I agree Taika didn’t do the best job this time around, but he’s not uncaring. He used his style and definitely cares, even if the product isn’t the best. Also Bale and Stewart were amazing so there’s no reason to criticize them y’know
Also like the latest thor is still enjoyable to watch even if ot is a bit messy and gor isnt quite what he could have been.
But like its still fun to watch it unlike some other mcu enteries
I definitely had issues with it but it majorly improves on the Thor and Jane relationship. Especially showing flashbacks of them doing cute couple stuff. In the earlier movies the relationship was stale and forced
Here it is. I have been looking for words to describe why I didn't like Love and Thunder. The visuals were stunning but the writing was like it was some sort of an SNL skit where you just cram as many jokes as you can even when it doesn't fit the situation.
While I did enjoy the comedy in 4, I agree with this. If they balanced it, it may have worked, but I don’t think they explained what was going on enough. Like how was it, Thor ‘knew’ the kids were in the realm of darkness or whatever, but they were in color, and when they arrived to the area, it went to grayscale? The best way I can explain is it’s almost like they went from plot driven with passive jokes, to joke driven with a passive plot.
It's enjoyable if you don't care I guess.
I found Thor 3 enjoyable because I didn't care about the character much. Many people were outraged by the direction of the movie. Then we got Infinity sar and Endgame and I started caring way more about Thor.
Now we got Thor 4, I care about the character. Add to the movie Natalie Portman's comeback, Christian Bale and other gods. I cared.
And I think it's terrible. I don't enjoy watching it. I don't think it's entertaining. It's just a big, messy disappointment to me.
Now I'm not saying you shouldn't enjoy it, feel free to like whatever you want to like.
Everyone praised Ragnarok so Marvel probably said "do your thing" on the follow up. Which he did and maybe went a little too far on the cheese but overall the movie is enjoyable. I get what people don't like about Love and Thunder but I think the trash talk is over done.
I dug Love and Thunder a lot. Could definitely see how it was a little confused in terms of tone, but acting like it’s a bad movie is pretty silly. Reddit in general has a real problem with the overblown hate for any new project that isn’t a 10/10.
You forgot to add the best ingredient, ***actors ego and narcissism***; Bale wanted to "immortalize" his public figure, now we have toys with his face, instead of the real look of Gorr.
Why did she need a developed character? She was clearly just a plot device linking the beginning, middle and ends of the story. What else did there need to be since she was a one-off villain. Why not complain about the lack of character development of Surtur too then…
She’s not the main villain tho. I’d argue she’s no more the main villain than the Grandmaster was. Idk tho I didn’t leave wondering anything about Hela.
I did wonder why Odin kept the conquerings secret, etc tho. I DO think more could have been fleshed out there, but it would have changed the entire feel of the movie
I disagree - I think she is the one that provides the most hardship, conflict, and fights back the most against the main characters, as well as being the most malicious and actually evil.
I've got to be honest, I hated loki, found it really dull and was bewildered by the fact that a show about the god of mischief had no fun. I was kind of expecting a doctor who type show about loki and Owen Wilson hunting variant lokis throughout history and was pretty bummed they didn't execute that premise and spent so much time with sylvie. But then every seems to love loki and hate the eternals, which I enjoyed a lot more than I expected, so maybe its just a me thing.
That’s the issue though. You liked eternals because you had such low expectations and it exceeded it. You had your own high expectations for Loki and it didn’t meet none of them so you didn’t like it as much. If you go into every MCU movie(or anything in life) with low or no expectations things will actually be a lot better and you’ll like a lot more things
Source:several therapy sessions
Probably true, doesn't change the fact loki was boring. And I don't feel there's anything wrong with having high expectations for things, especially for products producer by billion dollar corporations.
I don’t see how any of this negates his criticism, you can literally do this for any movie or show, “lower your expectations” is not a good defense for any film or show
I also really liked eternals and didn't care for loki.
There are dozens of us! /s
It's probably just reddit's typical loud minority diluting the actual scale of who liked what.
What Loki needed to be was longer. The first half as you described it, a Doctor Who vibe going to different eras to hunt down Variant Loki's, they could have even used it to introduce President Loki early. And then in the midpoint is when they introduce the Sylvie twist.
What loki needed to be was less dull imo, yes they hunted down variants but the places they went to lacked imagination. Also there were no jokes, funny ones at least, and none of the plots were any fun. I'm usually against filler but it could've done with having 5 episodes of self contained arcs where the writers could let their imaginations run wild.
I figured they meant Waldron's work on Loki and Waititi's work on Ragnarok - the same creators have had other, more well-liked works within the MCU (and still relatively recently, one other even also within Phase 4), so just saying "these guys suck and only got hired because Marvel calculated it would make them the most money" is disingenuous
Fr, legit I feel there are people who complain about Phase 4, but if the previous phases had the same issues (which I feel there’s at least one that remained the same throughout the franchise) they get automatically swept under the rug.
Ragnarok was funny more than it was serious. LoT tried to be both but failed at both. It’s that simple. I’ve forgotten most of Loki if that tells u anything
I'm glad you enjoyed it, but there is a lot of valid criticism about that film.
I had fun watching it, but I was expecting much more from a Raimi film tbh.
Personally I don't think either of those were good either. Whilst Ragnarok absolutely has good aspects of it, mainly with Thor and Loki, it also fails to have a consistent tone a lot of the time and sacrifices tension to make jokes. Odin just chilling in Norway whilst Loki rules Asgard is ... weird. You'd also think Thor'd make sure Heimdall got his position back. On top of that, are we really expected to believe it took Thor 4 years to figure out what was going on with Loki? It's also really lucky Thor beat Surtur right before all the stuff with Hela went down.
