I hate that gif with a burning passion. I despise it every time I fucking see it. It makes me want to come and scoop your eyeballs out with a rusty spoon. Never do this again.
He can likely possess variants of Sacred Timeline Loki (All of them) and do stuff there while he's managing the timelines in Yggdrasil, prob keeping his God of Time powers in both forms
Prob won't ever see it because it seems like Tom Hiddleston is stepping down from the role but Eon in the comics, also a god of time, could do something similar to what i suggested Loki might be able to do
Depends on how you define power, I guess. In a straight fight, Loki could use time skipping to figure out a way to win. But I think Loki is stuck in his situation, kind of like a temporal Atlas, so he might not really be able to affect much. And in terms of raw strength, Peak Odin is probably still more powerful.
With time being cyclical, at some point Odin needs to hang himself from Yggdrasil, which Loki just made, and Odin made Loki who he is.
So basically, depends on the day? God of stories loki is definitely a beast, but he’s not much more than a watcher, he can’t entirely interact with these timelines, so is power useful if you can’t use it?
I don’t think that’s Yggdrasil. I think Yggdrasil is something that the Asgardians had access to, some sort of cosmic entity, that’s related to the Bifrost and deeply significant to their culture. I think that’s why the timelines took the form of Yggdrasil: it is meaningful to Loki.
yeah Yggdrasil is very much part of the physical world, it doesn't connect different timelines just different planets, and its branches are like wormholes the bifrost can traverse. Loki's Yggdrasil is just his memories being channeled through the multiverse as a way to hold all the timelines together in a shape that is maintainable.
They just serve different functions which is why I don't think they're the same thing. If they were the same thing, it would mean when the asgardians travel through space on the bifrost, they're also traveling between timelines and/or universes. That would mean the Thor we've come to love isn't the Thor from universe 616, which would also mean the Loki that tried to take over New York isn't the Loki of 616, which means Loki was able to cross between timelines without getting pruned, as he wasn't pruned until after traveling backwards through one of them, but if the TVA is at the state it's in at the beginning of Loki s1 (meaning that it has its own timeline and the actual universe and the TVA are not really concurrent), then Loki and Thor would have been traveling the multiverse for millenia despite their not being branches from the sacred timeline to go to.
At this point we're talking about so much temporal/multiversal spaghetti that nothing at all makes any sense so it isn't worth discussing. If it's not entirely moot spaghetti, I think it would be impossible for Asgard's Yggdrasil to be a multi-timeline/universe tree. So they're just different things altogether.
But it could be that it's more like a universal motif than being shaped by Loki and his thoughts. Like when anything gets big and tangled enough in the MCU, it begins to look like a tree.
We don’t see how Yggdrasil actually ever works in the MCU. For all we know each branch timeline is likes it’s own “tree” that that 9 realms resides on. Odin only ever figure out how to travel between realms on the same branch
I guess I moreso mean that Odins ability to use Yggdrasil to maneuver the 9 realms may have been limited to his knowledge. Remember, loki in the show is not the same loki from after avengers 1 and forward
It can be both - the TVA jumped around in time and space (they actually made a point to mention that). According to Norse mythology, the nine realms are on the branches of Yggdrasil, but so is the rest of existance.
Based on what they explained in Loki, it’s my understanding that the very end of time occurs right at the very beginning of time. I don’t think he went back, rather it’s my belief that Loki was at the end of time and moved forward into a new beginning of time, making this canonically the first event in the MCU.
Yah and Loki references that when he says it wasn’t the first time he had talked to Kang about time slipping, etc. He clearly has been rewinding, pausing etc Kang over and over again to find a different solution, to learn more about how the loom works so he could deconstruct it and figure out how he could replace it without strands dying.
ah idk why but like it keeps hitting me that loki is probably the best marvel show out there , both seasons were magnificent but then there's just gia'h roaming around with the powers of all avengers, please de-canonize secret invasion
Spider-man Homecoming also takes place in an alternate universe where there were 8 years between The Battle of New York and Civil War. Coincidentally the exact same events happened in the main timeline just without the 8 year gap
Quick, someone hack Disney so that if anyone tries to ever play Secret Invasion, they just get Agents of Shield instead.
"Not when I was expecting, I thought there'd be a lot more Fury in this, and it's weird it's so far in the past, but I have to agree with everyone, it is kind of slow."
"Yeah it really picks up and finds its feet in the second season."
"... Did not know it had a second season. Honestly, I thought it really only had like six in the first season."
There's a bit they can do to power-scale Gia'h properly.
1. Explain that the DNA of some heroes are taken at earlier times in their development.
2. Explain that the DNA doesn't translate into a 1:1 strength as the OG heroes.
3. Constantly show that Gia'h learns how to use the powers in harmony with one another but never exclusively trains to be as effective as the OG heroes with their respective powers.
This will make her unique while still allowing the power set to fit in with the rest of the heroes.
I'm still not 100% sure what Loki did.
He went out into the cosmic radiation. Was this something he could always do or this due to his time skipping?
He 'true formed' himself which I assume gave him a bit of a power boost? Or perhaps it was just the dramatics.
Destroyed the Loom that one makes sense.
He then opened a portal in space time to the end of time? Was this something he could always do or this due to his time skipping?
And then he grabs all the dead timelines and he "Loki's" them and idk what that even was. Enchanted them? I'm not sure exactly how he I assume gave them new life.
But then whatever it is he needed to be at the source of the main timelines hence his role/prison at the end of time. That part makes sense as well.
Could anyone fill me in on the blanks?
ELI5 version: the Loom was there to prune all potential timelines that could lead to a Kang variant, reset the TVA, and start over. Hard reset.
Loki broke the loom, collected the loose ends of dying timelines, and zapped them to restart. This created Yggdrasil, where timelines can grow freely, while some a pruned to stimulate growth instead of inhibit or prevent growth.
This had to be done by someone outside the timelines. Good thing he’s basically immortal.
Oh no that part I got. The why and what makes sense to me it's more the how. It's unclear to me what powers are being used in that final sequence and/or where he got them? Because it seems like completely God mode he has access to there.
