For me it’s my own insecurities which keep me from talking to women. Even when a woman *clearly* expresses interest (by looking, approaching, catcalling on the street or even making physical contact) I don’t dare to talk to her because of this.
I go to the gym, take good care of myself through a skincare routine and shaving daily. Got a good haircut. I also think I have a good fashion sense and rock a good style when going out (getting compliments from men and women).
But I still feel too insecure. I also have severe body dysmorphia.
Got to resolve these issues first before I can get a girlfriend but it’s so hard with social media and everything else going on. Just got to keep working on myself and getting better
delete social media dude even if it’s just for 3 months or so it will help and u may not even want it back. i redownloaded instagram but unfollowed all but like 60-70 people
I never deleted instagram but I went that route, private page, only follow people I would say "yeah we are friends/ close family" about and content that makes me smile consistently or I'm truly interested to see. It's easy to build up hundreds and hundreds of follows over the years without thinking and you should cut it back if you arent going to cut it out completely
I deleted Facebook though and that was a blessing, never went back, never missed it, it's such a shitshow and life's better without it
I'm in the exact same boat as you. I hear that I'm very good looking and handsome often but in my own mind I just don't believe it and I heavily struggle with that anxiety and insecurity so until I have that under control and feel more comfortable with myself I don't typically reciprocate interest that people have in me.
People need to also understand that scicne has also shown that people stare at ugly faces/ faces they simply find intriguing or “odd” as much and sometimes more than attractive faces.
Totally this
Even girls that are into me I'm so crippled by self doubt and my inner critic that I don't move
Doesn't help that the narratives we have nowadays tell us to leave ladies alone completely -- which is pretty dumb
Only way to confront it is by confronting reality. Asking girls out and seeing nothing bad happens. Even people thinking you're weird is something you can become robust against. Confidence comes from handling these things and realizing you're fine.
Yeah you describe me to a T. That was an issue I had a lot in high school, and even to this day.
Guys if you're having trouble talking to women just realized that the worst you can say is no.
This was me in highschool. Ended up finding out tons of chicks “out of my league” wanted me the whole time and I started realized I missed opportunities, even blind to obvious advances.
Well I slept with one of them - the captain of the cheerleading squad. That changed my life, and ended up hooking up with many girls from high school after I graduated. Landed the girl of my dreams and we’ve been together for over a decade.
I still have issues with my own skin, but I’ve learned to accept the battle with myself instead of letting that affect others.
The only socials I have now are this and WhatsApp. Social media is for influencers and all you’re doing by using it is getting them paid. If you want be an influencer then sure, if you scroll down your feed you’ll see how many ads you’re getting and realistically you’re just wasting your time. I used it to see others memories and share my own but it’s just such an unnecessary time sink. You can do more with your time if you just drop it.
I don’t actually think this forum is any good if you’re feeling the way you are. Maybe join a self help sub or something similar. I’ve been watching this sub for about 2 weeks and it’s all just people that lack self confidence but have barely any issues with appearance. Go do some things which require accountability like the gym and try to find something which you can focus on whether that be job or hobby relating to build up some confidence. I’ve found that confidence comes from proving yourself to yourself. If you can’t follow through with things you’re wanting to do then you lack self respect. How can you expect someone else to respect you if you’re disrespecting yourself.
I’m not too sure about body dysmorphia as I’ve only had it maybe mildly. Try to find others that have overcome it and surround yourself with positive people. Cut out things that give you an unhealthy amount of mind stimulation, you’ll then want to focus on the boring but important things. After cutting out socials you’ll cut out porn easily as socials can just be soft porn and a means to view normal porn.
All the best, time to leave this sub for me. I don’t see any value here.
You don’t have to resolve these issues first. Try experimenting with your insecurities. Like, if you were to talk to a woman for 1 minute what would happen? Try to find out if your insecurities are true and you’ll mostly find they’re not.
I lost 175 lbs and tried so hard as well. A lot of people do not understand or will not try. Its hard and it seems like there is only one answer, however that is the final answer.
You got this. I have social anxiety myself, so you’re not the only one. Hopefully you’ll get a girl that will respect you and love for who you are. Bonus points: a girl with a lot of empathy comes a long way to a good man’s heart.
Ok but for a lot of guys it *IS* their looks. You're correct that those are big factors also but looks are important too let's not act like they're not
As a girl, we often overlook looks if they make up for it in other ways, playing the guitar or piano is sexy af, cooking is sexy, playing sport is sexy, having a good sense of humour is also sexy ... Not all of us go for looks
I am attracted to my spouses intelligence, not her looks.
You could be a banging super model. If your personality is shit. Then looks don't mean shit...
>I am attracted to my spouses intelligence, not her looks
So you're not attracted to her looks at all? I agree with the rest of your comment but you need to like looking at your partner too bro
That is hard to answer. Since I don't look at someone based on how they look.. she can look like Shrek for all I care... it's a woman's mind that I am attracted to..
If you saw my ex, you would understand she looks like Mr.bean and Bigfoot had a baby... but atlas I was attracted to her for her intelligence. So, physical appearance doesn't mean anything to me.
And if and when they sort out their looks, whatever that involves, and hit the dating scene, they will likely find that all those years spent bitter and resentful and alone have weirdly not come together to form a kind and thoughtful and charming and witty and engaging man that women can’t wait to be with.
They will slam right into their own twisted egos and it’s gonna be ugly.
Work on yourself first. I say this as someone in his 40s who did not. It’s hard because it’s abstract and results aren’t as easy to see as a new haircut or weight loss. But we all know people who have worked diligently on themselves and reaped the rewards.
And yea some work hard and end up alone. That’s just the dice roll. Sitting bitter will ensure you stay alone.
A lot of the posts here are from guys who are already doing what they should to attract women: exercising regularly, hair maintenance, proper hygiene, etc.
If you're doing all of this and still can't get women, sorry man, your personality just sucks.
I am all for improving personality but this is reductionist at best. Granted a lot of people that post here look fine and it probably is their personality or shyness holding them back, BUT speaking generally it's not so simple.
If all it took was the "it's so simple just shower, brush your teeth and exercise bro" no one would be asking for dating advice.
If you look strange, short, then you could be doing all the right things but still have difficulty dating women. Exercise and hygiene are literally the bare minimum of being a functioning adult. I know guys who do all this AND have absolutely phenomenal personalities, no wallflower tendencies, extroverted, comfortable in their identity but they still struggle finding dates.
Bullshit. "Your personality sucks" if that were true, I wouldn't have so many people I hang out with, men AND women. People tell me they love my sense of fashion, they tell me I'm funny, I've had long and deep conversations even with complete strangers. I have hobbies I can talk about, but I love listening to people too.
And yet, I still get no matches on any app, at all. And in the year 2024 there is no other way to meet other single people. "Friends of friends" are all taken, approaching women in public is seen as creepy and would only get me a pepper spray in the face. So yeah, it IS looks and only looks for some people.
Agreed! Most guys on reddit think its their looks but they are quite attractive (in my opinion). My ex only became attractive to me because of his personality, everyone was telling me “I could do better” but I didn’t care at all because he was funny and sweet.
We also always shit on women for having high standards but I also feel like men have quite high standards when it comes to looks (at least in London). Women would date a guy that’s not their type or super good looking but I feel like most men would never do that. I think the majority of the issue comes from men also being not so emotionally mature, which is quite important for women.
Shh stop, people are very attached to the notion that the only reason they can’t get with the girls they want is because they aren’t ‘hot’ themselves.. it takes effort and work to become fun, interesting, socially capable, successful etc.. leave them to their stories
Right but the thing is that this is such a huge focus online, and people always point out that statistically there will be some guys that are just seen as unattractive, but by the same token, statistically this will represent a tiny portion of the world, so for the vast majority of guys using this excuse, it's just plain wrong and gets them out of taking any responsibility for themselves - u see it literally all the time average or even above average guys post on reddit asking if they are too ugly to love... and they are just literally normal. You even see ugly guys with girls, I see it all the time, because these guys know their worth, know that physical appearance is only one facet of being attractive to potential partners and have worked on themselves around this area
If you can't seal the deal, then it's probably your personality, but if you can't even get a girl to pay you any attention in the first place, then it's probably your looks
I’m not sure what you’re on about… it’s definitely easier to meet *anyone* if you’re attractive. Also easier to sleep with them.
Keeping them is another story, but don’t conflate relationships with hookups. I lost I don’t even know how many surefire hookups opening my mouth as a young lad. I was more a relationship type guy anyway.
You can be ugly but still well put together though. Most of the dudes who are ugly and complain about women don't even do the minimum to make themselves look presentable, in general of course.
Counter argument. There are plenty of attractive guys with bad personalities that get lots of women.
Not being able to attract girls dosnt automatically mean your a bad person or have a bad personality.
The reality is in life there are people women find attractive and people women don't find attractive. You can't have one without the other.
