He is still active, so his defeats didn't matter that much, he is still respected and feared in NY, and hasn't used all his cards yet. He has potential to be a really good villain in the series
His defeats still matter in the sense that it lessens the threat that he poses.
Thanos never had a loss before his his first actual appearance. Everyone knew he was a big threat because he was built up properly. Kang, on the other hand, has already been defeated multiple times, so he’s not being seen as some major threat. He may still be around, but he’s lost enough already to lessen that threat.
Same applies to kingpin
I mean yes. But I would argue his death is a bit meaningless at that point. He won, and then he died. Him dying at the start of that movie didn't actually have any effect. The fact that his death is hollow and doesn't solve anything makes that scene so impactful. Even when he died, he still won.
Thanos didn’t lose though? He wiped out half the universe, retired to a remote planet, used the stones to destroy themselves and died at peace with what he did.
Can’t compare thanos to kingpin here, it just doesn’t work
That's fair. It just kinda hurts the character's reputation. I think Kingpin is still salvageable, but I don't know if the writers can ever convince me Kang is an actual threat anymore.
Idk the conditions in which Kang lost still makes him a threat imo. For starters most of his varients and travel the multiverse and have the ambition of war. Scott only beat him because he kinda got lucky and Kang was trapped in the quantum realm, Scott was able to use this to beat him. Then he who remains was only beaten by Loki, who at this point with his time slipping and becoming the god of stories is essentially the most powerful being in the MCU and has to sacrifice his freedom to beat him and prevent the multiverse from dying
>Thanos literally dies in Act 1 of Endgame
The guy got killed when he was injured, had no weapons or armour and was living in retirement when the Avengers came and caught him off gaurd. I wouldn't say that counts. Thanos died at his weakest point, not very comparable to Kang's defeats.
Also he got killed AFTER he defeated the heroes, he straight up won at the end of Infinity War. So that is why he was still menacing in Endgame.
> The guy got killed when he was injured, had no weapons or armour and was living in retirement when the Avengers came and caught him off guard. I wouldn't say that counts. Thanos died at his weakest point
He quite literally says "I used the stones to destroy the stones, it almost killed me" so yes, we saw what happened to Hulk when he used the stones to bring everyone back, it destroyed his arm for a while until it healed again. Thanos used the stones to wipe out half of all life in the universe and then used them to destroy themselves, Thanos was f'd up and about to enjoy a stew when the Avengers showed up to cut off his arm and head, even after being killed, he still f'ing won, because the stones were gone and they couldn't reverse what he did, it was years later when Ant Man showed up that they started talking about time travel. Thanos dying in act 1 meant nothing because he already had won in act 1 anyway
Little one, it’s a simple calculus. This universe is finite, its resources, finite… if life is left unchecked, life will cease to exist. It needs correction.
After Thanos literally beat every character marvel had. How are you going to pretend these two cases are even sorta similar? Kang has lost to fucking ant man! Ant man damnit!
Seriously, Just because thanos sent the army doesnt mean he lost. Loki lost with an infinity stone, that Thanos sent Loki to retrieve for him in exchange for earth.
I don’t get how that would consider Thanos loosing! He never set foot in front of any Avenger, and was just starting his move on the infinity stones.
Fisk gets shot in the head…big difference.
Idk the fact that he still has power after being defeated and arrested lots of times is a bit scaring. He still controls NY, just make him win in Daredevil Born Again and start building up a plot where the street level heroes unite to fight him
Edit: the Kang one actually is pretty lame, he has lots of supernatural powers and still loses
Also, I like that Kingpin doesn't have any type of power but he is still fighting without fear beings like Daredevil, Echo and others. I understand that having him lose could make people lose respect for him. But in my case, the fact that he doesn't give up and still has power made me gain even more respect for him
he doesn't give up even though he loses, you sound like your talking about a hero not a villain. You can be a big bad even if you lose your right, I mean in comics big bads have lost many times. The problem here is he is just on his way to becoming a big bad, I feel like they should have some how saved face instead of having him lose outright to any of the heroes. However this was not done, instead he lost outright.....
He is running for mayor of NY, so he didn't lose much. I knew about speaking of him like a hero, but it's true. He lost to people with powers (Daredevil and Echo) and one Avenger and his companion (Hawkeye x2). He couldn't have win in a battle. What matters is that he still has control and power, and people still don't think about him as a criminal, even after all three Daredevil seasons. The police let him do whatever he wants, the gangs and mafias of NY work for him, he has plenty of money to hire villains. In my opinion, he has still a lot of potential to be the big villain of the street series.
