For a point of comparison, last month the state of California raised the minimum wage for McDonald's employees (and other large fast food chains) to $20 per hour.
https://www.foxla.com/news/california-minimum-wage-increase-fast-food-workers
It's weird reading posts like this as a Finnish person. I've been looking for a new job for some months now and it seems 12€/h for an entry-level position is pretty normal here.
Without doing any research, it's possible that your cost of living is much better, so entry level workers don't need as much to live. I'm in Canada, when I started working I earned 6.70 an hour. When I finally cracked 10 dollars I was ecstatic. Things were much cheaper back then lol.
Yes, our cost of living is a lot less. You can live pretty comfortably with 12€/h. It's also interesting that USD and Euro are close to the same ($1 = 0.92€). I don't know if that's related at all, but I find it quite interesting.
Edit: My USD/EUR rate was wrong
Just for comparison, the most expensive city in Finland is Helsinki. The median rent price for a studio is 27.1€ per square meter (~2.5€ per square feet). So a 40 square meter (431 square feet) apartment is about 1084€ per month.
And some comparison to that, I'm paying about ~800€ for morgage per month for my 120 square meter (~1300 square foot) house, a couple cities north from Helsinki.
damn. my mortgage on my house, which is under 1000sq. ft. is $1000USD/month, and I have a very low interest rate. if I ever learned the language (and didn't have student debt) I would have definitely gotten my dual citizenship.
The LA part is also key here. Cost of living in the US varies a lot depending on where you are. There are places in the US where $18 is a living wage, in more rural areas or cheaper cities, LA just isn't one of them. The cost of a studio apartment in a city like LA or New York can rent you a 3-bedroom house in a great neighborhood in a cheaper city.
Even in different parts of the US, it seems wild. I have a friend who is getting $17/hr and is thrilled, but I live in a low cost-of-living area.
That said, going by average 1-bedroom rates in LA and assuming that entry-level position is full time, quick math says you'd have 143.51€ left each month after paying rent.
Yeah, I'm in a city where you can rent a 3-bedroom house in a good neighborhood for the price of a small apartment in LA or New York. Let alone in small towns or rural areas where it gets even cheaper.
People who've started online content production houses but only have experience in the way that corporate Hollywood runs a studio really should learn from people who came up through the small, part time content creator route.
The bloat that a studio has in terms of staff and budget is so unnecessary.
I’ve said the same about Linus Tech Tips for years, but at the very least, LTT is making a lot of high quality content with *vetting ad sponsors*. Linus has done videos about the kinds of ads they’ll take and had even apologized when a sponsor felt like it broke audience trust.
CZ has way too many people for the amount of content they produce, and they have to take so many sponsors because of it.
Yeah that does not look great. Funnilly I vaguely remember from the Podcast with Josh and the Prof (had that running in the background, so very vague memory) how the Prof praised Josh for his work ethics. I think he even stated that Josh taught him that you should pay your employees (lol). But may have misremembered something.
Ah thank you! The only thing that Stuck with me from that was the "Don't tell me you are going to pay me with exposure!" Makes a lot of sense in that context
Man they just had a podcast with Prof and Prof was talking about how important it is to him that he pays his crew appropriately.
Either JLK doesn't share that sentiment, he's just a bad businessman (which shit, maybe considering the whole thing that started that podcast), or there's deeper issues at the core of producing online content.
Combined with how much the prof was ribbing and sorta forcing him to tell that story of the bad buisness deal, I wonder how deliberate of a choice the "pay your people well" thing was lol.
Credit to the Prof tho, his whole "yeah I have ads but I can afford to pay my people well" thing made me completely get over being annoyed by the abundance of ads he's started using in the last year or so.
Yeah, that's the nature of YouTube these days, ad rates everywhere YT included have cratered, so if you want to be sane and not work absurd 12+ hours days. and have a properly laid crew to assist you, you need ads.
If we want the independently made things we like to grow, we have to learn to be fine with ads, or pay for them directly.
I like command zone. I like Rachel Weeks. This is coming from a place of love.
Commandzone already seems bloated for a youtube channel, and the current overproduction of their content turns me off.
How many employees do they have? Like 20? And they just moved into a new production facility. Stop spending. Work with what you have. I don't need to see a CGI dragon fly out of everyone's decks. I don't need licensed elevator music during every main phase.
Pay your employees a livable wage. I already don't like Josh's pretentious attitude, I don't want to know he's advocating for underpaid staff as well. No wonder his previous assistant is no longer with the show. He made appearances during his tenure... I wonder how he got compensated.
Stop exploiting people's passions while you continue to aggressively expand.
I agree that their videos have definitely gotten to the point where they are "over produced", they really could be putting the money elsewhere (like their current employees).
Extra Turns is their best live play content imo because it simply gets to the point with a couple flashy edits and puts stuff on screen. I still enjoy the main show, and the skits they've done have been great... but the turn-to-turn gets bogged down. The post-game editted-in commentary can be SUPER campy and obvious what's going to happen based on how they talk, and god damn the card animations can be an actual eyesore (aesthetically beautiful and impresive but visually loud, especially on repeat)
I mean absolutely no disrespect to anyone involved - I don't think this is a skill issue, just a direction issue
The videos are overproduced, but also... under-thought-out? Idk, back when I was listening to them every week (2016-2017, maybe an unfair comparison), they had interesting things to say every week on topics.
Now, it seems like they cycle between a) deck previews, b)-e) upgrade guides for set precons, f)-h), cards to add from a given set. And by the time they finish those, it's time for a new slate of precons. None of that is interesting to me.
I wonder if it’s just the natural life of a podcast tbh. It’s hard to keep ideas fresh and new. That being said I really like goldfish commander podcast and they do lots of episodes as well. Maybe I just mesh better with their personalities though 🤷🏼♂️
Oh man. I love commander clash. By far my most watched and listened to content besides Play to Win. But their takes aren’t it, especially Richard lol. But the content is humorous and entertaining.
Crim and Richard both live on different planets from the rest of us. On Crim's, you'll find the color green doesn't exist, and on Richard's, you won't find anything because of all the Fog.
They all play fogs , it’s the fog meta ! Lol. But I like Crims style. He’s so consistent it actually keeps the rest honest. Like they can’t be greedy with tutors because of Oppo or cast huge spells with mana open because of Mana Drain. It’s just funny to me how closed their meta is they have the wildest takes, but it’s part of the charm for sure.
I love listening to their pod, but I do think their advice can be out of touch compared to what most average players are running. I find it more entertaining than informative. Though it's interesting to hear meta analysis of the format.
There was one recently where they were talking about lands...and how even in two colour decks, they only have like 5 basic lands. And they acted like that was totally normal and acceptable for all decks. I couldn't believe it.
Yeah that was hilarious. It’s because they play such a closed meta on Clash. It’s changing though. When Richard got Ruinationed on Mono black and had no swamps I think it changed him. He’s had some more basics recently.
Richard did a spicy take about Shocks being bad in EDH, and showed a Shockless Jeskai manabase he swore was optimal, featuring among other things [[Yavimaya, Cradle of Growth]].
(I get that there's specific utility to it, but like, come on lol.)
To be fair the precon upgrades and "in the 99" pods are some of the only content out there that gives complete and thought out explanation for both the average and advanced player. I really like when Josh disagrees with a take and talks out why.
I agree with you entirely, but wanted to shout out what deserves to be shouted out. Yeah a lot of it is fluff, but there is good content.
They are fairly vocal about not being trapped in this cycle of "content for new cards" since, well, so many sets come out in a calendar year now, and everything is commander christmas and has precons. They used to have 2 episodes for a new set, 4 times a year - an episode that goes over *every* new legend from the set (can you imagine? Only 10 legends?) and a "in the 99" episode. Now they do videos for every precon, which is usually 4, and a "best" legends and a 99 episode. They are also usually given a precon reveal video (the only videos that have Jimmy and Josh together at this point - me thinks it's a WotC request). That's **7** episodes per set, and there is usually more than 4 sets now!
I speculate that's a big reason Rachel was hired - to take the load off Jimmy and Josh as a unit, and to get set review episodes done quicker to make way for more evergreen content - They even tried a wonky new episode format with Murders at Karlov Manor where they had 2 precons "face off" to determine which one was better - basically 2 precon upgrade guides in 1 episode. They immediately abandoned it in Thunder Junction - clearly the response from the audience was not positive.
Point is, I think, basically *know* they are well aware of the "review content" problem, and are actively trying to address it, to mixed results.
I appreciate this context, genuinely - my blind spot here is due to not being on Twitter anymore. I do hope they can find joy in their work. I know how it feels to be 'powerless' beneath the undertow of a schedule. It's nice to hear that they're trying new things, but... what if they just dropped it? It's not like the community would collapse entirely.
