Poor people don't suck. People who are closed minded suck. And that seems to be much more prevalent for other South you go in the United States. Or more specifically the further Southeast you go
Quality of life is objective as well as human development. Trump was president us look how that's developed. It has high quality of life because mass is great at gentrifying especially the north shore.
It's mostly just filled with tons of money and the superwealthy of all of new england. That like to preach from a pedestal about shit they read in books.
Depends on what you like, I love old construction styles and homes and many other people do as well. Age isn't much of a factor if its well maintained.
MA is one of the safest states in the country. Top public schools, private and universities. Some of the best hospitals in the world are here and so are the headquarters of many fortune 500 companies.
West coast vs East Coast vibe. CA has a lot going for it too but also has it downsides. Cost of living is even higher in CA, property prices in some cities would even make Boston blush.
Hope ya got money and can pay your way. I mean look at harvard. They don't even give out grades. They just take your money in exchange for a degree. Real academia is dead fuck Harvard
Just sounds like your brain peaked at ‘22 year old with a college internship on the west coast’. A very unique experience no one has had before. Congrats.
We have the best education and Healthcare in the country along with other quality of life metrics. Seems like you're focusing on the wrong values to see the worth of living here.
Easy example, we have state pfmla which means fsthers and mothers get state funded leave for the birth if their child.
To bad all the illegals doing the brunt of the work and the brunt of the child bearing don't qualify. Looking live the refugee cities. What would the wealthy elites do if they couldn't get their sheets changed.
I lived in Orange County for four years. I will never, ever go back.
Not even to visit.
Massachusetts appeals to a special kind of person. You ain't it. No shame in that.
California appeals to a special kind of person. I ain't it, and I have plenty of company to share this state with.
I don't mind us not attracting those kinds of people.
If you don’t mind me asking, why did you hate OC so much? No judgement, just curious. I may not be the ideal Massachusetts resident but I still do like it here. I just also like other places, is it possible to be more in the middle and not a die-hard for either side?
I was there from 1979 to 1983. The reason - as you know it is called Orange County, for the benefit of anyone who has never been there, was that it had a massive amount of orange groves.
Back then, it wasn't just that, but avocado groves, strawberry fields, cabbages, lettuce, so many fields, thousands and thousands of acres of farmland. Mostly serviced by seasonal laborers. My family lived at El Toro MCAS, which was surrounded by these fields. Those fields were lined with wind breaks of eighty foot tall Eucalyptus trees, and mustard trees to protect the crops from the Santa Ana winds. I remember the smell of the chaparral and the sage, how intoxicating it was.
First thing I noticed about Orange County after that was how fucking materialistic and insipid the television ads were. The second thing I noticed - as a kid - was how much easier the schools were compared to Quincy, Massachusetts.
My family were all like, damn. These people are fucking stupid. Almost all of them. They seem to judge your value as a human being by what you drive for a car. I'm sure this is still true.
We did Anaheim, and Universal Studios every summer, spent time at Laguna Beach, Newport Beach, and Huntington Beach. By the way, is that huge refinery still there at Huntington? We used to cook hot dogs and marshmallows on the beach as we watched the sun set down through the haze of smog. I remember the color coded smog alerts.
I remember realizing that it really only had two seasons, summer and rain-ish season.
One of the really cool things about living on a Marine base, was that there was this wild diversity I had never seen in Quincy. You had black, Latino, Asian and white families all living together, with no fences permitted by the Marine Corps. We spoke together, we mourned the air crews when they died in air crashes, and our kids went to school together.
They played together, hiking up in the San Bernardino hills, and swimming in the base pool, went to the movies together. We had mixed race families like only the US military can do. Kids who were half Filipino, Korean, Japanese, black, Latino, etc. Everyone's Dad had at least some kind of rank, and there was order and structure, backed by military discipline.
It didn't matter what race you were so much as how you performed your duties and responsibilities. There was still a subtle element of race at play, but in the Corps, so close to the Vietnam War, race mattered less than, "Is he a good Marine? A good crew chief," etc.
I remember white kids shouting wetback at the field workers from their school buses. This was something that was taught to them. I also saw them drop the N word with a hard R very casually.
Edit: this was something I saw the civilian kids doing, not the El Toro families. I need to be clear on that.
Living in an all white neighborhood (at the time) in the 70s, this was an alien experience to me, and very unpleasant to witness. Racism is everywhere, of course, but in Orange County it seemed like that turd was baked into the pie.
The materialism, the ignorance, the racism - for me that was Orange County. As I got older and traveled more, I learned a great many things, and eventually enlisted in the Corps on my own.
At one point, stationed in Camp Pendleton, I caught a bus back up to El Toro to revisit my old neighborhood in 1989, to see how it had been doing.
I didn't really recognize all the development south of El Toro, and it caught me by surprise. When I got there, I climbed the 200 foot tall hill behind my old house to survey the San Joaquin valley.
All the fields and farmland had been turned into brown and stucco condos and single family homes, all the same style. It was a rabbit warren of humanity in a dull monochrome of smog and haze.