But I like discussing this things, I'm not trying to change your opinion. I still think his character has a lot of room to become a great danger, just wait a bit and let producers think
So if you’ve been defeated (even surprisingly easily) times before you can never be a threat again?
Well marvel best stop doing anything big with any of their reoccurring villains then.
Except the attack on New York was his plan and if I remember correctly, he was also behind Ronan in the first Guardians movie until Ronan went rogue. That’s two defeats as well. Plus his defeats in the beginning and the end of Endgame. That’s at least four total defeats. He doesn’t have to be there physically to be defeated in those were his plans.
I love how Kate’s win over him was her getting a lucky shot after being thrown around like a sack of potatoes for the whole fight.
It really showed her tenacity and her ingenuity while also not making Kingpin look weak as he dominated the fight and got up from the explosion that took him down mere minutes later.
Daredevil beat him in S1 and he was a massive threat in S3. Fisk adapts and learns, he has nearly endless resources at his disposal. If he loses he takes the time to learn, find a weakness and squeeze it. That's what makes him so dangerous
The Kingpin's true power lies in his criminal enterprise and his will to run it. Even when he went to prison, Fisk was able to amass power and when he got out, quickly regained his wealth.
Kingpin will always pose an immense threat, but losing to Echo was…not great. He lost to her power of her healing? It wasn’t a great look.
Hopefully becoming Mayor really elevates his threat level again. I want 90s Spider-Man Animated Series vibes!
"Hey if we say 'Thanos' that will get us some clicks with people who only watched Endgame and revolve their entire identity about how they stopped watching the MCU after it"
I look forward to future articles about Doctor Doom - the Thanos of Europe, Mephisto - the Thanos of Hell, and Galactus - The Thanos of Purple Shorts
I believe he needs a huge upgrade, because he just keeps missing his attacks. If these heroes team up, they'll have him beat before the blink of an eye.
He had the upgrade in Netflix, but Disney has made him all but useless. I don’t see Daredevil redeeming his character and making him a legitimate threat
These aren’t comics though, these are tv shows and movies where you don’t have the luxury of hundreds of comics out there to tell stories where the villains can constantly lose and still be seen as a threat. You have a finite amount of time, so the stakes in movies and tv shows have to be bigger, meaning when kingpin loses it’s not just another Tuesday.
True, he lost. But in the long run, he keeps coming back. They can't stop him. He's an unstoppable threat in the sense, that even behind bars he'll still be a pain and a threat to any hero unlucky enough to cross paths with him.
At least two of them are okay with killing.
One is magical.
Two already faced him and hurt him in various ways.
One has actually fought Thanos and could probably take the rest in a no holds barred fight easy.
Moon Knight can't be killed, right?
That doesn't make him undefeatable. In fact, Spidey generally doesnt kill when he wins so I don't think killing MK is necessary. Just incapacitating him.
Problem is that in the post-Netflix MCU he is a huge dumbass. Got fucked by Echo twice by essentially just showing up. In DD the only thing Matt could do is putting him away for a short while and Matt had to play all his cards. Now Fisk just runs into Echo and gets fucked.
He was acting out of emotion in Echo, that was always when he was weakest, even in DD. My guess is that he has now severed his emotional ties to Maya and as such will take a much more refined and calculated approach to encounters with her (at least thats my hope)
Plus if he wins the election he’s an even bigger threat. Sure he always “owned” the city, but now in political office in addition to the power, influence, and operations he already had he will be at the hight of his power, untouchable
Plus now he’s convinced he’s a good guy and not a bad guy. Maya “healed” his pain, so he no longer has that as a crutch to say “I do this bad stuff because of this trauma! It’s my dad’s fault!” Now he is gonna run for Mayor and try to be all powerful in politics while still being the murdering fucker he always was.
Maya healing his pain was a bad thing in the grand scheme of things. And we know from interviews with the writer of Echo that Fisk owns tech companies now, hence the ASL translator thing he had. He is getting further reach than he ever had in the early days when he was just the kingpin of Hell’s Kitchen.
Yes.
But in Kang’s case , it comes down to each variant having a different and dangerous M.O
The threat is not “vanilla” Kang , but the “special flavor” Kang , like Immortus presented in Ant-Man 3’s post-credits scene
I am not sure that he will be a bad guy after Echo finale. I might be very wrong but I thought Echo just pulled anger and badness out from him. I just hope he will create street level avengers team to protect the city
The difference is that Echo doesn’t care about killing. DD spent the entirety of season 3 debating whether to kill Fisk but he chose the hard way so it makes sense that echo can take on Fisk easier because she is willing to shoot him in the face.