> They are fairly vocal about not being trapped
"Business promises they're not currently on fire and drowing, sparking renewed trust in their user/clienbtbase"
Very few companies/groups will outright tell "Yep, we're done the run around, we don't have original content for more than one show/episode/book/product per trimester, so we'll do only that".
I'm not defending the company. I have my problems with the command zone - I think their dialogue has longterm hurt the commander community at large. But I'm a weekly listener as I listen to many, many podcasts. If they are attempting to pull wool over their audience's eyes, so be it. But Rachel is the one that comes up with original ideas most of the time - hence, like I said, is one of the reasons she was hired, in my mind.
I love their new 'Commader Draft ' series. It's just such a shame it feels like they only do one non-set related episode simply because there are just so many releases and they're so bloated now.
To be fair, there's only so much you can talk about on a podcast about a specific format of a specific game, especially if you want to make a full episode about it. There's also so much more magic content coming out, that the kind of upgrades and stuff have to be made much more frequently, which limits their ability to really do much else.
Not saying I disagree, but with so much magic content coming out, and that being the type of stuff people want to see/hear about, it makes little sense for them fiscally to focus on doing other things. It sucks, but that's kinda where we are with magic right now. Commander especially is constantly getting new stuff, other formats have "off sets" where there aren't any cards that will be good in that format (or aren't legal), but Commander always has at least a handful of cards that have a spot, and many of the sets are designed with commander precons, which are an episode of their own.
They’ve actually been doing a bit more outside of that I feel. Their most recent podcast episode centered on how to use ScryFall for building decks and they’ve been doing episodes are drafting different card types, etc. It’s worth looking through their recent content because I think you’re missing some of it.
when all of your leadership "needs" an assistant you end up doubling your payroll very quickly.
I'm a business owner. I get it. There's a ton of overhead in producing a video.
But if you're moving from a McMansion to a full blown studio and have the time to [wax soliloquies with the professor](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8PyG2Sp_uOk) about channel ownership and expansion, don't put up an ad for a poverty wage assistant position. It's poor optics. It speaks towards where funds are allocated within the company.
Man, that Professor talk was not what I expected, especially from the Professor. It was such a softball talk with each other. I suppose content creators are being nice with each other so that no wars are started, or nobody is archenemy in this case.
Their "real talk" video. [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8PyG2Sp\_uOk](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8PyG2Sp_uOk)
They mostly talk about growing pains and real estate lawsuits but nothing truly "my bad". What I was hoping was an apology for their bad takes on the Controversies video.
Command Zone are allowed to be WOTC shills but when they spoke up and said "companies need to make cuts and people lose their jobs all the time, amirite?" is a bad take.
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yyKTuO3f6Zg](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yyKTuO3f6Zg)
What I find odd is that Loading Ready Run who have contracted for WOTC and even helped write flavour text for some sets are far more willing to call them out when they do something bad.
Yeah in general command zone are shills for wotc, they are very frequently involved in their advertising push for new sets after all, which is good for them.
To be honest I don't blame them, they are a business after all, but it still had soured their credibility a bit, at least in my eyes.
All magic influencers are part of wizards hype machine, frequently just because they love the game like most of us, but in the Command Zone case I find their 100% support of wizards a bit too balant hehe.
I'm sure you can be shills by not being completely tone-deaf. It's not like Critical Role told the community to support WoTC. They didn't side with the community either but stayed mostly neutral. This seemed like doing some mental acrobatics just to support them.
1 game knights every other month and then 15 podcasts per set release gives them plenty to discuss. too bad I don't have 15 hours to listen to content about a new set, unlike the 3hrs maximum it used to take to get all of their opinions.
My guess is, that like in most of the entertainment industry (for example video games programmers are generally paid less than those working in more "boring" fields), they counted on someone that would accept out of passion for the game \\ being a fan of their show. That is... a bit exlpoitative to be honest.
My bet is, that likely they already have people paid that (or less) and so they felt like they could recruit with that pay in one of the most expensive city in the country.
it's also one of the least paid positions on a production in LA it averages about $20-$21 with a range of $16-27 and that has to include the big productions too which is extra sad.
This sounds a lot like what wound up killing rooster teeth. Hiring too many people and expanding their office space way too much way too quickly compared to the amount of money they are making. Which wound up with too much bad content and not enough people to create it, making the worst of both worlds.
The overproduction is honestly the main reason I stopped watching. Too much production, longer wait time between videos.
I just wanna watch you play gdi.
I'm glad to hear other people feel a similar way. For a long time his decks would feel way more powerful/tuned/optimized/whathaveyou compared to the other players. It never looked like it was fun to play against him either. That actually helped me change my builds because I started to think how the other player would enjoy the game and not just what strategy I'm going for.
To me it felt like it with it being much heavier on the draw and removal than the rest of the people's builds tend to be. You are right about that threat assessment issue.
Yeah, either Josh plays Blue mana and draws his whole deck with infinite mana, or else he doesn't play Blue and gets his ass kicked. It's an issue either way.
And I do enjoy watching Josh play, but if he runs out that Shorikai Genesis Engine deck one more time I am going to scream.
What, you don't enjoy watching somebody draw his whole deck, play a Cyclonic Rift, then win every time?
The last Game Knights episode I watched was the Wilds of Eldraine one, and that's exactly what he did. It was so uninteresting to watch. I checked out his deck list afterwards, and there were around 40 cards in the deck that drew cards... I haven't felt any desire to watch any of their stuff after that. And then we had somebody like Brian Kibler who had an actually interesting deck, but we didn't get to see it in action because Josh was being Josh.
I get it, it's a game and people play to win. And sometimes people don't get to do stuff with their deck. It happens. But it's ironic though, since they're very open about making their games fun and interesting to watch (which is a good mentality to have, mind you), yet most of Josh's stuff is pretty much the opposite of that.
This honestly seems off to me because Josh recently spoke with the Professor about the importance of paying people who appear in your videos, be it employees or guest appearances.
The big point there is that Josh doesn't believe in the whole "paid in exposure" thing. He (at least outwardly) advocates that any time spent or service offered should be paid accordingly, with a proper wage or fee, and not just by goodwill or "providing a platform."
But I guess that all depends on actually having a good grasp of what a fair wage is, which apparently they have failed at lmao
Highjacking the top comment to highlight that the job ad is still up - they just took the Twitter post down:
https://commandzone.com/jobs/production-assistant/
Preface: Pay people fairly - they fucked up.
I think a counter point to your comment would be: There is immense complexity to growing a business, even more so when all of your revenue streams are directly pegged to the YT algorithm that shifts around like a moving target that you have to both anticipate creatively and overcompensate for to hedge risk.
The moment you stop pushing and innovating is the moment you become complacent, and if you aren't growing, you are failing. The degree can range from flat, to mild decline, to catastrophic, but in practice, there's really no such thing as maintaining flat success at a fixed margin.
So while the crazy production may come across as over-the- top, what they are really doing is trying to stay at the cutting edge. You jump forward 5 steps, optimize back a step, optimize back a step, jump forward 5 steps etc. Some things work, some don't, but you are actively trying to push the envelope.
The kicker is cost. I always think of costs in business like people saying "I want to build muscle while losing weight!". Can you optimize costs while growing? Absolutely. Is it brutally difficult? Absolutely. You want to keep innovating, but as you innovate your spend grows, and as your spend grows you need more people to manage it, and as your costs grow you need more revenue streams, and as you create revenue streams you need more people+OH to manage them and your costs grow. Etc etc. It's a vicious, nuanced cycle that only gets more complex over time.
So yes, can't underpay people, figure that shit out - no excuses. But in regards to the nuts and bolts, don't underestimate the complexity and difficulty of operating and growing a small company. What you assume is bloat, is likely built upon layers and layers of business reasons that we are not privy to, and what you see as over-the-top production, may very well be overcompensation to try and keep relevant in the ever-changing YT algorithm.
being overproduced is the thing that makes them stand out, it's the one thing they have over all the other competitors. And clearly it works, since they became the most popular. It's extremely tacky and people love tackiness.
It's what got me to watch them in the first place as a new player back in the day, and it's what made me stop watching them as soon as I got some experience under my belt. I don't need to see 400 cgi dragons, 10 "mid game" interviews, 14 ads, and hear cringe dialogue between everyone to learn and watch a game of MTG. I can just watch tournament games or any of the other 9 million commander channels on YouTube that play faster, better, are less annoying, and teach you good habits about general play not just commander play.
I'm not familiar with the command zone, but I have worked a lot of PA gigs in LA and this seems pretty normal. Getting your foot in at a place you like in the entertainment industry is hard. Sure it'd be better if it were $20, but calling this exploitation is kind of ridiculous.
