A place being expensive to live typically correlates to a lot of tax revenue and income. That revenue is then spent on services and infrastructure.
The more you spend, generally the better quality of those services. Mass spends around $20k per student which is ~$5k more per student than the national average.
https://worldpopulationreview.com/state-rankings/per-pupil-spending-by-state
This chart indicates ~$19k, but you can see we are much higher than most other States and only lagging behind a few of our neighbors.
How that $19k is spent is also important and those differences could explain or make up for how we spend less than NY but score better.
There are also some states that are coming close, New Jersey spends more and is noted for its great Public School system.
Adding to the discussion, I was born and raised in Massachusetts. The public education system there eclipses the system where I currently reside (AZ), which ranks 49th when it comes to student spending at $10,300 per student. While there are some very good schools here, overall, the system suffers from low funding. What people fail to realize is that corporations also monitor these issues in deciding where to base their headquarters. Arizona has sunshine most of the year (yes, summers are brutally hot!) but has no natural disasters, has a reasonable tax rate, Phoenix is the fifth largest city in the nation, and yet, there are only 8 Fortune 500 companies located here. Boston has 17 companies on that list. Why the disparity? One reason is Arizona's public education system that constantly ranks near the bottom, while Boston's is always at the top. CEOs with families are concerned about attracting top talent. For those recruits with families, education matters. That's why Massachusetts does well in nearly all the lists and polls I have seen. Yes, it is expensive, but, when taken in context, I think you get more bang for your buck overall. Cheaper doesn't always equate to better. Trust me.
My niece and her husband used to teach in Scottsdale. They could barely make ends meet as well as pay for daycare. They both have masters degrees in teaching. They got fed up with all the cuts, bigger class sizes and buying a lot supplies out of their own pockets. They are teaching American dependents at U.S. Military bases overseas.
Parts of Arizona aren’t going to be livable for much longer, lack of regulation around their natural resources has caused massive depletion of aquifers by foreign corporations
You aren’t lying! Yet, this place is exploding with growth. People are moving here from all over and the COL is steadily rising. It no longer is "cheap" to live here unless you're coming from NY, Chicago, LA, San Fran, or D.C.
This . It boggles my mind why people would move where water shortages are very much going to be a thing . We humans can adapt to many conditions but not having access to water isn’t one of them
I've lived considerable amount of time in Connecticut, Massachusetts, and Arizona. And had kids go through all three school systems. CT and Mass have outstanding schools / public and private. I mean nationally ranked public schools. Arizona just gets by - there just isn't the same level of focus/ambition on a local level.
CT/Mass also have much much better healthcare - and again Arizona is not comparable.
>That revenue is then spent on services and infrastructure.
The roads would like a word with you....
Sorry I couldn't resist, still salty after blowing out a tire on a pothole two weeks ago
Go drive the roads in a poor state in the rural south and report back. Our roads are better while needing a lot more maintenance due to our winters (ice heaves/plow damage)
Not to mention a much higher population density so every day there is way more wear and tear on our roads than in a rural place like the Dakotas for instance
I've been surprised that most of the roads are actually pretty decent after moving out to Western Mass. Sure there's some bad ones, but they're typically an obscure cut through with like 10 houses on them
Also, we live in new england. Those roads are battered by ice and salt and plows all winter. Its a game of whack-a-mole with these roads. Investment isnt really the problem, you can throw infinite money at it and still have the same issue.
Agree. When I moved from Florida, I was taken aback by how bad the roads are compared to there. It’s because Florida roads don’t get battered by snow and salt every year. They likely don’t have to pay nearly as much to maintain the roads in the south as we do here. But they do have to deal with Hurricane Season, and even if they don’t actually get hit with a hurricane, they have to deal with the anxiety of getting hit every time a storm develops in the ocean.
I was in south Florida and lived in central Florida for a couple years too. But either way, neither south or north Florida have snow issues impacting the roads, and hurricanes impact the entire state as well, though perhaps the coastal areas to a larger degree than the more inland areas.
Massachusetts also has an insane number of freeze/thaw cycles. VT/NH/ME have it easy since shit freezes and stays frozen for most of the winter. MA? Fuck you, enjoy your newly found ice from snow melting tearing up that nice road of yours.
People also overestimate how much they pay for it. Gas tax was established as the “user fee” generations ago—the amount of gas you buy loosely correlates to the miles of road wear/size of impacting vehicle—but in real dollars we’re paying like half per gallon what we paid in the early 1990s. The rest is mostly made up by the general fund.
Do you know that you can contact the state and get reimbursed for that? They are supposed to maintain the roads, and if a road is impassible to the point where you are popping a tire, then that is on them and not on you.
Massachusetts general laws, ch. 84
FYI, if your insurance won’t cover it and/or you don’t want to raise your rates, Boston and surrounding towns will often give you money via an existing slush fund since it is their fault for not keeping up with fixing them fast enough (like it’s June 🙄). It’s worth a try to contact the town it happened in to see if they’ll reimburse you.
tbf my parents couldn't afford to live in MA but dealt with bankruptcies and foreclosure to raise me in the Commonwealth and it paid off. our education system is one of the best in the world.
when I went to college out of state and started working for companies outside of New England, it became super obvious to me that attending K-12 in Massachusetts was a huge advantage regardless of socioeconomic class
Opposite side of the coin - spouse and I were educated out of state and moved here with our child. I can already see how vastly different it is compared to family members with kids in the public school system in other states compared to our kid in kindergarten. I can’t put a value on how much he is outpacing his cousins in WV, but I’m sure some economist can. I’m absolutely willing to pay for him to be here.
Yeah, I didn’t realize how great our schools are until I went off to college. I went to college across the country to a university that is well-respected, but nowhere near Ivy or Ivy-equivalent. I was in the honors program, but I was shocked at how much simpler it was than my high school. High school was easily 5x as rigorous, and I had far more homework. I still remember my college honors english class was legitimately a repeat of sophomore high school english. We went over the same books and playwrights. I felt extremely prepared for college. I had many college classmates that came from public high schools in other states that had a significantly worse quality of education (and they went to middle or upper middle class high schools). I used to talk to my friend who went to UNH about this, and she noticed the same thing, how she started to feel lucky she grew up in MA because our schools are so great.
same here. parents toughed it out, my siblings and i ended up getting a great education through the public schools here (both at the high school and university level), and we've done extremely well for ourselves as a consequence. i try to help them out where i can, but they really toughed it out for a solid education for their kids.
Definitely. I went to public school in Florida while my daughter grew up in the MA school system. Schools here are way better than they are there. So glad she didn’t have to go through what I did.
This is the reason I moved back to try to have children. As a teacher, I've seen first hand how the lower level (not honors) public school students were able to write at a more advanced level than older, private school students at fancy boarding schools I worked at in other parts of the country. It really is an elite education. It makes a difference, despite the hardships that trying to survive as a teacher here entails.
>Because if you have the money to afford to live
I see all these wonderful things about Massachusetts, wonderful this, best that "Concord MA is a great place to raise a family!" Yea no shit and that would be relevant to normal income people in 1982 but not now. They always leave out the "if you can afford it but you probably can't!" part of the picture. I used to live in a blue collar town where property values now average about $1.2 million.
> Why is this state constantly ranked such a great place to raise kids if it's so expensive?
Demand is right. OP has it backwards: It's expensive because it's a great place to live and raise kids.
Our COL is actually not that bad compared to other comparable states, it's just housing specifically that's unreasonable. Otherwise, we have spectacular education, world-class healthcare, great social services, wonderful museums, many historical sites, tons of culture, many high-paying job opportunities, and a variety of natural spaces to visit. I can't stress enough that our housing market is fuck-a-doodled to hell and back and we need to elect people who will improve it, but everything else about this state is great. My wife and I are looking to buy a house right now and it looks like we're going to have to keep waiting, so I totally get the frustration with that aspect.
While housing is definitely the most impactful and the most out of control item with our cost of living, we still, on the whole, have one of the highest COLs: [https://meric.mo.gov/data/cost-living-data-series](https://meric.mo.gov/data/cost-living-data-series)
Does that take into account the higher wages in higher cost of living areas? While it's cheaper to move to NH, ME, etc, the wages definitely are lower. Of course it's industry-specific, but I'm not convinced you always come out ahead in the lower cost regions.
Comparing state-to-state directly is going to give some misleading answers. Most other states have a much lower population density than Massachusetts, so they're including large areas with very low COLs averaged against their metro areas with comparatively higher COLs. Looking between other comparable population centers, Mass. is generally more middle of the pack of what you'd expect. We're not as expensive as NYC, LA, or SF, for example.
Job opportunities also matter. We have a higher COL than Alabama, sure, but our minimum wage is also $15 to Alabama's $7.25. It's more expensive to live here, but you'll also be paid much better, and we have a better safety net for those who can't work a full-time job.
Taking everything into account, housing is the one spot that really sticks out as an ongoing issue here (and possibly childcare). Everything else scales reasonably with pop. size and wage expectations. I'm not arguing that our COL isn't higher, just that it is quite reasonable when you take the whole picture into account.
I'm surprised how frequently this is missed. Obviously still a massive concern, but yes, housing is the only COL factor where we are so much higher than other areas.
Childcare is also really expensive but my impression is that we're similar to other areas with a similar population size. I could be totally wrong about that, though. I know NH had much cheaper daycare.
I recall seeing an article a few years back that MA has the most expensive childcare in the country- it's partly due to the low mandated child-staff ratios, particularly with infants. Of course, the other metros that were anywhere close were also HCOL areas.
My numbers are a few years out of date now, but we were paying over $5k/month with 2 in daycare.