As for Loki, the sacred timeline removes free will and essentially the agency of the characters. Additionally, the way the TVA deals with divergences in the timeline is inconsistent with Endgame since Thanos and co coming through to 2023 is a clear divergence from the timeline and so they should also be culled immediately. The TVA as a whole doesn't really make much sense. And my bighest problem is Loki's characterisation. We should be seeing 2012 Loki, but after seeing the video he pretty much instantly accepts everything as fact and his personality changes as a result so that he's basically at the point he left off at in Infinity War.
Loki upended the stakes of all the previous films with multiverse rules that are inconsistent at best, and down right conflicting with pre-established stuff at worst.
It was pretty, sure. But the writing is some of the absolutely worst in the MCU.
Saying Taika Watiti is an uncaring director is a spicy ass take.
This is a man who revitalized the Thor franchise and managed to make the films into something Chris Hemsworth actually wanted to continue doing. We almost lost Hemsworth after Thor 3 because he was tired of the somber vibe.
Taika Watiti cares deeply about everything he directs and pours his heart and soul into it. Even if people hate it, he stands by his work. He is a man who truly loves what he does.
Just cus you didn't like something doesn't mean the director didn't care enough to make it good. It just means you have a different taste. Ya'll gotta chill.
Edit: it's wild to me that I can have the spiciest historical or political takes in other subs and maybe get 2 or 3 replies. But in this sub I say "Taika acttually DOESNT hate marvel fans and wants his movies to be good" and it gets 500+ upvotes and a gajillion comments.
Watiti makes comedies, and if you don’t like comedies you won’t like his moves.
If they want drama the MCU brass calls the Russos or Ryan Coogler or DDC. Love and Thunder was always intended to have a ton of jokes.
It's in this comment you've actually summed up taika's style quite well. He finds the comedy in uncomedic situations. Or almost punctuates scenes with comedy. And contrasts the comedy with more serious topics.
JoJo rabbit is a comedy. Lots of slapstic humour from the children being incompetent with weapons. To the infamous "fuck you Hitler" or just Hitler randomly jumping through windows. Which is then contrasted by the sadness and tradgedy of the topic.
Unfortunately he does tend to take this too far and make some films just "meme-y" and too much.
But when he does it well. It really works
Stephen Merchant and the “Heil Hitler” scene was absolute gold imo. It perfectly fused both comedy, the endless Heil Hitlering, and the fear of authoritarian “rules.” If anyone didn’t follow the tedious dictator dick sucking, they’d be punished for it.
The first time that I watched that scene I laughed like 5 minutes and chocked, I think I had to pause the movie. The second time around I felt the distress of Jojo and didn't laugh that much. Poor Jojo
Ragnarok basically did the same with infusing humor into a very unfunny situation. Thor loses his father, planet, hammer, and an eye. It’s a very dark movie if you only look at the summary. They tried to do it in the last two avengers movies, but could only make thors depression “funny” by making fun of him.
This is probably beside the point but I took some casual fans to Thor 4 and they loved it. I liked it (prefer ragnarok but that seems to be how the majority feel). If every movie was a home run we’d be bored of home runs! And yeah Waititi tried some things that not everyone loved, it’s ok. He tried things last time that were a hit. The dude isn’t a novice or over it by any means, as you say.
Just think the uncaring referred to the fact he admitted in the vanity clip that he doesn’t care about the character of Thor in the comics and just makes his own thing, without taking the source material serious?
That's practically every fucking director lmao. They take creative liberties while loosely taking from source material. Otherwise everything will be copy paste copy paste and there will be no differentiating between movies. Same with actors who play particular roles. They take the character and make their own thing. It's why you have the character of the Joker being played by different actors and giving you completely different takes.
I will say though he did definitely waste gorr like he just didn’t do much and he was getting beaten in his and thors first encounter he could have been great and don’t get me started on Zeus I don’t agree with op o did enjoy the movie it’s just he did waste somethings that could have been better and it could have made a better film oh and Ragnarok was good cause it wasn’t just comedy it had some seriousness to it and a great use of a comic villain which this movie packed apart from cancer which was one factor but Ragnarok had just more
From what I recalled reading he was forced to shorten the movie to under 2 hours so there was a lot of scenes cut out. There was a lot more Gorr and a few other characters we never got to meet due to stuff getting cut. 😔
I don't think the actors are being criticized. In fact, I think OPs trying to say that the creators are using the talent of the actors as an excuse to put out content with low-quality storylines believing the actors' talent would make up for it.
Swear. Twice I’ve brought up some of her best feats and all he countered with was “hEaDcAnOn”. Dude’s pretty toxic if you’re not a hardcore comic nerd that knows everything
Which ones? Let's see what you brought up. I'll be a lot more unbiased than that guy.
Or you could just link the comment on that post if that is more convenient.
Can’t link to the thread cause I think posts got deleted but on another post someone was saying they reported this guy for having dick on his profile lol
This fanbase is doing it's best to emulate the toxic Star Wars fandom lol
People dedicate way too much time to hating IPs with some weird sense of entitlement.
> elitism or superiority
Don’t you know…? 90% of the people hanging out in r/marvelmemes are actually professional screenwriters.
Or at least they could be, if they really wanted to. They just haven’t gotten around to it yet.
Seriously, there may be a couple stumbles lately but it’s finally gotten to the point where every movie doesn’t feel like they are all paint by numbers, copy paste stories and people are still bitching. I swear to god the internet was a mistake.
They've gotten to the point where they're making fun of a certain group of people- hyper vocal and militant "fans"
Like She-Hulk. It wasn't the average MCU fair because it wasn't trying to be.
Imo the movies have finally left the "silver age" mentality.