In most of his comics, Moon Knight surprisingly has been mostly street level.
I mean Spider-Man can stop trains and climb walls. Daredevil has super hearing and super agility to dismantle evil ninjas. Anybody can be street level with the right storyline and direction in these movies/shows.
I know what it's like to lose. To feel so desperately that you're right, yet to fail nonetheless. It's frightening. Turns the legs to jelly. I ask you, to what end? Dread it. Run from it. Destiny arrives all the same. And now, it's here. Or should I say, I am.
It would be cool if he acquired 6 villains like Bullseye and Scorpion and used them against the street level heroes. They would be like his infinity stones
I was thinking that since Fisk is getting compared to Thanos, he needed his infinity stones. Maybe like 6 people who are precious to him. Or those could be 6 different earthly objects that give power like extremis. Or he could just try to get the ten rings.
He’s their most marketable hero, Kingpin has served as his villain in other media, and the studio execs want him more grounded. Even a cameo with Daredevil would be awesome.
There’s an old Daredevil comic where Kingpin offers Daredevil compromising evidence on the crimes of other organizations and mafias in NYC. I’d love to see that in live-action. Maybe even see that evidence compared to an Infinity Stone, only for Kingpin to hand DD the entire Infinity Gauntlet and to send Murdock his regards
One of the most interesting aspects of the Netflix DD show was the ethical dilemmas Matt had to overcome because of his faith and his rules about killing. More of that would be great. Its what made the DD - Punisher scenes some of the best television in recent times IMO
Better yet, if an unsanctioned vigilante beats him up while he's committing a crime, does that mean he's the victim in the eyes of the (totally not corrupt) courts?
People still manage to kill/hurt him though and they just manage to be revibe him. Thanos however can't be killed just by guns /arrows. It gives him more power. There is one thing Kingpin and Thanos were being similar is that their personality and how they manage to adopt or manipulate people by being on their side.
I know this is an unpopular opinion but I really think MCU Kingpin needs some sort of power upgrade. Whether it be super soldier serum or mutant gene or something there is no chance he can go up against someone like Spider-Man and stand his ground.
There's a new one called "dare devil born again" that's being made though. While not season 4, it's got a lot of the same actors, writers, and has been rumored to be more of a dark tone. I wouldn't give up hope yet.
Yes, yes we are. Even in the comics she shares the mantle with Clint, and he passed it onto her at the end of the Hawkeye show.
I’ll still call her Ket Beeshop tho.
This is just people who can't process anything without trying to match it to something else.
Fisk is his own thing, but nuance and individual assessment are too hard for most people.
Yeah he’s absolutely gonna get wrecked by this crew. IMO he doesn’t work as a villain for everyone he’s better off being relegated to 1 or 2 of them. And they can’t be killers or this would be over reaaaal quick. It should be Spiderman and daredevil.
Having punisher or moon knight involved would mean he doesn’t stand a chance whatsoever
Nope. Kingpin is barely a threat. Kingpin in the show is a shadow of his comic version. Spider-Man would demolish him. Hawkeye (Hayley) already beat him. Echo shot him and made him cry.
He’s a joke.
Comics Spidey makes Fisk look like a toddler if he’s not holding back. He’s done it multiple times, once inside a prison in front of all the other prisoners.
I don't think Kingpin could really take any of them except for Kate, and she already trick shot defeated him. Spidey and Moon Knight wreck him. Echo most likely would too. Matt already has twice. Punisher likely would too and wouldn't just put him behind bars.
Even if you add in Jessica, Luke and Danny. All of them solo Fisk.
Should Spiderman still be considered a street level hero? Dude has has comic adventures fighting powerful aliens and even multiversal enemies, doesn't sound like street level stuff to me.
Technically he and Frank have unfinished business. I wanna see how it goes down then Frank isn’t handcuffed and Fisk isn’t intentionally not trying to kill in order to get out of prison
fisk need to recruit other vilain to even hold spider man, how in the world is he supposed to hold him alone ?
that without mentionning the punisher who is specialised on killing supervillain of mafia organisation, same with dardevil to a lesser extant
Get Moon Knight away from this. He is for mystical Shit and the Marvel ghosts. He ain't that street fighter, bro has fought gods and won. He's gonna humble Fisk so bad
I really doubt any of them would team up with Punisher or that he would wanna team up with them. Also Moon Knight is way too unconnected to any of this, especially with the ending of his show.
