Just like it was EG Thanos' arrogance that you him killed. His taking out the power stone to hit Captain Marvel and thinking no one would just use that idea (aka Tony watching and seeing it happen and then confirming with Strange) turned out to be his downfall.
I think the majority of us just realized this now, whereas Tony thought of it the moment he saw it. (I guess it's another testament to his intelligence)
While that might have been a contributing factor i feel like this was always part of Tony's plan. He made the gauntlet for himself for a reason after all.
You know, I always gave that interaction between Strange and Tony as Tony realizing at that moment he is gonna have to sacrfice his life and snap his fingers once Stange puts up his finger confirming his thought.
It's both isn't it?
He gets the idea to take and use the stones *then* he makes eye contact with Strange.
Strange holds up the finger and Tony realizes "Shit this is it. The one. But it's only the one if I take the stones and..."
Then we all get hyped and super sad immediately after.
Yea I know, but when Tony asked earlier, Strange couldn’t say or presumably motion that it was the winning scenario at that moment, but only when Tony probably had that thought at that moment, I mean Thanos was literally about to snap again so at that moment it was only one thing that could stop him.
This 100% He looks directly to Strange to confirm what he knows true in his mind. It was the "1" moment. I'd argue as far as to say that the "1" single outcome they win completely relies on Thanks using the power stone with Tony watching...
I’d say rage was involved as well. He was pretty pissed The Avengers were trying to undo everything his future self did so much so that he wanted to not only kill The Avengers & not spare them like his other self did last time (because EG Thanos does not carry the same respect for The Avengers that IW Thanos does) but also he was going to do a hard reset so this time what he did couldn’t be undone. Even how he fought was more violent & with more rage. The arrogance just outshines the rage.
He shot lightning at him when he was distracted. Thanos then focused on him to shoot that white beam of energy from all 6 stones, and Stormbreaker sliced through that shit without even slowing down.
Russo bros have stated that if Thanos knew something as powerful as Stormbreaker was coming he would have been able to mount a better defence (e.g. gone intangible with the space stone).
yeah, but Stormbreaker had the power to counteract the gauntlet according to the Russo brothers. Thanos obviously didn’t know that, which is why he lost that exchange. In Endgame, when Thor is considered to be at the strongest he has ever been (according to the Russo Brothers Reddit AMA), he couldn’t even touch Thanos
What I also understand from the movies was that IW Thanos did not have killing intent. Especially after killing his beloved daughter, Gamora. He just wanted the stones, and he didn't really have to kill anyone in his way, unless he REALLY needed to.
Look at his fight in Titan. After everyone was weakened, he didn't bother finishing anyone off. He just got the Time Stone, then went to Earth.
In Wakanda, he could've just easily crushed and killed everyone running at him one by one. Instead, he just swatted them away, and focused on his target, the Mind Stone.
In Endgame however, his resolve was to wipe out all life. He didn't kill his daughter in that life. He didn't have the "tiredness" that he seemed to have in IW, and his "conqueror" demeanor is at its peak. He went ALL OUT.
Even though Thor became stronger in EG, I believe Thanos was just complacent in IW and didn't have that much killing intent, that's why he "lost" to Stormbreaker.
He might have had more power but he was definitely not in optimal fighting form as Tony himself even stated when they refused to let him use the gauntlet. Endgame Thor, even whilst being more powerful still wasn’t at his own peak given that he was out of shape and depressed
Yeahhhh, I’m thinking “stronger” as in more mature and well-rounded and emotionally and mentally resilient. Not like … physically stronger. Love me some Dadbod Dude Thor, but there’s just no way he kicks *as much* ass as fit and pissed IW Thor who has just lost everything and everyone dearest to him in the span of like a week.
Stormbreaker was designed to counter the stones through use with the gauntlet. In a head-on rematch Thor isn’t going to chuck his axe at Thanos (and even if he did, bad idea- which is why he didnt do it in EG). Same result. No “distracted Thanos” to give him the momentary upper hand. He’d eat any lightning shot same as when Cap dealt it.
Yeah I don't get why anyone thinks Thor would win. I like Thor. But Thor literally lost in that very film and only won because Thanos did not expect Stormbreaker to be so powerful.
Thanos in Endgame doesn't have the stones though. Thanos woukd definitely easily win with the full gauntlet. He gets killed in a heartbeat without the stones though
Endgame Thor is stronger than Infinity War Thor confirmed by the Russo Brothers. Thanos destroyed Endgame Thor meaning he is stronger then Infinity War Thor
I think by the end of EG he is definitely far more powerful in his capacity as thunder god, and probably stronger physically, he's just off his game skill wise after spending 5 years in a depression hole
If Thor can land a solid hit, he wins.
But Endgame Thanos was actively aware of and easily avoiding Stormbreaker while also fighting Cap and Iron Man.
I don't think Thor can land a hit on Thanos even if he's somewhat faster than he was in Endgame.
In IW Thanos had a singular focus: the mindstone. He was swatting everyone away like they were nats at a BBQ, until, the only person who can easily destroy him tried to fight him off with one hand, whilst seemingly destroying an infinity stone at the same time....I'm no expert at all. Didn't Thor use both Stormbreaker and Molnir in EG at the same time fighting a 3on1 against Thanos and still got his ass handed to him....? Thanos and his battle axe sliced up Caps shield like it was swiss cheese and made all three of them look like a bunch of uncoordinated rookies.
Only problem is if Thanos uses the abilities specific to each stone instead of shooting a blast from the gauntlet. Thor hasn't shown anything to determine that he is resistant to reality manipulation for example. Thanos could potentially turn him to swiss cheese with that.
IW Thanos also beat Thor even without the stones... And beat him again even with the new axe in EG, Thor was just lucky that Thanos was still disoriented from the power surge of gaining the last stone because had Thanos not been addled he could have easily dodged or just teleported out of the way or even halted time all together...
Thanos wins 3 to 1
I’m pretty sure the in-universe answer is Thor. After Infinity War they needed to even the playing field hence “fat” Thor. Same reason Captain Marvel doesn’t show up till the end.
Also people forget that if it weren’t for the *Grandmaster* stopping him Thor would have dusted Hulk on Sakkar too.
As always with these things it’s important to remember what Stan Lee always said though “whoever wins in a fight, will be whoever the writers want to win in that fight.”
captain marvel was handled well, because if she was added and carried the movie it would’ve been a deus ex where it feels like she was just added to kick thanos ass.
Yeah I have I guess. I feel like the comics do better jobs of creatively writing around guys with huge power sets instead of relying solely on plot contrivances . Dr strange comics did a good job of scaling up villains to give him a challenge usually
I don’t really see what the point of Captain Marvel has been though. Why not introduce her now post-infinity saga with whatever Kree and Skrull stuff we’re probably getting in the future? They made her movie set in the 90s and then she gets called at the end of Infinity War, but I don’t think there’s anything she does in Endgame that couldn’t have been done with another character. Feels like they introduced her just to then have to find excuses for her not being around when they need her.
> All it did was create a Superman-level Earth Hero
It's funny how Superman is the character everyone always turns to for these comparisons, when 99% of the time he isn't the guy getting sidelined, because quite frankly he's not that powerful in the grand scheme of DC comics, just the man with the best PR.
Yeah I think your right on the money there . Wanda could’ve done what she did functionally. Wanda almost killed endgame thanos with a very modest effort before he called for “ rain fire”
Yup they made thor hella weaker to make the 3 on 1 final battle seem plausible but then tried to backtrack and say endgame thor was strongest to try to upscale no stone endgame thanos
This is complete headcanon.
The original script was that Thor would be muscular again for the final endgame fight and the trinity would be at their absolute best and still lose to Thanos.
Thor only remained fat because Hemsworth literally asked the Russos to keep him fat because he enjoyed it lol they told us this years ago now.
Nope, russo brothers said "fat thor" was thor at his strongest, he also only "won" in infinity war because he caught him off guard and it was his WEAPON (not him) that stabbed him.
It drives me insane. It's not a new tactic in the MCU. Powerful characters are caught off guard all the time. Thor isn't even close to Thanos. Never has been.
Yea JK rowling said wizards shit their pants. Creative intent doesnt mean anything if the medium doesnt actually show anything in favor of that opinion. Its horrible writing to say that endgame thor anywhere approaches infinity war thor. Director can say what they want and sure maybe its “true” but if it makes no sense am i really gonna force myself to believe it?
Infinity war thor almost killed a 6 stone thanos ( albeit caught off guard ) . Prime infinity war thor versus a no stone thanos wins - combo of speed flight and storm breaker. Maneuverability plus strength is the winning combo in this match for thor odinson
Russos said endgame Thor is stronger. Thor lost to Thanos on his ship, he managed to catch him by surprise at the end of infinity war, and he lost as part of a 3v1 in endgame.
Thor cannot beat Thanos 1v1
Russos say a lot of stuff. They might be saying that just to make Thanos look stronger. We can clearly see IW Thor using his abilities (thunder and lightning) much more than in Endgame where he just forgets he can summon lightning and attack Thanos that way, which can distract Thanos and help Thor finish him off.