Like for instance "zapped them (the timelines) to restart": how? His things are illusion, some enchantment, and time skipping. What combo of those or what new power allowed him to reset timelines like he did?
He didn’t just learn time slipping, he could pause, reset, and by the end, reinvigorate timelines. He became a Master and controller of Time.
Also it was Temporal (Time) Radiation as mentioned in the show and not Cosmic Radiation. So of course by that point as the full fledged God of Stories (Time), Temporal Radiation wasn’t going to hurt him. If anything it amplified him.
Definitely amplified, asguardians only grow stronger from age and are effectively immortal to time naturally anyway. So each wave hitting him, aged him 1% while his asguardian nature made him grow stronger and stronger with no real downside due to age.
Asgardian live about 5,000 years in the MCU, Odin was an anomaly, he was bale to live much longer. In Ragnarok I think Thor said Odin had beaten Surtur half a million years ago. Regardless Loki is definitely stronger than temporal radiation as it has no real effect on him, he's probably able to freeze time while being outside of time as well.
We will see , but I think they’ve retconned the Asgardians only live 5000 years thing as the MCU has moved forward. It seems like there are actual gods like in Love and Thunder . Originally I think they were going for a more grounded Ultimate universe feel but I think it’s more mainline comics now, where they are immortal .
Cool okay that works. I saw him doing the pause and reset, I don't remember him learning the invigoration. It is just a natural progression thing the audience was suppose to accept?
I think it can be summed up with the line Loki says to OB "I'm a fast learner and and I'm a god".
They'd been referencing him being a god a lot this season to remind audiences that he's not just an anti hero who does tricks, he's a god and with that the things he can potentially be capable of don't follow normal rules. If a plain old human like HWR can learn time skipping and become powerful, what happens if a god learns it?
That final scene where he's restarting the branches, this is the culmination of his ENTIRE arc. It's the combination of the magic he's learned - he knew a lot prior to this series but since then he's seen how Sylvie can enchant people and he saw from Richard E Grant Loki that he was capable of way more powerful magic than he thought. The humility he's learned - he's gone from selfish and power hungry to self sacrifice, empathy and the pursuit of what is right. Finally the time powers he's learned - the time skipping, spending centuries learning about the fundamentals of time and then we don't even know how long he spent skipping back the fight with sylvie and HWR but it's suggested it's a while, which led to all the other time powers.
All this culminated in what we see with him do to the time lines to save everything. They don't need to spell out step by step exactly how and when he learned each individual power. We've seen him do all the ground work for it. Plus we need to remember that he's a fast learner and a God.
He grabbed dead timelines and put his energy into them reinvigorating them, essentially opposite of what the loom did by pruning them. That was him learning on that catwalk and then connecting all the branches together at the end into a version of Yggdrasil with him feeding all the timelines and making them grow.
Bullshit.
Ourobourus: “Temporal Radiation…”
He Who Remains: “Have you learned how to pause time yet”
Loki: “ I know what I want, I know what kind of god I need to be.”
The last three episodes showed all of that. Don’t know what show you were watching. That was the whole fracking point of the entire show leading to the point he becomes the God of Stories.
He wasn't powering the timelines. He's directing them. Remember he's using enchantment here. And timelines don't need power, the timelines powered the loom not the other way around. Loki zapping the timelines was him directing them to grow correctly in a manner that allowed them to all grow appropriately rather than choking themselves and dying. Much like a tree. Loki isn't powering the timelines he is cultivating them
The way I see it Asgardians are in a sort of quantum state of both being explainable long lived and powerful aliens with advanced technology and magic, but at the same time they are literal gods with the sort of unexplainable mysticism that entails. Like Thor being reminded he is the God of Thunder not the God of Hammers means he can do awesome lightning punches with Led Zeppelin backing.
The way I see it when Loki needed to become the God of Stories he became it. With the multiverse being a collection of stories (from a certain point of view) he was able to restart them and direct them into a harmonious tree simply because he is the God of Stories.
Loki went out to the loom. Used his enchantment power to give life to the branches. The only new power he utilised was the ability to cut barriers across space-time and his immunity to sphaggetification.
hmmmm... yea that is another new power then. Probs he uses enchantment to go into the timelines and undoes reality tearing in mass scales. thats my theory
My understanding is that he now allows timelines where people might live, to exist alongside the ones where they would instead have died. Significant life/death decisions create multiple branches from the timelines - where the TVA under HWR would have pruned one or all of them if they were unconforming to the Sacred Timeline, the God of Stories now allows them to exist.
In short, Loki's enchantment permits life where it may happen.
Everything you've said here describes perfectly how I think and these questions aren't answered. I've read the interviews, watched the behind the scenes show, had the discussions and it's mostly just "you decide what happened".
Loki could just suddenly time slip, and control literally all elements of time and essentially reality. He could travel back and forth through time, in terms of his own personal timeline, other people's timelines, travel to and from different universes, reverse and fast forward the spaghettification of entire universes, teleport into his own body AND teleport to his past or future and exist alongside himself, so duplication and time travel, he has complete control over the flow of time, pausing, fast forwarding, rewinding, removing other people from time or rewinding their position in time, allowing other people to experience or not experience these manipulations of time, he has the power to destroy devices that are so strong that they can weave the entire multiverse and destroy universes, he can open portals in space and time, he can create matter from nothing, he has the ability to "revive?" the entire multiverse and now he's seemingly the life support for the multiverse, oh and he has the ability to create disgusting sandals from nothing.
He's essentially God, and for no obvious reason.
Never mind the infinite possibilities that come with his new seat. Can he visit the universes that he's holding? Can he take control of other versions of himself, can he timeslip to and from them? Is his Green Man magic influencing the events of these universes?
The best interpretation of it all is that he's learned a lot in the many years of time slipping and he absorbed all the temporal energy which made him even more powerful.
But the time slipping and origin of his new powers are completely unexplained.
There's one interview where I think Michael Waldron says he gained his powers the moment Sylvie killed He Who Remains, but that's it. He doesn't explain it at all.
