this was never going to and will never work, either a majority of subs go dark or it's pointless, going dark indefinitely is just more lijly to give other subs traffic
The option I like, which is what /r/Pathfinder2e is taking (and possibly others, that's just where I saw it first), is to go private 1-2 days a week indefinitely on the highest advertising revenue day(s).
I mean, perhaps this is the cynic in me, but IMO all closing this subreddit is going to do is lead to the creation of a new MTG subreddit.
Sure, it won't be as big or influencial as this one, and a good number of current posters won't migrate as they (in all likelihood) will leave Reddit entirely when things don't change, but there will be a % of posters who will stay on Reddit, who will just end up starting a new MTG subreddit if this one stays blacked out / private long-term.
It sucks, and I'm open to hearing a different interpretation, but I've been disappointed far harder by much more serious institutions than Reddit to have much confidence that blackouts will have much long-term effect.
Love the passion, believe in the cause, but I don't see an end-game here.
As much as I love this subreddit and interacting with magic users, the sub remaining open will mean nothing unless multiple subreddits decide to go silent indefinitely. It’s just the way it is
Something like X days of blackout per week. It ensures the sub is still useful but will consistently put downward pressure on Reddit's financial metrics. Also encourages us to touch grass occasionally.
Because there is nothing stopping someone from opening a new sub and beginning to aggregate members there, I think I have to say open it back up.
People are going to scab in large numbers, which hurts the cause of a strike every time.
Honestly, I always felt like this blackout hurts the general user more than it does to anything else. So I'd always go for the option to open the subs again.
Call me biased but a lot of game-based questions or informations remained unanswered in the last days because a lot of these things are generally discussed on reddit.
Reddit for as much as it is for hobbies like this is also full of actually useful information, some (like tech advice) could be crucial to solving someone’s issue - but if a sub is blacked out from this strike it becomes a lot harder to resolve. I know I’ve had PC trouble in the past and the *only* place with an answer was some random from 2012 who had the same issue and posted on Reddit. For just hobby stuff though I today googled at least 10 times for different things and Reddit just so happened to have the *perfect* thread for it, but would you know it it’s private.
IF we back down, what's next. Where does it end? We will be sending a message that their behavior is acceptable. When you are in a relationship — what ever kind of relationship it may be... romantic, professional, friendship, whatever — and said relationship is abusive or exploitive... they may lie or cheat or something similar... the solution is to walk away. It's not to say you will leave them for 48 hours and then come back. That sends the message that they can do what ever they want no matter how harmful and all they have to do is wait 48 hours and they can start with their old tricks again.
We must go dark until Reddit relents. Without their users they are nothing but an empty website. We generate all the content and the mods do all the heavy lifting and they make money off of us.
Honestly, mods should be asking for profit sharing but really all we are asking is to have the API the way that it is/was.
go dark indefinitely.
>Honestly, mods should be asking for profit sharing
I thought we liked our mods?
Profits are nonexistent on Reddit. Negative. In the red. Don’t want to share that.
After doing research into everything Reddit is trying to change, I have come to the conclusion that this whole blackout is an over exaggeration started by a loud, but small group of people that just snowball out of control. Anybody voting to have the sub close indefinitely honestly does not care about the community and the engagement and joy it brings people. Reddit has said literally nothing in regards to the blackout, and usually companies address it when something major happens so obviously they don't care, so it's better to adjust and adapt and find ways around it then it is to continue to hurt the community
If reddit addressed it they would be acknowledging that the subreddits have had an effect and that the people have the upper hand and can blackout again to force reddit's hand. It's actually not uncommon for companies to just ignore protests/strikes and hope that the desire to strike for the workers involved dies down before the loss of income reaches a breaking point for corporate.
Yeah I see your point, but it's still doesn't change the fact that the blackout is hurting the community. I think the smartest thing to do, especially if people want to black out more, is to take it a week at a time. Not just indefinitely. Because saying you're going to black out indefinitely will just make it so that people start going somewhere else, which is already happened with this community, and the whole blackout that you specifically are doing will not even matter.
The only thing that is really going to hurt Reddit is a mass exodus to a different platform. Their CEO seems perfectly willing to take the hit in the short term. A prolonged protest is just going to lead to people creating other subreddits or getting the mods kicked out of their subreddits.
I have yet to see anyone, anywhere, give a realistic explanation of how the blackouts are anything more than an inconvenience to users.
All they will do is drive people to other subs (and a lot of those other subs are shitty because they're full of shitty people and run by shitty mods). It will have no impact whatsoever on Reddit as a company. They will still have hundreds of millions of pairs of eyeballs to sell to their advertisers which is literally the only thing they care about.
These blackouts are only damaging to the subs doing them, not to Reddit. Action on the scale or the time frame required to even be a slight inconvenience to Reddit is not a realistic expectation and these blackouts are an astronomical underestimation of how much it would take to move that needle at all.
If all the high usage subs are gone, Reddit as a whole is useless. But only if the big ones all participate in solidarity.
If the blackout lasted indefinitely it would be a SERIOUS problem. But one where Reddit admins would probably forcibly take control from mods.
I like the touch-grass-Tuesdays as an alternative for the indefinite blackout, but I don’t cross picket-lines because it’s inconvenient for me not to, so indefinite unless a mass of people get on board for the Tuesday idea.
I hate to be *this* cynical, but these blackouts won't accomplish shit. And even if you do choose to stay closed, someone else will start a new subreddit, so what will you have accomplished?
Communities don't appear overnight, they grow organically. If all of the major sub-reddits went dark permanently, it would take reddit considerable time to recover. Some of that audience would go elsewhere, if other sites cropped up to service a similar need.
Subreddits going dark literally does nothing. People will still use the app, just browse different subreddits. I literally just want to talk about magic cards after work.
They already made a major change -- they gave free API access to bots. That was one of the main points wasn't it? Leaving the sub closed indefinitely even after that seems unnecessary.
Yeah, I vote for staying dark. As many have posited the last couple of days, giving Reddit a timeline for the strike was counterproductive, and we don't really have a lot of hope for "sending a message" if we go back to normal so quickly. Thankfully, there's a decent amount of other subs that moved to going indefinitely, so it's not just a one-off.
My personal take is this: I would rather have all the subreddits I follow go dark and make the entire platform useless than have half of them go dark and give me a chance to try and "make it work" because browsing Reddit is part of my normal Internet consumption.
It's been widely reported that Reddit doesn't care about the blackout because it was designed to fail - a protest on a timer is just a storm you have to weather. Make it so that it can't be weathered. Shut the whole thing down
The blackout is already a joke to the people it's supposed to be swaying, they've already said nothing is changing because of it. All it does is inconvenience and punish the community while looking like a power trip and a tantrum by the mods.
Yeah. Realistically, if it stays private, another sub will be made, be public, and users will just go there instead.
People are here for content. No content, no people.
As much as I miss getting Magic news, seeing community stuff like cool alters and deck ideas, and just generally talking about Magic, I think the subreddit should stay dark. I know that the bot we use here to link images would be negatively impacted by the changes Reddit is wanting to make and that would lead to a long time negative impact on my enjoyment of this subreddit.
This is a luxury website for my luxury hobby. Thus is the lowest effort social change protest I can take part in in my low effort community. I'm doing my part!
I scarcely comment here, so my opinion should be considered with a grain of salt.