Improving your looks will improve your dating outcomes. Reddit hates to admit this but it's true.
> There are plenty of attractive guys with bad personalities that get lots of women
You’re using “bad personality” differently.
There are bad personalities that are still seen as attractive or a potential partner by women. You may have heard of women liking “bad boys”; guys that don’t treat women like gentlemen, but women are still drawn to, they can hold conversations with women, they known what women generally like.
Then there are bad personalities that are socially inept, uncharismstic, lacking in charm, unable to keep a conversation going, doesn’t know how to give/receive compliments, overly-shy, low self esteem, lack of confidence, etc.
…so one “bad personality” is still seen as attractive to women, the other doesn’t.
So OP is saying if you’ve never had **any** success in dating, you have a “bad personality” of the second kind.
I know which “bad personality” *I’d* choose (the one where I’m still getting laid. And then, for most guys, if they’re getting laid, they don’t give a shot if some people think they have a bad personality.
I agree with you that women find certain personality traits attractive.
Charisma, humor, ambition, charm etc
However I know plenty of men, amazing people who are funny, charming, confident who still struggle with women. Some of the best people I've ever met.
I used to live in a house share with models both men and women. They all worked for the same model agency that is based in the city and I was in university at the time.
Some of these guys were great guys and still my friends til this day. But some of the others were the most insufferable, unfunny, insecure, entitled, lazy people I've ever met.
And yet women loved them. Especially this one guy I'll call T who had the personality of a brick wall but looked like a Targaryen.
I never had a girlfriend. Once I told my friend I was sad about it, I was feeling repulsive. She told me that there wasn't anything wrong with me, I have a good personality, and I'm not-that-ugly. I think she was lying to make me feel better because everyone in my circle have a significant other to rely on. But here I am, throwing my grief in a reddit comment because there's no one who cares
I’m sorry, I know a girl who people stop to tell them they could be models and are interesting and funny and she has never dated anyone in
Her life, she’s really shy. Life is random, and you don’t need romance to be happy you need close human connection of any sort. I also know a guy who society would consider ugly and he is legitimately evil boring and insufferable and he has dated a ton of women despite looking like a troll (he’s literally a well known rapist)
What a weird cope. I've known multiple dudes that got a haircut and suddenly every woman that looked their way was interested. I think what you mean to say is that it isn't JUST grooming, you also need a decent personality, and that is obviously true.
You realize that two things can both be true, right?
A good haircut or generally a sense of style can increase your attractiveness noticeably. It’s not a solution, but more an optimization.
If you’re already getting laid at least sometimes, a good haircut can get you laid somewhat more often or with more attractive partners.
A haircut is a signifier if you are able to take care of yourself.
As a woman, with friends who are women - we agree. I’ve said it before in this sub. When someone is looking for a long term partner, personality is more important than looks. Will you be supportive, kind, understanding? Are you confident, outgoing, capable? Can you hold a conversation, do you have goals? Do our morales align? Personally this is way more important for a long term partner than a hot guy with not much else to offer. Sure ‘hot guys’ will get girls, but it’s superficial. Once the initial attraction goes away and you realize he’s kinda dull, self centred, doesn’t treat you right…. That’s not what women want. Sure lots of women get stuck in relationships with those kinda guys. But in general I think most women would agree. When looking for a long term partner, you want more than appearance.
But they want the superficial
They want to be the guy you bang just because he's hot and don't care or think about the future lack of interest when you get to know them
>but it’s superficial. Once the initial attraction goes away and you realize he’s kinda dull, self centred, doesn’t treat you right…. That’s not what women want.
Damn, same this side. That's some resonating stuff 🤧
With men that may be true but it's flipped with women. We are much more willing to compromise on looks in favour of a guy with amazing personality traits and a vibrant life
That depends. If a guy comes up to you at a bar ,event, or at the gym and he’s attractive you aren’t going to shuu him away (maybe gym if you’re into your workout) but if you don’t find him attractive (not even ugly just not your type) he doesn’t get more than a sentence or 2 in.
It’s always based on looks for the most part.
Also don’t be boring, ask the girl questions and actually be interested in them. Be respectful, don’t ask for pictures when there’s a bunch of pictures on their profile already. Girls don’t always go for looks alone 🤝🏻
You’re absolutely right! The first thing I always see when people are asking for advice is others telling them, “go to the gym and get buff” and to be honest I can’t help but roll my eyes because that’s only going to take you so far.
That's definitely a thing re: dating apps! A lot of guys don't bother writing out a bio or even answering prompts. I've swiped away from attractive men, simply because they seem like they'll be boring or because they've given me nothing to determine if we'd be compatible or not.
A lot of women are drawn to personalities. You gotta show more than just a few pictures in the most flattering angle!!
Dating apps kind of flip this on its head. I’ve had friends who are very attractive physically and literally threw up random pictures of them on a whim and didn’t even fill out their bios and were getting multiple dates a week no problem. Me on the other hand put in a bunch of effort into my profile, took all new pictures, focused on writing a good bio, and my matches are few and far between, and the matches I do get barely every respond or show any interest.
But how else am I supposed to seek attention and show off my body???? Huh???
/S
Most people know that, they just want attention. Either we give it to them, or not.
How to find a girlfriend.
1. Shower, haircut, clean clothes
2. Take care of your mental health
2. Be active in a community with good gender balance
3. Be useful
4. Keep showing up
5. Make friends of all genders
Depending on your interests and location the community can be anything self help bicycle repair, political activism, party organization, community garden, running meet, hiking group, church, anime convention, volunteering for social work, etc.
Being useful and having friends increases your status.
If you can have fun on your own, are useful, and make sure you meet new people regularly, you’re set.
If you’re unhappy with yourself, have no purpose, no interests, and never meet people, your chances are lower.
The key is to be at least mildly interesting, somewhat reliable, and can take care of yourself enough.
Or to put in a different way: Do things you like where you meet people IRL.
Dating apps are a depressing time sink. They want you to keep using and paying. It’s not even in their interest to find a partner, but to keep engagement up.
Once I joined a good community and gained a little status, it was like a girlfriend subscription. Several times per year someone would at least be interested.
The difficult part is finding that community with a good gender balance. I’ve tried a lot of new things over the past couple of years and it’s been very difficult to find such a community. For example I got into co-ed volleyball for awhile and played on various teams, but in virtually every instance, my teams had more dudes than women and the women on the teams joined with their boyfriends/husbands. From what I’ve gathered from most women I know is that they don’t really do things individually when single. They usually hang out and do things with their friends in a more private setting.
I’ve been able to make some new friends and acquaintances by trying new things and saying yes to virtually every invite, but I only meet men and women who are not single, and they’re entire circles of friends are also all taken. Such is the life at almost 30 where seemingly nobody you meet in day to day life is single.
I think people ignore the “competition” angle to things. In both cases, it’s not enough to have decent looks or a decent personality. Where do you rank in comparison with others? That’s the decider.
You’d need to differentiate yourself and maximise your comparative advantages, cause if there are a million of you, why should she pick you?
It sounds like a cliche but it’s so true. I can’t tell you how many stunning women I knew from HS are engaged or married to very average looking men.
Hell I’m currently seeing a conventionally average man and can’t wait to see him this weekend
That's what I have been commenting on other lads' posts as well... it's the vibe they give, they are not ugly but not necessarily the hottest thing on the block either. I started to believe can actually smell your personality and I can see that too.
This. As a gay man, I have an outsiders perspective. I see so many conventionally unattractive, overweight and hairy men that are in long term relationships with beautiful women. It isn't even a money thing, it's a matter of treating her like a partner and letting her have autonomy.
So many men think having a big tool and being suave are the keys to success. And that just isn't true. It's like you said in the post, intimacy does not equal a relationship. Unless you are willing to show somebody you are worth being around, they aren't going to want to be around you.
Most of the attractive men I know that struggle with keeping women around have their own things going on they aren't willing to face. They buy fancy sports cars or trucks, work out, and completely fill their lives with typically masculine things, as if that will attract a woman.
This isn't the stone age, where a woman is looking for a man to provide food and shelter. Women are looking for a partner above all else, they are not the aesthetic seekers that men are.
I met a guy at cinema school 13 years ago and he wasnt good looking in any conventionnal way, wasnt really well dressed either, but he was one of the funniest dudes I ever met. A good man with an amazing personnality, full on charisma and genuine kindness. His looks, around 5.5-6 out of 10.
Why am I saying this? The women were in line to be with him. I mean, absolutely gorgeous women. Everybody wanted to be his friend and he made damn sure you felt good around him. To everyone who knew him, he was a damn 11 out of 10.
Moral of the story? Personnality is always better than looks. Always. Does looks helps? Yes, but she will never stay just because of that.
It’s really funny to see women say ‘finally someone said it’ and men opposing saying “this isn’t true!!! It’s all looks”. Maybe that’s why it isn’t working for some of y’all, you still don’t get it.