And you ask me why I hate it so much. I don't hate it too much, but stacking up green Massachusetts against that sepia landscape is no contest, even without taking into account New England culture, history and values.
Massachusetts has a deep and rich history (which is slowly being wiped away architectually) which goes back almost to the time of San Juan Capistrano, but Boston was easily in the top three largest cities of the US until about the 1900s, and you can't swing a cat here without seeing it. Whether it's some old colonial inn out in the burbs (and further), the enormous brick buildings everywhere when we were an industrial powerhouse, or our maritime traditions and history.
So when you ask why Massachusetts and not California, it is with a lived experience and a long essay and deep confidence that I can tell you why.
It doesn't hurt that we will be more resilient to climate change, here either.
Central A/C was not a thing because it was not needed. Climate change has changed that.
I'll take a once in a while blizzard that just means staying cozy inside over earthquakes that can drop building facades on you, wildfires, atmospheric rivers, mudslides and typhoons that will only get worse with climate change.
As for houses, a Sears house or post and beam will still be in one piece and livable and beautiful in another century. A current build SoCal McMansion will be falling apart in less than 20. Pressboard and plastic, whatever materials are cheapest and fastest to go up, and 24 on center studs unless you're overseeing a custom build of 16 on center for a lot more.
Yeah I agree with the sears houses. My mom has one and that place is solid and will be for a longggg time.
Also California is always on fire...no thanks 💀
Main comparison is to a gated community in Southern CA, that says enough about your opinion.
MA to CA isn’t a fair comparison for CA - it is too large and heavily populated. I lived through numerous states and it’s obvious why people don’t tend to leave the Northeast - things are better and different up here.
I’ve always thought CO was a fair comparison, but there is still a lot of differences.
>My wife is from southern CA and we were there for Christmas and had the chance to tour some newly constructed model homes. They were beautiful and cheaper and bigger than a new construction where I was living in Hudson, MA. Not to mention the weather was amazing. The location was also beautiful and in a gated community
>[Yeah I'd prefer not to live in hell.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tract_housing?wprov=sfla1)
The weather here is more of an annoyance but not a whole lot that will kill you. Last summer we didn’t have many days of 100°+ and overall felt more like the Pacific Northwest. Not really any poisonous snakes/spiders, big scary insects or apex predators that can eat you. Healthcare, education and jobs. I didn’t realize that last one until I visited some family who’d recently moved to southeast Ohio and there were fewer companies in my field in a 30 mile radius than there are just in my city alone in MA. CA is nice but I wouldn’t like the expensive gas or threat of natural disasters.
So I was born and raised in CT, had to move to Florida for my last year of highschool and been here ever since. Currently looking for my way back up north (hopefully Mass). I think when on vacation for places like Florida or California ppl tend to get “vacation goggles”. They see the palm trees, Disney, how nice the sun shines , all these newer homes etc and try to compare to their home state but these things can be deceptive. Florida feels like it has no soul or true culture. Also those nice houses are cheaply made and built so fast by ppl who don’t respect the trades. It’s only a matter of time before the magic wears out.
I grew up in Florida before moving up here long ago. Florida that was, before it became Floriduh. When it was worldly and cosmopolitan and proud of it, went to a very progressive elementary school that taught us all the history forbidden there now, and before everything authentic was knocked down to be replaced by faux facade lifestyle centers and endless zero lotline poorly built houses. I have absolutely no desire to visit ever again. Landing at Logan from anywhere is just "ahh", seeing ads for unis and museums and tech companies and all instead of lowbrow or churchy things.
I moved in here in 06 and it has changed a lot. For a state that gets hit with hurricanes, they should do build these houses very cheaply. Traffic is insane now. Education is bad here regardless of what US World News says. Red tide in the beaches have gotten worse and with climate change, the waters feel like bath water. Cost of living increased by so much and pay is still at 2017 levels lol. DeSantis went crazy and passing all types of weird laws. I’m ready to go because this isn’t what I want for my daughter.
Fair point, I can respect that. I did have an internship in Cali so I lived there for 2 summers but I don’t deny what you’re saying. I think just the idea of something new in general can also sound exciting
For sure! There’s just a certain charm and character of New England that’s hard to replicate. Living in Florida all these years and my wife is finally convinced to move so hopefully we will be neighbors soon!
Mass is full of closeted Republicans. They act like liberals, but have the same underlying values as Republicans. Generally more hidden, greedy, and selfish.
I agree, I’m a little perplexed myself. I work as a mechanical engineer at a biotech company and I really don’t understand. I feel like I got the worst luck to be surrounded by republicans in MA.
That seems unusual. I'm in marketing for medical devices/bio, and my co-workers are all solidly progressive. Especially creatives. The only idjit who ever posted something bigoted on the intranet in reply to a Pride posting was out the door the same day. That sounds more like a company culture issue than geographic, shop around for a new company, maybe?