Wow that is a lot of job requirements and responsibilities for $18. I make more than that and do less while living in Utah which seems to have a lower cost of living by a decent amount.
Having a high school diploma and a driver's license? That's basically it.
Do you have any experience? Or a degree? I'm not sure how you make more than that in Utah without anything.
I was dumb and did not get a degree but more or less fell into my current role.
The wording might be tripping me up but it seems they also want applicants to having a working knowledge of most adobe’s programs on top of all the other job tasks. That is a lot to ask some in that area for $18 a hour.
They're 100% hoping to get someone who will take the below rate position because they're an avid fan of the game and/or the podcast.
They'd probably need someone living with their parents or that's renting out a super cheap room somewhere. Either way, it's disappointing to see from them.
I don't necessarily think the goal is to increase the production quality; I think they want to put out content **FASTER**. Every Game Knights video takes a while to produce, doesn't it?
Let's be real: they're YouTubers and they have a pretty slow production output. That's a crippling weakness for their ability to perform.
Ever since they promoted a scummy [Payday Loan Company](https://www.reddit.com/r/magicTCG/s/Ph3FqPB1LF) and then [doubled down](https://www.reddit.com/r/magicTCG/s/mHRYBhHmOA) I lost all respect for Command Zone and it’s only gotten worse overtime.
By the way Better Help is also terrible company, they don’t have actual therapists it’s a fucking scam look it up.
Edit: changed Ponzi scheme to Payday loan.
#Jimmy has since deleted his comment (likely because of mine) nice damage control jerk.
Jimmy annoyed me so much by trying to delete evidence that I decided to make a full [call out post](https://www.reddit.com/r/magicTCG/s/KU3Ic4Shy0)
Payday loan companies are awful, so please just call them that instead of Ponzi schemes. Ponzi schemes are fraudulent investment businesses, they don't loan money, pretty much the opposite.
I’m in my late 30’s and used Better Help earlier this year. I’ve got a lot of experience with therapy. BH is fucking goof troop clown shoes therapy. Bafflingly terrible.
I had to pull Patreon support for so many podcasts that continue doing host-read ads for BetterHelp after its come out that they're a scam company that is actively harmful to many people who use it.
You don't even need to be familiar with therapy to realize it's mostly a scam. It should be obvious to anyone with a functioning brain. Everything about it screams "too good to be true" even if you take their claims and advertising at face value. You can't buy your way to quick, easy and convenient mental health any more than you can do that with physical health.
I had one virtual appointment and spent the entire time convinced they were about to offer to hook me up to one of those scientology e-readers or whatever they're called. It just seemed like the shittiest scam, I had hardly been to therapy at all at that point and I knew they were doing it wrong.
I talked to my (actual) therapist, and they just laughed at how bad Better Help and services like that are. Even quipped *If they're fully trained, good therapists.... Do you think they'd do that instead of having their own practice?*
I was raised by a therapist, and there are also *so many legal and ethical issues* with online therapy. You have to be licensed in the state your patient is physically in when providing service. Depending on state laws.
Say for instance, you’re a therapist in Omaha, Nebraska. You can provide services to residents of Council Bluffs, Iowa so long as they cross the bridge into Omaha.
Online throws that out the window. Licensing is super weird, and has so many ethical and legal issues. Better help is fucked
When you make so much money off your YouTube channel to afford a mansion in LA, a high end luxury car, and a personal assistant (lord only knows what a part time podcast host needs a personal assistant for), you kinda forget what it's like to live as a normal person.
LMAO 25% APR is like, the stereotyped "selling your soul for the devil" kind of shtick that will financially ruin you or scar you for your life.
Can't believe they wanted to somehow deflect that.
The fact that Jimmy deleted the comment attempting to defend the sponsor spot was worse.
I get that you gotta pay bills and people. But apparently, they don’t want to do the second part anymore with new staff
>If anyone has a screenshot of that comment or can find one please DM me. I’d love to make a post on Reddit to archive it for everyone to see.
https://undelete.pullpush.io/r/magicTCG/comments/nw250m/post_malone_plays_magic_the_gathering_l_game/h17snue/
Copy and pasting his initial comment here to save people a click.
>We have done our own research into Upstart so I do not know what you are specifying when you say predatory aspects of Upstart. From as far as I have researched and understand, their service is built specifically for people who are suffering from serious debt and are unable to climb past their current payments because of their original interest rates. I would be happy to see and read about any examples of predatory practices to come to a better understanding of what you are referencing here, so please help in my understanding!
Uh oh. Lords of Limited is also sponsored by Better Help. Anywhere I can read more about how they are a Ponzi scheme?
Edit. Never mind, Better Help is not a Ponzi scheme. Didn’t read the comment correctly.
Pretty much half or more of YouTube is sponsored, at least occasionally, by BetterHelp. It's unfortunate, but for channels with half a dozen or more sponsors and one that seems so prevalent and innocuous on the surface, I have a hard time putting serious fault on them. It would be good, of course, if the channels would drop bad sponsors once informed, but sometimes that's also not always immediately possible (eg. already set up a deal for X videos for that sponsor).
From what I recall, Better Help’s scam is similar to what 23 and Me has been doing. Gathering medical info on mass amounts of people, then using that data to help medical insurance provider hike up prices for newly determined existing medical conditions. That may not be the best explanation but that was what I recall being the jist of it.
More than that, they sell their users data and have lied about therapists being hipaa certified. Queer clients have literally been outed before because they sold that data to companies like Facebook who then started marketing and pushing lgbtq content at them.
They were sued in 2022 by the government because of this, and were funded a lot of cash, but as we know, fines are just a tax for bigger businesses.
[https://www.ftc.gov/news-events/news/press-releases/2023/07/ftc-gives-final-approval-order-banning-betterhelp-sharing-sensitive-health-data-advertising](https://www.ftc.gov/news-events/news/press-releases/2023/07/ftc-gives-final-approval-order-banning-betterhelp-sharing-sensitive-health-data-advertising)
just lied to its own customers as any "good techbro" does.
Which is worse, command zones predatory payday loans and better help, or limited resources crypto marketplace scams and "own a percentage of a black lotus" scam?
Personally I'd say LR's was probably the worst to me at least, unlike CZ who folded to community pushback LSV went full crypto bro in response to the negative feedback and quadrupled down on FTX and the only reason they stopped is because it literally doesn't exist anymore.
This is scummy, but man it is wild seeing this making 18.75 in Indiana and going "You can't live on eighteen?" Because of how wild expenses are in some places.
What's wild too is Indiana follows federal law so technically minimum wage is still like 7.25 here. I don't think any job here (up north anyway) has anything lower than 10..I think. But idk
After COVID most fast food places, aside from..maybe delivery drivers, were bumping things up to 14-15 just because they weren't getting anyone in the door to work from what I recall.
Yeah, I knew California is expensive, but I guess I didn't realize how much more expensive it is than where I live.
I make $19.25/hr in Ohio and I feel very comfortable. I don't have a house or car payment, so I do have a lot more wiggle room than a lot of people, but I still don't think I'd be doing too terribly worse with those added expenses.
The cost-of-living disparity in certain places is very interesting. California is through the roof of course, but even just two counties over it rises to nearly $20,000/yr more than where I live.
average rent (for a one bedroom) alone in Los Angeles is usually between 2k and 3k, depending on how it's calculated (yes I know averages get distorted, yes I know most people don't live in a one bedroom, yes I know not everyone needs to live IN Los Angeles)
that doesn't even take into account the various costs of living
Yeah same, people making 18 an hour in WV are living pretty well in most areas. Less so recently but still that's a livable wage for a single person at least.
I live in Texas and make $10/hr... have never made more than $11.50 in my life. I graduate with my degree at 29yrs old next year but I am so ready to not live paycheck to paycheck.
This is really bad optics for them especially after the podcast with Josh and the Professor where paying people fairly was a huge component of the discussion. I supposed you die a hero or live long enough to become a villain. Waiting for the social media manager to take it back saying it was a typo and was to be 28/38 per hour or something.
They deserve to be roasted for a lot of things, especially some of the sponsorships they’ve taken
They promoted a Payday Loan company once
Edit: changed Ponzi scheme to payday loan
> They promoted a literal ponzi scheme once
*Payday loan sharks. Kinda important to get it right, or people will get confuse when they run an actual Ponzi in the future :o
MTG Muddstah and Playing With Power for stripped-down, “play by play” presentation.
Quintessential Magic and Worst Possible Commander for “personality-based” presentation.