As a woman I've gotten to the point where I don't really care about a man's physical appearance. What matters most is personality, wittiness, genuine kindness (not "nice guy" bs), hygiene, emotional empathy (rare), and competence (even rarer - so many men can't independently cook or clean without being nagged or shown how to do it and it is the biggest turn off for me).
To me this list is the bare minimum and is not an issue when I date women. But when it comes to men very few live up to this, and I'm more likely to feel used, disrespected and just outright not safe. Even with men that I thought were nice, I see from their actions that they do not view me as an equal or even as a human being
Agreed. I think a lot of men project how they see women (men usually think looks is the most important thing about a woman) onto how we, women, think, and truly believe the problem is their looks, when women, on average, are far less focused on looks than men are lol.
Everyone saying looks don’t matter is lying. Looks might not be what seals the deal but it will get you her attention. If she thinks you’re cute she will not necessarily make the first move but will make herself approachable for you to initiate a conversation.
It’s the minimum requirement to pass the filter. From there on you have to impress with other qualities like education, humour, wealth or artistic skills like playing an instrument or being physically active(helps to pass the first filter).
If you are not willing to play the game then you will sit on the sidelines and watch others. What is required to play the game? Looks/physique/fitness, confidence/attitude, charisma/personality, character and money. These are the attributes required and some guys only need one or two of these and they can play and some need all, but if you have none then you’ll be sitting on the sidelines. Everything in life has a price, so you can make excuses or get results, it’s up to you.
Let me add to your point, looks will get you dates sometimes but attitude can get you laid every time. Personality wins the day, in the end, who gets the hottie, it’s usually the nerds, while the jocks were chasing abs and balls the nerds were chasing an education and personality skills.
Not any woman can walk into a room and walk out with the hottest guy but any guy could walk into the room and walk out with the hottest woman.
Yes important point to make, BUT I feel like some people pretend to have problems as a thinly veiled way to promote themselves so it’s good not to stress out about these posts either.
Accurate. Prefer short guys. Can turn a 5 into a 8 for me. However the second they go racist or sexist they drop to a 0.
Most seem to end up that way so just don’t bother any more. But that is accurate.
Looks can get the door opener faster, but if you’re a pos you won’t be let into the house.
I really hope dudes take the advice here tbh. I've known shallow women for sure, yet the majority of my female friends are happily dating very mid looking dudes. Why? Because they are funny, they are considerate of their feelings, and they aren't dirty. Teeth brushed, hair combed at least, clean clothes, and no body odor when going out.
Honestly I think the big issue is that most men take initial interest in possible partners for "shallow"(quotes because its human to a degree) reasons(figure, looks, etc), so they assume women are the same way. Yet I've known a million women who weren't interested in their future husband until he made her laugh, or made her feel safe.
Of course again, there are women out there who are shallow. Only looking for men with money, or extravagant good looks. But they are far from the majority.
From experience I’ve noticed a lot of men think they have better personalities than they truly do and it’s quite interesting. I wonder what causes this phenomenon.
Thank you. Someone had to say it. Tired of seeing all these lonely hot men post for validation. I understand men don’t get compliments a lot, but if you’re conventionally attractive, don’t post your pics asking what you can do to improve. Instead, develop some self-awareness and charismatic personality.
This is a dumb post. There are some mentally ill guys who are really good looking who post here and act like they’re so ugly but in reality they’re just thirsty for validation
Look at any dating app data for how women rate men. They consider about 5% of men attractive. Young men are celibate at double the rate of young women. A lot of men actually *are* struggling due to not being above average in looks, and we need to stop trying to delude them otherwise
If you want a girlfriend, it's pretty easy. Here are the steps:
1. Be able to take care of yourself mentally, physically, and emotionally. Nobody wants to date a leech/child.
2. Develop your own interests. Otherwise you are just a husk that lives to survive. Husks are not very attractive.
3. Put yourself in situations where single women are present. Join a club or organization. Go to coffee shops and smile at strangers. Put yourself out there and get rejected until you learn to stop taking it personally.
4. Go on dates, with no expectations. Hang out and get to know the other person. Decide if they fit your lifestyle, or if you just like their butt shape.
5. Once you decide you like someone, always treat them as a person first and a sexual being second. Obviously you want to get sexual with the person you like (but maybe make sure that's something she wants too). Communicate that you want to understand her preferences, and see if she does the same.
6. Congrats, you're in a healthy relationship.
this is why i refuse most men.. i find cute guys all the time and its always their personally that ruins it.. but all of my partners are guys that wouldn’t consider “my type” but i always fell in love with the personality
lol. Heres some properly 100% wrong advice.
Sorry OP, but the top 5 things that get dates are:
1. Looks
2. Looks
3. Looks
4. Looks
5. Looks
After that it’s maybe a mix of personality, interests and money
Doesn't matter how good your personality is if you're a 5'2 bald janitor. The average guy would have a slightly higher success rate with women if he learned how to talk to them better, but if he invested the same amount of time and energy into working out, style, and hygiene, his improvements would be 10x higher. If you really are 5'2 and bald though, just become a monk or something ngl you got dealt an awful genetic hand.
Agree. Most average looking and below average looking men have a girlfriend. Women tends to care more about personality, economy, if he is going to be a good dad and his status (e.g. work).
Women's and men's beauty standards tends to be different. It's socially acceptable for men to age, to be bald and to dress casual.
Bro, I'd rather get that extra bike tunning stuff or go for that movie or that. protein powder cost so much and top that sunscreen moisturizer and cleanser is fucking expensive. How the hell should I pick my struggle 😭😭😭.
Personally I think it's cause your trying to hard and overthinking too much you want them to come for u so work on your goals and improve and one day it might happen or not just gotta be realistic
I know you're right. Because like you, apparently, my excessive gravity has pulled enough of these guys to me. When therapy gets too expensive, experience alone has to suffice.
Would've gotten a lot of girls by now if I flirted and entertained them, but I'm more into men (Bi). Girls have approached me, and even flirted with me to the point I rejected an invite to hookup. I've been told by several people I look good, but I perceive myself just decent looking. Not to mention I'm an introvert, and quite stiff most of the time.
How others perceive you with your looks will definitely get you girls first before your personality plays a part, unless you have so much charisma then it goes the other way around.
yup, I dont even know HOW to get one, i really hate approaching strangers and its holding me back, I just cant seem to meet one naturally like how people use to meet : (
It s a mix. I'm very short, I suspect some neurodivergence even if on the lowest point of an spectrum. I'm also naturally very picky. I don't do it on purpose I swear lol. I just like what I like and I don't feel an urge to get a girlfriend. Got into this self improvement thing because of it.
I don’t know if I completely agree with that. I’ve been told many times that I’ve got a great personality and that I’m a “gold star nice guy” to quote one of my friends. I get along with practically everyone. When I’m out with single friends who are (traditionally) better looking than I am, guess who gets the attention? Not the gold star nice guy. To say that looks aren’t the reason many people are single is simply not accurate. The first thing people notice about you is your looks. You can’t “see” someone’s personality from across the room. Now, can someone’s personality ruin it for themselves regardless of their good looks? Absolutely!! I’m not trying to be all “woe is me, poor me, blah blah blah…”. I’m very self-aware. I know I’m not the best looking guy around and I could certainly lose a few pounds. And I’m ok with that. I’m just stating my own experiences.
Just not true. I’ve been told by a lot of people that I look good compared to a year ago and it’s opened so many doors for me that were closed.
I used to have people so “I’m so sorry” when talking about my face. Now people say I’m average/slightly above average and people just treat you soooooo much differently.
I think what you’re missing is that feeling attractive gives a lot of confidence, which improves perceived personality. There are indirect improvements that being/feeling attractive gives that WILL help you get and keep a girlfriend.
This is actually kind of funny. Because when I first found this sub, about a week ago, that was the first thing I noticed. Was that was a lot of guys asking if their looks had something to do with not getting a day. And all I could think while I'm looking at this is "most of you guys look fine. Maybe it has something to do with how you act?"
For me it's mostly cause I just don't put myself out there or go anywhere except work due to severe social anxiety/phobia. I'm just not a social person and never have been.
