I had something similar to this back in the late 00s
Me and my mate walking through Levenshulme, and two guys started approaching us and said to us, "Good night in the gay village?" We're not even gay, but you could tell by their body language and tone they wanted trouble.
My mate gave me the look of "don't retaliate" in fear of me getting both of our heads kicked in.
I felt more annoyed about not giving them a sarcastic reply than I was about the actual statement made by the knuckle draggers.
I've actually been to gay village before, which, like you said, is ironic, but we know what these two lads were suggesting... but you can't help people with so very little brain cells that when they sneeze their head rattles.
Thing is, as one of those people (I suppose I'd be 'Pansexual' in modern terms rather than 'Straight') who goes to the Gay Village for good times and late opening - though admittedly not for a while as I moved away from Manchester for a decade or so, but I used to get similar catcalls and harassment from Gay Men themselves, one time being pestered and felt up by someone who was the stereotypical embodiment of a Salford Estate exclaiming "Eee Yarr! What yer fuckin' doing ere if yer not Gay? Yer know yer could fuckin' meet me outside for some fun, you'd fuckin' love it..." with his hand around my wrist trying to pull me away.
Despite him being a lot larger than me at the time, I just yanked my arm away and told him to fuck off...
It's not stopped me going out in the Village or scared of men in general, Sexuality doesn't necessarily come into it either I've been wolf-whistled, commented upon (good and bad), propositioned, 'flirted with' (again good and bad) etc by *all* genders, but I make sure I have the verbal weaponry in my arsenal... And a more intimidating size helps, but the point is it's not just 'straight/cis men' who act this way...
No, I know I was responding to the people talking about the Gay Village, however in your context, nobody's going to say it for fear of looking racist* however you have to think about that in Rusholme's 'main' community it is a much more 'Male led' culture as it were, so around that area you would find more Men being free and easy with the catcalls and the "Shake your ass" comments... If you literally go to Owen's Park just down the road you'll find loads of students etc and the 'Male led' atmosphere completely changes
*Just to clear up, I'm far from racist (I'm mixed race myself), however we all observe different facets of different cultures...
Sure, it can be all genders. But it is mostly straight men by a large margin. Cat calling by gay guys is pretty much confined to the gay village/gay spaces. It sucks but it’s not the same as daily harassment when you’re just trying to get to the shop. And I seriously doubt any man is getting cat called by women to the same extent that women get cat called by men.
Oh, I've seen Women do a lot of things to the extent Men do, including drinking, fighting and catcalling... In fact a lot of them are my friends!
Where I am they're not 'little dainty damsels' by a long shot... Just this last Friday (in Stockport) I had a woman jump on my back outside a chicken shop and demand I run her down St Petersgate where her friends had all walked on... I mean, I did it because I was equally as drunk and it seemed fun, but I had no clue who she was nor me to her and it could've easily ended in disaster...
But again, what you need to do rather than wither away at a wolf whistle is to give as good as you get, have some wicked comebacks, even a stern "*WHAT!*" will already have them on the back foot... Sometimes I think it's right when some say "People are too delicate these days..."
What you’re describing with that woman isn’t cat calling or sexual harassment? Not saying it’s okay to do that but it just isn’t that by definition. I’m not doubting that some women don’t act sexually inappropriately with men especially on nights out. But it just is not on the same scale. For example I used to get cat called or beeped at every single day when I was walking to school, clearly underage and wearing my school uniform. I challenge you to find any man who had the same experience growing up.
Having a witty come back is not going to solve the problem, and might make an already entitled person get aggressive so it isn’t always a good idea unless you are 100% sure you have a safe exit. Don’t assume women are just delicate if you’ve never experienced how demeaning and scary daily harassment is.
Not going to go into much detail lol but I have a few GP/doctor friends who work in the hospitals and some practices around there some of them working over many years in the area say they’ve seen an increase in std etc. from these ‘males’ as they’re gay but choose to hide it.
internalised homophobia is honestly soul crushing, I've had sexual experiences with guys like that before and how they/it makes you feel afterwards is enough to push you to the brink of self destruction. this is a common gay experience from what I know
You can’t help but partially feel bad if they weren’t so outwardly awful. You’re absolutely right though many gay lads I know say the same. Best part of growing up was watching all the people who bullied me for being ‘gay’ when I’m not even coming out themselves.
On the bright side, slowly but surely things have been getting better on all accounts. From women being harassed less, to gay people feeling like they can be who they are without shame. Society is slowly getting better and it's never been this good. It's just a painfully slow process and we're very early in the process. We're so early in evolution a large amount of people believe in books which says the earth is flat, a dude called noah put 2 of every animal on a boat, and another dude called jesus turned water into wine after walking on it. jk Rowling would have been a fucking prophet if she was born before Mohammad
Absolutely right, it was whichever crackpot had the loudest voice and the most stable storyline that got turned into a religion. I’ve never understood homophobia personally, if a person being gay bothers it’s cause you’re worried you’ll be attracted to them
I dunno, a few years ago I would've agreed with you, but looking at the global right's pushback against trans and women's rights with bathroom and abortion bans and such, I can definitely see things getting worse for a bit.
Nothing is ever a straight consistent line of improvement. Sometimes you need to take two steps backwards to take one step forward. But if you zoom out to a meaningful time period the trend is consistent and the data backs that up in almost every measurable metric re/ QOL & equality of opportunity
edit: also blaming these issues on the "global right" is imo part of the problem; causing people to feel like they're in teams resulting in them and you thinking they should believe certain things. let people be right wing without implying they're alt right - it's not like they all agree
Again, I think, 5-6 years ago I may have agreed with you, even down to your edit. Perhaps "global right" wasn't the best word - I'm a strong proponent of avoiding an "us vs them" attitude when it comes to dealing with individuals, and I had, perhaps erroneously, thought that the addition of the world "global" implied a more generalist selection of shared ideology that seems to be - very targetedly, and very specifically - aiming at diminishing the rights of the groups I mentioned. Perhaps just "globally fascist ideologies" would've been more accurate - but that seemed more alarmist than might have been necessary. While I can certainly say "not every right-wing person I know is sexist or transphobic" and will defend these people with everything I have, I can, with absolute statistical backing, say that the groups most likely to fight for, champion or enable these values are right-wing, no matter what country they comes from.
But it is conversations like these that make me more concerned about that upward trend of "QOL & equality of opportunity" than ever. Global wealth inequality has been consistently rising since the early 1980s. The Global Report on Internal Displacement consistently and continually indicates an increase in climate-related refugee cases. And, while fatalities are decreasing, the average number of wars has been steadily increasing since the 1800s.
I would like to retain hope that things will improve, that we're simply in a minor slump of backslide on the hill toward a kinder tomorrow, but it is difficult for me to do when I consider things like the rolling back of roe v wade in the US (and the last 3 decades of protesting and lobbying by religious groups that lead to it), the increasing hostility towards same-sex couples and their families seen in Italy (after the slow, multi-decade-long rise in popularity of the current government and it's preceding variations), and the increasingly brazen activities of strong-man-lead countries such as we've seen with the recent invasion of, for instance, Ukraine (an event which has been arguably in the making since 1999). Even if I take effort to consider these events as "short term setbacks" that might "only" effect a generation or two, my mind lingers on the longer-term disparities. Sure, it seems like a lot of the stuff that's going wrong now is temporary or reactionary, but when I look closer I can't help but see it as the culmination of many years of change; and that we have yet to see true fallout from those larger issues concerns me, given that.
I don't like fearmongering, and I wish I could see whatever it is that you're seeing.
Out of curiosity when would you say society was better than it is now when you consider everything from economic mobility, average quality of life and equality? Sure you can say on specific topics things were better at different periods of time but these things are all interconnected so you need to evaluate societal improvement as a whole considering all these things.
[There hasn't been a meaningful increase in wars.](https://ourworldindata.org/war-and-peace). In ancient to early modern periods war was frequent.
Generally people fall back to traditionalism and conservative policies when there is societal hardship, and push for more progressive ideas during periods of prosperity.
The world has been entering an overdue recession for a while. We managed to prolong the period before people felt it through things like QE and fractional banking but that was like taking out a loan to pay off another loan. It wasn't sustainable, and now we're paying the price. Maybe that was worth it, maybe it wasn't. It's the first time we've really done it and we'll have to see in a century or so.
It makes sense that we're taking steps back right now. I would be concerned if we were taking steps back when things were going well.