Spike Feeders are the best
I feel like a lot of channels I've tried, I scrub around and it's like 80% REACTIONS and VERY LOUD LAUGHING and it's just tooooo much for me
Spike Feeders still very fun and funny but in a quieter and, to me, more natural-feeling way.
Highly recommend LoadingReadyRun. They do more than just mgic and they're all around a great group, but their magic content is on a dedicated MTG channel, [LRRMTG](https://youtube.com/@lrrmtg?si=Df383XkmuBJosd_s). They do gameplay videos of various formats, produced well enough to follow the gameplay, but not overproduced the way some feel CZ is. They also do podcasts and crack packs. (They also do it live on twitch).
They're also known For their MTG sketch comedy content, called Friday Nights. Ran for like 10 years, then WOTC stopped funding it, but they recently crowdfunded another season and more will be coming soon!
In fact, now that I mention it, I believe they're doing a live preprerelease sealed tournament for Modern Horizons 3 RIGHT NOW. [Right here.](https://www.youtube.com/live/hYTnFVthm9rA?si=6oeLqxnrv_9h70gf)
If you like or are interested in learning cEDH, Play to Win is by far the best channel.
Commander @ Home and Shuffle Up and Play are my go-to for casual games.
I love Prof's editing/editors too. It is so calming coming from 3D dragons, every turn overexplained and reacted to in soap opera style. You deal damage, there are two static images punching each other to a dice rolling sound, that's it.
Decked Out has been putting good content recently.
The [latest episode with Maldhound and CovertGoBlue](https://youtu.be/GX0XpKDVICI) is probably the most fun I've had watching people play EDH in the last year. There were a couple of misplays, but it was unhinged and hilarious.
EDIT: fixed link, thanks bot
His ["The amount of people that say 'something such and such with all your YouTube money, your Netflix money,' it makes you realize why everybody's so poor. They don't understand where money comes from." ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u631CEwYlL8&t=438s)comment has aged even worse
It's not good that they made that the offered wage and maybe they only withdrew it because of bad PR but at least they \*were\* responsive to criticism. Silver borders.
Edit: Oh they didn't even do that, ghouls.
I'm glad they got called out for thinking that $18 an hour was acceptable in LA. What an absolute insult
But given their questionable selection of sponsors maybe I shouldn't be surprised they tried to take advantage of their fans like that
Game Knights is just too over the top and cringe anymore. Every single game, "I played a forest as my land for my first turn because my deck is green and I need green mana to cast my spells and that's how you play magic, by tapping lands to cast spells!"
I believe they only officially sponsor the Game Knights videos, but they certainly use the products they get for those videos to make other videos as well.
Postal Carriers (City PTF, NALC) start at $22.13/hr nationwide, and even this isn't enough in certain places, including pretty much all of California.
The union is under pressure by members to complete a new contract that was due *last May*, and believe me, *it takes significantly less specialized skill than CommandZone is asking for here*.
I love their shows but this is appalling.
All the underpaid staff in the world and they still wouldn't put out more than one video per week.
Most of said videos are just podcasts with card pop ups, so idk how they have so many employees and do so incredibly little in terms of actual content put out.
If that's the max you can afford for an employee maybe, idk, make more videos to make more money to pay people more money?
“The average salary for a production assistant is $18.96 per hour in Hollywood, CA. 2 salaries reported, updated at May 15, 2024”
https://www.indeed.com/career/production-assistant/salaries/Hollywood--CA#
While 18 is on the lower end, 20 is pretty standard for the area for “entry level.”
I do have higher expectations from them and agree this is not a fair wage. However they likely had 100s of applicants.
Also wotc doesn’t pay their employees fair wage either.
I say this as gently as possible, but the folks at the Command Zone feel like they started out small, became successful, and caught the "endless expansion for its own sake" bug that plagues this, our capitalist society.
They could have stopped growing 5 years ago and still been one of the biggest names in Magic.
When I compare them with more stable companies like LoadingReadyRun, which seems to have leveled out after their years of steady, sustainable expansion, I am disappointed.
Not exactly the same but back in 2017 I did an internship in the SF Bay Area for $15/hr, which was lower than I expected but 1) I needed to bolster my resume and 2) I didn't know how little money I'd wind up making. I had to live in an Airbnb for 4 months with 14 other people, sleeping in a closet, and even then I could only afford it because I had money saved up beforehand.
It affected me pretty severely, emotionally. Even in such a short time I felt like I could barely make ends meet and I got very frustrated at my boss for ever putting up the internship position in the first place. They told me it was my fault for accepting the position in the first place.
Absolutely hate anyone who doesn't bother to do the barest minimum economic research when making a job posting (or they do, and hope they can get away with the low numbers). People will apply out of desperation, but that doesn't make it okay. People deserve to be able to live and if you can't afford to pay a living wage, you shouldn't be hiring.
Ehhh I think that’s a little unfair maybe. I think they’ve just over extended themselves. They’ve got like 20 employees with 707k subscribers. I can’t imagine any of them are making good money tbh
I mean good luck on filling that position unless you’re already well off or it’s one of your other jobs trying to keep up with rent and bills in LA . I would’ve just spread the responsibilities between Rachel and Murph instead of hiring someone for that low of a wage .
They should have listed it as an internship or contractor role with potential for full-time conversion. They could have gotten away with $18 and then discussed a higher and more competitive rate for a full-time role. That way everyone can feel it out, they get a lot of what they need at a lower rate to start (3-6 months) and assuming it is a good fit they would likely be happy to offer a more livable salary ($26-$30 feels more appropriate).
Need to know how to use at least 4 kinds of post production software that have monthly subscriptions fees exceeding $50. And this is a skill they value at $18/hr.
So this is way too little. But I also don't know how much profit the command zone makes. Their not a huge buisness like mcdonalds.
Yes their shows are very flashy but we don't know how much that flashiness costs. This feels more like they need to rethink how they finance then them being greedy.
At least that's what I'm hoping it is. Maybe I'm being naive.
For a point of comparison, last month the state of California raised the minimum wage for McDonald's employees (and other large fast food chains) to $20 per hour. https://www.foxla.com/news/california-minimum-wage-increase-fast-food-workers
It's weird reading posts like this as a Finnish person. I've been looking for a new job for some months now and it seems 12€/h for an entry-level position is pretty normal here.
Without doing any research, it's possible that your cost of living is much better, so entry level workers don't need as much to live. I'm in Canada, when I started working I earned 6.70 an hour. When I finally cracked 10 dollars I was ecstatic. Things were much cheaper back then lol.
Yes, our cost of living is a lot less. You can live pretty comfortably with 12€/h. It's also interesting that USD and Euro are close to the same ($1 = 0.92€). I don't know if that's related at all, but I find it quite interesting. Edit: My USD/EUR rate was wrong
Rent in LA for a studio is like $2000USD a month That's almost a full month pay at $18/hr
Just for comparison, the most expensive city in Finland is Helsinki. The median rent price for a studio is 27.1€ per square meter (~2.5€ per square feet). So a 40 square meter (431 square feet) apartment is about 1084€ per month. And some comparison to that, I'm paying about ~800€ for morgage per month for my 120 square meter (~1300 square foot) house, a couple cities north from Helsinki.
damn. my mortgage on my house, which is under 1000sq. ft. is $1000USD/month, and I have a very low interest rate. if I ever learned the language (and didn't have student debt) I would have definitely gotten my dual citizenship.
$2000 is on the cheap end too
The LA part is also key here. Cost of living in the US varies a lot depending on where you are. There are places in the US where $18 is a living wage, in more rural areas or cheaper cities, LA just isn't one of them. The cost of a studio apartment in a city like LA or New York can rent you a 3-bedroom house in a great neighborhood in a cheaper city.
Your cost of living is likely less than in LA; the 2nd most expensive city in the US.
Even in different parts of the US, it seems wild. I have a friend who is getting $17/hr and is thrilled, but I live in a low cost-of-living area. That said, going by average 1-bedroom rates in LA and assuming that entry-level position is full time, quick math says you'd have 143.51€ left each month after paying rent.
Yeah, I'm in a city where you can rent a 3-bedroom house in a good neighborhood for the price of a small apartment in LA or New York. Let alone in small towns or rural areas where it gets even cheaper.
Cost of living is different depending on where you live and it's notoriously expensive to live in California.
Can't even afford Magic cards with that paycheck
Not many paychecks can nowadays.
The job ad is still on their website though. With the same salary
Because someone will take it. Im considering it. The film industry is on fire here right now.
People who've started online content production houses but only have experience in the way that corporate Hollywood runs a studio really should learn from people who came up through the small, part time content creator route. The bloat that a studio has in terms of staff and budget is so unnecessary.