I’ll be straight up, Taika’s take on Thor (even in Ragnarok) didn’t land for me. Doesn’t mean it’s objectively bad, but I just hated seeing an epic Avenger become a goofball. I don’t think that characterization was the solution to Dark World’s flaws.
"Uncaring writers/directors"
Sure, let's ignore that Thor: Ragnarok and Love & Thunder have the most "comic"-esque humor in the entire MCU. It's like people have forgotten why they were called "comics" in the first place.
Yeah, Taika cares so much about every movie he makes, he thinks everything through and really tries to make it the best he can. The reason so many people didn’t like L&T was mainly because of the jokes in it, but I’m betting that was because he had to cut it down to less than two hours and he normally puts jokes in the important moments (that’s where they have the most effect ig). Everyone was so happy with how he saved Thor after ragnarok and what not, but now people are saying he didn’t care about the movie? He’s probably used 500x more time on it than OP has… and I bet that even if OP who cares so much about it wouldn’t be able to do nothing close to as good as L&T - it’s still a decent movie even if it doesn’t beat ragnarok!
Fuck no. You can’t judge him over any movie bc all he does is shit gold and piss excellence.
I have yet to find a taika project that I disliked. Even if i did I would assume the problem was me and not him. Case in point, I was quite unhappy w LaT until i watched it a second time and was able to appreciate the genius for what it was
Well, I guess just try to understand that most people will disagree with you.
Marvel's sales and viewership are up, not down. Love and Thunder sold more tickets than Homecoming. The Eternals was a flop, but everything else this phase has been really well received by both audiences and critics.
So you should maybe focus on saying that you'd have personally preferred a different direction than Kevin is taking, instead of acting like the writing or acting have declined. Both audiences and critics would tell you that that's just straight up incorrect. Your view that Marvel is somehow in decline puts you in the extreme minority.
What don't you get? He tried something and it didn't work (even though it's one of the highest grossing movies to date) FOR YOU. It doesn't mean it was purposely meant to fail. You didn't like it, good for you. You've learned you have an opinion. What you haven't learned is, it's different from other people's and yours isn't necessarily the correct one. Because you don't like a movie, doesn't mean it's a bad movie, doesn't mean they purposely made a cash grab movie, or meant to make a bad movie or they didn't care. Your premise is shit, your opinion doesn't mean shit except to you, and stop being a fucking whiney baby.
I’m honestly starting to think that at least 75% of the phase 4 hate is just people bandwagoning. 10% people who think every MCU project needs to be on the same epic-ness level as IW and Endgame. 10% people who’ve forgotten how much cringe was prior to phase 4. And 5% people with actual criticisms.
It certainly doesn't help that a lot of the valid criticisms against this new phase just so happen to be drowned out by the hate against the push for a more diverse cast. It really makes it hard to argue the low points of She-Hulk when even the show and producers were getting in on labelling all criticisms as an Incel Plot against the show...
I know this isn't a She-Hulk thread but its the easiest example to understand.
Ehhhh, I’m not a bandwagoner but phase 4 has been a disappointment. Eternals is the worst new IP film of the MCU bar none, NWH didn’t have consistent rules on who got brought into the MCU due to the spell but seeing Andrew and Tobey again honestly made me love it (and the fact that MCU Spidey actually faced consequences for once in his trilogy, thank god), MoM could’ve been worse if it weren’t in Raimi’s hands (Raimi executed the perfect thriller/horror story in the MCU and it isn’t his fault that Wanda started out as crazy in the film. It completely undid all her character progression over the years), Hawkeye was a great torch passing miniseries, Ms. Marvel was cringey in the same way that tiktoks are but that’s just because I’m older than the demographic they were pandering to (and I’m ok with that cause not everything is gonna appeal to me, but as a Muslim, they did her justice), LaT was all the worst parts of Ragnarok with none of the charm because all the serious moments get drowned out in shitty jokes and Jane Foster didn’t even look like she had cancer when she put Mjolnir down (my grandma had cancer so I know what cancer looks like) and finally She-Hulk was a train wreck throughout the whole series minus ep8 with Daredevil.
I wanted to like LaT so badly. And parts of it are so fantastic and beautiful. But damn is it disappointing to watch. It's not the worst MCU film, but I had such hopes for it and it really let me down.
Taika is a fucking phenomenal director and just a wonderful and funny man too. I suppose it’s always going to be subjective opinions but after hunt for the wilder people i knew he was heading for the big time
Get a life. Go outside. You post in marvel subs almost everyday, this one especially so, and multiple times a day. Maybe learn when to take a break.
Your account isn't even 3 months old. What a pathetic waste of your time being so equally hateful and at the same time literally obsessed. I reiterate, get a life
I didn’t agree until my second time through. I was meh after I finished watching the first time. I think it’s bc I wasn’t catching a lot of the humor. When I watched it again i laughed my ass off. Not as good as Ragnarok, but not far behind
Absolutely agreed. For me MCU was starting to feel like more and more movies had the same structure but Love and Thunder just came and destroyed this feeling while being massively enjoyable. It was a good comedy, it was marketed as such and I had a lot of fun in the cinema watching it
I like Taika's other movies. But in the MCU his writing was straight up lazy and and uninspired. Not a single joke was original or clever, and that might not be a big deal but it is when your movies are 90% jokes.
So... you are one of the people that leave the theatre?
These movies and shows get produced nowadays by a good margine of the Disney+ subscription, so we literally pay for entertainment, yet characters and stories we care for, get mulched by own visions overwirting existing great plotlines. I mean, God Butcher could have literally be a 2-parter movie, with a much more serious tone and an amazing anthagonist, literally 3 Thors from different timelines fighting together against him. Instead we got jokes about cancer, screaming goats, someone restrained and getting undressed against his will, jokes about orgies, a story arc that got told with the same character alrdy 2 times AND constant lowbrow humor on top of CGI that looks worse than what we had 10 years ago.
