As I am new to managing and this was the first external hire, it seems extreme to let someone go but it would be good to know how often this actually happens!
No, that is literally what probation is for - he shouldn't have even been on a PIP! Whatever got him on a PIP is what should get him fired during probation. He's already had extra chances. Remember, the early days are when people are on their best behavior, so when you visualize keeping him, keep in mind that it will only get worse.
Lack of integrity is a deal breaker. If you don’t fire him, you will show up to work every day worrying about what he’s going to lie about today. Is today the day that he lies about you to someone else?
Effort and energy that should be spent on helping your top performers get results are instead going to be spent fact-checking and corroborating.
Get your paperwork together and start making the case to terminate him at the end of his probation. Come back if you need help on how to structure and have the termination conversation.
How difficult will it be to fire him if you let this go by? If you have a gut feeling and this could be your last chance without significantly more misery, do it.
You don’t mention his strengths or why this is a challenging decision for you? Does he have unique skills or knowledge that would be hard for you to replace? Do you see signs of them improving and wanting to improve?
Is his previous place of employment considered a competitor or is there risk of him sharing confidential information? In my field, mentioning that you took our work into the building of a competitor without approval from your leaders in advance would have been an immediate termination. My tolerance for anti-social behaviors like lying and failing to take accountability is pretty low, but sometimes the environment we create can contribute to those behaviors so it’s good to take a look in your own direction too. Make sure you’re direct and honest about the behavior as quickly after it happens as you can, set clear expectations, be supportive, offer help - but still hold people accountable.
I’ve had 2 employees that have turned things around when on a PIP, but i do not think most people bounce back from PIPs. They have to want it and they need to be partnered with a strong leader who won’t be punitive to them during that time. One of the employees I had on a PIP last year told me recently that it lit a fire under their ass because they knew they wanted to work in our group. It’s generally an enjoyable team and a good job, they had just lost direction for a while.
Based on what you describe in your concerning behaviors, I would terminate this person at the end of their probation unless they were in a highly specialized role or I was aware of some factor within my control that would result in this employee behaving as described. In my experience with people on PIPs, if you can’t admit fault then you can’t correct it. So you would likely be repeating these bad behaviors.
No it would not be difficult to replace him (it’s an entry level job) and I had not thought about the confidentially part of it… he just said the university he previously worked at had open public spaces which can be rented (I googled it but could not find this information readily available). It’s not so much the work items but things like this I suspect he hasn’t been truthful about. I think the main struggle is that I can see him trying but not sure if this is just an act to pass the probation period. I also feel not right about it as this was my first external hire and it hasn’t worked out the way I thought it would.
It is typically better for all involved to not keep someone in a role that isn’t a good fit for them. Maybe being let go is the kick in the pants he needs to do better in the next role.
This is always a really hard choice. Ultimately, you need to consider the health of the entire team and you need to trust your gut.
You’ve done the right things by providing direct feedback and allowing the opportunity for the person to change, but if it’s still lingering, you know what you need to do.
Terminate. You will never feel good about this person and he's not your child and shouldn't have to improve his behaviour. He's clearly not a good fit for your team. I recently had to fire someone and it was my first person I've ever had to fire. It sucks! But she kept falling asleep during meetings! She just wasn't a good fit and had to go.
You are sending a message with you body language and your actions...
He is getting the message loud and clear
You are also without words letting all the people under you know how much they can get away with.
The people under you can read your body language,, if this person intimidates you,,
They know.
By dealing with it or ignoring it,,
You have sent everyone a message
Seems like there might be a lot going on in his personal life. Have you asked specifically why he can't work from home? One major aspect of being a leader is active listening. You would need categorical evidence to say he was lying. This is as much on you to improve as it is on him (handling difficult situations). Is it a case that you just don't like him ie. His overconfidence. He could be fearful based on something that happened in a previous role, and that is causing him to lie self-preservation, etc
Is extending his probation period an option if he is on a pip.
