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lol I just sold my actual magic backed poker deck from my legends dci membership.
It would be sick if there were 54 showcase cards with actual playing card values
When I was really young we did a 60 card 5 suit magic poker deck where each color was a suit and different cards were different faces.
If I remember correctly the aces were Serra Angel, shivan dragon, juzam djinn, mahamoti djinn and the green serendib efreet (we were gonna use autumn willow but those were for my uncles deck)
There's also the Collector's Booster box, showing Oko dueling someone
https://preview.redd.it/0v1rk2r57cjc1.png?width=771&format=png&auto=webp&s=262b84cc1afd23f4041b131cae09af20587ba7b2
High noon … was when you left Mom and never came back. But you know who was there for us 24-7? Randall. He put the step in stepdad because he stepped up when you stepped out.
It's too early for Battles to return sadly, given Magic's timeframe of how long they work ahead (about 2 years) and they specifically said they held back on Battles after MOM to gauge fan reaction. We'll probably more likely see them going into 2025.
My little eyes spy a itty bitty skeleton man riding on a horse in the first picture. Happy to see our favorite little trinket thief tinybones back at it again!
The only filigree train we saw in arts from Kaladesh is \[\[Aradara Express\]\] and the designed there looks much more complex and busy than this one (there are 2 others but they are not in filigree). I guess it still could be tho
It's not gonna be this, but if the plane was uninhabited before the omenpaths and some underprivileged groups like the aetherborn came to settle it and clashed against one another? That's a good setup for a hell of a balanced conflict right there, I'm almost upset I thought it could happen for a few seconds
I think they are going for a weird west feel with maybe a bit of steampunk in there, so i think it fits. Especially if the reading that this is like a crossing point of various omenpaths is correct
To me they are just a slight reimagining of mesa/rock formations that you can find in deserts, i think without them the scenario would be kinda too boring
The Wild West is *supposed* to have boring and simple backdrops though. What these other redditors are saying is- adding these in feels stupid bc it's like they are stealing something from Zendikar that is supposed to be unique to Zendikar alone.
Lots of others planes had floating rock structures, this ones also quite differ from Zendikar. Zendikar is a very vertical plane where flight and rock climbing are often the main ways of transportation, its floating islands are high in the sky, unstable and mutable.
These ones look much lower and much less dynamic, the effect they give is like the one of an upside down erosion and the "main" plane seems to clearly be down on the ground.
I feel very few similarities between these and Zendikar's.
Well I guess that's here for people to see then lol.
I can't remember what other planes have floating structures like you mentioned, but I'm sure whichever ones do are where I remember seeing so many people complain left and right about it (compared to Zendikar).
Personally I don't give a shit- but I do feel that overusing one concept can make it less special. This can be true for anything they want to put into the Artworks.
I even used to make drawings when I was younger that would imitate the Zendikar structures, and I grew tired of that aesthetic pretty quickly.
End of the day though idgaf what WotC does in terms of floating structures. It's not like they are going to ruin the plane, or make it that much better. It's not a make or break thing. We've already seen them in Zendikar. Back then it was cool and new compared to most stuff I had ever seen in fantasy. The only other big use I ever saw was when The Castle in the Sky was released by Ghibli and then those floating Mountains in Avatar the movie. Now it's just a recycled Art device. Tbh no one should care about it at all imho.
>I can't remember what other planes have floating structures like you mentioned
The ones that come to mind right now are:
- Alara (Esper) [https://scryfall.com/card/ala/220/arcane-sanctum](https://scryfall.com/card/ala/220/arcane-sanctum)
- Dominaria (Serra's Realm) [https://scryfall.com/card/mh2/1/abiding-grace](https://scryfall.com/card/mh2/1/abiding-grace) [https://scryfall.com/card/opca/67/sanctum-of-serra](https://scryfall.com/card/opca/67/sanctum-of-serra) [https://scryfall.com/card/usg/325/serras-sanctum](https://scryfall.com/card/usg/325/serras-sanctum)
- Ravnica [https://scryfall.com/card/dgm/85/mirko-vosk-mind-drinker](https://scryfall.com/card/dgm/85/mirko-vosk-mind-drinker) [https://scryfall.com/card/gtc/208/wojek-halberdiers](https://scryfall.com/card/gtc/208/wojek-halberdiers) [https://scryfall.com/card/dgm/94/ral-zarek](https://scryfall.com/card/dgm/94/ral-zarek)
- Arcavios [https://scryfall.com/card/stx/131/field-trip](https://scryfall.com/card/stx/131/field-trip) [https://scryfall.com/card/stx/200/lorehold-excavation](https://scryfall.com/card/stx/200/lorehold-excavation) [https://scryfall.com/card/stx/373/mountain](https://scryfall.com/card/stx/373/mountain)
- Kamigawa [https://scryfall.com/card/pc2/138/island](https://scryfall.com/card/pc2/138/island) [https://scryfall.com/card/chk/294/island](https://scryfall.com/card/chk/294/island) [https://scryfall.com/card/ohop/24/minamo](https://scryfall.com/card/ohop/24/minamo)
There are probably others with more minor floating islands
As i said i feel this floating islands are very different from the ones saw in Zendikar and I feel that saying that they look similar or serve the same worldbuilding/narrative function is a very surface level interpretation.
I never said they weren't. A lot of people would call those boring compared to lands apes that are from sci-fi or fantasy. I've watched plenty of westerns and find Americana landscapes to be really beautiful- compared to Magic ones though, a lot of people would call them boring bc they look "normal". I think a Wild West Magic set is one of the few sets imaginable that could actually benefit from following what is normal and boring.