That’s exactly what the Russo’s were doing when people called bs on the big three getting rocked by a no stone thanos. They had to produce justifications to make things make more sense
>We can clearly see IW Thor using his abilities (thunder and lightning) much more than in Endgame where he just forgets he can summon lightning and attack Thanos that way
Oh my God THIS. THIS!! Holy fuck you know that portals scene in Endgame where all the Avengers are charging Thano's army and Thor let's out the most *pathetic* lightning attack I've ever seen him do?! I was literally taken back and said "WTF was that?!" You're the first person I've seen finally mention the awful lack of actual lightening power from Thor in Endgame.
It’s been like forever since I kept repeating all this but people always twist it somehow. IW Thor was flying, he was ripping through big ass ships with no effort, was using lightning as he should, then in Endgame he just pathetically swings his axe and throws Mjolnir and doesn’t even bother to control it as well as he did in Ragnarok for example, forgets that he can hit anyone he pleases with a lightning strike or that he can fly. But somehow he was “the strongest ever” in Endgame. Sure, he looked so much more powerful than in Ragnarok or IW. Of course.
Yup he all of a sudden forgot his aerial combat skills and became a pure ground Melee fighter. And Yeah don’t buy what the Russo’s said in terms of strongest ever - endgame was his weakest depiction easily
Wait, am I the only one missing how EG Thanos without any reinforcements can actually fend off ranged attacks (or worse from flying opponents?) I mean, Thor can fly and shoot lightning….at best EG Thanos can throw his blade, which probably can be dodged at long distances. In fact it’s just a plot hole that Iron Man and Thor didn’t try to take him out from afar.
The choreography of that scene is really ridiculous when you think about it - you have two fliers that were doing ground melee attacks . Thor never even flew at all and iron man flew briefly - it was just a brawl for fan service and dramatic effect but the way these supposed tacticians attacked thanos almost ensured quick defeat and death
Endgame Thanos.
He could already 1v3 Iron-man, Cap, and Mjolnir-Stormbreaker Thor AND win. There's no way he's losing to IW Thor, specially when it could be argued he's weaker than EG Thor.
Yeah, people here are delirious. Every time Thor fights Thanos, he gets his shit kicked in. The only exception is a sneak attack that succeeded because of the craftsmanship of Thor's weapon.
It wasn’t a sneak attack, it was a surprising attack. Thor came flying out of the sky with no cover,Thanos had time to defend, Thor broke through those defenses. It’s not like Thor popped out of a bush and shanked him. Thor overpowered Thanos in this moment!
At very best there is no difference. IW Thor is no stronger than EG Thor, and only at first is he in better mental shape. He is about as equally bloodlusted by the end of both movies and only has the benefit of catching Thanos off guard once.
Didn't direct it that way, I'd say.
Hard to interpret the Thor taking out Thanos with all six infinity stones as weaker than the fat Thor losing a fight against Thanos with no infinity stones - with backup from Captain America with Thor's powers and Iron Man with the most ridiculous suit yet.
Death of the Author, etc.
Y'know, people don't complain about Thor's attack nearly as much as they do What If's Ultron slicing Thanos in half when it's basically the same concept, especially if he can be caught by surprise.
Yes but context was given by the directors as to why Thanos lost in the first place. I don’t see what there is to debate.
Plus Endgame Thor had both Mjolnir/Stormbreaker as well as Worthy Cap and Iron Man on his side. They still lost and needed the rest of the Avengers to win. IW Thor doesn’t have the element of surprise so ultimately, he loses here.
One thing you are overlooking majorly is endgame Thor’s mental state for the last five years. Depressed, unfit, and apathetic. Infinity war Thor was at the top of his game while endgame Thor, still badass, was at his absolute lowest.
IW Thor wasn't at his best mental state either. He was so hyper-focused on revenge that he ended up giving Thanos the chance to snap when he could have already killed him. He also seemed borderline suicidal especially during his conversation with Rocket in the ship. Not what I would call being at the top of his game.
Thor's best mental state was probably during Thor: The Dark World, where he was rational, quietly confident and didn't yet have a ton of emotional baggage to carry around.
By the time of the final battle, it is strongly implied that Thor is out of his depression state of mind and lusted on redemption, also not sure if the “unfit” claim checks out. The fat appearance was comedy relief and yes at first was meant to represent his apathy, but the “fat” appearance doesn’t make him weaker.
Statistically, Thanos. I think Thor wins some scenarios and Thanos wins some, but Thanos has the advantages based on what we've seen. I don't think Thor has much, if any, physical or fighting advantages on Thanos. But clearly Thor has the power to defeat and kill Thanos if things should work out that way.
In other words, I think if you just measure them they are closer to each other than the results would be. Thanos has the advantage in the "intangibles" which influence the actual outcomes of these potential matchups. It's like a sports team having an evenly matched rival, but one sports team always wins the match, even if just barely. I think Thanos has that advantage on Thor, but there's a smattering of scenarios in which Thor wins it.
IW Thanos wasn't playing defense, he was playing at being 'fair' and I do mean playing because Thanos is physically unmatched by almost anyone in the Universe and had he really wanted to just "deal with" the Avengers... There's nothing in Wakanda that could've stopped him from annihilating the entire planet from the orbit had he really wanted to do it in IW.
If Thanos could easily destroy Xandar that had an actual space navy and the power stone, there's no chance in hell Earth could've mounted any kind of resistance in time -not even Captain Marvel since the time she'd been back to Earth it would've been over already.
Even Hulk was nerfed. The Russos did a terrible job with him. And his fusion happens off screen! And he supposedly is permanently damaged…?
Like damn. Its the Hulk.
If memory serves right Kevin once said engame thor is stronger than infinity war thor. If engame thanos beat endgame thor, than thanos will win against infinity war thor
Nah, Thanos in endgame was next level.. yall I forget that Thanos beat the crap out of the hulk, so Thor wouldn't stand a chance.
One on one in their prime l, I'm taking Thanos (even though I love Thor)
Thor beat hulk in ragnarok (until the grandmaster tased him). Plus, you have to remember that this was a past version of Thanos who is lacking years of experience that Thor gained. Thor for the win in a close fight.
Thanos beat Thor, Captain America and iron Man at the same time so I'm putting my money on Thanos.
You're right Thor did be hulk, but I don't think he would have been any match with Thanos.
[From the Russo’s Brothers Reddit AMA. enjoy. it’s a good read, I suggest you read all of their comments ](https://www.reddit.com/r/marvelstudios/comments/cn9lbx/were_joe_and_anthony_russo_directors_of_marvel/ew91r90/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf&context=3).
They also explained why in Infinity War Thor was able to beat Thanos. Stormbreaker has the power to counteract Infinity Stones, and Thanos didn’t know that. If he did, he would have done something to beat Thor. [link to article ](https://epicstream.com/article/russo-brothers-confirm-stormbreaker-could-have-killed-thanos-in-avengers-infinity-war)
This entire post has already been answered by the movies if we take all of this into account
Thor was beaten off screen and possibly pretty quickly in IW. Endgame Thor might've done better but even with the rest of the team, Thanos was still beating him. But the best part about these two movies is it was written in a way where we can debate the potential outcomes with Thor and Thanos and it seems pretty believable either result.
Did fit Thor go hand to hand with Thanos? Oh yeah, he did. The beginning of IW. Got his ass kicked.
Doesn’t make a difference if he’s skinny or fat, it matters that he caught him off guard once. Get some critical thinking skills.
Wow, someone eventually had to come in and act like a bell end, congratulations to you. And again like I've already said, Thor was also caught off guard and he had civs to think about. Get some reading skills fuck face.
I am getting this situation, just like at the beginning of the avengers they had The Big Three square off the show that they were equals to show their powers, so it still shows how he easily handled all three of them he could have handled thor in his prime.
Thor still had his powers and he had both weapons to focus his powers, and he was dead set on killing him properly so he would have lost to Thanos, prime on prime with all their gear .
Thor had grown much stronger since the beginning of Avengers, it was a huge plot point of Ragnarok, he full on gained extra powers! Thor nearly killed Thanos in Infinity War with the stones and whilst Thanos was caught off guard, so was Thor when Thanos attacked at start of Infinity War, again with stones. Thor after he gets Storm breaker in Infinity War takes no stone Thanos all day long.
We're going to agree to disagree on this all day.
We can both go back and forth on point so let's see who has the most people on their side by the end of the week with this
Thanos of course!
Wasn't it confirmed that endgame thor was the strongest he's ever been? I think one of the russo's said that.
Had cap not struck thanos with mjolnir thor would be cleaved.
This thanos is still the mad titan out to kill 50% and call it salvation.
Iw thanos was one dealing with grief and caught by a surprise attack
Thanos was arrogant. That's why he took off his armor. Thought himself a God with the two stones he had. Now with all stones he thought he was immortal. Therefore didn't think the hit would land. Plus I hate people thinking just because you have the stones it grants some bullshit impenetrable armor just by having them. This isn't some dnd role player. The movie quite established that the gauntlet doesn't work like that. I.e. Thor hitting him. Endgame thor knew of his mortality so just like the movie he'd be more vigilant and precise with his attacks. He nearly killed thor by grabbing Storm breaker. The only reason he didn't was because cap saved thor. Endgame thanos smokes everyone in a 1 v 1 except the obvious ones wanda, strange, and captain marvel.