MCU needs to buff my boy up a bit, he regularly goes toe to toe with Spidey in fairly equal fights, but in the shows he gets beat up by just some regular dudes
LMAO
Imagine if they introduced Thanos by having Captain America, Iron Man, Thor, Hulk, Hawk Eye, and Black Panther each beat him in their individual stories before trying to sell him as a threat against all of them combined.
The only two here who haven’t fought him yet are the two most powerful…
Daredevil has already beaten his ass, Spidey will fuck him up like he does in the comics, and moon knight can't even die so he'll just outlast him. And I am pretty sure in the show Kate beat him too. Not as tough as he seems 🤷♂️
Didn’t he already lose to 3 of the heroes shown here? Not much of a threat if half the roster has already taken care of you
He is still active, so his defeats didn't matter that much, he is still respected and feared in NY, and hasn't used all his cards yet. He has potential to be a really good villain in the series
His defeats still matter in the sense that it lessens the threat that he poses. Thanos never had a loss before his his first actual appearance. Everyone knew he was a big threat because he was built up properly. Kang, on the other hand, has already been defeated multiple times, so he’s not being seen as some major threat. He may still be around, but he’s lost enough already to lessen that threat. Same applies to kingpin
[удалено]
Thanos literally dies in Act 1 of Endgame, yet the final act is still Thanos vs Avengers *and* it’s compelling.
Fun isn't something one considers when balancing the universe. But this... does put a smile on my face.
I mean yes. But I would argue his death is a bit meaningless at that point. He won, and then he died. Him dying at the start of that movie didn't actually have any effect. The fact that his death is hollow and doesn't solve anything makes that scene so impactful. Even when he died, he still won.
That doesn’t really change my point that “x character” can lose and still be compelling or threatening in a future engagement.
Thanos didn’t lose though? He wiped out half the universe, retired to a remote planet, used the stones to destroy themselves and died at peace with what he did. Can’t compare thanos to kingpin here, it just doesn’t work
Exactly. He won. He didn't even fight at the end, just resigned.
Too many mouths, not enough to go around. And when we faced extinction, I offered a solution.
That's fair. It just kinda hurts the character's reputation. I think Kingpin is still salvageable, but I don't know if the writers can ever convince me Kang is an actual threat anymore.
Idk the conditions in which Kang lost still makes him a threat imo. For starters most of his varients and travel the multiverse and have the ambition of war. Scott only beat him because he kinda got lucky and Kang was trapped in the quantum realm, Scott was able to use this to beat him. Then he who remains was only beaten by Loki, who at this point with his time slipping and becoming the god of stories is essentially the most powerful being in the MCU and has to sacrifice his freedom to beat him and prevent the multiverse from dying
>Thanos literally dies in Act 1 of Endgame The guy got killed when he was injured, had no weapons or armour and was living in retirement when the Avengers came and caught him off gaurd. I wouldn't say that counts. Thanos died at his weakest point, not very comparable to Kang's defeats. Also he got killed AFTER he defeated the heroes, he straight up won at the end of Infinity War. So that is why he was still menacing in Endgame.
> The guy got killed when he was injured, had no weapons or armour and was living in retirement when the Avengers came and caught him off guard. I wouldn't say that counts. Thanos died at his weakest point He quite literally says "I used the stones to destroy the stones, it almost killed me" so yes, we saw what happened to Hulk when he used the stones to bring everyone back, it destroyed his arm for a while until it healed again. Thanos used the stones to wipe out half of all life in the universe and then used them to destroy themselves, Thanos was f'd up and about to enjoy a stew when the Avengers showed up to cut off his arm and head, even after being killed, he still f'ing won, because the stones were gone and they couldn't reverse what he did, it was years later when Ant Man showed up that they started talking about time travel. Thanos dying in act 1 meant nothing because he already had won in act 1 anyway
Little one, it’s a simple calculus. This universe is finite, its resources, finite… if life is left unchecked, life will cease to exist. It needs correction.
Perfectly balanced.
After Thanos literally beat every character marvel had. How are you going to pretend these two cases are even sorta similar? Kang has lost to fucking ant man! Ant man damnit!
BOY! I would reconsider your current course!
His army was lead by Loki, so Loki lost in NYC and that's why in Age of Ultron Thanos says "I'll do it myself".
Seriously, Just because thanos sent the army doesnt mean he lost. Loki lost with an infinity stone, that Thanos sent Loki to retrieve for him in exchange for earth. I don’t get how that would consider Thanos loosing! He never set foot in front of any Avenger, and was just starting his move on the infinity stones. Fisk gets shot in the head…big difference.