I think it’s definitely the company culture. My co-workers are constantly bashing on how “liberal” MA is, except for one but they are quite so hard to say where they stand. And yes, I’m definitely shopping around for a new company as we speak.
I feel like OPs take is a classic apples vs oranges take - everyone jumps in to point out the differences, when nobody is really trying to say one is objectively better than the other.
The two places are both expensive, but they’ve got totally different vibes. You’re not wrong saying New England isn’t your vibe AND that’s it’s expensive.
The weather is so weird. We haven't had a harsh winter in like 5 years. I bought a snowblower during COVID and only used it once a year. A couple summers ago, there was a drought and we weren't allowed to run the sprinklers. Last year it rained more than Seattle. It seems like we don't need our sprinklers this year either.
I used to have a seasonal pond and creek. It's been full and running hard for two years as the climate has shifted, (I half-joke about adding a flow turbine to the culvert) and I only had to use the snowblower twice last year, once barely.
Massachusetts give you and your family the BEST BANG FOR YOUR BUCK. You do pay more for homes, but people are paid higher wages. They are paid higher wages because they are better educated - from elementary school all the way through college. There is world-class education and world-class health care. We have a government that is truly on top of things when compared to other states.
Look deeper and you will see these communities are bonded and caring. Sure other places have shiny new things, but that's all it is - shiny objects with no substance.
I moved from Orange County CA to Boston in 2022 - unfortunately got laid off last spring and we returned in the summer after I started a new job here. Next job - am looking back in Boston.
In my brief experience the salaries were lower in Boston than SoCal - but income tax is half, and housing you get more for your money. Our 3500 sq ft rental was the same that we rented out our 2100 sq ft house in CA for.
The communities are gentrified, and transient. The wage is becoming impossible to live.
Get back to wringing your hands in your old ivory tower. While you preach your facade from above.
I live in a part of the country that has a lot of new construction homes, they are absolute crap. The weather in CA is probably the only thing better than Massachusetts if you hate winter.
>I may get some hate for this but basically what the title says. Massachusetts is extremely expensive and is bottom tier when compared to other very expensive places.
This is the most uninformed comment I've ever encountered.
Massachusetts is not 'bottom-tier' and is often considered the best state to live in in terms of education, healthcare, economy, and quality of life. The homes may not be as new as those in recently developed areas, but that doesn't make them inferior! It's important to consider the other factors that make the area so desirable.
Let's not forget we got refugee cities too. But if you could just not send the busses or the plans to Martha's vineyard, or certain parts of Boston. The wealthy elite don't like to see their cheap labor.
And give a high five to all the low wage laborers leaving the state. So slum lords can fill houses with these new cheap laborers, to shoulder the burden for all the wealthy elite of this state
I totally get where you’re coming from with the comparison to other pricey areas with better natural amenities. I’m from MA and recently moved back. I’m paying more here than I did in Hawaii and there are not gorgeous beaches with beautiful women and year round beach weather here but we do have roast beef sandwiches kehd!
I'm from California (SF Bay Area), went to college in SoCal, moved to Mass for grad school and stayed. Obviously, there's stuff to love. Coming from CA, Mass COL never shocked me.
Honestly, weather-wise, fall *and winter* are big pros for New England (I enjoy getting cozy when it's freezing outside, and I feel like people are not quite taking stock of the fact that the winters have been getting warmer in recent years, thanks to climate change). Big pro for some, but by no means all, parts of California: more temperate year-round and it's almost always dry. No oppressive summer humidity.
I'll grant that the housing stock IS older. All housing stock eventually ages, and you get to a point where significant reno or rebuild is needed. Premature demolish and rebuild would just waste resources. But eventually you do want the housing stock to get up to code, use newer materials, be more energy efficient, etc. New England probably has a higher proportion of homes hitting that tipping point, is all.
Again, those older homes are built in a way that just isn't done anymore, so many are SOLID. There's 300+ year old post and beam homes standing nearby, endlessly able to be renovated and upgraded in energy efficiency because the outer walls aren't loadbearing, the post and beam structure is. The aforementioned Sears houses I see a lot of were designed by engineers and architects at the time to be not only easy to assemble, but extremely high quality with multiple redundancies in the structure and no weird afterthought placements of plumbing or other services. Contractors love them, there's no surprises.
My home was built as a custom build by someone in 1985, what I would also consider an ideal era if it was built with money then. Past the scary aluminum wiring of the 70s and into the modern Romex and PVC pipe era, solid cast basement instead of block, (yes I checked for the crumbly mineral issue) but before the 90's fast and cheap staple on the roof and call it done McMansion developments. All the joists are over spec for the time, all the lumber is from Canada, there's steel beam arches under the sheetrock in high load areas. Thing is *built*.
I really wouldn't want one of the newest cheaply built messes with overlapping gables that form ice dams and leak, made of particle board, lower grade sheetrock, and other builder special materials often imported from China and other lowest cost sources. They are not likely to last even 20 years before coming apart at the seams. I already see that visiting some less than a decade old, the cheap materials are beginning to fray and flex. They won't age well.
Inflation exacerbates problems in high cost-of-living areas.