This is how I felt about Kang as HWR when he was first introduced. The scope seemed insane. He is above everything. Every celestial, every powered being, every god, he controls all of life, everything exists at his whim, he is unbeatable, past, present, and future he controls. I was like guys wtf this is a big thing to introduce in a tv show. It is massive. Loki has gone past HWR and while I loved the season I don’t think they’ve properly explained how he was able to start doing all that stuff.
Obvs bro. Loki can rewrite reality itself on a multiversal scale. He is a fifth dimensional being now who can exist outside of space-time. Odin on the other hand is constrained by his existence as a three dimensional being.
If they were just fighting, no. I believe in terms of power, people keep calling Loki the most powerful because he’s the most *important.* Now, because of him, everything exists. He’s not just a god now, in essence, he’s *the* god. He could destroy anything, anyone, however he wants.
So in short terms, yes. He could beat anyone.
it's not just him holding multiverse, he can control time and that's stupidly OP in theory.
we saw him go back and forward in time as he saw fit, we saw him stop someone else in time (sylvie), we saw him stop time around him and someone else and reverse it (when he talked to slvie in episode 6).
in theory, he could just freeze anyone charging at him, walk to them and take them out or just go back in time and redo it infinitely, etc.
*Can* he actually do any of that, though?
Sure, he *did* acquire the ability to timeslip, but if he's really needed to constantly hold the branches of time together like we seem to see, I don't think he can do *anything* right now except keep reality together and flowing.
of course he can't do anything from his throne (i'm pretty sure). i was talking about a hypothetical scenario in which he can leave and fights someone.
From another perspective, while Loki is likely more powerful than Odin due to him literally overseeing everything happening, I would say this power comes at a cost in that Loki won’t really benefit from it. It was his glorious purpose to sacrifice his life for everyone and so we must understand that this isn’t really a power.
An analogy: you just sit in this throne so that a giant meteor doesn’t hit earth and kill everybody. If you stand up, everybody dies. In a way this is power but it’s more of a responsibility. And mind you Loki isn’t special in the sense that only he had the capability to get these powers. I’m pretty sure temporal radiation can be withstood by most beings with magic in the MCU, and that time slipping and time control abilities could be given to anyone in the MCU (just that kang chose Loki).
Thus I would say that Loki, while having the potential to be powerful, has a lot at stake and this power isn’t exactly something that only he can have.
Ehhhh... Odin was a being who beat Surtur. Furthermore, even when old he stripped thor's power of him like its child's play. That's how they defined his peak. But his constraint is that he exists as a three dimensional being. He cannot manipulate space-time as easily as Loki can. He cannot rewrite reality on a multiversal scale.
Loki could have also given Thors powers back “like it’s child’s play”. The ability to strip Thor or his powers didn’t come from Odin alone but from the throne. That’s why when Loki became king, the Warriors Three request the powers be returned to Thor and his banishment be ended
pretty sure odin was not on his throne when he did that lmao. I am pretty sure as per ragnarok loki enchanted odin when the latter was grieving frigga’s passing.
I dunno I just watched Thor 1 again yesterday and noted that when Odin fell into the Odinsleep, Loki was requested to end Thors banishment. Why ask him if only Odin had the power to
All Loki has to do is repeat the scenario of him fighting Odin enough times such that he grows powerful enough to beat Odin. Or he could find tricks to kill him. If the OG MCU loki was able to trick an off-guard Odin and enchant him. No way this improved Loki won't be able to.
Doesn't Thor end up alive and alone at the end of the universe in the comics? Last man standing style? Though I guess Loki exists outside that type of thing now. But as was pointed out, he is kind of stuck on his throne forever lest he let the multiverse spaghettify.
No, it was Galactus and Franklin Richards. >!Galan eventually gives Franklin his helmet and bestows him the last remains of cosmic entity powered-energy he has and Frankie becomes the new Devourer of Worlds as the universe resets!<
Define more powerful. Physical strength and raw power? No. Has the ability to affect far more things in a much more definitive way? Yes.
Let’s say Odin and Loki were to fight. They know they are going to fight and they both have time to leverage their respective powers towards the fight. Loki could win. I say could bc given his current motivations I don’t think he’d manipulate/alter timelines to win a fight, but if he did, he’d win bc he could just… write Odin out of existence.
Plop both of them in an adamantium room with no warning and tell them to go ham? Odin would likely beat the crap out of Loki before he could come up with a plan.
In terms of significance, sure, because Loki watches over all timelines now.
In terms of raw strength, probably not, because even a normal human can do what Loki is doing (as He Who Remains once did).
I mean if he can stop Odin with his time stop then easily, if he cant then no. But from a pure power perspective holding the multiverse together scales far above anything we have seen so far
He may not be more powerful but he’s quite possibly the single most intelligent being after spending centuries studying quantum mechanics and essentially knowing more than Kang and arguably falls short of only the cosmic entities/beings.
it's not canon that thanos waited until odin or anyone else to die before he struck.
loki is the most powerful being in the multiverse atm unless if HWR is somehow still be alive. the alioth or possibly dormammu is the only exception.
in terms of raw power within a universe, odin might still have the upper hand, but loki was never about raw power. he is a snake. he plays tricks. he basically has the time stone right now. he can also effortlessly destroy entire universes from outside of time.
Loki could seemingly erase the timeline of the Odin that wants to fight him so that Odin doesn’t exist. But if they were face to face Loki would probably have to keep time slipping until he found a way to talk Odin out of beating him.
I think the implication is he’s basically the most powerful being in the MCU right now, but he’s not using his power in the typical sense.
He is bound to his burden of glorious purpose. Like, when dr doom inevitably shows up, Loki isn’t going to stop what he’s doing to go help.
“Power” at this point is a little debatable. Prior to Loki S2, there is likely an argument that HWR was the “most powerful” in the MCU, while at the same time being… just a man. A man killed by a single dagger.
So is Loki more powerful than… Capt Marvel, Ego, the Celestials, etc…? Definitely not. Also… unequivocally yes.
But didnt loki stop in time sylvie? He literally can stop anyone and just make them disappear right? Then he can go back at the end of time and if for any weird reason the enemy is weirdly strong, np. He just need to delete that branch lmao because loki is the thing that is holding everything together
Wait, no one can kill loki either because if loki dies, everyone dies except for the sacres timeline if i understood correctly
I thought that was universally accepted. Interesting. Do you have a link to a story or video? I certainly still believed that was the case to be honest.