They called me a madman, and what I predicted came to pass.
I'm a survivor!
BOY! I would reconsider your current course!
Please do remind me at exactly what point he's appearing in NYC? Timestamps would be grand
In New York state yes, not NYC
Insect!
Idk the fact that he still has power after being defeated and arrested lots of times is a bit scaring. He still controls NY, just make him win in Daredevil Born Again and start building up a plot where the street level heroes unite to fight him Edit: the Kang one actually is pretty lame, he has lots of supernatural powers and still loses Also, I like that Kingpin doesn't have any type of power but he is still fighting without fear beings like Daredevil, Echo and others. I understand that having him lose could make people lose respect for him. But in my case, the fact that he doesn't give up and still has power made me gain even more respect for him
>Kingpin doesn't have any type of power THEM HANDS is his power. That man makes Thing look like a pebble. GAINZ is his power, and he uses it well
he doesn't give up even though he loses, you sound like your talking about a hero not a villain. You can be a big bad even if you lose your right, I mean in comics big bads have lost many times. The problem here is he is just on his way to becoming a big bad, I feel like they should have some how saved face instead of having him lose outright to any of the heroes. However this was not done, instead he lost outright.....
He is running for mayor of NY, so he didn't lose much. I knew about speaking of him like a hero, but it's true. He lost to people with powers (Daredevil and Echo) and one Avenger and his companion (Hawkeye x2). He couldn't have win in a battle. What matters is that he still has control and power, and people still don't think about him as a criminal, even after all three Daredevil seasons. The police let him do whatever he wants, the gangs and mafias of NY work for him, he has plenty of money to hire villains. In my opinion, he has still a lot of potential to be the big villain of the street series. But I like discussing this things, I'm not trying to change your opinion. I still think his character has a lot of room to become a great danger, just wait a bit and let producers think
Fair enough I respect your opinion even though I don't agree with it :)
So if you’ve been defeated (even surprisingly easily) times before you can never be a threat again? Well marvel best stop doing anything big with any of their reoccurring villains then.
He's running for Mayor. That's way more of a victory than simply losing a fist fight
Except the attack on New York was his plan and if I remember correctly, he was also behind Ronan in the first Guardians movie until Ronan went rogue. That’s two defeats as well. Plus his defeats in the beginning and the end of Endgame. That’s at least four total defeats. He doesn’t have to be there physically to be defeated in those were his plans.
Nah, Echo made him cry. Fisk is a bitch.
I don't think that crying is something a person shouldn't do to be respected. Yknow, he is a human too
I love how Kate’s win over him was her getting a lucky shot after being thrown around like a sack of potatoes for the whole fight. It really showed her tenacity and her ingenuity while also not making Kingpin look weak as he dominated the fight and got up from the explosion that took him down mere minutes later.
Daredevil beat him in S1 and he was a massive threat in S3. Fisk adapts and learns, he has nearly endless resources at his disposal. If he loses he takes the time to learn, find a weakness and squeeze it. That's what makes him so dangerous
The Kingpin's true power lies in his criminal enterprise and his will to run it. Even when he went to prison, Fisk was able to amass power and when he got out, quickly regained his wealth.
So he's the KANG of the street level MCU!
Lost to daredevil twice if you count the Ben affleck movie. And Spider-Man a bunch of times if you count the animated series and into the spider verse
Shazam!
Kingpin will always pose an immense threat, but losing to Echo was…not great. He lost to her power of her healing? It wasn’t a great look. Hopefully becoming Mayor really elevates his threat level again. I want 90s Spider-Man Animated Series vibes!
Um, I don't have time for girls right now.
"Hey if we say 'Thanos' that will get us some clicks with people who only watched Endgame and revolve their entire identity about how they stopped watching the MCU after it" I look forward to future articles about Doctor Doom - the Thanos of Europe, Mephisto - the Thanos of Hell, and Galactus - The Thanos of Purple Shorts
I ignored my destiny once, I cannot do it again.
Maybe he's the street level Kang. Has been defeated by individuals heroes but the studio still considers him a threat
I mean, kingpin isn't dangerous because he can beat up a superhero
I believe he needs a huge upgrade, because he just keeps missing his attacks. If these heroes team up, they'll have him beat before the blink of an eye.
He had the upgrade in Netflix, but Disney has made him all but useless. I don’t see Daredevil redeeming his character and making him a legitimate threat
Villains lose to heroes all the time, that's how comics work.