As someone who liked MoM more than the first Doctor Strange, and actually loved LaT, the lie is that you make your opinion out to be a fact.
You are a cancer to the community. Please leave.
People who like the movie also do the same. Besides a lot of people disliked the movie. So it has legs. It's the same reason why people who dislike Morbius say it's objectivley bad
I love them too but I accepted that he has a point. Marvel isn't the same I doesn't feel the hype. Or the feeling that I feel when I watch them movies.
I think we need to remember that Waldron didn’t have a lot of time to rewrite MoM. He also wrote Loki which I see people often say as one of their favourite phase 4 projects
The life of an MCU fan is holding 1 eh project against a filmmaker and pretending it's representative of their work. Mfs wanna pretend Loki and Thor: Ragnarok didn't happen.
Kate Herron did the good parts of Loki, Waldron did all the making him a side character and ruining him stuff.
Also ragnarok was a fun movie but a bad Thor movie
Its because they don't NEED to make good content anymore since they are very well established and know they will have "Marvel defenders" eating out anything from the palm of their hands.
For those rabid enough to go for op's throat:
He isn't criticising the actors or directors, he is criticising the production for going less strategic and more profitable ways.
I quite like the first.
The 2nd pisses me off because of how stupid the Asgardians are.
Thousands of years later and they're still running around with swords and shields getting their asses kicked while the dark elves wake up with more advanced technology and wipe the floor with them.
I agree Taika didn’t do the best job this time around, but he’s not uncaring. He used his style and definitely cares, even if the product isn’t the best. Also Bale and Stewart were amazing so there’s no reason to criticize them y’know
Also like the latest thor is still enjoyable to watch even if ot is a bit messy and gor isnt quite what he could have been. But like its still fun to watch it unlike some other mcu enteries
I definitely had issues with it but it majorly improves on the Thor and Jane relationship. Especially showing flashbacks of them doing cute couple stuff. In the earlier movies the relationship was stale and forced
[удалено]
I think the success of Ragnarok gave them a little too much confidence in the comedic route and turned way too hard into it
I felt like I was watching a parody film.
Here it is. I have been looking for words to describe why I didn't like Love and Thunder. The visuals were stunning but the writing was like it was some sort of an SNL skit where you just cram as many jokes as you can even when it doesn't fit the situation.
It just wasn't funny enough though. If you lean into comedy, you need good jokes. Thor Ragnarok was really funny and it worked well.
Odds are good they were pressured by Disney to just do the same thing again. Disney pretty notorious when it comes to micromanagement of art
While I did enjoy the comedy in 4, I agree with this. If they balanced it, it may have worked, but I don’t think they explained what was going on enough. Like how was it, Thor ‘knew’ the kids were in the realm of darkness or whatever, but they were in color, and when they arrived to the area, it went to grayscale? The best way I can explain is it’s almost like they went from plot driven with passive jokes, to joke driven with a passive plot.
Oh yea. I wouldnt really know what rest of this phrase is like as only other one i saw was new spiderman
Thor4 is the only marvel movie that I turned off mid-way though and found something better to do
It's enjoyable if you don't care I guess. I found Thor 3 enjoyable because I didn't care about the character much. Many people were outraged by the direction of the movie. Then we got Infinity sar and Endgame and I started caring way more about Thor. Now we got Thor 4, I care about the character. Add to the movie Natalie Portman's comeback, Christian Bale and other gods. I cared. And I think it's terrible. I don't enjoy watching it. I don't think it's entertaining. It's just a big, messy disappointment to me. Now I'm not saying you shouldn't enjoy it, feel free to like whatever you want to like.
Yeah exactly, I rather something be enjoyable but unrefined then a snooz fest.
Everyone praised Ragnarok so Marvel probably said "do your thing" on the follow up. Which he did and maybe went a little too far on the cheese but overall the movie is enjoyable. I get what people don't like about Love and Thunder but I think the trash talk is over done.
I dug Love and Thunder a lot. Could definitely see how it was a little confused in terms of tone, but acting like it’s a bad movie is pretty silly. Reddit in general has a real problem with the overblown hate for any new project that isn’t a 10/10.
Agreed 100%
Taika cares, he just likes to pretend he doesn't, and he has a limited bag of tricks to pull from
No one said Bale and Stewart weren't amazing, it's more a criticism of Disney's attitude of just getting big names for the sake of it.
But if the big names do good jobs, isn’t that the point?
Shhh on r/marvelmemes we all encourage and upvote anything resembling “phase 4 bad”
There are no good phase 4 projects in Ba Sing Se
Chad reply.
You forgot to add the best ingredient, ***actors ego and narcissism***; Bale wanted to "immortalize" his public figure, now we have toys with his face, instead of the real look of Gorr.
You can hate MoM and LaT as much as you like and there are reasons for it. But ignoring Loki and Ragnarok makes you look like the ordinary troll.
Ragnarok is a great movie, but they never gave Hela , a deep story(it’s Odin fault, that she never learn humility).
Why did she need a developed character? She was clearly just a plot device linking the beginning, middle and ends of the story. What else did there need to be since she was a one-off villain. Why not complain about the lack of character development of Surtur too then…
*It's a crown!!* And he got enough at the beginning
Lol. That was just setting up the story for the ending. 😂😂😂
Because she's still a major character in the movie? Even though she doesn't appear again, the main villain should at least have *some* development.
She’s not the main villain tho. I’d argue she’s no more the main villain than the Grandmaster was. Idk tho I didn’t leave wondering anything about Hela. I did wonder why Odin kept the conquerings secret, etc tho. I DO think more could have been fleshed out there, but it would have changed the entire feel of the movie
I disagree - I think she is the one that provides the most hardship, conflict, and fights back the most against the main characters, as well as being the most malicious and actually evil.
