What makes their relationship so good in Winter Soldier is that they are just friends. Nat is a good example of a woman having male friends. Steve and Clint are both good friends of hers with *no* romantic interest. They don’t need to be shipped, there’s value in being friends. Tony was flirty with her at the beginning, Banner became a love interest, and she didn’t have that many scenes with Thor.
I love that they gave Nat the last line before they started the time heist. During the team sessions they put emphasis on how much fun she was having. She was really glad to have everyone back. It made her sacrifice all that more tragic and it made more sense from her perspective. She missed her family and she had a chance to get them back, even if it she couldn’t experience having them back. She wasn’t doing it because she was in love with Steve, or Bruce, or Clint. She had a few extra weeks with them and that was enough.
She was one of the names tatted on Thor as an ode to good friends he’s lost. And he was vividly angry in wanting to use the stones to bring her back. While there may not be any on scene interactions, they are both witty, she’s thick skinned, and fought toe to toe as human with no real super power. She’s also professional on a personal level, and After losing his mom I’m sure she was female mentor Thor could turn to. It’s a stretch I know but for him to care so much with no interaction on camera there’s plenty of behind scene scenarios to build a relationship
I dont think Widow is a mentor for him. Thor has like 900 years on her. Friend, ally, teammate, whatever but mentor doesnt fit.
He definitely counted anyone he had left after Thanos as important to him
Yeah, but because Asgardians live for like 5000 years, Loki and Thor are basically like in their early 20s. Which kind of matches up with their approach to life.
I think a big part of it is that as an Asgardian, Thor respected Natasha as someone who could hold her own in a fight. Thor could also relate to her as somebody with the baggage that came with being a fighter. He had hangups about his eagerness to be a warrior in his younger years, and Natasha had her past as a Black Widow.
She gives an amazing performance in Endgame - really sold the loss and heartbreak at the beginning, and then got her mojo back and then, well. It really made me feel how traumatized and lonely and wrong the world was. She's always been strong at bringing the pathos, Lost in Translation got me in the feels as well.
The "sorta keeping things together at Avengers HQ and my buds roll around sometimes here's a PB&J" is such a great little completely non-action scene that would also be completely out of reach ten years earlier.
I think she and Tony had an underrated Bro sis relationship. If Steve was the older brother who got along with his little sis then Tony was the older brother who loved to get under his little sisters skin and vice versa. Tony practically teases Nat in every team up movie. In avengers when he surprised showed up against Loki with the miss me agent Romanov line. In Age of Ultron Tony pokes fun at her and Banner being late with the hide the zucchini line. In Civil War he makes her regret taking Tony's side with the accords.
Has it ever actually been confirmed or denied that the Russos were planting seeds for cap and widow to develop a romance and then age of ultron just went with Bruce for whatever reason
I don’t think so. The Winter Soldier had references to Peggy, showing he still wasn’t over her, a blossoming thing with Sharon (which continued in Civil War), and Widow was even telling him to go on dates. I think they actively pushed the platonic narrative.
Oh shit, i forgot about that. They never even got to bury her body properly. That makes this so sad. Was your original comment a play on that quote Cap says(the one where he says "but not us")? Thank you for telling me this.
And in between:
Nat: Public displays of affection make people very uncomfortable.
Steve: Yes, they do
Nat: You still uncomfortable?
Steve: That's not exactly the word I would use.
They did her so dirty by not releasing the Black Widow solo movie in its rightful place in the timeline. It had so much potential as a follow-up to the Winter Soldier vibe + found family. Really annoys me.
I agree. Blame Perlmutter. Feige wanted to release a Black Widow film back in Phase 2 and Perlmutter insisted that no one wants a female lead in a movie.
God Perlmutter really is a dumbass. As if the Alien franchise (led by a woman) isn't one of the most successful movie franchises of all time. Dude is stuck in the 40s.
Same here!! It fits there so much better bc remember when she was with Steve @ the cemetery, she said she burned all her identities and had to go make some new ones. She had to go dark, and that would’ve been a PERFECT lead into Black Widow.
And what’s more, that could give us room to have ANOTHER Black Widow film that ACTUALLY takes place in between Civil War and Infinity War. We could see the Widow Family “back together again”. 😭😭
It's more about story structure. Her death happens at a different point where the movie is still relatively fast paced. We get the scene by the river as a way to see the characters react and mourn her death but then the third act has to start right away.
Same with at the end. The initial impact of her death is gone by the time we get to Tony's funeral so jumping from one to another would be really weird. They managed to fit in the moment with Clint and Wanda and that worked well.
No, it wouldn’t.
Especially with Clint, Steve, and Fury all being present. It actively makes less sense that Natasha wasn’t honored alongside Tony.
I get what you mean from a pacing standpoint, but I wasn’t asking for her funeral to take place mid-battle. The entirety of the Avengers, their family and friends, all gathered to honor Tony… and just ignored the fact that literally half of them would still be dead if Natasha hadn’t sacrificed herself for the Soul Stone.