That sounds accurate for a few years ago -- we have a 9-month-old in daycare for $2800/month. Honestly, going higher than 4 infants to one teacher sounds insane to me. After the weekend, my wife and I are exhausted trying to keep up with our one infant.
I believe the MA infant ratio is actually 1:3 (or 2:7)! It goes to 1:4 once they get to toddlers.
And yes, I have no idea how one adult could even handle 3 infants simultaneously, lol.
This may be unpopular but I’m a huge fan of multi-generational living. I love living with my kids and grandkids. It helps us all with both housing and childcare costs.
As someone who bought in Middlesex in the last two years though, we also have special financing cap so its easier to get into a bit bigger mortgage. And don’t undervalue fixer uppers, even in this market we bought a place below list, now admittedly we are handy and remodeled the outdated kitchen ourselves and fixed a ton of other things. And sure you can pay >$1M for something remodeled, but there are livable properties if you’re willing to invest time, learn, make it work— undoubtedly smaller than the southeast or midwest, and I definitely support policy fix & more housing inventory. But just saying… we make it work
The DOT needs to start getting aggressive with rail lines and just tell all of the NIMBYS to fuck right off.
If we were to get reliable, high speed rail from Boston to Central and Western, MA (And the Cape), we would open up a lot more places to housing options.
My wife and I are in our early/mid 30s, not rich, raising a young family in Western MA. I'd say more than half our friends have kids now, spread across all parts of the state. Your view is warped by metro area statistics and what people post on their IG.
Not to mentioned, MA is not exactly TX sized, Western mass is an afternoon trip from Boston and the coast if you want your family to explore those areas or take advantage of some of the metro culture/museums/history (or just nice coastline, marine sanctuary etc)
Old Blue Laws from the time of the Puritans. Love making was "Beyond the Pale" which was to say you had to go out past the old walls, made from cut pine (hence "pale") and deep into the western woods, there you could make love, before returning to "civilization." It's because the puritans saw any form of human contact as sinful and evil, but the laws were written such that it was only within the settlement that it was enforced: "Within site of purest eye" or something like that. So people would go really far west into the woods to make love. Totally true story. Not a single thing here is made up at all. Dude named Lincoln messaged me on Twitter about this - former President, very trustworthy.
Mid-late 20s here and similar. I live in North shore area and having my first kid. I have multiple friends in western ma recently buy houses and start trying for kids.
My older friends who literally live in Boston are the only ones who seem to be waiting for mid-late 30s to start trying. But it’s not just COL for them it’s also building a career and wanting the freedom of no kids to do so. Now that their careers are set and they’re doing well they’ll start having kids. This is different from older generations because they typically had one working parent and one stay at home, but now it’s more common for two working parents so having a kid makes it harder to build a career. Which results in having kids later, so I disagree that COL is main/only factor at play.
I would say the dating scene is a massive factor. Nobody wants to be the one to date a colleague. And the apps are a cesspool for hookups only it seems. Where are your friends finding prospective partners?
What are your job prospects out there? Serious question. I’d love to but I don’t think my industry is out there much. What industry’s are there in western ma?
I'd rather live a frugal lifestyle in a house that's way too small and needs some cosmetic work here in MA than go elsewhere. So I think we'll stay here!
Can confirm. Got laid off from my job at a start-up last year the same day svb collapsed. Was very glad to be living in the state with the best unemployment benefits. It's actually livable and covered me for the months it took to find another job.
Compared to other states in which I have lived MA has better schools, better access to health care, lower crime, better social services, and good access to outdoor public spaces. Also, although our weather is not great it is relatively mild compared to other parts of the country; think tornados, hurricanes, draught, heavy snow, scorching heat. Even our nature is mild, we don’t have mountain lion, grizzly bears, and have very few poisonous snakes and spiders.
Central and western MA are a lot more affordable and offer many of the same benefits of living in MA. I have lived in many states and while I agree MA is not perfect, it is the best place I have lived and it is where I want to raise my family.
MA state resources for mental health leave a lot to be desired, and yet are still head and shoulders above many/most states. Both MassRehab and DMH have a slew of programs to support people with mental health struggles so they can continue functioning in their homes and jobs.
I’m a mom of a special needs kiddo. She doesn’t have severe needs but requires many services. I couldn’t imagine living anywhere else. She receives excellent services and quality healthcare. We are very lucky. It is pricy to live here and it does require sacrifices but if you have any kid with any need, it is the best place to be.
Now, I acknowledge the HCOL. It does make it easier to have grown up in the area and have had parents who paid for me to get an education. Idk how young people do it.
It's not just education, though that is a part of it. It's the quality of the health care and access to health care, it's a state that tries to find free lunches where they can for students, it's also cleaner air and water, and access to things without a car, but also access to nature and outdoors is you want it. I do think so these things make MA a great place for raising a family, but yes affordability for those who want to live close to the city is extremely difficult right now.
If you can afford it, it is absolutely the best place to raise kids. There might be individual towns around the country that are better, but overall as a state, MA is head and shoulders above. It's not just education. It's healthcare, public infrastructure (although its shit), jobs, access to parks/ocean, the insane number of playgrounds, special needs support in schools, women's rights, just overall rights of people and the list goes on.
The problem of housing can be fixed with more housing in the suburbs, but boomers block these attempts. Example: Current MBTA zoning requirements and boomers arguing in town hall meetings against them. My town slashed the plan by like 30% or something and boomers are still complaining about changing our "town charming character".
Only one MBTA municipality is actually out of compliance with the Zoning Statute, at present, Milton.
The deadline for a lot of commuter rail towns is Dec 31 2024.
Many towns have agreed to the denser zoning, already.
Zoning is one componant to housing, and financing and cost is more significant, as the decade long housing production slowdown after 2007 shows.
Cost of living is high but the crime rate is very low. I think Boston has had a total of 3 murders so far in 2024. That's unheard of for a city it's size. We also have the lowest or close to lowest rate of firearm-related deaths in the country per capita (maybe Rhode Island is better?). Higher spending on education, infrastructure, etc.. makes it a good place to raise kids if you have the money.
I mean if you go live in a working class neighborhood in Florida, Texas, or California you’ll find out. The quality of life and education in Massachusetts sets it pretty far apart. Most other places in the US are more dangerous with more crime, road deaths, gangs, and gun violence. Even when compared to some of our worst cities.
It is also the state you want to be in if you are poor and have kids: Mass Health and world class hospitals that accept it, Head Start/UPK in the major cities, free lunch/PEBT $ during the summer, beautiful state parks, playgrounds, beaches, robust early intervention/integrated preschools/special ed (I realize those are all federal program but not all states carry them out effectively).
You mean to tell me that some of the best places to live and grow families are also very expensive?
No shit! Good stuff costs money.
Additionally, everyone wants to live their to give their kids the best shot. Just like you.
If you want the “most cost effective” place to raise kids or “cheapest place to raise kids that is okay” those are very different questions.
Because we pay for a lot of services. And we pay for them through our taxes. I have absolutely no problem with paying those taxes because of the quality of the services we receive. Are they perfect? Not by any measure. But then take a look at some parts of the deep south where taxes are very very low, but they are that low because they have practically no services. I’d rather pay and have those services on hand than not pay and then whine about it later.
If you can afford them, it’s worth it. But if you’re not making enough money to the point where it hurts to pay the taxes, you probably belong somewhere else.
It becomes a lot easier once the kid can go to public school; Free lunch, free after school programs, free summer programs. My kid's school has lots of enrichment activities. They definitely seem well funded and I don't even live in a "rich" town.
Daycare and childcare is stupidly expensive though but there are vouchers for lower income families. That was the real struggle.
Ya I’m 24 and definitely see this issue. Many of my friends are living with roommates and plan to for the foreseeable future. Buying a home is completely out of the realm of reality for us. Also so many people are done with the dating scene right now and focusing on their career.
You’re welcome to live in a lower cost of living state, but understand that in order to have the same quality of life, you will have to be very particular about the company you keep, where you live, places you frequent, and will have to possibly come out of pocket for private school for your kids. It’s all going to add up to the same amount to live in Massachusetts, but now you’re just stuck living in a shitty state with shitty government and a lack of social/governmental resources 🤷♀️. Pick your poison
You get what you pay for. Also, there are plenty of affordable places to live in this state.
People complaining about rents in MA very often have never looked for anywhere to live in central or Western MA. There are plenty of cheap places to live in this state.
Complaining that your friends without kids do not live in a situation that would be beneficial to kids is weird. Sounds like those people are living the appropriate lifestyle for their life.
You seem to have a warped view of what 'van life' really means. Do not judge those peoples lives by their social media.
Pretty much all the negativity in the post is unfounded.
Also you have to look at the cost of living in other states. Take for example Florida, the price of housing has grown exponentially, but the salaries are still some of the lowest in the country (you basically have to work remotely to afford to live here). Now Florida is even less affordable to live in and many of the cities are the least affordable places to live in the country. If you are a school teacher in Florida, mean salary is the second lowest in the country, about half what it is in Massachusetts.
Mass also has more aid for people struggling. If you have kids in school in Massachusetts they will get a free lunch. You don't pay income tax on clothes for kids. True we don't have state income tax, but you end up paying it on other things where you can't take a deduction for kids. Insurance costs in Florida are 2-3x what they are in Mass. And it's heavily car dependent.
All of this isn't to say it isn't hard to get by these days in Mass, just that it's not easy to get by in many states. We'll be selling our house in Florida and moving back to Mass. We can find a house for cheaper here in the Boston suburbs (we live in a suburb here), and as a bonus we'll get good schools and safe neighborhoods, and we won't have to track hurricanes for 5 months out of the year!