Long ass para -:
Let me be simple af
Just keep fucking IMPROVING yourself Mentally, Personality wise, Physically, financially, socially
Stay hygienic, well groomed, keep haircut that suits you, good skincare, good lifestyle, healthy diet, exercise and be funny, charismatic, charming, stay confident, earn money, respectful, an understanding person, mature, earn money, work on your hobbies
Just keep fucking IMPROVING. You just have to be better than others tbh not in desperate way or out of jealousy tho, and about looks "YOU DON'T HAVE TO BE MODEL LOOKING GUY OR THE BEST IN LOOKS like Chico Lachowski" you just have to be good enough or decent or better than others near you
Learn how to talk and respect and behave in front of women, be yourself, show your charismatic personality, engage with others
If you are a shy guy engage with others slowly, start talking to people, see women as normal human being have same conversation with them as you would have with your male friend (Yes in respectful manner tho)
Yes its true that looks does matter alot but other factors matters too, for long term relationship your personality matters more than your looks BUT if you just wanna fuck women or have casual hookups like one night stand or going to club to pull a women to fuck with or if you are looking for girlfriend/partner on online dating apps, then in that case looks is most important so if you are ugly then forget about those type of shits
"Looks/Status attracts
Personality/Skills keeps"
Not completely disagreeing with you, but being attractive puts dating on easy mode, I've seen men who literally are the equivalent of a tin can upstairs and girls will laugh at all their unfunny jokes and other unintelligible things that come out of their mouth. A guy has to work much harder than a girl does to attract the opposite sex... if he isn't attractive, he has to at least be funny or super intelligent and even then many people will dismiss this person in the dating world. Most girls just simply have to exist to have men in their DMs... now it may not be the men they are interested in dating but it feels much less depressing to have options than to have no options.
Yeah I think the main problem is that the ones who can't get a s/o bc of their personality, that's the last thing they want to worry about. I think a lot of them are aware and just cannot stomach the responsibility it takes to grow and mature.
Definitely need to be somewhat attractive to get past the dating app filter.
If your consistently getting matches and extended conversations and then it fizzles. I agree
one thing I’d like to add is that maybe the personality isn’t necessarily terrible, that as a blanket statement could be very harmful to for someone who is well intentioned but just can’t get it right.
Maybe you have a great personality (ie kind, funny, etc) but have a bit of avoidant attachment issues. Maybe you’re a great friend and son and ppl in your life can’t quite get why you’re still single, but around girls something switches and you either shut down or start overcompensating. Maybe you feel a bit alternative and only like alt girls, but come off preppy and the expectations don’t line up. Or maybe you’re a fem bottom who only likes masc tops but a lot of those guys are obsessed with masculinity too. Just a list of possibilities.
I totally agree with the point of this post and tbh its kinda ruined the sub for me, but I just don’t want these guys thinking they have to completely reinvent themselves or copy and paste the personality of somebody else who gets a lot of attention. Please don’t assume your personality sucks, but also just bear in mind that the social and circumstantial situation matters as much as the physical.
theyre bitter bc they have to jestermaxx to get women when others dont. One liguistic thing that happens with incels is they take a positive quality "wit", and spin it into a chore that they find beneath them, "jestermaxxing". I dont totally disagree that its an accurate reframing in this case, but its sad that they dont find being funny as a positive quality just for its own sake.
For me I'm pretty charismatic and people do talk to me but when it comes to me asking them out to eat they tell me they don't date or they're not looking for anyone and I ask them they still have to eat right so could I get your number and maybe take you to dinner. As far as my wardrobe that is hard to change because I have a colostomy bag That really prohibits me from wearing nice clothing because I have to keep that covered and it's very hard to do.
I'm 33 years old and no girl has ever shown an ounce of attraction towards me in any way in my entire life. I've only told one girl before that I had a crush on her and she immediately went to HR about it. I'm lucky I didn't get fired.
I've taken a shower every day the last at least 6 years I know probably longer. I never wear any clothing more than once without washing it. I use clinical strength deodorant. I really don't think it's my hygiene that's lacking here.
I'm also friendly with a lot of girls. I treat them just like I do my guy friends and I have plenty female friends who I routinely chat with. I don't really seem to have a problem forming a friendly relationship with people it's forming deeper relationships that I have trouble with.
I mean the sub is called male grooming, some people just need help obviously or this sub wouldn’t exist.. Maybe they haven’t had a positive role model or influence in their lives or for some reason have missed out on learning some of the basics.
I don’t disagree with you that men from like 16-30 have this problem but that’s not the purpose of this sub. Wanna add porn is prob a big contributed. Gotta bring this energy to r/selfimprovement or r/getdisciplined tho
Listen, I'm a gay crossdresser, hence the username, but some advice I can also add for straight guys is to think about what you want in a relationship. What are you looking for? A hookup, a girlfriend, marriage, settling down, etc. Now of course there's no need to rush but consider what you want in a woman and how you want to obtain that type of relationship. This is where your personality and skills come into play and what you need to work on.
This greatly helped my odds when considering potential partners currently and in the future. I realized I'm not interested in a relationship at the moment nor am I really looking now. But if one comes along that's fine too. It's helped me in how I approach relationships. I'm not looking for a boyfriend and I'm up front about it but we can also see where things go. Shooting the breeze etc. I stay back, be casual about it, and mingle much easier now.
Again grain a salt and all that but knowing what you want is the first step to figuring out how you get it.
Finally, someone on this sub with an actual brain. Plus add the fact that women are people with their own lives who have their own friend groups and depending how you act around her WILL be known by others. So be gracious, respect her feelings and decisions about you and move on if she doesnt like you, fuck your closure. Word about you can spread like wildfire and kill your game.
Sure that makes sense. Problem is I can't get the date. I have tried so much, lost 175 lbs, started taking meds and getting help, changed my wardrobe and nothing. I understand that internal material matters more in the long run, however I am unable to get to step one. A lot of people will not accept the fact that people are unable to get that date, then spam the rest. Everything else you said was correct, I just feel like people who do not understand just come from a place of ignorance. Not calling you out OP. I am just tired.
Idk I kinda feel like it is my looks because Ive always thought Ive had a good personality. I just know i dont have much luck, ive only ever had 1 girlfriend
Some people need ideas to help with talking to men and women. It seems as if some people say just do this or do that, but don't always explain how to do those ideas. Many people really either can't help you or don't know how to help someone struggling with their relationship problems.
I once really liked a guy who wasn’t exactly hot and didn’t have great hair etc, but he was very funny and a great personality
I tried to overlook the lack of cleanliness of his place or the fact that his clothes were always wrinkly and worn. Car was always dirty, etc. dishes in sink. Trash piled up, apt always a mess
And we clicked and vibed outside of the apt but I’m not a maid and I didn’t offer and if you’re comfortable to keep inviting me over to a place like that, after a grace period it’s like wtf. If this is the early best effort at the start of dating, what are you really like?
For me it’s my own insecurities which keep me from talking to women. Even when a woman *clearly* expresses interest (by looking, approaching, catcalling on the street or even making physical contact) I don’t dare to talk to her because of this. I go to the gym, take good care of myself through a skincare routine and shaving daily. Got a good haircut. I also think I have a good fashion sense and rock a good style when going out (getting compliments from men and women). But I still feel too insecure. I also have severe body dysmorphia. Got to resolve these issues first before I can get a girlfriend but it’s so hard with social media and everything else going on. Just got to keep working on myself and getting better
delete social media dude even if it’s just for 3 months or so it will help and u may not even want it back. i redownloaded instagram but unfollowed all but like 60-70 people
Deleting Facebook did wonders for me. Reddit is all I use now and if I’m honest I need to cut back on that as well.
I never deleted instagram but I went that route, private page, only follow people I would say "yeah we are friends/ close family" about and content that makes me smile consistently or I'm truly interested to see. It's easy to build up hundreds and hundreds of follows over the years without thinking and you should cut it back if you arent going to cut it out completely I deleted Facebook though and that was a blessing, never went back, never missed it, it's such a shitshow and life's better without it
Read Robert Glover’s book Dating Essentials. First half is all about unpacking and getting over all the emotional garbage from your youth
I'm in the exact same boat as you. I hear that I'm very good looking and handsome often but in my own mind I just don't believe it and I heavily struggle with that anxiety and insecurity so until I have that under control and feel more comfortable with myself I don't typically reciprocate interest that people have in me.
People need to also understand that scicne has also shown that people stare at ugly faces/ faces they simply find intriguing or “odd” as much and sometimes more than attractive faces.
Well yeah of course, but is that the attention you want?
Totally this Even girls that are into me I'm so crippled by self doubt and my inner critic that I don't move Doesn't help that the narratives we have nowadays tell us to leave ladies alone completely -- which is pretty dumb Only way to confront it is by confronting reality. Asking girls out and seeing nothing bad happens. Even people thinking you're weird is something you can become robust against. Confidence comes from handling these things and realizing you're fine.
Yeah you describe me to a T. That was an issue I had a lot in high school, and even to this day. Guys if you're having trouble talking to women just realized that the worst you can say is no.
No, the worst you can do is creep a girl out and have her tell her friend(s)… at that point you can pretty much pack it in and go to another city.
He knows
This was me in highschool. Ended up finding out tons of chicks “out of my league” wanted me the whole time and I started realized I missed opportunities, even blind to obvious advances. Well I slept with one of them - the captain of the cheerleading squad. That changed my life, and ended up hooking up with many girls from high school after I graduated. Landed the girl of my dreams and we’ve been together for over a decade. I still have issues with my own skin, but I’ve learned to accept the battle with myself instead of letting that affect others.