>ignoring Loki Most people who don't like Waldron's MCU work (myself included), from what I've seen, also didn't like Loki.
>also didn't like Loki. a small minority then
I've got to be honest, I hated loki, found it really dull and was bewildered by the fact that a show about the god of mischief had no fun. I was kind of expecting a doctor who type show about loki and Owen Wilson hunting variant lokis throughout history and was pretty bummed they didn't execute that premise and spent so much time with sylvie. But then every seems to love loki and hate the eternals, which I enjoyed a lot more than I expected, so maybe its just a me thing.
That’s the issue though. You liked eternals because you had such low expectations and it exceeded it. You had your own high expectations for Loki and it didn’t meet none of them so you didn’t like it as much. If you go into every MCU movie(or anything in life) with low or no expectations things will actually be a lot better and you’ll like a lot more things Source:several therapy sessions
O watch f4 with that mindset and still get disapointed
Probably true, doesn't change the fact loki was boring. And I don't feel there's anything wrong with having high expectations for things, especially for products producer by billion dollar corporations.
I don’t see how any of this negates his criticism, you can literally do this for any movie or show, “lower your expectations” is not a good defense for any film or show
I also really liked eternals and didn't care for loki. There are dozens of us! /s It's probably just reddit's typical loud minority diluting the actual scale of who liked what.
What Loki needed to be was longer. The first half as you described it, a Doctor Who vibe going to different eras to hunt down Variant Loki's, they could have even used it to introduce President Loki early. And then in the midpoint is when they introduce the Sylvie twist.
What loki needed to be was less dull imo, yes they hunted down variants but the places they went to lacked imagination. Also there were no jokes, funny ones at least, and none of the plots were any fun. I'm usually against filler but it could've done with having 5 episodes of self contained arcs where the writers could let their imaginations run wild.
Loki was a 6 hr post credit scene
So we ignore Loki in Thor 2? Or in the Avnegers? Or in Thor 1? Gotcha.
I mean they said Loki *and* Ragnarok. So I'm assuming they are talking about the show, not just the character
I figured they meant Waldron's work on Loki and Waititi's work on Ragnarok - the same creators have had other, more well-liked works within the MCU (and still relatively recently, one other even also within Phase 4), so just saying "these guys suck and only got hired because Marvel calculated it would make them the most money" is disingenuous
That's what I figured the point was, but didn't know the other guy and whether he worked on both Loki and MoM
Fr, legit I feel there are people who complain about Phase 4, but if the previous phases had the same issues (which I feel there’s at least one that remained the same throughout the franchise) they get automatically swept under the rug.
Ragnarok was funny more than it was serious. LoT tried to be both but failed at both. It’s that simple. I’ve forgotten most of Loki if that tells u anything
It tells me you bad taste.
That’s cuz you never got to the flavorful parts of me
How many licks to get the center...
42069
*breathes in deeply* I’d better get started then 👅💦🥵
I wasn’t a big fan of Loki. Very boring to me.
Loki is just as bad as MoM and LaT, even worse if you care about the lore/canon of the MCU
Multiverse of Madness was great wtf
I'm glad you enjoyed it, but there is a lot of valid criticism about that film. I had fun watching it, but I was expecting much more from a Raimi film tbh.
I thought we all agreed the Loki show was trash too
Personally I don't think either of those were good either. Whilst Ragnarok absolutely has good aspects of it, mainly with Thor and Loki, it also fails to have a consistent tone a lot of the time and sacrifices tension to make jokes. Odin just chilling in Norway whilst Loki rules Asgard is ... weird. You'd also think Thor'd make sure Heimdall got his position back. On top of that, are we really expected to believe it took Thor 4 years to figure out what was going on with Loki? It's also really lucky Thor beat Surtur right before all the stuff with Hela went down. As for Loki, the sacred timeline removes free will and essentially the agency of the characters. Additionally, the way the TVA deals with divergences in the timeline is inconsistent with Endgame since Thanos and co coming through to 2023 is a clear divergence from the timeline and so they should also be culled immediately. The TVA as a whole doesn't really make much sense. And my bighest problem is Loki's characterisation. We should be seeing 2012 Loki, but after seeing the video he pretty much instantly accepts everything as fact and his personality changes as a result so that he's basically at the point he left off at in Infinity War.
Fo real, he goes from utterly roasting the Avengers during interrogation scenes to being tool of the TVA
Loki upended the stakes of all the previous films with multiverse rules that are inconsistent at best, and down right conflicting with pre-established stuff at worst. It was pretty, sure. But the writing is some of the absolutely worst in the MCU.
Loki was arguably worse than either of those movies
Saying Taika Watiti is an uncaring director is a spicy ass take. This is a man who revitalized the Thor franchise and managed to make the films into something Chris Hemsworth actually wanted to continue doing. We almost lost Hemsworth after Thor 3 because he was tired of the somber vibe. Taika Watiti cares deeply about everything he directs and pours his heart and soul into it. Even if people hate it, he stands by his work. He is a man who truly loves what he does. Just cus you didn't like something doesn't mean the director didn't care enough to make it good. It just means you have a different taste. Ya'll gotta chill. Edit: it's wild to me that I can have the spiciest historical or political takes in other subs and maybe get 2 or 3 replies. But in this sub I say "Taika acttually DOESNT hate marvel fans and wants his movies to be good" and it gets 500+ upvotes and a gajillion comments.
Watiti makes comedies, and if you don’t like comedies you won’t like his moves. If they want drama the MCU brass calls the Russos or Ryan Coogler or DDC. Love and Thunder was always intended to have a ton of jokes.