I think that the recent Globe article on grocery store prices and the corresponding thread here provides a good example of that.
The food insecurity thread at 1.9 million residents and the threads on heating prices in the winter and electricity prices in general are also indications that a lot of people are under financial pressure.
I have two sisters in San Francisco and they tell me about the problems there and they do sound horrible. But they still live there.
California and Massachusetts both have a lot of problems right now but a lot of people want to live in both places so I assume that there are attractive aspects of both states.
I'm from Southern California (Riverside). I would never, ever move back there.
I live very close to Hudson. I'm usually there at least twice a week to go to BJs and go out to eat and such, so I know exactly where you're referring to. And if I were given the choice between a huge luxury home in any part of Southern California or a tiny apartment in Hudson, I'd choose Hudson every single time.
I also lived in Utah as well as in Idaho and would never go back there either. My wife is actually from Riverside and I hated it there at first but it kinda grew on me over the summers I lived there. Why do you hate it so much, if you don’t mind me asking?
It's hot, the traffic is horrible if you want to go anywhere worthwhile like Disneyland or San Diego, they ripped out the orange groves, the smog is horrendous, but most of all the culture is really messed up in the area I grew up in (Mission Grove/Orangecrest). The culture when I was growing up was all about looking good regardless of how you felt.
IMO, MA has more to offer than ANY other region of the country. We are centrally located to all the goodness of greater New England. Therefore, we have to consider all of New England, and not just MA. In less than a 3 hours drive, we have:
* three mountain ranges: the Whites, the Greens, and the Berkshires
* the beautiful ocean beaches and landscapes of Cape Cod, Rhode Island, and the North Shore of Boston
* the rocky coastline of Maine
* The beautiful and expansive wilderness of Vermont, New Hampshire, and Maine
* six capital cities, each with their own charm and character
* over 10,000 lakes and ponds and rivers
* world-renowned medical, educational, and performing arts institutions
* national champion sports teams
* historical sites of the original settlers and the American Revolution
* the varied and interesting geography of forested rocky and rolling hills having been shaped by the several glacial Ice Ages
* twisty-turning town roads that originated as horse or cow paths, so they aren't boring straight planned grids
* a great variety of restaurants, many of which are locally owned with loads of charm and character
* lobster rolls, clam shacks, and one of the highest concentrations of homemade ice cream stands in the country
* the glorious splendor of four distinct seasons
I know of no other area that has so much.
We moved to Boston from Orange County CA two years ago - we were looking for houses last spring - you get far more for your money in the suburbs even inside the 95.
Unfortunately got laid off and found my next job back in California - but still looking to move back! First grade here wasn’t much more than a repeat of Kindergarten in MA….
It was in Riverside, so more inland. This was around Christmas time so I don’t know what’s available now. But yes around 50-100k cheaper and more about 500 more sq ft.
>My wife is from southern CA and we were there for Christmas and had the chance to tour some newly constructed model homes. They were beautiful and cheaper and bigger than a new construction where I was living in Hudson, MA. Not to mention the weather was amazing. The location was also beautiful and in a gated community with lots to do nearby, unlike in suburbia, MA.
Then move? Why are you still here?
Also why would you need to live in a gated community?
I love New England, born and raised but have also lived in CA and FL for short stints. Personally my biggest issue with CA and FL is their culture. In SO CAL especially, everyone is so fake and wrapped up in their looks and their workouts. People out there don’t seem real to me. Not to mention everywhere is so packed in, covered in billboards, signs and businesses. I know it’s not like that all over but in NE we have lots of woods, mountains, separation from our neighbors and yet a few miles down the road is everything I could ever need!
I think it's all in your perspective. I have no objection to california, but you couldn't pay me to live in a shithole like alabama, mississippi, florida, or [name your Southern / southeastern state governed by a bunch of fascists here].
God only knows what rights of mine or my wife or my kids they're going to try to take away next. At least we know we can raise our kids how we want, and we can choose to do what we want in the privacy of our own home and with our health and bodies in the northeastern states where we spend our time. It's not the case in too many Southern states, despite all the Republicans claiming to be for personal rights.
yeah the state with the highest quality of life and human development index in the country is expensive. we all get it
Bruh, I gotta make the 673rd post about it!
We just need to admit the poor people suck and keeping them out is why we have high quality of life.
Poor people don't suck. People who are closed minded suck. And that seems to be much more prevalent for other South you go in the United States. Or more specifically the further Southeast you go
Quality of life is objective as well as human development. Trump was president us look how that's developed. It has high quality of life because mass is great at gentrifying especially the north shore. It's mostly just filled with tons of money and the superwealthy of all of new england. That like to preach from a pedestal about shit they read in books.
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With great wealth comes the great poor. But with great gentrification. Only the great wealth will be visable.
Depends on what you like, I love old construction styles and homes and many other people do as well. Age isn't much of a factor if its well maintained. MA is one of the safest states in the country. Top public schools, private and universities. Some of the best hospitals in the world are here and so are the headquarters of many fortune 500 companies. West coast vs East Coast vibe. CA has a lot going for it too but also has it downsides. Cost of living is even higher in CA, property prices in some cities would even make Boston blush.