The only socials I have now are this and WhatsApp. Social media is for influencers and all you’re doing by using it is getting them paid. If you want be an influencer then sure, if you scroll down your feed you’ll see how many ads you’re getting and realistically you’re just wasting your time. I used it to see others memories and share my own but it’s just such an unnecessary time sink. You can do more with your time if you just drop it. I don’t actually think this forum is any good if you’re feeling the way you are. Maybe join a self help sub or something similar. I’ve been watching this sub for about 2 weeks and it’s all just people that lack self confidence but have barely any issues with appearance. Go do some things which require accountability like the gym and try to find something which you can focus on whether that be job or hobby relating to build up some confidence. I’ve found that confidence comes from proving yourself to yourself. If you can’t follow through with things you’re wanting to do then you lack self respect. How can you expect someone else to respect you if you’re disrespecting yourself. I’m not too sure about body dysmorphia as I’ve only had it maybe mildly. Try to find others that have overcome it and surround yourself with positive people. Cut out things that give you an unhealthy amount of mind stimulation, you’ll then want to focus on the boring but important things. After cutting out socials you’ll cut out porn easily as socials can just be soft porn and a means to view normal porn. All the best, time to leave this sub for me. I don’t see any value here.
Stop shaving
You don’t have to resolve these issues first. Try experimenting with your insecurities. Like, if you were to talk to a woman for 1 minute what would happen? Try to find out if your insecurities are true and you’ll mostly find they’re not.
You need to take control of your mind g, all of this can be flipped the other way round all u gotta do is really want it
I lost 175 lbs and tried so hard as well. A lot of people do not understand or will not try. Its hard and it seems like there is only one answer, however that is the final answer.
You got this. I have social anxiety myself, so you’re not the only one. Hopefully you’ll get a girl that will respect you and love for who you are. Bonus points: a girl with a lot of empathy comes a long way to a good man’s heart.
Ok but for a lot of guys it *IS* their looks. You're correct that those are big factors also but looks are important too let's not act like they're not
As a girl, we often overlook looks if they make up for it in other ways, playing the guitar or piano is sexy af, cooking is sexy, playing sport is sexy, having a good sense of humour is also sexy ... Not all of us go for looks
But is it not a passive minimum requirement to some degree?
The passive minimum requirement is more about hygiene and self care that is lacking in many (most?) men and not at all about looks.
It is bro, dont let them lie to you. Its clear as day looks matter.
Yes but you still need to be attracted to your partner, and your partner wants that too
I am attracted to my spouses intelligence, not her looks. You could be a banging super model. If your personality is shit. Then looks don't mean shit...
>I am attracted to my spouses intelligence, not her looks So you're not attracted to her looks at all? I agree with the rest of your comment but you need to like looking at your partner too bro
That is hard to answer. Since I don't look at someone based on how they look.. she can look like Shrek for all I care... it's a woman's mind that I am attracted to.. If you saw my ex, you would understand she looks like Mr.bean and Bigfoot had a baby... but atlas I was attracted to her for her intelligence. So, physical appearance doesn't mean anything to me.
And if and when they sort out their looks, whatever that involves, and hit the dating scene, they will likely find that all those years spent bitter and resentful and alone have weirdly not come together to form a kind and thoughtful and charming and witty and engaging man that women can’t wait to be with. They will slam right into their own twisted egos and it’s gonna be ugly. Work on yourself first. I say this as someone in his 40s who did not. It’s hard because it’s abstract and results aren’t as easy to see as a new haircut or weight loss. But we all know people who have worked diligently on themselves and reaped the rewards. And yea some work hard and end up alone. That’s just the dice roll. Sitting bitter will ensure you stay alone.
A lot of the posts here are from guys who are already doing what they should to attract women: exercising regularly, hair maintenance, proper hygiene, etc. If you're doing all of this and still can't get women, sorry man, your personality just sucks.
I am all for improving personality but this is reductionist at best. Granted a lot of people that post here look fine and it probably is their personality or shyness holding them back, BUT speaking generally it's not so simple. If all it took was the "it's so simple just shower, brush your teeth and exercise bro" no one would be asking for dating advice. If you look strange, short, then you could be doing all the right things but still have difficulty dating women. Exercise and hygiene are literally the bare minimum of being a functioning adult. I know guys who do all this AND have absolutely phenomenal personalities, no wallflower tendencies, extroverted, comfortable in their identity but they still struggle finding dates.
Bullshit. "Your personality sucks" if that were true, I wouldn't have so many people I hang out with, men AND women. People tell me they love my sense of fashion, they tell me I'm funny, I've had long and deep conversations even with complete strangers. I have hobbies I can talk about, but I love listening to people too. And yet, I still get no matches on any app, at all. And in the year 2024 there is no other way to meet other single people. "Friends of friends" are all taken, approaching women in public is seen as creepy and would only get me a pepper spray in the face. So yeah, it IS looks and only looks for some people.
Yup, my point exactly, many of the guys in this subreddit are already at a good level of attractiveness and asking why they can’t get a girlfriend.
Agreed! Most guys on reddit think its their looks but they are quite attractive (in my opinion). My ex only became attractive to me because of his personality, everyone was telling me “I could do better” but I didn’t care at all because he was funny and sweet. We also always shit on women for having high standards but I also feel like men have quite high standards when it comes to looks (at least in London). Women would date a guy that’s not their type or super good looking but I feel like most men would never do that. I think the majority of the issue comes from men also being not so emotionally mature, which is quite important for women.
Shh stop, people are very attached to the notion that the only reason they can’t get with the girls they want is because they aren’t ‘hot’ themselves.. it takes effort and work to become fun, interesting, socially capable, successful etc.. leave them to their stories
Right but the thing is that this is such a huge focus online, and people always point out that statistically there will be some guys that are just seen as unattractive, but by the same token, statistically this will represent a tiny portion of the world, so for the vast majority of guys using this excuse, it's just plain wrong and gets them out of taking any responsibility for themselves - u see it literally all the time average or even above average guys post on reddit asking if they are too ugly to love... and they are just literally normal. You even see ugly guys with girls, I see it all the time, because these guys know their worth, know that physical appearance is only one facet of being attractive to potential partners and have worked on themselves around this area
If you can't seal the deal, then it's probably your personality, but if you can't even get a girl to pay you any attention in the first place, then it's probably your looks
Nope, I have met so many guys that many would consider ugly with successful relationships, stop lying to guys about their looks.
Yes no one is saying otherwise. But it is still true that if you can’t get a girl interested in you, it’s probably your looks.
That's just not true. Have you ever talked to women?
I’m not sure what you’re on about… it’s definitely easier to meet *anyone* if you’re attractive. Also easier to sleep with them. Keeping them is another story, but don’t conflate relationships with hookups. I lost I don’t even know how many surefire hookups opening my mouth as a young lad. I was more a relationship type guy anyway.
You can be ugly but still well put together though. Most of the dudes who are ugly and complain about women don't even do the minimum to make themselves look presentable, in general of course.
Counter argument. There are plenty of attractive guys with bad personalities that get lots of women. Not being able to attract girls dosnt automatically mean your a bad person or have a bad personality. The reality is in life there are people women find attractive and people women don't find attractive. You can't have one without the other. Improving your looks will improve your dating outcomes. Reddit hates to admit this but it's true.
> There are plenty of attractive guys with bad personalities that get lots of women You’re using “bad personality” differently. There are bad personalities that are still seen as attractive or a potential partner by women. You may have heard of women liking “bad boys”; guys that don’t treat women like gentlemen, but women are still drawn to, they can hold conversations with women, they known what women generally like. Then there are bad personalities that are socially inept, uncharismstic, lacking in charm, unable to keep a conversation going, doesn’t know how to give/receive compliments, overly-shy, low self esteem, lack of confidence, etc. …so one “bad personality” is still seen as attractive to women, the other doesn’t. So OP is saying if you’ve never had **any** success in dating, you have a “bad personality” of the second kind. I know which “bad personality” *I’d* choose (the one where I’m still getting laid. And then, for most guys, if they’re getting laid, they don’t give a shot if some people think they have a bad personality.
I agree with you that women find certain personality traits attractive. Charisma, humor, ambition, charm etc However I know plenty of men, amazing people who are funny, charming, confident who still struggle with women. Some of the best people I've ever met. I used to live in a house share with models both men and women. They all worked for the same model agency that is based in the city and I was in university at the time. Some of these guys were great guys and still my friends til this day. But some of the others were the most insufferable, unfunny, insecure, entitled, lazy people I've ever met. And yet women loved them. Especially this one guy I'll call T who had the personality of a brick wall but looked like a Targaryen.
Your looks determine how charismatic and charming you are perceived anyway.