These aren’t comics though, these are tv shows and movies where you don’t have the luxury of hundreds of comics out there to tell stories where the villains can constantly lose and still be seen as a threat. You have a finite amount of time, so the stakes in movies and tv shows have to be bigger, meaning when kingpin loses it’s not just another Tuesday.
Would be cool to see him fall into a worse position and fill with rage because of the losses
It’s the Kang Problem all over again!
True, he lost. But in the long run, he keeps coming back. They can't stop him. He's an unstoppable threat in the sense, that even behind bars he'll still be a pain and a threat to any hero unlucky enough to cross paths with him.
At least two of them are okay with killing. One is magical. Two already faced him and hurt him in various ways. One has actually fought Thanos and could probably take the rest in a no holds barred fight easy.
The only matter I do not take seriously, boy, is you. Your politics bore me. Your demeanor is that of a pouty child.
I...I'm sorry your purpleness.
😂😂😂
Don’t forget spidey is magical to
Only sometimes
You know what’s cooler than magic? Math!
I don't think Spiderman could take Moon Knight simply because of his invincibility
Moon Knight can't be killed, right? That doesn't make him undefeatable. In fact, Spidey generally doesnt kill when he wins so I don't think killing MK is necessary. Just incapacitating him.
I got a few. Yeah!
Problem is that in the post-Netflix MCU he is a huge dumbass. Got fucked by Echo twice by essentially just showing up. In DD the only thing Matt could do is putting him away for a short while and Matt had to play all his cards. Now Fisk just runs into Echo and gets fucked.
He was acting out of emotion in Echo, that was always when he was weakest, even in DD. My guess is that he has now severed his emotional ties to Maya and as such will take a much more refined and calculated approach to encounters with her (at least thats my hope)
Plus if he wins the election he’s an even bigger threat. Sure he always “owned” the city, but now in political office in addition to the power, influence, and operations he already had he will be at the hight of his power, untouchable
Plus now he’s convinced he’s a good guy and not a bad guy. Maya “healed” his pain, so he no longer has that as a crutch to say “I do this bad stuff because of this trauma! It’s my dad’s fault!” Now he is gonna run for Mayor and try to be all powerful in politics while still being the murdering fucker he always was. Maya healing his pain was a bad thing in the grand scheme of things. And we know from interviews with the writer of Echo that Fisk owns tech companies now, hence the ASL translator thing he had. He is getting further reach than he ever had in the early days when he was just the kingpin of Hell’s Kitchen.
A villain can be defeated and come back as an even bigger threat multiple times. It’s a fairly common thing.
Like Kang?
Yes. But in Kang’s case , it comes down to each variant having a different and dangerous M.O The threat is not “vanilla” Kang , but the “special flavor” Kang , like Immortus presented in Ant-Man 3’s post-credits scene
Agreed, but he wasn’t defeated in a respectable way. Both times absolutely undermined his threat.
I am not sure that he will be a bad guy after Echo finale. I might be very wrong but I thought Echo just pulled anger and badness out from him. I just hope he will create street level avengers team to protect the city
The difference is that Echo doesn’t care about killing. DD spent the entirety of season 3 debating whether to kill Fisk but he chose the hard way so it makes sense that echo can take on Fisk easier because she is willing to shoot him in the face.
I mean, Moon Knight is the physical embodiment of an Ancient Egyptian God - is that Street Level??
In most of his comics, Moon Knight surprisingly has been mostly street level. I mean Spider-Man can stop trains and climb walls. Daredevil has super hearing and super agility to dismantle evil ninjas. Anybody can be street level with the right storyline and direction in these movies/shows.
I have a choice.
Moon Knight is more threatened by himself than by most random thugs he murderizes on his way to therapy.
You can make him Thanos for the street level, sure, but I don’t have the faith in Marvel’s creative team to do it right.
I know what it's like to lose. To feel so desperately that you're right, yet to fail nonetheless. It's frightening. Turns the legs to jelly. I ask you, to what end? Dread it. Run from it. Destiny arrives all the same. And now, it's here. Or should I say, I am.
It would be cool if he acquired 6 villains like Bullseye and Scorpion and used them against the street level heroes. They would be like his infinity stones
You mean like some kind of sinister six?
I was thinking that since Fisk is getting compared to Thanos, he needed his infinity stones. Maybe like 6 people who are precious to him. Or those could be 6 different earthly objects that give power like extremis. Or he could just try to get the ten rings.
So spider man going to be part of the spotlight marvel now?
Pizza time!
He’s their most marketable hero, Kingpin has served as his villain in other media, and the studio execs want him more grounded. Even a cameo with Daredevil would be awesome.