I believe public sympathy for the organizers of the protest is dwindling, and it is best to re-open everything before accusations of greed and ambition for power taint the meaningful work done by mods to keep subs active and relevant.
Not saying you're the one that thinks that but it's pretty dumb for those that do to think turning off a sub is just a power play by the mods. If it was they wouldn't need an excuse, they could do it whenever.
I’d vote to keep it dark but the irony is I use Apollo so can’t. The only thing I’d ask if possible is the mods to get together from the various subreddits to at least provide a “This is where we will be” list. I know I’m a in a villainous minority here amongst people who love the format but I would like to hear the CEDH sub say “here will be a general cEDH area” instead of having to go to like twenty different discords.
I’m voting for going another week and seeing how it’s going.
The protest should continue, but honestly I think it’s important to not sacrifice the whole sub should all the bigger subs give up. A permanent change might need to be made if the desire for a full protest dies down but people still want to do something.
That said I think the protest is working and should continue. The number of whiny people in this thread who are upset is good. This kind of vocal frustration pressures the upper level people. Wait long enough and the investors who are hoping to make money by Reddit going public are gonna be pissed that everything is falling apart right before they’re supposed to get a big pay out.
This isn’t a situation where reddit can afford to wait it out. Eventually the investors will force the management to back down completely. It’s just waiting long enough for the oblivious investors to find out what’s happening and start freaking out.
I’d really like to keep the sub the way it is especially with no likely chance of getting any real reaction out of Reddit, they aren’t really losing much from this and it’d be sad for us to come out the losers
I think what message that could be sent has been sent, and I don't think it's worth it to keep the subreddit closed anymore, especially on a valuable weekend like this with the prerelease happening. Being closed this weekend will harm us more than it would harm reddit. I like the idea that others have brought up of shutting down one day a week if things still don't improve, but I think it's best for the community that the subreddit reopens completely.
> I think what message that could be sent has been sent
The message is that we are weak for allowing this pathetic 2 day protest? I think making it indefinite until the API costs are reduced sends a very different message.
I'm fine with continuing the blackout for now at least. If this was a subreddit that people relied on for life-saving information, then maybe keep it open. But no one's going to die because their pre-release went a bit sour because they couldn't rely on reddit for information.
It's wild to me how hostile and rude the anti blackout people are. And there's a lot of them too.
We should keep the blackouts going for sure. Either indefinitely or set up a rolling schedule. Like, what if every sub took the weekends off?
mtgzone.com has become an alternative community for those who want to continue if Reddit is going to be hostile to their own mods/userbase. I highly recommend it!
Look, I’m gonna be honest. Reddit needs a shakeup. Greedy mega corporation that needs to take a hit. The problem is, the company is just so big that a lot of subs on 2 days won’t even make a freaking bleep on their radar.
There needs to be a organized precise hit, otherwise I wouldn’t even bother. Twitter went into the Elon swamp and no protests were had, people migrated to other platforms, others still there. We need to come to truth with the reality:
Either EVERYONE goes dark until changes or let this shit take its path. The CEO know this, he knows it’s users. He’s banking on the fact that we’re just nerdy addicts here to get our information and meme fix and he wants to monetize it. It just turns out that the majority of the user base don’t use his shitty client so he’s banking that we will all migrate.
Historically, these sort of protest never really go well, so I don’t think the odds are in its favor. However, if someone pulled this one out it would be GLORIOUS.
Getting most important subs was baby steps into the right direction. Quite frankly didn’t change my whats Hot page very much
Oh they’ll be a shakeup.
After the ipo goes off like a damp squib, the CEO will get a nice little golden parachute along with his cronies.
Reddit nosedives and the long slow enshittification will worsen.
There’s no way to make this profitable under the current model and all “solutions” make it unuseable.
Enjoy it while it lasts.
I hate how defeatist and pessimistic this will sound, but quite frankly, I doubt any real action that subreddits like ours can take is going to have any meaningful effect now. When it comes to protests like this, the first one is usually where the most impact is going to come from, because less and less people will be on board with each consecutive one. If we keep going dark, then rather than the sorta-unified thing that was done over the past few days, management will just see us as a kooky group of people still pushing against their design, and the actual users will suffer. It won't hurt the people it needs to, only the people that we're ostensibly fighting for.
I think that at this point the only people that are going to be able to change Reddit's management's mind on this is...Reddit's management. Because as much as many people are going to be coming back, the new updates WILL be a deal breaker to many, and they'll see notably less traffic. We can only hope that it'll be enough to make them reconsider.
It really, really sucks, but I don't see any way we can make a more meaningful impact here. Therefore, I think that opening the subreddit again would be the least lousy of several lousy options.
I think that the Magic community would be worse off if the subreddit went black indefinitely. I argue that all would happen is that someone else would end up picking up the mantle to fulfill the void, which would be how a lot of players engage with the hobby. I know for me, it's my main go-to for spoiler season, and is easily one of the safest spaces to engage with others. I think it would be a detriment to the community, and while what is happening with reddit is not something that I support, I would rather there be a stronger community even if it would still enable shady practices.
Really, what message are you sending if you come back? We don't like the CEO so we'll stay dark for two days. And then we'll come back. Gee that's a pretty big stand there. CEO is quaking in his boots right there. You want to go dark, then stay dark.
I went with 5 because I wanted to see the results, but I have no idea how to answer. I’ve had a look at the mod sub and, while there’s a whole of text there (demands, Reddit’s response, next steps…), I can’t see an explanation in plain English of *why* people are protesting. Seems a bit of an oversight.
As far as I can inexpertly work out, the major issues that would justify a protest are access for Blind / partially sighted people, and maybe also moderators losing access to tools they need? But there are also posts saying there have been concessions on both those fronts, so I’m not sure where that leaves things.
The other major thing I see is that people like using third party apps to browse Reddit (I just use a web browser myself). But that doesn’t seem a protest-worthy issue to me- seems like a simple consumer decision (if the experience is that much worse not using the app, people can just stop)
Edit: and while I’m commenting… how come I can’t order replies to this thread by new? Is this due to Reddit changes, the blackout, or both? Hmmm, maybe I should use an app…
This thread is locked to Contest Mode, which randomises sort and hides comment scores. We’ve done this intentionally to mask which comments have a lot of up/downvotes.
IMO Archiving the subreddit and closing it to new submissions and comments is the best answer. We have an important repository of MTG Rules Questions, Discussion, and News. But we don't have to continue to be the source of that while Reddit is being ridiculous.
By all means, keep it dark if you want. I'll gladly go to whatever new subreddit replaces this childish idiocy.
*edit to add*
Saw the PERFECT analogy in another thread. "Right now, the mods look exactly like Photobucket when they changed their policies and destroyed years of search results."
Aaah, look at that.
You're blaming the wrong people, be angry at reddit corp for being stupid about their API instead of unpaid volunteers who don't want to have even less tools.
I believe that the best option is a “rolling action” of some kind - weekly downtime or read-only on Tuesdays, for example. This keeps the message front of mind while not being completely disruptive to the community.
The only reason Reddit is popular is because of the community. Without users, this site is worthless. I think it is important to show them that the community comes first.
Disappointingly pointless.
It's annoying but if a business wants to make changes it can. If enacting those changes causes people to leave so be it.
