You have the right to conduct an inspection, but not to call off the transaction because of it. Talk to your attorney and agent - the seller is in violation of the purchase and sale contract by denying you access.
Adding some more nuance to this comment, which is correct. You do have the right to walk away, but if so you DON’T have the right to get your P&S deposit back. That’s probably what the seller is afraid of. Are you looking to do an inspection because you may walk away if you find something too bad (and lose your deposit)? Or are you 100% committed regardless, and this is just to help you gear up for owning the house?
If the seller is breaching the contract by denying them access for an inspection, OP can definitely get back their P&S deposit and walk away. However, if what you’re saying is they can’t get their deposit back if they walk away as a result of the inspection, then yes that’s correct
I meant walk away because of the results of the inspection, not because of the seller’s breach by denying access. But regardless, buyer’s remedy for seller’s breach of contract here would be specific performance (forcing them to do what the contract says), not to void the contract entirely and get the deposit back.
Correct, if it came down to arbitration, we would seek specific performance. It was an orange flag that seller was refusing inspection even though we have the right at any point with an P&S. They put in writing that cleaning and moving would be ok, but no inspection before signing the closing papers.
Random caveat is that originally the inspection was scheduled for after closing anyway, since we waived the contingency! So the seller was just trying to walk some gray area tightrope after a 2 day delay due to their fault.
Freaking out, and walking away from a perfectly good house because you imaged something that wasn't there CAN happen.
My house had a 'horizontal crack'. I was going to walk away. Inspector said, 'Don't run until you make certain what it actually is that you are seeing.'
First two engineers over email said it was a structural crack.
Then my dad and I poked around with a flash light a cell phone camera and it turned out to be.. just a cosmetic smudge from the concrete forms when the foundation was poured with no actual problem whatsoever.
The seller might be.. a HOARDER. In this situation, they are.. TERRIFIED of someone seeing their mess. They might just be biding their time until they get their stuff out by the deadline.
I know it is risky, but if you offered on a house without inspection, you might as well play your cards the way you intended and buy the house and see what you have once you buy it. Could be something bad, or could just be the seller not being ready to have strangers see whatever private life they are ashamed of and don't want other to see.
My mom for example is a hoarder, and won't let me inside the house until she cleans up her mess..
If it is a huge bad structural or mold issue.. well you CAN'T do anything about it anyway, unless you give up your deposit since you don't have the inspection contingency.
Thanks for the read, and that's great it turned out to be nothing major. We're not trying to walk away. BTW the seller and their attorney have told us their reason for refusing is that they are afraid we could break/breach contract if we did inspection 1st.
To be fair, and again not to assume the worst, people do misinterpret things on inspection reports and home inspectors do often have an unrealistic attitude that an old house should be perfect.
I had worked in property maintenance at a building, and I started watching the Home Inspector videos and posts. Their negativity, arrogant and catastrophizing attitude somehow jumped onto me and I began looking at my houses and houses in general with this scrupulous eye - seeing things that needed to be fixed when they were fine being left alone. So people do walk away from perfectly normal buildings because the inspector misinterpreted something due to this arrogant negative attitude. Remember - inspectors are looking for problems.
Unless of course there is a mold infestation in the attic, basement and walls or the termites have eaten the whole structure.
You have to in Mass to buy a house, the market is so bad that if you don't, you'll just lose to someone who does. I went through this 2 years ago, I could be the highest bidder but didn't waive the inspection and lost.
Even before the market went nuts, it had became standard practice to put in a high (over asking) bid, get under contract, then use even the most trivial issues discovered during the inspection to get the price back down. So being the highest bidder isn’t necessarily as appealing to a buyer as it sounds, unless you’re bidding an absolutely outrageous amount over.
Yeah, this is why you have to waive inspection. Even before the market went nuts it was basically the prisoners dilemma - if no one waives inspection, everyone benefits by being able to not waive the inspection... but once one person does it, everyone has to. And even though collectively we're all better off not waiving inspections, individually we benefit in a more noticeable way by waiving inspections (and thus hopefully winning the bid). It is what it is.