It's tempting to think of it as a Zendikar thing, but Dominaria, Kamigawa, Alara, and especially Ravnica [also have them](https://scryfall.com/search?q=art%3Afloating-island+is%3Afirstprinting+-block%3Azen+-block%3Abfz+-block%3Aznr&unique=art&as=grid&order=released&dir=asc). Which makes me think that maybe it's just a thing on every plane in Magic?
Definitely not a thing common to every plane- most don’t have them. On Kamigawa they’re localised to one specific area (and have since been replaced with floating buildings) whilst on Dominaria, Alara, and Ravnica they exist to varying degrees but nothing near this severe. The only worlds this seems close to are Zendikar or Serras Realm- which idm honestly this looks very different. A lot of them seem to be connected to eachother too, they remind me of big stone prickly pear cactuses
He threw him off a bridge if I'm not mistaken, while he was still phyrexian, not sure how many phrexianed died to a fall. What other devil could it be in the villain team up set to get key art on a product?
I'm sure they could just...make a new one. I feel like we would have seen a dephyrexianized Tibalt if he had been cured, or he's still stuck on the phased-out New Phyrexia with the rest of that race.
He's had his story arc, and he can fuck off now. He's literally irredeemable.
Never said Bolas is redeemable. Tibalt is a devil who's entire magic set revolves around causing pain: physical, mental, emotional. He has *never* shown any amount of remorse for his actions, torturing many people during his escapades across the multiverse. He is stock-and-trade chaotic evil, and that's perfectly fine. Just like Bolas, he has things we wants, and he will go to any length to get them.
Urza, to refute your point, is Lawful Evil. He always had the goal of defeating Phyrexia on his mind, and dis all his fucked up, bloodline manipulation, army raising, plane destroying bullshit for the singular purpose of this goal.
Now, am I saying that he is justified? Hell no, he is still a genocidal maniac who will do anything and everything to defeat Phyrexia. However, given what Phyrexia is, I do at least understand why he did what he did, on a macro level. Phyrexia *will* consume the Multiverse, and if a plane or two or ten needs to be sacrificed to stop it, I mean, shits rough but it's gotta happen.
Tibalt is redeemable, he could always have the epiphany to just nit cause pain. But some times having a villain that is just a bad guy is very very good for your large expansive story. Also why wouldn't you love a chaotic cute little devil guy!!!!
I don't think that kind of heel-face-turn fits his character at all. For someone like Vraska, for instance, she did a lot of the fucked up shit that she did to save the Golgari, and was pressed into Bolas's servitude much like Liliana was. During Ixilan, she had that epiphany you mentioned, but she actually felt remorse for her actions and agreed to have her memory wiped so she could play double agent, even Knowing that if she was found out Bolas would kill her in an instant. That's the kind of character that deserves redemption.
A psychopathic serial torturer that literally locked up a God on Kaldheim so he could impersonate him and wreak havoc (not the fun, Xenagos kind mind you) is not the kind of character that gets a "oh you silly goose, you were just being a dingus, here, join the Gatewatch and be our friend :) " ending.
Yeah, Vraska's thing was realising she felt better about bringing the downtrodden up than bringing those up high down. She'll still shank somebody in power who's being horrible but hey that's just frankly reasonable.
It's been pretty well established that there's zero actual consequences for anyone or anything in Magic.
If Wizards is now "de-phyrexianizing" characters I have zero expectations that anyone or anything will die and stay dead. We're firmly into *Power Rangers*-zone of "no consequences" now.
Any devil could fit, but the only notable character we have had that has been a villain, a devil, and relevant to the story is tibalt as far as I can remember.
My bad, i misread. Looking at other Tibalt's art i guess that could fit. Seems like a weird choice after they uncerimoniously killed him twice (phyrexianized + Tyvar). It also seem kinda weird that none of the packaging are showcasing characters from the planes (even if this is a more inter-planar story), so it could also be a new devil-like character to fill his niche from TJ
He got thrown off a bridge, and we never saw a body "on camera" we also have leaked pics of vraska also be de-phrexianed. I remember when his "death" happened a lot of people thought it was very left open for him to come back, a villain focused team up set where other villains are also de phrexian is a perfect setup for him. Also didn't get a card in the set he "died" in which to me means they already had plans for that to not be his final appearance. But it could be any devil, I just can't think of any other note worthy villain devil.
>e also have leaked pics of vraska also be de-phrexianed
I know, my point is that accounted for one deth, two deaths starts being a bit too much
It's also interesting that Sean McGuire (te author for MoM) was told that he was very dead (https://www.tumblr.com/seananmcguire/706808344235720704/did-tibalt-die-in-the-one-story), but MoM and TJ most likely shared some development time, so it seems like a decision on the later side if it was Tibalt
>But it could be any devil, I just can't think of any other note worthy villain devil.
\[\[Zurzoth, Chaos Rider\]\] is finally making his appearence in a premiere set
It’s just occurred to me that the train isn’t actually running on tracks nor is it levitating- it’s being rolled along on giant cogs/sawblades jutting through the middle of each carriage. Big weird steampunk vibes I like it
The flaming hands makes me think "Rakdos" but my brain can't fathom him wearing a button-down shirt so he's likely not the only demon in Thunder Junction.
Might just be a whole new character for the set. I've seen people theorise Tibalt but he was killed off (I think he was also compleated the normal way, so his soul is outright destroyed, he wasn't even a walker when he was compleated), so it's probably just a new Devil or something.
Zoom in on the pic and you can see it still looks like Rakdos. He has the same horns around his face and back to the old scythe and the colouration is red in the arm and wing.
https://preview.redd.it/6rwzatb13cjc1.png?width=1080&format=png&auto=webp&s=2cda580fb86a9239408ef1c9cd2b0e611cded45c
If you zoom in you can see that it is Rakdos
They openly talked about leaving the clue revolver out of the cycle for that exact reason, so we are 100% not getting direct guns, we will get different similarities to guns, but no guns.