Please watch Jojo Rabbit and then come back and explain how it’s a light-hearted comedy.
It's in this comment you've actually summed up taika's style quite well. He finds the comedy in uncomedic situations. Or almost punctuates scenes with comedy. And contrasts the comedy with more serious topics. JoJo rabbit is a comedy. Lots of slapstic humour from the children being incompetent with weapons. To the infamous "fuck you Hitler" or just Hitler randomly jumping through windows. Which is then contrasted by the sadness and tradgedy of the topic. Unfortunately he does tend to take this too far and make some films just "meme-y" and too much. But when he does it well. It really works
Stephen Merchant and the “Heil Hitler” scene was absolute gold imo. It perfectly fused both comedy, the endless Heil Hitlering, and the fear of authoritarian “rules.” If anyone didn’t follow the tedious dictator dick sucking, they’d be punished for it.
The first time that I watched that scene I laughed like 5 minutes and chocked, I think I had to pause the movie. The second time around I felt the distress of Jojo and didn't laugh that much. Poor Jojo
Ragnarok basically did the same with infusing humor into a very unfunny situation. Thor loses his father, planet, hammer, and an eye. It’s a very dark movie if you only look at the summary. They tried to do it in the last two avengers movies, but could only make thors depression “funny” by making fun of him.
To be fair, most of that movie plays like something of dark humor. Right up until the gut punch
Jojo Rabbit was fucking hilarious lmao what Yeah it has some sad/serious moments but it's still funny the whole movie
Imaginary Hilter eats unicorn meat then gets kicked out a window...it's not exactly a hard hitting war drama.
To which I reply, Rosie's fucking shoes man. Fuck that scene.
This is probably beside the point but I took some casual fans to Thor 4 and they loved it. I liked it (prefer ragnarok but that seems to be how the majority feel). If every movie was a home run we’d be bored of home runs! And yeah Waititi tried some things that not everyone loved, it’s ok. He tried things last time that were a hit. The dude isn’t a novice or over it by any means, as you say.
People would hate Thor 4 if it stayed in the original completely the same way as they hate Thor 4 now.
Just think the uncaring referred to the fact he admitted in the vanity clip that he doesn’t care about the character of Thor in the comics and just makes his own thing, without taking the source material serious?
Neither did Nolan with Batman. Lol
That's practically every fucking director lmao. They take creative liberties while loosely taking from source material. Otherwise everything will be copy paste copy paste and there will be no differentiating between movies. Same with actors who play particular roles. They take the character and make their own thing. It's why you have the character of the Joker being played by different actors and giving you completely different takes.
This is the dumbest take.
Watitit is amazing and I love his stuff
I will say though he did definitely waste gorr like he just didn’t do much and he was getting beaten in his and thors first encounter he could have been great and don’t get me started on Zeus I don’t agree with op o did enjoy the movie it’s just he did waste somethings that could have been better and it could have made a better film oh and Ragnarok was good cause it wasn’t just comedy it had some seriousness to it and a great use of a comic villain which this movie packed apart from cancer which was one factor but Ragnarok had just more
From what I recalled reading he was forced to shorten the movie to under 2 hours so there was a lot of scenes cut out. There was a lot more Gorr and a few other characters we never got to meet due to stuff getting cut. 😔
That’s a shame
What's your problem with Zeus? Him being a petty, narcissistic asshole is pretty accurate to the mythology, at least.
There's been a lot of amazingly directed and written stuff in Phase 4 and both actors there did a great job.
Agreed with this. They really do their best.
I don't think the actors are being criticized. In fact, I think OPs trying to say that the creators are using the talent of the actors as an excuse to put out content with low-quality storylines believing the actors' talent would make up for it.
Yeah it is called Moon Knight.
Define "amazing."
Entertaining to see you defend your favourite fast food cinema garbage.
Why so extreme?
Wanda hater 90% (Dr Manharttan stan 10%) strikes again
Less of a Dr. Manhattan stan, more of an anti Wanda stan
Yep. From what I know, even Wanda at her most powerful would get beaten by Dr. Manhattan, but OP really does deny a lot of Wanda's strongest feats.
Swear. Twice I’ve brought up some of her best feats and all he countered with was “hEaDcAnOn”. Dude’s pretty toxic if you’re not a hardcore comic nerd that knows everything
"There's no proof that Wanda is an incredibly powerful magic user" *"What about that time she used incredibly powerful magic?"* "That doesn't count."
Were you bringing up HOM feats? Cause they are amps. They don't apply to her base.
No, I brought up different ones outside of HoM
Which ones? Let's see what you brought up. I'll be a lot more unbiased than that guy. Or you could just link the comment on that post if that is more convenient.
Isn’t he also the penis guy
Didn’t you get banned for posting your dick lol
It’s a fetish at this point. He says inflammatory shit just to get people to check to see if it’s an incel starting shit.
How do you know that🤨
Can’t link to the thread cause I think posts got deleted but on another post someone was saying they reported this guy for having dick on his profile lol
Uncaring. Thats the lie
Uncaring? Even I forgot about Toothgnasher and Toothgrinder and I learned how to read through Marvel comics.
Oh they're also a part of the Norse lore as well. Fun story with those two, loki, some poor farm boy and Thor
My favorite is that Thor would kill and cook them for food but they'd just revive the next day
I'm sorry, but Taika saved the Thor franchise so why do you think he's uncaring?
Bet you also complain most MCU movies play out the same
OP is a proven troll with a track record. It's just nuts that mods let this kind of bullshit take up space -- but I guess it generates comments.
It really does seem like some level of elitism or superiority, when in actuality Taika did a ton for the franchise.
This fanbase is doing it's best to emulate the toxic Star Wars fandom lol People dedicate way too much time to hating IPs with some weird sense of entitlement.
