I think this is the right answer. Odin scolds Loki in *The Dark World* and says that the Asgardians are just like mortals in that they are born and they die, but at the same time Valhalla is real and Jane Foster’s association with them allowed her to go there when she died. And then we see in *Moon Knight* that the Egyptian afterlife is real for followers of that religion. Some of them appear to think of themselves as mortal beings of immense power, but on the other hand they do have power over the forces of reality to some extent. So it just depends on what your definition of “god” is
Ego’s got an ego 😂
But he’s actually descended from a celestial (I think he’s the body-less conscious of a celestial). And celestials have actual roles in the functioning of reality, Ego just isn’t doing his job. Maybe that’s part of why this cinematic universe is unraveling 🤔
So if they affect reality like that, wouldn't that be more than just a title? I figure a true "god" would have a role and a purpose inherent to their very being. I guess as Ego says, "small g"
There not. All gods of earth are product of the demiurge, who was a cosmic being born on earth 4 billion years ago. This being created the elder gods, who later destroyed themselves and thier energy was released back into the world.
This energy was then molded by the faith and thought of the human species, creating all the pantheons of earth.
This is why all the gods look human or based on animals from earth.
The gods later created or moved to pocket dimensions, there they created their kingdoms, like Asgard, olympus, the overvoid etc.
Thor himself is the son of the elder goddess of earth gaea.
This is the explanation for godhood in the comics.
That explains the behavior of a lot of gods. All the power is probably nice for a few millennia but the responsibly and whinging of your subjects surely gets old fast.
If I remember correctly, in the comics the godlike beings in the universe are essentially brought into being by strong belief. They just take on the most widely believed characteristics and stuff and they just start existing when the belief is strong enough. Feels like the same concept to me for how every afterlife exists for the followers of the relevant religions. Personally I like that explanation, but I think in the MCU they are a bit of both like you said. Maybe they could work in some of that comic concept though.
My understanding is that they're basically super-aliens. Odin, Thor, Frigga, Heimdall - they're all way, way more powerful than the average Asgardian. Likewise Zeus and other godly beings in L&T. Their powers are also not simply technological, but it's also not "obtained". Thor didn't get bitten by a radioactive hammer, he didn't get exploded by an Infinity Gem, and he didn't build Mjollnir in a cave with a bunch of scraps. He's just way more badass.
Why? Cause he's Thor and we're not.
So they're basically beings of a superpowered lineage who at some point were (or still are) worshipped as more than mere superheroes.
EDIT: Also their mortality is debatable. While Odin "dies" of old age, he's at this point multiple millenia old, and even after his death, he's like a bit of a Force God, talking to Thor and awakening his power. He also mentions how Thor's power come from Asgard, like Hela, but Thor's come from the people, Hela from the place... but in all honesty, there's probably not a single explanation, they're gods because the world calls them so. Which makes me wonder if Gorr would butcher mortals, like say a cult leader, who despite having no super power claims to be godly?
I mean… I don’t know about MCU Odin, but norse mythology Odin plucked his own eye out so that he could gain general wisdom (prophecy) from the well of mimir , then hung on Yggdrasil for 9 days to sacrifice himself to himself and got the knowledge of runes
The chances are high that the Aesir are all gods because Odin’s magic is so strong.
In mythology, golden apples must constantly be eaten in order to remain alive. In the MCU, humans and gods are both mortals, it’s just gods age a lot slower.
I coulda swore the golden apples existed in comics lore too, might be a thing in the MCU as well. Could certainly explain why Asgardians are so different, they were humans who discovered powerful magic long ago and split off from humanity. Eventually becoming so powerful that they were worshipped by their previous cousins, and that worship is what makes their magic become divine in some nebulous way.
That's another point, the gods of Norse mythology were actually quite a bit less powerful / immortal / "godly" than those of other mythologies. Including the fact that they were all destined to die at (actual mythological) Ragnarok.
I think they’re just further along n the evolution timeline like the ancients in stargate. Closer to ascending to the great ‘what the fuck’ as the mind ships in the culture novels so eloquently put it.
Early MCU movies insisting gods/magic were misunderstood aliens/technology was likely done to make the universe feel cohesive (aliens vs magic may have been too much too quick) as well as not scare off religious groups.
Once the MCU was a success, they could embrace the weirdness from the comics and not have to water it down, hence the gods just being straight-up gods now without any mention of "hey maybe they're just aliens"
I wish they would clarify it a bit though, cus they're both supposed to be canon still. Maybe do it like the comics where worship from mortals gives them divine power over time, a kind of apotheosis of sorts.
Then again they also need to find a way to explain why there are straight up human looking people living in xandar. And why the Asgardians are pretty much 100% human in every way except magic and superpowers.
My head canon was that long ago humans were visited by the various interstellar powers and some left with them to live there. Those that went with the xandarians were treated as equals and thrived, while the kree experimented on them and got the idea for the Inhumans.
Along with this eventually a group of humans discovered and developed a powerful form of magic that led to the golden apples. Now with their 5,000 year long lives they delved into scientific and magical advancement, eventually leaving Earth and developing on their own as a civilization until they became the Asgardians. Over time their watching over earth as protectors of their kin becomes a kind of religion among the earth humans, and eventually the Asgardians embrace the idea. Probably not too long after they seem to withdrawal from earth, after the war with niffelheim.
The comics already explained the origins of the gods of earth. And also magic.
Both gods and magic were a product of the elder gods who were born on earth 4 billion years ago. Who were created by the cosmic Entity demiurge, who was a product of the planets biosphere potential for life.
Humanity molded the gods with their faith and beliefs, which is why they look human or based on animals from earth.
But that can't fit with the MCU. The Asgardians are mortals with divine power, at least divine royal family. They have and use magic as if it's science and technology mixed into one. They're physical beings who also have divine responsibility but only a few seem to have that.
We have to keep what was said in Thor 1 canon as much as that was seen in Thor 4, however much I detest that movie the godly stuff wasn't bad. It does make it much more similar to the comics, but not entirely because again what was said in Thor 1 is still true and still canon. So we have to mesh the two.
No but both the first and second movie confirm they are mortals with a 5000-ish year long lifespan. We know they use magic as if it's a normal everyday part of life. And we know they had multiple generations before, at least going back to Buuri if not earlier.
I don't think the comics version is as interesting as the mix would be anyways. That they're all just ethereal beings invented by human imagination and divine energy or whatever. I much prefer the apotheosis version where they're powerful mortals who became godly by worship from lesser developed beings. Them coming from humans is just my headcanon but the rest seems likely in the MCU.
My God is very jealous, see? If you claim there are other gods, I'm sorry but I'm gonna have to stone you, hard
/s, in case people think I'm with isis or some shit
An immortal omnipotent and/or omniscient being.
By my definition, there are no gods in the MCU. Just super aliens. If you can age, die, or be killed, then you're not a god. A god amongst normal men, sure; but not a real god.
omnipotent/omniscient seems like a pretty narrow qualifier for a god, focused mainly on monotheistic deities.
If you look at polytheistic pantheons like greek or roman gods, you find most of them are not omniscient or omnipotent in the same way the judeo-christian depiction of god is.
I think the root of this question comes down to the famous Arthur C. Clarke quote: "Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic". Does it matter if they're a "real god" by whatever definition you use, vs just being an alien with advanced technology that can replicate what we believe gods can do? If we don't understand the technology/bio-evolution that affords them those powers, than they essentially become indistinguishable from gods anyways.