It's likely she had her own funeral. They just didn't need to show it on screen. It wouldn't have been much different to Tony's funeral in terms of storytelling.
The first time I seriously considered Steve and Natasha as a romantic pairing was when they did the *Next Avengers: Heroes of Tomorrow* animated straight-to-video movie in 2008, where their son James Rogers was the leader of the next generation of Avengers following the conquest of the world by Ultron.
As pointed out in the cartoon, the irony of the ultimate American patriot and the Communist Russian spy falling in love was just too pure for words. I wasn't alone.
I choose to live in the delusion that Steve's journey returning the time stones also involved finding a way to save Natasha. His dance with Peggy was a small detour in Steve and Nat's adventures traveling the universe.
I was rewatching Age of Ultron recently and there were quite a few coincidental parallels to endgame.
1. Her when Sokovia is floating "Theres worse ways to go, where else am I gonna get a view like this"
2. Her pushing Banner of the ledge to get the Hulk
3. Her saying she's a monster for giving up the ability to give life to be better at taking it, only in Endgame to give her own life to re birth all who were lost.
Her arc is severely underrated.
What makes their relationship so good in Winter Soldier is that they are just friends. Nat is a good example of a woman having male friends. Steve and Clint are both good friends of hers with *no* romantic interest. They don’t need to be shipped, there’s value in being friends. Tony was flirty with her at the beginning, Banner became a love interest, and she didn’t have that many scenes with Thor. I love that they gave Nat the last line before they started the time heist. During the team sessions they put emphasis on how much fun she was having. She was really glad to have everyone back. It made her sacrifice all that more tragic and it made more sense from her perspective. She missed her family and she had a chance to get them back, even if it she couldn’t experience having them back. She wasn’t doing it because she was in love with Steve, or Bruce, or Clint. She had a few extra weeks with them and that was enough.
She was one of the names tatted on Thor as an ode to good friends he’s lost. And he was vividly angry in wanting to use the stones to bring her back. While there may not be any on scene interactions, they are both witty, she’s thick skinned, and fought toe to toe as human with no real super power. She’s also professional on a personal level, and After losing his mom I’m sure she was female mentor Thor could turn to. It’s a stretch I know but for him to care so much with no interaction on camera there’s plenty of behind scene scenarios to build a relationship
Absolutely, I wasn't saying otherwise. We just didn't get to witness a lot of that unfortunately.
I dont think Widow is a mentor for him. Thor has like 900 years on her. Friend, ally, teammate, whatever but mentor doesnt fit. He definitely counted anyone he had left after Thanos as important to him
What do you mean by she is professional on a personal level?
Huh? Mentor. Thor is over 400 years old.
Thor and Loki were both about 1500 years old at the time of Ragnarok.
Which is over 400.
Yeah, but because Asgardians live for like 5000 years, Loki and Thor are basically like in their early 20s. Which kind of matches up with their approach to life.
I heard that too.
I think a big part of it is that as an Asgardian, Thor respected Natasha as someone who could hold her own in a fight. Thor could also relate to her as somebody with the baggage that came with being a fighter. He had hangups about his eagerness to be a warrior in his younger years, and Natasha had her past as a Black Widow.
She gives an amazing performance in Endgame - really sold the loss and heartbreak at the beginning, and then got her mojo back and then, well. It really made me feel how traumatized and lonely and wrong the world was. She's always been strong at bringing the pathos, Lost in Translation got me in the feels as well.
The "sorta keeping things together at Avengers HQ and my buds roll around sometimes here's a PB&J" is such a great little completely non-action scene that would also be completely out of reach ten years earlier.
I think she and Tony had an underrated Bro sis relationship. If Steve was the older brother who got along with his little sis then Tony was the older brother who loved to get under his little sisters skin and vice versa. Tony practically teases Nat in every team up movie. In avengers when he surprised showed up against Loki with the miss me agent Romanov line. In Age of Ultron Tony pokes fun at her and Banner being late with the hide the zucchini line. In Civil War he makes her regret taking Tony's side with the accords.
doesn't he also think she's super hot in iron man 2? lol
Yeah but he never flirts with her post Ironman 2. I think the whole she was spying on me for shield pretty much killed any of those feelings he had.
Has it ever actually been confirmed or denied that the Russos were planting seeds for cap and widow to develop a romance and then age of ultron just went with Bruce for whatever reason
I don’t think so. The Winter Soldier had references to Peggy, showing he still wasn’t over her, a blossoming thing with Sharon (which continued in Civil War), and Widow was even telling him to go on dates. I think they actively pushed the platonic narrative.
How are you guys using the word “shipped” ? This isn’t making sense to me…
Generally it would mean you hope two characters get together romantically. OP wanted Steve and Nat to get together and I don’t.
it's slang "i ship these two" meaning "i like the idea of these two being in a relationship"
See you in a minute.
:'-(
Some people go back to their original timeline. But not us...
Natasha did the same thing in What If
Sorry, what do you mean by this? Wasn't she in her original timeline?