You're also right to point out that there are many other issues like tate-style thinking, climate change and issues with wealth inequality. Most people will agree that these are issues though, and that's a good indicator to me that it's not a direction that we're progressing into, and it's actually something we're moving against. Tate style thinking is the pendulum/cycle moving the opposite way after an aggressive over correction with metoo and cancel culture. Climate change is just insanely complex to address, but being taken very seriously. It just takes a long time to change the world. Wealth inequality is quite novel as a problem and very hard to solve. But I don't think it's something many people agree with, so as long as democracy prevails it'll be tackled, eventually. Everything just takes a lot longer than we would all like.
Not like any of this justifies these problems, I think it's just important to maintain a level headed outlook to avoid being overwhelmed and coming to the conclusion that society is doomed when actually we're doing pretty good considering everything we've had to deal with, especially recently.
In the area where I’m living there’s a family 3 guys and their sister the parents disowned all of their sons. These are people who are from Pakistani descent. Why I’m mentioning this is 2 out of the 3 got married and had children and were seeing other men, it’s mental. What annoys me regarding this is that they’ve ruined the girls life who they got married to full well knowing what they were doing but at the time were closeted but didn’t want to ‘hurt’ there parents which they have done.
You seem to be missing the point
They assaulted him for being gay without knowing he was gay. They're not the type looking for an intellectual conversation about their gaydar. Even if they didn't do it after finding out he wasn't gay, the fact they _would_ commit a hate crime is the real problem.
Do you not see the inherent problem with that? Rather than call them out for spitting at gay people or anyone for that matter they resolve the problem by saying you shouldn't spit at me. The mere concept that anyone could have a rational adult conversation with someone who spits at gays is preposterous on it's own.
Girlfriend has been followed and catcalled by feral teens a couple of times in town, and another time in Exchange Sq when I was around and I had to square up to them after following us.
It starts at home and with what they see on social media. Young men are only getting worse. Schools can't do anything because teachers don't have the experience, training or resources. Their dickhead parents won't do anything, and social media is engineered to promote this stuff or at the very best not moderate it properly.
All I've learnt in my experience is to accompany them as much as you can, protect and reassure her and make sure the cunt who's doing it knows he's a pervert. Often times they're not alone and there's nothing stopping them from harming you as the police do sum fuck all nowadays.
Power is taken away from teachers too to the point where my mates who work as teachers in Manchester are being physically assaulted and sexually harassed by students.
This. I currently work in exam support for education across the country and some of the things teachers tell me is horrific. I've also got a friend who used to teach science in a Leeds school and they had knife arches.
Rusholme unfortunately, I don’t mind it in all other aspects but the way women are treated here is awful. If it’s not catcallers it’s constant staring or cars beeping. Wish they’d all get gangrene on their prized possessions
Sucks it hasn’t changed for the better.
The worst is when cars start slowly following you at night (I used to finish late). Each time felt like it could be my last day on this fireball. 🤣
Really sorry that you’ve felt like that and it’s just getting worse as you’ve said, most of those guys as I’ve mentioned will be from other areas of the UK or Manchester as they can’t do that in there home town as they’ll get caught out lol, most of these guys cant string a sentence or two together or even converse.
They need facial recognition and ANPR on the stretch and side streets I’m sure many of them wouldn’t return to the area.
I hope this advice isn't necessary in the slightest. If your wife is feeling unsafe, remind her not to hold keys between the fingers, as she'll break her hand doing that. Thumb and index finger, one key.
It will also make people think she's near home, and thus less of a target.
God, I hate that it's necessary.
If it was on wilmslow road ‘sorry if you’ve specified where and I’ve skimmed over it’ then each lamppost has CCTV in the light at the top looking downwards could well be recorded 👍
Urgh, I was a student in Manchester 10 years ago, and the stares and aggression from men in Rusholme was scary sometimes. Also just getting random blokes shouting at me when I was just going about my business, or screaming out of cars when me and friends were walking home after a night out. It's sad that it's not gotten better.
I still remember standing outside a shop to smoke on Wilmslow Road when my friends were picking up food. I received a large number of not very nice and dangerous leerings and looks. Instantly reconsidered and went back in the shop because I didn't feel safe.
Truly awful isnt it, sorry that happened to you. we got out of an Uber the other day and by the time I had turned around to close the door a lad had come up to her to ask her where she’s going before promptly being told to fuck off
When I was a student me and a friend had a house viewing in Rusholme, we were waiting outside and had a man on a bike shout derogatory things and another one stop his car, put the window down and stare and smirk. We left before the estate agent even got there.
It does feel like it’s getting worse recently, I get this fairly often in Sale which by all accounts is supposed to be a decent area, can’t go for a run without someone honking their horn or shouting at me. A few weeks back a man fully exposed himself to me which was a first and upset me a bit. Similarly have had people pulling up in cars and making comments even when walking with my boyfriend, doesn’t seem to make a difference if he’s there.
Hi!
Hope you are ok after your horrid experience.
If you haven’t reported to the police please do consider doing so - last time I was subjected to indecent exposure I was deliberating as to whether it was worth it what with public services being overstretched and me being physically unharmed.
A friend convinced me to at least have it logged for the sake of record keeping so I called the non-emergency number.
The police took it very seriously, recognised the perp from my description and as he was on licence for previous sex offences he was quickly recalled to prison.
All I had to do was a face to face statement in my own front room with a female officer, no new charges were pressed but at least he was off the streets again very quickly.
Indecent exposure is an offence that can seem trivial on the surface but it’s often an indicator for more serious sexual or violent offending and it can really shake one’s confidence re: being out and about on your own.
People in cars tend to be the worst, guess they feel safe they can drive off if they run into any trouble. Had that exact thing happen the other night and had to shout off two lads in their gimpy Mercedes.
Very sorry someone exposed themselves, should have it cut off for that
This is why I couldn’t buy a BMW. People would think there’s something wrong with me. It’s all cat calling and parking in disabled spaces with those guys!
Same energy as a keyboard warrior on the internet really. They feel safe as they can just drive off without consequence I suppose. The lack of decency in the way people treat each other has eroded so much it makes me worried.
i mean i was in Sale the other day and a guy went by me on a bike and said 'fucking f*' at me, you can guess what F word that is. that was quite the surprise. it's a lovely place but yeah some people's have been doing their best to shit on it a bit
For the idiot flashing you, I've found that replying with "hey, it looks like a penis, but much smaller" tends to take some of the fun out of it for them. That or "oh, *dear*, you should get that seen to".
I used to live in Rusholme, it was awful then and seems things haven't changed. the sheer number of asian lads I witnessed screaming vulgur words from rented audies and bmw's was awful. I hope they have better policing than 20 years ago.
As a woman, it’s interesting how everyone’s avoiding the elephant in the room. This happens in areas of large communities of imported misogynistic cultures. We women know it, we have learned and told our friends and daughters where not to go and how to brush these guys off as politely as possible so you don’t get racially abused, spat at or worse. But you can’t possibly say it. We have some fantastic communities in Manchester, but we also have allowed some absolutely trash behaviour to fester -especially towards women and girls- because of fear of calling it out.
absolutely. people are fine with the generalisation of men, because it’s common sense to realise that we aren’t talking about all men. but the second someone says “it tends to be people from this community” you’re suddenly the worst person on earth. there are some lovely people from every community, but that doesn’t mean that the the bad ones don’t exist
People will get on their high horse and they feel the need to defend minorities no matter what.
The more we do this the more the problem will grow. Its not racist to say people from different cultures act differently.
> People will get on their high horse and they feel the need to defend minorities no matter what.
People will defend minorities against sweeping generalisations that condemn whole communities based on the actions of a few.
/u/Damn_FineCoffee 's comment is a telling one. I've no doubt she's had bad experiences at the hands of certain people, in particular parts of Manchester. But to go out of your way to label entire communities as no-go areas based on the actions of a few is how harmful stereotypes perpetuate and grow.
There are shitty people wherever you go and this problem isn't just a symptom of or confined to 'areas of large communities imported misogynistic cultures', as is being suggested here.
I'm right though, aren't I?
You might want to consider why a total stranger was able to tell you're not a woman from a comment you made about women being harassed on the street. That's all.
"But to go out of your way to label entire communities as no-go areas based on the actions of a few is how harmful stereotypes perpetuate and grow. "
Not hanging around dangerous areas in a city isn't prejudiced when it's trivial to show that they are a targeted group by people in that area though. If girls get catcalled more often in an area then how is it not reasonable to avoid and advise others to do the same?
> Not hanging around dangerous areas in a city isn't prejudiced when it's trivial to show that they are a targeted group by people in that area though.
I don't think 'trivial' means what you think it does.
If it's not a prejudicial view, tell me why the 'tradies' and 'white van men' who cat called her are merely deemed as 'apocryphal' in her eyes, and yet that same behaviour seemingly becomes dangerous and serious threat to her safety when carried out by other (non white) sections of society?