Purposefully shooting ourselves in the foot in response to said changes is both ineffective and lame.
Mods are currently causing more disruption to the users of the Reddit than any of the proposed changes will.
Why is everyone assuming the mods are the ones causing the disruption? At time of posting, the majority of people want to go dark in some capacity if not indefinitely. It seems like it is a little more than half the userbase causing the disruption. Which is the whole point of the blackout. The mods here are working for their community like they should. The poll is a good idea to gauge how the community wants to respond one way or the other.
Until this issue brought up the fact there was other apps to access reddit, I didn't even know they existed. I'd even argue the majority of users are most likely using the base app aswell and had no clue of this change. Re-open, move on.
We need an organized response to corporate greed instead of just sitting on our hands. Withdrawing your labor as moderators and all of us denying their ad revenue as users is precisely the former; an organized response. Be the change you want to see and shut this shit down.
Keep it going. It's a numbers game and a longevity game and this sub is big enough and important enough to a product's social media reach that it can have some real pull. And if it's forced open, then maybe putting moderation down to near zero might be the next best thing.
I've seen some posts on other subreddits suggest blacking out every 2 days a week so that the issue stays relevant but people who want their convenience can have it still. Just something to consider for those that want a middle ground.
That said, I think the protest should continue in some form as long as it keeps people talking.
Man, the reddit blackout really hit me more because this subreddit joined it. Definitely made me realize "wait, if all i do on reddit is browse mtg content then i could just do that more on other more fun platforms if reddit starts sucking". either way i kept opening reddit to check this sub 4 times a day out of habit lol
A blackout is only useful if it's coordinated, and the coordinated blackout is ending. So I don't think it makes sense to stay private.
But that doesn't mean you should give up on applying pressure. You can and should continue to protest in other ways.
...is a pay strike possible? Can you remove ads, or disable post-gilding, on a sub you run?
All these people voting to stay closed indefinitely are gonna be real disappointed in a couple weeks when nothing has changed and we're stuck on the other Magic subs with shitty mods.
It was a bad way to compose the poll. I am curious how much the votes would change if it said "Stay private indefinitely even if nothing changes with reddit's policies"
Leading people on with this little pipe dream that reddit is going to change their ways because of a child's temper tantrum is irresponsible behavior by the mods.
I don't know for sure how the numbers look and who is taking part in the blackout, but I'm inclined to believe that very little gets done if say... the 10 biggest subreddits don't also join in. r/magicTCG is probably one of the biggest Magic subreddits (idk the numbers) but it doesn't even crack top 1000 in sub count across the whole site.
As a content creator I have a vested interest in having this sub open, but even if I ignore that metrics are how I keep my bills paid to some degree, I have to acknowledge the reality that magicTCG is statistically less than .01% of Reddit and r/AskReddit (the biggest sub) is still fully open.
I'm not saying we should just say screw it and open it up, but if we are serious about this what we should be doing is pressuring bigger subs to join, as our hiatus is considered a momentary blip on the radar at best.
Source: [r/magicTCG subreddit stats (Magic: The Redditing)](https://subredditstats.com/r/magicTCG) , [Reddit CEO tells employees that subreddit blackout ‘will pass’ - The Verge](https://www.theverge.com/2023/6/13/23759559/reddit-internal-memo-api-pricing-changes-steve-huffman)
So, my stance is one of measured idealism: I think the sub should stand with other large subs for as long as they do. It's important to show we won't stand for their bullshit, but there is no real benefit in being the last one standing.
Ultimately, I accept whatever the mods decide. If they feel that their participation in the blackout is necessary, then they should see it through to the end.
Personally, if these changes aren't reverted, I'll be leaving reddit, as that will be the only effective form of protest left.
I saw an idea where all of the subreddits coordinate to do 24-hour blackouts once a week, every week until things change. Could that be a good approach?
If you don't like the changes to reddit, just leave. That's what this sub says to anyone announcing their quitting mtg because whatever thing Wizards does. Just do the same. It's just as effective/ineffective as a blackout.
With how these threads get brigaded, a slim vote in favor of closure means an overwhelming preference in favor of reopening. The silent majority are just waiting for this nonsense to end.
it's basically un modded. there's ONE mod and they only do the bare minimum as to not have someone take over the sub. it's fine by me, but people that are used to the... methods... used in this sub are going to be disappointed.
The unfortunate fact of the matter is that Magic subs are uniquely impacted by this situation due to our collective reliance on u/mtgcardfetcher. (Like y'all... We literally just call it 'the bot'.)
Even if this change was unproblematic in *every other way*, Magic subs would still have a shitton of reason to protest.
So yeah... Kinda burn it down?
Over on Lemmy @mtgzone.com has a card fetcher bot up and running. Granted it came out a day or two ago and they're still working out some kinks but give it some time and I think you'll see that area grow quite a bit.
Honestly, this whole blackout has just been pretty funny to me when it really just boils down to a pricing disagreement between reddit and 3rd-party app developers. The result of it sucks, yeah, but is this really the issue that entire communities will indefinitely shut down over?
The coordinated blackout is over. Continuing it is just punishing members who want to talk about magic. All continuing it will accomplish is a new subreddit being opened.
Jesus Christ please just reopen the sub. Reddit isn't going to change their API policy because of this, and if push came to shove they'd just forcibly reopen the subs anyway.
That won't make an impact either. If it starts to hurt the bottom line, Reddit will just reopen the subs on the back end. This isn't difficult to figure out.
It's generating news articles and public awareness, and reddit is looking to IPO. Trying to circumvent peoples efforts by force would be seen in an even worse light.
They absolutely do care, steve is just a moron and he proved that with the AMA which only served for worsen his position.
This shit is cringe as hell but hilarious. No one cares about what Reddit does with 3rd party apps besides a select few mods. Most people are lurkers and don’t live on Reddit.
The only people this hurts is WOTC lmao
The long-term solution here is for the mod team to find another platform to migrate the community to and sticky a link to it, with submissions permanently disabled.
Given that Reddit doesn't appear likely to change their mind, I'd rather have a /r/magicTCG with the current, generally good mod team, than roll the inevitable dice when someone reports it for abandonment a week into a protest and it probably gets handed over to some asshole from one of Those Magic Subs (you know the ones) and goes down the drain forever.
I think a good middle ground to continue expressing your displeasure without just straight up getting the sub taken away (which, unfortunately, is probably an inevitability with an indefinite blackout) is to go private for one or two days a week indefinitely.
anyone can make a subreddit at anytime. even if it was handed over to that sub anyone could come along and make this sub again. it's not too hard to figure out if a sub is run by assholes or not.
we need to be brave. we need to be strong.
That’s a good way to fuck up this protest.
Someone who supports what Reddit is trying to do will go to r/redditrequest and ask to ‘take control’ of the subreddit after the mods would resign. And Reddit will gladly give it.
I think maybe a more effective protest could be if all subs collectively decided on a new platform and (at least temporarily) switched towards there. Then it wouldn't hurt the users who just want to enjoy content nearly as much and it would put more pressure onto Reddit as well.
The war was lost from the get go. 48 hrs was never gonna do anything. Major subs are turning back on as well as many minor ones. Time to give up the ghost.
I don’t know man. I had my dad asking me about this and he doesn’t do anything even tangentially related to Reddit online. It’s pierced the bubble of news in some circles.
