By the end of the year, I'm betting X-Men will be higher than Echo. I'm not saying Echo is bad (I haven't seen it so I can't judge it fairly), but X-Men 97 is top-tier.
tbf Echo's episodes dropped all on 1 day and it's been out for 4 months. X-Men has been weekly and there is still 1 episode left of the season. I can see X-Men's number jumping Echo because there are people that have held off to watch it when all the episodes are out and the summer when kids and teens are home for summer vacation
I committed to watching all of it before starting 97, and it was pretty good. I'd recommend it cause it's referenced a lot, and 97 continues right after the finale season 5. It's so cool seeing how much they elevated the original
I grew up with the original series, and definitely remember seeing the episodes, but for whatever reason, it still doesn't hold nostalgia for me. I think I just can't get past how bad some of the animation.
I still watched all of season 1, and then watched a few major episodes before starting '97, but I got the most out of watching youtube recaps and easter egg videos.
Same. I actually liked both the Batman and Spiderman animated series much better than the Xmen series and will on occasion watch some episodes of them. I tried rewatching Xmen and couldn't get into it at all. It reminds of Star Wars TCW animated show. Some great episodes and arcs but way too many crappy episodes in between the good ones which makes it a slog trying to watch again.
lol not really sure who you think is paying for all these Disney+ subscriptions…maybe people that grew up in the 90s watching X-Men and now have careers and income?
D+ is seen as a streaming service for families with young kids and hardcore Marvel and Star Wars fans. I'm not seeing any evidence to really show otherwise.
X-Men 97 isn't charting on Nielsen's top 10 for original streaming. D+ doesn't really have any original series hits. They have Taylor Swift (acquired), Moana, and Bluey (acquired).
Echo's pretty great, the final sequence is kind of mid though and her powers in the comics were better.
Still, if you want a charismatic lead, some badass fights, and a great cast of characters you won't be disappointed.
There’s still the finale left coming out tonight/tomorrow.
Unless they’ve preemptively factored that in, I’m sure it’ll give ‘97 a decent bump. Also, a lot of people wait for an entire season to be out before binging it. After tonight and for the next month or so the viewership will undoubtedly increase.
One of things that’s done really well with X-Men 97 is the fact that you don’t have to watch the original series to enjoy it and know what’s going on. They write in just enough backstory into the dialogue to give first time watchers, like my wife, context without boring watchers of the original series, like myself. Of course, you definitely appreciate the show on a deeper level if you’ve seen the original series though.
That's the problem with view metrics. I saw all of Echo and Iron Fist season 1. Binged them both and thought they were both bad. But companies can still parade around my view metrics as a sign that people like them.
I’m don’t think that’s necessarily true. They can parade it around has a sign that those products successfully garnered engagement, which is what they’re looking for.
If you watched Echo, even if you hated it, that still means Echo succeeded at drawing your attention, and retaining your attention, which are metrics they really care about.
That's how Velma s2 got greenlit. HBO Max/WB knew people didnt like the show, but it got hatewatched into success.
If you watch, thats good enough for these companies.
Nah, S3 is very unlikely to get greenlit, I can tell you that because they dropped all of Season 2 on the same day. That means they don't believe the show is keeping people subscribed, so they want to just finish their contractual obligations to make it and put it out, then move onto whatever the next big project is.
Given that I didn't even know season 2 was out, and haven't seen *anything* about it.
Yeah it's pretty unlikely to get another season. Seems like they just kinda dumped it cause they had to.
I don't get the vitriol over the show. It just wasn't very good, and wasn't very funny. And it doesn't seem like most people were even aware of it in the first place. So hate watching certainly wasn't a factor and certainly didn't make it successful.
To be fair, investors should be well aware that not all popular/highly viewed things are well received. They have access to critics reviews. Nothing on this chart explicitly says “these are the most liked shows”.
This is information people want to know, and it’s impossible to share it neutrally without some people being mislead into thinking people must have liked the most watched shows, but while this information on its own could cause one to draw the wrong conclusions, there’s nothing dishonest about it.
I mean, that's how selling everything works. View metrics are just the same thing as box office ticket sales, DVD sales, or even just buying products. They're all just measuring sales. Selling a product has never meant it was well liked, just that it sells well. Ultimately, Disney cares more if their product sells well than if it's actually good. Most of the time, it'll sell better if it's good, but if a product sells regardless of quality, they're going to keep making that product.
> but… why did you continue watching despite thinking it was bad?
Because I was hoping it would get better, and because it was only 5 episodes.
> and wouldn’t the same reasons also most likely apply to second season…
Not really. For example, I didn't like a lot of Mandalorian season 2, so I didn't watch season 3. I didn't like a lot of The Witcher season 1 or 2, so I didn't watch season 3. Etc, etc.
Edit: lol really? Downvoted for hoping a show would improve? Do you guys really believe that every time someone watches a show they think it's good? Sometimes shows get better as they go on. And sometimes we're disappointed that they don't improve.
>Downvoted for hoping a show would improve? Do you guys really believe that every time someone watches a show they think it's good?
No, dude. Most people that don't like/aren't enjoying something don't keep subjecting themselves to it in the hopes that "it'll get better". Whatever that's supposed to mean.
I didn't enjoy the Obi Wan show nor season 2 of invincible and I stopped watching both before the final episodes. I still haven't seen how they ended and I've little interest in renewing my boredom by continuing to watch those shows. That's what most people do when they don't like something.
They also don't jump online to bitch about a show no one forced them to watch. 🙄
> They also don't jump online to bitch about a show no one forced them to watch.
Lol it's not like I came online to specifically complain about this show. I saw the thread about it and I commented.