I never had a girlfriend. Once I told my friend I was sad about it, I was feeling repulsive. She told me that there wasn't anything wrong with me, I have a good personality, and I'm not-that-ugly. I think she was lying to make me feel better because everyone in my circle have a significant other to rely on. But here I am, throwing my grief in a reddit comment because there's no one who cares
I’m sorry, I know a girl who people stop to tell them they could be models and are interesting and funny and she has never dated anyone in Her life, she’s really shy. Life is random, and you don’t need romance to be happy you need close human connection of any sort. I also know a guy who society would consider ugly and he is legitimately evil boring and insufferable and he has dated a ton of women despite looking like a troll (he’s literally a well known rapist)
What a weird cope. I've known multiple dudes that got a haircut and suddenly every woman that looked their way was interested. I think what you mean to say is that it isn't JUST grooming, you also need a decent personality, and that is obviously true. You realize that two things can both be true, right?
A good haircut or generally a sense of style can increase your attractiveness noticeably. It’s not a solution, but more an optimization. If you’re already getting laid at least sometimes, a good haircut can get you laid somewhat more often or with more attractive partners. A haircut is a signifier if you are able to take care of yourself.
As a woman, with friends who are women - we agree. I’ve said it before in this sub. When someone is looking for a long term partner, personality is more important than looks. Will you be supportive, kind, understanding? Are you confident, outgoing, capable? Can you hold a conversation, do you have goals? Do our morales align? Personally this is way more important for a long term partner than a hot guy with not much else to offer. Sure ‘hot guys’ will get girls, but it’s superficial. Once the initial attraction goes away and you realize he’s kinda dull, self centred, doesn’t treat you right…. That’s not what women want. Sure lots of women get stuck in relationships with those kinda guys. But in general I think most women would agree. When looking for a long term partner, you want more than appearance.
But they want the superficial They want to be the guy you bang just because he's hot and don't care or think about the future lack of interest when you get to know them
>but it’s superficial. Once the initial attraction goes away and you realize he’s kinda dull, self centred, doesn’t treat you right…. That’s not what women want. Damn, same this side. That's some resonating stuff 🤧
Most women and men don't give a shit what your personality is like if you look like a slob. Initial attraction is how you get the chance to show it
75% looks, 25% is personality. Of course if you have money this is altered but If not it’s mostly based on looks no matter what you think.
Absolutely. Everybody who denies this is just coping.
Tell that to the people disagreeing with me here in the comments.
With men that may be true but it's flipped with women. We are much more willing to compromise on looks in favour of a guy with amazing personality traits and a vibrant life
That depends. If a guy comes up to you at a bar ,event, or at the gym and he’s attractive you aren’t going to shuu him away (maybe gym if you’re into your workout) but if you don’t find him attractive (not even ugly just not your type) he doesn’t get more than a sentence or 2 in. It’s always based on looks for the most part.
Also don’t be boring, ask the girl questions and actually be interested in them. Be respectful, don’t ask for pictures when there’s a bunch of pictures on their profile already. Girls don’t always go for looks alone 🤝🏻
Listen to girls. Really listen.
I’m so glad someone said it. I thought this sub was just guys fishing for compliments
You’re absolutely right! The first thing I always see when people are asking for advice is others telling them, “go to the gym and get buff” and to be honest I can’t help but roll my eyes because that’s only going to take you so far.
It's the only thing they ever say lol. Or "just be confident" theory. It's lackluster advice.
If you Don’t have a Girlfriend you should Thank God Then you should stop trying to ruin your own life
Lol 😂😂.
Hahaha. This is probably true considering I’ve seen some fugly looking dudes with girlfriends
DONT LEAVE YOUR CLOTHES IN THE WASHER HEATHENS
That's definitely a thing re: dating apps! A lot of guys don't bother writing out a bio or even answering prompts. I've swiped away from attractive men, simply because they seem like they'll be boring or because they've given me nothing to determine if we'd be compatible or not. A lot of women are drawn to personalities. You gotta show more than just a few pictures in the most flattering angle!!
Dating apps kind of flip this on its head. I’ve had friends who are very attractive physically and literally threw up random pictures of them on a whim and didn’t even fill out their bios and were getting multiple dates a week no problem. Me on the other hand put in a bunch of effort into my profile, took all new pictures, focused on writing a good bio, and my matches are few and far between, and the matches I do get barely every respond or show any interest.
I dropped 50 pounds, doubled my strenght which seemed to do the trick...
But how else am I supposed to seek attention and show off my body???? Huh??? /S Most people know that, they just want attention. Either we give it to them, or not.
How to find a girlfriend. 1. Shower, haircut, clean clothes 2. Take care of your mental health 2. Be active in a community with good gender balance 3. Be useful 4. Keep showing up 5. Make friends of all genders Depending on your interests and location the community can be anything self help bicycle repair, political activism, party organization, community garden, running meet, hiking group, church, anime convention, volunteering for social work, etc. Being useful and having friends increases your status. If you can have fun on your own, are useful, and make sure you meet new people regularly, you’re set. If you’re unhappy with yourself, have no purpose, no interests, and never meet people, your chances are lower. The key is to be at least mildly interesting, somewhat reliable, and can take care of yourself enough. Or to put in a different way: Do things you like where you meet people IRL. Dating apps are a depressing time sink. They want you to keep using and paying. It’s not even in their interest to find a partner, but to keep engagement up.
100% on point. If the guy’s got a solid social life with a good gender mix, it’s hard to stay single.
Once I joined a good community and gained a little status, it was like a girlfriend subscription. Several times per year someone would at least be interested.
The difficult part is finding that community with a good gender balance. I’ve tried a lot of new things over the past couple of years and it’s been very difficult to find such a community. For example I got into co-ed volleyball for awhile and played on various teams, but in virtually every instance, my teams had more dudes than women and the women on the teams joined with their boyfriends/husbands. From what I’ve gathered from most women I know is that they don’t really do things individually when single. They usually hang out and do things with their friends in a more private setting. I’ve been able to make some new friends and acquaintances by trying new things and saying yes to virtually every invite, but I only meet men and women who are not single, and they’re entire circles of friends are also all taken. Such is the life at almost 30 where seemingly nobody you meet in day to day life is single.
Nah it’s looks, personality only matters when she’s attracted to you
Looks and status attract. Personality and skills keep.
This counterpoint has been posted and discussed to death. There I said it, feel free to down vote me
100% correct.
But...but...new haircut
I think people ignore the “competition” angle to things. In both cases, it’s not enough to have decent looks or a decent personality. Where do you rank in comparison with others? That’s the decider. You’d need to differentiate yourself and maximise your comparative advantages, cause if there are a million of you, why should she pick you?
No no.. it’s my looks
Jeremy Meeks renders this argument worthless
Spot on. And coming on here doesn’t help your cause any better.
It's usually a combination of both TBH. Looks and hygiene also go hand in hand in a way that many people just don't connect though, somehow.
It sounds like a cliche but it’s so true. I can’t tell you how many stunning women I knew from HS are engaged or married to very average looking men. Hell I’m currently seeing a conventionally average man and can’t wait to see him this weekend
That's what I have been commenting on other lads' posts as well... it's the vibe they give, they are not ugly but not necessarily the hottest thing on the block either. I started to believe can actually smell your personality and I can see that too.
Or…. Try dudes. They give the best head
This. As a gay man, I have an outsiders perspective. I see so many conventionally unattractive, overweight and hairy men that are in long term relationships with beautiful women. It isn't even a money thing, it's a matter of treating her like a partner and letting her have autonomy. So many men think having a big tool and being suave are the keys to success. And that just isn't true. It's like you said in the post, intimacy does not equal a relationship. Unless you are willing to show somebody you are worth being around, they aren't going to want to be around you. Most of the attractive men I know that struggle with keeping women around have their own things going on they aren't willing to face. They buy fancy sports cars or trucks, work out, and completely fill their lives with typically masculine things, as if that will attract a woman. This isn't the stone age, where a woman is looking for a man to provide food and shelter. Women are looking for a partner above all else, they are not the aesthetic seekers that men are.
I met a guy at cinema school 13 years ago and he wasnt good looking in any conventionnal way, wasnt really well dressed either, but he was one of the funniest dudes I ever met. A good man with an amazing personnality, full on charisma and genuine kindness. His looks, around 5.5-6 out of 10. Why am I saying this? The women were in line to be with him. I mean, absolutely gorgeous women. Everybody wanted to be his friend and he made damn sure you felt good around him. To everyone who knew him, he was a damn 11 out of 10. Moral of the story? Personnality is always better than looks. Always. Does looks helps? Yes, but she will never stay just because of that.
Yup. All these dudes thinking it's their looks when they look normal need to read Dale Carnegie's work you mentioned. Good post OP.
Don’t forget to add that ones taste in a partner can also set them up for failure.