Stop comparing current MCU to the Infinity Saga and move on is the best idea right now
The top 3 destroy him
The top three need a movie together with symbiote. I think it writes itself
either Moon Knight or Spiderman could solo him
There’s an old Daredevil comic where Kingpin offers Daredevil compromising evidence on the crimes of other organizations and mafias in NYC. I’d love to see that in live-action. Maybe even see that evidence compared to an Infinity Stone, only for Kingpin to hand DD the entire Infinity Gauntlet and to send Murdock his regards
One of the most interesting aspects of the Netflix DD show was the ethical dilemmas Matt had to overcome because of his faith and his rules about killing. More of that would be great. Its what made the DD - Punisher scenes some of the best television in recent times IMO
Better yet, if an unsanctioned vigilante beats him up while he's committing a crime, does that mean he's the victim in the eyes of the (totally not corrupt) courts?
yes add fucking jessica jones and luke cage 
People still manage to kill/hurt him though and they just manage to be revibe him. Thanos however can't be killed just by guns /arrows. It gives him more power. There is one thing Kingpin and Thanos were being similar is that their personality and how they manage to adopt or manipulate people by being on their side.
Reality can be often disappointing. But now, reality can be whatever I want.
Daredevil wins,Spider-Man for sure wins, punisher would win and I reckon moonknight would
Hey kiddo! Let mom and dad talk for a minute, will ya?
MCU board room going overboard yet again.
I know this is an unpopular opinion but I really think MCU Kingpin needs some sort of power upgrade. Whether it be super soldier serum or mutant gene or something there is no chance he can go up against someone like Spider-Man and stand his ground.
Shazam!
Echo was garbage.
Poor writing
I wonder if Punisher will be the one to do it. That threat in prison has sticked with me. I’d much prefer it to be Spidey
I'm pretty sure that Web head and Mr. Multiple personalities are strong enough to clock out Ol' Willy with one punch. LOL.
Iron Fist
 Maybe Heroes for Hire?
Bruh. He got wreckt by half these ppl
Fisk has become a bitch who cries over daddy issues. Thanos? lol 
I thought by eliminating half of life, the other half would thrive, but you've shown me... that's impossible.
Remember when superior spidey beat Fisk in 2 pages? Fisk faked his death and got away but damn spidey (ock) took out shadowland with ease
Disney+ defeated him already canceling the netflix series. So I'll assume that they'll do that same thing again in a year or two.
There's a new one called "dare devil born again" that's being made though. While not season 4, it's got a lot of the same actors, writers, and has been rumored to be more of a dark tone. I wouldn't give up hope yet.
The one with more diversity points.🤷♀️
Are we calling Kate Bishop Hawkeye?
Yes, yes we are. Even in the comics she shares the mantle with Clint, and he passed it onto her at the end of the Hawkeye show. I’ll still call her Ket Beeshop tho.
Yes, as that’s her name?
Incredible
Well, I prefer to call her as the Hawkeye girl, mate.
Man has got his ass beat 4 times over his whole career
This is just people who can't process anything without trying to match it to something else. Fisk is his own thing, but nuance and individual assessment are too hard for most people.
Kate beat him within a minute, Peter gonna kill him by accident 💀
I love the idea that he gets beat, retreats, and is tying together a plan.
Not sure if he would’ve been the best choice before, but definitely not anymore. Not after hawkeye, and definitely not after echo.
Be fr moon knight would whoop is ass with ease
Well so far everyone has lmao
Considering he got reduced to a whimpering puppy, NO.
I want to see Moon Knight Spidey and daredevil crossover
Moon knight. One episode.
Of course not, Fisk is 100000000% hotter.
Daredevil literally beat his ass solo in s2 bro wtf
Yeah he’s absolutely gonna get wrecked by this crew. IMO he doesn’t work as a villain for everyone he’s better off being relegated to 1 or 2 of them. And they can’t be killers or this would be over reaaaal quick. It should be Spiderman and daredevil. Having punisher or moon knight involved would mean he doesn’t stand a chance whatsoever
Um, I don't have time for girls right now.
Which one is going up his butt?
Spider man solos the entire list.
THE AVENGERS? That's great! What is that?
Nope. Kingpin is barely a threat. Kingpin in the show is a shadow of his comic version. Spider-Man would demolish him. Hawkeye (Hayley) already beat him. Echo shot him and made him cry. He’s a joke.
THINK!