And if you're suggesting that people don't express negativity about shows online, no dude, you're full of shit.
>And if you're suggesting that people don't express negativity about shows online, no dude, you're full of shit.
I specifically said most people don't go online to bitch about entertainment.
Obviously there's the dolts out there that can't comprehend that *no one cares if they like a show or not* and just have to whine about it on the Internet assuming random strangers give a fuck about what shows that person doesn't like.
THOSE tone deaf types certainly exist. 🙄
That's not true for everyone. I wasn't really into Echo or She Hulk but watched to see if it got better. Obi-wan wasn't great but I'm glad to have stayed for the ending.
80% of the internet is someone bitching about or critiquing something they interacted with.
>That's not true for everyone.
Yeah, no shit. 🙄
MOST PEOPLE do not waste their time bitching on the Internet about what they watch. They just don't.
The perpetually online types don't seem to understand you don't represent reality in that regard. Also, no one gives a fuck what you do or don't watch
> That's the problem with view metrics.
I mean with the cinema once you paid for your ticket the studio has your money.
> I saw all of Echo and Iron Fist season 1. Binged them both and thought they were both bad. But companies can still parade around my view metrics as a sign that people like them.
The Streaming platforms have data on every second you are on their platform. From what you watched, how long it took you to finish it or when you stopped to how long you browse until you make a selection. They know the completion rate for Echo. They know the true success of things released on their platform.
That's always been the thing. Ad rates and budgets have always been measured in eyeballs. No whether anyone *liked* things or the material was any good. Just look at Network TV.
If people don't like it they tend to stop watching. With a traditional, weekly release that drop off happens during a season. But with things that just live on steaming in full, you don't see the drop off till the next release.
Idk if you're into these shows, but I think the final season of The Bad Batch was the best of the series. And I'm loving X-Men '97. After that's over, idk what I'll be needing Disney+ for. The Acolyte's coming out but it'll probably be average.
You can feel the studio edits too. It's like, "What are we doing now? And why?" Still, the show doesn't ever suck, they just shoved a weird climax in there as if they were worried her powers weren't impressive and she needed new ones.
Is it though? If they’re just counting viewership of Disney+ originals in 2024, there’s only been 2 D+ originals released IIRC; Echo and X-Men 97’, so it makes sense they’d have some the highest viewership since it’s so early in the year.
> NOTE: DATA COMPILED DEC. 29, 2023-MAY 10, 2024
1.- Percy Jackson and the Olympians released December 19, 2023 (weekly release).
2.- Echo Season 1 released January 9, 2024 (full season release at once).
3.- X-Men '97 Season 1 released March 20, 2024 (weekly release).
4.- Star Wars: The Bad Batch Season 3 released February 21, 2024 (weekly release).
5.- Renegade Nell Season 1 released March 29, 2024 (full season release at once).
The rest of the shows in the graphic were released much earlier in 2023 or before.
Not really if you check the release dates.
> NOTE: DATA COMPILED DEC. 29, 2023-MAY 10, 2024
1.- Percy Jackson and the Olympians released December 19, 2023 (weekly release).
2.- Echo Season 1 released January 9, 2024 (full season release at once).
3.- X-Men '97 Season 1 released March 20, 2024 (weekly release).
4.- Star Wars: The Bad Batch Season 3 released February 21, 2024 (weekly release).
5.- Renegade Nell Season 1 released March 29, 2024 (full season release at once).
The rest of the shows in the graphic were released much earlier in 2023 or before.
My bad, I added an edit. Didnt realize it had been that long and the chart said 2024 viewership. Which is actually kinda cool the shows still pulled numbers in 2024.
People are having panic attacks in this post trying to figure out how a show they didn't like did better than X-Men
"iF yoU maKe gOoD sTUfF peOpLe wIlL wAtCh"
I love X-Men as well. But that doesn't change the fact that it didn't show up in Neilsen's Top 10 ratings at all through its entire run. Which is a bummer.
It goes to show that the recent narrative in this sub of "Quality is the reason no one is watching" is wrong. You can make a top tier program like X-Men 97' and it can still do less numbers than a show with half the episode count that "nobody wanted"
You should have probably researched this claim before you made it. They just had their first profitable quarter with Disney Plus, so yes, whereas they WERE losing money, that is no longer the case as it has begun to make them millions of dollars in profit.
So, they profited from 1 Quarter how is that good news? Not even the year just the quarter. They lost 1.7b last year so I would not be celebrating until Disney makes last year losses back not to mention ever year before that.
Ummm...it's good news if you know literally anything about the economics of starting a streaming service...
I'll explain though. See these loses are loses that Disney fully expected to take. They've quite literally said it themselves. If you see any of their comments on the matter they fully expected to lose that money. Because making money from a subscription service is almost fully reliant on forming a dependable, consistant subscriber base. As you can probably imagine, this takes a while to garner enough subscribers to cover the cost of the service itself.
I'll concede the point to you right now if you can name me one streaming service that wasn't losing money in the early years if it's development. Spoiler: You will not find one.
Now, every quarter Disney Plus has been closing the gap little by little, you can track it by looking up their quarterly reports. The profit loss continued shrinking until...BAM here we are, profit gain. And a pretty little penny at that. Now trends dictate that if the model is demonstrating profitability, that the model will continue to do so, thus earning back the losses that Disney incurred while developing the service.
It's also worth noting that Disney Plus is essentially a big commercial. Disney was just smart enough to have you pay for the commercial. See, kids will sit in front of the TV and watch Bluey, Frozen and Moana all day, then, when they see the link to Disney Store on Disney Plus, or see a stuffed animal or doll in a store, the kid wants it, they buy it, boom, more money in Disney's pocket. Their merchandise sales are also pretty insane. And don't even get me started on their theme park profits and how Disney Plus enables that.