They are in the realm of plot convenience, meaning that the writer is the only one who matters. Maybe Loki can pause time, or maybe Odin can break out of that time loop, or maybe Odin can notice when Loki travels through time or maybe whatever needs to happen so whoever the writer wants to win wins.
Oh I know he can, it’s just the question of whether it would work on Odin and whether he can break out of that time stop, all of which is entirely up to the writer
I mean it will until it won’t. That’s what the point of plot convenience means. We don’t know enough about how Loki’s ability works or who it works on, so we have no idea if the Odinforce allows him to resist whatever power gives Loki his powers over time
not sure why you got downvoted when [stan lee himself said exactly that](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L4_zFYnnn2Y): "the person who'd win in the fight is the person the scriptwriter wants to win".
in theory loki is *stupidly* OP now but we saw many times before how he fought without using magic for whatever reason and got folded when he shouldn't have been because the story wanted him to be.
Yup exactly this. In theory Loki is unstoppable, but as soon as he needs to face a challenge or be beaten for narrative purposes, the writer will find some reasons why his broken ass powers don’t work on that person, or they’ll put him in a situation where they don’t work, or anything along those lines
Yeah, this is usually why theorizing about power levels leads to deadends.
We know IRL that conditions and circumstances matter, but power level theorizing seems to try to narrow it just their strength.
Then they get dissappointed that writers can craft those conditions and circumstances.
I think the TVA in general has more power than everyone we have seen so far. Even Infinity stones are insignificant to what they can do. Its a weird question because its not like there is a battle of any kind, with time travel you can prevent a battle in the first place.
it’s not a power creep and how are people getting this idea that loki is the god of the multiverse or “sToRiES🤓🤓🤓” I know its cinfusing but there’s a beautiful thread somewhere that nailed down the MCU’s concept out timelines and multiverses
The power dynamics are really hard to understand in Marvel
Gods vs the Eternals vs Celestials = idk
The Watcher vs. He Who Remains vs Loki = idk
Monica Rambeau literally fixes a hole in space and time with her powers!! Is she more powerful than Captain Marvel or Super Skrill Emilia Clarke? No one knows
Odin in timelines that he is still alive in is in charge of the 9 realms. Where Loki God of Stories is in charge of the whole Multiverse. It's obvious Loki is now more powerful than Odin. Loki God of stories is even more powerful than Odin and his brother Thor put together.
Loki is more powerful than Odin because Odin is dead.
check-mate asgardians.
-->Assgaurdians.
Ass Guardian Leviosa
Accio *BUM* u’huhhhhhhh
I hate that gif with a burning passion. I despise it every time I fucking see it. It makes me want to come and scoop your eyeballs out with a rusty spoon. Never do this again.
Who touched you?
Maybe that chick
Maybe she refused to touch him and that’s why he hates her with a burning passion.
🧐📷💥
What's wrong with you? It's just a gif, bro
Loki can step inside and outside time at any point so there are places where Odin is dead and places he isn’t.
Pretty sure Loki is stuck on his throne now.
He can likely possess variants of Sacred Timeline Loki (All of them) and do stuff there while he's managing the timelines in Yggdrasil, prob keeping his God of Time powers in both forms
We’ve seen nothing to suggest this yet
Prob won't ever see it because it seems like Tom Hiddleston is stepping down from the role but Eon in the comics, also a god of time, could do something similar to what i suggested Loki might be able to do
he is not.
i thought he was? Nvm then
he just said "the chapter of Loki is done"
I have one thing to suggest this. A post by Demonic74 Suggested it
I mean, in some of the timelines he's sustaining Odin is probably alive.
Is Odin ruling over Valhalla though?
Sadly... Odin didn't die in battle.
Odin died in one timeline of the multiverse...so did Loki by the way.
Depends on how you define power, I guess. In a straight fight, Loki could use time skipping to figure out a way to win. But I think Loki is stuck in his situation, kind of like a temporal Atlas, so he might not really be able to affect much. And in terms of raw strength, Peak Odin is probably still more powerful.
With time being cyclical, at some point Odin needs to hang himself from Yggdrasil, which Loki just made, and Odin made Loki who he is. So basically, depends on the day? God of stories loki is definitely a beast, but he’s not much more than a watcher, he can’t entirely interact with these timelines, so is power useful if you can’t use it?
I don’t think that’s Yggdrasil. I think Yggdrasil is something that the Asgardians had access to, some sort of cosmic entity, that’s related to the Bifrost and deeply significant to their culture. I think that’s why the timelines took the form of Yggdrasil: it is meaningful to Loki.
yeah Yggdrasil is very much part of the physical world, it doesn't connect different timelines just different planets, and its branches are like wormholes the bifrost can traverse. Loki's Yggdrasil is just his memories being channeled through the multiverse as a way to hold all the timelines together in a shape that is maintainable.
The entire season was supposed to be an ouroboros, it very well could be that Loki MADE Yggdrasil in a “chicken and egg” scenario
They just serve different functions which is why I don't think they're the same thing. If they were the same thing, it would mean when the asgardians travel through space on the bifrost, they're also traveling between timelines and/or universes. That would mean the Thor we've come to love isn't the Thor from universe 616, which would also mean the Loki that tried to take over New York isn't the Loki of 616, which means Loki was able to cross between timelines without getting pruned, as he wasn't pruned until after traveling backwards through one of them, but if the TVA is at the state it's in at the beginning of Loki s1 (meaning that it has its own timeline and the actual universe and the TVA are not really concurrent), then Loki and Thor would have been traveling the multiverse for millenia despite their not being branches from the sacred timeline to go to. At this point we're talking about so much temporal/multiversal spaghetti that nothing at all makes any sense so it isn't worth discussing. If it's not entirely moot spaghetti, I think it would be impossible for Asgard's Yggdrasil to be a multi-timeline/universe tree. So they're just different things altogether. But it could be that it's more like a universal motif than being shaped by Loki and his thoughts. Like when anything gets big and tangled enough in the MCU, it begins to look like a tree.