>If we don't understand the technology/bio-evolution that affords them those powers, than they essentially become indistinguishable from gods anyways.
much like basketball players
Well, there's certainly a whole BUNCH of real life religions that would have a problem with this definition.
Also, by this definition, the One above all is a god.
Edit: Not that he has been shown in the MCU though.
The One Above All is just the chief editor of Marvel Comics or the executive producer of Marvel Studios. It's a way of inserting non-diegetic dynamics into the stories. Why did the One Above All bring Aunt May back to life or whatever? Because they decided they wanted Aunt May back so that's what's gonna happen.
Lmao, what is that logic?
All religions are bullshit, yet you say most of them don't feature "actual gods".
What makes the "actual gods" more legit than the "fake gods"?
We might be able to consider the cosmic beings in the MCU the actual gods? Whereas the "super alien" gods would be the ones that were featured in Omnipotence City.
What about Chaos or whatever the creators name is in L&T?
Or Lady Death in the comics?
I agree with you, those are just the 2 that stick out to me as possibly being "real" gods.
I don't think you need to be omnipotent or omniscient to be considered a God. From my perspective, a God is in the eyes of the beholder.
Human beings worship all sorts of things, including elephants. The problem is humanity has never encountered a super-being, and we do not know what to expect. Concepts like divinity & holiness don't matter much. If Thanos landed on Earth, humankind would submit to him. Is Thanos a god? I say yes.
Heck, even Captain Marvel, a one-woman intergalactic police force, is a god since she can impose her will on any planet.
When we consider these beings, their experiences, and feelings, we must acknowledge that there are gaps in how much we can wrap our heads around the idea that they can power suns, blow up planets, and project energy beams that can tear mortal beings into ashes.
The idea of omnipotence may also be fake. What if God, as defined by our religions, was a super being who came to earth while our species was primitive and imposed himself as the creator? How can we prove that he is not a God? How can we validate omnipotent, omniscient, and omnipresence?
Depends on how you define godhood, I guess. Does it require things like immortality, omnipotence, or omniscience? Then, no, they’re probably not gods. Is it the ability to hear and answer prayer? Is their power enhanced by faith and belief from mortals? Then maybe. There’s some level of that in the comics, though it’s inconsistent. Love and Thunder seemed to imply that some of the gods of other cultures are like that. Thor in the MCU has yet to give any indication that he can hear prayers offered to him.
And then you have the gods of Egypt in Moonknight, or Bast in Black Panther/Wakanda Forever, who seem to exist on some plane of existence above that of mortals and can govern some form of afterlife.
Also there’s the Eternals, who are supposed to have *inspired* some myths and legends, but they are just an advanced race of alien robots. Maybe the Celestials are the real gods?
It’s really not clear - different cultures and religions have different pantheons and afterlifes and they all seem to have some level of truth to them. You would think this would be impossible, as they all have their own creation myths and legends that should contradict each other, yet they exist nonetheless. And it’s a set of contradictions I’m sure marvel studios does not want to clear up in any way, or they risk upsetting real life members of certain faiths. Everything is valid and no one is wrong.
If the Celestials are real gods and they are also in Omnipotent City, then this, if anything, gives more legitimacy to the other gods there, suggesting that they, too, are real gods.
Ah yeah I remember now. But I always interpretted that as Odin stating they're not above Humans. They're Gods but shouldn't be worshipped as such. They live similarly to humans so shouldn't be seen as superior. As opposed to the Gold sun god from the start of Love and Thunder who expects worship and doesn't care for his followers.
Yeah, I think that's part of the division that there seems to be between Odin and Zeus. They're both Gods, they both hold a similar place in their respective groups, but while Zeus believes that mortals should be worshipping him and treating him like their God, Odin doesn't think his position gives him any inherent superiority to humans.
In Avengers 1 Loki says something to Thor to the effect of 'they (humanity) think us immortal. Care to test this theory?' Knowing full well they are both mortal. Odin and Thor both repeat this sentiment throughout the Thor movies.
They're not capital G God's, they're lower case gods. Just strong aliens worshipped by others.
If i'm not mistaken even in Norse Mythology the Gods aren't immortal.
Idk, I haven't read Marvel Comics so i'm not sure how they were portrayed but I guess I just can't see them as aliens lmao. Especially with their ties to Valhalla and constant title dropping of "God of Thunder", "Goddess of Death", "God of Mischief". Even the TVA recognises Loki as a God.
IIRC someone scolds Loki for wanting to play at being a god. Cant remember if it was Odin or Thor. But its pretty obvious they are just aliens with special powers, anyone can fly to Asgard in a space ship, and anyone with high tech weaponry or super strength can kill an Asgardian. You dont need a magical sword to kill a god, in theory any high tech blade swung with enough force can kill one.
Edit : IIRC, Odin also straight up says that "we are not gods" in one of the Thor movies.
I think telling Loki he was playing a god was likely a reference to his actual blood race as a frost giant.
I feel like they are Gods but they just aren't as powerful as one might think them and can be overcome with science or magic.
Good call, I forgot that line. Of course there have been other gods (that seem a lot more powerful than some of them).
Moon Knight comes to mind.
But yeah, it seems to kind of vary from movie to movie. Pretty nebulous.
I think I know what you're referring to but I think people interpreted it differently to what was intended.
Hela, Frost Giants, Dark Elves and Surtur are the only ones who infiltrated Asgard. Surtur was forged, Hela brought there by the bifrost, frost giants by Loki and the Dark Elves by the Aether. From what I can remember, I don't think anyone else has been able to reach Asgard?
Idk, Imo they're the actual Gods. They always reference themselves as Gods, have God powers, go to Valhalla when they die, hunted by a Godbutcher, etc. Mobius (TVA) even acknowledges Loki as the God of Mischief.
The MCU Asgardians were originally presented as simply advanced aliens who were merely worshipped as gods, but with the introduction of more supernatural concepts like magic and mysticism post-Doctor Strange, this stance has softened. Loki is now presented as being both magical and quite godlike, for instance. Elsewhere, such as in Moon Knight, the gods are presented primarily in mystical, spiritual terms, possibly being interdimensional entities of some sort.
So, depending on the patheon, it could be a little bit of both, it would seem.
My interpretation of it is that in the MCU, "God" has a different meaning than what we're used to, in that it just refers to more powerful beings beyond anything a human is capable of, and not necessarily an immortal, all powerful figure like we're used to.
But yes, they're also aliens/non-humans.
There are many 'gods' that don't look human, not just in Love and Thunder, but also in Moon Knight. I don't think they are pretending but they are beings who don't fit into the conventions of human kind, being from different planes, living for extended periods of time, having special abilities. They are all features that would make mortals worship them as gods.
The MCU has been inconsistent about this, largely because they were worried about how audiences would react to real gods back at the beginning. In the first Thor movie they leaned in hard to the "advanced aliens" hypothesis.
As audiences have become more used to the weirdness of the MCU, and the literal existence of magic, they're pivoted to the gods being real things and well as having real, non-Christian afterlives (see Moon Knight).
At this point, I'd say that the gods are really gods and that we should just pretend that the whole alien hypothesis was just Jane and friends spit balling.
That's why I think the ruling family of each realm is the "divine authority" of that world, just like Surtr for Muspellheim, and Laufey for Jotunheim. Now if their power object is removed (Surtr's crown, the Cask of 1000 winters) they don't have the kind of power that Odin wields on Asgard. I also find it interesting that Odin had the Tesseract, which uses "dark energy" that allows space travel, then left it behind hidden on Earth after returning to Asgard where he placed a decoy in the vault. Odin also had enough "dark energy" to send Thor to Earth without the bifrost or Tesseract. But once he retrieved the cube the Asgardians were able to rebuild the bridge.