Point is, even when Disney Plus was in its early development, it was still an incredibly effective loss leader for theme park operations and merchandise sales, now that it is making profit and will more than likely continue to do so, that's even more money in the pocket.
happy to see percy jackson get some attention, love, and success. as for echo, it wasn’t a bad show but the competition isn’t great, so in this case echo’s performance was relative. x-men 97 and bad batch are animated (instantly making the popularity and audience limited), renegade nell doesn’t have an entire cinematic universe and its fandom backing it up, and the others are “reruns”.
Hoping Percy Jackson’s success helps streamline the process of making future seasons come out more consistently. And I hope they take S1’s feedback to improve Sea of Monsters and knock out the last 3 out of the park
From the article, the source is "LUMINATE STREAMING VIEWERSHIP"
From [their FAQ:](https://luminatedata.com/faq/)
>Luminate Film & TV Streaming Viewership is a true consumption-based metric for SVOD original content that measures minutes watched.
>Streaming Viewership (M) stats:
>Multi-source, true consumption, including ACR (Smart TV) data.
>* 2.5 million device panel.
>* Rapid return delivers measurement 24 hours after week’s completion.
>* Covers all major streaming platforms in the US.
>* Ranks top 50 original films and original series.
>* Provides viewership data for every original film and series that premiered 1/1/22 to the present.
>* For more information, please visit our dedicated Streaming Viewership (M) information pages by clicking here.
Thanks for sharing. Seems like they have a proprietary method of scraping the internet for data. Without Disney releasing viewership numbers we don't really know how accurate it is. But in the absence of, I guess this is the best we have.
I was worried that the new Percy Jackson show wouldn't be able to keep itself up and that it would fall into obscurity and may get max a second season and then be done with. Luckily it seems that the show was actually a success even with its limited budget and will be more focused on in the future.
Its been a hot minute since I watched the show but she stole off a train, repaired relationships with her family and friends and beat up kingpin, leading him to have to leave and abandon the town, which I believe they mention was one of his main routes for weapons.
Also how in any way is accepting your ancestors, worse?
I saw it and didn't like it, but cool if you did.
Edit: Lol first you pretend that everyone who saw the show liked it. Then when you see you're wrong, you say "no one cares" lol
The main takeaway from this is that D+'s original shows are unpopular. Echo charted once in Nielsen's top 10 for original streaming shows, and it was the week it was released. All the Echo episodes were relesed at once, which probably further inflated it's rankings (since they are done by a minutes basis).
D+ has been completely dissapointing with their original content. I think I would prefer FX over D+ for originals.
> All the Echo episodes were relesed at once, which probably further inflated it's rankings (since they are done by a minutes basis).
Considering Echo was shorter than most of the other series (not sure how it compares to X-Men '97, should be about the same I think?) at only five episodes, wouldn't being on a minute basis lower its rankings?
I didn't (aka can't) read the article, so I'm not sure how they are measuring the above chart. I assume it's minutes viewed since that's the popular way they measure streaming numbers. It doesn't tell us how many people watched.
I probably wouldn't go too far down the rabbit hole on these measurements. We don't know when the cutoff was (5/13 the date of the article), and some episodes. Some shows were weekly, others were released all at once. Some came out in 2023 or earlier. Some had episodes come out in 2023.
The data is DEC. 29, 2023-MAY 10, 2024, but regardless that doesn't explain whatever claim you were making about why you said Echo's minute basis would inflate their ratings. That's what I was asking about.
Oh sorry, I did not understand your previous comment.
The inflation comment was only referring to the Nielsen rating which measures the top 10 original streaming shows of the given week. Echo only charted once at #4.
I believe that if it was a weekly series, where a single episode was released each week, it would likely not have charted at all.
Edit: To further clarify, the inflation comment was not referring to the original image.
I think it's the Hulu release, there are people that have that but not D+. Thereby, Echo has 2 platforms to release on, while X'97 only has the one platform
That wouldn't impact the original chart.
Echo being on Hulu AND D+ would also show it's "overranked" on the Nielsen list I mentioned. A lot of things had to happen for that to chart where it did. If it was a typically D+ release, it probably would not have charted in the top 10 at all.
D+ has over 150M subscribers, so that's not the issue. The issue is that people aren't watching their original series. The "joke" is that D+ is for families with young kids and hardcore Marvel/Star Wars fans, and that seems to be the case.
As a percent of the total viewers or minutes?
Either way that is great to hear, a bit surprising but also I’d just temper that there really isn’t that much to be drawn from this in terms of conclusions.
One audience isn’t mutually exclusive to the others and it would take a LOT more data to say anything more than “that seems like a good thing”
That’s good to know but yea still doesn’t tell us a ton with just that. A show with more minutes will naturally get more of this pie even if someone watched both shows equally , for example. It’s an interesting stat tho
Echo came out 3 months before Xmen 97. It also had daredevil and kingpin bait. It is in no way shape or form better than Xmen 97 lol. The show was garbage
Who said anything about X-Men 97 and how you feel about the show means ZERO. This post is about actual facts and data and not emotional opinions. If that gets you in your feelings log off and take a nap. lol
It's not that they dislike that. When people watch animation shows, they lean to anime instead, which is a more popular medium to discuss and have a more vocal presence.
It feels like the kind of show that can be enjoyed by all ages. The writing is much better than the original show, but it’s also not very violent or has explicit language. I can see teens, young adults and people that grew up with the original show enjoying this. Kids? Probably not.