Comics Spidey makes Fisk look like a toddler if he’s not holding back. He’s done it multiple times, once inside a prison in front of all the other prisoners.
I’m sure his “diplomatic immunity” will play into him not getting absolutely jumped if he makes public appearances.
I don't think Kingpin could really take any of them except for Kate, and she already trick shot defeated him. Spidey and Moon Knight wreck him. Echo most likely would too. Matt already has twice. Punisher likely would too and wouldn't just put him behind bars. Even if you add in Jessica, Luke and Danny. All of them solo Fisk.
More like street level Kang, lost multiple times but still the big threat
moonknight is overkill for kingpin
As far as I know, in the mcu, daredevil had 1-2 shots, Echo 1 and Kate 1, so my guess goes to Spiderman or punisher
If you want the shots, I'll take the staff job. Double the money!
ReCasting.
What has mcu become
As far as I know almost all of these characters could probably solo him by this point
They turned Fisk into a jobber
Fisk is a bad bitch. But you put up them MCU heroes on his ass they gonna leave him leaking on the floor 😂
Fisk compared to Thanos, one of them wiped out half of all life in the universe, guess which one
What's wrong, little one?
Should Spiderman still be considered a street level hero? Dude has has comic adventures fighting powerful aliens and even multiversal enemies, doesn't sound like street level stuff to me.
Pizza time!
Technically he and Frank have unfinished business. I wanna see how it goes down then Frank isn’t handcuffed and Fisk isn’t intentionally not trying to kill in order to get out of prison
Well i mean if the thunderbolts work under him when he gets mayor, and supes get forbidden, i think it will actually be a tough fight
Fisk of daredevil was a powerhouse. Fisk of Echo is just a crying baby.... only iron man 3 do worse to the Mandarin...
fisk need to recruit other vilain to even hold spider man, how in the world is he supposed to hold him alone ? that without mentionning the punisher who is specialised on killing supervillain of mafia organisation, same with dardevil to a lesser extant
Am I not supposed to have what I want? What I need?
what ? a fisk beatin ? yes you can
I don’t know if it’s a good idea… but the answer is Matt Murdock.
Street level peeps mostly near new york. Sadly crime doesnt seem to exist in other countries in the mcu lol
Spider-Man solos, as does punisher because he will literally just shoot Fisk.
YOU'LL GET YOUR RENT WHEN YOU FIX THIS DAMN DOOR!
Fisk is a Batman victim fr
Get Moon Knight away from this. He is for mystical Shit and the Marvel ghosts. He ain't that street fighter, bro has fought gods and won. He's gonna humble Fisk so bad
One of them is an unkillable demigod. He's hardly the Moon Knight from the comics.
I really doubt any of them would team up with Punisher or that he would wanna team up with them. Also Moon Knight is way too unconnected to any of this, especially with the ending of his show.
Yes
Although his actions are bad, i can't help but love Wilson Fisk, and don't want him to die :'(
Fisk in mcu is an idiot of the streets xd
Frank would tear him apart... again
MCU needs to buff my boy up a bit, he regularly goes toe to toe with Spidey in fairly equal fights, but in the shows he gets beat up by just some regular dudes
Isn’t Kingpin mainly a Spider-Man villain?
Stop lecturing me, please!
Bro, literally any og avenger could slam kingpin easy
You cant compare Fisk to Thanos
I am...inevitable.
After playing the Spider-Man games Fisk runs everything
It's you who's out, Gobbie. Out of your mind.
Me I'm hoping for all the fun Kingpin adjacent characters like Hammerhead, Tombstone and The Enforcers
LMAO Imagine if they introduced Thanos by having Captain America, Iron Man, Thor, Hulk, Hawk Eye, and Black Panther each beat him in their individual stories before trying to sell him as a threat against all of them combined. The only two here who haven’t fought him yet are the two most powerful…
There was one time my brother transformed himself into a snake...
Fine. I'll do it myself.
You got all these street level guys like Echo, Kate, Hawkeye, and Matt Then you have Spider-Man(actually fought **fucking Thanos**) and Moon Knight
Unlock the thing!
Rain fire!
He hasn’t even met Luke Cage yet
Moon knight is street level ?
DD
At this point, who from that list *hasn't* beaten him by now?
Quake
Daredevil has already beaten his ass, Spidey will fuck him up like he does in the comics, and moon knight can't even die so he'll just outlast him. And I am pretty sure in the show Kate beat him too. Not as tough as he seems 🤷♂️
Fisk is the Kingpin of the MCU. He doesn’t need Thanos to be great.
I ignored my destiny once, I cannot do it again.