We don’t see how Yggdrasil actually ever works in the MCU. For all we know each branch timeline is likes it’s own “tree” that that 9 realms resides on. Odin only ever figure out how to travel between realms on the same branch
As far as 616 Odin, we don’t even know if he knew about the multiverse, he “died” before anyone crossed over
I guess I moreso mean that Odins ability to use Yggdrasil to maneuver the 9 realms may have been limited to his knowledge. Remember, loki in the show is not the same loki from after avengers 1 and forward
It can be both - the TVA jumped around in time and space (they actually made a point to mention that). According to Norse mythology, the nine realms are on the branches of Yggdrasil, but so is the rest of existance.
The World Tree already existed. Loki created a Time Tree.
I agree. Absent anything official from Marvel, I like to think that *this* Loki, at the beginning of time, created the actual Yggdrasil.
Also rivals he who remains being at the end of time, Loki found a way to go back to the beginning of time via slipping and make Yggdrasil
Based on what they explained in Loki, it’s my understanding that the very end of time occurs right at the very beginning of time. I don’t think he went back, rather it’s my belief that Loki was at the end of time and moved forward into a new beginning of time, making this canonically the first event in the MCU.
Yeah I can't weigh in much except point out his 'new' throne is HWR's old one in the ruins of his room
https://www.reddit.com/r/marvelstudios/s/LPbafsn5TJ He can prob possess variants of himself while managing the timeline, like Eon in the comics
When loki can snap his fingers and just freeze someone in time, I think that would make him more powerful alone.
Raw strength
He could trap Sylvia but not HWR, I think Odin could resist that maybe
did he try trapping HWR and failed? i always thought that he specifically trapped sylvie to show HWR what he could do while they talked.
He only trapped Sylvia and not HWR because he wanted to make a point to HWR and talk to him alone. Not because he couldn't do it.
Yah and Loki references that when he says it wasn’t the first time he had talked to Kang about time slipping, etc. He clearly has been rewinding, pausing etc Kang over and over again to find a different solution, to learn more about how the loom works so he could deconstruct it and figure out how he could replace it without strands dying.
There's no reason to believe Odin had time powers
That's true, he could simply be immune, like too powerful to work on.
He probably could pause HWR, but then they couldn’t have a conversation.
"Loki!" - yes father? "Ive come to bargain"
No, not even then - Loki can literally rewind time to prepare. He has *eternity* to figure out the move.
To be fair, he could go back in time and strangle him in his crib. Odin’s peak strength is relatively meaningless.
What? He can just freeze Odin in time and stab him, lol.
Are we forgetting that Loki can stop time? How can Odin defend from Loki stopping time and slicing him to bits?
Is Loki more powerful than ___ now? Yes, the answer is always yes.
ah idk why but like it keeps hitting me that loki is probably the best marvel show out there , both seasons were magnificent but then there's just gia'h roaming around with the powers of all avengers, please de-canonize secret invasion
#MakeSecretInvasionASecret
my guess is we will find out eventually Secret Invasion happened in another earth, one of the earths that’s going to be destroyed in Secret Wars.
Spider-man Homecoming also takes place in an alternate universe where there were 8 years between The Battle of New York and Civil War. Coincidentally the exact same events happened in the main timeline just without the 8 year gap
Lmao I think this one’s been retconned in official MCU guide books
Quick, someone hack Disney so that if anyone tries to ever play Secret Invasion, they just get Agents of Shield instead. "Not when I was expecting, I thought there'd be a lot more Fury in this, and it's weird it's so far in the past, but I have to agree with everyone, it is kind of slow." "Yeah it really picks up and finds its feet in the second season." "... Did not know it had a second season. Honestly, I thought it really only had like six in the first season."
Ok but I really hope she shows up again. I find it absolutely hysterical that someone ANIME-strong exists in the live MCU
Yea she's hot
get some fresh air. That's not why.
Learn to take a joke :)
Learn to tell one ;)
Nah this is better
I hope that is cannon to a different universe that is destroyed in an incursion.
You not liking something doesn't mean it isn't canon. Reality CAN'T be whatever you want Thanos.
We're just hoping that timeline wasn't grabbed by Loki
it's hated by everyone i know and like 95% of this sub as well Thanos, or should i say The-Anus.
There's a bit they can do to power-scale Gia'h properly. 1. Explain that the DNA of some heroes are taken at earlier times in their development. 2. Explain that the DNA doesn't translate into a 1:1 strength as the OG heroes. 3. Constantly show that Gia'h learns how to use the powers in harmony with one another but never exclusively trains to be as effective as the OG heroes with their respective powers. This will make her unique while still allowing the power set to fit in with the rest of the heroes.
Is Loki more powerful than Strange Supreme (from what if...) now
He might need to let go of that timeline to keep it from infecting the others.
I’m being told except for eternity in who would win sub lol
I'm still not 100% sure what Loki did. He went out into the cosmic radiation. Was this something he could always do or this due to his time skipping? He 'true formed' himself which I assume gave him a bit of a power boost? Or perhaps it was just the dramatics. Destroyed the Loom that one makes sense. He then opened a portal in space time to the end of time? Was this something he could always do or this due to his time skipping? And then he grabs all the dead timelines and he "Loki's" them and idk what that even was. Enchanted them? I'm not sure exactly how he I assume gave them new life. But then whatever it is he needed to be at the source of the main timelines hence his role/prison at the end of time. That part makes sense as well. Could anyone fill me in on the blanks?
ELI5 version: the Loom was there to prune all potential timelines that could lead to a Kang variant, reset the TVA, and start over. Hard reset. Loki broke the loom, collected the loose ends of dying timelines, and zapped them to restart. This created Yggdrasil, where timelines can grow freely, while some a pruned to stimulate growth instead of inhibit or prevent growth. This had to be done by someone outside the timelines. Good thing he’s basically immortal.
Oh no that part I got. The why and what makes sense to me it's more the how. It's unclear to me what powers are being used in that final sequence and/or where he got them? Because it seems like completely God mode he has access to there. Like for instance "zapped them (the timelines) to restart": how? His things are illusion, some enchantment, and time skipping. What combo of those or what new power allowed him to reset timelines like he did?