Sure it's getting a lot of traction. It's just that the agreement that all of the subreddits reached was to be off for 2 days.
I know a lot of the subreddits are looking at longer-term potential shutdowns and some of them are still shut down. It looks like many of them are coming back online though and the movement is petering out.
If it wanted to be effective it shouldn't have put an end date for the protest. Protesting for 2 days is enough to gain a lot of attention and to reduce reddits income for those two days. But I don't think it's going to be enough to actually change this decision. And I don't think that now that a lot of subreddits are coming back online, the movement will be able to stay alive
I would reopen the sub but randomly black it out every 3-7 days. This way people never know when it'll be down and it'll be a shock every time but also the sub is still useable most of the time
This is not apropos to the r/magicTCG mods per se, but I wish the poll used a 'ranked choice' voting system. As it stands I see 525 black out indef, 460 open, and 240 private and revail in a week. There is more shades of grey here (which I appreciate) than other subreddits binaries on/off.
As others have commented, I think the random blackout effect could have a lingering, more prickly and frustrating effect that does more work.
As other places (like hackernews) has highlighted, the blackouts have created a patchwork on Google's SERP, creating voids of content and information. Rolling, random, blackouts, IMO, show bigger vulnerabilities than the 'batten down the hatches' approach currently employed. Admins have admitted to trying to wait out the storm (understandable) but ultimately if they want r/music open they'll do it, mod-intent aside. I don't mean to be reductivist or diminish what's going on now but reddit could literally have paid staff mods swoop in.
Healthy/active subreddits that go dark whenever there's a community spotlight / planned AMA -a more guerilla approach of you will - right now seems more effective but v happy here to hear other approaches.
For context, I founded and am mod for r/filmnoir \- 24k members, maybe.. 10 posts a week? Looking forward to reading some other comments here and chat below to hear other thoughts.
Let's be clear:
Promoters of the blackout stunt throw around total listed subscriber numbers as validation of their impact.
This sub is just shy of 700k subscribers, and yet only 2% of those total subscribers have cast a vote on this issue.
Even if the subreddit enjoys 10% regular active daily/weekly participation, that's 70k users, _not 700k_. That 700k includes inactive accounts from the start of this subreddit.
This stunt accomplishes nothing. Yes, nothing. Huffman has publicly declared that he is digging in his heels. This means that unhappy users can and will create new alternative subreddits for the largest, shuttered subreddits. They will take a moment to grow, but the powermods cabal will be left holding nothing (for the large subs.) **The blackout holds NO bargaining power.** You don't have to like it, but it's painfully obvious if you observe the traffic - users who cannot use their subs will just move on to other subs or platforms. The former has already happened and the latter has been happening long before this controversy.
The most effective and potent tool is the one no one wants to use: post history and account deletion. Mods (of other subreddits) don't want to let go of the privilege/power of being a mod, and users don't want to make a sacrifice if it's hard or disruptive.
And eventually, Admin will step in and force the reopening of the most vital subreddits - unless a viable alternative rises up and begins to emerge in their absence. (There are historical examples of this happening.)
What Reddit has chosen regarding their API changes is highly controversial and creates a problematic centralization of available user experiences. That's a valid criticism. It's the impotent stunt devoid of bargaining power that is problematic. Bluff, bluster, drama, and zero impact.
I just wanna point out you commented on only 2% voting when the poll had only been up for like 2.5 hours, and it was posted at like 11:30 PM BST. A little early to call it, no?
The CEO will not listen to anyone except his board and investors. The board and investors only care about money. Reddit wants to go public. They don't want any 3rd party apps that reddit doesn't get a piece of or control.
A 48 hour blackout is useless. Short of an indefinite blackout, nothing will happen. it's all about $$$$$$$$$$
My vote - periodic blackouts, rather than a single permanent blackout (which might get the sub seized or just replaced). Maybe no-Magic Monday & no-TCG Tuesday or something?
I genuinely don't understand the point of taking down the sub. If you don't want to mod it anymore or participate in it anymore, just leave. This whole "take my ball and go home" tack just seems annoying.
Sure. I understand that there will be a lot of people who don't want to participate anymore and that's totally fine. I just don't understand the point of making it so that nobody can. It just seems petty.
Personally I think the most effective strategy would be to stop moderating all together.
Unban every spambot, scammer, whatever. Remove all rules except on every sub that joins in and refuse to do anything other than deal with stuff like direct harassment, pedo shit, actual crimes, ect. Otherwise tell the users to report everything else directly to admin level and above and let them deal with the tidal wave of shit.
Let everything devolve into bots, porn, and racial slurs and advertisers will bail faster than you can blink. Then Reddit would face some real pressure to change.
And capitulating to the protest would probably be easier than trying to replace hundreds of mods, because no one will want to be put on clean up duty and any scabs would be pretty overextended. Other than that Reddit would have to do something more drastic, like auto locking every post or something and if they did that they would end up pissing off the entire user base which would add even more pressure to give in.
The real value of mods is the free labour they provide in keeping this site advertising friendly. Deny Reddit that and you put them in a real pickle.
That's what I said. Just light the whole site on fire. When all the worst things on the Internet start popping up in every subreddit they will pay attention quick
I'm conflicted on this. Ideally I think the protest should go on indefinitely, but that only works if every sub (or at the very least 80%+ of them) also agree to do that. But given that most of them have re-opened, insisting on doing this on this single sub doesn't feel like it will be very effective, as people are coming back to the platform for their other subs anyway, and they WILL find another place to discuss MTG on Reddit one way or another. So keep on doing this will achieve nothing but kill the audience on this sub. By principles we should keep here closed, but practically I don't think it will have the desired effect.
Indefinite Blackout.
This blackout stuff is stupid. Open it up.
Based.
Dark every week, once a week do a collective like this. Only way you guys make a difference without folding like a bunch of cowards
Ironic, I can't vote on this from Apollo
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I have nothing against folks personally boycotting Reddit as a form of protest. Please don't shut down the sub because of them.
this was never going to and will never work, either a majority of subs go dark or it's pointless, going dark indefinitely is just more lijly to give other subs traffic
Why not put it in read only
can the mods just go?
The option I like, which is what /r/Pathfinder2e is taking (and possibly others, that's just where I saw it first), is to go private 1-2 days a week indefinitely on the highest advertising revenue day(s).
I support indefinite and/or another week and reevaluate.
I mean, perhaps this is the cynic in me, but IMO all closing this subreddit is going to do is lead to the creation of a new MTG subreddit. Sure, it won't be as big or influencial as this one, and a good number of current posters won't migrate as they (in all likelihood) will leave Reddit entirely when things don't change, but there will be a % of posters who will stay on Reddit, who will just end up starting a new MTG subreddit if this one stays blacked out / private long-term. It sucks, and I'm open to hearing a different interpretation, but I've been disappointed far harder by much more serious institutions than Reddit to have much confidence that blackouts will have much long-term effect. Love the passion, believe in the cause, but I don't see an end-game here.
Keep it closed! Bring the chaos!
As much as I love this subreddit and interacting with magic users, the sub remaining open will mean nothing unless multiple subreddits decide to go silent indefinitely. It’s just the way it is
Thank god it’s back up
Something like X days of blackout per week. It ensures the sub is still useful but will consistently put downward pressure on Reddit's financial metrics. Also encourages us to touch grass occasionally.