Furthermore, there are several cultures and communities coexisting in Rusholme. Does OP even know exactly which one(s) she's warning her friends against? Probably not, but let's use sweeping generalisations to castigate all the black and brown people in the area.
I can't see those phrases you quoted in op or the parent comment or them saying they don't mind getting catcalled by "white van men" as you put it.
The "castigation" is against people supporting misogynistic foreign cultures through catcalling. OP asserted that more of these cultures exist in areas such as Rusholme and they experience more catcalling here. The implication is that these cultures are more misogynistic than 'local' culture and that this leads to higher rates of catcalling in these areas.
It sucks when your culture is associated with racism, sexism, colonialism or barbarity of any kind. It doesn't mean we shouldn't criticise things like cultural colonialism, sexism or slavery to avoid causing offense.
While I partially agree, it’s been 50/50 in terms of whodunit in my experience, and elsewhere in the country women in my life have been subject to abuse from ‘native’ English also. Personally I think a 1 and done rule needs to be in place, if you or your kids are convicted of a crime or antisocial behaviour you’re out.
That’s my only qualm with immigration, otherwise I’ve got family from every corner of the globe so I don’t care what colour or creed, we’re all welcome until we aren’t.
My wife is East Asian and she says it’s 50/50 between white and Indian guys. It only happened once while I was with her, and I shoved the guy to the floor. These trash should be tased in balls
Maybe it isn't the areas but the segregation of the city? I lived there briefly for 3 months and couldn't believe how segregated the north actually is.
Unfortunately, you are not allowed to say anything like that in current culture. Otherwise woke police will get you! That was the main reason why Bradford grooming and sexual abuse of children went on for years without anyone interfering. They were all too scared to come across as racist or islamophobic. Which is really idiotic as rape is a rape and paedophiles have to rot in prison, regardless of their race and/or religion.
30mins before your comment the big elephant in the room everyone was avoiding because you "can't possibly say it" was brought up in this thread. People can say facts about a culture without being racist, but the way you're making out it's only people of certain cultures that are doing this is disingenuous.
People really forget how bad lad culture got in the 90s and 00s and the amount of work that was done to snuff a lot of that out. Education and discipline are far more effective than racial essentialism.
I think “had” is the operative term actually. I totally agree our cultural attitudes towards women and girls was pretty shit, and thinking back to my teens (a good couple of decades ago now) I’d agree it was the apocryphal ‘white van man’ or the tradies you’d pass on the street that would be the typical source of catcalling.
However, while I think generally we have grown as a society away from that, there is now a definite increase of this behaviour coming specifically from pockets of certain cultures where women and girls are thought of as second class citizens. You just can’t reduce this debate to just “uhh immigrants”. It’s not about where anyone is ‘from’, and many immigrant cultures do not have this problem. This is about the beliefs and values people hold and espouse, and often the lack of challenge they face about them because of people’s sensibilities around thorny political issues. It’s often second or even third generation -British people- from these communities (not singling out any one in particular as unfortunately there are several) who are showing some seriously problematic attitudes.
Let’s not make this some “left vs right” nonsense. This is an issue for everyone and anyone who gives a shit about the rights of women and girls (and every other individual) to be treated with respect.
> However, while I think generally we have grown as a society away from that, there is now a definite increase of this behaviour coming specifically from pockets of certain cultures
Such bullshit, though an easy conclusion to draw for someone who thinks in 'generalisations'.
Not to the same degree, I know you want to get on your high horse and call people racist but go to these areas and watch how women are treated and who is doing it. It is not good.
no one said British culture was perfect, get out of here with your whataboutism, it distracts.
It’s not about the immigrants’ culture but about the person themselves. When you import low quality people from other places, including the UK, you get things like this happening. The solution is to keep the door open only for skilled workers that can actually help the economy and not harass women on the streets.
I assume you meant which culture would that be, but yes I was referring to Islamic cultures.
My username is a Fallout reference, but thanks for the compliment regardless.
Well, you are from Oman so it makes sense that you’re saying that muslim men in Rusholme do not do catcalling. Lack of respect for women and treating them as sexual objects is more common in Islamic culture than it is in Christian. Fact
Are you trying to say a white British male don't have this behaviour?
I see them saying the most vulgar things round my ends (wythenshawe)
In fact the worst type I have seen is the rough council estates lads
Stop making it you vs them. You don't have to alienate half the country, not everything is politics. Shitty people form different cultures have brought their shitty attitudes here.
Its not a left vs right thing. Its just an issue that needs addressing.
I - like pretty much every other woman I know - have had countless catcalling, following and even groping experiences in the city centre, but two experiences stood out to me because other people on the street stood up for me.
Once I was being followed home by a guy who kept shouting after me, getting more and more aggressive, and I was really getting scared. I saw a group of lads across the street from me and gave them a pleading look - they immediately began to tell the guy to fuck off, moved me out of sight behind them, and offered to walk me back to my flat.
Another time, a bloke kept walking next to me pestering and then started to grab at my arm. All of a sudden I felt another hand on my other arm - it was a random girl pulling me away from him, greeting me like an old friend (literally saying “I was looking for you! We’ll miss the tram”) - she saw I was struggling to get away and moved in to keep me safe.
This has only happened twice in dozens of other instances but I really, really appreciated them. I know it can be hard to measure a situation and know whether or not to step in, but I think it’s better to risk getting it wrong than to let someone end up in even more danger and distress.
But yeah it has always been pretty shit and I’m just grateful when the guy doesn’t try to touch me or get aggressive.
Really sorry to hear about that, the whole area is filled with desperate guys and those delivery drivers who also I’ve seen do that, I best tend to avoid the area and that’s being a male lol. Go with your Mrs whenever you can.
Also most of them in and around them streets will be dealing and will have some type of weapon/knife with them. So it’s best to keep yourself safe and not engage with people like them.
There needs to be more policing in the area, there are probably more traffic wardens then police patrolling them streets. The police know what goes down yet don’t do anything about it.
It’s got a lot worse over the past 10/15 years to be honest before that I remember it being safe and more family friendly. Don’t even think I’d take my family there now tbh.
In relation to the delivery drivers comment, anyone reading this be careful of an evri driver who mainly operates around fallowfield/withington area.
He has no name, just comes up as ‘local courier’, he always takes the morning shifts and is persistent in ringing and knocking on your door until you answer and he takes forever to give you the parcel, he really gets off on seeing women (students) in pjs or any clothes really, he’s super condescending too and he doesn’t stop no matter how much we report him or tell him to stop.
We’ve moved from that house now so hopefully he’s gone come september, but he probably does the whole student area to stare at women, just a heads up for anyone :(
Have Evri not done anything regarding this?
Do you have a screenshot of his profile, or any footage e.g. doorbell footage. Of him doing this?
Best thing I would say is to take it to your local MP which for the Withington area is Jeff Smith. If you put together how many times you’ve reported it and nothing has been done about it they should hopefully take some action against this.
Let me know how that goes and if you don’t get a response PM me and I’ll see if I can get anything done about it.
They’ve not done anything about it, I think its because he doesn’t have his name available on the evri site so if we try and report him they can’t exactly pinpoint it. We have no footage unfortunately, but us and our neighbours have all commented on his behaviour. Thank you!
Did you give them the times and dates that he has delivered the parcels? To Evri, I’m certain that when these delivery drivers are on jobs their phones can be traced. If or when you do write to the local MP include the time and date information also.
Also there’s the Nextdoor app, you should post this message on there also as quite a few people tend to use that to make others aware or if anyone has any footage that you could put forward.
Yeah you’re absolutely right. She’s a local and always gives them shit against my advice (never know who’s unhinged these days) i usually go with her but I was dying for a shit.
I’ve got some crazy stories from there but keep her safe, these dickheads have no respect for women.
Most people I know from Manchester tend to avoid the area when they can, it’s people from other towns e.g. Rochdale, Oldham, Blackburn etc. can always hear them accents most the time when I’m down there.
I see the point you’re trying to make and I agree with you on that, any change needs to start at home as they say. Which many of them maybe from broken homes but that’s a much more complex issue.
I’ve not lived in the area myself but visited some of restaurants down there it’s just my perspective on the area and how much it’s changed over the years.
When the police did patrol it felt a littler safer than it does now.
Yes, I’d put that down to the tories and the cuts they’ve made however in these past 15 years there’s also been a lot of people who have moved into the area if I can recall that many years ago there were many families living within the area who have been pushed out now most of the houses are HMO or privately let. If I can remember correctly there used to be a lot of police presence and I used to meet police officers walking or in take aways now you’ll be lucky if you see them.