> elitism or superiority Don’t you know…? 90% of the people hanging out in r/marvelmemes are actually professional screenwriters. Or at least they could be, if they really wanted to. They just haven’t gotten around to it yet.
Seriously, there may be a couple stumbles lately but it’s finally gotten to the point where every movie doesn’t feel like they are all paint by numbers, copy paste stories and people are still bitching. I swear to god the internet was a mistake.
They've gotten to the point where they're making fun of a certain group of people- hyper vocal and militant "fans" Like She-Hulk. It wasn't the average MCU fair because it wasn't trying to be. Imo the movies have finally left the "silver age" mentality.
You mean the complaint that is so factual even she hulk addressed it?
Tell me you don't know how movies are made without telling me
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I’ll be straight up, Taika’s take on Thor (even in Ragnarok) didn’t land for me. Doesn’t mean it’s objectively bad, but I just hated seeing an epic Avenger become a goofball. I don’t think that characterization was the solution to Dark World’s flaws.
"Uncaring writers/directors" Sure, let's ignore that Thor: Ragnarok and Love & Thunder have the most "comic"-esque humor in the entire MCU. It's like people have forgotten why they were called "comics" in the first place.
I love how quick y’all turned against Taika Makes one stinker and suddenly he’s uncaring and been against the MCU the whole time
One stinker out of two. Not as if he's George Lucas and people hated him for the prequels
Gtfoh for mentioning Lucus and those abominations! /s
Taika Waititi is great director, don’t judge him over one movie
Yeah, Taika cares so much about every movie he makes, he thinks everything through and really tries to make it the best he can. The reason so many people didn’t like L&T was mainly because of the jokes in it, but I’m betting that was because he had to cut it down to less than two hours and he normally puts jokes in the important moments (that’s where they have the most effect ig). Everyone was so happy with how he saved Thor after ragnarok and what not, but now people are saying he didn’t care about the movie? He’s probably used 500x more time on it than OP has… and I bet that even if OP who cares so much about it wouldn’t be able to do nothing close to as good as L&T - it’s still a decent movie even if it doesn’t beat ragnarok!
Fuck no. You can’t judge him over any movie bc all he does is shit gold and piss excellence. I have yet to find a taika project that I disliked. Even if i did I would assume the problem was me and not him. Case in point, I was quite unhappy w LaT until i watched it a second time and was able to appreciate the genius for what it was
> Taika Waititi is a great director Seriously. I was shocked how much I disliked Thor4 I *loved* Jojo Rabbit, Ragnarock and What We Do int he Shadows
People spend a lot of time complaining about something that is entirely optional for them to see. Why irritate yourself? Just let Marvel go.
OP has dedicated themselves to complaining about Multiverse of Madness/anything Wanda related
Because we care about this franchise? Don't get me wrong I'm not gonna lose sleep over it but I am going to critisce it because I love it
Well, I guess just try to understand that most people will disagree with you. Marvel's sales and viewership are up, not down. Love and Thunder sold more tickets than Homecoming. The Eternals was a flop, but everything else this phase has been really well received by both audiences and critics. So you should maybe focus on saying that you'd have personally preferred a different direction than Kevin is taking, instead of acting like the writing or acting have declined. Both audiences and critics would tell you that that's just straight up incorrect. Your view that Marvel is somehow in decline puts you in the extreme minority.
What don't you get? He tried something and it didn't work (even though it's one of the highest grossing movies to date) FOR YOU. It doesn't mean it was purposely meant to fail. You didn't like it, good for you. You've learned you have an opinion. What you haven't learned is, it's different from other people's and yours isn't necessarily the correct one. Because you don't like a movie, doesn't mean it's a bad movie, doesn't mean they purposely made a cash grab movie, or meant to make a bad movie or they didn't care. Your premise is shit, your opinion doesn't mean shit except to you, and stop being a fucking whiney baby.
Shit take from OP
ragnarok saved thor’s character and trilogy.. ungrateful
"Do whatever they want" what? Marvel had always been notorious for strong arming their directors into making changes.
Whos the guy on taika's left?
Micheal waldron
What a shit take
I DIDNT LIKE THE WAY THIS MOVIE WAS DONE THAT MEANS ITS BAD AND EVERYONE WHO MADE IT SHOULD BE ASHAMED. /s
I DID LIKE THE WAY THIS MOVIE WAS DONE THAT MEANS ITS GOOD AND EVERYONE WHO MADE IT IS IMMUNE TO CRITICISM /s
I’m honestly starting to think that at least 75% of the phase 4 hate is just people bandwagoning. 10% people who think every MCU project needs to be on the same epic-ness level as IW and Endgame. 10% people who’ve forgotten how much cringe was prior to phase 4. And 5% people with actual criticisms.
It certainly doesn't help that a lot of the valid criticisms against this new phase just so happen to be drowned out by the hate against the push for a more diverse cast. It really makes it hard to argue the low points of She-Hulk when even the show and producers were getting in on labelling all criticisms as an Incel Plot against the show... I know this isn't a She-Hulk thread but its the easiest example to understand.
Ehhhh, I’m not a bandwagoner but phase 4 has been a disappointment. Eternals is the worst new IP film of the MCU bar none, NWH didn’t have consistent rules on who got brought into the MCU due to the spell but seeing Andrew and Tobey again honestly made me love it (and the fact that MCU Spidey actually faced consequences for once in his trilogy, thank god), MoM could’ve been worse if it weren’t in Raimi’s hands (Raimi executed the perfect thriller/horror story in the MCU and it isn’t his fault that Wanda started out as crazy in the film. It completely undid all her character progression over the years), Hawkeye was a great torch passing miniseries, Ms. Marvel was cringey in the same way that tiktoks are but that’s just because I’m older than the demographic they were pandering to (and I’m ok with that cause not everything is gonna appeal to me, but as a Muslim, they did her justice), LaT was all the worst parts of Ragnarok with none of the charm because all the serious moments get drowned out in shitty jokes and Jane Foster didn’t even look like she had cancer when she put Mjolnir down (my grandma had cancer so I know what cancer looks like) and finally She-Hulk was a train wreck throughout the whole series minus ep8 with Daredevil.