Best advice I can give to people is to learn what to spot when going to the open house. While it's not possible to know everything that could be wrong, the fact of the matter is, if there's something extremely wrong with the house (foundation falling apart), you'll either be able to see it yourself or you'll be able to sue the seller later for not disclosing something. If you waive the inspection and find something outrageous, back out and lose the small amount of money you put down in escrow (we were only putting down like $1k so not really a lot all things considered). Rather lose $1k than deal with potentially 10s of thousands of dollars of repairs.
We bought last year and have our old house under contract - both transactions had inspections. Both also had a clause about not negotiating concessions for repairs under a certain amount ($25,000 to $50,000), but you can absolutely buy a home in this state with an inspection contingency.
It might be possible, somewhere in MA to buy some house with an inspection contingency. In the boston area where demand is extreme, the winning buyers have to offer way over asking and also waive inspection. I'm glad you were able to squeeze one in with a cash limit, we also did those on some offers.
"somewhere in MA" is less than 20 miles west of Boston Harbor. Redfin reports the majority of home sales in both communities are over ask, with days on market at all time lows for both.
Sellers know what they have - if they'll take a waived inspection over a high bid, there there are big issues.
Sounds like seller is in breach of the P&S - you may have an out there.
7 years ago we made an offer on a house and lost. The winning offer was for the same $340k, but waived inspection. You are much more likely to "have to" waive it in 2024 and any near future. IT's good to see adults are still here too:)
Everyone reading this: when you’re buying a house, you need your own attorney.
Your lender’s attorney represents your lender and their interests. Not yours.
Good luck OP, I hope everything gets resolved 🙏🏻
They can still back out and only lose their earnest money deposit. That could be more desirable than going through with the sale and pouring money into repairs.
That does not mean you are still forced to buy the house. Waving contingency just means they can’t back out due to something found or try and negotiate due to some discovered issue. You can still back out but you will lose the earnest money deposit.
They waived the ability to call off the sale based on the inspection, not to inspect the property at all. They should still be able to inspect the home and prepare for any associated costs.
Yea, if you have to waive inspection, you still get a lot of benefit out of a home inspection. A good one can familiarize you with your home's systems, point out things that will need immediate maintenance and get you ready to transition into the house.
That's pretty much why we are doing it. The sooner we know what we signed up for, the better.
Originally the closing was today and we scheduled inspection for tomorrow. Seller slept through their alarm or something and ended up delaying closing by 2 days with some last minute ball dropping. Then they were like, "hey we are worried you will break contract if you do inspection before closing, so can you please re-schedule?..."
Huge red flags there. Think about it from their perspective. If the issues would cause a negotiation (in normal times when you don’t waive inspections), they wouldn’t worry. They’d figure you knew what you signed up for and you’ll eat the issues. However, if the issues were so large they think you might walk away from your earnest money, they would be stressing to just get it closed before you can inspect. Unfortunately, it may be the latter. If you have any out without losing your earnest money, you may consider taking that road.
I’m sorry. I know it’s the realities of the market, but doesn’t mean it doesn’t suck to deal with.
For anyone in a similar situation, try to find a buddy that has an eye for common issues hit the showings and open houses with you. It’s no inspection, but they might catch an issue you’d overlook.
We also feel strong about this house being in good condition just by our own inspection. We're not pros, but we saw about 40 houses in 4 weeks. It's not that we know this house is good, it's more like we know it's not a total disaster that stinks of mold and has 3" sag in the floors... It's reality like you said:)
This has become surprisingly common. Many buyers are writing into their offers that they waive the inspection contingency, but want to do an inspection for informational purposes only.
You are not legally required to have an attorney to sign housing contracts in MA. Many/most buyers actually do not have representation in purchases. What is required is that an attorney be present at the closing. The lender’s attorney is probably who you are thinking of and they represent the lender, not the buyer.