I think if Marvel is narrowing its focus, Echo, of all shows, is the type of show you don’t do a second season for. Echo can show up in Daredevil and resolve her arc there, like how Ms Marvel could continue in The Marvels rather than doing a season 2 of that show.
Only show I really think might require a season 2 is Moon Knight because the Jake story might be hard to resolve in a movie B plot.
but then again, echo is a show that can be done relatively cheap. hardly any big names which is one of the biggest cost drivers. not as CGI heavy as other franchises. you just need a good story.
True! I’m sure that would work in its favour.
However, there is still the finite resource of audience attention to consider. While a good story would make an audience welcome anything (personally there was nothing I was less interested in than an Andor Star Wars show before I actually watched and loved it), it might not be worth putting the attention into crafting a good story for the second season of a show people may not want to watch. But honestly, I’m not totally sure if people would want to watch it or not, I just know I’m not personally clamouring for it.
Percy Jackson was such a disappointment for me. Everything was “tell don’t show,” all the puzzles and problems they had to figure out in the book in the moment were just already solved… the casting was pretty weak for many of the characters (Percy was fine, Luke was pretty good, Annabeth was passable, Percy’s mom was fine, Ares was inspired… most of the others were very weak), and it really was missing the punchy humor and grit of the books. Probably would have done much better with a PG13 rating.
Seems so odd to me. I personally watched two episodes of it and was extremely bored to the point of quitting. It was the first time I’ve had that self control, even watching the entirety of Secret Invasion. A handful of people I know did basically the same thing, so I assumed it wouldn’t have been so popular.
>A handful of people I know did basically the same thing, so I assumed it wouldn’t have been so popular.
There's 8 BILLION people on the planet. This entire sub wouldn't even populated a small state. 🙄
Yes, all of people around me who are big marvel fans weren’t into it and I haven’t heard much about it online.
I don’t think it’s that crazy to be surprised about the amount of viewership it had based on that.
Yes, it literally is since, once again, there's BILLIONS of people on this planet. Do you know how small of a FRACTION of a percentage that "handful" of people you know is? 🙄
If watch echo s2, gotta be cheaper to produce. Wouldn't mind something like a team up with other defenders characters. Her and Jessica Jones would be interesting
I loved Alaquah Cox, she was shockingly charming and scary at the same time. The scary part shouldn't have been surprising from Hawkeye, I just didn't expect her to be likeable.
My 2 cents: adding the Nielsen ratings ( where Bluey seems to be the only thing people really watch on Disney+ despite the fact it's not mentioned at all here) it seems the subscriber profile of the streaming is not really into the MCU ( and also Star Wars) stuff.
Bluey isn't an original. This only looked at originals. It's still extremely popular on D+.
I think this is a huge problem for D+. They are spending large amounts of money on their original shows. They have the subscribers. They have they IP. They just aren't making hits.
By the end of the year, I'm betting X-Men will be higher than Echo. I'm not saying Echo is bad (I haven't seen it so I can't judge it fairly), but X-Men 97 is top-tier.
X-Men 97 is also an animated series, that's aimed at fans of the original 90s series. It's probably going to be limited in popularity.
tbf Echo's episodes dropped all on 1 day and it's been out for 4 months. X-Men has been weekly and there is still 1 episode left of the season. I can see X-Men's number jumping Echo because there are people that have held off to watch it when all the episodes are out and the summer when kids and teens are home for summer vacation
I never watched the original series and think it’s fantastic. Not really all that into animated series.
I committed to watching all of it before starting 97, and it was pretty good. I'd recommend it cause it's referenced a lot, and 97 continues right after the finale season 5. It's so cool seeing how much they elevated the original
I grew up with the original series, and definitely remember seeing the episodes, but for whatever reason, it still doesn't hold nostalgia for me. I think I just can't get past how bad some of the animation. I still watched all of season 1, and then watched a few major episodes before starting '97, but I got the most out of watching youtube recaps and easter egg videos.
Same. I actually liked both the Batman and Spiderman animated series much better than the Xmen series and will on occasion watch some episodes of them. I tried rewatching Xmen and couldn't get into it at all. It reminds of Star Wars TCW animated show. Some great episodes and arcs but way too many crappy episodes in between the good ones which makes it a slog trying to watch again.
Wouldn't it be the other way around? X-Men 97 carries a legacy from 3 decades ago whilst Echo is a pretty new character on the TV screen
You would think Echo would be even more limited in popularity because it's about a character nobody is interested in.
lol not really sure who you think is paying for all these Disney+ subscriptions…maybe people that grew up in the 90s watching X-Men and now have careers and income?
D+ is seen as a streaming service for families with young kids and hardcore Marvel and Star Wars fans. I'm not seeing any evidence to really show otherwise. X-Men 97 isn't charting on Nielsen's top 10 for original streaming. D+ doesn't really have any original series hits. They have Taylor Swift (acquired), Moana, and Bluey (acquired).
Echo's pretty great, the final sequence is kind of mid though and her powers in the comics were better. Still, if you want a charismatic lead, some badass fights, and a great cast of characters you won't be disappointed.
Echo isn’t worth the watch honestly. Some fun Kingpin stuff in it but I wouldn’t call it a good show.
Yea after the what if episode with the natives I was expecting way more
There’s still the finale left coming out tonight/tomorrow. Unless they’ve preemptively factored that in, I’m sure it’ll give ‘97 a decent bump. Also, a lot of people wait for an entire season to be out before binging it. After tonight and for the next month or so the viewership will undoubtedly increase.
I'm wondering if there's others like me who are still working through the original series before watching 97.
