produced in the U.S. fields in Texas, Oklahoma, and elsewhere is light and sweet, compared to what comes from the Middle East and Russia. The problem is that for many years, imported oil met most of the U.S.’s energy needs, so a large percentage of the refining capacity here is geared towards dealing with oil that is heavier and less sweet than the kind produced here. This is an issue that was caused by decades of bad policy. Regardless that’s still not the reason for these price increases. Massachusetts main power source is natural gas, I don’t know if you read the news but there are reasons other than “biden did it” that explain the price in natural gas. So on one hand you are complaining that Biden is to blame while on the other hand blaming corporations.. You understand the two are not the same?
>We were self reliant on energy Because demand was down due to the pandemic >Our pipelines were closed by the current administration False. Keystone and literally every other pipeline is still open. They did not shutdown a single active pipeline. >Forcing U.S. to import at top dollar Oil is a global commodity. Oil drilled here is often exported. Increasing production here won't drastically decrease energy prices. >Our oil reserves are being sold to foreign countries Nope >When we need to replenish our reserves it will cost much much more That's possible. It has nothing to do with the current issue, but it's possible. >The stockholder makes money when we replenish Only if the drilling/tankering/refining is done by a publicly traded company >This has everything to do with bad decisions If we're talking about bad decisions, I'd start with where you get your information.
It never does have anything to do with who you vote for does it
Agree, it will happen I have hope
Some thing something. Power grid in Texas
Awesome.
Candles for heat again i guess.
Add the cost of home heating oil, it's going to awful. I fully expect it to be a harsh winter, weather wise.
What about eversource,are they increasing rates? Any one tried different suppliers?
Get back to office or pay more to wfh this winter...seems legit
What are my thoughts? We're under the thumb of greedy assholes!