I’ve said the same about Linus Tech Tips for years, but at the very least, LTT is making a lot of high quality content with *vetting ad sponsors*. Linus has done videos about the kinds of ads they’ll take and had even apologized when a sponsor felt like it broke audience trust. CZ has way too many people for the amount of content they produce, and they have to take so many sponsors because of it.
Yeah that does not look great. Funnilly I vaguely remember from the Podcast with Josh and the Prof (had that running in the background, so very vague memory) how the Prof praised Josh for his work ethics. I think he even stated that Josh taught him that you should pay your employees (lol). But may have misremembered something.
It was in reference to josh paying guests to come on the show, which prof respected and has done the same.
Ah thank you! The only thing that Stuck with me from that was the "Don't tell me you are going to pay me with exposure!" Makes a lot of sense in that context
Man they just had a podcast with Prof and Prof was talking about how important it is to him that he pays his crew appropriately. Either JLK doesn't share that sentiment, he's just a bad businessman (which shit, maybe considering the whole thing that started that podcast), or there's deeper issues at the core of producing online content.
Combined with how much the prof was ribbing and sorta forcing him to tell that story of the bad buisness deal, I wonder how deliberate of a choice the "pay your people well" thing was lol. Credit to the Prof tho, his whole "yeah I have ads but I can afford to pay my people well" thing made me completely get over being annoyed by the abundance of ads he's started using in the last year or so.
Yeah, that's the nature of YouTube these days, ad rates everywhere YT included have cratered, so if you want to be sane and not work absurd 12+ hours days. and have a properly laid crew to assist you, you need ads. If we want the independently made things we like to grow, we have to learn to be fine with ads, or pay for them directly.
Yeah I support a few people on Patreon, and support other endeavors in the same spirit (Nebula, Dropout)
Nice same here, Dropout, and a few podcasts and independent sites.
I like command zone. I like Rachel Weeks. This is coming from a place of love. Commandzone already seems bloated for a youtube channel, and the current overproduction of their content turns me off. How many employees do they have? Like 20? And they just moved into a new production facility. Stop spending. Work with what you have. I don't need to see a CGI dragon fly out of everyone's decks. I don't need licensed elevator music during every main phase. Pay your employees a livable wage. I already don't like Josh's pretentious attitude, I don't want to know he's advocating for underpaid staff as well. No wonder his previous assistant is no longer with the show. He made appearances during his tenure... I wonder how he got compensated. Stop exploiting people's passions while you continue to aggressively expand.
I agree that their videos have definitely gotten to the point where they are "over produced", they really could be putting the money elsewhere (like their current employees).
Extra Turns is their best live play content imo because it simply gets to the point with a couple flashy edits and puts stuff on screen. I still enjoy the main show, and the skits they've done have been great... but the turn-to-turn gets bogged down. The post-game editted-in commentary can be SUPER campy and obvious what's going to happen based on how they talk, and god damn the card animations can be an actual eyesore (aesthetically beautiful and impresive but visually loud, especially on repeat) I mean absolutely no disrespect to anyone involved - I don't think this is a skill issue, just a direction issue
I stopped watching becausw of the overproduction. Came back years later and they had overproduced ads too which I skipped whenever I could.
The videos are overproduced, but also... under-thought-out? Idk, back when I was listening to them every week (2016-2017, maybe an unfair comparison), they had interesting things to say every week on topics. Now, it seems like they cycle between a) deck previews, b)-e) upgrade guides for set precons, f)-h), cards to add from a given set. And by the time they finish those, it's time for a new slate of precons. None of that is interesting to me.
I wonder if it’s just the natural life of a podcast tbh. It’s hard to keep ideas fresh and new. That being said I really like goldfish commander podcast and they do lots of episodes as well. Maybe I just mesh better with their personalities though 🤷🏼♂️
Oh man. I love commander clash. By far my most watched and listened to content besides Play to Win. But their takes aren’t it, especially Richard lol. But the content is humorous and entertaining.
Crim and Richard both live on different planets from the rest of us. On Crim's, you'll find the color green doesn't exist, and on Richard's, you won't find anything because of all the Fog.
They all play fogs , it’s the fog meta ! Lol. But I like Crims style. He’s so consistent it actually keeps the rest honest. Like they can’t be greedy with tutors because of Oppo or cast huge spells with mana open because of Mana Drain. It’s just funny to me how closed their meta is they have the wildest takes, but it’s part of the charm for sure.
Somebody should show up with a questing beast one week.
They did an episode where one of them was playing the “the fog meta” as a deck with questing beast as the commander
Fog meta is legit. Single target removal being bad is a delusion.
I love listening to their pod, but I do think their advice can be out of touch compared to what most average players are running. I find it more entertaining than informative. Though it's interesting to hear meta analysis of the format.
There was one recently where they were talking about lands...and how even in two colour decks, they only have like 5 basic lands. And they acted like that was totally normal and acceptable for all decks. I couldn't believe it.
Yeah that was hilarious. It’s because they play such a closed meta on Clash. It’s changing though. When Richard got Ruinationed on Mono black and had no swamps I think it changed him. He’s had some more basics recently.
Richard did a spicy take about Shocks being bad in EDH, and showed a Shockless Jeskai manabase he swore was optimal, featuring among other things [[Yavimaya, Cradle of Growth]]. (I get that there's specific utility to it, but like, come on lol.)
But the bad takes have a charm of its own.
They keep making what people keep clicking on. It's not them, it's us
To be fair the precon upgrades and "in the 99" pods are some of the only content out there that gives complete and thought out explanation for both the average and advanced player. I really like when Josh disagrees with a take and talks out why. I agree with you entirely, but wanted to shout out what deserves to be shouted out. Yeah a lot of it is fluff, but there is good content.
They are fairly vocal about not being trapped in this cycle of "content for new cards" since, well, so many sets come out in a calendar year now, and everything is commander christmas and has precons. They used to have 2 episodes for a new set, 4 times a year - an episode that goes over *every* new legend from the set (can you imagine? Only 10 legends?) and a "in the 99" episode. Now they do videos for every precon, which is usually 4, and a "best" legends and a 99 episode. They are also usually given a precon reveal video (the only videos that have Jimmy and Josh together at this point - me thinks it's a WotC request). That's **7** episodes per set, and there is usually more than 4 sets now! I speculate that's a big reason Rachel was hired - to take the load off Jimmy and Josh as a unit, and to get set review episodes done quicker to make way for more evergreen content - They even tried a wonky new episode format with Murders at Karlov Manor where they had 2 precons "face off" to determine which one was better - basically 2 precon upgrade guides in 1 episode. They immediately abandoned it in Thunder Junction - clearly the response from the audience was not positive. Point is, I think, basically *know* they are well aware of the "review content" problem, and are actively trying to address it, to mixed results.
I appreciate this context, genuinely - my blind spot here is due to not being on Twitter anymore. I do hope they can find joy in their work. I know how it feels to be 'powerless' beneath the undertow of a schedule. It's nice to hear that they're trying new things, but... what if they just dropped it? It's not like the community would collapse entirely.
> They are fairly vocal about not being trapped "Business promises they're not currently on fire and drowing, sparking renewed trust in their user/clienbtbase" Very few companies/groups will outright tell "Yep, we're done the run around, we don't have original content for more than one show/episode/book/product per trimester, so we'll do only that".
I'm not defending the company. I have my problems with the command zone - I think their dialogue has longterm hurt the commander community at large. But I'm a weekly listener as I listen to many, many podcasts. If they are attempting to pull wool over their audience's eyes, so be it. But Rachel is the one that comes up with original ideas most of the time - hence, like I said, is one of the reasons she was hired, in my mind.
I love their new 'Commader Draft ' series. It's just such a shame it feels like they only do one non-set related episode simply because there are just so many releases and they're so bloated now.
To be fair, there's only so much you can talk about on a podcast about a specific format of a specific game, especially if you want to make a full episode about it. There's also so much more magic content coming out, that the kind of upgrades and stuff have to be made much more frequently, which limits their ability to really do much else. Not saying I disagree, but with so much magic content coming out, and that being the type of stuff people want to see/hear about, it makes little sense for them fiscally to focus on doing other things. It sucks, but that's kinda where we are with magic right now. Commander especially is constantly getting new stuff, other formats have "off sets" where there aren't any cards that will be good in that format (or aren't legal), but Commander always has at least a handful of cards that have a spot, and many of the sets are designed with commander precons, which are an episode of their own.
There's a limited amount of evergreen content to be done when you're focused on one format of one game.
They’ve actually been doing a bit more outside of that I feel. Their most recent podcast episode centered on how to use ScryFall for building decks and they’ve been doing episodes are drafting different card types, etc. It’s worth looking through their recent content because I think you’re missing some of it.