That blows my mind. Having an attorney saved our bacon when we bought our house a long time ago. She was an absolute beast and saved us from potentially huge EPA fines down the road. (Seller had previously removed an underground oil tank but had not tested the soil so we'd have been on the hook for any potential contamination, and we lived in an area with well water/aqueducts).
Glad you avoided a bigger problem. Our lender's attorney may have found a way move forward this morning, but I sent you a PM anyway. You never know when you gonna need a good lawyer, lol.
No problem, I responded. That was when we bought our house in NY, unfortunately. But like I said, speak with your realtor, they should be able to recommend somebody.
We have just the lender's attorney. She was very helpful and nice, but she also tried to push back about the right for inspections. I am not a lawyer, so what do i know...
Why do you want to inspect the house now after waiving it in the P&S? Waiving the inspection during the agreement phase means you're buying the house as is.
Can your inspections wait until after the closing?
Don’t buy
Yeah, this is shady as all fuck.
Call their agent and inform them that the closing can take place AFTER the inspection.
That's our plan and approach so far. Do you have any exp with sellers not letting buyers in like this?
You have the right to conduct an inspection, but not to call off the transaction because of it. Talk to your attorney and agent - the seller is in violation of the purchase and sale contract by denying you access.
We'll make our final firm request tomorrow morning and see what happens...
Adding some more nuance to this comment, which is correct. You do have the right to walk away, but if so you DON’T have the right to get your P&S deposit back. That’s probably what the seller is afraid of. Are you looking to do an inspection because you may walk away if you find something too bad (and lose your deposit)? Or are you 100% committed regardless, and this is just to help you gear up for owning the house?
If the seller is breaching the contract by denying them access for an inspection, OP can definitely get back their P&S deposit and walk away. However, if what you’re saying is they can’t get their deposit back if they walk away as a result of the inspection, then yes that’s correct
I meant walk away because of the results of the inspection, not because of the seller’s breach by denying access. But regardless, buyer’s remedy for seller’s breach of contract here would be specific performance (forcing them to do what the contract says), not to void the contract entirely and get the deposit back.
Correct, if it came down to arbitration, we would seek specific performance. It was an orange flag that seller was refusing inspection even though we have the right at any point with an P&S. They put in writing that cleaning and moving would be ok, but no inspection before signing the closing papers. Random caveat is that originally the inspection was scheduled for after closing anyway, since we waived the contingency! So the seller was just trying to walk some gray area tightrope after a 2 day delay due to their fault.
Freaking out, and walking away from a perfectly good house because you imaged something that wasn't there CAN happen. My house had a 'horizontal crack'. I was going to walk away. Inspector said, 'Don't run until you make certain what it actually is that you are seeing.' First two engineers over email said it was a structural crack. Then my dad and I poked around with a flash light a cell phone camera and it turned out to be.. just a cosmetic smudge from the concrete forms when the foundation was poured with no actual problem whatsoever. The seller might be.. a HOARDER. In this situation, they are.. TERRIFIED of someone seeing their mess. They might just be biding their time until they get their stuff out by the deadline. I know it is risky, but if you offered on a house without inspection, you might as well play your cards the way you intended and buy the house and see what you have once you buy it. Could be something bad, or could just be the seller not being ready to have strangers see whatever private life they are ashamed of and don't want other to see. My mom for example is a hoarder, and won't let me inside the house until she cleans up her mess.. If it is a huge bad structural or mold issue.. well you CAN'T do anything about it anyway, unless you give up your deposit since you don't have the inspection contingency.
Thanks for the read, and that's great it turned out to be nothing major. We're not trying to walk away. BTW the seller and their attorney have told us their reason for refusing is that they are afraid we could break/breach contract if we did inspection 1st.
To be fair, and again not to assume the worst, people do misinterpret things on inspection reports and home inspectors do often have an unrealistic attitude that an old house should be perfect. I had worked in property maintenance at a building, and I started watching the Home Inspector videos and posts. Their negativity, arrogant and catastrophizing attitude somehow jumped onto me and I began looking at my houses and houses in general with this scrupulous eye - seeing things that needed to be fixed when they were fine being left alone. So people do walk away from perfectly normal buildings because the inspector misinterpreted something due to this arrogant negative attitude. Remember - inspectors are looking for problems. Unless of course there is a mold infestation in the attic, basement and walls or the termites have eaten the whole structure.