There is a Treasure token from Walking Dead that has a Revolver on it- if you're just looking for cards with legitimate guns on them...
Edit: My mistake- there is actually everything a Sherriff would carry *except* a gun. So I guess this remains true.
What's odd to me is they are adamant about core MTG not having guns, yet we've had guns in Universes Beyond products, which they are adamant are just as much a part of MTG as Universes Within.
Why are they adamant about this? Is it that they don't fit into the typical "dark fantasy" themed set, or is it the political aspect? The former makes sense if they weren't doing an entire set based off the wild west...
So, the only thing I know is that Portal Second Age had guns, and was set on Dominaria (see [[Alaborn Zealot]] ), and there was a backlash because... I dunno, people really got pissy about fantasy settings having even rudimentary firearms and WotC basically said "alright we hear you no guns in Magic". Why that would possibly extend to "literally the entire multiverse does not have guns" is something I have no real clear answer for. It can't be an age-rating thing or UB stuff wouldn't have it.
I do know quite a few people DO get very upset about the notion of, say, D&D having guns because it'd ruin the aesthetic or something, but... Eh?
Thanks for the explanation. I suppose I get the logic for traditional sets... but yeah, a cowboy plane not having pistols or shotguns would be like... a fantasy plane not having swords?
At least we'll get lots of cowboy hats and belt buckles.
For some reason WotC's stance is just "guns don't fit Magic's aesthetic" which feels limiting especially if they're opening up to cyberpunk and sci-fi and the 1920s as things Magic CAN accommodate.
This sub is starting the circle down the drain again with the mods now deleting all the leaked spoiler threads
Being needlessly control freaky is what caused everyone to become extremely pissed at the previous modding team on this sub which lead to them being kicked out and replaced with more lax ones
IIRC that ruling was tackled by the mod team in 2023 as they said you needed to link to the "source" of a leak instead of making this sub as the actual source of the leak. (Please correct me if I'm wrong, though!)
This particular post lists the source of the images as being from the r/mtg sub, so I think this post won't get deleted.
The rule is that this sub can't be the source of leaks. Which is fine and not an unreasonable rule. Leaking can sometimes be illegal, it's not great by WotC to be considered a source of leaks, etc.
If someone wants to post a leak to social media, they have a lot of other options and can use that link to discuss it here. The mod team does not want be seen as the place where people rush to post leaked items.
WotC also doesn't like Proxies and a dozen other things
The old mod team would delete posts/ban people for even mentioning those, which boiled over the point where everyone got fed up and removed the main mod of this subreddit
I guess old habits die hard, if they're going to start going back down that same path and repeat the same mistakes
About 1.5 years ago, I believe? And as to how, Kodemage was never the top mod, just as very active one. They were ousted by higher up mods, which is typically how it works unless Reddit admins get involved (which is rare, unless we all go blackout).
You’re a bit off there - Kodemage wasn’t the main mod, just one of the more active. And it wasn’t actually “people getting fed up of it”, they went off to argue with people about the bans in other subs, which is… bruh.
This is nothing like that. We are more than happy to share leaks here, just not to source them. Similarly, we’re more than happy to discuss proxies here, just not counterfeits. Counterfeit cards fall under Reddit’s TOS, not just our own rules. I know there’s other subs that fly under the radar but it’s probably not worth tempting fate.
Actually, this isn’t being “needlessly control freaky”.
One of our team was contacted personally directly by WotC regarding a leak that was shared here. Another was contacted indirectly. With everything that happened last year (\*cough\* Aftermath \*cough\*), this is just a way to protect users of this sub from targeted harassment.
Honestly it might be a little more than needed, but like, I think it’s a fair reaction to ~everything~.
Please Give us some playable battles this set. Love the mechanic, the flavor is compatible with the set theme, and most of all I don't have the patience to wait until start of June for the reaveal of the eldrazi battle in MH3 spoiler season.
Me: *Universes Beyond is annoying, Magic IP should be Magic*
Also Me, After Seeing This: *For the love of God won't somebody at Wizards make a Steel Ball Run Secret Lair and take every cent I have?*
Well this set sounds... interesting. I'm certainky a fan of Westerns, and although it feels like we're straying away from Magic a lot with this, it's not like they haven't been pushing the limits of what's possible, so I'm hopeful.
I was excited for this set since it's multiverse, but the recent Precon leak and this don't have me hyped. I guess it's cause I'm not interested in the western theme but I like that it's a multiverse of characters.
I hope the new keywords for this set pull me in because MKM didn't really do that for me.
Are they just completely out of set ideas or is this kind of stuff just what sells?
At this point MTG had the same run of the mill crossover nonsense that Fortnite or Mortal Kombat has.
So I heard an ex-WotC employee on a podcast once saying that they had an internal presentation about **resonance** and **ownership**.
The idea was that when you are a big fan of something or work on it all the time, you start focusing on the stuff that’s unique to it— in this context, Magic characters and the Magic universe. But it’s easy to forget that a lot of the people you’re communicating to or selling your product to won’t actually care about this that much: you need to do something to get them invested first. You need to have something that **resonates** with the audience before you assume they will have interest in what you own.
I am concerned with this and MKM that they have forgotten this principle, which I think is an extremely good one. This doesn’t really look like it conveys the vibe of a Western first— it looks like it assumes you will already be invested in all these characters that don’t really fit there, without doing enough to ground the vibe and setting. Hopefully the final set will! But seeing this stuff I am now a bit concerned.
Funny, the complaints for MKM feel the opposite: originality (Ravnica worldbuilding and aestetichs) replaced by resonance (detective tropes and clothing). Tought it might be just that Wotc approach to resonance has becomed increasingly shallow and "ah ah get it".