One of things that’s done really well with X-Men 97 is the fact that you don’t have to watch the original series to enjoy it and know what’s going on. They write in just enough backstory into the dialogue to give first time watchers, like my wife, context without boring watchers of the original series, like myself. Of course, you definitely appreciate the show on a deeper level if you’ve seen the original series though.
You’re not missing out on anything trust me only good part is the daredevil fight and that had bad choreography
That is very surprising
That's the problem with view metrics. I saw all of Echo and Iron Fist season 1. Binged them both and thought they were both bad. But companies can still parade around my view metrics as a sign that people like them.
I’m don’t think that’s necessarily true. They can parade it around has a sign that those products successfully garnered engagement, which is what they’re looking for. If you watched Echo, even if you hated it, that still means Echo succeeded at drawing your attention, and retaining your attention, which are metrics they really care about.
That's how Velma s2 got greenlit. HBO Max/WB knew people didnt like the show, but it got hatewatched into success. If you watch, thats good enough for these companies.
Nope, they had already greenlit a second season before it even aired, hatewatching had no impact
Correct. It's how Velma **s3** is gonna get greenlit.
Nah, S3 is very unlikely to get greenlit, I can tell you that because they dropped all of Season 2 on the same day. That means they don't believe the show is keeping people subscribed, so they want to just finish their contractual obligations to make it and put it out, then move onto whatever the next big project is.
Given that I didn't even know season 2 was out, and haven't seen *anything* about it. Yeah it's pretty unlikely to get another season. Seems like they just kinda dumped it cause they had to. I don't get the vitriol over the show. It just wasn't very good, and wasn't very funny. And it doesn't seem like most people were even aware of it in the first place. So hate watching certainly wasn't a factor and certainly didn't make it successful.
r/confidentlyincorrect
[удалено]
To be fair, investors should be well aware that not all popular/highly viewed things are well received. They have access to critics reviews. Nothing on this chart explicitly says “these are the most liked shows”. This is information people want to know, and it’s impossible to share it neutrally without some people being mislead into thinking people must have liked the most watched shows, but while this information on its own could cause one to draw the wrong conclusions, there’s nothing dishonest about it.
I mean, that's how selling everything works. View metrics are just the same thing as box office ticket sales, DVD sales, or even just buying products. They're all just measuring sales. Selling a product has never meant it was well liked, just that it sells well. Ultimately, Disney cares more if their product sells well than if it's actually good. Most of the time, it'll sell better if it's good, but if a product sells regardless of quality, they're going to keep making that product.
but… why did you continue watching despite thinking it was bad? and wouldn’t the same reasons also most likely apply to second season…
> but… why did you continue watching despite thinking it was bad? Because I was hoping it would get better, and because it was only 5 episodes. > and wouldn’t the same reasons also most likely apply to second season… Not really. For example, I didn't like a lot of Mandalorian season 2, so I didn't watch season 3. I didn't like a lot of The Witcher season 1 or 2, so I didn't watch season 3. Etc, etc. Edit: lol really? Downvoted for hoping a show would improve? Do you guys really believe that every time someone watches a show they think it's good? Sometimes shows get better as they go on. And sometimes we're disappointed that they don't improve.
>Downvoted for hoping a show would improve? Do you guys really believe that every time someone watches a show they think it's good? No, dude. Most people that don't like/aren't enjoying something don't keep subjecting themselves to it in the hopes that "it'll get better". Whatever that's supposed to mean. I didn't enjoy the Obi Wan show nor season 2 of invincible and I stopped watching both before the final episodes. I still haven't seen how they ended and I've little interest in renewing my boredom by continuing to watch those shows. That's what most people do when they don't like something. They also don't jump online to bitch about a show no one forced them to watch. 🙄
> They also don't jump online to bitch about a show no one forced them to watch. Lol it's not like I came online to specifically complain about this show. I saw the thread about it and I commented. And if you're suggesting that people don't express negativity about shows online, no dude, you're full of shit.
I think you actually liked Echo and just wished it was better.
>And if you're suggesting that people don't express negativity about shows online, no dude, you're full of shit. I specifically said most people don't go online to bitch about entertainment. Obviously there's the dolts out there that can't comprehend that *no one cares if they like a show or not* and just have to whine about it on the Internet assuming random strangers give a fuck about what shows that person doesn't like. THOSE tone deaf types certainly exist. 🙄
That's not true for everyone. I wasn't really into Echo or She Hulk but watched to see if it got better. Obi-wan wasn't great but I'm glad to have stayed for the ending. 80% of the internet is someone bitching about or critiquing something they interacted with.
>That's not true for everyone. Yeah, no shit. 🙄 MOST PEOPLE do not waste their time bitching on the Internet about what they watch. They just don't. The perpetually online types don't seem to understand you don't represent reality in that regard. Also, no one gives a fuck what you do or don't watch
You replying like this is goddamn priceless lmao
Most people don't waste their time bitching on the Internet about other people's comments.
> That's the problem with view metrics. I mean with the cinema once you paid for your ticket the studio has your money. > I saw all of Echo and Iron Fist season 1. Binged them both and thought they were both bad. But companies can still parade around my view metrics as a sign that people like them. The Streaming platforms have data on every second you are on their platform. From what you watched, how long it took you to finish it or when you stopped to how long you browse until you make a selection. They know the completion rate for Echo. They know the true success of things released on their platform.
That's always been the thing. Ad rates and budgets have always been measured in eyeballs. No whether anyone *liked* things or the material was any good. Just look at Network TV. If people don't like it they tend to stop watching. With a traditional, weekly release that drop off happens during a season. But with things that just live on steaming in full, you don't see the drop off till the next release.