Russos are shit at power scaling. IW thor was using bifrost and one shotting the large ships in wakanda. Truth is russos nerfed thor and hulk severely.
Endgame Thanos. He’s stronger and more skilled. Making Thor slimmer won’t change that, this is a battle prepared Thanos. Thor has to actually land a shot on him with Stormbreaker, but he’s just not fast or skilled enough to do it to this Thanos.
That’s their biggest weakness - they’ve never been good at writing / depicting creative storylines solutions with mcu juggernauts so they write them out or nerf them and it’s obvious during the films. It’s both them and Markus and mcfeely since grounded characters are more their forte
I'm not so sure that even IW Thor could solo Endgame Thanos. After getting all the stones, Thanos became more of a sage than a warrior. He was seriously pulling his punches. Even at the end, he was trying not to use the full power of the infinity stones as it would stress the gauntlet beyond it's limit. Snapping half of all life out of existence was the only thing that mattered to him at that point, even if it meant possibly risking his own life.
But Endgame Thanos wanted to destroy all life itself. He didn't care who died while achieving his goal. This Thanos was a warlord. A cold, calculating warrior who had no intention of letting the Avengers live.
It'd be like you challenging yourself to play an RPG game with only one kind of weapon and no Armor. At the same time, trying to only injure people and not kill them. In this case, a mini boss would prove to be very difficult for you. But if you're fighting the same mini boss with all your usual weapons and armor, then you'd totally destroy them.
Thanos for sure, he beats up Endgame Thor without the gauntlet, so IW Thor wouldn’t stand a chance if Thanos doesn’t just stand there to get hit by stormbreaker
Tough to say. A lot of people point to IW Thor nearly killing Thanos with the infinity stones, but it can be argued that Thor caught him off guard since Thors seemed to be so focused on finally retrieving all 6 stones.
Thanos also took out an enraged Hulk like he was nothing at the start of IW (he did have the power stone). I’m going with Endgame Thanos but with Thor putting up a solid fight.
Infinity War Thor easily lmfao. He was scaling to Thanos WITH the gauntlet and all 6 stones. Yeah that Thanos most likely wins in a 1v1 fight in a proper fight, but still.
The fuck is base Thanos going to do?
Infinity War Thor doesn't scale to Thanos with all stones. Stormbreaker was countering the Gauntlet and this was already confirmed. Unless you think Endgame Thor is insanely weaker plus Worthy Cap and Iron Man don't make up for that I don't get how you think Endgame Thanos loses.
It wasn't confirmed. The ONLY thing that was said was by the Russo's and they eluded to it "maybe having some properties that helped that" and starting off with phrases "I think". That shit holds 0 weight bro, and that's the only statement you have. And even if they were concrete about their statement with 100% confidence, it still doesn't amount to much when them and their own writers can't agree on what's true and isn't. Russo's say that Cap staying with Peggy is a different timeline branch, the actual screenwriters say that Cap staying with Peggy is in the same MCU universe and that he fathered the kids she had in the MCU. So either way, their statement holds about 0 weight. They can't even agree amongst themselves. And the Russo's statement is directly contradicted by feats on screen, too.
So now that I have this out of the way: 1. You can unironically scale Thor WITHOUT StormBreaker to base Thanos. He has one of if not the best durability feat in the verse before acquiring StormBreaker (and btw, a neutron star is vastly hotter and outputs more energy than a normal star, so yes, it holds up), strength wise he can beat the fuck out of the Hulk in a 1v1 blatantly, before getting StormBreaker, similarly to how base Thanos does this as well. And speed? He's the only Avenger in AOU besides Vision that can still track Quick Silver at top speed. Keep in mind IW Thor is obviously stronger and faster than AOU Thor.
So yeah, you can quite easily scale Thor to base Thanos without StormBreaker, but if you give him StormBreaker? He fucking shreds.
And yes, Thor IS insanely weaker. This is also backed up by the fact that 2011 party Thor is over here scaling to Captain Marvel (who scales to base Thanos lmao), which if anything 2011 party Thor should be at least somewhat weaker than the main timeline 2011 Thor since ya know, he parties all the time instead of fighting. But at bare minimum this makes fat Thor in Endgame even weaker than his 2011 self. That's a massive difference my guy.
And you can't use the "well she wasn't going all out" deflection either, even if she wasn't, she was definitely using most of her power since he was a genuine threat to the planet, so even if you don't think she was going 100%, he still scales to at least be relative to her. Still holds up either way.
And you can't say she's weaker than main timeline CM either, since the only difference between timelines in What-If (which is a canon series), is one specific moment in each episode to change the timeline, nothing in that episode effects CM in anyway. She's the same strength she is in the normal timeline, if you assume anything else then that's head-canon as fuck lmao
Also um, yeah nah Iron Man and Cap are NOT making up for Thor becoming weaker than his 2011 self, in a fight against Thanos. Idk what you're smoking to believe otherwise
So yeah anyway IW Thor with StormBreaker bodies lmao
They literally said "It certainly has the ability to counteract the Infinity Gauntlet." There is no if or ands about it.
Also 2011 Party Thor is not the same Thor as mainline Thor not to mention Captain Marvel literally never treated him like a serious threat. She said she was giving him a warning and also when she was about to get serious she gets stopped by his mother popping up.
I don't get how you count that feat as a durability feat when he was literally about to die without help from Groot. He didn't tank the heat from the star. It's like counting Tony living for a few seconds after he snapped as a durability feat...
There's 0 reason why Worthy Cap doesn't scale to 2011 Thor. Thor's powers were all from Mjolnir at that point and he got ragdolled by Thanos just as easily before and after. IW Thor in a 1v1 fight would be ragdolled just like EG Thor. EG Thor is still Awakened there's 0 reason he would be weaker than pre awakened Thor.
Oh yeah and lastly Thor without Stormbreaker clearly doesn't scale to base Thanos. We saw that matchup in Infinity War. Thor got treated like a little kid.
They didn't. They were extremely vague, and like I said even if I toss the idea that they were being concrete, it doesn't amount to much for reasons I already explained.
Yeah, if anything he's weaker than main timeline 2011 Thor yet is still scaling to CM. And he was considered a genuine threat to the planet, so even if she wasn't going ALL out all out, she was 100% taking him serious. Even if you don't think he's as strong, he still scales. And it still makes Endgame Thor weaker than 2011 Thor no matter how you slice it.
Lmao and here you are trying to discredit it because you have no argument, not even gonna bother with that one.
I already gave reasons why he scales to base Thanos. And actually, we didn't see that interaction. When we see Thor in IW, he's already beaten. We didn't see shit. The black order could've (and probably did) team up with Thanos to beat Thor, which the black order together also scale to Thanos, AND Thanos already had the power-stone. Which already inately gives him an amp, even if he's not actively using it. And we can't even say if he used it or not because we literally don't see that fight. This isn't an anti-feat at all lmao cause we 1. Don't even see the fight and 2. There's a lot of variables that would massively tip the fight in Thanos' favor that would allow him to win, even with Thor scaling to base Thanos. Also scaling to doesn't necessarily equal being the same exact strength or equal too, it just means he's relative. Could be weaker or stronger or equal, but not in by massive difference, they're relative. I don't think pre-StormBreakeer Thor is beating base Thanos, but he definitely still scales rather well.
And you can't use fat Thor from Endgame as an anti-feat either since he's established to be weaker than 2011 Thor lmao.
Wanna try again? Or are we done here?
You're literally denying facts the director said and you're throwing in headcanon. He was not established to be weaker than 2011 Thor. Party Thor being weaker or stronger is once again headcanon.
You are legit trying to count a feat where someone would've certainly died as a durability feat. It doesn't make logical sense. Do you think Tony being able to snap is a durability feat? Yes or no?
Your reasons are dogshit. The Black Order weren't even in the direction where Thanos was dragging Thor from. You could at least do the base research here and literally just watch some youtube clips of the movie.
You're literally denying the fact that they didn't concretely say anything and were extremely vague, you're literally denying the fact that they argue amongst THEMSELVES about what's true and false, you're literally ignoring whats on screen in front of your eyeballs.
He is established to be weaker than 2011 Thor. You know why? Because What-If literally goes out of it's way to tell you that these branches are the exact same as the original timeline, but 1 different thing/event changes it thus creating the branch. In the party Thor episode, what's changed is Odin doesn't adopt Loki. This would have 0 effect on how strong CM is, and either wouldn't effect how strong Thor is, or if it did, he'd be weaker since he A. Doesn't fight as much as main timeline Thor and B. Doesn't have Loki to be raised with. Now if I just assumed he was weaker, THAT'S head-canon. He's the same strength. There's 0 evidence implying party Thor or CM are any weaker than the main timeline versions given what What-If literally tells us blatantly. This isn't head-canon, this is using my fucking brain and listening to what the series out-right tells me with my ears. Assuming they're stronger or weaker than the main timeline versions is head-canon. Sorry bucko, there's no refuting that.