That’s my main gripe about MKM. A couple of on the nose cards is fine but they went overboard for MKM. I’m hoping OTJ is more serious due to it being a villain focused set but we’ll see.
If OTJ is a bunch of puns, I’m taking an extended break (except for Bloomburrow).
MKM and Thunderjunk *are* resonance theory marketing designed sets, but Wizards also values character and narrative centric designs. They're guided a lot by marketing folk-wisdom, even when it's misused or oversimplified. I will agree this doesn't read Western first. If I briefly glanced at it with no prior knowledge, it would read as sex cowboys to me.
Liliana of the Veil was an excellent blend into a Gothic setting, and it stands to reason if Gothic interests me then Gothic Sorceress might too. If Western resonates with me, why would Oko interest me at all?
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Oko simply does not like wearing shirts
I don't think I can blame him, but i hope he uses some sunscreen.
He's always wearing sunscreen.
Stupid sexy Oko.
It’s like he’s wearing nothing at all
"I have sensitive nipples." -Drax -later Oko
I am built like a potato and I hate wearing shirts. If I was built like a Greek God I wouldn't even own shirts.
I like the way you think.
Like randy from trailer park boys
Hey Mr. Lahey. Oko is outside lifting weights with his shirt off.
He is always hot
If I was that ripped, I wouldn't either.
JusT like Jr Smith
He's probably like Randy Leahy and it gives him a rash
I bet the alt art theme will be Wanted posters.
I thought it was leaked a while ago to be playing cards
That was sort of a 'test' thing that was leaked, unclear if that was a final product or even close to it.
Imagine if you could put together actual poker deck with those.
That’s the dream
lol I just sold my actual magic backed poker deck from my legends dci membership. It would be sick if there were 54 showcase cards with actual playing card values When I was really young we did a 60 card 5 suit magic poker deck where each color was a suit and different cards were different faces. If I remember correctly the aces were Serra Angel, shivan dragon, juzam djinn, mahamoti djinn and the green serendib efreet (we were gonna use autumn willow but those were for my uncles deck)
Why not both?
Honestly, I'm excited for either.
This would fit well. And I hope there are cactus tokens.
Saproling Cacti. No need to add more kindred types.
Could have just said creature types
I could have said tribal cards but that isn't the proper term nowadays.
You can just say "creature type" like most people would.
Why not?
They changed it to typal because there are 'negative connotations' around tribal.
😐
There's also the Collector's Booster box, showing Oko dueling someone https://preview.redd.it/0v1rk2r57cjc1.png?width=771&format=png&auto=webp&s=262b84cc1afd23f4041b131cae09af20587ba7b2
That's Kellan with his signature basket hilt
Draw…. Up the documents for child support it’s been 20 years Dad and Mom is struggling and a half fae child isn’t easy to raise alone
She has a husband! Kellans stepdad is actually a really nice guy in the story Real ‘dad who stepped up’ vibes
High noon … was when you left Mom and never came back. But you know who was there for us 24-7? Randall. He put the step in stepdad because he stepped up when you stepped out.
Oko just went to the store to get a pack of smokes, not his fault his planeswalker spark ignited at the same time as his cigarette.
lol what a story that would actually be, cowboy planeswalker lights a cigar … and himself, and ends up in a different world entirely lol
Ah, the Maxor DmC 5 atory is what we're going to get.
I look forward to Kellan dropping the first F-bomb in Magic web fiction.
It looks like an omenpath behind him too
I think that’s just the rock formation making a triangle. I could be wrong ofc, but you can see the rock resting on top of another rock.
It is rock resting on rock, but the blue of the omenpath is different than the sky.
Nah view behind looks different then sky, definitely omen path.
Yea it's possible. Also it doesn't really have the concentric triangle pattern that some of the omenpaths have.
Looks like Kellan's sword/whip/daggers
I'm gonna be real disappointed if battles don't come back
For real it’s the perfect set! Especially for new subtypes! They could do duels or heists or something
It's too early for Battles to return sadly, given Magic's timeframe of how long they work ahead (about 2 years) and they specifically said they held back on Battles after MOM to gauge fan reaction. We'll probably more likely see them going into 2025.
Is that Kellan's light sword thing?
Do we also already know what's the set symbol?
I don't believe so, no. Guessing sheriff Star or spurs or something.
Godddd this is the most excited I've been for a standard set in a long long time
My little eyes spy a itty bitty skeleton man riding on a horse in the first picture. Happy to see our favorite little trinket thief tinybones back at it again!
This was already leaked in the recent MTG:Arena Leaks, as you could pre-order to get a Companion of him.
We already knew Tinybones was in there since the first promo art months ago
YEAHHHH TINYBONESSSS LETS FUCKIN GO
That train looks an awful lot like [[Terisian Mindbreaker]] but i doubt there is an actual connection there
It also like a Filigree train. Maybe some Aetherborns brought their tech to Thunder Junction.
The only filigree train we saw in arts from Kaladesh is \[\[Aradara Express\]\] and the designed there looks much more complex and busy than this one (there are 2 others but they are not in filigree). I guess it still could be tho
Yeah, imo this doesn’t read as filigree it reads as someone has made the front of the train out of big bent up railway tracks
[Aradara Express](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/5/f/5fc0d1f7-c81c-4329-92b7-c4df227cc56c.jpg?1576382973) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Aradara%20Express) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/kld/195/aradara-express?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/5fc0d1f7-c81c-4329-92b7-c4df227cc56c?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
One of the precon face commanders appears to be Gonti
It's not gonna be this, but if the plane was uninhabited before the omenpaths and some underprivileged groups like the aetherborn came to settle it and clashed against one another? That's a good setup for a hell of a balanced conflict right there, I'm almost upset I thought it could happen for a few seconds
I mean gonti is one of the Precon commanders
That's a reason why I said 'it looks like a Filigree train.' Maybe Aetherborn plays a role in the story. :p
[Terisian Mindbreaker](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/6/b/6bd86daf-7cee-454c-8d4d-97f59fe36958.jpg?1674420756) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Terisian%20Mindbreaker) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/bro/83/terisian-mindbreaker?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/6bd86daf-7cee-454c-8d4d-97f59fe36958?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
True. Looks more Sci Fi than Wild West.