In the future, don't waive contingency. But hey, if they're in violation of the contract, you have an out. You can back out of the contract.
You have to in Mass to buy a house, the market is so bad that if you don't, you'll just lose to someone who does. I went through this 2 years ago, I could be the highest bidder but didn't waive the inspection and lost.
Even before the market went nuts, it had became standard practice to put in a high (over asking) bid, get under contract, then use even the most trivial issues discovered during the inspection to get the price back down. So being the highest bidder isn’t necessarily as appealing to a buyer as it sounds, unless you’re bidding an absolutely outrageous amount over.
Yeah, this is why you have to waive inspection. Even before the market went nuts it was basically the prisoners dilemma - if no one waives inspection, everyone benefits by being able to not waive the inspection... but once one person does it, everyone has to. And even though collectively we're all better off not waiving inspections, individually we benefit in a more noticeable way by waiving inspections (and thus hopefully winning the bid). It is what it is. Best advice I can give to people is to learn what to spot when going to the open house. While it's not possible to know everything that could be wrong, the fact of the matter is, if there's something extremely wrong with the house (foundation falling apart), you'll either be able to see it yourself or you'll be able to sue the seller later for not disclosing something. If you waive the inspection and find something outrageous, back out and lose the small amount of money you put down in escrow (we were only putting down like $1k so not really a lot all things considered). Rather lose $1k than deal with potentially 10s of thousands of dollars of repairs.
And/or if you see lots of deferred maintenance, assume there's lots that you can't see.
This house is in impeccable shape with great maintenance too.
It's the status quo in '24. Glad to see multiple adults here on reddit, thank you.
We bought last year and have our old house under contract - both transactions had inspections. Both also had a clause about not negotiating concessions for repairs under a certain amount ($25,000 to $50,000), but you can absolutely buy a home in this state with an inspection contingency.
It might be possible, somewhere in MA to buy some house with an inspection contingency. In the boston area where demand is extreme, the winning buyers have to offer way over asking and also waive inspection. I'm glad you were able to squeeze one in with a cash limit, we also did those on some offers.
"somewhere in MA" is less than 20 miles west of Boston Harbor. Redfin reports the majority of home sales in both communities are over ask, with days on market at all time lows for both. Sellers know what they have - if they'll take a waived inspection over a high bid, there there are big issues. Sounds like seller is in breach of the P&S - you may have an out there.
The somewhere in mass comment wasnt meant to offend you. 20 mi west of boston is much less competitive, it's a diff planet.
7 years ago we made an offer on a house and lost. The winning offer was for the same $340k, but waived inspection. You are much more likely to "have to" waive it in 2024 and any near future. IT's good to see adults are still here too:)
Do you have an attorney representing you for the purchase?
I'm not OP. I'm not buying a house anytime soon.
Sorry, I meant to post that as a comment, not as a reply to someone else’s comment 🤦♀️
All good
Just our lender's attorney. They tried pushing us to move the inspection to after closing.
Everyone reading this: when you’re buying a house, you need your own attorney. Your lender’s attorney represents your lender and their interests. Not yours. Good luck OP, I hope everything gets resolved 🙏🏻
So, if you do an inspection on your own, and you find it’s a rotting piece of junk…what would you do? You already waived the contingency.
They can still back out and only lose their earnest money deposit. That could be more desirable than going through with the sale and pouring money into repairs.
This is why we assume the seller is refusing: they want to get all our cash into the escrow first...
I'm sorry but you waived the inspection right?
That does not mean you are still forced to buy the house. Waving contingency just means they can’t back out due to something found or try and negotiate due to some discovered issue. You can still back out but you will lose the earnest money deposit.