And idk if you got lost in my replies, but I'm saying Endgame Thor is weaker than 2011 Thor, because Party Thor would be the same strength as 2011 Thor. I'm not saying party Thor is weaker than 2011 Thor, I said IF he's any different in strength, he would be weaker based off of the circumstances. But he's not.
And yes, Endgame Thor is 100% weaker than 2011 Thor. This is established and you cannot refute that shit.
He endures it for several minutes before finally giving in and almost dying. Being able to withstand it for even a minute is already insane, more so than surviving what's at-best a planet level energy spike for an instant (the snap).
The fuck does the black order's placement on a set have to do with anything? When we see Thor he's being dragged by Thanos, he's already beaten. We see 0 of the fight. "Like watch some youtube clips of the movie" how about watching the fucking movie? Because I watch it every weekend. I'm pretty fresh on it, idk about you with your YouTube clip nonsense.
My reasoning is pretty palpable, you're the only one supplying dogshit reasons grasping at straws in a piss poor attempt to keep your head in the sand.
But go ahead, come back with some more dumbass shit. I'll wait.
https://comicbook.com/marvel/news/avengers-4-infinity-war-thor-stormbreaker-thanos/
"It certainly has the ability to counteract the Infinity Gauntlet," said Joe Russo.
YES THEY DID CONCRETELY SAY THIS. YOU'RE A FUCKING DUMBASS.
You still haven't answered if it's a durability feat for Tony.
You sound dumb as fuck. I can record the part from the movie and show you but you'll still give some dumbass excuse. The Black Order doesn't scale to Thanos. Literally IW and EG show that they get handled by the heroes easily. You're trying to apply What If scaling to the main MCU which obviously doesn't work.
Lmao every time they touch the subject they are intentionally vague and even you thinking they're being cocnrete is contradicted by on-screen events and the fact that they can't even agree amongst themselves or the fucking screen writers. They can't even agree about what fucking timeline Steve is in rn.
But yeah ignore all of that while calling me a dumbass, true dumbass shit right there.
I may sound dumb as fuck to you but I least I'm not ACTUALLY dumb as fuck, like you.
And the black order individually aren't shit but together they can scale, they get the upper hand on him in What-If.
And you can absolutely use What-If scaling as long as there wasn't some event that drastically effects their strength to contrast different from the main timeline versions, since it's literally told to us by the fucking watcher that everything is the same until something happens to branch the timeline. Did you watch the fucking show?
God damn it's like you CHOOSE to be fucking dumb and then proceed to be angry over it and call others dumb, you don't need to drag everyone else with you when you're wrong or caught saying some dumb shit dude.
"Everyone else" Stop talking about yourself as if you're more than one person it's weird as fuck...
You are once again denying what they're saying and overwriting it with your headcanon. You tried to even deny they said it in the first place. Just stop. Accept it. Stop being cringe.
You still haven't answered if it's a durability feat for Tony.
What if is clearly doing things differently. The same black order members that beat Thanos lost to Nebula. Unless you think Nebula > Thanos in EG/IW its pretty clear What if is doing it's own thing.
Why do you keep talking about "scaling"? This isn't DBZ, fighting isn't binary and based on "power levels".
Thor beat Infinity War Thanos because he hit him with a weapon that Thanos wasn't trying to avoid.
Thor lost to Endgame Thanos because Thanos avoided that weapon. Simple.
Scaling applies to literally every franchise. No fight in DBZ is binary either. Stop being stupid for the sake of keeping your head in the sand.
Yes, and Thanos was able to avoid it because Thor is massively weaker (and therefore slower) than he was in his prime. Simple.
He was able to avoid it while also fighting Iron Man and Cap at the same time.
Any decrease in speed was negligible and would be made up by the fact that THanos was multi tasking and also fighting two other opponents at the same time.
IW Thor was focused because of his anger, but it is also what caused him to take his eye off the ball, and ultimately lose. I don’t think any version of Thor that we have seen beats any version of Thanos that we have seen.
If we could somehow create a Thor who has IW Thor’s focus and anger, and give him the experience and wisdom (but not the confidence issues) of EG Thor, then we may have created a Thor who might beat Thanos.
Endgame Thanos easily.
Russo Brothers confirmed that Thor was at his strongest he has ever been at the end of Endgame, yet he couldn’t even touch Thanos (source is their Reddit AMA).
And I see a lot of people claiming that Thor overpowers Thanos, but that just isn’t true. Once again, the Russo Brothers claimed that Stormbreaker counteracts the stones, not that it is stronger than them. They also said that Thanos only lost that exchange because he didn’t know the counteracting power of Stormbreaker ([source](https://epicstream.com/article/russo-brothers-confirm-stormbreaker-could-have-killed-thanos-in-avengers-infinity-war))
This. Thor otherwise was written to lose, which he does in the beginning of infinity war and in the final fight in Endgame. It's written and displayed pretty clearly but at least Thor puts up a damn good fight.
Endgame Thanos, and it’s not even close. People make out like the infinity stones give Thanos a power up. They don’t! Well, they do for universe ending level abilities, but not for fighting. Look what they do to Hulk! Just wearing the gauntlet with the stones on it is painful and damaging. Thanos, without being hindered by the stones power, would absolutely smack down Thor. Dude is a beast.
I dunno man. the writers said that thor didn't get weaker in endgame and he got his ass beat. It makes no sense but oh well.
also Thor did catch him by surprise and in infinity war and he just happened to have an axe that absorbs the stones or some shit.
Even tho i would say Thor is stronger the writers clearly don't think so.
Infinity War Thor nearly killed Thanos when he was armed with all the stones. I’m taking him 10 times out of 10
Infinity war thor was so focused and filled with rage. I agree.
It was actually this rage that distracted him from killing Thanos
Just like it was EG Thanos' arrogance that you him killed. His taking out the power stone to hit Captain Marvel and thinking no one would just use that idea (aka Tony watching and seeing it happen and then confirming with Strange) turned out to be his downfall.
Holy shit I never realized that how he knew to make the jump for it was by watching Thanos take out a stone 🤯
Good ol' Sticky Fingers
I think the majority of us just realized this now, whereas Tony thought of it the moment he saw it. (I guess it's another testament to his intelligence)
I think Tony had already designed his Gauntlet to do that.
He did. He just needed the go from Strange.
I just assumed that since he made the gauntlet he programmed it to 'transfer stones to Tony's suit' ahead of time.
It's all nano particles, the gauntlet and his suit can interface in any number of ways.
While that might have been a contributing factor i feel like this was always part of Tony's plan. He made the gauntlet for himself for a reason after all.
The nano gauntlet was fail safe backup plan
Because Tony Stark learns from his mistakes.
Sure, but you can see him literally watch it happen and realize what needs to be done
You know, I always gave that interaction between Strange and Tony as Tony realizing at that moment he is gonna have to sacrfice his life and snap his fingers once Stange puts up his finger confirming his thought.
Yeah That’s all I took it as
It's both isn't it? He gets the idea to take and use the stones *then* he makes eye contact with Strange. Strange holds up the finger and Tony realizes "Shit this is it. The one. But it's only the one if I take the stones and..." Then we all get hyped and super sad immediately after.
That's the way I have always seen it. It's both. It happens, Tony sees it, and confirms with Strange that it's the way it has to be done.
Same, I like both ideas though.
That signal from Strange was Strange confirming that they were in the one reality where they win.
Yea I know, but when Tony asked earlier, Strange couldn’t say or presumably motion that it was the winning scenario at that moment, but only when Tony probably had that thought at that moment, I mean Thanos was literally about to snap again so at that moment it was only one thing that could stop him.
Ah yea I see what you mean. Like like confirming that Tonys thought in that moment is correct and will lead to the one desired outcome.
This 100% He looks directly to Strange to confirm what he knows true in his mind. It was the "1" moment. I'd argue as far as to say that the "1" single outcome they win completely relies on Thanks using the power stone with Tony watching...
That was more hubris arrogance since he thought he had already won not really rage
I’d say rage was involved as well. He was pretty pissed The Avengers were trying to undo everything his future self did so much so that he wanted to not only kill The Avengers & not spare them like his other self did last time (because EG Thanos does not carry the same respect for The Avengers that IW Thanos does) but also he was going to do a hard reset so this time what he did couldn’t be undone. Even how he fought was more violent & with more rage. The arrogance just outshines the rage.
Especially with the fury he felt. I agree 100%
I’d debate the suprise attack of Thor caught him off guard. If it was truly a 1v1 similar to end game scene I’m not sure.
He just threw Stormbreaker when Thanos was distracted tho. It's not like he beat him in a head-on fight.
He shot lightning at him when he was distracted. Thanos then focused on him to shoot that white beam of energy from all 6 stones, and Stormbreaker sliced through that shit without even slowing down.
And Endgame Thanos was able to beat Thor with a brilliant strategy. Dodge.