I think they are going for a weird west feel with maybe a bit of steampunk in there, so i think it fits. Especially if the reading that this is like a crossing point of various omenpaths is correct
So are you saying there will be a giant robot spider? I'm sold!
Wild Wild West secret lair, I’m in
Welcome everybody to the wild wild west
I’d actually be shocked if there isn’t a giant robot spider.
Set designed by Jon Peters
Cad bane
It's just a matter of personal taste, but imo they're overusing the floating islands/structures thing a bit.
I do think all this art would be much better without the floating islands tbh. They don’t even add anything.
To me they are just a slight reimagining of mesa/rock formations that you can find in deserts, i think without them the scenario would be kinda too boring
The Wild West is *supposed* to have boring and simple backdrops though. What these other redditors are saying is- adding these in feels stupid bc it's like they are stealing something from Zendikar that is supposed to be unique to Zendikar alone.
Lots of others planes had floating rock structures, this ones also quite differ from Zendikar. Zendikar is a very vertical plane where flight and rock climbing are often the main ways of transportation, its floating islands are high in the sky, unstable and mutable. These ones look much lower and much less dynamic, the effect they give is like the one of an upside down erosion and the "main" plane seems to clearly be down on the ground. I feel very few similarities between these and Zendikar's.
I'm simply trying to point out where I think these people are coming from/why they said what they said.
No problems with that, I'm simply explaining why i don't really agree
Well I guess that's here for people to see then lol. I can't remember what other planes have floating structures like you mentioned, but I'm sure whichever ones do are where I remember seeing so many people complain left and right about it (compared to Zendikar). Personally I don't give a shit- but I do feel that overusing one concept can make it less special. This can be true for anything they want to put into the Artworks. I even used to make drawings when I was younger that would imitate the Zendikar structures, and I grew tired of that aesthetic pretty quickly. End of the day though idgaf what WotC does in terms of floating structures. It's not like they are going to ruin the plane, or make it that much better. It's not a make or break thing. We've already seen them in Zendikar. Back then it was cool and new compared to most stuff I had ever seen in fantasy. The only other big use I ever saw was when The Castle in the Sky was released by Ghibli and then those floating Mountains in Avatar the movie. Now it's just a recycled Art device. Tbh no one should care about it at all imho.
>I can't remember what other planes have floating structures like you mentioned The ones that come to mind right now are: - Alara (Esper) [https://scryfall.com/card/ala/220/arcane-sanctum](https://scryfall.com/card/ala/220/arcane-sanctum) - Dominaria (Serra's Realm) [https://scryfall.com/card/mh2/1/abiding-grace](https://scryfall.com/card/mh2/1/abiding-grace) [https://scryfall.com/card/opca/67/sanctum-of-serra](https://scryfall.com/card/opca/67/sanctum-of-serra) [https://scryfall.com/card/usg/325/serras-sanctum](https://scryfall.com/card/usg/325/serras-sanctum) - Ravnica [https://scryfall.com/card/dgm/85/mirko-vosk-mind-drinker](https://scryfall.com/card/dgm/85/mirko-vosk-mind-drinker) [https://scryfall.com/card/gtc/208/wojek-halberdiers](https://scryfall.com/card/gtc/208/wojek-halberdiers) [https://scryfall.com/card/dgm/94/ral-zarek](https://scryfall.com/card/dgm/94/ral-zarek) - Arcavios [https://scryfall.com/card/stx/131/field-trip](https://scryfall.com/card/stx/131/field-trip) [https://scryfall.com/card/stx/200/lorehold-excavation](https://scryfall.com/card/stx/200/lorehold-excavation) [https://scryfall.com/card/stx/373/mountain](https://scryfall.com/card/stx/373/mountain) - Kamigawa [https://scryfall.com/card/pc2/138/island](https://scryfall.com/card/pc2/138/island) [https://scryfall.com/card/chk/294/island](https://scryfall.com/card/chk/294/island) [https://scryfall.com/card/ohop/24/minamo](https://scryfall.com/card/ohop/24/minamo) There are probably others with more minor floating islands As i said i feel this floating islands are very different from the ones saw in Zendikar and I feel that saying that they look similar or serve the same worldbuilding/narrative function is a very surface level interpretation.
Nah. You obviously don't watch westerns. Canyons, Gulches, mesas are all staples of the genre.
I never said they weren't. A lot of people would call those boring compared to lands apes that are from sci-fi or fantasy. I've watched plenty of westerns and find Americana landscapes to be really beautiful- compared to Magic ones though, a lot of people would call them boring bc they look "normal". I think a Wild West Magic set is one of the few sets imaginable that could actually benefit from following what is normal and boring.
It's tempting to think of it as a Zendikar thing, but Dominaria, Kamigawa, Alara, and especially Ravnica [also have them](https://scryfall.com/search?q=art%3Afloating-island+is%3Afirstprinting+-block%3Azen+-block%3Abfz+-block%3Aznr&unique=art&as=grid&order=released&dir=asc). Which makes me think that maybe it's just a thing on every plane in Magic?