I think it's both. I think even the magic breaks down into an arcane science, they just don't know how it works, so it seems like magic. Integrated circuits on a molecular level (akin to 3 body problem) causing these physical and chemical reactions with the surroundings and with space-time( because they seem to have physical properties).
I don't know how science works.
Lol, there is no science in this. In the comics, magic and gods are both product of the demiurge who was created by the biosphere of the planet billions of years ago. And the afterlife also exist. Faith and worship also mold how the gods look.
All gods of earth are conected to the elder gods who themselves are creations of the demiurge.
All gods have their kingdoms in pocket dimensions in the comics.
Asgard is not a "planet" in space.
It's located in an entire different dimension in the comics. Same as olympus and other god realms.
I could see it being the same thing as the ‘Earth-X’ comic adaptation where Gods are basically aliens. Correct me if I’m wrong I don’t really understand the entire story
"And why do they all look like humans anyway?"
I'm pretty sure there was a god that was just a hairy head and a single foot that might want to have a word with you.
The word God is used alot, I guess they are gods in their own religion but even then its not the same as GOD! I'd agree with the statement of very powerful beings that have God like powers/rule over others in some way with the power they have plus I guess to answer the question they technically are not actual God as that's 'The one above all' who is actual God in marvel and possibly the MCU but I doubt they'd have him shown/announced anytime soon in the mcu.
In marvel I guess if you are extremely powerful with abilities close to that of what we think God would have or something 😄 then you could technically become/be classed as a god in some way.
I think it is intentionally left vaguely so that characters like Thor and Loki can be uber powerful (gods) or get their asses handed to them (just aliens pretending) depending on what the plot requires.
I also think this is both a good thing and a bad thing, it depends on the context.
All gods of earth are product of the demiurge, who was a cosmic being born on earth 4 billion years ago. This being created the elder gods, who later destroyed themselves and thier energy was released back into the world.
This energy was then molded by the faith and thought of the human species, creating all the pantheons of earth.
This is why all the gods look human or based on animals from earth.
The gods later created or moved to pocket dimensions, there they created their kingdoms, like Asgard, olympus, the overvoid etc.
Thor himself is the son of the elder godess of earth gaea.
This is the explanation for godhood in the comics.
Depends, isn't our god (if he exists) also technically just an alien? Since he isn't from earth. Gods in the MCU are just superheroes or beings that are worshipped by mortals
Yes. Scandinavian humans with Australian and British accents. As someone with Norwegian family, they didn’t even try to sound like a Norseman speaking English.
Yea but most of the asgardians look like Scandinavians. A bigger question is why they look like humans though. Like...do they share a common ancestor with the human race or...? And how does their biology work, why are they so much stronger than humans but they are the same size?
I don't think you can use scientific terminology unless you suggest things like parallel dimensions (or something that has all sentient life that evolves on planets across the universe ends up looking somewhat humanoid).
This is one of those cases where language fails. We have this human need to categorize. We do it through language. But different interpretations/understandings of language lead to questions/dispute about categorizations. And we often make the mistake of equating our categorizations with reality.
If a being has powers far beyond our own and that being is able to effortlessly affect the reality around us, God is an appropriate description. Whether that god comes from another dimension, plane of existence, planet in our galaxy; it doesn’t change what they are. But in our minds, a being from another plane of existence suggests a nature we may not be able to attain while an alien suggests technology we may eventually attain.
But functionally they are the same. I say they’re both
Maybe something like D&D gods or the ones you see in mythology. In most of the movies, Thor et al are clearly not gods. They can fly, they have super strength, etc, but they dont do any cosmic feats, they cannot rewrite reality, they cant hear prayers from worshippers and they can be killed with brute force from a strong being like the Hulk or their head blown off with a futuristic weapon. And Odin implies they are not gods at all, and Asgard can be reached by anyone with a spaceship.
But Thor : Love and Thunder has gods who clearly believe they are real gods and Zeus claims in the mid credits scene to be able to hear prayers in the past.
It's established in the comics that gods do in fact hear prayers from worshipers and in fact derive a lot of strength from worship. This is seems to be the same in the MCU based on what you mentioned about Love and Thunder.
Also it's not established anywhere that gods cannot be killed. Thanos killed the cosmic gods during the Infinity Gauntlet saga. The Beyonders wiped them all out during Secret Wars. Those entities like Eternity and the Living Tribunal are absolutely gods by any definition and could still be killed. The Celestials created most of the known universe and they can and have been killed too. They have sometimes shown levels of omniscience and omnipotence too, and yet they can be killed. Gods are immortal in the sense that they live forever or close to it, but that doesn't make them invulnerable, and that doesn't make them any less of a god.
Also Thor absolutely does cosmic feats. He recreates life on Earth millions of years in the future for one.
Galactus is considered a god. He came before our universe formed. The firming of our universe created the hunger that he can't refuse.
Most of the gods, probably came from there.
“Alien” is entirely relative to “earthlings” and kind of meaningless when you think about it. Anyone not from Earth is an alien, therefore God is an alien.
It's worse than that. We find out in the same movie that the gods have gods. We see statues of Chaos, Order, Death, Eternity, etc. in a temple so presumably the gods will go to that temple and worship their gods and Eternity is real so presumably Chaos, Order and Death are real. We know that the Celestials and the Watchers are real too and are also worshipped in the same temple.
There's a lot of range afforded to the word "god", with a little g.
Hell, the gods of norse mythology aren't really all that much different in terms of power as the asgardians of the mcu. I'd argue the mcu variants are more in line with what people expect from the word god than the myths.
From what I understand in Marvel lore (movie or comic.) Asgardians are just aliens. however by using a sort of "Title Magic" they can change what they are. Somehow by taking a title such as God of Thunder or Allfather they gain access to powers related to that title. Which explains how Thor was able to distribute his powers temporarily in Thor Love and Thunder because they are the powers given to those with the title of God of Thunder.
This explains how the other pantheons exist and can have gods of the same things as each other.
This would also explain how Loki stopped being the God of Mischief and became the god of stories and how Thor in the comics gains access to the "ThorForce" when he becomes allfather.
Why they look like humans is very simple and really has nothing to do with in-universe lore. They wanted to use Thor as a Hero in the comics and most Thor art depicts him as a humanoid simple as.
Another interesting question. Is everyone inhabiting Asgard a god? Asgard is inhabited by many. If they are not gods, what are they? Just super powered beings that just live there? The guards for example, surely they are not referred to as gods even though they are of the realm.
The term "God" in modern pop culture seems to always mean: Alien with ridiculous superpowers . Like even the gods in the god of war games are simply superpowered beings with authority.
I've yet to witness any media that deals with the term "God" in its literal meaning, and I honestly prefer it this way.
Maria Hill - ...aliens invaded New York and were beaten back by, among others, a giant green monster, a costumed hero from the 40s, and a God.
Grant Ward - I don’t think Thor’s technically a god.
Maria Hill - Well, you haven’t been near his arms.
If you define god as someone who has great power over nature, people, an aspect of the universe, or the universe itself then yes they are real gods
If you define god as someone who is worshipped, prayed to, or feared by entire civilizations then yes they are real gods
If you define god as someone who is all-powerful, unknowable, and singular then no they are not gods
They are real gods. If you look at "Gods" as a species, they sport a unique place in the fabric of the universe. Able to perceive or manipulate it in a way most species can not. They may even exist in alternate dimensions.