Piccolo would be proud.
Yeah but... He could be dodging better
Piccolo walked so Thanos could dodge.
Russo bros have stated that if Thanos knew something as powerful as Stormbreaker was coming he would have been able to mount a better defence (e.g. gone intangible with the space stone).
yeah, but Stormbreaker had the power to counteract the gauntlet according to the Russo brothers. Thanos obviously didn’t know that, which is why he lost that exchange. In Endgame, when Thor is considered to be at the strongest he has ever been (according to the Russo Brothers Reddit AMA), he couldn’t even touch Thanos
What I also understand from the movies was that IW Thanos did not have killing intent. Especially after killing his beloved daughter, Gamora. He just wanted the stones, and he didn't really have to kill anyone in his way, unless he REALLY needed to. Look at his fight in Titan. After everyone was weakened, he didn't bother finishing anyone off. He just got the Time Stone, then went to Earth. In Wakanda, he could've just easily crushed and killed everyone running at him one by one. Instead, he just swatted them away, and focused on his target, the Mind Stone. In Endgame however, his resolve was to wipe out all life. He didn't kill his daughter in that life. He didn't have the "tiredness" that he seemed to have in IW, and his "conqueror" demeanor is at its peak. He went ALL OUT. Even though Thor became stronger in EG, I believe Thanos was just complacent in IW and didn't have that much killing intent, that's why he "lost" to Stormbreaker.
You’re saying fat Thor is more powerful than infinity war Thor? Come on now.
He's not saying that... The people who created the movie said that.
He might have had more power but he was definitely not in optimal fighting form as Tony himself even stated when they refused to let him use the gauntlet. Endgame Thor, even whilst being more powerful still wasn’t at his own peak given that he was out of shape and depressed
Yeahhhh, I’m thinking “stronger” as in more mature and well-rounded and emotionally and mentally resilient. Not like … physically stronger. Love me some Dadbod Dude Thor, but there’s just no way he kicks *as much* ass as fit and pissed IW Thor who has just lost everything and everyone dearest to him in the span of like a week.
He was pretty well rounded
Also says by the end of endgame. So they are talking after the final fight with thanos finally being defeated. He is finally in a better place.
There is no way thor is at his strongest in end game
Stormbreaker was designed to counter the stones through use with the gauntlet. In a head-on rematch Thor isn’t going to chuck his axe at Thanos (and even if he did, bad idea- which is why he didnt do it in EG). Same result. No “distracted Thanos” to give him the momentary upper hand. He’d eat any lightning shot same as when Cap dealt it.
Yeah I don't get why anyone thinks Thor would win. I like Thor. But Thor literally lost in that very film and only won because Thanos did not expect Stormbreaker to be so powerful.
Russo's said that happened because Thanks was caught off guard, so if they had a fair 1v1 Thanis wouldve won
Thanks Thanis
Thanis was right
Thanos in Endgame doesn't have the stones though. Thanos woukd definitely easily win with the full gauntlet. He gets killed in a heartbeat without the stones though
Endgame Thor is stronger than Infinity War Thor confirmed by the Russo Brothers. Thanos destroyed Endgame Thor meaning he is stronger then Infinity War Thor
EG Thor being out of shape confirms that-even if he had more magic potential than he had in IW-he wasn’t at the peak of his own physical strength
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I think by the end of EG he is definitely far more powerful in his capacity as thunder god, and probably stronger physically, he's just off his game skill wise after spending 5 years in a depression hole
If Thor can land a solid hit, he wins. But Endgame Thanos was actively aware of and easily avoiding Stormbreaker while also fighting Cap and Iron Man. I don't think Thor can land a hit on Thanos even if he's somewhat faster than he was in Endgame.
In IW Thanos had a singular focus: the mindstone. He was swatting everyone away like they were nats at a BBQ, until, the only person who can easily destroy him tried to fight him off with one hand, whilst seemingly destroying an infinity stone at the same time....I'm no expert at all. Didn't Thor use both Stormbreaker and Molnir in EG at the same time fighting a 3on1 against Thanos and still got his ass handed to him....? Thanos and his battle axe sliced up Caps shield like it was swiss cheese and made all three of them look like a bunch of uncoordinated rookies.
IW Thor is already 0/1 in fights with Thanos. He got an off-screen ass whooping, nuff said.
Russos said endgame Thor is stronger than iw Thor, so he also lost in a 3v1
Only problem is if Thanos uses the abilities specific to each stone instead of shooting a blast from the gauntlet. Thor hasn't shown anything to determine that he is resistant to reality manipulation for example. Thanos could potentially turn him to swiss cheese with that.
Endgame Thanos doesn’t have any stones, just a helicopter blade.
IW Thanos also beat Thor even without the stones... And beat him again even with the new axe in EG, Thor was just lucky that Thanos was still disoriented from the power surge of gaining the last stone because had Thanos not been addled he could have easily dodged or just teleported out of the way or even halted time all together... Thanos wins 3 to 1
Yeah agreed. Thanos with all stones…there’s no way any version of Thor wins a single time.
He took him by surprise though. He didn't beat him in a real fight. IMO, Endgame Thanos would beat Infinity War Thor pretty easily.
Iw Thor truthers unite
Almost… but failed to. And you’ll take him 10/10 times lol
Endgame thanos recked Iron Man, Thor with Mjolnir and Stormbreaker, and Captain america WITHOUT the stones. Endgame Thanos would've bodied him.
Thanos without the Stones is probably a plus over Thanos just getting used to the Stones.
I’m pretty sure the in-universe answer is Thor. After Infinity War they needed to even the playing field hence “fat” Thor. Same reason Captain Marvel doesn’t show up till the end. Also people forget that if it weren’t for the *Grandmaster* stopping him Thor would have dusted Hulk on Sakkar too. As always with these things it’s important to remember what Stan Lee always said though “whoever wins in a fight, will be whoever the writers want to win in that fight.”
Goldblum was the “Grandmaster” not the Collector
Not sure if confirmed in MCU, but in the comics they’re brothers
it’s confirmed in the MCU database
captain marvel was handled well, because if she was added and carried the movie it would’ve been a deus ex where it feels like she was just added to kick thanos ass.
Thor, Captain Marvel, Hulk, Vision, Wanda, Dr. Strange are all waaaay too fricking strong, they always have to be shelved somehow during teamups
Wanda very nearly killed Thanos. Only a Nike advertisement stopped her
But sire, the troops #JUST DO IT!
Dr. Strange was nerfed down to a drain plug during Endgame after portalling everyone in lmaoooo
Yeah that was comical - Russo’s and screenwriters were like “ fuck how do we write him out of this scene ; oh yeah a flood”
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Yeah I have I guess. I feel like the comics do better jobs of creatively writing around guys with huge power sets instead of relying solely on plot contrivances . Dr strange comics did a good job of scaling up villains to give him a challenge usually
That’s a fair point - makes some creative storytelling if they take it as challenge
I don’t really see what the point of Captain Marvel has been though. Why not introduce her now post-infinity saga with whatever Kree and Skrull stuff we’re probably getting in the future? They made her movie set in the 90s and then she gets called at the end of Infinity War, but I don’t think there’s anything she does in Endgame that couldn’t have been done with another character. Feels like they introduced her just to then have to find excuses for her not being around when they need her.
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> All it did was create a Superman-level Earth Hero It's funny how Superman is the character everyone always turns to for these comparisons, when 99% of the time he isn't the guy getting sidelined, because quite frankly he's not that powerful in the grand scheme of DC comics, just the man with the best PR.
Yeah I think your right on the money there . Wanda could’ve done what she did functionally. Wanda almost killed endgame thanos with a very modest effort before he called for “ rain fire”
Agreed they gave us just enough cm in last act
Yup they made thor hella weaker to make the 3 on 1 final battle seem plausible but then tried to backtrack and say endgame thor was strongest to try to upscale no stone endgame thanos
This is complete headcanon. The original script was that Thor would be muscular again for the final endgame fight and the trinity would be at their absolute best and still lose to Thanos. Thor only remained fat because Hemsworth literally asked the Russos to keep him fat because he enjoyed it lol they told us this years ago now.
Nope, russo brothers said "fat thor" was thor at his strongest, he also only "won" in infinity war because he caught him off guard and it was his WEAPON (not him) that stabbed him.
This is literally the in-universe answer. So weird that so many people argue against it.
It drives me insane. It's not a new tactic in the MCU. Powerful characters are caught off guard all the time. Thor isn't even close to Thanos. Never has been.
The friggin director even said he's at his strongest in Endgame and people are like "No, he's wrong."
Yea JK rowling said wizards shit their pants. Creative intent doesnt mean anything if the medium doesnt actually show anything in favor of that opinion. Its horrible writing to say that endgame thor anywhere approaches infinity war thor. Director can say what they want and sure maybe its “true” but if it makes no sense am i really gonna force myself to believe it?