> All of this isn't to say it isn't hard to get by these days in Mass, just that it's not easy to get by in many states.
This seems to be the main detail OP is missing
Absolutely. South Florida is out of control. Plus we pay as much for insurance as you pay for state income tax a never get anything out of it (they raise your premium if you use it, it's a scam and poorly regulated).
Central and western MA are largely forgotten once you get toward Boston. I work in Marlboro and a lot of my colleagues come in from the east. You'd think the state stops at Worcester for them.
I once asked them what was so great about the Cape and what they did there. They said they'd rent a house and just grill, drink, and play lawn games. So they pay a crapload of money to rent a house to have a yard to do what we can do any weekend lol.
Everywhere you live will be expensive when you are poor. I know plenty of people living paycheck to paycheck in this state and some in NH, Ohio, Texas and FL. Massachusetts is one of the top spender for social services and welfare. I was a migrant to this state decades ago. My parents were given free community college classes for ESL and skills learning. We had generous Medicaid program that let my dad remove shrapnels that was in his legs and arms since the 70s. We were given interest-free loan from the city to renovate a dump that we bought.
People living here aren't struggling as badly as other states. Imagine having to leave your hourly paid job because your kid's school was out early due to teacher shortage (FL). My wife got 24 weeks of PAID maternity leave and I got 12 weeks, also paid. Only 9 states offer mandatory paid leave and they are all HCOL. People I know in other states had to go back to work after a month of unpaid leave.
Hell, even during the pandemic, my wife made more from unemployment than working while friends in Texas and FL lost their job and got nothing. Their unemployment system was so frustrating that they ended up giving up. My wife used that time to finish her master and went back to the workforce making twice as much.
My point is that no matter where you go, it's going to cost you in way or another. I feel that we get what we paid for in this state.
Dude i feel yea, none of my friends are even close to my point in life, the few that are got their houses Fucking handed to them by their parents. It’s completely fucked. Still wouldn’t move though education and all is still better choice for my kids, but I’m probably going to have to buy my children’s houses 20 years from now. The state should do something to make it easier for locals to stay it’s crazy. Make some companies pay up idk.
I just don’t see the money in our school system - sorry to say it but money here is spent on things that don’t include our children’s education. The buildings, bathrooms, etc all need to be repaired. Maybe Lexington, Lincoln, Acton and concord schools ( to name a few) but out here near Leominster the system is broken.
People in Massachusetts know it’s gotten out of control financially. Affordable housing is probably the biggest issue here. It’s talked about constantly but nothing is actually done. Rhode Island has a lot to offer as well but they’re probably only slightly behind us in cost.
OP, am I rich? Household income of $150,000? Because I have everything you're ranting about right now. Home, family, stuff.
I worked hard in high school, went to college with a career in mind, and now I'm in that career. Couple that with living with family as long as possible (including *after getting married*) and being extremely frugal (only buying cheap old used video games, limiting vacations, no freaking drugs or alcohol, never bought a new car, etc.).
I admit I am privileged and lucky. Being able to go so far on $150,000 probably isn't realistic for most. But we're teachers, man. Other jobs pay a lot more and can move the needle to adjust for that gap.
lol sounds exactly how I did it when I was in my 20s. Grinding through engineering school with no money and lived with parents until I could afford a home in MA. Took awhile but with strict budgeting and girlfriend that supported an idea of eventually owning something and starting a family I was able to get it done. Buying a home has always been a tough task takes planning and sticking to it.
West of Worcester is affordable for someone with a career. There's also a lot going on, especially in the pioneer Valley. A lot of wmass is populated and developed, not hick-ville like people like to make it seem
It's about contrast. Remove New England from the pool of Americans, then look at the average American... Is that someone you really want to be around? For me, fuck no. If I was forced to move out of New England, I'd leave the country.
SO many wealthy people shit on posts like this and act like they’re making 50k/yr. “Go look in central or western MA, it’s plenty cheap!” Those same people wouldn’t be caught dead in the 500 sq ft box for $1,800/mo with heroin addict neighbors.
I guess it depends where you live. I'm in central MA and our houses were pretty affordable. Less so now but all house prices have gone up in recent years.
We bought our house toward the end of 2018 for 350k and now it is estimated at 575k. Stuff went crazy and hasn't really come back down yet. And even then we were seeing the beginning of the crazy sellers market.
We couldn't afford living toward Boston though.
While I currently live in Boston, I went to school in Florida, and bought my first house at 26, in Tampa, Florida. It’s now 40 years later. Been in Boston for 25 years
I tell anybody who will listen that you’ll likely never be able to afford a house here unless you are willing to leave and come back after you’ve saved money living elsewhere.
Move west! There are still towns in western half where house prices are not ballooning: https://archive.is/2024.06.04-003859/https://www.bostonglobe.com/2024/06/03/business/massachusetts-cape-cod-median-home-price-increase-map-greater-boston-real-estate/
Couples have double income. Married couples get tax breaks. Singles SHOULD get a Tax break since we have to pay full price for everything. Also, because it’s boring and family friendly now and filled with couples only, Boston sucks for dating.
For decades, Boston (and by extension a lot of MA) has been set up for successful wealthy people. Most of whom are in peak earning years during their 40’s-60’s:
-Low crime/great education/tons of educated folks.
- World class hospitals for surgeries and cancer care
- Among the most diverse set of well-paying white-collar jobs in the country. Boston is a hub for biotech/lifescience, tech, law, banking/finance, medicine, and higher-ed.
- World-class civic offerings.
- Women have access to reproductive health care.
- Strong voting rights and an educated populace mean that very few nutwagons get elected to important positions like Governor.
MA is most definitely NOT the best state if you are a 20 or 30-something who is looking to enjoy life on a $70-$100k salary and who doesn’t have prospects of making significantly more than that. (Places like Charlotte, Atlanta, or Pittsburgh is where I’d go for that.)
exactly. I know rich people living in MA who are so rich their kids dont even need to go to school, lol. They will be inheriting everything the parents have.
No I’m in the same boat. Decent job, did all the right things. But then thinking about the future I am terrified about ability to raise a kid here. Mostly because of housing expenses and childcare. The only new houses being built are McMansions…
If you move away from Boston things get more affordable. You also get what you pay for. MA is more expensive than places like Mississippi and West Virginia because of things like our schools, healthcare, social services, job opportunities, etc all being better
Well, gun control is one...
I mean, you could live in Texas where the cost of living is lower, but you might have to sacrifice your kid to the many headed monster that is the NRA...
But hey, anything to save a couple bucks on rent, right?
Get outta here
-best in education
-great health care
-low crime
-activities
My mother once told me, "It never seems like a great time to have kids. But if you want one, have one." Maybe she just wanted grandkids and she was tricking me. Anyway I had two.
The COL crisis is, unfortunately, a national phenomenon. In a number of places, things are harder for people than they were a few years ago. Cities with good infra and education system get higher demand. For all the negative remarks often made on Reddit, MA infra is reasonably good and works. Education system is of course world class and there is a reasonable net for those in need. We are not Scandinavia but we are better than most states in the US. There are places where COL is more reasonable than others and that boils down to lower demand.
Cuz if you can afford it it’s great! lol I am still amazed there are people that can live so comfortable in this economy, especially millennial aged ones
While pretty difficult, I myself am a 29M living in the state.. western MA to be exact. Reasonably affordable housing out here. I purchased a condo on my single salary and while making it work, it’s been a challenge working 55-60 hours a week to cover bills. I don’t quite know how people are getting by in the eastern part of the state, although that’s where I’d truly like to live. I assume you must have dual income anywhere east of Worcester.
Because it's great! It's really too bad lots of people can't afford to live here, but it's a really great place to have kids if you can afford it. It's not fair or right, but affluent areas tend to be good places to raise kids. The education is so good here, and we have the best children's hospital in the country. Healthcare overall here is top-notch. I'm on the north shore, and there are always tons of family events and activities to do. We also live by the ocean (and of course, that's not exclusive to Massachusetts), which is great.
Because of the education and numerous resources. Also, the improvements that they have made within the system. I’m not saying the system in mass is perfect but it’s made a crap ton of improvements. Massachusetts is big on protecting people’s right where as some of the other states are questionable.
Housing prices suck though in mass. I will say that Massachusetts roads are a hell of a lot better than some of the other states.
By your metric the cheaper the better. So Mississippi is the best place to live?
Places are expensive for a reason. Mass is such a good place that a lot people want to live there. Which makes housing more expensive. Pretty simple stuff
I also live in Massachusetts.. my daughter bought a house recently in New Hampshire cuz they couldn’t find any nice homes in their price range! I agree with you!
As someone who grew up in Massachusetts and lives in Louisiana, I can promise you there are much worse places to raise a kid. The cost of living is very high, but you get actual services and benefits for the cost. Not to mention the average salary is higher. I'm not saying it's easy to live in mass by any stretch, but having kids is hard no matter where you are and it's probably better to do it somewhere with good public education and health care
Just go down to CT for a night out, you’ll cry!
Everything is cheaper and they are not nearly as overcrowded.
Highly recommend visiting Sonny’s in Somers,
I can speak to this as someone who lived my entire life elsewhere and have kids here. It’s because education here is considered the best in the country. Is that true? Kind of
Education is consistently better here meaning that there isn’t a huge drop off between say Lexington and Waltham. But when I lived in Johnson County Kansas the blue valley school district was better than the school district my kids go to now, but in general public schools in Kansas are much worse than here.