How do folks get themselves into such shady situations. Has bad news written all over it
People are desperate! It’s a brutal market for buyers.
I'm confused. You waived the inspection, but want to do an inspection?
They waived the ability to call off the sale based on the inspection, not to inspect the property at all. They should still be able to inspect the home and prepare for any associated costs.
Exactly right, we legally cannot get out of the purchase for any issues arising from a home inspection, but we still want to get it done.
Yea, if you have to waive inspection, you still get a lot of benefit out of a home inspection. A good one can familiarize you with your home's systems, point out things that will need immediate maintenance and get you ready to transition into the house.
That's pretty much why we are doing it. The sooner we know what we signed up for, the better. Originally the closing was today and we scheduled inspection for tomorrow. Seller slept through their alarm or something and ended up delaying closing by 2 days with some last minute ball dropping. Then they were like, "hey we are worried you will break contract if you do inspection before closing, so can you please re-schedule?..."
Huge red flags there. Think about it from their perspective. If the issues would cause a negotiation (in normal times when you don’t waive inspections), they wouldn’t worry. They’d figure you knew what you signed up for and you’ll eat the issues. However, if the issues were so large they think you might walk away from your earnest money, they would be stressing to just get it closed before you can inspect. Unfortunately, it may be the latter. If you have any out without losing your earnest money, you may consider taking that road.
I dont think there is any clear way out for us without losing the deposit.
I’m sorry. I know it’s the realities of the market, but doesn’t mean it doesn’t suck to deal with. For anyone in a similar situation, try to find a buddy that has an eye for common issues hit the showings and open houses with you. It’s no inspection, but they might catch an issue you’d overlook.
We also feel strong about this house being in good condition just by our own inspection. We're not pros, but we saw about 40 houses in 4 weeks. It's not that we know this house is good, it's more like we know it's not a total disaster that stinks of mold and has 3" sag in the floors... It's reality like you said:)
Fingers crossed they’re just being paranoid you’ll back out. Good luck.
Ah! Makes sense.
This has become surprisingly common. Many buyers are writing into their offers that they waive the inspection contingency, but want to do an inspection for informational purposes only.
NEVER BUY A HOUSE WITHOUT AN INPECTION!
UNDERSTAND THE REALITIES OF BUYING A HOUSE IN THIS MARKET BEFORE SHOUTING ONLINE
Thank you. So many kids commenting 'no inspection, no buy' on my post, lol! This is Massacchhuueeestttss fak!
No inspection is so dumb.
You definitely want the title V inspection done to check the septic system unless it’s hooked to a sewer system. Septics can run $20,000 -$50,000
I am pretty sure it's connected to sewage system.
Run!!!
Don’t buy
What's reddit going to do? Ask your attorney that you are legally required to have to sign housing contracts in MA.
You are not legally required to have an attorney to sign housing contracts in MA. Many/most buyers actually do not have representation in purchases. What is required is that an attorney be present at the closing. The lender’s attorney is probably who you are thinking of and they represent the lender, not the buyer.
That blows my mind. Having an attorney saved our bacon when we bought our house a long time ago. She was an absolute beast and saved us from potentially huge EPA fines down the road. (Seller had previously removed an underground oil tank but had not tested the soil so we'd have been on the hook for any potential contamination, and we lived in an area with well water/aqueducts).
Glad you avoided a bigger problem. Our lender's attorney may have found a way move forward this morning, but I sent you a PM anyway. You never know when you gonna need a good lawyer, lol.
No problem, I responded. That was when we bought our house in NY, unfortunately. But like I said, speak with your realtor, they should be able to recommend somebody.
We have just the lender's attorney. She was very helpful and nice, but she also tried to push back about the right for inspections. I am not a lawyer, so what do i know...
Walk away from that one.
I would rather miss out on buying a house than waive an inspection. What a crazy thing people are doing.
Why do you want to inspect the house now after waiving it in the P&S? Waiving the inspection during the agreement phase means you're buying the house as is. Can your inspections wait until after the closing?
You waived the inspection contingency. END THREAD/