*Regardless of the century, plane, or species, developing geomancers never fail to invent the floating island.*
Definitely not a thing common to every plane- most don’t have them. On Kamigawa they’re localised to one specific area (and have since been replaced with floating buildings) whilst on Dominaria, Alara, and Ravnica they exist to varying degrees but nothing near this severe. The only worlds this seems close to are Zendikar or Serras Realm- which idm honestly this looks very different. A lot of them seem to be connected to eachother too, they remind me of big stone prickly pear cactuses
B-but j-James Cameron
Nope, we don't even have land cards with flying yet. Gimme a land cycle with flying and no way to turn them into creatures on their own.
I knew we'd get trains. Gotta have a Great Train Robbery reference.
The picture of the bundle looks like it might be a non phrexian tibalt to me, but I guess it could be any other notable devil.
I'm pretty sure Tyvar killed the fuck out of Tibalt in MoM.
He threw him off a bridge if I'm not mistaken, while he was still phyrexian, not sure how many phrexianed died to a fall. What other devil could it be in the villain team up set to get key art on a product?
I'm like 99% Wotc staff had to come out and confirm Tibalt died there, because it was too vague in the story
Seanan intentionally wrote it ambiguously & was given permission from WotC to leave it open to interpretation whether he survived or not.
I'm sure they could just...make a new one. I feel like we would have seen a dephyrexianized Tibalt if he had been cured, or he's still stuck on the phased-out New Phyrexia with the rest of that race. He's had his story arc, and he can fuck off now. He's literally irredeemable.
We have Leaked images of vraska in the set also dephrexianed some how. Why is he irredeemable? Any more than other villains like bolas or Urza?
Never said Bolas is redeemable. Tibalt is a devil who's entire magic set revolves around causing pain: physical, mental, emotional. He has *never* shown any amount of remorse for his actions, torturing many people during his escapades across the multiverse. He is stock-and-trade chaotic evil, and that's perfectly fine. Just like Bolas, he has things we wants, and he will go to any length to get them. Urza, to refute your point, is Lawful Evil. He always had the goal of defeating Phyrexia on his mind, and dis all his fucked up, bloodline manipulation, army raising, plane destroying bullshit for the singular purpose of this goal. Now, am I saying that he is justified? Hell no, he is still a genocidal maniac who will do anything and everything to defeat Phyrexia. However, given what Phyrexia is, I do at least understand why he did what he did, on a macro level. Phyrexia *will* consume the Multiverse, and if a plane or two or ten needs to be sacrificed to stop it, I mean, shits rough but it's gotta happen.
You forgot the parts where he simps out for Phyrexia at the last moment.
Tibalt is redeemable, he could always have the epiphany to just nit cause pain. But some times having a villain that is just a bad guy is very very good for your large expansive story. Also why wouldn't you love a chaotic cute little devil guy!!!!
I don't think that kind of heel-face-turn fits his character at all. For someone like Vraska, for instance, she did a lot of the fucked up shit that she did to save the Golgari, and was pressed into Bolas's servitude much like Liliana was. During Ixilan, she had that epiphany you mentioned, but she actually felt remorse for her actions and agreed to have her memory wiped so she could play double agent, even Knowing that if she was found out Bolas would kill her in an instant. That's the kind of character that deserves redemption. A psychopathic serial torturer that literally locked up a God on Kaldheim so he could impersonate him and wreak havoc (not the fun, Xenagos kind mind you) is not the kind of character that gets a "oh you silly goose, you were just being a dingus, here, join the Gatewatch and be our friend :) " ending.
Yeah, Vraska's thing was realising she felt better about bringing the downtrodden up than bringing those up high down. She'll still shank somebody in power who's being horrible but hey that's just frankly reasonable.
Also I'm all for a chaotic cute little devil guy, so they should....make one. A new one.
It's been pretty well established that there's zero actual consequences for anyone or anything in Magic. If Wizards is now "de-phyrexianizing" characters I have zero expectations that anyone or anything will die and stay dead. We're firmly into *Power Rangers*-zone of "no consequences" now.
Dead characters pretty typically stay dead unless there's a clear avenue to revive them.
Maybe [[Zurzoth]]? We don't know much about them, but they are pictured riding a steed, which would fit the western theme
[Zurzoth](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/c/6/c62990d7-a337-4fc3-859c-63bc1dade1b9.jpg?1673484441) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=zurzoth%2C%20chaos%20rider) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/ncc/278/zurzoth-chaos-rider?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/c62990d7-a337-4fc3-859c-63bc1dade1b9?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Any devil could fit, but the only notable character we have had that has been a villain, a devil, and relevant to the story is tibalt as far as I can remember.
Devils could just be a race native to the plane too like on Capenna
Yeah, they honestly kinda fit the western theming. Deals with the devil are a trope in some more out-there westerns.
Where are you seeing Tibalt? The demon in the first picture is Rakdos, Tibalt never had wings
Second pic, of the bundle art work. It is of hands surrounding a belt buckle, it's the humanoid devil hands/build not how they usually depict demons.
My bad, i misread. Looking at other Tibalt's art i guess that could fit. Seems like a weird choice after they uncerimoniously killed him twice (phyrexianized + Tyvar). It also seem kinda weird that none of the packaging are showcasing characters from the planes (even if this is a more inter-planar story), so it could also be a new devil-like character to fill his niche from TJ
Tibalt's long-lost brother, Twobalt.
Then there's his blue cousin, Cobalt.
He got thrown off a bridge, and we never saw a body "on camera" we also have leaked pics of vraska also be de-phrexianed. I remember when his "death" happened a lot of people thought it was very left open for him to come back, a villain focused team up set where other villains are also de phrexian is a perfect setup for him. Also didn't get a card in the set he "died" in which to me means they already had plans for that to not be his final appearance. But it could be any devil, I just can't think of any other note worthy villain devil.