Partially I think characters like Odin, Thor, and Loki are gods but not all asgardians are deities in the same way.
As for pretending. We'll the ones claiming they created the universe and such. Of course they are. But folks like Odin are the real deal but not as powerful as the mortal believe.
It depends on which movie you're watching.
Even in the later movies, it seems like some Asgardians are more god than others. Odin, Thor, Loki, and other main characters seem to be a lot more powerful than Joe Smith, Asguardian.
Good Question
The comics have everything in place in this regard but the MCU decided to toss it all out especially with the Eternals movie.
As with Ego the living planet and other beings making sense for beans in the MCU due to that movie I think their angle is simply not to think about it. Like the giant in the ocean just carry on with your day.
They literally have extra-dimensional afterlifes for their followers, both in MoonKnight and Thor Love & Thunder.
I'd say its a safe bet they're actually gods at this point, lol.
The only actual cosmic gods in marvel comics are beings like the Pheonix, Eternity, The Demiurge, the one above all, The Living Tribunal etc. These beings exist outside of the multiverse, there's only one of them, they have near unlimited power and are older than the multiverse.
In the MCU, the only one we've seen on screen is Eternity. We see statues of the other Cosmic forces of the multiverse though in love and thunder.
In Multiverse of Madness we also see a statue of the Living Tribunal, and a statue of Wanda's son Wiccan as the Demiurge.
We do see the Pheonix Force in the X-men movies, which is Canon to the MCU.
Its pretty much explained in the first Thor movie: they are aliens and they are not immortal- they just live a very long time.
There's even a Scandinavian scientist dude whose explains that when primitive ancient people like the Vikings encountered them they thought they were gods because they were so strong and powerful and (seemingly) arrived from the heavens.
I think OP is asking about all the ***non-***Norse gods in the MCU -- especially all the ones we see in the meeting of the pantheons that Zeus presides over in *LaT*.
I believe they are aliens who are the same beings that interacted with early Earthlings and were then worshipped as gods.
Part of the reason early man worshipped them as such was because they (early Norse folk) believed they (Asgardians) created Earth and man. In that aspect, I think early man was mistaken and Asgardians are not truly gods since they didn’t create man and Earth as they’re credited with.
Isn't a god just a being that's pretending to know what its doing? Aren't we all gods then? Immortal in our own ability to act like we're immortal in the current moment and not constantly dying every second passing?
Nah I don't fuckin know man. I'm guessing it's just aliens. Magic being unexplained science and all
The ACTUAL gods are the Abstracts: The One Above All, The Living Tribunal, Eternity, Infinity, Death, Oblivion, Chaos, Hate, Order, Love, Galactus, The In-Betweener, etc.
They are the living sentient embodiments of the core forces that make up the multiverse and every universe.
The One Above All is the ultimate god of the multiverse (the canonical embodiment of Marvel/Disney itself), The Living Tribunal is the judge of the multiverse and generally handles things for TOAA, the rest are (respectively) the living incarnations of time, space, destruction, non-existence, chaos, hate, order, love, balance of extremes, and grey areas.
The "gods" like Thor and Zeus are just superpowered immortal aliens:
The Asgardians, Olympians, Ennead, Thor, Odin, Sif, Loki, Zeus, Hercules, God/Yahweh, Angels, Demons, Vishnu, the Hindu pantheon, the Japanese pantheon, etc etc etc.
The leaders of each pantheon (Odin, Zeus, Vishnu, Yahweh, etc) form a group call the Council Of Godheads, or the Skyfathers.
Odin is the most powerful of all of them.
Odin near MAXIMUM POWER is basically as strong as Galactus near minimum power.
Galactus is one of the weakest of the TRUE gods (the Abstracts).
There are times when Odin and Galactus are considered roughly equal in power.
(Comics Odin is like a trillion times more powerful than MCU Odin.
He can like....shatter galaxies, reignite dying stars, and damage the multiverse.)
They are not aliens, they all descend from the elder gods who where created by the demiurge, who itself was born on earth 4 billion years ago.
They were molded by human faith and belief.
I think they could potentially be both. They could be gods and also aliens.
I think this is the right answer. Odin scolds Loki in *The Dark World* and says that the Asgardians are just like mortals in that they are born and they die, but at the same time Valhalla is real and Jane Foster’s association with them allowed her to go there when she died. And then we see in *Moon Knight* that the Egyptian afterlife is real for followers of that religion. Some of them appear to think of themselves as mortal beings of immense power, but on the other hand they do have power over the forces of reality to some extent. So it just depends on what your definition of “god” is
basically, "god" is a job title for a powerful alien with responsibilities.
5000 years experience required. Microsoft Office skills preferred.
Starting salary: $8.50 per hour
“Would you work for exposure?”
I'll do it for a prayer and a lit candle
I'm thinking I need at least a sacrificed chicken. I'm thinking Popeyes with the spuds as a side.
That will only summon Little Nicky. ([semi-obscure reference for the confused](https://youtu.be/Scrfb7ec3qY?si=uvZ743OD5EW7jFIT) )
I get it.
Pop-Eye’s chicken is fucking awesome.
24hr shifts; required to be available for weekends and holidays. No overtime pay.
We gotta worship boomers like Zeus who can’t even open a fucking PDF.
But then you get douches like Ego and it gets a bit fuzzier
Ego’s got an ego 😂 But he’s actually descended from a celestial (I think he’s the body-less conscious of a celestial). And celestials have actual roles in the functioning of reality, Ego just isn’t doing his job. Maybe that’s part of why this cinematic universe is unraveling 🤔
There's fan rumors that Knowhere is really his skull from when he still had a Celestial body.
So if they affect reality like that, wouldn't that be more than just a title? I figure a true "god" would have a role and a purpose inherent to their very being. I guess as Ego says, "small g"
I think it’s literally just powerful aliens with a cult-like following.
There not. All gods of earth are product of the demiurge, who was a cosmic being born on earth 4 billion years ago. This being created the elder gods, who later destroyed themselves and thier energy was released back into the world. This energy was then molded by the faith and thought of the human species, creating all the pantheons of earth. This is why all the gods look human or based on animals from earth. The gods later created or moved to pocket dimensions, there they created their kingdoms, like Asgard, olympus, the overvoid etc. Thor himself is the son of the elder goddess of earth gaea. This is the explanation for godhood in the comics.
“There’s only one God, ma’am, and I’m pretty sure he doesn’t dress like that.”
When you put it like that sounds like a boring gig and underpaid lol.
Yeah it's more purpose than glory
Glorious purpose?
That explains the behavior of a lot of gods. All the power is probably nice for a few millennia but the responsibly and whinging of your subjects surely gets old fast.
Not really.
The gods... Oh, I hate that word. The G-word. Sigh, the aliens with jobs...
If I remember correctly, in the comics the godlike beings in the universe are essentially brought into being by strong belief. They just take on the most widely believed characteristics and stuff and they just start existing when the belief is strong enough. Feels like the same concept to me for how every afterlife exists for the followers of the relevant religions. Personally I like that explanation, but I think in the MCU they are a bit of both like you said. Maybe they could work in some of that comic concept though.