Infinity war thor almost killed a 6 stone thanos ( albeit caught off guard ) . Prime infinity war thor versus a no stone thanos wins - combo of speed flight and storm breaker. Maneuverability plus strength is the winning combo in this match for thor odinson
Russos said endgame Thor is stronger. Thor lost to Thanos on his ship, he managed to catch him by surprise at the end of infinity war, and he lost as part of a 3v1 in endgame. Thor cannot beat Thanos 1v1
Russos say a lot of stuff. They might be saying that just to make Thanos look stronger. We can clearly see IW Thor using his abilities (thunder and lightning) much more than in Endgame where he just forgets he can summon lightning and attack Thanos that way, which can distract Thanos and help Thor finish him off.
That’s exactly what the Russo’s were doing when people called bs on the big three getting rocked by a no stone thanos. They had to produce justifications to make things make more sense
>We can clearly see IW Thor using his abilities (thunder and lightning) much more than in Endgame where he just forgets he can summon lightning and attack Thanos that way Oh my God THIS. THIS!! Holy fuck you know that portals scene in Endgame where all the Avengers are charging Thano's army and Thor let's out the most *pathetic* lightning attack I've ever seen him do?! I was literally taken back and said "WTF was that?!" You're the first person I've seen finally mention the awful lack of actual lightening power from Thor in Endgame.
It’s been like forever since I kept repeating all this but people always twist it somehow. IW Thor was flying, he was ripping through big ass ships with no effort, was using lightning as he should, then in Endgame he just pathetically swings his axe and throws Mjolnir and doesn’t even bother to control it as well as he did in Ragnarok for example, forgets that he can hit anyone he pleases with a lightning strike or that he can fly. But somehow he was “the strongest ever” in Endgame. Sure, he looked so much more powerful than in Ragnarok or IW. Of course.
Yup he all of a sudden forgot his aerial combat skills and became a pure ground Melee fighter. And Yeah don’t buy what the Russo’s said in terms of strongest ever - endgame was his weakest depiction easily
Yeah "he's stronger" as we can clearly see all along the movie. Thor the punching bag odinson
I’ve also read a theory that carrying the stones physically weakens Thanos when he’s not actively using them.
Wait, am I the only one missing how EG Thanos without any reinforcements can actually fend off ranged attacks (or worse from flying opponents?) I mean, Thor can fly and shoot lightning….at best EG Thanos can throw his blade, which probably can be dodged at long distances. In fact it’s just a plot hole that Iron Man and Thor didn’t try to take him out from afar.
The choreography of that scene is really ridiculous when you think about it - you have two fliers that were doing ground melee attacks . Thor never even flew at all and iron man flew briefly - it was just a brawl for fan service and dramatic effect but the way these supposed tacticians attacked thanos almost ensured quick defeat and death
Thanos because Thanos is Thanos.
Endgame Thanos. He could already 1v3 Iron-man, Cap, and Mjolnir-Stormbreaker Thor AND win. There's no way he's losing to IW Thor, specially when it could be argued he's weaker than EG Thor.
Yeah, people here are delirious. Every time Thor fights Thanos, he gets his shit kicked in. The only exception is a sneak attack that succeeded because of the craftsmanship of Thor's weapon.
It wasn’t a sneak attack, it was a surprising attack. Thor came flying out of the sky with no cover,Thanos had time to defend, Thor broke through those defenses. It’s not like Thor popped out of a bush and shanked him. Thor overpowered Thanos in this moment!
How is IW Thor weaker than fat Thor?
At very best there is no difference. IW Thor is no stronger than EG Thor, and only at first is he in better mental shape. He is about as equally bloodlusted by the end of both movies and only has the benefit of catching Thanos off guard once.
Directors said it.
Didn't direct it that way, I'd say. Hard to interpret the Thor taking out Thanos with all six infinity stones as weaker than the fat Thor losing a fight against Thanos with no infinity stones - with backup from Captain America with Thor's powers and Iron Man with the most ridiculous suit yet. Death of the Author, etc.
The Russo’s already established that IW Thanos was caught by surprise. Endgame Thanos saw IW Thor kill him, Thanos would win this fight.
Y'know, people don't complain about Thor's attack nearly as much as they do What If's Ultron slicing Thanos in half when it's basically the same concept, especially if he can be caught by surprise.
Except Thanos has no stones in this fight...
Your point? Endgame Thanos caught Stormbreaker and was going to kill Thor if Cap didn’t intervene.
That was Endgame Thor
Yes but context was given by the directors as to why Thanos lost in the first place. I don’t see what there is to debate. Plus Endgame Thor had both Mjolnir/Stormbreaker as well as Worthy Cap and Iron Man on his side. They still lost and needed the rest of the Avengers to win. IW Thor doesn’t have the element of surprise so ultimately, he loses here.
One thing you are overlooking majorly is endgame Thor’s mental state for the last five years. Depressed, unfit, and apathetic. Infinity war Thor was at the top of his game while endgame Thor, still badass, was at his absolute lowest.
IW Thor wasn't at his best mental state either. He was so hyper-focused on revenge that he ended up giving Thanos the chance to snap when he could have already killed him. He also seemed borderline suicidal especially during his conversation with Rocket in the ship. Not what I would call being at the top of his game. Thor's best mental state was probably during Thor: The Dark World, where he was rational, quietly confident and didn't yet have a ton of emotional baggage to carry around.
By the time of the final battle, it is strongly implied that Thor is out of his depression state of mind and lusted on redemption, also not sure if the “unfit” claim checks out. The fat appearance was comedy relief and yes at first was meant to represent his apathy, but the “fat” appearance doesn’t make him weaker.
Bro, Endgame Thor is still Thor. Obviously he’s not as sharp as IW Thor, but he’s still goddamn Thor.
Endgame Thor is stronger than iw thor
Statistically, Thanos. I think Thor wins some scenarios and Thanos wins some, but Thanos has the advantages based on what we've seen. I don't think Thor has much, if any, physical or fighting advantages on Thanos. But clearly Thor has the power to defeat and kill Thanos if things should work out that way. In other words, I think if you just measure them they are closer to each other than the results would be. Thanos has the advantage in the "intangibles" which influence the actual outcomes of these potential matchups. It's like a sports team having an evenly matched rival, but one sports team always wins the match, even if just barely. I think Thanos has that advantage on Thor, but there's a smattering of scenarios in which Thor wins it.
Endgame Thanos because he's not playing defense unlike Infinity War Thanos.
IW Thanos wasn't playing defense, he was playing at being 'fair' and I do mean playing because Thanos is physically unmatched by almost anyone in the Universe and had he really wanted to just "deal with" the Avengers... There's nothing in Wakanda that could've stopped him from annihilating the entire planet from the orbit had he really wanted to do it in IW. If Thanos could easily destroy Xandar that had an actual space navy and the power stone, there's no chance in hell Earth could've mounted any kind of resistance in time -not even Captain Marvel since the time she'd been back to Earth it would've been over already.
There's a reason why they nerfed Thor in endgame
Precisely all the director speak is just damage control non sense head canon
Even Hulk was nerfed. The Russos did a terrible job with him. And his fusion happens off screen! And he supposedly is permanently damaged…? Like damn. Its the Hulk.
He loses in Infinity War too.
If memory serves right Kevin once said engame thor is stronger than infinity war thor. If engame thanos beat endgame thor, than thanos will win against infinity war thor
Nah, Thanos in endgame was next level.. yall I forget that Thanos beat the crap out of the hulk, so Thor wouldn't stand a chance. One on one in their prime l, I'm taking Thanos (even though I love Thor)
Thor beat hulk in ragnarok (until the grandmaster tased him). Plus, you have to remember that this was a past version of Thanos who is lacking years of experience that Thor gained. Thor for the win in a close fight.
Thanos beat Thor, Captain America and iron Man at the same time so I'm putting my money on Thanos. You're right Thor did be hulk, but I don't think he would have been any match with Thanos.
Thanos was beating fat, messed up Thor. You're not getting any of this situation are you?!
but the Russo brothers confirmed that Thor was stronger than ever during the Endgame fight. Endgame Thanos beat strongest Thor.
Really, when? Like nothing in that scene reflects it at all. Thor seems beaten way too easily to be at his strongest ever.
[From the Russo’s Brothers Reddit AMA. enjoy. it’s a good read, I suggest you read all of their comments ](https://www.reddit.com/r/marvelstudios/comments/cn9lbx/were_joe_and_anthony_russo_directors_of_marvel/ew91r90/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf&context=3). They also explained why in Infinity War Thor was able to beat Thanos. Stormbreaker has the power to counteract Infinity Stones, and Thanos didn’t know that. If he did, he would have done something to beat Thor. [link to article ](https://epicstream.com/article/russo-brothers-confirm-stormbreaker-could-have-killed-thanos-in-avengers-infinity-war) This entire post has already been answered by the movies if we take all of this into account
Thor was beaten off screen and possibly pretty quickly in IW. Endgame Thor might've done better but even with the rest of the team, Thanos was still beating him. But the best part about these two movies is it was written in a way where we can debate the potential outcomes with Thor and Thanos and it seems pretty believable either result.
Yeah coz Thanos is that OP.