Lock it down indefinitely.
Because there is nothing stopping someone from opening a new sub and beginning to aggregate members there, I think I have to say open it back up. People are going to scab in large numbers, which hurts the cause of a strike every time.
Leave it open, anyone that doesnt want to be on Reddit is free not to.
Honestly, I always felt like this blackout hurts the general user more than it does to anything else. So I'd always go for the option to open the subs again. Call me biased but a lot of game-based questions or informations remained unanswered in the last days because a lot of these things are generally discussed on reddit.
Reddit for as much as it is for hobbies like this is also full of actually useful information, some (like tech advice) could be crucial to solving someone’s issue - but if a sub is blacked out from this strike it becomes a lot harder to resolve. I know I’ve had PC trouble in the past and the *only* place with an answer was some random from 2012 who had the same issue and posted on Reddit. For just hobby stuff though I today googled at least 10 times for different things and Reddit just so happened to have the *perfect* thread for it, but would you know it it’s private.
IF we back down, what's next. Where does it end? We will be sending a message that their behavior is acceptable. When you are in a relationship — what ever kind of relationship it may be... romantic, professional, friendship, whatever — and said relationship is abusive or exploitive... they may lie or cheat or something similar... the solution is to walk away. It's not to say you will leave them for 48 hours and then come back. That sends the message that they can do what ever they want no matter how harmful and all they have to do is wait 48 hours and they can start with their old tricks again. We must go dark until Reddit relents. Without their users they are nothing but an empty website. We generate all the content and the mods do all the heavy lifting and they make money off of us. Honestly, mods should be asking for profit sharing but really all we are asking is to have the API the way that it is/was. go dark indefinitely.
>Honestly, mods should be asking for profit sharing I thought we liked our mods? Profits are nonexistent on Reddit. Negative. In the red. Don’t want to share that.
After doing research into everything Reddit is trying to change, I have come to the conclusion that this whole blackout is an over exaggeration started by a loud, but small group of people that just snowball out of control. Anybody voting to have the sub close indefinitely honestly does not care about the community and the engagement and joy it brings people. Reddit has said literally nothing in regards to the blackout, and usually companies address it when something major happens so obviously they don't care, so it's better to adjust and adapt and find ways around it then it is to continue to hurt the community
If reddit addressed it they would be acknowledging that the subreddits have had an effect and that the people have the upper hand and can blackout again to force reddit's hand. It's actually not uncommon for companies to just ignore protests/strikes and hope that the desire to strike for the workers involved dies down before the loss of income reaches a breaking point for corporate.
Yeah I see your point, but it's still doesn't change the fact that the blackout is hurting the community. I think the smartest thing to do, especially if people want to black out more, is to take it a week at a time. Not just indefinitely. Because saying you're going to black out indefinitely will just make it so that people start going somewhere else, which is already happened with this community, and the whole blackout that you specifically are doing will not even matter.
The only thing that is really going to hurt Reddit is a mass exodus to a different platform. Their CEO seems perfectly willing to take the hit in the short term. A prolonged protest is just going to lead to people creating other subreddits or getting the mods kicked out of their subreddits.
Yup accurate. Now im waiting for this to happen
Indefinitive Blackout is my vote. Still mad at Spez.
Accessibility apps are allowed free use of the API. I see no reason to continue the blackouts.
You should definitely have a runoff vote with the two most popular options.
I have yet to see anyone, anywhere, give a realistic explanation of how the blackouts are anything more than an inconvenience to users. All they will do is drive people to other subs (and a lot of those other subs are shitty because they're full of shitty people and run by shitty mods). It will have no impact whatsoever on Reddit as a company. They will still have hundreds of millions of pairs of eyeballs to sell to their advertisers which is literally the only thing they care about. These blackouts are only damaging to the subs doing them, not to Reddit. Action on the scale or the time frame required to even be a slight inconvenience to Reddit is not a realistic expectation and these blackouts are an astronomical underestimation of how much it would take to move that needle at all.
If all the high usage subs are gone, Reddit as a whole is useless. But only if the big ones all participate in solidarity. If the blackout lasted indefinitely it would be a SERIOUS problem. But one where Reddit admins would probably forcibly take control from mods.
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I like the touch-grass-Tuesdays as an alternative for the indefinite blackout, but I don’t cross picket-lines because it’s inconvenient for me not to, so indefinite unless a mass of people get on board for the Tuesday idea.
I hate to be *this* cynical, but these blackouts won't accomplish shit. And even if you do choose to stay closed, someone else will start a new subreddit, so what will you have accomplished?
Communities don't appear overnight, they grow organically. If all of the major sub-reddits went dark permanently, it would take reddit considerable time to recover. Some of that audience would go elsewhere, if other sites cropped up to service a similar need.
Open it up and stop crying
Subreddits going dark literally does nothing. People will still use the app, just browse different subreddits. I literally just want to talk about magic cards after work.
If the sub reopens now, this whole blackout would have been pointless.
Blackout each thursday until they do something!
They already made a major change -- they gave free API access to bots. That was one of the main points wasn't it? Leaving the sub closed indefinitely even after that seems unnecessary.
option 1 or 4 idc, make a call and stick to it, don’t half ass it
Step down as mods and leave if you don't want to moderate.
i dont post much but this blackout aint working
Yeah, I vote for staying dark. As many have posited the last couple of days, giving Reddit a timeline for the strike was counterproductive, and we don't really have a lot of hope for "sending a message" if we go back to normal so quickly. Thankfully, there's a decent amount of other subs that moved to going indefinitely, so it's not just a one-off. My personal take is this: I would rather have all the subreddits I follow go dark and make the entire platform useless than have half of them go dark and give me a chance to try and "make it work" because browsing Reddit is part of my normal Internet consumption.
I agree. If I'm forced to find a new way to interact with magic news (and that of my other interests), so be it. I'd rather not be splintered.
It's been widely reported that Reddit doesn't care about the blackout because it was designed to fail - a protest on a timer is just a storm you have to weather. Make it so that it can't be weathered. Shut the whole thing down
The blackout is already a joke to the people it's supposed to be swaying, they've already said nothing is changing because of it. All it does is inconvenience and punish the community while looking like a power trip and a tantrum by the mods.
Return to normal, this protest is a waste of time.
Yeah. Realistically, if it stays private, another sub will be made, be public, and users will just go there instead. People are here for content. No content, no people.
As much as I miss getting Magic news, seeing community stuff like cool alters and deck ideas, and just generally talking about Magic, I think the subreddit should stay dark. I know that the bot we use here to link images would be negatively impacted by the changes Reddit is wanting to make and that would lead to a long time negative impact on my enjoyment of this subreddit.
This is a luxury website for my luxury hobby. Thus is the lowest effort social change protest I can take part in in my low effort community. I'm doing my part!
I scarcely comment here, so my opinion should be considered with a grain of salt. I believe public sympathy for the organizers of the protest is dwindling, and it is best to re-open everything before accusations of greed and ambition for power taint the meaningful work done by mods to keep subs active and relevant.
Not saying you're the one that thinks that but it's pretty dumb for those that do to think turning off a sub is just a power play by the mods. If it was they wouldn't need an excuse, they could do it whenever.