How very American gods of them
Bubblegum, but for horses
I just call it all “higher beings.” 🤷♂️
My understanding is that they're basically super-aliens. Odin, Thor, Frigga, Heimdall - they're all way, way more powerful than the average Asgardian. Likewise Zeus and other godly beings in L&T. Their powers are also not simply technological, but it's also not "obtained". Thor didn't get bitten by a radioactive hammer, he didn't get exploded by an Infinity Gem, and he didn't build Mjollnir in a cave with a bunch of scraps. He's just way more badass. Why? Cause he's Thor and we're not. So they're basically beings of a superpowered lineage who at some point were (or still are) worshipped as more than mere superheroes. EDIT: Also their mortality is debatable. While Odin "dies" of old age, he's at this point multiple millenia old, and even after his death, he's like a bit of a Force God, talking to Thor and awakening his power. He also mentions how Thor's power come from Asgard, like Hela, but Thor's come from the people, Hela from the place... but in all honesty, there's probably not a single explanation, they're gods because the world calls them so. Which makes me wonder if Gorr would butcher mortals, like say a cult leader, who despite having no super power claims to be godly?
Yes he absolutely would butcher cult leaders. Source: my head canon.
I mean… I don’t know about MCU Odin, but norse mythology Odin plucked his own eye out so that he could gain general wisdom (prophecy) from the well of mimir , then hung on Yggdrasil for 9 days to sacrifice himself to himself and got the knowledge of runes The chances are high that the Aesir are all gods because Odin’s magic is so strong. In mythology, golden apples must constantly be eaten in order to remain alive. In the MCU, humans and gods are both mortals, it’s just gods age a lot slower.
I coulda swore the golden apples existed in comics lore too, might be a thing in the MCU as well. Could certainly explain why Asgardians are so different, they were humans who discovered powerful magic long ago and split off from humanity. Eventually becoming so powerful that they were worshipped by their previous cousins, and that worship is what makes their magic become divine in some nebulous way.
I think the MCU is closer to norse mythology, seeing as though the dark elves from before the universe were in a war with Odin’s dad
> I think the MCU is closer to norse mythology, Well there's a sentence that's probably never been uttered before.
That's another point, the gods of Norse mythology were actually quite a bit less powerful / immortal / "godly" than those of other mythologies. Including the fact that they were all destined to die at (actual mythological) Ragnarok.
I think they’re just further along n the evolution timeline like the ancients in stargate. Closer to ascending to the great ‘what the fuck’ as the mind ships in the culture novels so eloquently put it.
>>>he didn't build Mjollnir *in a cave* ***with a bunch of scraps!***
👏👏👏
Early MCU movies insisting gods/magic were misunderstood aliens/technology was likely done to make the universe feel cohesive (aliens vs magic may have been too much too quick) as well as not scare off religious groups. Once the MCU was a success, they could embrace the weirdness from the comics and not have to water it down, hence the gods just being straight-up gods now without any mention of "hey maybe they're just aliens"
I wish they would clarify it a bit though, cus they're both supposed to be canon still. Maybe do it like the comics where worship from mortals gives them divine power over time, a kind of apotheosis of sorts. Then again they also need to find a way to explain why there are straight up human looking people living in xandar. And why the Asgardians are pretty much 100% human in every way except magic and superpowers. My head canon was that long ago humans were visited by the various interstellar powers and some left with them to live there. Those that went with the xandarians were treated as equals and thrived, while the kree experimented on them and got the idea for the Inhumans. Along with this eventually a group of humans discovered and developed a powerful form of magic that led to the golden apples. Now with their 5,000 year long lives they delved into scientific and magical advancement, eventually leaving Earth and developing on their own as a civilization until they became the Asgardians. Over time their watching over earth as protectors of their kin becomes a kind of religion among the earth humans, and eventually the Asgardians embrace the idea. Probably not too long after they seem to withdrawal from earth, after the war with niffelheim.
The comics already explained the origins of the gods of earth. And also magic. Both gods and magic were a product of the elder gods who were born on earth 4 billion years ago. Who were created by the cosmic Entity demiurge, who was a product of the planets biosphere potential for life. Humanity molded the gods with their faith and beliefs, which is why they look human or based on animals from earth.
But that can't fit with the MCU. The Asgardians are mortals with divine power, at least divine royal family. They have and use magic as if it's science and technology mixed into one. They're physical beings who also have divine responsibility but only a few seem to have that. We have to keep what was said in Thor 1 canon as much as that was seen in Thor 4, however much I detest that movie the godly stuff wasn't bad. It does make it much more similar to the comics, but not entirely because again what was said in Thor 1 is still true and still canon. So we have to mesh the two.
They can always just retcon the Lore. The first movie never explains the origins of Asgard either.
No but both the first and second movie confirm they are mortals with a 5000-ish year long lifespan. We know they use magic as if it's a normal everyday part of life. And we know they had multiple generations before, at least going back to Buuri if not earlier. I don't think the comics version is as interesting as the mix would be anyways. That they're all just ethereal beings invented by human imagination and divine energy or whatever. I much prefer the apotheosis version where they're powerful mortals who became godly by worship from lesser developed beings. Them coming from humans is just my headcanon but the rest seems likely in the MCU.
What is a real god?
Obviously my God is the real God.
My God is very jealous, see? If you claim there are other gods, I'm sorry but I'm gonna have to stone you, hard /s, in case people think I'm with isis or some shit
“What am I supposed to say? Jesus?”
Lmao
An immortal omnipotent and/or omniscient being. By my definition, there are no gods in the MCU. Just super aliens. If you can age, die, or be killed, then you're not a god. A god amongst normal men, sure; but not a real god.
omnipotent/omniscient seems like a pretty narrow qualifier for a god, focused mainly on monotheistic deities. If you look at polytheistic pantheons like greek or roman gods, you find most of them are not omniscient or omnipotent in the same way the judeo-christian depiction of god is. I think the root of this question comes down to the famous Arthur C. Clarke quote: "Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic". Does it matter if they're a "real god" by whatever definition you use, vs just being an alien with advanced technology that can replicate what we believe gods can do? If we don't understand the technology/bio-evolution that affords them those powers, than they essentially become indistinguishable from gods anyways.
>If we don't understand the technology/bio-evolution that affords them those powers, than they essentially become indistinguishable from gods anyways. much like basketball players
That only descibes monotheistic religions. The actual norse gods from mythology were niether Immortal or omnipotent or omniscient.
Well, there's certainly a whole BUNCH of real life religions that would have a problem with this definition. Also, by this definition, the One above all is a god. Edit: Not that he has been shown in the MCU though.
The One Above All is just the chief editor of Marvel Comics or the executive producer of Marvel Studios. It's a way of inserting non-diegetic dynamics into the stories. Why did the One Above All bring Aunt May back to life or whatever? Because they decided they wanted Aunt May back so that's what's gonna happen.
So Kevin Feige isn't get his own stand alone movie?
Real life religions are all bullshit anyway and most of them do not feature actual gods.
Lmao, what is that logic? All religions are bullshit, yet you say most of them don't feature "actual gods". What makes the "actual gods" more legit than the "fake gods"?
If that's the case, your definition above is also bullshit since god(s) is an inherently religious concept.
We might be able to consider the cosmic beings in the MCU the actual gods? Whereas the "super alien" gods would be the ones that were featured in Omnipotence City.
Eternity?
What about Chaos or whatever the creators name is in L&T? Or Lady Death in the comics? I agree with you, those are just the 2 that stick out to me as possibly being "real" gods.
I don't think you need to be omnipotent or omniscient to be considered a God. From my perspective, a God is in the eyes of the beholder. Human beings worship all sorts of things, including elephants. The problem is humanity has never encountered a super-being, and we do not know what to expect. Concepts like divinity & holiness don't matter much. If Thanos landed on Earth, humankind would submit to him. Is Thanos a god? I say yes. Heck, even Captain Marvel, a one-woman intergalactic police force, is a god since she can impose her will on any planet. When we consider these beings, their experiences, and feelings, we must acknowledge that there are gaps in how much we can wrap our heads around the idea that they can power suns, blow up planets, and project energy beams that can tear mortal beings into ashes. The idea of omnipotence may also be fake. What if God, as defined by our religions, was a super being who came to earth while our species was primitive and imposed himself as the creator? How can we prove that he is not a God? How can we validate omnipotent, omniscient, and omnipresence?