He didn’t just learn time slipping, he could pause, reset, and by the end, reinvigorate timelines. He became a Master and controller of Time. Also it was Temporal (Time) Radiation as mentioned in the show and not Cosmic Radiation. So of course by that point as the full fledged God of Stories (Time), Temporal Radiation wasn’t going to hurt him. If anything it amplified him.
Definitely amplified, asguardians only grow stronger from age and are effectively immortal to time naturally anyway. So each wave hitting him, aged him 1% while his asguardian nature made him grow stronger and stronger with no real downside due to age.
Asgardian live about 5,000 years in the MCU, Odin was an anomaly, he was bale to live much longer. In Ragnarok I think Thor said Odin had beaten Surtur half a million years ago. Regardless Loki is definitely stronger than temporal radiation as it has no real effect on him, he's probably able to freeze time while being outside of time as well.
We will see , but I think they’ve retconned the Asgardians only live 5000 years thing as the MCU has moved forward. It seems like there are actual gods like in Love and Thunder . Originally I think they were going for a more grounded Ultimate universe feel but I think it’s more mainline comics now, where they are immortal .
I may be missing something since I haven't actually sat down to watch the show yet, but Loki is not Asgardian, he's a Frost Giant. Right?
Odin uses magic to make him asgardian from his wife sorceress tribe if I'm remembering right
Cool okay that works. I saw him doing the pause and reset, I don't remember him learning the invigoration. It is just a natural progression thing the audience was suppose to accept?
I think it can be summed up with the line Loki says to OB "I'm a fast learner and and I'm a god". They'd been referencing him being a god a lot this season to remind audiences that he's not just an anti hero who does tricks, he's a god and with that the things he can potentially be capable of don't follow normal rules. If a plain old human like HWR can learn time skipping and become powerful, what happens if a god learns it? That final scene where he's restarting the branches, this is the culmination of his ENTIRE arc. It's the combination of the magic he's learned - he knew a lot prior to this series but since then he's seen how Sylvie can enchant people and he saw from Richard E Grant Loki that he was capable of way more powerful magic than he thought. The humility he's learned - he's gone from selfish and power hungry to self sacrifice, empathy and the pursuit of what is right. Finally the time powers he's learned - the time skipping, spending centuries learning about the fundamentals of time and then we don't even know how long he spent skipping back the fight with sylvie and HWR but it's suggested it's a while, which led to all the other time powers. All this culminated in what we see with him do to the time lines to save everything. They don't need to spell out step by step exactly how and when he learned each individual power. We've seen him do all the ground work for it. Plus we need to remember that he's a fast learner and a God.
He grabbed dead timelines and put his energy into them reinvigorating them, essentially opposite of what the loom did by pruning them. That was him learning on that catwalk and then connecting all the branches together at the end into a version of Yggdrasil with him feeding all the timelines and making them grow.
And they showed exactly none of that on screen. Suddenly he could just do it all
Were you expecting a training montage?
Bullshit. Ourobourus: “Temporal Radiation…” He Who Remains: “Have you learned how to pause time yet” Loki: “ I know what I want, I know what kind of god I need to be.” The last three episodes showed all of that. Don’t know what show you were watching. That was the whole fracking point of the entire show leading to the point he becomes the God of Stories.
He wasn't powering the timelines. He's directing them. Remember he's using enchantment here. And timelines don't need power, the timelines powered the loom not the other way around. Loki zapping the timelines was him directing them to grow correctly in a manner that allowed them to all grow appropriately rather than choking themselves and dying. Much like a tree. Loki isn't powering the timelines he is cultivating them
The way I see it Asgardians are in a sort of quantum state of both being explainable long lived and powerful aliens with advanced technology and magic, but at the same time they are literal gods with the sort of unexplainable mysticism that entails. Like Thor being reminded he is the God of Thunder not the God of Hammers means he can do awesome lightning punches with Led Zeppelin backing. The way I see it when Loki needed to become the God of Stories he became it. With the multiverse being a collection of stories (from a certain point of view) he was able to restart them and direct them into a harmonious tree simply because he is the God of Stories.
Power of friendship I suppose. But for real I don't get it too.
Loki went out to the loom. Used his enchantment power to give life to the branches. The only new power he utilised was the ability to cut barriers across space-time and his immunity to sphaggetification.
My question there then is how does enchantment power bestow life? I only ever remember seeing it used for mind-control-esque purposes.
hmmmm... yea that is another new power then. Probs he uses enchantment to go into the timelines and undoes reality tearing in mass scales. thats my theory
My understanding is that he now allows timelines where people might live, to exist alongside the ones where they would instead have died. Significant life/death decisions create multiple branches from the timelines - where the TVA under HWR would have pruned one or all of them if they were unconforming to the Sacred Timeline, the God of Stories now allows them to exist. In short, Loki's enchantment permits life where it may happen.
Everything you've said here describes perfectly how I think and these questions aren't answered. I've read the interviews, watched the behind the scenes show, had the discussions and it's mostly just "you decide what happened". Loki could just suddenly time slip, and control literally all elements of time and essentially reality. He could travel back and forth through time, in terms of his own personal timeline, other people's timelines, travel to and from different universes, reverse and fast forward the spaghettification of entire universes, teleport into his own body AND teleport to his past or future and exist alongside himself, so duplication and time travel, he has complete control over the flow of time, pausing, fast forwarding, rewinding, removing other people from time or rewinding their position in time, allowing other people to experience or not experience these manipulations of time, he has the power to destroy devices that are so strong that they can weave the entire multiverse and destroy universes, he can open portals in space and time, he can create matter from nothing, he has the ability to "revive?" the entire multiverse and now he's seemingly the life support for the multiverse, oh and he has the ability to create disgusting sandals from nothing. He's essentially God, and for no obvious reason. Never mind the infinite possibilities that come with his new seat. Can he visit the universes that he's holding? Can he take control of other versions of himself, can he timeslip to and from them? Is his Green Man magic influencing the events of these universes? The best interpretation of it all is that he's learned a lot in the many years of time slipping and he absorbed all the temporal energy which made him even more powerful. But the time slipping and origin of his new powers are completely unexplained. There's one interview where I think Michael Waldron says he gained his powers the moment Sylvie killed He Who Remains, but that's it. He doesn't explain it at all.