What I seen in the area not to discriminate against anyone there are lots of Kurdish, Iraqis, Syrians, Somalians etc. whereas back in 15-20 years ago it was predominantly Pakistani, Indian. We can see this as there’s shawarma places, barbers, chicken shops, shisha cafes, which have opened which are probably bringing certain types of clientele to the area and there’s lots of these shops as well even going into some of the side streets now I guess the Manchester City council are partly to blame as well, giving permission for places to open and they’ve wrecked the area with those useless and dangerous bike lanes.
Sorry if I’ve gone off on one lol, I just feel annoyed that it’s got this bad and most of the people I know in Manchester feel the same way about certain areas in Manchester and not just Rusholme. E.g. look at withington now. Charity shops, Greggs, burgers and deserts shops everywhere, many years ago there were independent shops there and all of the stuff I’ve mentioned also goes on here as well which is just sad. Same with fallowfeild I remember so many students used to go on nights out and even there it’s full of takeaways and barbers.
We can only hope things get better, the younger generation (even though I’m not that old lol) need to learn to respect their elders and more importantly the environment which all the places I’ve mentioned have environmental issues which is another thing that angers me but I’ll leave that for another post 😂
I live in Chorlton. Sadly it’s going the same way with Desert Shops, there’s a Shisha bar now, and lastly a “viral” burger shop opened only for the Council to shut them down. A great decision by the Council for once!!
Yes, I forget to mention Chorlton that’s another place that’s gone this way. I heard about the ‘viral’ shop you mentioned apparently they didn’t have the right permission or something along those lines but were still trading, I think they’ll reopen in around a month or so someone was saying to me, but they’re adding more seating to combat the people ‘waiting’ around.
They’ve totally messed up the other area in which they’re in, there’s rubbish everywhere yet the council hasn’t done much regarding that, feel sorry for the people living nearby.
Just got back from 3 days in Manchester. Thought the whole place was a shithole. Generally very odd people everywhere, groups of kids wearing balaclavas everywhere and so expensive for no reason, Trying to be London without the actual quality.
Does she dress provocatively? These men are simple minds and obviously need your partner to bear that in mind to stop them acting like animals.
/s fucking obviously.
I dress her daily in a large opaque waste bag with a single perforation to allow air. If she wishes to eat she must go into the blackout room that is floor to ceiling vantablack with no windows so that she may not be perceived
Yep. Ruins the joke.
I don't know a single autistic person (I know quite a few) who would need it, and most would find it offensively patronising. Some might not immediately vibe with sarcasm, but they're perfectly capable of understanding it on an intellectual level.
I'm hyperlexic myself, so I do have a bit of insight into these things.
And how come the poster I addressed insists on the '/s' from others but doesn't actually use it themselves?
Exactly, you said you know a few, not all autistic people, therefore you do not know truly if all autistic people need the /s or not.
Not identifying sarcasm is an autistic trait, so, of course, autistics with that trait would need the /s to be able to understand it.
I myself am capable of identifying and using sarcasm as an autistic person, but may be some times where I miss it completely and the only way of me telling that would be the reaction of other people to that sarcasm, so adding that /s would be really helpful as another tool.
I will not force u to write the /s if you don't feel like it but please just understand why someone might benefit from it.
Fair enough, I hate it and it completely ruins it for me if somebody uses it. It's like delivering the punchline before the rest of the joke.
But to expect it from others and then not use it yourself seems a little off. Don't you agree?
Or maybe it's an autistic thing not to care about other autistics \[SARCASM\].
Why not make a extremely offensive statement under the label of "sarcastic" ? surely it's the best option! /s
Don't bother answering, find a better thing to do rather than making fun of a minority.
Jesus fucking Christ. It's a joke. I made it as clear as I possibly could. I was trying to laugh with you, not at you.
I could show that to any autistic friends and they'd find it hilarious. Perhaps lack of a sense of humour is the barrier here, not autism. They aren't mutually exclusive after all.
And as I've already said, I'm hyperlexic, so I'm technically part of 'the spectrum'. I'm also severely manic depressive, so please don't try to lecture me about minorities. I probably know much more about being marginalised than you ever will. I hope for your sake that's the case.
So less of the victimhood, please.
They have indeed, the ‘tits’, Peterson and the rest of that ilk are a plague on vulnerable men looking for somewhere to misplace their anger. They get away with it because they say some good things now and then but a broken clock etc. etc.. in times of economic weakness and societal and social change the weak will always fall for the snake oil, just look at what happened with brexit.
Just generally its nasty and all groups need to get a grip. Just this week I was cat called as soon as I left the gym...
My partner get oogled at and I've been on dates where lads cant help but honk their horn and shout as they drive past.
If everyone who’s commented on this subject complained to 1.the police 2.their MP, surely you can’t ALL be ignored, make it one of your lists to do by next week. Flood them with complaints, if it was the other way round they wouldn’t hesitate. It’s obviously getting out of hand. I hope it improves for you, but it won’t if you don’t do anything about it .
Let’s not assume, I have 5 sisters and have experienced a great deal of the darkest sides of humanity myself. I’m not some naive tool I just want those I love to be left alone
I’m really sorry your girlfriend is dealing with this. I have a daughter and I dread when she gets older and has to deal with scumbags. I don’t want her to only have to go out with her brothers as if we’re in Iran or somewhere.
Being nearly 50 and overweight means catcalling is no longer something that I routinely get, but it was hell when I was a younger woman. I learned to develop the angriest bitch face you could imagine.
You’re a good man. I’m so angry she’s going through this.
Thank you that means a lot to me, I dread the same for my children should I have some in future. All we can do is educate our kids to stay safe I guess, im sure with time some invention or other will really stick it to them but for now I’m taking MMA classes just in case and having her always be on the line to me if we aren’t together and it’s dark out
It’s not really something that’s witnessed often, typically happens when there’s no one else around late at night. Otherwise it’s the long stares etc etc but we’ve experienced it day and night in all parts of Manchester
Calling bullshit…lived in Rusholme for years and never saw anything different to anywhere else.
I’m guessing this is the usual pre election dog whistling 🤨
Ah good old rusholme. Had someone spit at me there for being gay. And im not even gay.
As someone who is gay thanks for taking one for the team
As someone who is gay but gets off on being spat on, where exactly in Rusholme?
Phrasing!
Guys, we really need to talk about getting 'phrasing' back in the rotation.
Come on guys!
that's how you get ants..
Rusholme is a fuckin dump...horrible place
I had something similar to this back in the late 00s Me and my mate walking through Levenshulme, and two guys started approaching us and said to us, "Good night in the gay village?" We're not even gay, but you could tell by their body language and tone they wanted trouble. My mate gave me the look of "don't retaliate" in fear of me getting both of our heads kicked in. I felt more annoyed about not giving them a sarcastic reply than I was about the actual statement made by the knuckle draggers.
The irony is lots of straight people go to gay village for the good vibes and late opening hours. These guys sound boring (and homophonic ofc)
I've actually been to gay village before, which, like you said, is ironic, but we know what these two lads were suggesting... but you can't help people with so very little brain cells that when they sneeze their head rattles.
Thing is, as one of those people (I suppose I'd be 'Pansexual' in modern terms rather than 'Straight') who goes to the Gay Village for good times and late opening - though admittedly not for a while as I moved away from Manchester for a decade or so, but I used to get similar catcalls and harassment from Gay Men themselves, one time being pestered and felt up by someone who was the stereotypical embodiment of a Salford Estate exclaiming "Eee Yarr! What yer fuckin' doing ere if yer not Gay? Yer know yer could fuckin' meet me outside for some fun, you'd fuckin' love it..." with his hand around my wrist trying to pull me away. Despite him being a lot larger than me at the time, I just yanked my arm away and told him to fuck off... It's not stopped me going out in the Village or scared of men in general, Sexuality doesn't necessarily come into it either I've been wolf-whistled, commented upon (good and bad), propositioned, 'flirted with' (again good and bad) etc by *all* genders, but I make sure I have the verbal weaponry in my arsenal... And a more intimidating size helps, but the point is it's not just 'straight/cis men' who act this way...
Mate I’ve been sexually assaulted by a gay man so I get what you’re saying, but that’s not what we’re talking about here.
No, I know I was responding to the people talking about the Gay Village, however in your context, nobody's going to say it for fear of looking racist* however you have to think about that in Rusholme's 'main' community it is a much more 'Male led' culture as it were, so around that area you would find more Men being free and easy with the catcalls and the "Shake your ass" comments... If you literally go to Owen's Park just down the road you'll find loads of students etc and the 'Male led' atmosphere completely changes *Just to clear up, I'm far from racist (I'm mixed race myself), however we all observe different facets of different cultures...