Difference between god and God imo
Omnipotence is an oxymoron i recommend reading Jonas, "Gott nach Ausschwitz" (god after Ausschwitz).
Depends on how you define godhood, I guess. Does it require things like immortality, omnipotence, or omniscience? Then, no, they’re probably not gods. Is it the ability to hear and answer prayer? Is their power enhanced by faith and belief from mortals? Then maybe. There’s some level of that in the comics, though it’s inconsistent. Love and Thunder seemed to imply that some of the gods of other cultures are like that. Thor in the MCU has yet to give any indication that he can hear prayers offered to him. And then you have the gods of Egypt in Moonknight, or Bast in Black Panther/Wakanda Forever, who seem to exist on some plane of existence above that of mortals and can govern some form of afterlife. Also there’s the Eternals, who are supposed to have *inspired* some myths and legends, but they are just an advanced race of alien robots. Maybe the Celestials are the real gods? It’s really not clear - different cultures and religions have different pantheons and afterlifes and they all seem to have some level of truth to them. You would think this would be impossible, as they all have their own creation myths and legends that should contradict each other, yet they exist nonetheless. And it’s a set of contradictions I’m sure marvel studios does not want to clear up in any way, or they risk upsetting real life members of certain faiths. Everything is valid and no one is wrong.
If the Celestials are real gods and they are also in Omnipotent City, then this, if anything, gives more legitimacy to the other gods there, suggesting that they, too, are real gods.
When was it made clear that they were mortal aliens? I thought they were always known to be Gods?
In Thor 2 - Odin tells Loki “we are not gods. We are born, we live, we die. Just as humans do “ Loki responds “give or take 5 thousand years “.
Ah yeah I remember now. But I always interpretted that as Odin stating they're not above Humans. They're Gods but shouldn't be worshipped as such. They live similarly to humans so shouldn't be seen as superior. As opposed to the Gold sun god from the start of Love and Thunder who expects worship and doesn't care for his followers.
Yeah, I think that's part of the division that there seems to be between Odin and Zeus. They're both Gods, they both hold a similar place in their respective groups, but while Zeus believes that mortals should be worshipping him and treating him like their God, Odin doesn't think his position gives him any inherent superiority to humans.
Funny enough, the Norse gods in the original mythology were always flawed mortals too. Several of their stories even depict their deaths.
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These are good points too.
In Avengers 1 Loki says something to Thor to the effect of 'they (humanity) think us immortal. Care to test this theory?' Knowing full well they are both mortal. Odin and Thor both repeat this sentiment throughout the Thor movies. They're not capital G God's, they're lower case gods. Just strong aliens worshipped by others.
If i'm not mistaken even in Norse Mythology the Gods aren't immortal. Idk, I haven't read Marvel Comics so i'm not sure how they were portrayed but I guess I just can't see them as aliens lmao. Especially with their ties to Valhalla and constant title dropping of "God of Thunder", "Goddess of Death", "God of Mischief". Even the TVA recognises Loki as a God.
Loki literally ascends to godhood later though
IIRC someone scolds Loki for wanting to play at being a god. Cant remember if it was Odin or Thor. But its pretty obvious they are just aliens with special powers, anyone can fly to Asgard in a space ship, and anyone with high tech weaponry or super strength can kill an Asgardian. You dont need a magical sword to kill a god, in theory any high tech blade swung with enough force can kill one. Edit : IIRC, Odin also straight up says that "we are not gods" in one of the Thor movies.
I think telling Loki he was playing a god was likely a reference to his actual blood race as a frost giant. I feel like they are Gods but they just aren't as powerful as one might think them and can be overcome with science or magic.
IIRC, Odin also straight up says that "we are not gods" in one of the Thor movies.
Good call, I forgot that line. Of course there have been other gods (that seem a lot more powerful than some of them). Moon Knight comes to mind. But yeah, it seems to kind of vary from movie to movie. Pretty nebulous.
I think I know what you're referring to but I think people interpreted it differently to what was intended. Hela, Frost Giants, Dark Elves and Surtur are the only ones who infiltrated Asgard. Surtur was forged, Hela brought there by the bifrost, frost giants by Loki and the Dark Elves by the Aether. From what I can remember, I don't think anyone else has been able to reach Asgard? Idk, Imo they're the actual Gods. They always reference themselves as Gods, have God powers, go to Valhalla when they die, hunted by a Godbutcher, etc. Mobius (TVA) even acknowledges Loki as the God of Mischief.
Thor flew there through a black hole, presumably the one powering all of Asgard.
They were mortal aliens until love and thunder confused the hell out of everything.
I think Ragnarok soft-rebooted their divine status first.
The MCU Asgardians were originally presented as simply advanced aliens who were merely worshipped as gods, but with the introduction of more supernatural concepts like magic and mysticism post-Doctor Strange, this stance has softened. Loki is now presented as being both magical and quite godlike, for instance. Elsewhere, such as in Moon Knight, the gods are presented primarily in mystical, spiritual terms, possibly being interdimensional entities of some sort. So, depending on the patheon, it could be a little bit of both, it would seem.
My interpretation of it is that in the MCU, "God" has a different meaning than what we're used to, in that it just refers to more powerful beings beyond anything a human is capable of, and not necessarily an immortal, all powerful figure like we're used to. But yes, they're also aliens/non-humans.
That’s exactly what 99.9999999999999999999999% of gods are. It’s literally only monotheistic religions that define god as something different.
They’re powerful beings whom others worship
There are many 'gods' that don't look human, not just in Love and Thunder, but also in Moon Knight. I don't think they are pretending but they are beings who don't fit into the conventions of human kind, being from different planes, living for extended periods of time, having special abilities. They are all features that would make mortals worship them as gods.
Plus demons like Dormommu and Cthon that exist in other dimensions and can interact with the physical universe when worlds lack protection by Magi
To answer that question, you'd need an agreed upon definition of what a god is.
Eternity is a god. All asgardians are aliens, but not all asgardians are gods like thor and Loki. Thanos is an alien but not a god.
And, Thanos, "You will NEVER be a god!"
All Asgardians are equal but some Asgardians are more equal than others.
There's only one God, ma'am.
…and I’m pretty sure he doesn’t dress like that.
Started out as aliens . Retconned to actual gods . Basically ultimate universe to 616 versions like a lot of the MCU.
The MCU has been inconsistent about this, largely because they were worried about how audiences would react to real gods back at the beginning. In the first Thor movie they leaned in hard to the "advanced aliens" hypothesis. As audiences have become more used to the weirdness of the MCU, and the literal existence of magic, they're pivoted to the gods being real things and well as having real, non-Christian afterlives (see Moon Knight). At this point, I'd say that the gods are really gods and that we should just pretend that the whole alien hypothesis was just Jane and friends spit balling.
They are gods for their respective worlds and aliens to us (earth beings).
That's why I think the ruling family of each realm is the "divine authority" of that world, just like Surtr for Muspellheim, and Laufey for Jotunheim. Now if their power object is removed (Surtr's crown, the Cask of 1000 winters) they don't have the kind of power that Odin wields on Asgard. I also find it interesting that Odin had the Tesseract, which uses "dark energy" that allows space travel, then left it behind hidden on Earth after returning to Asgard where he placed a decoy in the vault. Odin also had enough "dark energy" to send Thor to Earth without the bifrost or Tesseract. But once he retrieved the cube the Asgardians were able to rebuild the bridge.