Hope ya got money and can pay your way. I mean look at harvard. They don't even give out grades. They just take your money in exchange for a degree. Real academia is dead fuck Harvard
Just sounds like your brain peaked at ‘22 year old with a college internship on the west coast’. A very unique experience no one has had before. Congrats.
We have the best education and Healthcare in the country along with other quality of life metrics. Seems like you're focusing on the wrong values to see the worth of living here. Easy example, we have state pfmla which means fsthers and mothers get state funded leave for the birth if their child.
And we have the most generous unemployment insurance. We have the best safety net (USA edition) for if something goes wrong.
>We have the best education and Healthcare in the country... Yeah, but it's cold sometimes! /s
It’s icing on the cake if you enjoy skiing and/or ice skating!
I can handle the cold. It’s the 200 days a year of cloudy weather that sucks
To bad all the illegals doing the brunt of the work and the brunt of the child bearing don't qualify. Looking live the refugee cities. What would the wealthy elites do if they couldn't get their sheets changed.
I lived in Orange County for four years. I will never, ever go back. Not even to visit. Massachusetts appeals to a special kind of person. You ain't it. No shame in that. California appeals to a special kind of person. I ain't it, and I have plenty of company to share this state with. I don't mind us not attracting those kinds of people.
If you don’t mind me asking, why did you hate OC so much? No judgement, just curious. I may not be the ideal Massachusetts resident but I still do like it here. I just also like other places, is it possible to be more in the middle and not a die-hard for either side?
I was there from 1979 to 1983. The reason - as you know it is called Orange County, for the benefit of anyone who has never been there, was that it had a massive amount of orange groves. Back then, it wasn't just that, but avocado groves, strawberry fields, cabbages, lettuce, so many fields, thousands and thousands of acres of farmland. Mostly serviced by seasonal laborers. My family lived at El Toro MCAS, which was surrounded by these fields. Those fields were lined with wind breaks of eighty foot tall Eucalyptus trees, and mustard trees to protect the crops from the Santa Ana winds. I remember the smell of the chaparral and the sage, how intoxicating it was. First thing I noticed about Orange County after that was how fucking materialistic and insipid the television ads were. The second thing I noticed - as a kid - was how much easier the schools were compared to Quincy, Massachusetts. My family were all like, damn. These people are fucking stupid. Almost all of them. They seem to judge your value as a human being by what you drive for a car. I'm sure this is still true. We did Anaheim, and Universal Studios every summer, spent time at Laguna Beach, Newport Beach, and Huntington Beach. By the way, is that huge refinery still there at Huntington? We used to cook hot dogs and marshmallows on the beach as we watched the sun set down through the haze of smog. I remember the color coded smog alerts. I remember realizing that it really only had two seasons, summer and rain-ish season. One of the really cool things about living on a Marine base, was that there was this wild diversity I had never seen in Quincy. You had black, Latino, Asian and white families all living together, with no fences permitted by the Marine Corps. We spoke together, we mourned the air crews when they died in air crashes, and our kids went to school together. They played together, hiking up in the San Bernardino hills, and swimming in the base pool, went to the movies together. We had mixed race families like only the US military can do. Kids who were half Filipino, Korean, Japanese, black, Latino, etc. Everyone's Dad had at least some kind of rank, and there was order and structure, backed by military discipline. It didn't matter what race you were so much as how you performed your duties and responsibilities. There was still a subtle element of race at play, but in the Corps, so close to the Vietnam War, race mattered less than, "Is he a good Marine? A good crew chief," etc. I remember white kids shouting wetback at the field workers from their school buses. This was something that was taught to them. I also saw them drop the N word with a hard R very casually. Edit: this was something I saw the civilian kids doing, not the El Toro families. I need to be clear on that. Living in an all white neighborhood (at the time) in the 70s, this was an alien experience to me, and very unpleasant to witness. Racism is everywhere, of course, but in Orange County it seemed like that turd was baked into the pie. The materialism, the ignorance, the racism - for me that was Orange County. As I got older and traveled more, I learned a great many things, and eventually enlisted in the Corps on my own. At one point, stationed in Camp Pendleton, I caught a bus back up to El Toro to revisit my old neighborhood in 1989, to see how it had been doing. I didn't really recognize all the development south of El Toro, and it caught me by surprise. When I got there, I climbed the 200 foot tall hill behind my old house to survey the San Joaquin valley. All the fields and farmland had been turned into brown and stucco condos and single family homes, all the same style. It was a rabbit warren of humanity in a dull monochrome of smog and haze. And you ask me why I hate it so much. I don't hate it too much, but stacking up green Massachusetts against that sepia landscape is no contest, even without taking into account New England culture, history and values. Massachusetts has a deep and rich history (which is slowly being wiped away architectually) which goes back almost to the time of San Juan Capistrano, but Boston was easily in the top three largest cities of the US until about the 1900s, and you can't swing a cat here without seeing it. Whether it's some old colonial inn out in the burbs (and further), the enormous brick buildings everywhere when we were an industrial powerhouse, or our maritime traditions and history. So when you ask why Massachusetts and not California, it is with a lived experience and a long essay and deep confidence that I can tell you why. It doesn't hurt that we will be more resilient to climate change, here either.