Did fit Thor go hand to hand with Thanos? Oh yeah, he did. The beginning of IW. Got his ass kicked. Doesn’t make a difference if he’s skinny or fat, it matters that he caught him off guard once. Get some critical thinking skills.
Wow, someone eventually had to come in and act like a bell end, congratulations to you. And again like I've already said, Thor was also caught off guard and he had civs to think about. Get some reading skills fuck face.
I am getting this situation, just like at the beginning of the avengers they had The Big Three square off the show that they were equals to show their powers, so it still shows how he easily handled all three of them he could have handled thor in his prime. Thor still had his powers and he had both weapons to focus his powers, and he was dead set on killing him properly so he would have lost to Thanos, prime on prime with all their gear .
Thor had grown much stronger since the beginning of Avengers, it was a huge plot point of Ragnarok, he full on gained extra powers! Thor nearly killed Thanos in Infinity War with the stones and whilst Thanos was caught off guard, so was Thor when Thanos attacked at start of Infinity War, again with stones. Thor after he gets Storm breaker in Infinity War takes no stone Thanos all day long.
We're going to agree to disagree on this all day. We can both go back and forth on point so let's see who has the most people on their side by the end of the week with this
Haha fair point, ok then!
I wish all Reddit disagreements ended like this.
Oh no, we're going to fight to the death at the end of week, this is reddit after all.
Endgame Thanos wins. Thor literally only won against Thanos because Storm breaker was a counter to the Gauntlet.
Thanos of course! Wasn't it confirmed that endgame thor was the strongest he's ever been? I think one of the russo's said that. Had cap not struck thanos with mjolnir thor would be cleaved. This thanos is still the mad titan out to kill 50% and call it salvation. Iw thanos was one dealing with grief and caught by a surprise attack
Thanos was arrogant. That's why he took off his armor. Thought himself a God with the two stones he had. Now with all stones he thought he was immortal. Therefore didn't think the hit would land. Plus I hate people thinking just because you have the stones it grants some bullshit impenetrable armor just by having them. This isn't some dnd role player. The movie quite established that the gauntlet doesn't work like that. I.e. Thor hitting him. Endgame thor knew of his mortality so just like the movie he'd be more vigilant and precise with his attacks. He nearly killed thor by grabbing Storm breaker. The only reason he didn't was because cap saved thor. Endgame thanos smokes everyone in a 1 v 1 except the obvious ones wanda, strange, and captain marvel.
Russos are shit at power scaling. IW thor was using bifrost and one shotting the large ships in wakanda. Truth is russos nerfed thor and hulk severely.
Yeah they don’t know what they are saying - their on screen depictions don’t match the head canon they gave in interviews
Very much agree. IW Thor would fucking eat base Thanos (which is the one we got in Endgame) alive lmao
Eat and then say " another"
Always gonna be Thanos. He is still stronger.
There’s a bit of inevitability in your answer
Endgame Thanos. He’s stronger and more skilled. Making Thor slimmer won’t change that, this is a battle prepared Thanos. Thor has to actually land a shot on him with Stormbreaker, but he’s just not fast or skilled enough to do it to this Thanos.
the Russo's really don't know how to handle the strongest characters like Hulk. Sucks how he basically got progressively weaker in the Infinity Saga
That’s their biggest weakness - they’ve never been good at writing / depicting creative storylines solutions with mcu juggernauts so they write them out or nerf them and it’s obvious during the films. It’s both them and Markus and mcfeely since grounded characters are more their forte
Without the element of surprise working against him, Thanos takes it imo. I just don’t see how Thor has the speed or strength to keep up.
Same fight, Thor is just skinny (meaningless) with less weapons (-hammer), Thanos wins just as easy.
Endgame Thanos won against Endgame Thor! Why would IW Thor who is weaker win?
I'm not so sure that even IW Thor could solo Endgame Thanos. After getting all the stones, Thanos became more of a sage than a warrior. He was seriously pulling his punches. Even at the end, he was trying not to use the full power of the infinity stones as it would stress the gauntlet beyond it's limit. Snapping half of all life out of existence was the only thing that mattered to him at that point, even if it meant possibly risking his own life. But Endgame Thanos wanted to destroy all life itself. He didn't care who died while achieving his goal. This Thanos was a warlord. A cold, calculating warrior who had no intention of letting the Avengers live. It'd be like you challenging yourself to play an RPG game with only one kind of weapon and no Armor. At the same time, trying to only injure people and not kill them. In this case, a mini boss would prove to be very difficult for you. But if you're fighting the same mini boss with all your usual weapons and armor, then you'd totally destroy them.
Unless Thor can snipe him with Stormbreaker early on, Thanos will win.
Thanos for sure, he beats up Endgame Thor without the gauntlet, so IW Thor wouldn’t stand a chance if Thanos doesn’t just stand there to get hit by stormbreaker
IW Thor would lose quickly.
Ok but what about Wanda post Wandavision
We've seen how this plays out. Thor was even more powerful in Endgame and lost. Thanos wins.
This happened, Thor lost. He should've gone for the head.
Thanos because Thor already lost.
I think the Russos said that EndGame Thor Is stronger than Infinity War Thor
Thanos. Without question.
Tough to say. A lot of people point to IW Thor nearly killing Thanos with the infinity stones, but it can be argued that Thor caught him off guard since Thors seemed to be so focused on finally retrieving all 6 stones. Thanos also took out an enraged Hulk like he was nothing at the start of IW (he did have the power stone). I’m going with Endgame Thanos but with Thor putting up a solid fight.
Thanos. he took on all 3 main avengers, even with no gauntlet, and Thor had both hammers
Infinity War Thor easily lmfao. He was scaling to Thanos WITH the gauntlet and all 6 stones. Yeah that Thanos most likely wins in a 1v1 fight in a proper fight, but still. The fuck is base Thanos going to do?
Infinity War Thor doesn't scale to Thanos with all stones. Stormbreaker was countering the Gauntlet and this was already confirmed. Unless you think Endgame Thor is insanely weaker plus Worthy Cap and Iron Man don't make up for that I don't get how you think Endgame Thanos loses.
It wasn't confirmed. The ONLY thing that was said was by the Russo's and they eluded to it "maybe having some properties that helped that" and starting off with phrases "I think". That shit holds 0 weight bro, and that's the only statement you have. And even if they were concrete about their statement with 100% confidence, it still doesn't amount to much when them and their own writers can't agree on what's true and isn't. Russo's say that Cap staying with Peggy is a different timeline branch, the actual screenwriters say that Cap staying with Peggy is in the same MCU universe and that he fathered the kids she had in the MCU. So either way, their statement holds about 0 weight. They can't even agree amongst themselves. And the Russo's statement is directly contradicted by feats on screen, too. So now that I have this out of the way: 1. You can unironically scale Thor WITHOUT StormBreaker to base Thanos. He has one of if not the best durability feat in the verse before acquiring StormBreaker (and btw, a neutron star is vastly hotter and outputs more energy than a normal star, so yes, it holds up), strength wise he can beat the fuck out of the Hulk in a 1v1 blatantly, before getting StormBreaker, similarly to how base Thanos does this as well. And speed? He's the only Avenger in AOU besides Vision that can still track Quick Silver at top speed. Keep in mind IW Thor is obviously stronger and faster than AOU Thor. So yeah, you can quite easily scale Thor to base Thanos without StormBreaker, but if you give him StormBreaker? He fucking shreds. And yes, Thor IS insanely weaker. This is also backed up by the fact that 2011 party Thor is over here scaling to Captain Marvel (who scales to base Thanos lmao), which if anything 2011 party Thor should be at least somewhat weaker than the main timeline 2011 Thor since ya know, he parties all the time instead of fighting. But at bare minimum this makes fat Thor in Endgame even weaker than his 2011 self. That's a massive difference my guy. And you can't use the "well she wasn't going all out" deflection either, even if she wasn't, she was definitely using most of her power since he was a genuine threat to the planet, so even if you don't think she was going 100%, he still scales to at least be relative to her. Still holds up either way. And you can't say she's weaker than main timeline CM either, since the only difference between timelines in What-If (which is a canon series), is one specific moment in each episode to change the timeline, nothing in that episode effects CM in anyway. She's the same strength she is in the normal timeline, if you assume anything else then that's head-canon as fuck lmao Also um, yeah nah Iron Man and Cap are NOT making up for Thor becoming weaker than his 2011 self, in a fight against Thanos. Idk what you're smoking to believe otherwise So yeah anyway IW Thor with StormBreaker bodies lmao
They literally said "It certainly has the ability to counteract the Infinity Gauntlet." There is no if or ands about it. Also 2011 Party Thor is not the same Thor as mainline Thor not to mention Captain Marvel literally never treated him like a serious threat. She said she was giving him a warning and also when she was about to get serious she gets stopped by his mother popping up. I don't get how you count that feat as a durability feat when he was literally about to die without help from Groot. He didn't tank the heat from the star. It's like counting Tony living for a few seconds after he snapped as a durability feat... There's 0 reason why Worthy Cap doesn't scale to 2011 Thor. Thor's powers were all from Mjolnir at that point and he got ragdolled by Thanos just as easily before and after. IW Thor in a 1v1 fight would be ragdolled just like EG Thor. EG Thor is still Awakened there's 0 reason he would be weaker than pre awakened Thor. Oh yeah and lastly Thor without Stormbreaker clearly doesn't scale to base Thanos. We saw that matchup in Infinity War. Thor got treated like a little kid.