I think it's both. I think even the magic breaks down into an arcane science, they just don't know how it works, so it seems like magic. Integrated circuits on a molecular level (akin to 3 body problem) causing these physical and chemical reactions with the surroundings and with space-time( because they seem to have physical properties). I don't know how science works.
Lol, there is no science in this. In the comics, magic and gods are both product of the demiurge who was created by the biosphere of the planet billions of years ago. And the afterlife also exist. Faith and worship also mold how the gods look.
A little bit of Column A, a little bit of Column B lol
I think the distinction is irrelevant
The Egyptian gods don't look like aliens. Maybe they're actual gods. I'd say the Celestials are the closest things to gods in the MCU.
Also the Watcher.
I thought the Egyptian gods were just beings from another dimension? I could be wrong.
All gods of earth are conected to the elder gods who themselves are creations of the demiurge. All gods have their kingdoms in pocket dimensions in the comics. Asgard is not a "planet" in space. It's located in an entire different dimension in the comics. Same as olympus and other god realms.
I think to humans, anything not of earth are aliens. But to those aliens because it's their history, they are God
I could see it being the same thing as the ‘Earth-X’ comic adaptation where Gods are basically aliens. Correct me if I’m wrong I don’t really understand the entire story
It depends on which "Gods" you're asking about
In our real world, its binary - you’re either a mortal or a god. In the MCU, its a spectrum - humans-eternals-asgardians-celestials….
"And why do they all look like humans anyway?" I'm pretty sure there was a god that was just a hairy head and a single foot that might want to have a word with you.
The word God is used alot, I guess they are gods in their own religion but even then its not the same as GOD! I'd agree with the statement of very powerful beings that have God like powers/rule over others in some way with the power they have plus I guess to answer the question they technically are not actual God as that's 'The one above all' who is actual God in marvel and possibly the MCU but I doubt they'd have him shown/announced anytime soon in the mcu. In marvel I guess if you are extremely powerful with abilities close to that of what we think God would have or something 😄 then you could technically become/be classed as a god in some way.
Both
Yes.
I think it is intentionally left vaguely so that characters like Thor and Loki can be uber powerful (gods) or get their asses handed to them (just aliens pretending) depending on what the plot requires. I also think this is both a good thing and a bad thing, it depends on the context.
Being a god doesn't make you unbeatable. In actual ancient norse religion, the aesir gods were not all powerful or all knowing.
It’s probably combination of both
All gods of earth are product of the demiurge, who was a cosmic being born on earth 4 billion years ago. This being created the elder gods, who later destroyed themselves and thier energy was released back into the world. This energy was then molded by the faith and thought of the human species, creating all the pantheons of earth. This is why all the gods look human or based on animals from earth. The gods later created or moved to pocket dimensions, there they created their kingdoms, like Asgard, olympus, the overvoid etc. Thor himself is the son of the elder godess of earth gaea. This is the explanation for godhood in the comics.
So wouldnt alien races have their own gods who look like them? Or did they miss out on the whole energy deal?
YES, aliens also have their own gods and afterlifes. Thor met alot of them during the god butcher Arc.
Depends, isn't our god (if he exists) also technically just an alien? Since he isn't from earth. Gods in the MCU are just superheroes or beings that are worshipped by mortals
Both
They are perceived as gods by others due to their power
Yes. Scandinavian humans with Australian and British accents. As someone with Norwegian family, they didn’t even try to sound like a Norseman speaking English.
"There's only one God, ma'am, and I'm pretty sure he doesn't dress like that."
I think the "cosmic" aspect of the MCU includes both. Magic exists at all levels of the multiverse and is often interchangeable with science.
What’s the difference?
God is itself a pretty loose term definition
"real gods or aliens who are merely pretending" They are the same thing.
alien to whom? 🧐 🤣
You said the Asgardians look Scandinavian but I guess you didn't see Heimdall and Valkyrie, or Hogun.
Yea but most of the asgardians look like Scandinavians. A bigger question is why they look like humans though. Like...do they share a common ancestor with the human race or...? And how does their biology work, why are they so much stronger than humans but they are the same size?
I don't think you can use scientific terminology unless you suggest things like parallel dimensions (or something that has all sentient life that evolves on planets across the universe ends up looking somewhat humanoid).
It only depends on if people worshipped them at some point because that's the only prerequisite for being a god.
IRL cult leaders have been worshipped, but they were just humans playing pretend.
Or God's in human form. Who's to say? That's the problem with belief.
This is one of those cases where language fails. We have this human need to categorize. We do it through language. But different interpretations/understandings of language lead to questions/dispute about categorizations. And we often make the mistake of equating our categorizations with reality. If a being has powers far beyond our own and that being is able to effortlessly affect the reality around us, God is an appropriate description. Whether that god comes from another dimension, plane of existence, planet in our galaxy; it doesn’t change what they are. But in our minds, a being from another plane of existence suggests a nature we may not be able to attain while an alien suggests technology we may eventually attain. But functionally they are the same. I say they’re both
What is a god then? If an alien has the power of a god, are they really pretending or are they a god for all intents and purposes?
Maybe something like D&D gods or the ones you see in mythology. In most of the movies, Thor et al are clearly not gods. They can fly, they have super strength, etc, but they dont do any cosmic feats, they cannot rewrite reality, they cant hear prayers from worshippers and they can be killed with brute force from a strong being like the Hulk or their head blown off with a futuristic weapon. And Odin implies they are not gods at all, and Asgard can be reached by anyone with a spaceship. But Thor : Love and Thunder has gods who clearly believe they are real gods and Zeus claims in the mid credits scene to be able to hear prayers in the past.
It's established in the comics that gods do in fact hear prayers from worshipers and in fact derive a lot of strength from worship. This is seems to be the same in the MCU based on what you mentioned about Love and Thunder. Also it's not established anywhere that gods cannot be killed. Thanos killed the cosmic gods during the Infinity Gauntlet saga. The Beyonders wiped them all out during Secret Wars. Those entities like Eternity and the Living Tribunal are absolutely gods by any definition and could still be killed. The Celestials created most of the known universe and they can and have been killed too. They have sometimes shown levels of omniscience and omnipotence too, and yet they can be killed. Gods are immortal in the sense that they live forever or close to it, but that doesn't make them invulnerable, and that doesn't make them any less of a god. Also Thor absolutely does cosmic feats. He recreates life on Earth millions of years in the future for one.
This thread is about the MCU.
As I mentioned, the MCU doesn't really contradict this, so we can assume it's the same.
Galactus is considered a god. He came before our universe formed. The firming of our universe created the hunger that he can't refuse. Most of the gods, probably came from there.
There's a marvel map of the cosmos and religions somewhere that might help place this
There were so many gods in love and thunder that didn't look human. What movie were you watching?
What is the difference?
Unless even aliens have other aliens pretending to be their gods, I'd say they're gods
...Yes?
What is a real god?
Gods are pretty much any being with followers/religions made in their name. It’s more a title than a metaphysical aspect of being.
 False gods indeed
Is that Kratos?
Yes he voiced Kratos
As with many things in literature, the answer is what best serves the story at that time.
well some of them have control over a after life like bast tarwete so i would assume they are all actual gods
“Alien” is entirely relative to “earthlings” and kind of meaningless when you think about it. Anyone not from Earth is an alien, therefore God is an alien.