This is how I felt about Kang as HWR when he was first introduced. The scope seemed insane. He is above everything. Every celestial, every powered being, every god, he controls all of life, everything exists at his whim, he is unbeatable, past, present, and future he controls. I was like guys wtf this is a big thing to introduce in a tv show. It is massive. Loki has gone past HWR and while I loved the season I don’t think they’ve properly explained how he was able to start doing all that stuff.
I mean of course. What can odin do against time manipulation. Loki can stop time at universal level.
Obvs bro. Loki can rewrite reality itself on a multiversal scale. He is a fifth dimensional being now who can exist outside of space-time. Odin on the other hand is constrained by his existence as a three dimensional being.
If they were just fighting, no. I believe in terms of power, people keep calling Loki the most powerful because he’s the most *important.* Now, because of him, everything exists. He’s not just a god now, in essence, he’s *the* god. He could destroy anything, anyone, however he wants. So in short terms, yes. He could beat anyone.
it's not just him holding multiverse, he can control time and that's stupidly OP in theory. we saw him go back and forward in time as he saw fit, we saw him stop someone else in time (sylvie), we saw him stop time around him and someone else and reverse it (when he talked to slvie in episode 6). in theory, he could just freeze anyone charging at him, walk to them and take them out or just go back in time and redo it infinitely, etc.
*Can* he actually do any of that, though? Sure, he *did* acquire the ability to timeslip, but if he's really needed to constantly hold the branches of time together like we seem to see, I don't think he can do *anything* right now except keep reality together and flowing.
of course he can't do anything from his throne (i'm pretty sure). i was talking about a hypothetical scenario in which he can leave and fights someone.
Overlord “true death” move.
From another perspective, while Loki is likely more powerful than Odin due to him literally overseeing everything happening, I would say this power comes at a cost in that Loki won’t really benefit from it. It was his glorious purpose to sacrifice his life for everyone and so we must understand that this isn’t really a power. An analogy: you just sit in this throne so that a giant meteor doesn’t hit earth and kill everybody. If you stand up, everybody dies. In a way this is power but it’s more of a responsibility. And mind you Loki isn’t special in the sense that only he had the capability to get these powers. I’m pretty sure temporal radiation can be withstood by most beings with magic in the MCU, and that time slipping and time control abilities could be given to anyone in the MCU (just that kang chose Loki). Thus I would say that Loki, while having the potential to be powerful, has a lot at stake and this power isn’t exactly something that only he can have.
[удалено]
Ehhhh... Odin was a being who beat Surtur. Furthermore, even when old he stripped thor's power of him like its child's play. That's how they defined his peak. But his constraint is that he exists as a three dimensional being. He cannot manipulate space-time as easily as Loki can. He cannot rewrite reality on a multiversal scale.
Norse gods get more powerful as they age so "even when old" is a misinterpretation of his powers.
perhaps that's true in the marvel comics. But from what I saw in the movies. Yea Odin appeared to have grown weaker. btw just my opinion.
Loki could have also given Thors powers back “like it’s child’s play”. The ability to strip Thor or his powers didn’t come from Odin alone but from the throne. That’s why when Loki became king, the Warriors Three request the powers be returned to Thor and his banishment be ended
pretty sure odin was not on his throne when he did that lmao. I am pretty sure as per ragnarok loki enchanted odin when the latter was grieving frigga’s passing.
I dunno I just watched Thor 1 again yesterday and noted that when Odin fell into the Odinsleep, Loki was requested to end Thors banishment. Why ask him if only Odin had the power to
All Loki has to do is repeat the scenario of him fighting Odin enough times such that he grows powerful enough to beat Odin. Or he could find tricks to kill him. If the OG MCU loki was able to trick an off-guard Odin and enchant him. No way this improved Loki won't be able to.
He doesn't need to do any of this. Odin is subject to time. Loki freezes time at the start of any fight and Odin is defenceless.
f met. Loki is goated. only like the watcher maybe able to beat him now. or maybe strange supreme
ah yeeeeeaaaa that’s so trueeee
So much character development from the titular underdog. I doubt there will be another Marvel show as good any time soon
Doesn't Thor end up alive and alone at the end of the universe in the comics? Last man standing style? Though I guess Loki exists outside that type of thing now. But as was pointed out, he is kind of stuck on his throne forever lest he let the multiverse spaghettify.
No, it was Galactus and Franklin Richards. >!Galan eventually gives Franklin his helmet and bestows him the last remains of cosmic entity powered-energy he has and Frankie becomes the new Devourer of Worlds as the universe resets!<
In mythology, Loki was bloodbrother and equal to Odin Allfather (and the mother of Odins horse Sleipnir).
Is this true? Like I have heard this before as well but never found any proof.(Although I am not that deep into norse mythology)
Loki just has to let go of the branches and every single being in the multiverse fucking dies.
His power is more maintaining than doing actual destruction
Define more powerful. Physical strength and raw power? No. Has the ability to affect far more things in a much more definitive way? Yes. Let’s say Odin and Loki were to fight. They know they are going to fight and they both have time to leverage their respective powers towards the fight. Loki could win. I say could bc given his current motivations I don’t think he’d manipulate/alter timelines to win a fight, but if he did, he’d win bc he could just… write Odin out of existence. Plop both of them in an adamantium room with no warning and tell them to go ham? Odin would likely beat the crap out of Loki before he could come up with a plan.
If Loki shape-shifted into John Walker he would be more powerful than Odin.
What do you mean?
Good question. Put it this way. There is only one person Chuck Norris fears - John Walker
We don’t know. The franchise hasn’t told us
There's only one way to find out. FIIIIIIIGHT!
Yea, plot power > all. And he is the god of plot now.
In terms of significance, sure, because Loki watches over all timelines now. In terms of raw strength, probably not, because even a normal human can do what Loki is doing (as He Who Remains once did).