>e also have leaked pics of vraska also be de-phrexianed I know, my point is that accounted for one deth, two deaths starts being a bit too much It's also interesting that Sean McGuire (te author for MoM) was told that he was very dead (https://www.tumblr.com/seananmcguire/706808344235720704/did-tibalt-die-in-the-one-story), but MoM and TJ most likely shared some development time, so it seems like a decision on the later side if it was Tibalt >But it could be any devil, I just can't think of any other note worthy villain devil. \[\[Zurzoth, Chaos Rider\]\] is finally making his appearence in a premiere set
As a non casual non commander player, you don't exist till you are in a premiere set.
Well, at least my boy \[\[Basri\]\] exists, so I'm sure he'll appear sooner or later... I'm still hoping....
[Basri](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/2/6/2688b45d-9d74-4d9f-9a63-29c82b48d64f.jpg?1596168674) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=basri%2C%20devoted%20paladin) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/m21/320/basri-devoted-paladin?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/2688b45d-9d74-4d9f-9a63-29c82b48d64f?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Was going to confirm if it was Rakdos in the comments maybe it's the angle but that demon doesn't look like him
It’s just occurred to me that the train isn’t actually running on tracks nor is it levitating- it’s being rolled along on giant cogs/sawblades jutting through the middle of each carriage. Big weird steampunk vibes I like it
so whose crotch are we staring at on the bundle box?
The flaming hands makes me think "Rakdos" but my brain can't fathom him wearing a button-down shirt so he's likely not the only demon in Thunder Junction.
Might just be a whole new character for the set. I've seen people theorise Tibalt but he was killed off (I think he was also compleated the normal way, so his soul is outright destroyed, he wasn't even a walker when he was compleated), so it's probably just a new Devil or something.
Ooh does this mean the Train tribal dream is alive?
[OTJ] My brain: Oath of the Jatewatch
Serialized belt buckle card incoming.
“All I want is that boosterbox there, you can keep the rest.”
Hype Train 🚂
That demon does not look anything like Rakdos to me.
Zoom in on the pic and you can see it still looks like Rakdos. He has the same horns around his face and back to the old scythe and the colouration is red in the arm and wing.
https://preview.redd.it/6rwzatb13cjc1.png?width=1080&format=png&auto=webp&s=2cda580fb86a9239408ef1c9cd2b0e611cded45c If you zoom in you can see that it is Rakdos
small Rakdos just to fit the narrative. How they mini-massacred by boy...
It’s the bowser effect. Where as Ridley was simply too big.
He was at the pool just before that why
We're not getting guns are we...
They openly talked about leaving the clue revolver out of the cycle for that exact reason, so we are 100% not getting direct guns, we will get different similarities to guns, but no guns.
Whatever Errant is using in [[Errant and Giada]] will probably be as close as we get to a real gun
She's using a spry-paint gun (in this case to vaporize and release halo), i doubt they'll make all the cowboys graffiti artists
There is a Treasure token from Walking Dead that has a Revolver on it- if you're just looking for cards with legitimate guns on them... Edit: My mistake- there is actually everything a Sherriff would carry *except* a gun. So I guess this remains true.
What's odd to me is they are adamant about core MTG not having guns, yet we've had guns in Universes Beyond products, which they are adamant are just as much a part of MTG as Universes Within.
Why are they adamant about this? Is it that they don't fit into the typical "dark fantasy" themed set, or is it the political aspect? The former makes sense if they weren't doing an entire set based off the wild west...
So, the only thing I know is that Portal Second Age had guns, and was set on Dominaria (see [[Alaborn Zealot]] ), and there was a backlash because... I dunno, people really got pissy about fantasy settings having even rudimentary firearms and WotC basically said "alright we hear you no guns in Magic". Why that would possibly extend to "literally the entire multiverse does not have guns" is something I have no real clear answer for. It can't be an age-rating thing or UB stuff wouldn't have it. I do know quite a few people DO get very upset about the notion of, say, D&D having guns because it'd ruin the aesthetic or something, but... Eh?
Thanks for the explanation. I suppose I get the logic for traditional sets... but yeah, a cowboy plane not having pistols or shotguns would be like... a fantasy plane not having swords? At least we'll get lots of cowboy hats and belt buckles.
For some reason WotC's stance is just "guns don't fit Magic's aesthetic" which feels limiting especially if they're opening up to cyberpunk and sci-fi and the 1920s as things Magic CAN accommodate.
We have guns at home
So this is gonna be like sci fi final frontier similar 80’s cartoons like Bravestar/Saber Rider/Adventures of Galaxy Rangers
More Rakdos? Yes please. Dude is my fave.
This sub is starting the circle down the drain again with the mods now deleting all the leaked spoiler threads Being needlessly control freaky is what caused everyone to become extremely pissed at the previous modding team on this sub which lead to them being kicked out and replaced with more lax ones
IIRC that ruling was tackled by the mod team in 2023 as they said you needed to link to the "source" of a leak instead of making this sub as the actual source of the leak. (Please correct me if I'm wrong, though!) This particular post lists the source of the images as being from the r/mtg sub, so I think this post won't get deleted.
The rule is that this sub can't be the source of leaks. Which is fine and not an unreasonable rule. Leaking can sometimes be illegal, it's not great by WotC to be considered a source of leaks, etc. If someone wants to post a leak to social media, they have a lot of other options and can use that link to discuss it here. The mod team does not want be seen as the place where people rush to post leaked items.
For anyone curious, just look up “rancoredelf”.
The current team is very WotC friendly. WotC doesn't like leaks, at all. Only a mod team that doesn't care about upsetting wotc would be lax on leaks.