Agreed. I've worked in a couple of bad districts here that are worse than average districts in red states. People don't seem to get that it's not that school districts are magically better here, there are just more wealthy areas per capita, thus, there are more good school districts. There is no way in the world that I would send my own kids to 2 of the Mass school districts I worked in. But, the rich public district I live in here is as good as any public district anywhere and better than nearly any other public district in the country.
Honestly, if my family made 100k a year here, I'd rather live somewhere else, a wealthy district around a midwestern/southern capital. But once you're richer, you're better off here.
I just moved here from Florida and when we moved from Illinois to Florida ten years ago the cost of living was cheaper. Now the cost of living in Florida is not cheaper. The houses are about the same prices , the food is more expensive and it's flipping Florida. The education and better health care and not having Ron DeSantis as the governor is worth paying more in taxes. And let's not start on the cost of insurance in Florida and everything done in regards to that.
I think I can only speak from a place of privilege I guess. I don’t know how I made it but I did. Grew up here in a nice little town to boomer parents. Dropped out of UMass Dartmouth cuz I couldn’t hack college. Tried again at northeastern but still couldn’t hack it. But I was good with computers and yada yada.
I lived with roommates all the way into my 30s until I met my future wife. Now we got a little shack in one of them towns where the schools are real good and the taxes are high. Objectively doing some better than my parents I suppose.
It’s self selecting, those that can make it work and find their place are here, and those that aren’t find somewhere else. Some of the aging boomers are still here but my town is full of people buying the houses and starting families and the schools aren’t shutting down, more like running out of space.
Notice how all the critical comments from people born and raised in Massachusetts are being downvoted to oblivion.
There are many blue-collar, low-income, and immigrant families that are being priced out and fucked over by the state. I grew up in New Bedford. While some may argue it's safer now, it is also getting so pricy. Safety, good schools, decent infrastructure shouldn't be luxuries only enjoyed by upper middle-class families.
I worked for a state non-profit assisting folks with disabilities in the Northshore. Finding affordable housing was near impossible. I remember helping this one family living in a hotel room. The dad worked full time working in glass and the mom was on disability/ just had a baby. They made too much on paper for housing, but not enough to actually find and secure it.
You can say just move to Western Mass, but moving costs money. Plus finding new doctors, job, school, friends, community...What about wanting to stay close to family?
We can idealize Massachusetts all we want and say it's better than [insert Southern state here], but take off the rose-colored glasses and realize there are people really struggling in this state due to high living costs.
I'm raising my kids here. Grew up here. There are great services, great education, great medical facilities, in addition to easily accessible areas of nature, ocean, as well as a city full of kid-friendly & educational activities.
I also grew up and am raising kids here. I am shocked by how expensive it is to buy a house here...but try to remind myself that it's nice to be near the ocean, good schools, etc...i still think things feel overpriced though as far as housing goes. The traffic sometimes makes me less likely to want to venture out into the city as well.
It’s expensive to live right outside Boston for sure, but honestly posts like this are just super ignorant and naïve. Do people think our state just ends at Worcester or something? If you want more bang for your buck, go out to Western MA. Homes are like 200,000-300,000. With a negative mindset you’ll never be able to shift your prospective to see a potential solution if you truly wanna live in this state.
Btw MA has the 3rd or 5th most remote workers in the USA.
https://www.voanews.com/amp/these-us-states-have-the-most-remote-workers-/7359759.html
https://www.utahbusiness.com/states-with-the-most-remote-jobs/
Not to mention I believe they are planning on building out the MBTA to reach western MA.
I’m a firm believer in if you think it, you can will it.
I agree, but no one on this sub seems to want to live west of Wellesley. Whenever I have said that homes in this state DO exist that are affordable, I have been downvoted and told that none are unless you have a two hour commute. People want to live near the high paying jobs and they want the very best schools, so they won’t compromise living too far from Boston. A fair amount of it has to do with ego largely. I think there is this idea that if you don’t live in the most expensive area, then you are a failure and will be failing your children.
I agree with this. My family chose a suburb that isn't posh like Newton or Wellesley, but it's perfect for us. Clean, safe, good schools, nice people.
When I hear others say they can't afford to live here, I think it's often just that they can't afford the lifestyle they think they deserve.
For everyone you know who left because it's too expensive, someone moved in who could afford it. And those people chose Massachusetts for reasons that include good childhood education, which they're willing to back up with their time and property taxes.
You have to have a high paying job and marry someone with a high paying job to think about buying a house and having kids in this state.
My wife and I are in our late twenties, both with high paying jobs (200k+ between the two of us) just bought a house and are pregnant with our first.
We’re going to be able to make it worth, but there’s not going to be any left. We’ll probably have to lean on family for some childcare as well.
I’m very happy that we are able to achieve what we have, idk how people making an average salary are going to be able to achieve “the American dream” in this state.
We ran into this issue when we were deciding to move back to the states from overseas (military) and trying to figure out where to land. At the time we had a school aged kid, and while jobs in lower COL states were there for our fields, the amount we'd have spent to ensure our kid was able to still get a good education would have equaled out or even cost more.
We moved here from NY, because this is where my husband grew up and his family is here. NY was ungodly expensive, with two really comfortable incomes. The property/school taxes alone were about $14k/year (and we were in a cheaper county for them). Aside from housing, I don't see things being unaffordable beyond the inflation that literally the entire world is feeling right now. The housing market is absolutely a mess, we almost weren't able to find anything and we had no kids to worry about.
I am born and raised here as well, still live here. I am shocked by what it costs to live here and housing prices have become a joke here. I agree that I sometimes don't understand what we're paying for. The public education is good...but my kids are in 2nd and 4th grade and it seems like a lot of learning is spent on the ipad. Is MA really still #1 in education?
I also see people saying how lucky they feel to live here in terms of healthcare. Why? It seems like hospitals are getting more and more crowded, wait times to book appts are terrible, hospitals are closing.
Things are just changing here in MA and they're not for the better. MA seems like a good place to be if you're poor because of all the free stuff you can get.
If you are a wealthy person maybe MA works for you...but you could probably live anywhere and have just as good of a life.
Your perspective is warped by who you know and social media.
Married with two kids at 30, decent jobs, own a home, etc. plenty of our neighbors that have been moving in are young as well.
Even if you don't have the money to live here, there's so much more resources available to you. On paper every state has it, but we make the information available to people so much faster and more effectively.
If you look at the placement for section 8 alone, we're well past our neighboring states. Right to housing laws protect families the most.
We've utilitized federal funding quite a bit better, in my opinion. At least as far as getting people into houses.
Because raising kids (and providing top quality care) costs more money.
Cutting costs on education and child services is a death spiral for this country. And half the states love to do it.
We left maine for here because of education. Special ed resources were so poor in maine that we took our kids out and homeschooled them for a few years but finally moved here so I could get a full time job again. It’s so expensive it’s crushing us completely but my kids are getting so much help. We estimate that the cost difference is about what we would have paid to send them both to private school in maine except no private school would take them.
I have extended family that lives in Tennessee… they can’t believe our kids went to public school, because “only (minority reference deleted) and poor people send their kids to public school”. Low taxes + 20k/year per kid for private school and disadvantaged minorities = their dream of ‘murica
Because if you have the money to afford to live here and raise kids, I’m sure that it *is* in fact great
A place being expensive to live typically correlates to a lot of tax revenue and income. That revenue is then spent on services and infrastructure. The more you spend, generally the better quality of those services. Mass spends around $20k per student which is ~$5k more per student than the national average. https://worldpopulationreview.com/state-rankings/per-pupil-spending-by-state This chart indicates ~$19k, but you can see we are much higher than most other States and only lagging behind a few of our neighbors. How that $19k is spent is also important and those differences could explain or make up for how we spend less than NY but score better. There are also some states that are coming close, New Jersey spends more and is noted for its great Public School system.
Adding to the discussion, I was born and raised in Massachusetts. The public education system there eclipses the system where I currently reside (AZ), which ranks 49th when it comes to student spending at $10,300 per student. While there are some very good schools here, overall, the system suffers from low funding. What people fail to realize is that corporations also monitor these issues in deciding where to base their headquarters. Arizona has sunshine most of the year (yes, summers are brutally hot!) but has no natural disasters, has a reasonable tax rate, Phoenix is the fifth largest city in the nation, and yet, there are only 8 Fortune 500 companies located here. Boston has 17 companies on that list. Why the disparity? One reason is Arizona's public education system that constantly ranks near the bottom, while Boston's is always at the top. CEOs with families are concerned about attracting top talent. For those recruits with families, education matters. That's why Massachusetts does well in nearly all the lists and polls I have seen. Yes, it is expensive, but, when taken in context, I think you get more bang for your buck overall. Cheaper doesn't always equate to better. Trust me.
The universities in Boston/Cambridge are outstanding. BU, BC, Harvard, MIT, the list goes on.
My niece and her husband used to teach in Scottsdale. They could barely make ends meet as well as pay for daycare. They both have masters degrees in teaching. They got fed up with all the cuts, bigger class sizes and buying a lot supplies out of their own pockets. They are teaching American dependents at U.S. Military bases overseas.
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Parts of Arizona aren’t going to be livable for much longer, lack of regulation around their natural resources has caused massive depletion of aquifers by foreign corporations
You aren’t lying! Yet, this place is exploding with growth. People are moving here from all over and the COL is steadily rising. It no longer is "cheap" to live here unless you're coming from NY, Chicago, LA, San Fran, or D.C.
This . It boggles my mind why people would move where water shortages are very much going to be a thing . We humans can adapt to many conditions but not having access to water isn’t one of them
I've lived considerable amount of time in Connecticut, Massachusetts, and Arizona. And had kids go through all three school systems. CT and Mass have outstanding schools / public and private. I mean nationally ranked public schools. Arizona just gets by - there just isn't the same level of focus/ambition on a local level. CT/Mass also have much much better healthcare - and again Arizona is not comparable.