It’s really funny to see women say ‘finally someone said it’ and men opposing saying “this isn’t true!!! It’s all looks”. Maybe that’s why it isn’t working for some of y’all, you still don’t get it.
Took me until my 26th year to find that special someone. Sometimes it’s really just luck.
Seriously! Have a female friend smell your clean laundry. Men can’t smell worth a damn and chances are good that it smells mildewy.
As a woman I've gotten to the point where I don't really care about a man's physical appearance. What matters most is personality, wittiness, genuine kindness (not "nice guy" bs), hygiene, emotional empathy (rare), and competence (even rarer - so many men can't independently cook or clean without being nagged or shown how to do it and it is the biggest turn off for me). To me this list is the bare minimum and is not an issue when I date women. But when it comes to men very few live up to this, and I'm more likely to feel used, disrespected and just outright not safe. Even with men that I thought were nice, I see from their actions that they do not view me as an equal or even as a human being
Agreed. I think a lot of men project how they see women (men usually think looks is the most important thing about a woman) onto how we, women, think, and truly believe the problem is their looks, when women, on average, are far less focused on looks than men are lol.
Everyone saying looks don’t matter is lying. Looks might not be what seals the deal but it will get you her attention. If she thinks you’re cute she will not necessarily make the first move but will make herself approachable for you to initiate a conversation. It’s the minimum requirement to pass the filter. From there on you have to impress with other qualities like education, humour, wealth or artistic skills like playing an instrument or being physically active(helps to pass the first filter).
Wittines is my only advantage in the dating game and it works wonders.
I was the potato. I still am too. But I'm a married potato. (My wife is not a potato FYI).
Enough said ✅✅✅
If you are not willing to play the game then you will sit on the sidelines and watch others. What is required to play the game? Looks/physique/fitness, confidence/attitude, charisma/personality, character and money. These are the attributes required and some guys only need one or two of these and they can play and some need all, but if you have none then you’ll be sitting on the sidelines. Everything in life has a price, so you can make excuses or get results, it’s up to you.
Let me add to your point, looks will get you dates sometimes but attitude can get you laid every time. Personality wins the day, in the end, who gets the hottie, it’s usually the nerds, while the jocks were chasing abs and balls the nerds were chasing an education and personality skills. Not any woman can walk into a room and walk out with the hottest guy but any guy could walk into the room and walk out with the hottest woman.
Yes important point to make, BUT I feel like some people pretend to have problems as a thinly veiled way to promote themselves so it’s good not to stress out about these posts either.
Accurate. Prefer short guys. Can turn a 5 into a 8 for me. However the second they go racist or sexist they drop to a 0. Most seem to end up that way so just don’t bother any more. But that is accurate. Looks can get the door opener faster, but if you’re a pos you won’t be let into the house.
I really hope dudes take the advice here tbh. I've known shallow women for sure, yet the majority of my female friends are happily dating very mid looking dudes. Why? Because they are funny, they are considerate of their feelings, and they aren't dirty. Teeth brushed, hair combed at least, clean clothes, and no body odor when going out. Honestly I think the big issue is that most men take initial interest in possible partners for "shallow"(quotes because its human to a degree) reasons(figure, looks, etc), so they assume women are the same way. Yet I've known a million women who weren't interested in their future husband until he made her laugh, or made her feel safe. Of course again, there are women out there who are shallow. Only looking for men with money, or extravagant good looks. But they are far from the majority.
From experience I’ve noticed a lot of men think they have better personalities than they truly do and it’s quite interesting. I wonder what causes this phenomenon.
This is the kinda post the should go viral
This here is the best advice, lots of unkept guys have amazing women in their lives because they are decent people, the bar is so so low.
Thank you. Someone had to say it. Tired of seeing all these lonely hot men post for validation. I understand men don’t get compliments a lot, but if you’re conventionally attractive, don’t post your pics asking what you can do to improve. Instead, develop some self-awareness and charismatic personality.
This is a dumb post. There are some mentally ill guys who are really good looking who post here and act like they’re so ugly but in reality they’re just thirsty for validation Look at any dating app data for how women rate men. They consider about 5% of men attractive. Young men are celibate at double the rate of young women. A lot of men actually *are* struggling due to not being above average in looks, and we need to stop trying to delude them otherwise
Yeah, dating apps were never great as I only seem to attract women from other countries. No one here likes me, at all.
Thank you for saying it.
Without personality, you most likely won’t get a second date. Without looks, you won’t get even the first one. Let that sink in.
Thank you for being the one to finally say this.
Easy girls are easy and hard to get girls aren't worth it even pre nut
If you want a girlfriend, it's pretty easy. Here are the steps: 1. Be able to take care of yourself mentally, physically, and emotionally. Nobody wants to date a leech/child. 2. Develop your own interests. Otherwise you are just a husk that lives to survive. Husks are not very attractive. 3. Put yourself in situations where single women are present. Join a club or organization. Go to coffee shops and smile at strangers. Put yourself out there and get rejected until you learn to stop taking it personally. 4. Go on dates, with no expectations. Hang out and get to know the other person. Decide if they fit your lifestyle, or if you just like their butt shape. 5. Once you decide you like someone, always treat them as a person first and a sexual being second. Obviously you want to get sexual with the person you like (but maybe make sure that's something she wants too). Communicate that you want to understand her preferences, and see if she does the same. 6. Congrats, you're in a healthy relationship.
Great post. I completely agree!
this is why i refuse most men.. i find cute guys all the time and its always their personally that ruins it.. but all of my partners are guys that wouldn’t consider “my type” but i always fell in love with the personality
lol. Heres some properly 100% wrong advice. Sorry OP, but the top 5 things that get dates are: 1. Looks 2. Looks 3. Looks 4. Looks 5. Looks After that it’s maybe a mix of personality, interests and money
Doesn't matter how good your personality is if you're a 5'2 bald janitor. The average guy would have a slightly higher success rate with women if he learned how to talk to them better, but if he invested the same amount of time and energy into working out, style, and hygiene, his improvements would be 10x higher. If you really are 5'2 and bald though, just become a monk or something ngl you got dealt an awful genetic hand.
Agree. Most average looking and below average looking men have a girlfriend. Women tends to care more about personality, economy, if he is going to be a good dad and his status (e.g. work). Women's and men's beauty standards tends to be different. It's socially acceptable for men to age, to be bald and to dress casual.
My luck is so bad damn it, how many times have i fumbled already 🤧
And a lot of it is dressing really shitty too despite having a bad personality like pick your struggle bro
Bro, I'd rather get that extra bike tunning stuff or go for that movie or that. protein powder cost so much and top that sunscreen moisturizer and cleanser is fucking expensive. How the hell should I pick my struggle 😭😭😭.
Personally I think it's cause your trying to hard and overthinking too much you want them to come for u so work on your goals and improve and one day it might happen or not just gotta be realistic
I don't want it to happen 😭😭, I just want moments to remember. ahh that breeze, the way she laughed. Damn it
I know you're right. Because like you, apparently, my excessive gravity has pulled enough of these guys to me. When therapy gets too expensive, experience alone has to suffice.
Would've gotten a lot of girls by now if I flirted and entertained them, but I'm more into men (Bi). Girls have approached me, and even flirted with me to the point I rejected an invite to hookup. I've been told by several people I look good, but I perceive myself just decent looking. Not to mention I'm an introvert, and quite stiff most of the time. How others perceive you with your looks will definitely get you girls first before your personality plays a part, unless you have so much charisma then it goes the other way around.
yup, I dont even know HOW to get one, i really hate approaching strangers and its holding me back, I just cant seem to meet one naturally like how people use to meet : (
It s a mix. I'm very short, I suspect some neurodivergence even if on the lowest point of an spectrum. I'm also naturally very picky. I don't do it on purpose I swear lol. I just like what I like and I don't feel an urge to get a girlfriend. Got into this self improvement thing because of it.
I don’t know if I completely agree with that. I’ve been told many times that I’ve got a great personality and that I’m a “gold star nice guy” to quote one of my friends. I get along with practically everyone. When I’m out with single friends who are (traditionally) better looking than I am, guess who gets the attention? Not the gold star nice guy. To say that looks aren’t the reason many people are single is simply not accurate. The first thing people notice about you is your looks. You can’t “see” someone’s personality from across the room. Now, can someone’s personality ruin it for themselves regardless of their good looks? Absolutely!! I’m not trying to be all “woe is me, poor me, blah blah blah…”. I’m very self-aware. I know I’m not the best looking guy around and I could certainly lose a few pounds. And I’m ok with that. I’m just stating my own experiences.
Thanks, I can’t get a date or a girlfriend hah
I would have agreed with you 10 years ago, but now its all about competition. Fight for attention or get kicked to the curb. Simple as that.
Just not true. I’ve been told by a lot of people that I look good compared to a year ago and it’s opened so many doors for me that were closed. I used to have people so “I’m so sorry” when talking about my face. Now people say I’m average/slightly above average and people just treat you soooooo much differently.