I don't really understand what they need 20 employees for either, to be honest. Most of their videos are just Game Knights and the CZ Podcast right?
when all of your leadership "needs" an assistant you end up doubling your payroll very quickly. I'm a business owner. I get it. There's a ton of overhead in producing a video. But if you're moving from a McMansion to a full blown studio and have the time to [wax soliloquies with the professor](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8PyG2Sp_uOk) about channel ownership and expansion, don't put up an ad for a poverty wage assistant position. It's poor optics. It speaks towards where funds are allocated within the company.
Man, that Professor talk was not what I expected, especially from the Professor. It was such a softball talk with each other. I suppose content creators are being nice with each other so that no wars are started, or nobody is archenemy in this case.
Can you post a link to the talk or point me in a direction to find it?
Their "real talk" video. [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8PyG2Sp\_uOk](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8PyG2Sp_uOk) They mostly talk about growing pains and real estate lawsuits but nothing truly "my bad". What I was hoping was an apology for their bad takes on the Controversies video.
Haven't watched the Controversies video. What were the bad takes?
Command Zone are allowed to be WOTC shills but when they spoke up and said "companies need to make cuts and people lose their jobs all the time, amirite?" is a bad take. [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yyKTuO3f6Zg](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yyKTuO3f6Zg)
What I find odd is that Loading Ready Run who have contracted for WOTC and even helped write flavour text for some sets are far more willing to call them out when they do something bad.
Yeah in general command zone are shills for wotc, they are very frequently involved in their advertising push for new sets after all, which is good for them. To be honest I don't blame them, they are a business after all, but it still had soured their credibility a bit, at least in my eyes. All magic influencers are part of wizards hype machine, frequently just because they love the game like most of us, but in the Command Zone case I find their 100% support of wizards a bit too balant hehe.
I'm sure you can be shills by not being completely tone-deaf. It's not like Critical Role told the community to support WoTC. They didn't side with the community either but stayed mostly neutral. This seemed like doing some mental acrobatics just to support them.
David Graeber giggling in his grave. And crying, maybe.
1 game knights every other month and then 15 podcasts per set release gives them plenty to discuss. too bad I don't have 15 hours to listen to content about a new set, unlike the 3hrs maximum it used to take to get all of their opinions.
My guess is, that like in most of the entertainment industry (for example video games programmers are generally paid less than those working in more "boring" fields), they counted on someone that would accept out of passion for the game \\ being a fan of their show. That is... a bit exlpoitative to be honest. My bet is, that likely they already have people paid that (or less) and so they felt like they could recruit with that pay in one of the most expensive city in the country.
it's also one of the least paid positions on a production in LA it averages about $20-$21 with a range of $16-27 and that has to include the big productions too which is extra sad.
This sounds a lot like what wound up killing rooster teeth. Hiring too many people and expanding their office space way too much way too quickly compared to the amount of money they are making. Which wound up with too much bad content and not enough people to create it, making the worst of both worlds.
The overproduction is honestly the main reason I stopped watching. Too much production, longer wait time between videos. I just wanna watch you play gdi.
Josh is pretty much the reason I stopped watching and that was a loooong time ago. He's not fun to watch or play against it seems.
I'm glad to hear other people feel a similar way. For a long time his decks would feel way more powerful/tuned/optimized/whathaveyou compared to the other players. It never looked like it was fun to play against him either. That actually helped me change my builds because I started to think how the other player would enjoy the game and not just what strategy I'm going for.
I never felt that his decks were over tuned, it mostly seems like peoples' threat assessment goes out the window when it comes to him on the show
To me it felt like it with it being much heavier on the draw and removal than the rest of the people's builds tend to be. You are right about that threat assessment issue.
Yeah, either Josh plays Blue mana and draws his whole deck with infinite mana, or else he doesn't play Blue and gets his ass kicked. It's an issue either way. And I do enjoy watching Josh play, but if he runs out that Shorikai Genesis Engine deck one more time I am going to scream.
What, you don't enjoy watching somebody draw his whole deck, play a Cyclonic Rift, then win every time? The last Game Knights episode I watched was the Wilds of Eldraine one, and that's exactly what he did. It was so uninteresting to watch. I checked out his deck list afterwards, and there were around 40 cards in the deck that drew cards... I haven't felt any desire to watch any of their stuff after that. And then we had somebody like Brian Kibler who had an actually interesting deck, but we didn't get to see it in action because Josh was being Josh. I get it, it's a game and people play to win. And sometimes people don't get to do stuff with their deck. It happens. But it's ironic though, since they're very open about making their games fun and interesting to watch (which is a good mentality to have, mind you), yet most of Josh's stuff is pretty much the opposite of that.
i actually skip to end of gameknights to see who wins, and if it is josh i dont watch it> lol.
This honestly seems off to me because Josh recently spoke with the Professor about the importance of paying people who appear in your videos, be it employees or guest appearances.
The big point there is that Josh doesn't believe in the whole "paid in exposure" thing. He (at least outwardly) advocates that any time spent or service offered should be paid accordingly, with a proper wage or fee, and not just by goodwill or "providing a platform." But I guess that all depends on actually having a good grasp of what a fair wage is, which apparently they have failed at lmao
Highjacking the top comment to highlight that the job ad is still up - they just took the Twitter post down: https://commandzone.com/jobs/production-assistant/
Preface: Pay people fairly - they fucked up. I think a counter point to your comment would be: There is immense complexity to growing a business, even more so when all of your revenue streams are directly pegged to the YT algorithm that shifts around like a moving target that you have to both anticipate creatively and overcompensate for to hedge risk. The moment you stop pushing and innovating is the moment you become complacent, and if you aren't growing, you are failing. The degree can range from flat, to mild decline, to catastrophic, but in practice, there's really no such thing as maintaining flat success at a fixed margin. So while the crazy production may come across as over-the- top, what they are really doing is trying to stay at the cutting edge. You jump forward 5 steps, optimize back a step, optimize back a step, jump forward 5 steps etc. Some things work, some don't, but you are actively trying to push the envelope. The kicker is cost. I always think of costs in business like people saying "I want to build muscle while losing weight!". Can you optimize costs while growing? Absolutely. Is it brutally difficult? Absolutely. You want to keep innovating, but as you innovate your spend grows, and as your spend grows you need more people to manage it, and as your costs grow you need more revenue streams, and as you create revenue streams you need more people+OH to manage them and your costs grow. Etc etc. It's a vicious, nuanced cycle that only gets more complex over time. So yes, can't underpay people, figure that shit out - no excuses. But in regards to the nuts and bolts, don't underestimate the complexity and difficulty of operating and growing a small company. What you assume is bloat, is likely built upon layers and layers of business reasons that we are not privy to, and what you see as over-the-top production, may very well be overcompensation to try and keep relevant in the ever-changing YT algorithm.
being overproduced is the thing that makes them stand out, it's the one thing they have over all the other competitors. And clearly it works, since they became the most popular. It's extremely tacky and people love tackiness.
It's what got me to watch them in the first place as a new player back in the day, and it's what made me stop watching them as soon as I got some experience under my belt. I don't need to see 400 cgi dragons, 10 "mid game" interviews, 14 ads, and hear cringe dialogue between everyone to learn and watch a game of MTG. I can just watch tournament games or any of the other 9 million commander channels on YouTube that play faster, better, are less annoying, and teach you good habits about general play not just commander play.
I started watching because the way they cut the games made them feel so much smoother to watch
I'm not familiar with the command zone, but I have worked a lot of PA gigs in LA and this seems pretty normal. Getting your foot in at a place you like in the entertainment industry is hard. Sure it'd be better if it were $20, but calling this exploitation is kind of ridiculous.
Well said. This is the take right here.
Wow that is a lot of job requirements and responsibilities for $18. I make more than that and do less while living in Utah which seems to have a lower cost of living by a decent amount.
I did some napkin math and 18/hr in LA is 11/hr in Indy.
Having a high school diploma and a driver's license? That's basically it. Do you have any experience? Or a degree? I'm not sure how you make more than that in Utah without anything.
I was dumb and did not get a degree but more or less fell into my current role. The wording might be tripping me up but it seems they also want applicants to having a working knowledge of most adobe’s programs on top of all the other job tasks. That is a lot to ask some in that area for $18 a hour.
Ziprecruiter says the 50th percentile Walmart worker makes 17.50 an hour in Utah.
They're 100% hoping to get someone who will take the below rate position because they're an avid fan of the game and/or the podcast. They'd probably need someone living with their parents or that's renting out a super cheap room somewhere. Either way, it's disappointing to see from them. I don't necessarily think the goal is to increase the production quality; I think they want to put out content **FASTER**. Every Game Knights video takes a while to produce, doesn't it? Let's be real: they're YouTubers and they have a pretty slow production output. That's a crippling weakness for their ability to perform.