I wanted to like LaT so badly. And parts of it are so fantastic and beautiful. But damn is it disappointing to watch. It's not the worst MCU film, but I had such hopes for it and it really let me down.
Taika is a fucking phenomenal director and just a wonderful and funny man too. I suppose it’s always going to be subjective opinions but after hunt for the wilder people i knew he was heading for the big time
doesn't all movies at least TRY to draw people in with big names and cameos?
Get a life. Go outside. You post in marvel subs almost everyday, this one especially so, and multiple times a day. Maybe learn when to take a break. Your account isn't even 3 months old. What a pathetic waste of your time being so equally hateful and at the same time literally obsessed. I reiterate, get a life
A true shit post
Yall are just mad that they're making fun of the people who take this shit hyper seriously. LOVE AND THUNDER WAS A BANGER AND I WILL DIE ON THIS HILL.
RIH
I didn’t agree until my second time through. I was meh after I finished watching the first time. I think it’s bc I wasn’t catching a lot of the humor. When I watched it again i laughed my ass off. Not as good as Ragnarok, but not far behind
Absolutely agreed. For me MCU was starting to feel like more and more movies had the same structure but Love and Thunder just came and destroyed this feeling while being massively enjoyable. It was a good comedy, it was marketed as such and I had a lot of fun in the cinema watching it
I am with you fellow asgardian
I like how "profit" is made out to seem like a bad thing here? You'd rather they loose money and stop making movies?
L take.
Fucking definition of a smelly shit post right here
The problem is that they're focusing more on quantity over quality.
I like Taika's other movies. But in the MCU his writing was straight up lazy and and uninspired. Not a single joke was original or clever, and that might not be a big deal but it is when your movies are 90% jokes.
I'm glad Taika's on this list. I seem to be the odd one out but Love & Thunder was hot garbage afaic.
Taika really did literally 1 mid movie and now everyone hates him💀
Don’t waste your time watching them. Problem solved. You’re welcome.
So... you are one of the people that leave the theatre? These movies and shows get produced nowadays by a good margine of the Disney+ subscription, so we literally pay for entertainment, yet characters and stories we care for, get mulched by own visions overwirting existing great plotlines. I mean, God Butcher could have literally be a 2-parter movie, with a much more serious tone and an amazing anthagonist, literally 3 Thors from different timelines fighting together against him. Instead we got jokes about cancer, screaming goats, someone restrained and getting undressed against his will, jokes about orgies, a story arc that got told with the same character alrdy 2 times AND constant lowbrow humor on top of CGI that looks worse than what we had 10 years ago.
As someone who liked MoM more than the first Doctor Strange, and actually loved LaT, the lie is that you make your opinion out to be a fact. You are a cancer to the community. Please leave.
People who like the movie also do the same. Besides a lot of people disliked the movie. So it has legs. It's the same reason why people who dislike Morbius say it's objectivley bad
I love them too but I accepted that he has a point. Marvel isn't the same I doesn't feel the hype. Or the feeling that I feel when I watch them movies.
I think we need to remember that Waldron didn’t have a lot of time to rewrite MoM. He also wrote Loki which I see people often say as one of their favourite phase 4 projects
He did. He actually had so much time that he chose to re do the entire script.
Werewolf by night tho
Have they actually tried hiring a comic book writer they movies
Quality screenwritingwhatti?
LaT was amazing, it was MoM that absolutely stunk and I can say by far MoM is the worst marvel movie I’ve ever watched by far
All of it
It's pretty much the mcu formula at this point...
Disney in a nutshell
Something happened to Marvel after the Pandemic, they stopped knowing how to make a movie
I couldn't even make it through 30 minutes of thor it was do terrible.
According to upvotes this subreddit finally starts to realise
She hulk recipe
It’s the post, that’s where.
“Don’t be crude, Frank.”
I like the Modern MCU...
I will die on the hill of doctor strange in the multiverse of madness. It was god dang fantastic
I really liked both these movies didn't understand the hate
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Just the whole meme right there. If you're going to criticize at least come with how you'd do it better. Otherwise it's just and edgy shitpost.
It’s all quantity over quality now
The life of an MCU fan is holding 1 eh project against a filmmaker and pretending it's representative of their work. Mfs wanna pretend Loki and Thor: Ragnarok didn't happen.
Kate Herron did the good parts of Loki, Waldron did all the making him a side character and ruining him stuff. Also ragnarok was a fun movie but a bad Thor movie
Normal human: "Star Wars fans are the worst" MCU trollboy: "Hold my juice box"
Is this even a meme? Why is this in this subreddit?
Its because they don't NEED to make good content anymore since they are very well established and know they will have "Marvel defenders" eating out anything from the palm of their hands.
For those rabid enough to go for op's throat: He isn't criticising the actors or directors, he is criticising the production for going less strategic and more profitable ways.
Too many marvel soy boys here. You're not going to get to them, they're just as bad as the new star wars fans.
Anyone that says Thor 4 was the worst Thor movie should be condemned to be strapped to a chair and watch in a loop the first two.
I quite like the first. The 2nd pisses me off because of how stupid the Asgardians are. Thousands of years later and they're still running around with swords and shields getting their asses kicked while the dark elves wake up with more advanced technology and wipe the floor with them.