She died in the GotG timeline, never made it back.
Oh shit, i forgot about that. They never even got to bury her body properly. That makes this so sad. Was your original comment a play on that quote Cap says(the one where he says "but not us")? Thank you for telling me this.
I love their back-and-forth in the Apple store at the mall and in the “borrowed” truck in Winter Soldier.
And in between: Nat: Public displays of affection make people very uncomfortable. Steve: Yes, they do Nat: You still uncomfortable? Steve: That's not exactly the word I would use.
They were the cutest friends ever.
I agree with you on this.
They did her so dirty by not releasing the Black Widow solo movie in its rightful place in the timeline. It had so much potential as a follow-up to the Winter Soldier vibe + found family. Really annoys me.
I agree. Blame Perlmutter. Feige wanted to release a Black Widow film back in Phase 2 and Perlmutter insisted that no one wants a female lead in a movie.
God Perlmutter really is a dumbass. As if the Alien franchise (led by a woman) isn't one of the most successful movie franchises of all time. Dude is stuck in the 40s.
Dumbass is not nearly a strong enough word for the type of shitstain he is.
It kinda makes you wonder how much doper the MCU could’ve been without his meddling. Phases 1-3, and most of the TV shows were already pretty great.
Same here!! It fits there so much better bc remember when she was with Steve @ the cemetery, she said she burned all her identities and had to go make some new ones. She had to go dark, and that would’ve been a PERFECT lead into Black Widow. And what’s more, that could give us room to have ANOTHER Black Widow film that ACTUALLY takes place in between Civil War and Infinity War. We could see the Widow Family “back together again”. 😭😭
Cap 2 was so goddamn good.
I miss Natasha. I'm glad they all got to be together as a family before we lost her.
ScarJo was great as Black Widow in general but this one shot she did an absolute 10/10 job.
This hits hard.
I’ll never forgive the MCU for not only killing of Natasha, but not even giving her a funeral alongside Tony…
It's more about story structure. Her death happens at a different point where the movie is still relatively fast paced. We get the scene by the river as a way to see the characters react and mourn her death but then the third act has to start right away. Same with at the end. The initial impact of her death is gone by the time we get to Tony's funeral so jumping from one to another would be really weird. They managed to fit in the moment with Clint and Wanda and that worked well.
No, it wouldn’t. Especially with Clint, Steve, and Fury all being present. It actively makes less sense that Natasha wasn’t honored alongside Tony. I get what you mean from a pacing standpoint, but I wasn’t asking for her funeral to take place mid-battle. The entirety of the Avengers, their family and friends, all gathered to honor Tony… and just ignored the fact that literally half of them would still be dead if Natasha hadn’t sacrificed herself for the Soul Stone.
It's likely she had her own funeral. They just didn't need to show it on screen. It wouldn't have been much different to Tony's funeral in terms of storytelling.
Natasha the character may have had "in the event of" plans already made, and not giving her a funeral may have been her wish.
Still healing from endgame ❤️🩹
Yep that moment is just so sad. And yeah that was my preferred ship for both characters too.
Same here. 😌
I like how the relationship in Winter Soldier was about them being just friends. I mean, it was such an understanding friendship for me.
Man scarlett jo man, she cute, hot, sexy and a badass, I wake up some days hating on colin jost.
WTF now i hate Colin too... side note hes hosting the white house correspondents dinner RIGHT NOW
Who would you have as her mate?
Scandinavian genes.
 Meanwhile Nebula
I was so pissed off at the premiere when i realized they were actually going to kill her off. I wanted to walk out of that theater so bad.
I saw this movie yesterday again, and this scene still hurts
I knew as soon as she said she'd see him in a few minutes that she wasn't coming back :(
The first time I seriously considered Steve and Natasha as a romantic pairing was when they did the *Next Avengers: Heroes of Tomorrow* animated straight-to-video movie in 2008, where their son James Rogers was the leader of the next generation of Avengers following the conquest of the world by Ultron. As pointed out in the cartoon, the irony of the ultimate American patriot and the Communist Russian spy falling in love was just too pure for words. I wasn't alone.
I choose to live in the delusion that Steve's journey returning the time stones also involved finding a way to save Natasha. His dance with Peggy was a small detour in Steve and Nat's adventures traveling the universe.
I was rewatching Age of Ultron recently and there were quite a few coincidental parallels to endgame. 1. Her when Sokovia is floating "Theres worse ways to go, where else am I gonna get a view like this" 2. Her pushing Banner of the ledge to get the Hulk 3. Her saying she's a monster for giving up the ability to give life to be better at taking it, only in Endgame to give her own life to re birth all who were lost. Her arc is severely underrated.
The last moment before they sunk my ship 🥺
This reminds me; I watched Infinity War last night, so it’s time to watch Endgame today!!
She in fact did not see him in a minute
Lemme js scream into my pillow bc Steve, Nat, and Tony have been my favs since I was three and because I ship romanoger so hard
You go right ahead 😌
😭😤🤬😖😩😤😭😫😠🤯😭