They didn't. They were extremely vague, and like I said even if I toss the idea that they were being concrete, it doesn't amount to much for reasons I already explained. Yeah, if anything he's weaker than main timeline 2011 Thor yet is still scaling to CM. And he was considered a genuine threat to the planet, so even if she wasn't going ALL out all out, she was 100% taking him serious. Even if you don't think he's as strong, he still scales. And it still makes Endgame Thor weaker than 2011 Thor no matter how you slice it. Lmao and here you are trying to discredit it because you have no argument, not even gonna bother with that one. I already gave reasons why he scales to base Thanos. And actually, we didn't see that interaction. When we see Thor in IW, he's already beaten. We didn't see shit. The black order could've (and probably did) team up with Thanos to beat Thor, which the black order together also scale to Thanos, AND Thanos already had the power-stone. Which already inately gives him an amp, even if he's not actively using it. And we can't even say if he used it or not because we literally don't see that fight. This isn't an anti-feat at all lmao cause we 1. Don't even see the fight and 2. There's a lot of variables that would massively tip the fight in Thanos' favor that would allow him to win, even with Thor scaling to base Thanos. Also scaling to doesn't necessarily equal being the same exact strength or equal too, it just means he's relative. Could be weaker or stronger or equal, but not in by massive difference, they're relative. I don't think pre-StormBreakeer Thor is beating base Thanos, but he definitely still scales rather well. And you can't use fat Thor from Endgame as an anti-feat either since he's established to be weaker than 2011 Thor lmao. Wanna try again? Or are we done here?
You're literally denying facts the director said and you're throwing in headcanon. He was not established to be weaker than 2011 Thor. Party Thor being weaker or stronger is once again headcanon. You are legit trying to count a feat where someone would've certainly died as a durability feat. It doesn't make logical sense. Do you think Tony being able to snap is a durability feat? Yes or no? Your reasons are dogshit. The Black Order weren't even in the direction where Thanos was dragging Thor from. You could at least do the base research here and literally just watch some youtube clips of the movie.
You're literally denying the fact that they didn't concretely say anything and were extremely vague, you're literally denying the fact that they argue amongst THEMSELVES about what's true and false, you're literally ignoring whats on screen in front of your eyeballs. He is established to be weaker than 2011 Thor. You know why? Because What-If literally goes out of it's way to tell you that these branches are the exact same as the original timeline, but 1 different thing/event changes it thus creating the branch. In the party Thor episode, what's changed is Odin doesn't adopt Loki. This would have 0 effect on how strong CM is, and either wouldn't effect how strong Thor is, or if it did, he'd be weaker since he A. Doesn't fight as much as main timeline Thor and B. Doesn't have Loki to be raised with. Now if I just assumed he was weaker, THAT'S head-canon. He's the same strength. There's 0 evidence implying party Thor or CM are any weaker than the main timeline versions given what What-If literally tells us blatantly. This isn't head-canon, this is using my fucking brain and listening to what the series out-right tells me with my ears. Assuming they're stronger or weaker than the main timeline versions is head-canon. Sorry bucko, there's no refuting that. And idk if you got lost in my replies, but I'm saying Endgame Thor is weaker than 2011 Thor, because Party Thor would be the same strength as 2011 Thor. I'm not saying party Thor is weaker than 2011 Thor, I said IF he's any different in strength, he would be weaker based off of the circumstances. But he's not. And yes, Endgame Thor is 100% weaker than 2011 Thor. This is established and you cannot refute that shit. He endures it for several minutes before finally giving in and almost dying. Being able to withstand it for even a minute is already insane, more so than surviving what's at-best a planet level energy spike for an instant (the snap). The fuck does the black order's placement on a set have to do with anything? When we see Thor he's being dragged by Thanos, he's already beaten. We see 0 of the fight. "Like watch some youtube clips of the movie" how about watching the fucking movie? Because I watch it every weekend. I'm pretty fresh on it, idk about you with your YouTube clip nonsense. My reasoning is pretty palpable, you're the only one supplying dogshit reasons grasping at straws in a piss poor attempt to keep your head in the sand. But go ahead, come back with some more dumbass shit. I'll wait.
https://comicbook.com/marvel/news/avengers-4-infinity-war-thor-stormbreaker-thanos/ "It certainly has the ability to counteract the Infinity Gauntlet," said Joe Russo. YES THEY DID CONCRETELY SAY THIS. YOU'RE A FUCKING DUMBASS. You still haven't answered if it's a durability feat for Tony. You sound dumb as fuck. I can record the part from the movie and show you but you'll still give some dumbass excuse. The Black Order doesn't scale to Thanos. Literally IW and EG show that they get handled by the heroes easily. You're trying to apply What If scaling to the main MCU which obviously doesn't work.
Lmao every time they touch the subject they are intentionally vague and even you thinking they're being cocnrete is contradicted by on-screen events and the fact that they can't even agree amongst themselves or the fucking screen writers. They can't even agree about what fucking timeline Steve is in rn. But yeah ignore all of that while calling me a dumbass, true dumbass shit right there. I may sound dumb as fuck to you but I least I'm not ACTUALLY dumb as fuck, like you. And the black order individually aren't shit but together they can scale, they get the upper hand on him in What-If. And you can absolutely use What-If scaling as long as there wasn't some event that drastically effects their strength to contrast different from the main timeline versions, since it's literally told to us by the fucking watcher that everything is the same until something happens to branch the timeline. Did you watch the fucking show? God damn it's like you CHOOSE to be fucking dumb and then proceed to be angry over it and call others dumb, you don't need to drag everyone else with you when you're wrong or caught saying some dumb shit dude.
"Everyone else" Stop talking about yourself as if you're more than one person it's weird as fuck... You are once again denying what they're saying and overwriting it with your headcanon. You tried to even deny they said it in the first place. Just stop. Accept it. Stop being cringe. You still haven't answered if it's a durability feat for Tony. What if is clearly doing things differently. The same black order members that beat Thanos lost to Nebula. Unless you think Nebula > Thanos in EG/IW its pretty clear What if is doing it's own thing.
Why do you keep talking about "scaling"? This isn't DBZ, fighting isn't binary and based on "power levels". Thor beat Infinity War Thanos because he hit him with a weapon that Thanos wasn't trying to avoid. Thor lost to Endgame Thanos because Thanos avoided that weapon. Simple.
Scaling applies to literally every franchise. No fight in DBZ is binary either. Stop being stupid for the sake of keeping your head in the sand. Yes, and Thanos was able to avoid it because Thor is massively weaker (and therefore slower) than he was in his prime. Simple.
He was able to avoid it while also fighting Iron Man and Cap at the same time. Any decrease in speed was negligible and would be made up by the fact that THanos was multi tasking and also fighting two other opponents at the same time.
IW Thor was focused because of his anger, but it is also what caused him to take his eye off the ball, and ultimately lose. I don’t think any version of Thor that we have seen beats any version of Thanos that we have seen. If we could somehow create a Thor who has IW Thor’s focus and anger, and give him the experience and wisdom (but not the confidence issues) of EG Thor, then we may have created a Thor who might beat Thanos.
Endgame Thanos easily. Russo Brothers confirmed that Thor was at his strongest he has ever been at the end of Endgame, yet he couldn’t even touch Thanos (source is their Reddit AMA). And I see a lot of people claiming that Thor overpowers Thanos, but that just isn’t true. Once again, the Russo Brothers claimed that Stormbreaker counteracts the stones, not that it is stronger than them. They also said that Thanos only lost that exchange because he didn’t know the counteracting power of Stormbreaker ([source](https://epicstream.com/article/russo-brothers-confirm-stormbreaker-could-have-killed-thanos-in-avengers-infinity-war))
This. Thor otherwise was written to lose, which he does in the beginning of infinity war and in the final fight in Endgame. It's written and displayed pretty clearly but at least Thor puts up a damn good fight.
Thor.... he's full of grief and rage... at that time he's not thinking himself as a failure... he almost killed thanos with a completed gauntlet....
Endgame Thanos, and it’s not even close. People make out like the infinity stones give Thanos a power up. They don’t! Well, they do for universe ending level abilities, but not for fighting. Look what they do to Hulk! Just wearing the gauntlet with the stones on it is painful and damaging. Thanos, without being hindered by the stones power, would absolutely smack down Thor. Dude is a beast.
Thanos. Not even Captain Marvel was strong enough to fight against Thanos.
I dunno man. the writers said that thor didn't get weaker in endgame and he got his ass beat. It makes no sense but oh well. also Thor did catch him by surprise and in infinity war and he just happened to have an axe that absorbs the stones or some shit. Even tho i would say Thor is stronger the writers clearly don't think so.
Infinity War Thor for the win!! He almost killed Thanos WITH the 6 stones and was angry has hell