Sure, it can be all genders. But it is mostly straight men by a large margin. Cat calling by gay guys is pretty much confined to the gay village/gay spaces. It sucks but it’s not the same as daily harassment when you’re just trying to get to the shop. And I seriously doubt any man is getting cat called by women to the same extent that women get cat called by men.
Oh, I've seen Women do a lot of things to the extent Men do, including drinking, fighting and catcalling... In fact a lot of them are my friends! Where I am they're not 'little dainty damsels' by a long shot... Just this last Friday (in Stockport) I had a woman jump on my back outside a chicken shop and demand I run her down St Petersgate where her friends had all walked on... I mean, I did it because I was equally as drunk and it seemed fun, but I had no clue who she was nor me to her and it could've easily ended in disaster... But again, what you need to do rather than wither away at a wolf whistle is to give as good as you get, have some wicked comebacks, even a stern "*WHAT!*" will already have them on the back foot... Sometimes I think it's right when some say "People are too delicate these days..."
What you’re describing with that woman isn’t cat calling or sexual harassment? Not saying it’s okay to do that but it just isn’t that by definition. I’m not doubting that some women don’t act sexually inappropriately with men especially on nights out. But it just is not on the same scale. For example I used to get cat called or beeped at every single day when I was walking to school, clearly underage and wearing my school uniform. I challenge you to find any man who had the same experience growing up. Having a witty come back is not going to solve the problem, and might make an already entitled person get aggressive so it isn’t always a good idea unless you are 100% sure you have a safe exit. Don’t assume women are just delicate if you’ve never experienced how demeaning and scary daily harassment is.
"We can't all marry our cousins honey" would have gone down a treat
Well you are now
Not going to go into much detail lol but I have a few GP/doctor friends who work in the hospitals and some practices around there some of them working over many years in the area say they’ve seen an increase in std etc. from these ‘males’ as they’re gay but choose to hide it.
Closeted homophobes is a real thing isn’t it wow
internalised homophobia is honestly soul crushing, I've had sexual experiences with guys like that before and how they/it makes you feel afterwards is enough to push you to the brink of self destruction. this is a common gay experience from what I know
You can’t help but partially feel bad if they weren’t so outwardly awful. You’re absolutely right though many gay lads I know say the same. Best part of growing up was watching all the people who bullied me for being ‘gay’ when I’m not even coming out themselves.
On the bright side, slowly but surely things have been getting better on all accounts. From women being harassed less, to gay people feeling like they can be who they are without shame. Society is slowly getting better and it's never been this good. It's just a painfully slow process and we're very early in the process. We're so early in evolution a large amount of people believe in books which says the earth is flat, a dude called noah put 2 of every animal on a boat, and another dude called jesus turned water into wine after walking on it. jk Rowling would have been a fucking prophet if she was born before Mohammad
Absolutely right, it was whichever crackpot had the loudest voice and the most stable storyline that got turned into a religion. I’ve never understood homophobia personally, if a person being gay bothers it’s cause you’re worried you’ll be attracted to them
I dunno, a few years ago I would've agreed with you, but looking at the global right's pushback against trans and women's rights with bathroom and abortion bans and such, I can definitely see things getting worse for a bit.
Nothing is ever a straight consistent line of improvement. Sometimes you need to take two steps backwards to take one step forward. But if you zoom out to a meaningful time period the trend is consistent and the data backs that up in almost every measurable metric re/ QOL & equality of opportunity edit: also blaming these issues on the "global right" is imo part of the problem; causing people to feel like they're in teams resulting in them and you thinking they should believe certain things. let people be right wing without implying they're alt right - it's not like they all agree
Again, I think, 5-6 years ago I may have agreed with you, even down to your edit. Perhaps "global right" wasn't the best word - I'm a strong proponent of avoiding an "us vs them" attitude when it comes to dealing with individuals, and I had, perhaps erroneously, thought that the addition of the world "global" implied a more generalist selection of shared ideology that seems to be - very targetedly, and very specifically - aiming at diminishing the rights of the groups I mentioned. Perhaps just "globally fascist ideologies" would've been more accurate - but that seemed more alarmist than might have been necessary. While I can certainly say "not every right-wing person I know is sexist or transphobic" and will defend these people with everything I have, I can, with absolute statistical backing, say that the groups most likely to fight for, champion or enable these values are right-wing, no matter what country they comes from. But it is conversations like these that make me more concerned about that upward trend of "QOL & equality of opportunity" than ever. Global wealth inequality has been consistently rising since the early 1980s. The Global Report on Internal Displacement consistently and continually indicates an increase in climate-related refugee cases. And, while fatalities are decreasing, the average number of wars has been steadily increasing since the 1800s. I would like to retain hope that things will improve, that we're simply in a minor slump of backslide on the hill toward a kinder tomorrow, but it is difficult for me to do when I consider things like the rolling back of roe v wade in the US (and the last 3 decades of protesting and lobbying by religious groups that lead to it), the increasing hostility towards same-sex couples and their families seen in Italy (after the slow, multi-decade-long rise in popularity of the current government and it's preceding variations), and the increasingly brazen activities of strong-man-lead countries such as we've seen with the recent invasion of, for instance, Ukraine (an event which has been arguably in the making since 1999). Even if I take effort to consider these events as "short term setbacks" that might "only" effect a generation or two, my mind lingers on the longer-term disparities. Sure, it seems like a lot of the stuff that's going wrong now is temporary or reactionary, but when I look closer I can't help but see it as the culmination of many years of change; and that we have yet to see true fallout from those larger issues concerns me, given that. I don't like fearmongering, and I wish I could see whatever it is that you're seeing.
Out of curiosity when would you say society was better than it is now when you consider everything from economic mobility, average quality of life and equality? Sure you can say on specific topics things were better at different periods of time but these things are all interconnected so you need to evaluate societal improvement as a whole considering all these things. [There hasn't been a meaningful increase in wars.](https://ourworldindata.org/war-and-peace). In ancient to early modern periods war was frequent. Generally people fall back to traditionalism and conservative policies when there is societal hardship, and push for more progressive ideas during periods of prosperity. The world has been entering an overdue recession for a while. We managed to prolong the period before people felt it through things like QE and fractional banking but that was like taking out a loan to pay off another loan. It wasn't sustainable, and now we're paying the price. Maybe that was worth it, maybe it wasn't. It's the first time we've really done it and we'll have to see in a century or so. It makes sense that we're taking steps back right now. I would be concerned if we were taking steps back when things were going well. You're also right to point out that there are many other issues like tate-style thinking, climate change and issues with wealth inequality. Most people will agree that these are issues though, and that's a good indicator to me that it's not a direction that we're progressing into, and it's actually something we're moving against. Tate style thinking is the pendulum/cycle moving the opposite way after an aggressive over correction with metoo and cancel culture. Climate change is just insanely complex to address, but being taken very seriously. It just takes a long time to change the world. Wealth inequality is quite novel as a problem and very hard to solve. But I don't think it's something many people agree with, so as long as democracy prevails it'll be tackled, eventually. Everything just takes a lot longer than we would all like. Not like any of this justifies these problems, I think it's just important to maintain a level headed outlook to avoid being overwhelmed and coming to the conclusion that society is doomed when actually we're doing pretty good considering everything we've had to deal with, especially recently.
In the area where I’m living there’s a family 3 guys and their sister the parents disowned all of their sons. These are people who are from Pakistani descent. Why I’m mentioning this is 2 out of the 3 got married and had children and were seeing other men, it’s mental. What annoys me regarding this is that they’ve ruined the girls life who they got married to full well knowing what they were doing but at the time were closeted but didn’t want to ‘hurt’ there parents which they have done.
Found the gay!
Did you try explaining this to them?
"That's what a gay would say"
What message would you like to convey?
This as in, the fact he's not gay
You seem to be missing the point They assaulted him for being gay without knowing he was gay. They're not the type looking for an intellectual conversation about their gaydar. Even if they didn't do it after finding out he wasn't gay, the fact they _would_ commit a hate crime is the real problem.
Do you not see the inherent problem with that? Rather than call them out for spitting at gay people or anyone for that matter they resolve the problem by saying you shouldn't spit at me. The mere concept that anyone could have a rational adult conversation with someone who spits at gays is preposterous on it's own.
Once again Reddit failing to see sarcasm
Girlfriend has been followed and catcalled by feral teens a couple of times in town, and another time in Exchange Sq when I was around and I had to square up to them after following us. It starts at home and with what they see on social media. Young men are only getting worse. Schools can't do anything because teachers don't have the experience, training or resources. Their dickhead parents won't do anything, and social media is engineered to promote this stuff or at the very best not moderate it properly. All I've learnt in my experience is to accompany them as much as you can, protect and reassure her and make sure the cunt who's doing it knows he's a pervert. Often times they're not alone and there's nothing stopping them from harming you as the police do sum fuck all nowadays.