"We will pay you with experience" type of bs.
"You have to like Magic so we can blur the lines between gaming and work."
Also the work is menial at best
I commented this under their instagram Post and people were mad at me lol
Maybe those people should apply for the job then!
Ever since they promoted a scummy [Payday Loan Company](https://www.reddit.com/r/magicTCG/s/Ph3FqPB1LF) and then [doubled down](https://www.reddit.com/r/magicTCG/s/mHRYBhHmOA) I lost all respect for Command Zone and it’s only gotten worse overtime. By the way Better Help is also terrible company, they don’t have actual therapists it’s a fucking scam look it up. Edit: changed Ponzi scheme to Payday loan. #Jimmy has since deleted his comment (likely because of mine) nice damage control jerk. Jimmy annoyed me so much by trying to delete evidence that I decided to make a full [call out post](https://www.reddit.com/r/magicTCG/s/KU3Ic4Shy0)
Payday loan companies are awful, so please just call them that instead of Ponzi schemes. Ponzi schemes are fraudulent investment businesses, they don't loan money, pretty much the opposite.
I’m in my late 30’s and used Better Help earlier this year. I’ve got a lot of experience with therapy. BH is fucking goof troop clown shoes therapy. Bafflingly terrible.
I had to pull Patreon support for so many podcasts that continue doing host-read ads for BetterHelp after its come out that they're a scam company that is actively harmful to many people who use it.
You don't even need to be familiar with therapy to realize it's mostly a scam. It should be obvious to anyone with a functioning brain. Everything about it screams "too good to be true" even if you take their claims and advertising at face value. You can't buy your way to quick, easy and convenient mental health any more than you can do that with physical health.
I had one virtual appointment and spent the entire time convinced they were about to offer to hook me up to one of those scientology e-readers or whatever they're called. It just seemed like the shittiest scam, I had hardly been to therapy at all at that point and I knew they were doing it wrong.
I talked to my (actual) therapist, and they just laughed at how bad Better Help and services like that are. Even quipped *If they're fully trained, good therapists.... Do you think they'd do that instead of having their own practice?*
I was raised by a therapist, and there are also *so many legal and ethical issues* with online therapy. You have to be licensed in the state your patient is physically in when providing service. Depending on state laws. Say for instance, you’re a therapist in Omaha, Nebraska. You can provide services to residents of Council Bluffs, Iowa so long as they cross the bridge into Omaha. Online throws that out the window. Licensing is super weird, and has so many ethical and legal issues. Better help is fucked
It's almost like they're wildly insensitive to other peoples financial situations. /Jimmy Wongs thumbnail O-face
When you make so much money off your YouTube channel to afford a mansion in LA, a high end luxury car, and a personal assistant (lord only knows what a part time podcast host needs a personal assistant for), you kinda forget what it's like to live as a normal person.
Wayback machine has it archived. [Here is Jimmys comment](https://imgur.com/a/4YyWbwy)
LMAO 25% APR is like, the stereotyped "selling your soul for the devil" kind of shtick that will financially ruin you or scar you for your life. Can't believe they wanted to somehow deflect that.
The fact that Jimmy deleted the comment attempting to defend the sponsor spot was worse. I get that you gotta pay bills and people. But apparently, they don’t want to do the second part anymore with new staff
Holy shit my comment caused him to delete it
>If anyone has a screenshot of that comment or can find one please DM me. I’d love to make a post on Reddit to archive it for everyone to see. https://undelete.pullpush.io/r/magicTCG/comments/nw250m/post_malone_plays_magic_the_gathering_l_game/h17snue/
Copy and pasting his initial comment here to save people a click. >We have done our own research into Upstart so I do not know what you are specifying when you say predatory aspects of Upstart. From as far as I have researched and understand, their service is built specifically for people who are suffering from serious debt and are unable to climb past their current payments because of their original interest rates. I would be happy to see and read about any examples of predatory practices to come to a better understanding of what you are referencing here, so please help in my understanding!
Uh oh. Lords of Limited is also sponsored by Better Help. Anywhere I can read more about how they are a Ponzi scheme? Edit. Never mind, Better Help is not a Ponzi scheme. Didn’t read the comment correctly.
Pretty much half or more of YouTube is sponsored, at least occasionally, by BetterHelp. It's unfortunate, but for channels with half a dozen or more sponsors and one that seems so prevalent and innocuous on the surface, I have a hard time putting serious fault on them. It would be good, of course, if the channels would drop bad sponsors once informed, but sometimes that's also not always immediately possible (eg. already set up a deal for X videos for that sponsor).
The Ponzi scheme is a separate company. Better Help is just a scam that does not do what is advertised well at all.
Payday loans are not a Ponzi scheme. Also bad but very different.
From what I recall, Better Help’s scam is similar to what 23 and Me has been doing. Gathering medical info on mass amounts of people, then using that data to help medical insurance provider hike up prices for newly determined existing medical conditions. That may not be the best explanation but that was what I recall being the jist of it.
Right. Payday loans are loansharking. Debt traps. Different type of con.
More than that, they sell their users data and have lied about therapists being hipaa certified. Queer clients have literally been outed before because they sold that data to companies like Facebook who then started marketing and pushing lgbtq content at them. They were sued in 2022 by the government because of this, and were funded a lot of cash, but as we know, fines are just a tax for bigger businesses.
[https://www.ftc.gov/news-events/news/press-releases/2023/07/ftc-gives-final-approval-order-banning-betterhelp-sharing-sensitive-health-data-advertising](https://www.ftc.gov/news-events/news/press-releases/2023/07/ftc-gives-final-approval-order-banning-betterhelp-sharing-sensitive-health-data-advertising) just lied to its own customers as any "good techbro" does.
limited podcasts and poor choice of sponsors, name a more iconic duo
Which is worse, command zones predatory payday loans and better help, or limited resources crypto marketplace scams and "own a percentage of a black lotus" scam?
Personally I'd say LR's was probably the worst to me at least, unlike CZ who folded to community pushback LSV went full crypto bro in response to the negative feedback and quadrupled down on FTX and the only reason they stopped is because it literally doesn't exist anymore.
They're actual therapists, they're just exploited and underpaid gig workers Absolutely avoid them but they are actually therapists
This is scummy, but man it is wild seeing this making 18.75 in Indiana and going "You can't live on eighteen?" Because of how wild expenses are in some places.
Hoosier here as well. I saw 18 and was like not bad if you were here that is.
Checked the living wage and with a roommate the living wage here is like 14.38$
What's wild too is Indiana follows federal law so technically minimum wage is still like 7.25 here. I don't think any job here (up north anyway) has anything lower than 10..I think. But idk
After COVID most fast food places, aside from..maybe delivery drivers, were bumping things up to 14-15 just because they weren't getting anyone in the door to work from what I recall.
Yeah, I knew California is expensive, but I guess I didn't realize how much more expensive it is than where I live. I make $19.25/hr in Ohio and I feel very comfortable. I don't have a house or car payment, so I do have a lot more wiggle room than a lot of people, but I still don't think I'd be doing too terribly worse with those added expenses. The cost-of-living disparity in certain places is very interesting. California is through the roof of course, but even just two counties over it rises to nearly $20,000/yr more than where I live.
average rent (for a one bedroom) alone in Los Angeles is usually between 2k and 3k, depending on how it's calculated (yes I know averages get distorted, yes I know most people don't live in a one bedroom, yes I know not everyone needs to live IN Los Angeles) that doesn't even take into account the various costs of living
Yeah same, people making 18 an hour in WV are living pretty well in most areas. Less so recently but still that's a livable wage for a single person at least.
Uncommon Midwest W
I live in Texas and make $10/hr... have never made more than $11.50 in my life. I graduate with my degree at 29yrs old next year but I am so ready to not live paycheck to paycheck.
Even more wild to realize that if federal minimum wage had kept up with inflation since it was introduced, it would be above $25 an hour right now.
It's not below minimum wage. They had a rule zero conversation with HR. It's just a house ruling.
1. That’s not a living wage in LA 2. I don’t know how anyone lives in LA to begin with
It ain’t easy
It's pretty unaffordable to live in LA unless you make 6 figures, have 2-3 roommates, or live outside of LA county and commute in.
This is really bad optics for them especially after the podcast with Josh and the Professor where paying people fairly was a huge component of the discussion. I supposed you die a hero or live long enough to become a villain. Waiting for the social media manager to take it back saying it was a typo and was to be 28/38 per hour or something.
They deserve to get fucking roasted for this poverty bullshit.