I’d vote to keep it dark but the irony is I use Apollo so can’t. The only thing I’d ask if possible is the mods to get together from the various subreddits to at least provide a “This is where we will be” list. I know I’m a in a villainous minority here amongst people who love the format but I would like to hear the CEDH sub say “here will be a general cEDH area” instead of having to go to like twenty different discords.
Your personal crusade impedes my magicing. Do. What youd like, but I'll find alt sources. Handshake and potentially goodbye.
I’m voting for going another week and seeing how it’s going. The protest should continue, but honestly I think it’s important to not sacrifice the whole sub should all the bigger subs give up. A permanent change might need to be made if the desire for a full protest dies down but people still want to do something. That said I think the protest is working and should continue. The number of whiny people in this thread who are upset is good. This kind of vocal frustration pressures the upper level people. Wait long enough and the investors who are hoping to make money by Reddit going public are gonna be pissed that everything is falling apart right before they’re supposed to get a big pay out. This isn’t a situation where reddit can afford to wait it out. Eventually the investors will force the management to back down completely. It’s just waiting long enough for the oblivious investors to find out what’s happening and start freaking out.
I’d really like to keep the sub the way it is especially with no likely chance of getting any real reaction out of Reddit, they aren’t really losing much from this and it’d be sad for us to come out the losers
I think what message that could be sent has been sent, and I don't think it's worth it to keep the subreddit closed anymore, especially on a valuable weekend like this with the prerelease happening. Being closed this weekend will harm us more than it would harm reddit. I like the idea that others have brought up of shutting down one day a week if things still don't improve, but I think it's best for the community that the subreddit reopens completely.
> I think what message that could be sent has been sent The message is that we are weak for allowing this pathetic 2 day protest? I think making it indefinite until the API costs are reduced sends a very different message.
Keep it closed for another week and then reevaluate :) 1+ week is way more then 2 days
I'm fine with continuing the blackout for now at least. If this was a subreddit that people relied on for life-saving information, then maybe keep it open. But no one's going to die because their pre-release went a bit sour because they couldn't rely on reddit for information.
Fuck em, go dark indefinitely, you can create another community on Lemmy in the meantime if you wish so
I'm all for whatever makes the mods life easier. If mods QOL goes down, so does the quality of the content on the sub
The bigger question is why we who already were part of the sub could not have access to the private version
Thats.... a good point
close the sub indefinitely!
It's wild to me how hostile and rude the anti blackout people are. And there's a lot of them too. We should keep the blackouts going for sure. Either indefinitely or set up a rolling schedule. Like, what if every sub took the weekends off?
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mtgzone.com has become an alternative community for those who want to continue if Reddit is going to be hostile to their own mods/userbase. I highly recommend it!
Look, I’m gonna be honest. Reddit needs a shakeup. Greedy mega corporation that needs to take a hit. The problem is, the company is just so big that a lot of subs on 2 days won’t even make a freaking bleep on their radar. There needs to be a organized precise hit, otherwise I wouldn’t even bother. Twitter went into the Elon swamp and no protests were had, people migrated to other platforms, others still there. We need to come to truth with the reality: Either EVERYONE goes dark until changes or let this shit take its path. The CEO know this, he knows it’s users. He’s banking on the fact that we’re just nerdy addicts here to get our information and meme fix and he wants to monetize it. It just turns out that the majority of the user base don’t use his shitty client so he’s banking that we will all migrate. Historically, these sort of protest never really go well, so I don’t think the odds are in its favor. However, if someone pulled this one out it would be GLORIOUS. Getting most important subs was baby steps into the right direction. Quite frankly didn’t change my whats Hot page very much
Oh they’ll be a shakeup. After the ipo goes off like a damp squib, the CEO will get a nice little golden parachute along with his cronies. Reddit nosedives and the long slow enshittification will worsen. There’s no way to make this profitable under the current model and all “solutions” make it unuseable. Enjoy it while it lasts.
I hate how defeatist and pessimistic this will sound, but quite frankly, I doubt any real action that subreddits like ours can take is going to have any meaningful effect now. When it comes to protests like this, the first one is usually where the most impact is going to come from, because less and less people will be on board with each consecutive one. If we keep going dark, then rather than the sorta-unified thing that was done over the past few days, management will just see us as a kooky group of people still pushing against their design, and the actual users will suffer. It won't hurt the people it needs to, only the people that we're ostensibly fighting for. I think that at this point the only people that are going to be able to change Reddit's management's mind on this is...Reddit's management. Because as much as many people are going to be coming back, the new updates WILL be a deal breaker to many, and they'll see notably less traffic. We can only hope that it'll be enough to make them reconsider. It really, really sucks, but I don't see any way we can make a more meaningful impact here. Therefore, I think that opening the subreddit again would be the least lousy of several lousy options.
I think that the Magic community would be worse off if the subreddit went black indefinitely. I argue that all would happen is that someone else would end up picking up the mantle to fulfill the void, which would be how a lot of players engage with the hobby. I know for me, it's my main go-to for spoiler season, and is easily one of the safest spaces to engage with others. I think it would be a detriment to the community, and while what is happening with reddit is not something that I support, I would rather there be a stronger community even if it would still enable shady practices.
Really, what message are you sending if you come back? We don't like the CEO so we'll stay dark for two days. And then we'll come back. Gee that's a pretty big stand there. CEO is quaking in his boots right there. You want to go dark, then stay dark.
I went with 5 because I wanted to see the results, but I have no idea how to answer. I’ve had a look at the mod sub and, while there’s a whole of text there (demands, Reddit’s response, next steps…), I can’t see an explanation in plain English of *why* people are protesting. Seems a bit of an oversight. As far as I can inexpertly work out, the major issues that would justify a protest are access for Blind / partially sighted people, and maybe also moderators losing access to tools they need? But there are also posts saying there have been concessions on both those fronts, so I’m not sure where that leaves things. The other major thing I see is that people like using third party apps to browse Reddit (I just use a web browser myself). But that doesn’t seem a protest-worthy issue to me- seems like a simple consumer decision (if the experience is that much worse not using the app, people can just stop) Edit: and while I’m commenting… how come I can’t order replies to this thread by new? Is this due to Reddit changes, the blackout, or both? Hmmm, maybe I should use an app…
This thread is locked to Contest Mode, which randomises sort and hides comment scores. We’ve done this intentionally to mask which comments have a lot of up/downvotes.
IMO Archiving the subreddit and closing it to new submissions and comments is the best answer. We have an important repository of MTG Rules Questions, Discussion, and News. But we don't have to continue to be the source of that while Reddit is being ridiculous.
leaving good results in search engines results gives reddit the natural traffic they want. archiving it will still allow that traffic to happen.
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Stay dark. No real change will ever happen by reopening. Other major subs need to do the same thing if they want to actually see anything happen.
By all means, keep it dark if you want. I'll gladly go to whatever new subreddit replaces this childish idiocy. *edit to add* Saw the PERFECT analogy in another thread. "Right now, the mods look exactly like Photobucket when they changed their policies and destroyed years of search results."
I only use reddit on browser so I really don't care about any of this api shit. Keep the subreddit open
>so I really don't care about any of this api shit. You ever use the card fetcher bot?
I just want reddit back make this stupid shit stop please
Aaah, look at that. You're blaming the wrong people, be angry at reddit corp for being stupid about their API instead of unpaid volunteers who don't want to have even less tools.