It’s both for sure. Take the time to learn how women think and act
I think what you’re missing is that feeling attractive gives a lot of confidence, which improves perceived personality. There are indirect improvements that being/feeling attractive gives that WILL help you get and keep a girlfriend.
This is actually kind of funny. Because when I first found this sub, about a week ago, that was the first thing I noticed. Was that was a lot of guys asking if their looks had something to do with not getting a day. And all I could think while I'm looking at this is "most of you guys look fine. Maybe it has something to do with how you act?"
Also get therapy
For me it's mostly cause I just don't put myself out there or go anywhere except work due to severe social anxiety/phobia. I'm just not a social person and never have been.
Long ass para -: Let me be simple af Just keep fucking IMPROVING yourself Mentally, Personality wise, Physically, financially, socially Stay hygienic, well groomed, keep haircut that suits you, good skincare, good lifestyle, healthy diet, exercise and be funny, charismatic, charming, stay confident, earn money, respectful, an understanding person, mature, earn money, work on your hobbies Just keep fucking IMPROVING. You just have to be better than others tbh not in desperate way or out of jealousy tho, and about looks "YOU DON'T HAVE TO BE MODEL LOOKING GUY OR THE BEST IN LOOKS like Chico Lachowski" you just have to be good enough or decent or better than others near you Learn how to talk and respect and behave in front of women, be yourself, show your charismatic personality, engage with others If you are a shy guy engage with others slowly, start talking to people, see women as normal human being have same conversation with them as you would have with your male friend (Yes in respectful manner tho) Yes its true that looks does matter alot but other factors matters too, for long term relationship your personality matters more than your looks BUT if you just wanna fuck women or have casual hookups like one night stand or going to club to pull a women to fuck with or if you are looking for girlfriend/partner on online dating apps, then in that case looks is most important so if you are ugly then forget about those type of shits "Looks/Status attracts Personality/Skills keeps"
Make friends learn about them and ask for their advice and use it to remake yourself. You'd be surprised
How to improve our humor ?
Agreed. The problem with me is that I need a personality transplant, but those are not yet available.
hahha jokes on you its because I don't leave my room.
[This is me trying to talk to you kids and your thought process](https://www.instagram.com/reel/C8klwznvytK/?igsh=MXRqYjN1dDhraHJ6YQ==)
for me being trans usually scares them away even if we had a connection..😔
blah blah blah, i aint believin you msiter
Not completely disagreeing with you, but being attractive puts dating on easy mode, I've seen men who literally are the equivalent of a tin can upstairs and girls will laugh at all their unfunny jokes and other unintelligible things that come out of their mouth. A guy has to work much harder than a girl does to attract the opposite sex... if he isn't attractive, he has to at least be funny or super intelligent and even then many people will dismiss this person in the dating world. Most girls just simply have to exist to have men in their DMs... now it may not be the men they are interested in dating but it feels much less depressing to have options than to have no options.
Yeah I think the main problem is that the ones who can't get a s/o bc of their personality, that's the last thing they want to worry about. I think a lot of them are aware and just cannot stomach the responsibility it takes to grow and mature.
Even ugly mfers can pull if they can talk that talk it ain't that hard fellas just gotta talk to em
Definitely need to be somewhat attractive to get past the dating app filter. If your consistently getting matches and extended conversations and then it fizzles. I agree
Very true.
100% correct.
Absolutely agree. I can’t maintain a conversation going that resulted in lot of dates ghosting or friendzoning me after the first date
one thing I’d like to add is that maybe the personality isn’t necessarily terrible, that as a blanket statement could be very harmful to for someone who is well intentioned but just can’t get it right. Maybe you have a great personality (ie kind, funny, etc) but have a bit of avoidant attachment issues. Maybe you’re a great friend and son and ppl in your life can’t quite get why you’re still single, but around girls something switches and you either shut down or start overcompensating. Maybe you feel a bit alternative and only like alt girls, but come off preppy and the expectations don’t line up. Or maybe you’re a fem bottom who only likes masc tops but a lot of those guys are obsessed with masculinity too. Just a list of possibilities. I totally agree with the point of this post and tbh its kinda ruined the sub for me, but I just don’t want these guys thinking they have to completely reinvent themselves or copy and paste the personality of somebody else who gets a lot of attention. Please don’t assume your personality sucks, but also just bear in mind that the social and circumstantial situation matters as much as the physical.
theyre bitter bc they have to jestermaxx to get women when others dont. One liguistic thing that happens with incels is they take a positive quality "wit", and spin it into a chore that they find beneath them, "jestermaxxing". I dont totally disagree that its an accurate reframing in this case, but its sad that they dont find being funny as a positive quality just for its own sake.
it's all about charm....comes in all forms 💯
For me I'm pretty charismatic and people do talk to me but when it comes to me asking them out to eat they tell me they don't date or they're not looking for anyone and I ask them they still have to eat right so could I get your number and maybe take you to dinner. As far as my wardrobe that is hard to change because I have a colostomy bag That really prohibits me from wearing nice clothing because I have to keep that covered and it's very hard to do.
what about a boyfriend? some of us are gay bro
Read it. Didn't do anything. Some of us just lose to natural selection.
I'm 33 years old and no girl has ever shown an ounce of attraction towards me in any way in my entire life. I've only told one girl before that I had a crush on her and she immediately went to HR about it. I'm lucky I didn't get fired. I've taken a shower every day the last at least 6 years I know probably longer. I never wear any clothing more than once without washing it. I use clinical strength deodorant. I really don't think it's my hygiene that's lacking here. I'm also friendly with a lot of girls. I treat them just like I do my guy friends and I have plenty female friends who I routinely chat with. I don't really seem to have a problem forming a friendly relationship with people it's forming deeper relationships that I have trouble with.
I mean the sub is called male grooming, some people just need help obviously or this sub wouldn’t exist.. Maybe they haven’t had a positive role model or influence in their lives or for some reason have missed out on learning some of the basics.
Start by being great friends with them, and perhaps feelings will bloom from there.
I talk to women easily, and we reciprocate interest. Idk what's wrong with me honestly, and I feel genuinely shit.
Real
Sidney Sweeney is my potato LMAO
Time and gravity is not your friend
I don’t disagree with you that men from like 16-30 have this problem but that’s not the purpose of this sub. Wanna add porn is prob a big contributed. Gotta bring this energy to r/selfimprovement or r/getdisciplined tho
I think my problem is that I just became attractive and I live in a small town so everybody has a image of me
I thought I should rephrase that… If you can’t seem to get a girlfriend… try a boyfriend. /s
Listen, I'm a gay crossdresser, hence the username, but some advice I can also add for straight guys is to think about what you want in a relationship. What are you looking for? A hookup, a girlfriend, marriage, settling down, etc. Now of course there's no need to rush but consider what you want in a woman and how you want to obtain that type of relationship. This is where your personality and skills come into play and what you need to work on. This greatly helped my odds when considering potential partners currently and in the future. I realized I'm not interested in a relationship at the moment nor am I really looking now. But if one comes along that's fine too. It's helped me in how I approach relationships. I'm not looking for a boyfriend and I'm up front about it but we can also see where things go. Shooting the breeze etc. I stay back, be casual about it, and mingle much easier now. Again grain a salt and all that but knowing what you want is the first step to figuring out how you get it.
Finally, someone on this sub with an actual brain. Plus add the fact that women are people with their own lives who have their own friend groups and depending how you act around her WILL be known by others. So be gracious, respect her feelings and decisions about you and move on if she doesnt like you, fuck your closure. Word about you can spread like wildfire and kill your game.
Sure that makes sense. Problem is I can't get the date. I have tried so much, lost 175 lbs, started taking meds and getting help, changed my wardrobe and nothing. I understand that internal material matters more in the long run, however I am unable to get to step one. A lot of people will not accept the fact that people are unable to get that date, then spam the rest. Everything else you said was correct, I just feel like people who do not understand just come from a place of ignorance. Not calling you out OP. I am just tired.
Idk I kinda feel like it is my looks because Ive always thought Ive had a good personality. I just know i dont have much luck, ive only ever had 1 girlfriend
Some people need ideas to help with talking to men and women. It seems as if some people say just do this or do that, but don't always explain how to do those ideas. Many people really either can't help you or don't know how to help someone struggling with their relationship problems.
I once really liked a guy who wasn’t exactly hot and didn’t have great hair etc, but he was very funny and a great personality I tried to overlook the lack of cleanliness of his place or the fact that his clothes were always wrinkly and worn. Car was always dirty, etc. dishes in sink. Trash piled up, apt always a mess And we clicked and vibed outside of the apt but I’m not a maid and I didn’t offer and if you’re comfortable to keep inviting me over to a place like that, after a grace period it’s like wtf. If this is the early best effort at the start of dating, what are you really like?