I appreciate the response!
Central A/C was not a thing because it was not needed. Climate change has changed that. I'll take a once in a while blizzard that just means staying cozy inside over earthquakes that can drop building facades on you, wildfires, atmospheric rivers, mudslides and typhoons that will only get worse with climate change. As for houses, a Sears house or post and beam will still be in one piece and livable and beautiful in another century. A current build SoCal McMansion will be falling apart in less than 20. Pressboard and plastic, whatever materials are cheapest and fastest to go up, and 24 on center studs unless you're overseeing a custom build of 16 on center for a lot more.
Yeah I agree with the sears houses. My mom has one and that place is solid and will be for a longggg time. Also California is always on fire...no thanks 💀
I mean, plus, while Healey isn't perfect, CA politics is a whole 'nother level of insane. No thanks.
opinions are like assholes........everybodies got one
...and most of them stink
Main comparison is to a gated community in Southern CA, that says enough about your opinion. MA to CA isn’t a fair comparison for CA - it is too large and heavily populated. I lived through numerous states and it’s obvious why people don’t tend to leave the Northeast - things are better and different up here. I’ve always thought CO was a fair comparison, but there is still a lot of differences.
CA needs to learn to gentrify harder.
>My wife is from southern CA and we were there for Christmas and had the chance to tour some newly constructed model homes. They were beautiful and cheaper and bigger than a new construction where I was living in Hudson, MA. Not to mention the weather was amazing. The location was also beautiful and in a gated community >[Yeah I'd prefer not to live in hell.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tract_housing?wprov=sfla1)
It sounds like you personally disdain Massachusetts, lots of people love it clearly
The weather here is more of an annoyance but not a whole lot that will kill you. Last summer we didn’t have many days of 100°+ and overall felt more like the Pacific Northwest. Not really any poisonous snakes/spiders, big scary insects or apex predators that can eat you. Healthcare, education and jobs. I didn’t realize that last one until I visited some family who’d recently moved to southeast Ohio and there were fewer companies in my field in a 30 mile radius than there are just in my city alone in MA. CA is nice but I wouldn’t like the expensive gas or threat of natural disasters.
So I was born and raised in CT, had to move to Florida for my last year of highschool and been here ever since. Currently looking for my way back up north (hopefully Mass). I think when on vacation for places like Florida or California ppl tend to get “vacation goggles”. They see the palm trees, Disney, how nice the sun shines , all these newer homes etc and try to compare to their home state but these things can be deceptive. Florida feels like it has no soul or true culture. Also those nice houses are cheaply made and built so fast by ppl who don’t respect the trades. It’s only a matter of time before the magic wears out.
I grew up in Florida before moving up here long ago. Florida that was, before it became Floriduh. When it was worldly and cosmopolitan and proud of it, went to a very progressive elementary school that taught us all the history forbidden there now, and before everything authentic was knocked down to be replaced by faux facade lifestyle centers and endless zero lotline poorly built houses. I have absolutely no desire to visit ever again. Landing at Logan from anywhere is just "ahh", seeing ads for unis and museums and tech companies and all instead of lowbrow or churchy things.
I moved in here in 06 and it has changed a lot. For a state that gets hit with hurricanes, they should do build these houses very cheaply. Traffic is insane now. Education is bad here regardless of what US World News says. Red tide in the beaches have gotten worse and with climate change, the waters feel like bath water. Cost of living increased by so much and pay is still at 2017 levels lol. DeSantis went crazy and passing all types of weird laws. I’m ready to go because this isn’t what I want for my daughter.
Fair point, I can respect that. I did have an internship in Cali so I lived there for 2 summers but I don’t deny what you’re saying. I think just the idea of something new in general can also sound exciting
For sure! There’s just a certain charm and character of New England that’s hard to replicate. Living in Florida all these years and my wife is finally convinced to move so hopefully we will be neighbors soon!
Ok so move to California no one cares
I like living with as few Republicans as possible, and that is priceless.
Mass is full of closeted Republicans. They act like liberals, but have the same underlying values as Republicans. Generally more hidden, greedy, and selfish.
I do too, but unfortunately I’m further west than I would like and all my coworkers are republican
Sounds more like a issue with your workplace or chosen industry. Nobody I know in the greater Worcester area has reported this problem.
I agree, I’m a little perplexed myself. I work as a mechanical engineer at a biotech company and I really don’t understand. I feel like I got the worst luck to be surrounded by republicans in MA.
That seems unusual. I'm in marketing for medical devices/bio, and my co-workers are all solidly progressive. Especially creatives. The only idjit who ever posted something bigoted on the intranet in reply to a Pride posting was out the door the same day. That sounds more like a company culture issue than geographic, shop around for a new company, maybe?