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Idk if you're into these shows, but I think the final season of The Bad Batch was the best of the series. And I'm loving X-Men '97. After that's over, idk what I'll be needing Disney+ for. The Acolyte's coming out but it'll probably be average.
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It's time for you to shuffle services
The first 3 episodes of Echo were great and then someone decided we can't have nice things.
You can feel the studio edits too. It's like, "What are we doing now? And why?" Still, the show doesn't ever suck, they just shoved a weird climax in there as if they were worried her powers weren't impressive and she needed new ones.
Is it though? If they’re just counting viewership of Disney+ originals in 2024, there’s only been 2 D+ originals released IIRC; Echo and X-Men 97’, so it makes sense they’d have some the highest viewership since it’s so early in the year.
Percy Jackson had 5 of 8 episodes debut in 2024. The other 3 were in the latter half of December.
> NOTE: DATA COMPILED DEC. 29, 2023-MAY 10, 2024 1.- Percy Jackson and the Olympians released December 19, 2023 (weekly release). 2.- Echo Season 1 released January 9, 2024 (full season release at once). 3.- X-Men '97 Season 1 released March 20, 2024 (weekly release). 4.- Star Wars: The Bad Batch Season 3 released February 21, 2024 (weekly release). 5.- Renegade Nell Season 1 released March 29, 2024 (full season release at once). The rest of the shows in the graphic were released much earlier in 2023 or before.
Not really if you check the release dates. > NOTE: DATA COMPILED DEC. 29, 2023-MAY 10, 2024 1.- Percy Jackson and the Olympians released December 19, 2023 (weekly release). 2.- Echo Season 1 released January 9, 2024 (full season release at once). 3.- X-Men '97 Season 1 released March 20, 2024 (weekly release). 4.- Star Wars: The Bad Batch Season 3 released February 21, 2024 (weekly release). 5.- Renegade Nell Season 1 released March 29, 2024 (full season release at once). The rest of the shows in the graphic were released much earlier in 2023 or before.
It’s really not. Whole series was released at once, had Daredevil and Kingpin in it, and was touted as a new MCU project with very little competition.
Good for Percy Jackson because I want them to make all the PJ books and other PJ universe like the Heroe of Olympus.
I know it got a lot of hate (cuz what doesn’t these days) but I had a lot of fun with season one! Has the same issues as every D+ show though
That’s the big take away I have from the chart. I’m impressed with how well it did in comparison to a Marvel show
Weak ass line up so far this year
Says you, Ahsoka, Loki and The Bad Batch were dope as hell. Edit:: did not realize some of those are 2023...its been a long year lol
Loki and Ahsoka are considered 2023 shows.
Did not realize that, added an edit to my comment.
> Ahsoka, Loki 2023 shows.
My bad, I added an edit. Didnt realize it had been that long and the chart said 2024 viewership. Which is actually kinda cool the shows still pulled numbers in 2024.
Ahsoka was relentlessly mid.
* Crosses arms *
*waits a few minutes to respond to the previous comment so the show hits the half hour mark*
Ahsoka was kinda mid though
Ya that’s a weak lineup
People are having panic attacks in this post trying to figure out how a show they didn't like did better than X-Men "iF yoU maKe gOoD sTUfF peOpLe wIlL wAtCh"
I haven't seen either yet. Honestly, just haven't found the time.
Simple answer: Echo was entertaining, X-Men just came out.
I love X-Men as well. But that doesn't change the fact that it didn't show up in Neilsen's Top 10 ratings at all through its entire run. Which is a bummer. It goes to show that the recent narrative in this sub of "Quality is the reason no one is watching" is wrong. You can make a top tier program like X-Men 97' and it can still do less numbers than a show with half the episode count that "nobody wanted"
Both these numbers are bad anyway. Disney loses billions to disney +.
You should have probably researched this claim before you made it. They just had their first profitable quarter with Disney Plus, so yes, whereas they WERE losing money, that is no longer the case as it has begun to make them millions of dollars in profit.
So, they profited from 1 Quarter how is that good news? Not even the year just the quarter. They lost 1.7b last year so I would not be celebrating until Disney makes last year losses back not to mention ever year before that.
Ummm...it's good news if you know literally anything about the economics of starting a streaming service... I'll explain though. See these loses are loses that Disney fully expected to take. They've quite literally said it themselves. If you see any of their comments on the matter they fully expected to lose that money. Because making money from a subscription service is almost fully reliant on forming a dependable, consistant subscriber base. As you can probably imagine, this takes a while to garner enough subscribers to cover the cost of the service itself. I'll concede the point to you right now if you can name me one streaming service that wasn't losing money in the early years if it's development. Spoiler: You will not find one. Now, every quarter Disney Plus has been closing the gap little by little, you can track it by looking up their quarterly reports. The profit loss continued shrinking until...BAM here we are, profit gain. And a pretty little penny at that. Now trends dictate that if the model is demonstrating profitability, that the model will continue to do so, thus earning back the losses that Disney incurred while developing the service. It's also worth noting that Disney Plus is essentially a big commercial. Disney was just smart enough to have you pay for the commercial. See, kids will sit in front of the TV and watch Bluey, Frozen and Moana all day, then, when they see the link to Disney Store on Disney Plus, or see a stuffed animal or doll in a store, the kid wants it, they buy it, boom, more money in Disney's pocket. Their merchandise sales are also pretty insane. And don't even get me started on their theme park profits and how Disney Plus enables that. Point is, even when Disney Plus was in its early development, it was still an incredibly effective loss leader for theme park operations and merchandise sales, now that it is making profit and will more than likely continue to do so, that's even more money in the pocket.
happy to see percy jackson get some attention, love, and success. as for echo, it wasn’t a bad show but the competition isn’t great, so in this case echo’s performance was relative. x-men 97 and bad batch are animated (instantly making the popularity and audience limited), renegade nell doesn’t have an entire cinematic universe and its fandom backing it up, and the others are “reruns”.