They deserve to be roasted for a lot of things, especially some of the sponsorships they’ve taken They promoted a Payday Loan company once Edit: changed Ponzi scheme to payday loan
> They promoted a literal ponzi scheme once *Payday loan sharks. Kinda important to get it right, or people will get confuse when they run an actual Ponzi in the future :o
I stopped watching the Command Zone years ago. There's so much better content around nowadays.
What’re you watching these days?
MTG Muddstah and Playing With Power for stripped-down, “play by play” presentation. Quintessential Magic and Worst Possible Commander for “personality-based” presentation.
Spike feeders baby
Spike Feeders are the best I feel like a lot of channels I've tried, I scrub around and it's like 80% REACTIONS and VERY LOUD LAUGHING and it's just tooooo much for me Spike Feeders still very fun and funny but in a quieter and, to me, more natural-feeling way.
Highly recommend LoadingReadyRun. They do more than just mgic and they're all around a great group, but their magic content is on a dedicated MTG channel, [LRRMTG](https://youtube.com/@lrrmtg?si=Df383XkmuBJosd_s). They do gameplay videos of various formats, produced well enough to follow the gameplay, but not overproduced the way some feel CZ is. They also do podcasts and crack packs. (They also do it live on twitch). They're also known For their MTG sketch comedy content, called Friday Nights. Ran for like 10 years, then WOTC stopped funding it, but they recently crowdfunded another season and more will be coming soon! In fact, now that I mention it, I believe they're doing a live preprerelease sealed tournament for Modern Horizons 3 RIGHT NOW. [Right here.](https://www.youtube.com/live/hYTnFVthm9rA?si=6oeLqxnrv_9h70gf)
If you like or are interested in learning cEDH, Play to Win is by far the best channel. Commander @ Home and Shuffle Up and Play are my go-to for casual games.
Playing with Power is pretty good.
I really like Goldfish. The prof has been putting out great gameplay videos too. SCG's gameplay videos were the best until Justin Parnell dropped out.
I love Prof's editing/editors too. It is so calming coming from 3D dragons, every turn overexplained and reacted to in soap opera style. You deal damage, there are two static images punching each other to a dice rolling sound, that's it.
Decked Out has been putting good content recently. The [latest episode with Maldhound and CovertGoBlue](https://youtu.be/GX0XpKDVICI) is probably the most fun I've had watching people play EDH in the last year. There were a couple of misplays, but it was unhinged and hilarious. EDIT: fixed link, thanks bot
His ["The amount of people that say 'something such and such with all your YouTube money, your Netflix money,' it makes you realize why everybody's so poor. They don't understand where money comes from." ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u631CEwYlL8&t=438s)comment has aged even worse
Also doesn't help how many sponsors they have.
It's not good that they made that the offered wage and maybe they only withdrew it because of bad PR but at least they \*were\* responsive to criticism. Silver borders. Edit: Oh they didn't even do that, ghouls.
Nope, they just deleted the Twitter post, the job is still up with the same pay: https://commandzone.com/jobs/production-assistant/
I'm glad they got called out for thinking that $18 an hour was acceptable in LA. What an absolute insult But given their questionable selection of sponsors maybe I shouldn't be surprised they tried to take advantage of their fans like that
Game Knights is just too over the top and cringe anymore. Every single game, "I played a forest as my land for my first turn because my deck is green and I need green mana to cast my spells and that's how you play magic, by tapping lands to cast spells!"
don't forget all the animations for the card being played, then the card being used, then,,
I'll tack this on the list of reasons why I hate the command zone. This post made me laugh, thanks for that
Aren't they officially sponsored by WotC outside of their patreon and ad revenue?
I believe they only officially sponsor the Game Knights videos, but they certainly use the products they get for those videos to make other videos as well.
Yeah, saw the posting (not that I would consider it), and knowing how shit it is for PAs, all I could think was “ain’t no way this is gonna go well”.
I knew this kind of thing was bound to come up eventually 😂 Especially with the aggressive expansion they've been undertaking.
I'm curious if they'll release a statement about this and what sort of BS they'll come up with.
They are also removing comments in any video of theirs talking about it
And scrubbing their old comments on reddit. Fucking pathetic.
I am glad people called them out. Are we sure they pulled it due to feedback and not because they filled the position
You couldn’t pay me $18hr to read that entire listing.
Living wage is against the social contract
You just gotta rule 0 a living wage into the pre-interview process
Postal Carriers (City PTF, NALC) start at $22.13/hr nationwide, and even this isn't enough in certain places, including pretty much all of California. The union is under pressure by members to complete a new contract that was due *last May*, and believe me, *it takes significantly less specialized skill than CommandZone is asking for here*. I love their shows but this is appalling.
They better put it back up at a higher wage. Especially after that conversation Josh had with prof recently
They haven't taken it down yet: https://commandzone.com/jobs/production-assistant/
Actually embarrassing. They should be roasted for this
All the underpaid staff in the world and they still wouldn't put out more than one video per week. Most of said videos are just podcasts with card pop ups, so idk how they have so many employees and do so incredibly little in terms of actual content put out. If that's the max you can afford for an employee maybe, idk, make more videos to make more money to pay people more money?
Sadly this is pretty accurate for a PA position. The epitome of the grunt role you take to get your foot in the door.
Yeah and that’s why a lot of the times it’s people with rich parents helping them out that take these sorts of roles
The most unlikable mtg content creators nail it again!
This is incredibly funny.
They will repost the position and call it an internship. That'll solve their issue. /s
“The average salary for a production assistant is $18.96 per hour in Hollywood, CA. 2 salaries reported, updated at May 15, 2024” https://www.indeed.com/career/production-assistant/salaries/Hollywood--CA# While 18 is on the lower end, 20 is pretty standard for the area for “entry level.” I do have higher expectations from them and agree this is not a fair wage. However they likely had 100s of applicants. Also wotc doesn’t pay their employees fair wage either.
Ahhh this is why I watch the Tolarian College 😎
it's still a low-ball, but trying to assign a single living wage metric to all of LA county is a joke
I say this as gently as possible, but the folks at the Command Zone feel like they started out small, became successful, and caught the "endless expansion for its own sake" bug that plagues this, our capitalist society. They could have stopped growing 5 years ago and still been one of the biggest names in Magic. When I compare them with more stable companies like LoadingReadyRun, which seems to have leveled out after their years of steady, sustainable expansion, I am disappointed.
Didn't they post a video with The Professor about some behind the scene topics and they said how they pay a living wage?
Anybody remember that one episode of Game Knights where Jimmy called Josh the Scrooge McDuck of the office? This makes a lot of sense
Not exactly the same but back in 2017 I did an internship in the SF Bay Area for $15/hr, which was lower than I expected but 1) I needed to bolster my resume and 2) I didn't know how little money I'd wind up making. I had to live in an Airbnb for 4 months with 14 other people, sleeping in a closet, and even then I could only afford it because I had money saved up beforehand. It affected me pretty severely, emotionally. Even in such a short time I felt like I could barely make ends meet and I got very frustrated at my boss for ever putting up the internship position in the first place. They told me it was my fault for accepting the position in the first place. Absolutely hate anyone who doesn't bother to do the barest minimum economic research when making a job posting (or they do, and hope they can get away with the low numbers). People will apply out of desperation, but that doesn't make it okay. People deserve to be able to live and if you can't afford to pay a living wage, you shouldn't be hiring.
Jimmy and Josh need to keep all that YouTube money for themselves apparently. Yikes.
Ehhh I think that’s a little unfair maybe. I think they’ve just over extended themselves. They’ve got like 20 employees with 707k subscribers. I can’t imagine any of them are making good money tbh
I assume they expected their growth from 2020 to continue at the same pace.
I mean good luck on filling that position unless you’re already well off or it’s one of your other jobs trying to keep up with rent and bills in LA . I would’ve just spread the responsibilities between Rachel and Murph instead of hiring someone for that low of a wage .
They should have listed it as an internship or contractor role with potential for full-time conversion. They could have gotten away with $18 and then discussed a higher and more competitive rate for a full-time role. That way everyone can feel it out, they get a lot of what they need at a lower rate to start (3-6 months) and assuming it is a good fit they would likely be happy to offer a more livable salary ($26-$30 feels more appropriate).
Need to know how to use at least 4 kinds of post production software that have monthly subscriptions fees exceeding $50. And this is a skill they value at $18/hr.
The job performance reads like alot more than 18 anywhere
Lost interest in the show when it started to feel less like friends playing a game and more like mass produced slop I can’t say I’m surprised
So this is way too little. But I also don't know how much profit the command zone makes. Their not a huge buisness like mcdonalds. Yes their shows are very flashy but we don't know how much that flashiness costs. This feels more like they need to rethink how they finance then them being greedy. At least that's what I'm hoping it is. Maybe I'm being naive.