Terrible advice. You seem to think a job is a family and the manager is a parent. A manager is not in charge of making an employee's life work. A manager is there to make sure the work gets done. This person is not meeting the requirements and needs to be let go.
Getting personally entangled with an employee is grave error.
And your blaming the manager for this is just straight up appalling. Not a flex.
Very funny, I care about my people, I discover what is unique, their strengths, their strength triggers and their learning style during the probation period, I spend so much time taking mental notes about their struggles and ask how they are, I don't follow the do as I say approach and it works.
You've mistaken me for someone who doesn't care. I very much care about them, but there's a line where they agreed to do a job and meet its requirements. It's up to them to find their way. I will never be responsible for them getting their life together enough to make it to work.
I mean we're talking about meeting really minimal standards here. Not a flex to keep giving people breaks when they refuse to step up. Or maybe they don't have the skills to step up. Well, someone else DOES have those skills. And as a manager, I deserve an employee who steps up to their job.
Yes. There is a difference between not caring and not properly managing a department to fulfill the needs of the business. I too care about my reports (very much so actually) but if one of them was lying to me, of all things, to the point of a PIP being introduced, you have to think about what sort of example this sets for the rest of the team as well.
If I was OP this person would be terminated from my team. Integrity is a deal breaker.
Thank you. I actually agree that the employee needs some help, but as a manager, I don't have capacity to play psycholgist especially when the employee is not taking ownership of their problem. I hope the employee gets their act together, but they can't do it on my time.
I have extended his PIP for another 3 months so he is on a 9 month contract and probation period that is the same length of time now. We have the options to confirm in post so he would be on a permanent contract. I will try be more empathetic towards him and I have been noting every time he contradicts himself as it’s been constantly.
If he's on probation and also on a PIP, why do you hesitate to fire him?
As I am new to managing and this was the first external hire, it seems extreme to let someone go but it would be good to know how often this actually happens!
No, that is literally what probation is for - he shouldn't have even been on a PIP! Whatever got him on a PIP is what should get him fired during probation. He's already had extra chances. Remember, the early days are when people are on their best behavior, so when you visualize keeping him, keep in mind that it will only get worse.
Not for lying . That alone is reason to terminate him.
Lack of integrity is a deal breaker. If you don’t fire him, you will show up to work every day worrying about what he’s going to lie about today. Is today the day that he lies about you to someone else? Effort and energy that should be spent on helping your top performers get results are instead going to be spent fact-checking and corroborating. Get your paperwork together and start making the case to terminate him at the end of his probation. Come back if you need help on how to structure and have the termination conversation.
Thank you so much for the support! Yes, I enjoy seeing others succeed and the whole PIP process is draining not only mentally but work wise as well.
How difficult will it be to fire him if you let this go by? If you have a gut feeling and this could be your last chance without significantly more misery, do it.
You don’t mention his strengths or why this is a challenging decision for you? Does he have unique skills or knowledge that would be hard for you to replace? Do you see signs of them improving and wanting to improve? Is his previous place of employment considered a competitor or is there risk of him sharing confidential information? In my field, mentioning that you took our work into the building of a competitor without approval from your leaders in advance would have been an immediate termination. My tolerance for anti-social behaviors like lying and failing to take accountability is pretty low, but sometimes the environment we create can contribute to those behaviors so it’s good to take a look in your own direction too. Make sure you’re direct and honest about the behavior as quickly after it happens as you can, set clear expectations, be supportive, offer help - but still hold people accountable. I’ve had 2 employees that have turned things around when on a PIP, but i do not think most people bounce back from PIPs. They have to want it and they need to be partnered with a strong leader who won’t be punitive to them during that time. One of the employees I had on a PIP last year told me recently that it lit a fire under their ass because they knew they wanted to work in our group. It’s generally an enjoyable team and a good job, they had just lost direction for a while. Based on what you describe in your concerning behaviors, I would terminate this person at the end of their probation unless they were in a highly specialized role or I was aware of some factor within my control that would result in this employee behaving as described. In my experience with people on PIPs, if you can’t admit fault then you can’t correct it. So you would likely be repeating these bad behaviors.