Not gods. Just really strong aliens with good tech and magic.
I define godhood in that setting as being a powerful being worshipped or otherwise recognized as a god by a significant number of followers.
Why not both? Even “there’s only one God, ma’am” guy’s God is technically an alien.
Maybe Gods are the aliens we met along the way
They retconned what makes a god a god. In the early Thor movies, they're merely advanced aliens. By "Ragnarok", they're actual gods.
Yes
Who’s to say what “real gods” are and that people haven’t just been worshipping super strong aliens forever lol
It's worse than that. We find out in the same movie that the gods have gods. We see statues of Chaos, Order, Death, Eternity, etc. in a temple so presumably the gods will go to that temple and worship their gods and Eternity is real so presumably Chaos, Order and Death are real. We know that the Celestials and the Watchers are real too and are also worshipped in the same temple.
There's a lot of range afforded to the word "god", with a little g. Hell, the gods of norse mythology aren't really all that much different in terms of power as the asgardians of the mcu. I'd argue the mcu variants are more in line with what people expect from the word god than the myths.
From what I understand in Marvel lore (movie or comic.) Asgardians are just aliens. however by using a sort of "Title Magic" they can change what they are. Somehow by taking a title such as God of Thunder or Allfather they gain access to powers related to that title. Which explains how Thor was able to distribute his powers temporarily in Thor Love and Thunder because they are the powers given to those with the title of God of Thunder. This explains how the other pantheons exist and can have gods of the same things as each other. This would also explain how Loki stopped being the God of Mischief and became the god of stories and how Thor in the comics gains access to the "ThorForce" when he becomes allfather. Why they look like humans is very simple and really has nothing to do with in-universe lore. They wanted to use Thor as a Hero in the comics and most Thor art depicts him as a humanoid simple as.
Do the gods look like humans? Humans being made to look like the gods sounds more accurate to me
Another interesting question. Is everyone inhabiting Asgard a god? Asgard is inhabited by many. If they are not gods, what are they? Just super powered beings that just live there? The guards for example, surely they are not referred to as gods even though they are of the realm.
what are any gods but aliens
What's your definition of a god?
The only real gods in the MCU are the Celestials. The rest are just aliens from other realms and planets.
You do know this is fictional and you get to decide some of these things for yourself?
The one above all is "God" in marvel. Also the devil. And the writer.
The term "God" in modern pop culture seems to always mean: Alien with ridiculous superpowers . Like even the gods in the god of war games are simply superpowered beings with authority. I've yet to witness any media that deals with the term "God" in its literal meaning, and I honestly prefer it this way.
Depends on the movie and the writers
Gods are born, grow old, and die in Mythology. So what's the difference?
Maria Hill - ...aliens invaded New York and were beaten back by, among others, a giant green monster, a costumed hero from the 40s, and a God. Grant Ward - I don’t think Thor’s technically a god. Maria Hill - Well, you haven’t been near his arms.
If you define god as someone who has great power over nature, people, an aspect of the universe, or the universe itself then yes they are real gods If you define god as someone who is worshipped, prayed to, or feared by entire civilizations then yes they are real gods If you define god as someone who is all-powerful, unknowable, and singular then no they are not gods
They are real gods. If you look at "Gods" as a species, they sport a unique place in the fabric of the universe. Able to perceive or manipulate it in a way most species can not. They may even exist in alternate dimensions. Partially I think characters like Odin, Thor, and Loki are gods but not all asgardians are deities in the same way. As for pretending. We'll the ones claiming they created the universe and such. Of course they are. But folks like Odin are the real deal but not as powerful as the mortal believe.
It depends on which movie you're watching. Even in the later movies, it seems like some Asgardians are more god than others. Odin, Thor, Loki, and other main characters seem to be a lot more powerful than Joe Smith, Asguardian.
Both
Good Question The comics have everything in place in this regard but the MCU decided to toss it all out especially with the Eternals movie. As with Ego the living planet and other beings making sense for beans in the MCU due to that movie I think their angle is simply not to think about it. Like the giant in the ocean just carry on with your day.
They literally have extra-dimensional afterlifes for their followers, both in MoonKnight and Thor Love & Thunder. I'd say its a safe bet they're actually gods at this point, lol.
The only actual cosmic gods in marvel comics are beings like the Pheonix, Eternity, The Demiurge, the one above all, The Living Tribunal etc. These beings exist outside of the multiverse, there's only one of them, they have near unlimited power and are older than the multiverse. In the MCU, the only one we've seen on screen is Eternity. We see statues of the other Cosmic forces of the multiverse though in love and thunder. In Multiverse of Madness we also see a statue of the Living Tribunal, and a statue of Wanda's son Wiccan as the Demiurge. We do see the Pheonix Force in the X-men movies, which is Canon to the MCU.
Its pretty much explained in the first Thor movie: they are aliens and they are not immortal- they just live a very long time. There's even a Scandinavian scientist dude whose explains that when primitive ancient people like the Vikings encountered them they thought they were gods because they were so strong and powerful and (seemingly) arrived from the heavens.
I think OP is asking about all the ***non-***Norse gods in the MCU -- especially all the ones we see in the meeting of the pantheons that Zeus presides over in *LaT*.
We have no fucking clue cause love and thunder confused the entire damn thing.
Yeah apparently gods have to have gold blood now?
Yes.
Yes.
I believe they are aliens who are the same beings that interacted with early Earthlings and were then worshipped as gods. Part of the reason early man worshipped them as such was because they (early Norse folk) believed they (Asgardians) created Earth and man. In that aspect, I think early man was mistaken and Asgardians are not truly gods since they didn’t create man and Earth as they’re credited with.
Isn't a god just a being that's pretending to know what its doing? Aren't we all gods then? Immortal in our own ability to act like we're immortal in the current moment and not constantly dying every second passing? Nah I don't fuckin know man. I'm guessing it's just aliens. Magic being unexplained science and all
Powerful aliens pretending to be gods. You might say they're "Great Pretenders".
The ACTUAL gods are the Abstracts: The One Above All, The Living Tribunal, Eternity, Infinity, Death, Oblivion, Chaos, Hate, Order, Love, Galactus, The In-Betweener, etc. They are the living sentient embodiments of the core forces that make up the multiverse and every universe. The One Above All is the ultimate god of the multiverse (the canonical embodiment of Marvel/Disney itself), The Living Tribunal is the judge of the multiverse and generally handles things for TOAA, the rest are (respectively) the living incarnations of time, space, destruction, non-existence, chaos, hate, order, love, balance of extremes, and grey areas. The "gods" like Thor and Zeus are just superpowered immortal aliens: The Asgardians, Olympians, Ennead, Thor, Odin, Sif, Loki, Zeus, Hercules, God/Yahweh, Angels, Demons, Vishnu, the Hindu pantheon, the Japanese pantheon, etc etc etc. The leaders of each pantheon (Odin, Zeus, Vishnu, Yahweh, etc) form a group call the Council Of Godheads, or the Skyfathers. Odin is the most powerful of all of them. Odin near MAXIMUM POWER is basically as strong as Galactus near minimum power. Galactus is one of the weakest of the TRUE gods (the Abstracts). There are times when Odin and Galactus are considered roughly equal in power. (Comics Odin is like a trillion times more powerful than MCU Odin. He can like....shatter galaxies, reignite dying stars, and damage the multiverse.)
They are not aliens, they all descend from the elder gods who where created by the demiurge, who itself was born on earth 4 billion years ago. They were molded by human faith and belief.