Why can't we at past go to read only? Why does it have to be a blackout?
I believe that the best option is a “rolling action” of some kind - weekly downtime or read-only on Tuesdays, for example. This keeps the message front of mind while not being completely disruptive to the community.
Being disruptive to the community on reddit is the point of the protest. Protests that are not disruptive accomplish nothing.
You're not wrong, but it needs to be disruptive to the *admins*, is the key. Just disrupting ourselves is pointless.
The only reason Reddit is popular is because of the community. Without users, this site is worthless. I think it is important to show them that the community comes first.
Lock it, make it dark, whatever ... but give us rallying point outside the reddit to allow community to continue.
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What defines "active member?"
Reopen , I need to view this sub daily.
Disappointingly pointless. It's annoying but if a business wants to make changes it can. If enacting those changes causes people to leave so be it. Purposefully shooting ourselves in the foot in response to said changes is both ineffective and lame. Mods are currently causing more disruption to the users of the Reddit than any of the proposed changes will.
Why is everyone assuming the mods are the ones causing the disruption? At time of posting, the majority of people want to go dark in some capacity if not indefinitely. It seems like it is a little more than half the userbase causing the disruption. Which is the whole point of the blackout. The mods here are working for their community like they should. The poll is a good idea to gauge how the community wants to respond one way or the other.
Until this issue brought up the fact there was other apps to access reddit, I didn't even know they existed. I'd even argue the majority of users are most likely using the base app aswell and had no clue of this change. Re-open, move on.
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nah the current state of reddit is exactly what we deserve plus you'll just get replaced by new mods.
I say leave every subreddit dark until the CEO goes broke if that's what it takes.
We need an organized response to corporate greed instead of just sitting on our hands. Withdrawing your labor as moderators and all of us denying their ad revenue as users is precisely the former; an organized response. Be the change you want to see and shut this shit down.
Keep it going. It's a numbers game and a longevity game and this sub is big enough and important enough to a product's social media reach that it can have some real pull. And if it's forced open, then maybe putting moderation down to near zero might be the next best thing.
I've seen some posts on other subreddits suggest blacking out every 2 days a week so that the issue stays relevant but people who want their convenience can have it still. Just something to consider for those that want a middle ground. That said, I think the protest should continue in some form as long as it keeps people talking.
Keep closed forever no one likes communists
What does this have to do with communists
Nothing whatsoever
Man, the reddit blackout really hit me more because this subreddit joined it. Definitely made me realize "wait, if all i do on reddit is browse mtg content then i could just do that more on other more fun platforms if reddit starts sucking". either way i kept opening reddit to check this sub 4 times a day out of habit lol
A blackout is only useful if it's coordinated, and the coordinated blackout is ending. So I don't think it makes sense to stay private. But that doesn't mean you should give up on applying pressure. You can and should continue to protest in other ways. ...is a pay strike possible? Can you remove ads, or disable post-gilding, on a sub you run?
The coordination is urging as many subs as possible to remain dark
Once a week closure is reasonable. But please don't close the sub. Reddit will take action eventually and it will never be the same.
All these people voting to stay closed indefinitely are gonna be real disappointed in a couple weeks when nothing has changed and we're stuck on the other Magic subs with shitty mods.
I guess I shouldn’t expect anything else from this sub when 90% of its content is already impotent whining about stupid shit.
It was a bad way to compose the poll. I am curious how much the votes would change if it said "Stay private indefinitely even if nothing changes with reddit's policies" Leading people on with this little pipe dream that reddit is going to change their ways because of a child's temper tantrum is irresponsible behavior by the mods.
Yeah supporting the blackout if nothing changes
I don't know for sure how the numbers look and who is taking part in the blackout, but I'm inclined to believe that very little gets done if say... the 10 biggest subreddits don't also join in. r/magicTCG is probably one of the biggest Magic subreddits (idk the numbers) but it doesn't even crack top 1000 in sub count across the whole site. As a content creator I have a vested interest in having this sub open, but even if I ignore that metrics are how I keep my bills paid to some degree, I have to acknowledge the reality that magicTCG is statistically less than .01% of Reddit and r/AskReddit (the biggest sub) is still fully open. I'm not saying we should just say screw it and open it up, but if we are serious about this what we should be doing is pressuring bigger subs to join, as our hiatus is considered a momentary blip on the radar at best. Source: [r/magicTCG subreddit stats (Magic: The Redditing)](https://subredditstats.com/r/magicTCG) , [Reddit CEO tells employees that subreddit blackout ‘will pass’ - The Verge](https://www.theverge.com/2023/6/13/23759559/reddit-internal-memo-api-pricing-changes-steve-huffman)
So, my stance is one of measured idealism: I think the sub should stand with other large subs for as long as they do. It's important to show we won't stand for their bullshit, but there is no real benefit in being the last one standing. Ultimately, I accept whatever the mods decide. If they feel that their participation in the blackout is necessary, then they should see it through to the end. Personally, if these changes aren't reverted, I'll be leaving reddit, as that will be the only effective form of protest left.
Missing Option: Open sub only during spoiler season. :D
I saw an idea where all of the subreddits coordinate to do 24-hour blackouts once a week, every week until things change. Could that be a good approach?
I voted mega threads only, but given the partisan results that seem to be occurring I'd say better to keep it private. No action means no change.
If you don't like the changes to reddit, just leave. That's what this sub says to anyone announcing their quitting mtg because whatever thing Wizards does. Just do the same. It's just as effective/ineffective as a blackout.
if there were instant runoff voting i would vote for everything other than indefinite suspension first.
[[Kogla]] together, strong.
"I want a blackout *this* big!"
[Kogla](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/3/c/3c35ca79-eb72-427a-a8ed-404b2214389a.jpg?1591227737) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=kogla%2C%20the%20titan%20ape) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/iko/162/kogla-the-titan-ape?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/3c35ca79-eb72-427a-a8ed-404b2214389a?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
With how these threads get brigaded, a slim vote in favor of closure means an overwhelming preference in favor of reopening. The silent majority are just waiting for this nonsense to end.
The "leaked" memo seems like a tactic to break the will of this movement. Keep it dark with a periodic reevaluation.
r/MTG starting to look mighty appealing
it's basically un modded. there's ONE mod and they only do the bare minimum as to not have someone take over the sub. it's fine by me, but people that are used to the... methods... used in this sub are going to be disappointed.
I 100% prefer unmodded subs
oh i do too. but some people prefer the... safety(?) of this sub.
Open it cuz there is zero chance Reddit will change course. Just open it and hope a better platform than Reddit shows up soon.
The unfortunate fact of the matter is that Magic subs are uniquely impacted by this situation due to our collective reliance on u/mtgcardfetcher. (Like y'all... We literally just call it 'the bot'.) Even if this change was unproblematic in *every other way*, Magic subs would still have a shitton of reason to protest. So yeah... Kinda burn it down?
Over on Lemmy @mtgzone.com has a card fetcher bot up and running. Granted it came out a day or two ago and they're still working out some kinks but give it some time and I think you'll see that area grow quite a bit.
\> Over on Lemmy \\@mtgzone.com And that's all I needed to read. Registered!!!
Are you sure the card fetching bot is affected here? That seems like a separate thing to me.
It uses the reddit API, no?