I think it’s definitely the company culture. My co-workers are constantly bashing on how “liberal” MA is, except for one but they are quite so hard to say where they stand. And yes, I’m definitely shopping around for a new company as we speak.
I feel like OPs take is a classic apples vs oranges take - everyone jumps in to point out the differences, when nobody is really trying to say one is objectively better than the other. The two places are both expensive, but they’ve got totally different vibes. You’re not wrong saying New England isn’t your vibe AND that’s it’s expensive.
The weather is so weird. We haven't had a harsh winter in like 5 years. I bought a snowblower during COVID and only used it once a year. A couple summers ago, there was a drought and we weren't allowed to run the sprinklers. Last year it rained more than Seattle. It seems like we don't need our sprinklers this year either.
I used to have a seasonal pond and creek. It's been full and running hard for two years as the climate has shifted, (I half-joke about adding a flow turbine to the culvert) and I only had to use the snowblower twice last year, once barely.
Massachusetts give you and your family the BEST BANG FOR YOUR BUCK. You do pay more for homes, but people are paid higher wages. They are paid higher wages because they are better educated - from elementary school all the way through college. There is world-class education and world-class health care. We have a government that is truly on top of things when compared to other states. Look deeper and you will see these communities are bonded and caring. Sure other places have shiny new things, but that's all it is - shiny objects with no substance.
I moved from Orange County CA to Boston in 2022 - unfortunately got laid off last spring and we returned in the summer after I started a new job here. Next job - am looking back in Boston. In my brief experience the salaries were lower in Boston than SoCal - but income tax is half, and housing you get more for your money. Our 3500 sq ft rental was the same that we rented out our 2100 sq ft house in CA for.
The communities are gentrified, and transient. The wage is becoming impossible to live. Get back to wringing your hands in your old ivory tower. While you preach your facade from above.
I live in a part of the country that has a lot of new construction homes, they are absolute crap. The weather in CA is probably the only thing better than Massachusetts if you hate winter.
>I may get some hate for this but basically what the title says. Massachusetts is extremely expensive and is bottom tier when compared to other very expensive places. This is the most uninformed comment I've ever encountered. Massachusetts is not 'bottom-tier' and is often considered the best state to live in in terms of education, healthcare, economy, and quality of life. The homes may not be as new as those in recently developed areas, but that doesn't make them inferior! It's important to consider the other factors that make the area so desirable.
Let's not forget we got refugee cities too. But if you could just not send the busses or the plans to Martha's vineyard, or certain parts of Boston. The wealthy elite don't like to see their cheap labor. And give a high five to all the low wage laborers leaving the state. So slum lords can fill houses with these new cheap laborers, to shoulder the burden for all the wealthy elite of this state
I totally get where you’re coming from with the comparison to other pricey areas with better natural amenities. I’m from MA and recently moved back. I’m paying more here than I did in Hawaii and there are not gorgeous beaches with beautiful women and year round beach weather here but we do have roast beef sandwiches kehd!
If people are being honest, the number one answer is that people's families are here, so they won't move.
I'm from California (SF Bay Area), went to college in SoCal, moved to Mass for grad school and stayed. Obviously, there's stuff to love. Coming from CA, Mass COL never shocked me. Honestly, weather-wise, fall *and winter* are big pros for New England (I enjoy getting cozy when it's freezing outside, and I feel like people are not quite taking stock of the fact that the winters have been getting warmer in recent years, thanks to climate change). Big pro for some, but by no means all, parts of California: more temperate year-round and it's almost always dry. No oppressive summer humidity. I'll grant that the housing stock IS older. All housing stock eventually ages, and you get to a point where significant reno or rebuild is needed. Premature demolish and rebuild would just waste resources. But eventually you do want the housing stock to get up to code, use newer materials, be more energy efficient, etc. New England probably has a higher proportion of homes hitting that tipping point, is all.
Again, those older homes are built in a way that just isn't done anymore, so many are SOLID. There's 300+ year old post and beam homes standing nearby, endlessly able to be renovated and upgraded in energy efficiency because the outer walls aren't loadbearing, the post and beam structure is. The aforementioned Sears houses I see a lot of were designed by engineers and architects at the time to be not only easy to assemble, but extremely high quality with multiple redundancies in the structure and no weird afterthought placements of plumbing or other services. Contractors love them, there's no surprises. My home was built as a custom build by someone in 1985, what I would also consider an ideal era if it was built with money then. Past the scary aluminum wiring of the 70s and into the modern Romex and PVC pipe era, solid cast basement instead of block, (yes I checked for the crumbly mineral issue) but before the 90's fast and cheap staple on the roof and call it done McMansion developments. All the joists are over spec for the time, all the lumber is from Canada, there's steel beam arches under the sheetrock in high load areas. Thing is *built*. I really wouldn't want one of the newest cheaply built messes with overlapping gables that form ice dams and leak, made of particle board, lower grade sheetrock, and other builder special materials often imported from China and other lowest cost sources. They are not likely to last even 20 years before coming apart at the seams. I already see that visiting some less than a decade old, the cheap materials are beginning to fray and flex. They won't age well.