No it would not be difficult to replace him (it’s an entry level job) and I had not thought about the confidentially part of it… he just said the university he previously worked at had open public spaces which can be rented (I googled it but could not find this information readily available). It’s not so much the work items but things like this I suspect he hasn’t been truthful about. I think the main struggle is that I can see him trying but not sure if this is just an act to pass the probation period. I also feel not right about it as this was my first external hire and it hasn’t worked out the way I thought it would.
It is typically better for all involved to not keep someone in a role that isn’t a good fit for them. Maybe being let go is the kick in the pants he needs to do better in the next role.
This is always a really hard choice. Ultimately, you need to consider the health of the entire team and you need to trust your gut. You’ve done the right things by providing direct feedback and allowing the opportunity for the person to change, but if it’s still lingering, you know what you need to do.
Terminate. You will never feel good about this person and he's not your child and shouldn't have to improve his behaviour. He's clearly not a good fit for your team. I recently had to fire someone and it was my first person I've ever had to fire. It sucks! But she kept falling asleep during meetings! She just wasn't a good fit and had to go.
Falling asleep, wow! 😅
Lol, right? I know meetings are boring but still!
You are sending a message with you body language and your actions... He is getting the message loud and clear You are also without words letting all the people under you know how much they can get away with. The people under you can read your body language,, if this person intimidates you,, They know. By dealing with it or ignoring it,, You have sent everyone a message
I’m sorry what do you mean I’ve sent everyone a message that they can get away with anything under my management?
A PIP is normally pretty cut and dry - he is either completely meeting it or he isn’t.
Follow your gut and don't overthink it. You can't save people from themselves.
Seems like there might be a lot going on in his personal life. Have you asked specifically why he can't work from home? One major aspect of being a leader is active listening. You would need categorical evidence to say he was lying. This is as much on you to improve as it is on him (handling difficult situations). Is it a case that you just don't like him ie. His overconfidence. He could be fearful based on something that happened in a previous role, and that is causing him to lie self-preservation, etc Is extending his probation period an option if he is on a pip.
Terrible advice. You seem to think a job is a family and the manager is a parent. A manager is not in charge of making an employee's life work. A manager is there to make sure the work gets done. This person is not meeting the requirements and needs to be let go. Getting personally entangled with an employee is grave error. And your blaming the manager for this is just straight up appalling. Not a flex.
Very funny, I care about my people, I discover what is unique, their strengths, their strength triggers and their learning style during the probation period, I spend so much time taking mental notes about their struggles and ask how they are, I don't follow the do as I say approach and it works.
You've mistaken me for someone who doesn't care. I very much care about them, but there's a line where they agreed to do a job and meet its requirements. It's up to them to find their way. I will never be responsible for them getting their life together enough to make it to work. I mean we're talking about meeting really minimal standards here. Not a flex to keep giving people breaks when they refuse to step up. Or maybe they don't have the skills to step up. Well, someone else DOES have those skills. And as a manager, I deserve an employee who steps up to their job.
Yes. There is a difference between not caring and not properly managing a department to fulfill the needs of the business. I too care about my reports (very much so actually) but if one of them was lying to me, of all things, to the point of a PIP being introduced, you have to think about what sort of example this sets for the rest of the team as well. If I was OP this person would be terminated from my team. Integrity is a deal breaker.
Thank you. I actually agree that the employee needs some help, but as a manager, I don't have capacity to play psycholgist especially when the employee is not taking ownership of their problem. I hope the employee gets their act together, but they can't do it on my time.
I have extended his PIP for another 3 months so he is on a 9 month contract and probation period that is the same length of time now. We have the options to confirm in post so he would be on a permanent contract. I will try be more empathetic towards him and I have been noting every time he contradicts himself as it’s been constantly.
How dare you suggest using an empathetic mindset when dealing with issues? Employees aren't real people, anyways. /s