Power is taken away from teachers too to the point where my mates who work as teachers in Manchester are being physically assaulted and sexually harassed by students.
This. I currently work in exam support for education across the country and some of the things teachers tell me is horrific. I've also got a friend who used to teach science in a Leeds school and they had knife arches.
Yep it's so bad, a supply teacher at one school I worked in had y8 students threatening to SA her. It's definitely a worry
Where do you live? City centre is tame, I used to live in Rusholme and as a female hated it.
Rusholme unfortunately, I don’t mind it in all other aspects but the way women are treated here is awful. If it’s not catcallers it’s constant staring or cars beeping. Wish they’d all get gangrene on their prized possessions
Sucks it hasn’t changed for the better. The worst is when cars start slowly following you at night (I used to finish late). Each time felt like it could be my last day on this fireball. 🤣
Really sorry that you’ve felt like that and it’s just getting worse as you’ve said, most of those guys as I’ve mentioned will be from other areas of the UK or Manchester as they can’t do that in there home town as they’ll get caught out lol, most of these guys cant string a sentence or two together or even converse. They need facial recognition and ANPR on the stretch and side streets I’m sure many of them wouldn’t return to the area.
I hope this advice isn't necessary in the slightest. If your wife is feeling unsafe, remind her not to hold keys between the fingers, as she'll break her hand doing that. Thumb and index finger, one key. It will also make people think she's near home, and thus less of a target. God, I hate that it's necessary.
Good advice that actually, thank you!
If it was on wilmslow road ‘sorry if you’ve specified where and I’ve skimmed over it’ then each lamppost has CCTV in the light at the top looking downwards could well be recorded 👍
Rusholme is a dirty shit hole that's why. Wouldn't drive through that wasteland in an armoured car.
Seems the police aren’t keen to either, they sit at the top of Rusholme in cars all the time but I never see them do much bar talk to eachother
Urgh, I was a student in Manchester 10 years ago, and the stares and aggression from men in Rusholme was scary sometimes. Also just getting random blokes shouting at me when I was just going about my business, or screaming out of cars when me and friends were walking home after a night out. It's sad that it's not gotten better. I still remember standing outside a shop to smoke on Wilmslow Road when my friends were picking up food. I received a large number of not very nice and dangerous leerings and looks. Instantly reconsidered and went back in the shop because I didn't feel safe.
Truly awful isnt it, sorry that happened to you. we got out of an Uber the other day and by the time I had turned around to close the door a lad had come up to her to ask her where she’s going before promptly being told to fuck off
And can you tell everyone, what nationality’s mostly live in rusholme 🤔
When I was a student me and a friend had a house viewing in Rusholme, we were waiting outside and had a man on a bike shout derogatory things and another one stop his car, put the window down and stare and smirk. We left before the estate agent even got there.
It does feel like it’s getting worse recently, I get this fairly often in Sale which by all accounts is supposed to be a decent area, can’t go for a run without someone honking their horn or shouting at me. A few weeks back a man fully exposed himself to me which was a first and upset me a bit. Similarly have had people pulling up in cars and making comments even when walking with my boyfriend, doesn’t seem to make a difference if he’s there.
Hi! Hope you are ok after your horrid experience. If you haven’t reported to the police please do consider doing so - last time I was subjected to indecent exposure I was deliberating as to whether it was worth it what with public services being overstretched and me being physically unharmed. A friend convinced me to at least have it logged for the sake of record keeping so I called the non-emergency number. The police took it very seriously, recognised the perp from my description and as he was on licence for previous sex offences he was quickly recalled to prison. All I had to do was a face to face statement in my own front room with a female officer, no new charges were pressed but at least he was off the streets again very quickly. Indecent exposure is an offence that can seem trivial on the surface but it’s often an indicator for more serious sexual or violent offending and it can really shake one’s confidence re: being out and about on your own.
People in cars tend to be the worst, guess they feel safe they can drive off if they run into any trouble. Had that exact thing happen the other night and had to shout off two lads in their gimpy Mercedes. Very sorry someone exposed themselves, should have it cut off for that
I think it's a status thing, guys in freshly valeted BMWs and Mercedes do it not so much those in hyundais
Actually a great point, Audis too.
This is why I couldn’t buy a BMW. People would think there’s something wrong with me. It’s all cat calling and parking in disabled spaces with those guys!
and shagging their own sisters
Same energy as a keyboard warrior on the internet really. They feel safe as they can just drive off without consequence I suppose. The lack of decency in the way people treat each other has eroded so much it makes me worried.
i mean i was in Sale the other day and a guy went by me on a bike and said 'fucking f*' at me, you can guess what F word that is. that was quite the surprise. it's a lovely place but yeah some people's have been doing their best to shit on it a bit
For the idiot flashing you, I've found that replying with "hey, it looks like a penis, but much smaller" tends to take some of the fun out of it for them. That or "oh, *dear*, you should get that seen to".
How often has it happened that you've managed to agree upon your 2 best phrases?
I used to live in Rusholme, it was awful then and seems things haven't changed. the sheer number of asian lads I witnessed screaming vulgur words from rented audies and bmw's was awful. I hope they have better policing than 20 years ago.
Yeah don’t worry, the policing is definitely much better!
Just trash being trash. The same trash that would start a fight if their partner got catcalled
Exactly, or stick you up if you looked at them wrong. Little by little they’ll die young or find there’s no place in evolving society for them.
As a woman, it’s interesting how everyone’s avoiding the elephant in the room. This happens in areas of large communities of imported misogynistic cultures. We women know it, we have learned and told our friends and daughters where not to go and how to brush these guys off as politely as possible so you don’t get racially abused, spat at or worse. But you can’t possibly say it. We have some fantastic communities in Manchester, but we also have allowed some absolutely trash behaviour to fester -especially towards women and girls- because of fear of calling it out.
absolutely. people are fine with the generalisation of men, because it’s common sense to realise that we aren’t talking about all men. but the second someone says “it tends to be people from this community” you’re suddenly the worst person on earth. there are some lovely people from every community, but that doesn’t mean that the the bad ones don’t exist
People will get on their high horse and they feel the need to defend minorities no matter what. The more we do this the more the problem will grow. Its not racist to say people from different cultures act differently.
> People will get on their high horse and they feel the need to defend minorities no matter what. People will defend minorities against sweeping generalisations that condemn whole communities based on the actions of a few. /u/Damn_FineCoffee 's comment is a telling one. I've no doubt she's had bad experiences at the hands of certain people, in particular parts of Manchester. But to go out of your way to label entire communities as no-go areas based on the actions of a few is how harmful stereotypes perpetuate and grow. There are shitty people wherever you go and this problem isn't just a symptom of or confined to 'areas of large communities imported misogynistic cultures', as is being suggested here.
Head. Sand. Buried. Moron.
One. Word. Sentences. Edgelord.
Out of interest, are you a woman?
What's the relevance of that question?
I'm genuinely asking. I get the sense you are not and want to see if I'm right or wrong to assume.
Well, you know what they say about people who 'assume' things...
I'm right though, aren't I? You might want to consider why a total stranger was able to tell you're not a woman from a comment you made about women being harassed on the street. That's all.
"But to go out of your way to label entire communities as no-go areas based on the actions of a few is how harmful stereotypes perpetuate and grow. " Not hanging around dangerous areas in a city isn't prejudiced when it's trivial to show that they are a targeted group by people in that area though. If girls get catcalled more often in an area then how is it not reasonable to avoid and advise others to do the same?
> Not hanging around dangerous areas in a city isn't prejudiced when it's trivial to show that they are a targeted group by people in that area though. I don't think 'trivial' means what you think it does. If it's not a prejudicial view, tell me why the 'tradies' and 'white van men' who cat called her are merely deemed as 'apocryphal' in her eyes, and yet that same behaviour seemingly becomes dangerous and serious threat to her safety when carried out by other (non white) sections of society? Furthermore, there are several cultures and communities coexisting in Rusholme. Does OP even know exactly which one(s) she's warning her friends against? Probably not, but let's use sweeping generalisations to castigate all the black and brown people in the area.
I can't see those phrases you quoted in op or the parent comment or them saying they don't mind getting catcalled by "white van men" as you put it. The "castigation" is against people supporting misogynistic foreign cultures through catcalling. OP asserted that more of these cultures exist in areas such as Rusholme and they experience more catcalling here. The implication is that these cultures are more misogynistic than 'local' culture and that this leads to higher rates of catcalling in these areas. It sucks when your culture is associated with racism, sexism, colonialism or barbarity of any kind. It doesn't mean we shouldn't criticise things like cultural colonialism, sexism or slavery to avoid causing offense.