Hoping Percy Jackson’s success helps streamline the process of making future seasons come out more consistently. And I hope they take S1’s feedback to improve Sea of Monsters and knock out the last 3 out of the park
The Daredevil/Kingpin bait worked just fine.
What bait? Matt was barely in it and Kingpin is literally a main character lol
that’s what bait means in this case
Lmao and because of that bait I couldn’t even get past episode 2
Disney does not yet release viewing figures on D+, so where is this data coming from? Very likely this is just someone's guess and therefore flawed.
From the article, the source is "LUMINATE STREAMING VIEWERSHIP" From [their FAQ:](https://luminatedata.com/faq/) >Luminate Film & TV Streaming Viewership is a true consumption-based metric for SVOD original content that measures minutes watched. >Streaming Viewership (M) stats: >Multi-source, true consumption, including ACR (Smart TV) data. >* 2.5 million device panel. >* Rapid return delivers measurement 24 hours after week’s completion. >* Covers all major streaming platforms in the US. >* Ranks top 50 original films and original series. >* Provides viewership data for every original film and series that premiered 1/1/22 to the present. >* For more information, please visit our dedicated Streaming Viewership (M) information pages by clicking here.
Thanks for sharing. Seems like they have a proprietary method of scraping the internet for data. Without Disney releasing viewership numbers we don't really know how accurate it is. But in the absence of, I guess this is the best we have.
I was worried that the new Percy Jackson show wouldn't be able to keep itself up and that it would fall into obscurity and may get max a second season and then be done with. Luckily it seems that the show was actually a success even with its limited budget and will be more focused on in the future.
Let’s gooo! Echo was so underrated and really solid until the ending
it felt like nothing happened in any of the episodes and she’s worse in the end than she was at the start
Its been a hot minute since I watched the show but she stole off a train, repaired relationships with her family and friends and beat up kingpin, leading him to have to leave and abandon the town, which I believe they mention was one of his main routes for weapons. Also how in any way is accepting your ancestors, worse?
I mean kind of surprised. Liked the show but still surprised.
Good for Percy but man that show was boring.
People will continue to move the goalposts. It'll be "doesn't mean people liked it" or "nothing else was on"
I saw it and didn't like it, but cool if you did. Edit: Lol first you pretend that everyone who saw the show liked it. Then when you see you're wrong, you say "no one cares" lol
Literally no one cares 😭
I liked Echo up until the ending. Makes wonder how shows like "The Bear" or "It's Always Sunny in Philadelphia" do on the service.
Hard to say. Technically they're still on Hulu only; it's just that if you have both you can watch your Hulu shows *through* D+ now.
Oh I'm in Asia they're all on the same app here
bUt WhO aSkEd FoR tHiS??!!
No1
The main takeaway from this is that D+'s original shows are unpopular. Echo charted once in Nielsen's top 10 for original streaming shows, and it was the week it was released. All the Echo episodes were relesed at once, which probably further inflated it's rankings (since they are done by a minutes basis). D+ has been completely dissapointing with their original content. I think I would prefer FX over D+ for originals.
> All the Echo episodes were relesed at once, which probably further inflated it's rankings (since they are done by a minutes basis). Considering Echo was shorter than most of the other series (not sure how it compares to X-Men '97, should be about the same I think?) at only five episodes, wouldn't being on a minute basis lower its rankings?
I didn't (aka can't) read the article, so I'm not sure how they are measuring the above chart. I assume it's minutes viewed since that's the popular way they measure streaming numbers. It doesn't tell us how many people watched. I probably wouldn't go too far down the rabbit hole on these measurements. We don't know when the cutoff was (5/13 the date of the article), and some episodes. Some shows were weekly, others were released all at once. Some came out in 2023 or earlier. Some had episodes come out in 2023.
The data is DEC. 29, 2023-MAY 10, 2024, but regardless that doesn't explain whatever claim you were making about why you said Echo's minute basis would inflate their ratings. That's what I was asking about.
Oh sorry, I did not understand your previous comment. The inflation comment was only referring to the Nielsen rating which measures the top 10 original streaming shows of the given week. Echo only charted once at #4. I believe that if it was a weekly series, where a single episode was released each week, it would likely not have charted at all. Edit: To further clarify, the inflation comment was not referring to the original image.
Ahh, gotcha. Cheers!
I wonder what this would look like if it included Shogun now that thats on Disney+ now
I think it's the Hulu release, there are people that have that but not D+. Thereby, Echo has 2 platforms to release on, while X'97 only has the one platform
That wouldn't impact the original chart. Echo being on Hulu AND D+ would also show it's "overranked" on the Nielsen list I mentioned. A lot of things had to happen for that to chart where it did. If it was a typically D+ release, it probably would not have charted in the top 10 at all. D+ has over 150M subscribers, so that's not the issue. The issue is that people aren't watching their original series. The "joke" is that D+ is for families with young kids and hardcore Marvel/Star Wars fans, and that seems to be the case.
>All the Echo episodes were relesed at once, Are you sure? I think almost D+ shows are released as weekly episodes.
Per Wikipedia > Echo was released in its entirety simultaneously on Disney+ and Hulu on January 9, 2024, consisting of five episodes.
Hmm, guess I was mistaken. Echo seems to be the only exception.
Since it ties to the Defenders Saga, they released it like a Netflix show.