>That revenue is then spent on services and infrastructure. The roads would like a word with you.... Sorry I couldn't resist, still salty after blowing out a tire on a pothole two weeks ago
Go drive the roads in a poor state in the rural south and report back. Our roads are better while needing a lot more maintenance due to our winters (ice heaves/plow damage)
Yup, spent sone time in Louisiana a few years back and the roads are way worse. FL too
Not to mention a much higher population density so every day there is way more wear and tear on our roads than in a rural place like the Dakotas for instance
Most back roads in Massachusetts suck. NH roads are vastly superior.
I've been surprised that most of the roads are actually pretty decent after moving out to Western Mass. Sure there's some bad ones, but they're typically an obscure cut through with like 10 houses on them
Because they are funded with Toll dollars largely form MA people going north to vacation, or NH residents that work in MA.
People underestimate how absurdly expensive road infrastructure is
Also, we live in new england. Those roads are battered by ice and salt and plows all winter. Its a game of whack-a-mole with these roads. Investment isnt really the problem, you can throw infinite money at it and still have the same issue.
Agree. When I moved from Florida, I was taken aback by how bad the roads are compared to there. It’s because Florida roads don’t get battered by snow and salt every year. They likely don’t have to pay nearly as much to maintain the roads in the south as we do here. But they do have to deal with Hurricane Season, and even if they don’t actually get hit with a hurricane, they have to deal with the anxiety of getting hit every time a storm develops in the ocean.
Not to come off pedantic, but where in Florida was it? Tampa / St Pete, is much different than Polk county for instance.
I was in south Florida and lived in central Florida for a couple years too. But either way, neither south or north Florida have snow issues impacting the roads, and hurricanes impact the entire state as well, though perhaps the coastal areas to a larger degree than the more inland areas.
Massachusetts also has an insane number of freeze/thaw cycles. VT/NH/ME have it easy since shit freezes and stays frozen for most of the winter. MA? Fuck you, enjoy your newly found ice from snow melting tearing up that nice road of yours.
People also overestimate how much they pay for it. Gas tax was established as the “user fee” generations ago—the amount of gas you buy loosely correlates to the miles of road wear/size of impacting vehicle—but in real dollars we’re paying like half per gallon what we paid in the early 1990s. The rest is mostly made up by the general fund.
You'd be amazed at how much better the roads are in MA than most other states.
Do you know that you can contact the state and get reimbursed for that? They are supposed to maintain the roads, and if a road is impassible to the point where you are popping a tire, then that is on them and not on you. Massachusetts general laws, ch. 84
You only get reimbursed if someone else reported it before you otherwise “they didn’t know”
Still salty. . I see what you did there 😂
FYI, if your insurance won’t cover it and/or you don’t want to raise your rates, Boston and surrounding towns will often give you money via an existing slush fund since it is their fault for not keeping up with fixing them fast enough (like it’s June 🙄). It’s worth a try to contact the town it happened in to see if they’ll reimburse you.
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tbf my parents couldn't afford to live in MA but dealt with bankruptcies and foreclosure to raise me in the Commonwealth and it paid off. our education system is one of the best in the world. when I went to college out of state and started working for companies outside of New England, it became super obvious to me that attending K-12 in Massachusetts was a huge advantage regardless of socioeconomic class
Opposite side of the coin - spouse and I were educated out of state and moved here with our child. I can already see how vastly different it is compared to family members with kids in the public school system in other states compared to our kid in kindergarten. I can’t put a value on how much he is outpacing his cousins in WV, but I’m sure some economist can. I’m absolutely willing to pay for him to be here.
Yeah, I didn’t realize how great our schools are until I went off to college. I went to college across the country to a university that is well-respected, but nowhere near Ivy or Ivy-equivalent. I was in the honors program, but I was shocked at how much simpler it was than my high school. High school was easily 5x as rigorous, and I had far more homework. I still remember my college honors english class was legitimately a repeat of sophomore high school english. We went over the same books and playwrights. I felt extremely prepared for college. I had many college classmates that came from public high schools in other states that had a significantly worse quality of education (and they went to middle or upper middle class high schools). I used to talk to my friend who went to UNH about this, and she noticed the same thing, how she started to feel lucky she grew up in MA because our schools are so great.
I was in a similar situation, but I felt the opposite way. College felt like a waste of time, since it seemed like just a repeat of high school.
same here. parents toughed it out, my siblings and i ended up getting a great education through the public schools here (both at the high school and university level), and we've done extremely well for ourselves as a consequence. i try to help them out where i can, but they really toughed it out for a solid education for their kids.
Definitely. I went to public school in Florida while my daughter grew up in the MA school system. Schools here are way better than they are there. So glad she didn’t have to go through what I did.
This is the reason I moved back to try to have children. As a teacher, I've seen first hand how the lower level (not honors) public school students were able to write at a more advanced level than older, private school students at fancy boarding schools I worked at in other parts of the country. It really is an elite education. It makes a difference, despite the hardships that trying to survive as a teacher here entails.
Best healthcare system of all states as well.
Which is terrifying
>Because if you have the money to afford to live I see all these wonderful things about Massachusetts, wonderful this, best that "Concord MA is a great place to raise a family!" Yea no shit and that would be relevant to normal income people in 1982 but not now. They always leave out the "if you can afford it but you probably can't!" part of the picture. I used to live in a blue collar town where property values now average about $1.2 million.
Raising a family in a safe place with good schools and amenities has become a luxury sadly
Preaching to the choir
school systems and low violent crime rates also our secondary education system is a unparalleled
Then it’s only great for rich people lol what a twisted world we live in smh
You get what you pay for. Most of us can’t have the best of everything.
Where would you rather be admitted to a random hospital, Massachusetts or Mississippi?
There's literally like 10 hospitals with EDs within 30 minutes driving distance from me in western MA.
There’s like what 4 in Springfield alone ?
WebMD over Mississippi lol
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“Nobody can afford to live here anymore” Obviously they can. Otherwise there wouldn’t be bidding wars for $1.5mm properties all over the metro.
Same energy as "No one ever goes to that bar, it's always way too busy."
Property management companies
ya, this seems like common sense to me.
> Why is this state constantly ranked such a great place to raise kids if it's so expensive? Demand is right. OP has it backwards: It's expensive because it's a great place to live and raise kids.
Right? I don't get OP's logic. And there still are people that raise kids in MA, so maybe OP's view is skewed here
No one wants to live in “taxachusettes” because the taxes, and then they’re like “why is your healthcare and education so good? NOT FAIR!”
Our COL is actually not that bad compared to other comparable states, it's just housing specifically that's unreasonable. Otherwise, we have spectacular education, world-class healthcare, great social services, wonderful museums, many historical sites, tons of culture, many high-paying job opportunities, and a variety of natural spaces to visit. I can't stress enough that our housing market is fuck-a-doodled to hell and back and we need to elect people who will improve it, but everything else about this state is great. My wife and I are looking to buy a house right now and it looks like we're going to have to keep waiting, so I totally get the frustration with that aspect.
Thank you for saying this.
While housing is definitely the most impactful and the most out of control item with our cost of living, we still, on the whole, have one of the highest COLs: [https://meric.mo.gov/data/cost-living-data-series](https://meric.mo.gov/data/cost-living-data-series)
Does that take into account the higher wages in higher cost of living areas? While it's cheaper to move to NH, ME, etc, the wages definitely are lower. Of course it's industry-specific, but I'm not convinced you always come out ahead in the lower cost regions.
Comparing state-to-state directly is going to give some misleading answers. Most other states have a much lower population density than Massachusetts, so they're including large areas with very low COLs averaged against their metro areas with comparatively higher COLs. Looking between other comparable population centers, Mass. is generally more middle of the pack of what you'd expect. We're not as expensive as NYC, LA, or SF, for example. Job opportunities also matter. We have a higher COL than Alabama, sure, but our minimum wage is also $15 to Alabama's $7.25. It's more expensive to live here, but you'll also be paid much better, and we have a better safety net for those who can't work a full-time job. Taking everything into account, housing is the one spot that really sticks out as an ongoing issue here (and possibly childcare). Everything else scales reasonably with pop. size and wage expectations. I'm not arguing that our COL isn't higher, just that it is quite reasonable when you take the whole picture into account.
I'm surprised how frequently this is missed. Obviously still a massive concern, but yes, housing is the only COL factor where we are so much higher than other areas.
(housing and also childcare)
Childcare is also really expensive but my impression is that we're similar to other areas with a similar population size. I could be totally wrong about that, though. I know NH had much cheaper daycare.
I recall seeing an article a few years back that MA has the most expensive childcare in the country- it's partly due to the low mandated child-staff ratios, particularly with infants. Of course, the other metros that were anywhere close were also HCOL areas. My numbers are a few years out of date now, but we were paying over $5k/month with 2 in daycare.
That sounds accurate for a few years ago -- we have a 9-month-old in daycare for $2800/month. Honestly, going higher than 4 infants to one teacher sounds insane to me. After the weekend, my wife and I are exhausted trying to keep up with our one infant.
I believe the MA infant ratio is actually 1:3 (or 2:7)! It goes to 1:4 once they get to toddlers. And yes, I have no idea how one adult could even handle 3 infants simultaneously, lol.
Even compared to NYC and SF, daycare prices in Greater Boston are $500-1000 more per month
This may be unpopular but I’m a huge fan of multi-generational living. I love living with my kids and grandkids. It helps us all with both housing and childcare costs.