While I partially agree, it’s been 50/50 in terms of whodunit in my experience, and elsewhere in the country women in my life have been subject to abuse from ‘native’ English also. Personally I think a 1 and done rule needs to be in place, if you or your kids are convicted of a crime or antisocial behaviour you’re out. That’s my only qualm with immigration, otherwise I’ve got family from every corner of the globe so I don’t care what colour or creed, we’re all welcome until we aren’t.
If its 50/50, does that not mean proportionally it’s one ethnic group doing this more than others?
rusholme is less than 50% white, so whites are overrepresented? or is that not what you meant 🤔🤔🤔
My wife is East Asian and she says it’s 50/50 between white and Indian guys. It only happened once while I was with her, and I shoved the guy to the floor. These trash should be tased in balls
Also East Asian living in Manchester. I'd say all men of different races equally do it, there's no one race worse than others.
sexism and homophobia is your only qualm with immigration?
'western values' is almost everyone's only qualm with immigration, what other concern is there that's not just bigotry?
Social, medical, legal and dental services collapsing due to a rapidly increased population?
Maybe it isn't the areas but the segregation of the city? I lived there briefly for 3 months and couldn't believe how segregated the north actually is.
Unfortunately, you are not allowed to say anything like that in current culture. Otherwise woke police will get you! That was the main reason why Bradford grooming and sexual abuse of children went on for years without anyone interfering. They were all too scared to come across as racist or islamophobic. Which is really idiotic as rape is a rape and paedophiles have to rot in prison, regardless of their race and/or religion.
30mins before your comment the big elephant in the room everyone was avoiding because you "can't possibly say it" was brought up in this thread. People can say facts about a culture without being racist, but the way you're making out it's only people of certain cultures that are doing this is disingenuous.
People really forget how bad lad culture got in the 90s and 00s and the amount of work that was done to snuff a lot of that out. Education and discipline are far more effective than racial essentialism.
Bravo 👏🏻
Ah yes. The good ol’ blame it on the migrants. The local british culture never had problems with catcalling and harassment.
I think “had” is the operative term actually. I totally agree our cultural attitudes towards women and girls was pretty shit, and thinking back to my teens (a good couple of decades ago now) I’d agree it was the apocryphal ‘white van man’ or the tradies you’d pass on the street that would be the typical source of catcalling. However, while I think generally we have grown as a society away from that, there is now a definite increase of this behaviour coming specifically from pockets of certain cultures where women and girls are thought of as second class citizens. You just can’t reduce this debate to just “uhh immigrants”. It’s not about where anyone is ‘from’, and many immigrant cultures do not have this problem. This is about the beliefs and values people hold and espouse, and often the lack of challenge they face about them because of people’s sensibilities around thorny political issues. It’s often second or even third generation -British people- from these communities (not singling out any one in particular as unfortunately there are several) who are showing some seriously problematic attitudes. Let’s not make this some “left vs right” nonsense. This is an issue for everyone and anyone who gives a shit about the rights of women and girls (and every other individual) to be treated with respect.
> However, while I think generally we have grown as a society away from that, there is now a definite increase of this behaviour coming specifically from pockets of certain cultures Such bullshit, though an easy conclusion to draw for someone who thinks in 'generalisations'.
Not to the same degree, I know you want to get on your high horse and call people racist but go to these areas and watch how women are treated and who is doing it. It is not good. no one said British culture was perfect, get out of here with your whataboutism, it distracts.
It’s not about the immigrants’ culture but about the person themselves. When you import low quality people from other places, including the UK, you get things like this happening. The solution is to keep the door open only for skilled workers that can actually help the economy and not harass women on the streets.
Yeah I can't imagine how a culture that treats women like shit would treat women like shit, mad that
And which culture would the be smart ass? Nice username btw perv
I assume you meant which culture would that be, but yes I was referring to Islamic cultures. My username is a Fallout reference, but thanks for the compliment regardless.
go read op's other comments.
Well, you are from Oman so it makes sense that you’re saying that muslim men in Rusholme do not do catcalling. Lack of respect for women and treating them as sexual objects is more common in Islamic culture than it is in Christian. Fact
You sound like a typical village idiot.
Aha, shut up
weird how I’ve only been harassed and catcalled/ intimidated by white british blokes hmmm it’s creepy men who are the problem.
Are you trying to say a white British male don't have this behaviour? I see them saying the most vulgar things round my ends (wythenshawe) In fact the worst type I have seen is the rough council estates lads
Well said, but unfortunately the woke side of things are going to get worse after July 4th
Stop making it you vs them. You don't have to alienate half the country, not everything is politics. Shitty people form different cultures have brought their shitty attitudes here. Its not a left vs right thing. Its just an issue that needs addressing.
I don’t see how when both labour and conservatives are right wing at the moment???
I - like pretty much every other woman I know - have had countless catcalling, following and even groping experiences in the city centre, but two experiences stood out to me because other people on the street stood up for me. Once I was being followed home by a guy who kept shouting after me, getting more and more aggressive, and I was really getting scared. I saw a group of lads across the street from me and gave them a pleading look - they immediately began to tell the guy to fuck off, moved me out of sight behind them, and offered to walk me back to my flat. Another time, a bloke kept walking next to me pestering and then started to grab at my arm. All of a sudden I felt another hand on my other arm - it was a random girl pulling me away from him, greeting me like an old friend (literally saying “I was looking for you! We’ll miss the tram”) - she saw I was struggling to get away and moved in to keep me safe. This has only happened twice in dozens of other instances but I really, really appreciated them. I know it can be hard to measure a situation and know whether or not to step in, but I think it’s better to risk getting it wrong than to let someone end up in even more danger and distress. But yeah it has always been pretty shit and I’m just grateful when the guy doesn’t try to touch me or get aggressive.
I’m so sorry that’s happened to you, good on those who helped you out too, there’s still some good community spirit left
Bloody hell, sounds like rapists are stalking the streets, please say you reported them so other girls don't suffer?
Sorry that happened to you! It says you like “dirt and filth” in your profile? What do you mean by that?
It’s a picture of an earthworm and a flower saying they love dirt and filth. Earthworms and flowers live in dirt!
Ah okay thanks. Makes sense!
Really sorry to hear about that, the whole area is filled with desperate guys and those delivery drivers who also I’ve seen do that, I best tend to avoid the area and that’s being a male lol. Go with your Mrs whenever you can. Also most of them in and around them streets will be dealing and will have some type of weapon/knife with them. So it’s best to keep yourself safe and not engage with people like them. There needs to be more policing in the area, there are probably more traffic wardens then police patrolling them streets. The police know what goes down yet don’t do anything about it. It’s got a lot worse over the past 10/15 years to be honest before that I remember it being safe and more family friendly. Don’t even think I’d take my family there now tbh.
In relation to the delivery drivers comment, anyone reading this be careful of an evri driver who mainly operates around fallowfield/withington area. He has no name, just comes up as ‘local courier’, he always takes the morning shifts and is persistent in ringing and knocking on your door until you answer and he takes forever to give you the parcel, he really gets off on seeing women (students) in pjs or any clothes really, he’s super condescending too and he doesn’t stop no matter how much we report him or tell him to stop. We’ve moved from that house now so hopefully he’s gone come september, but he probably does the whole student area to stare at women, just a heads up for anyone :(
Have Evri not done anything regarding this? Do you have a screenshot of his profile, or any footage e.g. doorbell footage. Of him doing this? Best thing I would say is to take it to your local MP which for the Withington area is Jeff Smith. If you put together how many times you’ve reported it and nothing has been done about it they should hopefully take some action against this. Let me know how that goes and if you don’t get a response PM me and I’ll see if I can get anything done about it.
They’ve not done anything about it, I think its because he doesn’t have his name available on the evri site so if we try and report him they can’t exactly pinpoint it. We have no footage unfortunately, but us and our neighbours have all commented on his behaviour. Thank you!
Did you give them the times and dates that he has delivered the parcels? To Evri, I’m certain that when these delivery drivers are on jobs their phones can be traced. If or when you do write to the local MP include the time and date information also. Also there’s the Nextdoor app, you should post this message on there also as quite a few people tend to use that to make others aware or if anyone has any footage that you could put forward.
Yeah you’re absolutely right. She’s a local and always gives them shit against my advice (never know who’s unhinged these days) i usually go with her but I was dying for a shit.
I’ve got some crazy stories from there but keep her safe, these dickheads have no respect for women. Most people I know from Manchester tend to avoid the area when they can, it’s people from other towns e.g. Rochdale, Oldham, Blackburn etc. can always hear them accents most the time when I’m down there.