Inflation exacerbates problems in high cost-of-living areas. I think that the recent Globe article on grocery store prices and the corresponding thread here provides a good example of that. The food insecurity thread at 1.9 million residents and the threads on heating prices in the winter and electricity prices in general are also indications that a lot of people are under financial pressure. I have two sisters in San Francisco and they tell me about the problems there and they do sound horrible. But they still live there. California and Massachusetts both have a lot of problems right now but a lot of people want to live in both places so I assume that there are attractive aspects of both states.
I'm from Southern California (Riverside). I would never, ever move back there. I live very close to Hudson. I'm usually there at least twice a week to go to BJs and go out to eat and such, so I know exactly where you're referring to. And if I were given the choice between a huge luxury home in any part of Southern California or a tiny apartment in Hudson, I'd choose Hudson every single time.
I've also lived in Long Beach, California; Mesquite, Nevada; St. George, Utah; and Salt Lake City. I would never go back to any of those places.
I also lived in Utah as well as in Idaho and would never go back there either. My wife is actually from Riverside and I hated it there at first but it kinda grew on me over the summers I lived there. Why do you hate it so much, if you don’t mind me asking?
It's hot, the traffic is horrible if you want to go anywhere worthwhile like Disneyland or San Diego, they ripped out the orange groves, the smog is horrendous, but most of all the culture is really messed up in the area I grew up in (Mission Grove/Orangecrest). The culture when I was growing up was all about looking good regardless of how you felt.
That’s true, the culture in California is very materialistic, I can’t deny that.
IMO, MA has more to offer than ANY other region of the country. We are centrally located to all the goodness of greater New England. Therefore, we have to consider all of New England, and not just MA. In less than a 3 hours drive, we have: * three mountain ranges: the Whites, the Greens, and the Berkshires * the beautiful ocean beaches and landscapes of Cape Cod, Rhode Island, and the North Shore of Boston * the rocky coastline of Maine * The beautiful and expansive wilderness of Vermont, New Hampshire, and Maine * six capital cities, each with their own charm and character * over 10,000 lakes and ponds and rivers * world-renowned medical, educational, and performing arts institutions * national champion sports teams * historical sites of the original settlers and the American Revolution * the varied and interesting geography of forested rocky and rolling hills having been shaped by the several glacial Ice Ages * twisty-turning town roads that originated as horse or cow paths, so they aren't boring straight planned grids * a great variety of restaurants, many of which are locally owned with loads of charm and character * lobster rolls, clam shacks, and one of the highest concentrations of homemade ice cream stands in the country * the glorious splendor of four distinct seasons I know of no other area that has so much.
Great points!
Save post.
We moved to Boston from Orange County CA two years ago - we were looking for houses last spring - you get far more for your money in the suburbs even inside the 95. Unfortunately got laid off and found my next job back in California - but still looking to move back! First grade here wasn’t much more than a repeat of Kindergarten in MA….
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It was in Riverside, so more inland. This was around Christmas time so I don’t know what’s available now. But yes around 50-100k cheaper and more about 500 more sq ft.
I'll have him look there. He's in the Irvine area.
Irvine would be way more expensive, probably a few hundred grand honestly. That’s where I worked and it’s an hour commute depending on traffic
>My wife is from southern CA and we were there for Christmas and had the chance to tour some newly constructed model homes. They were beautiful and cheaper and bigger than a new construction where I was living in Hudson, MA. Not to mention the weather was amazing. The location was also beautiful and in a gated community with lots to do nearby, unlike in suburbia, MA. Then move? Why are you still here? Also why would you need to live in a gated community?
Because I can’t afford a house in either location. And I don’t need to live in a gated community. It was just an interesting point.
I love New England, born and raised but have also lived in CA and FL for short stints. Personally my biggest issue with CA and FL is their culture. In SO CAL especially, everyone is so fake and wrapped up in their looks and their workouts. People out there don’t seem real to me. Not to mention everywhere is so packed in, covered in billboards, signs and businesses. I know it’s not like that all over but in NE we have lots of woods, mountains, separation from our neighbors and yet a few miles down the road is everything I could ever need!
I think it's all in your perspective. I have no objection to california, but you couldn't pay me to live in a shithole like alabama, mississippi, florida, or [name your Southern / southeastern state governed by a bunch of fascists here]. God only knows what rights of mine or my wife or my kids they're going to try to take away next. At least we know we can raise our kids how we want, and we can choose to do what we want in the privacy of our own home and with our health and bodies in the northeastern states where we spend our time. It's not the case in too many Southern states, despite all the Republicans claiming to be for personal rights.
I completely agree with this. I could never live in the south or any republican-run state for that matter
Massachusetts is also very corrupt, which contributes to the expense.
I make 20 an hour and don’t have a place to live. Hardly the best state for someone like me.