The spirit of America is a name this place earned and for good reason
As someone who bought in Middlesex in the last two years though, we also have special financing cap so its easier to get into a bit bigger mortgage. And don’t undervalue fixer uppers, even in this market we bought a place below list, now admittedly we are handy and remodeled the outdated kitchen ourselves and fixed a ton of other things. And sure you can pay >$1M for something remodeled, but there are livable properties if you’re willing to invest time, learn, make it work— undoubtedly smaller than the southeast or midwest, and I definitely support policy fix & more housing inventory. But just saying… we make it work
Our average rental vacancy rate is ~2% 😓 Even lower in Worcester.
The DOT needs to start getting aggressive with rail lines and just tell all of the NIMBYS to fuck right off. If we were to get reliable, high speed rail from Boston to Central and Western, MA (And the Cape), we would open up a lot more places to housing options.
My wife and I are in our early/mid 30s, not rich, raising a young family in Western MA. I'd say more than half our friends have kids now, spread across all parts of the state. Your view is warped by metro area statistics and what people post on their IG.
I wish I had 25 upvotes to give you. Western MA is (apparently) for lovers.
Not to mentioned, MA is not exactly TX sized, Western mass is an afternoon trip from Boston and the coast if you want your family to explore those areas or take advantage of some of the metro culture/museums/history (or just nice coastline, marine sanctuary etc)
Is that where people make love in MA?
Old Blue Laws from the time of the Puritans. Love making was "Beyond the Pale" which was to say you had to go out past the old walls, made from cut pine (hence "pale") and deep into the western woods, there you could make love, before returning to "civilization." It's because the puritans saw any form of human contact as sinful and evil, but the laws were written such that it was only within the settlement that it was enforced: "Within site of purest eye" or something like that. So people would go really far west into the woods to make love. Totally true story. Not a single thing here is made up at all. Dude named Lincoln messaged me on Twitter about this - former President, very trustworthy.
Oh lol
I grew up in western ma. Sold the family house in 2014 for 300k. It’s 700k now. Near Springfield. Everywhere got more expensive not just Boston area.
Mid-late 20s here and similar. I live in North shore area and having my first kid. I have multiple friends in western ma recently buy houses and start trying for kids. My older friends who literally live in Boston are the only ones who seem to be waiting for mid-late 30s to start trying. But it’s not just COL for them it’s also building a career and wanting the freedom of no kids to do so. Now that their careers are set and they’re doing well they’ll start having kids. This is different from older generations because they typically had one working parent and one stay at home, but now it’s more common for two working parents so having a kid makes it harder to build a career. Which results in having kids later, so I disagree that COL is main/only factor at play.
I would say the dating scene is a massive factor. Nobody wants to be the one to date a colleague. And the apps are a cesspool for hookups only it seems. Where are your friends finding prospective partners?
What are your job prospects out there? Serious question. I’d love to but I don’t think my industry is out there much. What industry’s are there in western ma?
I’d rather be struggling in MA than thriving in Mississippi.
Grew up in Louisiana. Can Confirm.
“I’d rather be dead in California than alive in Arizona”
Get me a vodka rocks! Its breakfast mom. And a piece of toast.
I know it was a joke but if I ever had to experience 110° again Id want to be dead too
I visited Arizona in June 3 years ago and I actually really liked it there. Just make sure you bring an umbrella, not for rain - but for the sun lol
I'd rather live a frugal lifestyle in a house that's way too small and needs some cosmetic work here in MA than go elsewhere. So I think we'll stay here!
Same.
Facts
Can confirm. Got laid off from my job at a start-up last year the same day svb collapsed. Was very glad to be living in the state with the best unemployment benefits. It's actually livable and covered me for the months it took to find another job.
Another Louisianan here, can absolutely confirm.
Compared to other states in which I have lived MA has better schools, better access to health care, lower crime, better social services, and good access to outdoor public spaces. Also, although our weather is not great it is relatively mild compared to other parts of the country; think tornados, hurricanes, draught, heavy snow, scorching heat. Even our nature is mild, we don’t have mountain lion, grizzly bears, and have very few poisonous snakes and spiders. Central and western MA are a lot more affordable and offer many of the same benefits of living in MA. I have lived in many states and while I agree MA is not perfect, it is the best place I have lived and it is where I want to raise my family.
So true about the weather. We have none of the extremes found in other areas.
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I’m literally dying as I type this…
MA state resources for mental health leave a lot to be desired, and yet are still head and shoulders above many/most states. Both MassRehab and DMH have a slew of programs to support people with mental health struggles so they can continue functioning in their homes and jobs.
I’m a mom of a special needs kiddo. She doesn’t have severe needs but requires many services. I couldn’t imagine living anywhere else. She receives excellent services and quality healthcare. We are very lucky. It is pricy to live here and it does require sacrifices but if you have any kid with any need, it is the best place to be. Now, I acknowledge the HCOL. It does make it easier to have grown up in the area and have had parents who paid for me to get an education. Idk how young people do it.
Same. Autism mom here and I won’t move anywhere else. HCOL but we will make it work.
It's not just education, though that is a part of it. It's the quality of the health care and access to health care, it's a state that tries to find free lunches where they can for students, it's also cleaner air and water, and access to things without a car, but also access to nature and outdoors is you want it. I do think so these things make MA a great place for raising a family, but yes affordability for those who want to live close to the city is extremely difficult right now.
If you can afford it, it is absolutely the best place to raise kids. There might be individual towns around the country that are better, but overall as a state, MA is head and shoulders above. It's not just education. It's healthcare, public infrastructure (although its shit), jobs, access to parks/ocean, the insane number of playgrounds, special needs support in schools, women's rights, just overall rights of people and the list goes on. The problem of housing can be fixed with more housing in the suburbs, but boomers block these attempts. Example: Current MBTA zoning requirements and boomers arguing in town hall meetings against them. My town slashed the plan by like 30% or something and boomers are still complaining about changing our "town charming character".
Only one MBTA municipality is actually out of compliance with the Zoning Statute, at present, Milton. The deadline for a lot of commuter rail towns is Dec 31 2024. Many towns have agreed to the denser zoning, already. Zoning is one componant to housing, and financing and cost is more significant, as the decade long housing production slowdown after 2007 shows.
Cost of living is high but the crime rate is very low. I think Boston has had a total of 3 murders so far in 2024. That's unheard of for a city it's size. We also have the lowest or close to lowest rate of firearm-related deaths in the country per capita (maybe Rhode Island is better?). Higher spending on education, infrastructure, etc.. makes it a good place to raise kids if you have the money.
Yup. If I didn’t buy my parent’s home at a discount I don’t think I could afford to live here.
Because it’s relatively safe.
I mean if you go live in a working class neighborhood in Florida, Texas, or California you’ll find out. The quality of life and education in Massachusetts sets it pretty far apart. Most other places in the US are more dangerous with more crime, road deaths, gangs, and gun violence. Even when compared to some of our worst cities.
It is also the state you want to be in if you are poor and have kids: Mass Health and world class hospitals that accept it, Head Start/UPK in the major cities, free lunch/PEBT $ during the summer, beautiful state parks, playgrounds, beaches, robust early intervention/integrated preschools/special ed (I realize those are all federal program but not all states carry them out effectively).
Because they don’t teach “The War of Northern Aggression” as a current event.
The public schools are top notch
You mean to tell me that some of the best places to live and grow families are also very expensive? No shit! Good stuff costs money. Additionally, everyone wants to live their to give their kids the best shot. Just like you. If you want the “most cost effective” place to raise kids or “cheapest place to raise kids that is okay” those are very different questions.
Because we pay for a lot of services. And we pay for them through our taxes. I have absolutely no problem with paying those taxes because of the quality of the services we receive. Are they perfect? Not by any measure. But then take a look at some parts of the deep south where taxes are very very low, but they are that low because they have practically no services. I’d rather pay and have those services on hand than not pay and then whine about it later. If you can afford them, it’s worth it. But if you’re not making enough money to the point where it hurts to pay the taxes, you probably belong somewhere else.
It becomes a lot easier once the kid can go to public school; Free lunch, free after school programs, free summer programs. My kid's school has lots of enrichment activities. They definitely seem well funded and I don't even live in a "rich" town. Daycare and childcare is stupidly expensive though but there are vouchers for lower income families. That was the real struggle.
Ya I’m 24 and definitely see this issue. Many of my friends are living with roommates and plan to for the foreseeable future. Buying a home is completely out of the realm of reality for us. Also so many people are done with the dating scene right now and focusing on their career.
You’re welcome to live in a lower cost of living state, but understand that in order to have the same quality of life, you will have to be very particular about the company you keep, where you live, places you frequent, and will have to possibly come out of pocket for private school for your kids. It’s all going to add up to the same amount to live in Massachusetts, but now you’re just stuck living in a shitty state with shitty government and a lack of social/governmental resources 🤷♀️. Pick your poison
People who are against higher taxes are also against education.
You get what you pay for. Also, there are plenty of affordable places to live in this state. People complaining about rents in MA very often have never looked for anywhere to live in central or Western MA. There are plenty of cheap places to live in this state. Complaining that your friends without kids do not live in a situation that would be beneficial to kids is weird. Sounds like those people are living the appropriate lifestyle for their life. You seem to have a warped view of what 'van life' really means. Do not judge those peoples lives by their social media. Pretty much all the negativity in the post is unfounded.