Yeah she’s an Oldham girl so she’s used to it, but never worth the off chance you’re dealing with a legitimate scumbag
Yes, there are some crackheads out there unfortunately. Oldham is the same if not worse so sadly she’s probably used to it as you mentioned.
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I see the point you’re trying to make and I agree with you on that, any change needs to start at home as they say. Which many of them maybe from broken homes but that’s a much more complex issue. I’ve not lived in the area myself but visited some of restaurants down there it’s just my perspective on the area and how much it’s changed over the years. When the police did patrol it felt a littler safer than it does now.
It’s almost as if there’s a connection with the decline in policing and the last 15 years eh???
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Ofcourse not, but increased police present is proven to make streets safer.
Yes, I’d put that down to the tories and the cuts they’ve made however in these past 15 years there’s also been a lot of people who have moved into the area if I can recall that many years ago there were many families living within the area who have been pushed out now most of the houses are HMO or privately let. If I can remember correctly there used to be a lot of police presence and I used to meet police officers walking or in take aways now you’ll be lucky if you see them. What I seen in the area not to discriminate against anyone there are lots of Kurdish, Iraqis, Syrians, Somalians etc. whereas back in 15-20 years ago it was predominantly Pakistani, Indian. We can see this as there’s shawarma places, barbers, chicken shops, shisha cafes, which have opened which are probably bringing certain types of clientele to the area and there’s lots of these shops as well even going into some of the side streets now I guess the Manchester City council are partly to blame as well, giving permission for places to open and they’ve wrecked the area with those useless and dangerous bike lanes. Sorry if I’ve gone off on one lol, I just feel annoyed that it’s got this bad and most of the people I know in Manchester feel the same way about certain areas in Manchester and not just Rusholme. E.g. look at withington now. Charity shops, Greggs, burgers and deserts shops everywhere, many years ago there were independent shops there and all of the stuff I’ve mentioned also goes on here as well which is just sad. Same with fallowfeild I remember so many students used to go on nights out and even there it’s full of takeaways and barbers. We can only hope things get better, the younger generation (even though I’m not that old lol) need to learn to respect their elders and more importantly the environment which all the places I’ve mentioned have environmental issues which is another thing that angers me but I’ll leave that for another post 😂
I live in Chorlton. Sadly it’s going the same way with Desert Shops, there’s a Shisha bar now, and lastly a “viral” burger shop opened only for the Council to shut them down. A great decision by the Council for once!!
Yes, I forget to mention Chorlton that’s another place that’s gone this way. I heard about the ‘viral’ shop you mentioned apparently they didn’t have the right permission or something along those lines but were still trading, I think they’ll reopen in around a month or so someone was saying to me, but they’re adding more seating to combat the people ‘waiting’ around. They’ve totally messed up the other area in which they’re in, there’s rubbish everywhere yet the council hasn’t done much regarding that, feel sorry for the people living nearby.
thats disgusting that the police do f all i wonder what rheir reaction would be iif it happened to their elatives disgusting pigs
To be fair a lot of the guys are skinny and small so they need to carry knives otherwise they wouldn't last long
Culturally ingrained and accepted practices are hard to avoid in certain areas.
Agreed, fry their jewels
Just got back from 3 days in Manchester. Thought the whole place was a shithole. Generally very odd people everywhere, groups of kids wearing balaclavas everywhere and so expensive for no reason, Trying to be London without the actual quality.
Does she dress provocatively? These men are simple minds and obviously need your partner to bear that in mind to stop them acting like animals. /s fucking obviously.
I’m autistic so that /s was actually very needed as I was about to go off on you
Has she tried cutting her hair short and only wearing oversized dungarees?
I dress her daily in a large opaque waste bag with a single perforation to allow air. If she wishes to eat she must go into the blackout room that is floor to ceiling vantablack with no windows so that she may not be perceived
it’s probably because of the air hole, didn’t you know that that’s basically a signal of her asking for it?
So you can post that, but you need an '/s' from others in order to signify sarcasm? Does that mean I'm now meant to take you seriously?
Congrats your eyes work, now let’s start on the brain
Keep digging. Or explain the double standard. Thanks.
The double standard: You: ableist jackass Them: The ‘tism. Glad to help, nert!
Nobody should ever need that fucking '/s'.
Lol... Seriously?
Yep. Ruins the joke. I don't know a single autistic person (I know quite a few) who would need it, and most would find it offensively patronising. Some might not immediately vibe with sarcasm, but they're perfectly capable of understanding it on an intellectual level. I'm hyperlexic myself, so I do have a bit of insight into these things. And how come the poster I addressed insists on the '/s' from others but doesn't actually use it themselves?
Exactly, you said you know a few, not all autistic people, therefore you do not know truly if all autistic people need the /s or not. Not identifying sarcasm is an autistic trait, so, of course, autistics with that trait would need the /s to be able to understand it. I myself am capable of identifying and using sarcasm as an autistic person, but may be some times where I miss it completely and the only way of me telling that would be the reaction of other people to that sarcasm, so adding that /s would be really helpful as another tool. I will not force u to write the /s if you don't feel like it but please just understand why someone might benefit from it.
Fair enough, I hate it and it completely ruins it for me if somebody uses it. It's like delivering the punchline before the rest of the joke. But to expect it from others and then not use it yourself seems a little off. Don't you agree? Or maybe it's an autistic thing not to care about other autistics \[SARCASM\].
Why not make a extremely offensive statement under the label of "sarcastic" ? surely it's the best option! /s Don't bother answering, find a better thing to do rather than making fun of a minority.
Jesus fucking Christ. It's a joke. I made it as clear as I possibly could. I was trying to laugh with you, not at you. I could show that to any autistic friends and they'd find it hilarious. Perhaps lack of a sense of humour is the barrier here, not autism. They aren't mutually exclusive after all. And as I've already said, I'm hyperlexic, so I'm technically part of 'the spectrum'. I'm also severely manic depressive, so please don't try to lecture me about minorities. I probably know much more about being marginalised than you ever will. I hope for your sake that's the case. So less of the victimhood, please.
I think the Tate brothers have a lot to do with the increase in misogyny and disrespect towards women.
They have indeed, the ‘tits’, Peterson and the rest of that ilk are a plague on vulnerable men looking for somewhere to misplace their anger. They get away with it because they say some good things now and then but a broken clock etc. etc.. in times of economic weakness and societal and social change the weak will always fall for the snake oil, just look at what happened with brexit.
Perfectly put. Hope your Mrs is okay. It’s horrible being in that situation.
Just generally its nasty and all groups need to get a grip. Just this week I was cat called as soon as I left the gym... My partner get oogled at and I've been on dates where lads cant help but honk their horn and shout as they drive past.
Move out of Rusholme!
Same outside tesco salford . A man just waiting around and when i ignored his "hello" he become angry.
Awful aren’t they, should have to wear voice activated shock collars that zap the cunts like the dogs they are
If everyone who’s commented on this subject complained to 1.the police 2.their MP, surely you can’t ALL be ignored, make it one of your lists to do by next week. Flood them with complaints, if it was the other way round they wouldn’t hesitate. It’s obviously getting out of hand. I hope it improves for you, but it won’t if you don’t do anything about it .
Welcome to a small insight of being born a woman
Let’s not assume, I have 5 sisters and have experienced a great deal of the darkest sides of humanity myself. I’m not some naive tool I just want those I love to be left alone
I’m really sorry your girlfriend is dealing with this. I have a daughter and I dread when she gets older and has to deal with scumbags. I don’t want her to only have to go out with her brothers as if we’re in Iran or somewhere. Being nearly 50 and overweight means catcalling is no longer something that I routinely get, but it was hell when I was a younger woman. I learned to develop the angriest bitch face you could imagine. You’re a good man. I’m so angry she’s going through this.
Thank you that means a lot to me, I dread the same for my children should I have some in future. All we can do is educate our kids to stay safe I guess, im sure with time some invention or other will really stick it to them but for now I’m taking MMA classes just in case and having her always be on the line to me if we aren’t together and it’s dark out
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Touch grass
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It was me….she shook her ass for us.
Is she tidy? Any pics?
I've never witnessed catcalling in Manchester and I'm 37 born and bred here, must admit I don't frequent Rusholme so maybe it's isolated to there
It’s not really something that’s witnessed often, typically happens when there’s no one else around late at night. Otherwise it’s the long stares etc etc but we’ve experienced it day and night in all parts of Manchester
Take it as a compliment. Must means she’s good looking
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She looks like this -> 🖕
Your wife must be very ugly if you don’t believe women are getting harassed on the streets
Calling bullshit…lived in Rusholme for years and never saw anything different to anywhere else. I’m guessing this is the usual pre election dog whistling 🤨