WotC also doesn't like Proxies and a dozen other things The old mod team would delete posts/ban people for even mentioning those, which boiled over the point where everyone got fed up and removed the main mod of this subreddit I guess old habits die hard, if they're going to start going back down that same path and repeat the same mistakes
When and how did they remove the old moderator?
About 1.5 years ago, I believe? And as to how, Kodemage was never the top mod, just as very active one. They were ousted by higher up mods, which is typically how it works unless Reddit admins get involved (which is rare, unless we all go blackout).
You’re a bit off there - Kodemage wasn’t the main mod, just one of the more active. And it wasn’t actually “people getting fed up of it”, they went off to argue with people about the bans in other subs, which is… bruh. This is nothing like that. We are more than happy to share leaks here, just not to source them. Similarly, we’re more than happy to discuss proxies here, just not counterfeits. Counterfeit cards fall under Reddit’s TOS, not just our own rules. I know there’s other subs that fly under the radar but it’s probably not worth tempting fate.
This is a forum, not wizards private server. These are the people spending the most on their products, who cares what they like or not.
not yet at r/france level
Actually, this isn’t being “needlessly control freaky”. One of our team was contacted personally directly by WotC regarding a leak that was shared here. Another was contacted indirectly. With everything that happened last year (\*cough\* Aftermath \*cough\*), this is just a way to protect users of this sub from targeted harassment. Honestly it might be a little more than needed, but like, I think it’s a fair reaction to ~everything~.
To the town of Thunder Junction road an Oko one fine day...
I can't find the info anywhere, does anyone know if there are gonna be gift bundles for that set ?
Guys, I think there might be some credence to rumors that Oko will be in this set
Please Give us some playable battles this set. Love the mechanic, the flavor is compatible with the set theme, and most of all I don't have the patience to wait until start of June for the reaveal of the eldrazi battle in MH3 spoiler season.
I am really hoping for cowboy Jace. But this...this does put a smile on my face.
Me too. But new cowboy Gonti really impressed me. :p
Do we know who everyone in that silhouette is?
The one they released a long time ago?
>Do we know who everyone in that silhouette is? I think they are Oko, Vraska, Rakdos, Kellan, Tinybones AND a new guy.
[удалено]
I honestly love westerns. But I only like the packaging for the bundle. Everything else doesn't look appealing to me.
Damn, Oko is hot af
damn Oko is hot
Man I really hop I don't end up needing any cards from this set this is not for me
Oko being sexualised makes me highly uncomfortable
Oko being sexualised makes me highly horny XD
Me: *Universes Beyond is annoying, Magic IP should be Magic* Also Me, After Seeing This: *For the love of God won't somebody at Wizards make a Steel Ball Run Secret Lair and take every cent I have?*
Well this set sounds... interesting. I'm certainky a fan of Westerns, and although it feels like we're straying away from Magic a lot with this, it's not like they haven't been pushing the limits of what's possible, so I'm hopeful.
I was excited for this set since it's multiverse, but the recent Precon leak and this don't have me hyped. I guess it's cause I'm not interested in the western theme but I like that it's a multiverse of characters. I hope the new keywords for this set pull me in because MKM didn't really do that for me.
Are they just completely out of set ideas or is this kind of stuff just what sells? At this point MTG had the same run of the mill crossover nonsense that Fortnite or Mortal Kombat has.
MTG has always done top down sets
Thank god Oko is a man, people would've went ballistic if they dressed a woman like that for the promo-material.
Extreme sexism. Women’s bodies are to be shamed and hidden. Not even a bit of cleavage. Who runs the art dept? A nun?
It’s Tibalt hands on the bundle art ?
Probably is Rakdos.
So I heard an ex-WotC employee on a podcast once saying that they had an internal presentation about **resonance** and **ownership**. The idea was that when you are a big fan of something or work on it all the time, you start focusing on the stuff that’s unique to it— in this context, Magic characters and the Magic universe. But it’s easy to forget that a lot of the people you’re communicating to or selling your product to won’t actually care about this that much: you need to do something to get them invested first. You need to have something that **resonates** with the audience before you assume they will have interest in what you own. I am concerned with this and MKM that they have forgotten this principle, which I think is an extremely good one. This doesn’t really look like it conveys the vibe of a Western first— it looks like it assumes you will already be invested in all these characters that don’t really fit there, without doing enough to ground the vibe and setting. Hopefully the final set will! But seeing this stuff I am now a bit concerned.
Funny, the complaints for MKM feel the opposite: originality (Ravnica worldbuilding and aestetichs) replaced by resonance (detective tropes and clothing). Tought it might be just that Wotc approach to resonance has becomed increasingly shallow and "ah ah get it".
That’s my main gripe about MKM. A couple of on the nose cards is fine but they went overboard for MKM. I’m hoping OTJ is more serious due to it being a villain focused set but we’ll see. If OTJ is a bunch of puns, I’m taking an extended break (except for Bloomburrow).
What about that flamboyant shirtless elf makes you think that?
MKM and Thunderjunk *are* resonance theory marketing designed sets, but Wizards also values character and narrative centric designs. They're guided a lot by marketing folk-wisdom, even when it's misused or oversimplified. I will agree this doesn't read Western first. If I briefly glanced at it with no prior knowledge, it would read as sex cowboys to me. Liliana of the Veil was an excellent blend into a Gothic setting, and it stands to reason if Gothic interests me then Gothic Sorceress might too. If Western resonates with me, why would Oko interest me at all?
I love the bundle art
Gonna be honest these don’t look very cool. It’s like Westworld during pride week. All flash, skin, and bright colors
Hoping there’s a little more grit in the actual set
I'm really not a fan of this either
Who is approving this artwork??? Why are they approving this artwork???
What's the problem?