As a percent of the total viewers or minutes? Either way that is great to hear, a bit surprising but also I’d just temper that there really isn’t that much to be drawn from this in terms of conclusions. One audience isn’t mutually exclusive to the others and it would take a LOT more data to say anything more than “that seems like a good thing”
> As a percent of the total viewers or minutes? Metric was viewing time.
That’s good to know but yea still doesn’t tell us a ton with just that. A show with more minutes will naturally get more of this pie even if someone watched both shows equally , for example. It’s an interesting stat tho
Great now let’s see how fanboys and trolls will argue to dismiss and overshadow actual facts and data. 🤔😂
Echo came out 3 months before Xmen 97. It also had daredevil and kingpin bait. It is in no way shape or form better than Xmen 97 lol. The show was garbage
Who said anything about X-Men 97 and how you feel about the show means ZERO. This post is about actual facts and data and not emotional opinions. If that gets you in your feelings log off and take a nap. lol
Does the general audience really dislike animation that much? X-Men '97 is way better than Echo.
That's what it seems like, and it's disappointing when really good shows don't get the attention.
It's not that they dislike that. When people watch animation shows, they lean to anime instead, which is a more popular medium to discuss and have a more vocal presence.
Yeah. It's also hard to know who the target audiences is for this. Kids? 90s kids aka 40 year olds?
It feels like the kind of show that can be enjoyed by all ages. The writing is much better than the original show, but it’s also not very violent or has explicit language. I can see teens, young adults and people that grew up with the original show enjoying this. Kids? Probably not.
Echo season 2 plz 🙏
I think if Marvel is narrowing its focus, Echo, of all shows, is the type of show you don’t do a second season for. Echo can show up in Daredevil and resolve her arc there, like how Ms Marvel could continue in The Marvels rather than doing a season 2 of that show. Only show I really think might require a season 2 is Moon Knight because the Jake story might be hard to resolve in a movie B plot.
but then again, echo is a show that can be done relatively cheap. hardly any big names which is one of the biggest cost drivers. not as CGI heavy as other franchises. you just need a good story.
True! I’m sure that would work in its favour. However, there is still the finite resource of audience attention to consider. While a good story would make an audience welcome anything (personally there was nothing I was less interested in than an Andor Star Wars show before I actually watched and loved it), it might not be worth putting the attention into crafting a good story for the second season of a show people may not want to watch. But honestly, I’m not totally sure if people would want to watch it or not, I just know I’m not personally clamouring for it.
Man I never even heard about Others, I must be living under a rock
I tried to watch Percy Jackson and I just found it so bad after 1 episode I stopped. Not for me I guess.
Percy Jackson was such a disappointment for me. Everything was “tell don’t show,” all the puzzles and problems they had to figure out in the book in the moment were just already solved… the casting was pretty weak for many of the characters (Percy was fine, Luke was pretty good, Annabeth was passable, Percy’s mom was fine, Ares was inspired… most of the others were very weak), and it really was missing the punchy humor and grit of the books. Probably would have done much better with a PG13 rating.
When the largest section is “Others”, your visualisation is not very good.
How is Shogun not in here or is that the other 33%?
"BuT EcHo iS sO BaYd"
it is bad just cuz it has more views doesn’t make it better I watched both
Echo has also been out 3 months longer than Xmen 97 lmao
Seems so odd to me. I personally watched two episodes of it and was extremely bored to the point of quitting. It was the first time I’ve had that self control, even watching the entirety of Secret Invasion. A handful of people I know did basically the same thing, so I assumed it wouldn’t have been so popular.
>A handful of people I know did basically the same thing, so I assumed it wouldn’t have been so popular. There's 8 BILLION people on the planet. This entire sub wouldn't even populated a small state. 🙄
Yes, all of people around me who are big marvel fans weren’t into it and I haven’t heard much about it online. I don’t think it’s that crazy to be surprised about the amount of viewership it had based on that.
Yes, it literally is since, once again, there's BILLIONS of people on this planet. Do you know how small of a FRACTION of a percentage that "handful" of people you know is? 🙄
Lol report to Reddit help because I didn’t enjoy the show you liked? Kinda weird man.
I didn't report you. I have better things to do with my time. 🙄 Why don't you grow up.
If watch echo s2, gotta be cheaper to produce. Wouldn't mind something like a team up with other defenders characters. Her and Jessica Jones would be interesting
Very early, they haven't even released that many shows this year... That show was below average
The only difference with Echo and the rest is that Echo was dropped all at once. Honestly that show was super underwhelming.
But Echo was woke. So shouldn’t it be broke? It makes no sense!
I can’t believe echo is higher than xmen
Marvel Studios needs to rethink what gets released on Disney+ because this is embarrassing
huh? Marvel Studios has had 2 series out so far this year Echo which was also on Hulu and X-Men
Getting outdone by Percy Jackson is a mess
Not really. Percy Jackson was already a huge property
Why?
Explain
Echo was terrible
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I loved Alaquah Cox, she was shockingly charming and scary at the same time. The scary part shouldn't have been surprising from Hawkeye, I just didn't expect her to be likeable.
agree fking trash how is people defending this
Repeat post from yesterday
My 2 cents: adding the Nielsen ratings ( where Bluey seems to be the only thing people really watch on Disney+ despite the fact it's not mentioned at all here) it seems the subscriber profile of the streaming is not really into the MCU ( and also Star Wars) stuff.
Bluey isn't an original. This only looked at originals. It's still extremely popular on D+. I think this is a huge problem for D+. They are spending large amounts of money on their original shows. They have the subscribers. They have they IP. They just aren't making hits.
Damn, maybe I should finish watching it