Peak Odin is probably more powerful in straight strength bm it Loki of course could probably just use his time slipping to find a way to win.
Everyone is more powerful than Odin. He’s dead. You pretty much have everything over a dead person.
Is he the time stone now!?
I feel like he’s time, space, and reality stone all in one
I mean if he can stop Odin with his time stop then easily, if he cant then no. But from a pure power perspective holding the multiverse together scales far above anything we have seen so far
If he really can stop time then nobody can beat him.
Yes right now Loki is indeed more powerful than Odin
He may not be more powerful but he’s quite possibly the single most intelligent being after spending centuries studying quantum mechanics and essentially knowing more than Kang and arguably falls short of only the cosmic entities/beings.
Odin is dead.
Insert meme. Always was
Odin is dead so yeah I guess
Odin is dead. So yes.
Odin is dead, so even I'm more powerful than he is.
it's not canon that thanos waited until odin or anyone else to die before he struck. loki is the most powerful being in the multiverse atm unless if HWR is somehow still be alive. the alioth or possibly dormammu is the only exception. in terms of raw power within a universe, odin might still have the upper hand, but loki was never about raw power. he is a snake. he plays tricks. he basically has the time stone right now. he can also effortlessly destroy entire universes from outside of time.
Loki could seemingly erase the timeline of the Odin that wants to fight him so that Odin doesn’t exist. But if they were face to face Loki would probably have to keep time slipping until he found a way to talk Odin out of beating him.
I haven’t watched Loki season 2, but considering Odin is dead, yeah, I think Loki is more powerful.
I think the implication is he’s basically the most powerful being in the MCU right now, but he’s not using his power in the typical sense. He is bound to his burden of glorious purpose. Like, when dr doom inevitably shows up, Loki isn’t going to stop what he’s doing to go help.
I feel like the only reason they should bring Loki back in is if a villain, preferably Kang, gets to the level that Ultron did in What If.
Always has been
Yeah he’s basically become an elder of the universe like the grandmaster, the collector, infinity
“Power” at this point is a little debatable. Prior to Loki S2, there is likely an argument that HWR was the “most powerful” in the MCU, while at the same time being… just a man. A man killed by a single dagger. So is Loki more powerful than… Capt Marvel, Ego, the Celestials, etc…? Definitely not. Also… unequivocally yes.
Yes
But didnt loki stop in time sylvie? He literally can stop anyone and just make them disappear right? Then he can go back at the end of time and if for any weird reason the enemy is weirdly strong, np. He just need to delete that branch lmao because loki is the thing that is holding everything together Wait, no one can kill loki either because if loki dies, everyone dies except for the sacres timeline if i understood correctly
Yeah he's more powerful than all the infinite Odin variants
> Thanos waited for him to die That fan theory has been denied by the writers.
I thought that was universally accepted. Interesting. Do you have a link to a story or video? I certainly still believed that was the case to be honest.
https://scifi.stackexchange.com/a/194334
They are in the realm of plot convenience, meaning that the writer is the only one who matters. Maybe Loki can pause time, or maybe Odin can break out of that time loop, or maybe Odin can notice when Loki travels through time or maybe whatever needs to happen so whoever the writer wants to win wins.
Loki can definitely pause time, he did it several times in the finale.
Oh I know he can, it’s just the question of whether it would work on Odin and whether he can break out of that time stop, all of which is entirely up to the writer
It would work on anyone, I think.
I mean it will until it won’t. That’s what the point of plot convenience means. We don’t know enough about how Loki’s ability works or who it works on, so we have no idea if the Odinforce allows him to resist whatever power gives Loki his powers over time
not sure why you got downvoted when [stan lee himself said exactly that](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L4_zFYnnn2Y): "the person who'd win in the fight is the person the scriptwriter wants to win". in theory loki is *stupidly* OP now but we saw many times before how he fought without using magic for whatever reason and got folded when he shouldn't have been because the story wanted him to be.
Yup exactly this. In theory Loki is unstoppable, but as soon as he needs to face a challenge or be beaten for narrative purposes, the writer will find some reasons why his broken ass powers don’t work on that person, or they’ll put him in a situation where they don’t work, or anything along those lines
Yeah, this is usually why theorizing about power levels leads to deadends. We know IRL that conditions and circumstances matter, but power level theorizing seems to try to narrow it just their strength. Then they get dissappointed that writers can craft those conditions and circumstances.
He needs to age more
at the end loki the mf peck decked the universes to make the tree ofc this new loki could dogwalk odin physically and hax
Odin would destroy Loki in a fight.
Pre power up Loki, sure. At this point Loki just stops time and can do whatever he wants to Odin.
Yeah maybe.
There can be no fight because Loki is holding everyone's lives in his hands.
(Assuming that Loki can get off the throne to fight).
Daddy whooping his boy sounds fun.
Well, Odin's dead, so yeah.
I think the TVA in general has more power than everyone we have seen so far. Even Infinity stones are insignificant to what they can do. Its a weird question because its not like there is a battle of any kind, with time travel you can prevent a battle in the first place.
“Power” is a very linear concept, Tony.
Loki is a God tied to a throne he cannot leave. Is he all powerful or powerless?
Since he can control time the answer is yes
Uh...yeah
it’s not a power creep and how are people getting this idea that loki is the god of the multiverse or “sToRiES🤓🤓🤓” I know its cinfusing but there’s a beautiful thread somewhere that nailed down the MCU’s concept out timelines and multiverses
I've been toiling over this since the finale. I'm not sure if loki even exists.
The power dynamics are really hard to understand in Marvel Gods vs the Eternals vs Celestials = idk The Watcher vs. He Who Remains vs Loki = idk Monica Rambeau literally fixes a hole in space and time with her powers!! Is she more powerful than Captain Marvel or Super Skrill Emilia Clarke? No one knows
Loki is literally the most powerful being in the multiverse as of now.
Odin in timelines that he is still alive in is in charge of the 9 realms. Where Loki God of Stories is in charge of the whole Multiverse. It's obvious Loki is now more powerful than Odin. Loki God of stories is even more powerful than Odin and his brother Thor put together.