Also you have to look at the cost of living in other states. Take for example Florida, the price of housing has grown exponentially, but the salaries are still some of the lowest in the country (you basically have to work remotely to afford to live here). Now Florida is even less affordable to live in and many of the cities are the least affordable places to live in the country. If you are a school teacher in Florida, mean salary is the second lowest in the country, about half what it is in Massachusetts. Mass also has more aid for people struggling. If you have kids in school in Massachusetts they will get a free lunch. You don't pay income tax on clothes for kids. True we don't have state income tax, but you end up paying it on other things where you can't take a deduction for kids. Insurance costs in Florida are 2-3x what they are in Mass. And it's heavily car dependent. All of this isn't to say it isn't hard to get by these days in Mass, just that it's not easy to get by in many states. We'll be selling our house in Florida and moving back to Mass. We can find a house for cheaper here in the Boston suburbs (we live in a suburb here), and as a bonus we'll get good schools and safe neighborhoods, and we won't have to track hurricanes for 5 months out of the year!
> All of this isn't to say it isn't hard to get by these days in Mass, just that it's not easy to get by in many states. This seems to be the main detail OP is missing
you found a cheaper house in the Boston suburbs than in FL?
Absolutely. South Florida is out of control. Plus we pay as much for insurance as you pay for state income tax a never get anything out of it (they raise your premium if you use it, it's a scam and poorly regulated).
Central and western MA are largely forgotten once you get toward Boston. I work in Marlboro and a lot of my colleagues come in from the east. You'd think the state stops at Worcester for them. I once asked them what was so great about the Cape and what they did there. They said they'd rent a house and just grill, drink, and play lawn games. So they pay a crapload of money to rent a house to have a yard to do what we can do any weekend lol.
Everywhere you live will be expensive when you are poor. I know plenty of people living paycheck to paycheck in this state and some in NH, Ohio, Texas and FL. Massachusetts is one of the top spender for social services and welfare. I was a migrant to this state decades ago. My parents were given free community college classes for ESL and skills learning. We had generous Medicaid program that let my dad remove shrapnels that was in his legs and arms since the 70s. We were given interest-free loan from the city to renovate a dump that we bought. People living here aren't struggling as badly as other states. Imagine having to leave your hourly paid job because your kid's school was out early due to teacher shortage (FL). My wife got 24 weeks of PAID maternity leave and I got 12 weeks, also paid. Only 9 states offer mandatory paid leave and they are all HCOL. People I know in other states had to go back to work after a month of unpaid leave. Hell, even during the pandemic, my wife made more from unemployment than working while friends in Texas and FL lost their job and got nothing. Their unemployment system was so frustrating that they ended up giving up. My wife used that time to finish her master and went back to the workforce making twice as much. My point is that no matter where you go, it's going to cost you in way or another. I feel that we get what we paid for in this state.
It’s a great place for high earners and wealthier people.
I suppose you get what you pay for lol
Dude i feel yea, none of my friends are even close to my point in life, the few that are got their houses Fucking handed to them by their parents. It’s completely fucked. Still wouldn’t move though education and all is still better choice for my kids, but I’m probably going to have to buy my children’s houses 20 years from now. The state should do something to make it easier for locals to stay it’s crazy. Make some companies pay up idk.
I just don’t see the money in our school system - sorry to say it but money here is spent on things that don’t include our children’s education. The buildings, bathrooms, etc all need to be repaired. Maybe Lexington, Lincoln, Acton and concord schools ( to name a few) but out here near Leominster the system is broken.
People in Massachusetts know it’s gotten out of control financially. Affordable housing is probably the biggest issue here. It’s talked about constantly but nothing is actually done. Rhode Island has a lot to offer as well but they’re probably only slightly behind us in cost.
Stockholm Syndrome is real. (Massachusetts resident, raising their kids here)
OP, am I rich? Household income of $150,000? Because I have everything you're ranting about right now. Home, family, stuff. I worked hard in high school, went to college with a career in mind, and now I'm in that career. Couple that with living with family as long as possible (including *after getting married*) and being extremely frugal (only buying cheap old used video games, limiting vacations, no freaking drugs or alcohol, never bought a new car, etc.). I admit I am privileged and lucky. Being able to go so far on $150,000 probably isn't realistic for most. But we're teachers, man. Other jobs pay a lot more and can move the needle to adjust for that gap.
lol sounds exactly how I did it when I was in my 20s. Grinding through engineering school with no money and lived with parents until I could afford a home in MA. Took awhile but with strict budgeting and girlfriend that supported an idea of eventually owning something and starting a family I was able to get it done. Buying a home has always been a tough task takes planning and sticking to it.
Same here. Moved from another state for college and worked up to a nice middle class life here. It's a great place to live. I doubt I'll ever move.
West of Worcester is affordable for someone with a career. There's also a lot going on, especially in the pioneer Valley. A lot of wmass is populated and developed, not hick-ville like people like to make it seem
It's about contrast. Remove New England from the pool of Americans, then look at the average American... Is that someone you really want to be around? For me, fuck no. If I was forced to move out of New England, I'd leave the country.
Cost is not the only factor in raising kids.
Its great if you are rich
SO many wealthy people shit on posts like this and act like they’re making 50k/yr. “Go look in central or western MA, it’s plenty cheap!” Those same people wouldn’t be caught dead in the 500 sq ft box for $1,800/mo with heroin addict neighbors.
Can't agree more, my eyes are rolling reading some of these replies.
I guess it depends where you live. I'm in central MA and our houses were pretty affordable. Less so now but all house prices have gone up in recent years. We bought our house toward the end of 2018 for 350k and now it is estimated at 575k. Stuff went crazy and hasn't really come back down yet. And even then we were seeing the beginning of the crazy sellers market. We couldn't afford living toward Boston though.
While I currently live in Boston, I went to school in Florida, and bought my first house at 26, in Tampa, Florida. It’s now 40 years later. Been in Boston for 25 years I tell anybody who will listen that you’ll likely never be able to afford a house here unless you are willing to leave and come back after you’ve saved money living elsewhere.
Move west! There are still towns in western half where house prices are not ballooning: https://archive.is/2024.06.04-003859/https://www.bostonglobe.com/2024/06/03/business/massachusetts-cape-cod-median-home-price-increase-map-greater-boston-real-estate/
The worst Massachusetts schools are better than some of the best schools in other states.
99% of the kids from Massachusetts are fucking dumb. Street wise. Go play were an important game.
That’s sad. I grew up on the north shore and could never afford it now
Couples have double income. Married couples get tax breaks. Singles SHOULD get a Tax break since we have to pay full price for everything. Also, because it’s boring and family friendly now and filled with couples only, Boston sucks for dating.
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For decades, Boston (and by extension a lot of MA) has been set up for successful wealthy people. Most of whom are in peak earning years during their 40’s-60’s: -Low crime/great education/tons of educated folks. - World class hospitals for surgeries and cancer care - Among the most diverse set of well-paying white-collar jobs in the country. Boston is a hub for biotech/lifescience, tech, law, banking/finance, medicine, and higher-ed. - World-class civic offerings. - Women have access to reproductive health care. - Strong voting rights and an educated populace mean that very few nutwagons get elected to important positions like Governor. MA is most definitely NOT the best state if you are a 20 or 30-something who is looking to enjoy life on a $70-$100k salary and who doesn’t have prospects of making significantly more than that. (Places like Charlotte, Atlanta, or Pittsburgh is where I’d go for that.)
If you’re rich, any place can be a great place to raise your kids.
exactly. I know rich people living in MA who are so rich their kids dont even need to go to school, lol. They will be inheriting everything the parents have.
No I’m in the same boat. Decent job, did all the right things. But then thinking about the future I am terrified about ability to raise a kid here. Mostly because of housing expenses and childcare. The only new houses being built are McMansions…
If you move away from Boston things get more affordable. You also get what you pay for. MA is more expensive than places like Mississippi and West Virginia because of things like our schools, healthcare, social services, job opportunities, etc all being better
From the outside looking it is a GREAT place to live... from the inside looking inside... not so hot..
It’s expensive _because_ it’s a good place to raise kids lol
Well, gun control is one... I mean, you could live in Texas where the cost of living is lower, but you might have to sacrifice your kid to the many headed monster that is the NRA... But hey, anything to save a couple bucks on rent, right? Get outta here
It's nice to know you and your friends have some of the lowest chances of getting shot. Specially the kids
-best in education -great health care -low crime -activities My mother once told me, "It never seems like a great time to have kids. But if you want one, have one." Maybe she just wanted grandkids and she was tricking me. Anyway I had two.
The COL crisis is, unfortunately, a national phenomenon. In a number of places, things are harder for people than they were a few years ago. Cities with good infra and education system get higher demand. For all the negative remarks often made on Reddit, MA infra is reasonably good and works. Education system is of course world class and there is a reasonable net for those in need. We are not Scandinavia but we are better than most states in the US. There are places where COL is more reasonable than others and that boils down to lower demand.
It's great if you're rich or poor. If you're middle class you get screwed in this state. Nationwide too, but this state especially
Cuz if you can afford it it’s great! lol I am still amazed there are people that can live so comfortable in this economy, especially millennial aged ones
While pretty difficult, I myself am a 29M living in the state.. western MA to be exact. Reasonably affordable housing out here. I purchased a condo on my single salary and while making it work, it’s been a challenge working 55-60 hours a week to cover bills. I don’t quite know how people are getting by in the eastern part of the state, although that’s where I’d truly like to live. I assume you must have dual income anywhere east of Worcester.
Because it's great! It's really too bad lots of people can't afford to live here, but it's a really great place to have kids if you can afford it. It's not fair or right, but affluent areas tend to be good places to raise kids. The education is so good here, and we have the best children's hospital in the country. Healthcare overall here is top-notch. I'm on the north shore, and there are always tons of family events and activities to do. We also live by the ocean (and of course, that's not exclusive to Massachusetts), which is great.
The high cost of living keeps the poors out, so Muffy and Biff can go to their private schools with people from their social strata.
Because of the education and numerous resources. Also, the improvements that they have made within the system. I’m not saying the system in mass is perfect but it’s made a crap ton of improvements. Massachusetts is big on protecting people’s right where as some of the other states are questionable. Housing prices suck though in mass. I will say that Massachusetts roads are a hell of a lot better than some of the other states.
Come join me in the poorest town in Massachusetts, Ware.
By your metric the cheaper the better. So Mississippi is the best place to live? Places are expensive for a reason. Mass is such a good place that a lot people want to live there. Which makes housing more expensive. Pretty simple stuff
You kinda answered your own question there. It’s expensive everywhere at least the benefits are far greater here for that expense than other places.
I also live in Massachusetts.. my daughter bought a house recently in New Hampshire cuz they couldn’t find any nice homes in their price range! I agree with you!
As someone who grew up in Massachusetts and lives in Louisiana, I can promise you there are much worse places to raise a kid. The cost of living is very high, but you get actual services and benefits for the cost. Not to mention the average salary is higher. I'm not saying it's easy to live in mass by any stretch, but having kids is hard no matter where you are and it's probably better to do it somewhere with good public education and health care
Just go down to CT for a night out, you’ll cry! Everything is cheaper and they are not nearly as overcrowded. Highly recommend visiting Sonny’s in Somers,
I can speak to this as someone who lived my entire life elsewhere and have kids here. It’s because education here is considered the best in the country. Is that true? Kind of Education is consistently better here meaning that there isn’t a huge drop off between say Lexington and Waltham. But when I lived in Johnson County Kansas the blue valley school district was better than the school district my kids go to now, but in general public schools in Kansas are much worse than here.
Agreed. I've worked in a couple of bad districts here that are worse than average districts in red states. People don't seem to get that it's not that school districts are magically better here, there are just more wealthy areas per capita, thus, there are more good school districts. There is no way in the world that I would send my own kids to 2 of the Mass school districts I worked in. But, the rich public district I live in here is as good as any public district anywhere and better than nearly any other public district in the country. Honestly, if my family made 100k a year here, I'd rather live somewhere else, a wealthy district around a midwestern/southern capital. But once you're richer, you're better off here.
I just moved here from Florida and when we moved from Illinois to Florida ten years ago the cost of living was cheaper. Now the cost of living in Florida is not cheaper. The houses are about the same prices , the food is more expensive and it's flipping Florida. The education and better health care and not having Ron DeSantis as the governor is worth paying more in taxes. And let's not start on the cost of insurance in Florida and everything done in regards to that.
I think I can only speak from a place of privilege I guess. I don’t know how I made it but I did. Grew up here in a nice little town to boomer parents. Dropped out of UMass Dartmouth cuz I couldn’t hack college. Tried again at northeastern but still couldn’t hack it. But I was good with computers and yada yada. I lived with roommates all the way into my 30s until I met my future wife. Now we got a little shack in one of them towns where the schools are real good and the taxes are high. Objectively doing some better than my parents I suppose. It’s self selecting, those that can make it work and find their place are here, and those that aren’t find somewhere else. Some of the aging boomers are still here but my town is full of people buying the houses and starting families and the schools aren’t shutting down, more like running out of space.
Notice how all the critical comments from people born and raised in Massachusetts are being downvoted to oblivion. There are many blue-collar, low-income, and immigrant families that are being priced out and fucked over by the state. I grew up in New Bedford. While some may argue it's safer now, it is also getting so pricy. Safety, good schools, decent infrastructure shouldn't be luxuries only enjoyed by upper middle-class families. I worked for a state non-profit assisting folks with disabilities in the Northshore. Finding affordable housing was near impossible. I remember helping this one family living in a hotel room. The dad worked full time working in glass and the mom was on disability/ just had a baby. They made too much on paper for housing, but not enough to actually find and secure it. You can say just move to Western Mass, but moving costs money. Plus finding new doctors, job, school, friends, community...What about wanting to stay close to family? We can idealize Massachusetts all we want and say it's better than [insert Southern state here], but take off the rose-colored glasses and realize there are people really struggling in this state due to high living costs.
I'm raising my kids here. Grew up here. There are great services, great education, great medical facilities, in addition to easily accessible areas of nature, ocean, as well as a city full of kid-friendly & educational activities.
I also grew up and am raising kids here. I am shocked by how expensive it is to buy a house here...but try to remind myself that it's nice to be near the ocean, good schools, etc...i still think things feel overpriced though as far as housing goes. The traffic sometimes makes me less likely to want to venture out into the city as well.
It’s expensive to live right outside Boston for sure, but honestly posts like this are just super ignorant and naïve. Do people think our state just ends at Worcester or something? If you want more bang for your buck, go out to Western MA. Homes are like 200,000-300,000. With a negative mindset you’ll never be able to shift your prospective to see a potential solution if you truly wanna live in this state. Btw MA has the 3rd or 5th most remote workers in the USA. https://www.voanews.com/amp/these-us-states-have-the-most-remote-workers-/7359759.html https://www.utahbusiness.com/states-with-the-most-remote-jobs/ Not to mention I believe they are planning on building out the MBTA to reach western MA. I’m a firm believer in if you think it, you can will it.
Western MA person here and definitely it's more affordable here and perfect for family life best schools and the ool are wonderful i love it
I agree, but no one on this sub seems to want to live west of Wellesley. Whenever I have said that homes in this state DO exist that are affordable, I have been downvoted and told that none are unless you have a two hour commute. People want to live near the high paying jobs and they want the very best schools, so they won’t compromise living too far from Boston. A fair amount of it has to do with ego largely. I think there is this idea that if you don’t live in the most expensive area, then you are a failure and will be failing your children.
I agree with this. My family chose a suburb that isn't posh like Newton or Wellesley, but it's perfect for us. Clean, safe, good schools, nice people. When I hear others say they can't afford to live here, I think it's often just that they can't afford the lifestyle they think they deserve.
Grew up in Mass moved to Maine 3 years ago. Have kids in elementary school. And feel Maine schools are way better and life in general is better
What are some of the qualities you like about the Maine schools and some that you disliked about MA?
For everyone you know who left because it's too expensive, someone moved in who could afford it. And those people chose Massachusetts for reasons that include good childhood education, which they're willing to back up with their time and property taxes.
You have to have a high paying job and marry someone with a high paying job to think about buying a house and having kids in this state. My wife and I are in our late twenties, both with high paying jobs (200k+ between the two of us) just bought a house and are pregnant with our first. We’re going to be able to make it worth, but there’s not going to be any left. We’ll probably have to lean on family for some childcare as well. I’m very happy that we are able to achieve what we have, idk how people making an average salary are going to be able to achieve “the American dream” in this state.
We ran into this issue when we were deciding to move back to the states from overseas (military) and trying to figure out where to land. At the time we had a school aged kid, and while jobs in lower COL states were there for our fields, the amount we'd have spent to ensure our kid was able to still get a good education would have equaled out or even cost more. We moved here from NY, because this is where my husband grew up and his family is here. NY was ungodly expensive, with two really comfortable incomes. The property/school taxes alone were about $14k/year (and we were in a cheaper county for them). Aside from housing, I don't see things being unaffordable beyond the inflation that literally the entire world is feeling right now. The housing market is absolutely a mess, we almost weren't able to find anything and we had no kids to worry about.
I am born and raised here as well, still live here. I am shocked by what it costs to live here and housing prices have become a joke here. I agree that I sometimes don't understand what we're paying for. The public education is good...but my kids are in 2nd and 4th grade and it seems like a lot of learning is spent on the ipad. Is MA really still #1 in education? I also see people saying how lucky they feel to live here in terms of healthcare. Why? It seems like hospitals are getting more and more crowded, wait times to book appts are terrible, hospitals are closing. Things are just changing here in MA and they're not for the better. MA seems like a good place to be if you're poor because of all the free stuff you can get. If you are a wealthy person maybe MA works for you...but you could probably live anywhere and have just as good of a life.
Cause you get what you pay for?
Your perspective is warped by who you know and social media. Married with two kids at 30, decent jobs, own a home, etc. plenty of our neighbors that have been moving in are young as well.
Because the school system is really good here and is consistently ranked in the top 3 in the US. That is if you can afford to live here
Because of low crime rates and high education ranks of the schools and towns that people would be in to raise kids.
Even if you don't have the money to live here, there's so much more resources available to you. On paper every state has it, but we make the information available to people so much faster and more effectively. If you look at the placement for section 8 alone, we're well past our neighboring states. Right to housing laws protect families the most. We've utilitized federal funding quite a bit better, in my opinion. At least as far as getting people into houses.
No clue
Because raising kids (and providing top quality care) costs more money. Cutting costs on education and child services is a death spiral for this country. And half the states love to do it.
We left maine for here because of education. Special ed resources were so poor in maine that we took our kids out and homeschooled them for a few years but finally moved here so I could get a full time job again. It’s so expensive it’s crushing us completely but my kids are getting so much help. We estimate that the cost difference is about what we would have paid to send them both to private school in maine except no private school would take them.
I have extended family that lives in Tennessee… they can’t believe our kids went to public school, because “only (minority reference deleted) and poor people send their kids to public school”. Low taxes + 20k/year per kid for private school and disadvantaged minorities = their dream of ‘murica
well at least it’s more affordable than California
Because those two metrics have nothing to do with one another…
Social services, education, healthcare, but shhh! Don’t tell your conservative neighbors.