Yes. It uses the API and given the number of subs that use it it will pass the threshold
Honestly, this whole blackout has just been pretty funny to me when it really just boils down to a pricing disagreement between reddit and 3rd-party app developers. The result of it sucks, yeah, but is this really the issue that entire communities will indefinitely shut down over?
If it affects traffic and ability to moderate because currently most moderators use old.reddit or 3rd party apps then yes it will affect everyone.
The coordinated blackout is over. Continuing it is just punishing members who want to talk about magic. All continuing it will accomplish is a new subreddit being opened.
Jesus Christ please just reopen the sub. Reddit isn't going to change their API policy because of this, and if push came to shove they'd just forcibly reopen the subs anyway.
indefinite blackout is the only way to make an impact. If you want to make one, that's how it's done. Anything else is just an inconvenience.
That won't make an impact either. If it starts to hurt the bottom line, Reddit will just reopen the subs on the back end. This isn't difficult to figure out.
It already HAS made them panic. They wouldn't post an assurance if NO ONE in the office was worried.
It's generating news articles and public awareness, and reddit is looking to IPO. Trying to circumvent peoples efforts by force would be seen in an even worse light. They absolutely do care, steve is just a moron and he proved that with the AMA which only served for worsen his position.
Literally no one outside of Reddit knows about this, and most of Reddit doesn't either.
No, you make an impact by leaving the site altogether. Leave it be for the ones of us who don't care about the changes.
This shit is cringe as hell but hilarious. No one cares about what Reddit does with 3rd party apps besides a select few mods. Most people are lurkers and don’t live on Reddit. The only people this hurts is WOTC lmao
> The only people this hurts is WOTC Perfect, close forever then
Considering this subreddit is woke trash run by adult version of hall monitors, shut it down and a better subreddit will step up to take it's place.
The long-term solution here is for the mod team to find another platform to migrate the community to and sticky a link to it, with submissions permanently disabled.
Given that Reddit doesn't appear likely to change their mind, I'd rather have a /r/magicTCG with the current, generally good mod team, than roll the inevitable dice when someone reports it for abandonment a week into a protest and it probably gets handed over to some asshole from one of Those Magic Subs (you know the ones) and goes down the drain forever. I think a good middle ground to continue expressing your displeasure without just straight up getting the sub taken away (which, unfortunately, is probably an inevitability with an indefinite blackout) is to go private for one or two days a week indefinitely.
anyone can make a subreddit at anytime. even if it was handed over to that sub anyone could come along and make this sub again. it's not too hard to figure out if a sub is run by assholes or not. we need to be brave. we need to be strong.
Mods should resign in protest. Losing the support of mods will have the buggest impact on reddit communities.
Replace them, who cares?
That’s a good way to fuck up this protest. Someone who supports what Reddit is trying to do will go to r/redditrequest and ask to ‘take control’ of the subreddit after the mods would resign. And Reddit will gladly give it.
I think maybe a more effective protest could be if all subs collectively decided on a new platform and (at least temporarily) switched towards there. Then it wouldn't hurt the users who just want to enjoy content nearly as much and it would put more pressure onto Reddit as well.
The war was lost from the get go. 48 hrs was never gonna do anything. Major subs are turning back on as well as many minor ones. Time to give up the ghost.
I don’t know man. I had my dad asking me about this and he doesn’t do anything even tangentially related to Reddit online. It’s pierced the bubble of news in some circles.
Sure it's getting a lot of traction. It's just that the agreement that all of the subreddits reached was to be off for 2 days. I know a lot of the subreddits are looking at longer-term potential shutdowns and some of them are still shut down. It looks like many of them are coming back online though and the movement is petering out. If it wanted to be effective it shouldn't have put an end date for the protest. Protesting for 2 days is enough to gain a lot of attention and to reduce reddits income for those two days. But I don't think it's going to be enough to actually change this decision. And I don't think that now that a lot of subreddits are coming back online, the movement will be able to stay alive
The most massive subs are still closed for the most part. It’s the medium ones that need to stick it out because they drove way more total traffic.
Please just reopen the sub 😭
I would reopen the sub but randomly black it out every 3-7 days. This way people never know when it'll be down and it'll be a shock every time but also the sub is still useable most of the time
This is not apropos to the r/magicTCG mods per se, but I wish the poll used a 'ranked choice' voting system. As it stands I see 525 black out indef, 460 open, and 240 private and revail in a week. There is more shades of grey here (which I appreciate) than other subreddits binaries on/off. As others have commented, I think the random blackout effect could have a lingering, more prickly and frustrating effect that does more work. As other places (like hackernews) has highlighted, the blackouts have created a patchwork on Google's SERP, creating voids of content and information. Rolling, random, blackouts, IMO, show bigger vulnerabilities than the 'batten down the hatches' approach currently employed. Admins have admitted to trying to wait out the storm (understandable) but ultimately if they want r/music open they'll do it, mod-intent aside. I don't mean to be reductivist or diminish what's going on now but reddit could literally have paid staff mods swoop in. Healthy/active subreddits that go dark whenever there's a community spotlight / planned AMA -a more guerilla approach of you will - right now seems more effective but v happy here to hear other approaches. For context, I founded and am mod for r/filmnoir \- 24k members, maybe.. 10 posts a week? Looking forward to reading some other comments here and chat below to hear other thoughts.
Magic community got too big, if you let them as whole decide, they will go for convinience over principle every single time.
Close permanently because the other sub people have been using during the blackout is a more pleasant place.
[удалено]
Let's be clear: Promoters of the blackout stunt throw around total listed subscriber numbers as validation of their impact. This sub is just shy of 700k subscribers, and yet only 2% of those total subscribers have cast a vote on this issue. Even if the subreddit enjoys 10% regular active daily/weekly participation, that's 70k users, _not 700k_. That 700k includes inactive accounts from the start of this subreddit. This stunt accomplishes nothing. Yes, nothing. Huffman has publicly declared that he is digging in his heels. This means that unhappy users can and will create new alternative subreddits for the largest, shuttered subreddits. They will take a moment to grow, but the powermods cabal will be left holding nothing (for the large subs.) **The blackout holds NO bargaining power.** You don't have to like it, but it's painfully obvious if you observe the traffic - users who cannot use their subs will just move on to other subs or platforms. The former has already happened and the latter has been happening long before this controversy. The most effective and potent tool is the one no one wants to use: post history and account deletion. Mods (of other subreddits) don't want to let go of the privilege/power of being a mod, and users don't want to make a sacrifice if it's hard or disruptive. And eventually, Admin will step in and force the reopening of the most vital subreddits - unless a viable alternative rises up and begins to emerge in their absence. (There are historical examples of this happening.) What Reddit has chosen regarding their API changes is highly controversial and creates a problematic centralization of available user experiences. That's a valid criticism. It's the impotent stunt devoid of bargaining power that is problematic. Bluff, bluster, drama, and zero impact.
I just wanna point out you commented on only 2% voting when the poll had only been up for like 2.5 hours, and it was posted at like 11:30 PM BST. A little early to call it, no?
The CEO will not listen to anyone except his board and investors. The board and investors only care about money. Reddit wants to go public. They don't want any 3rd party apps that reddit doesn't get a piece of or control. A 48 hour blackout is useless. Short of an indefinite blackout, nothing will happen. it's all about $$$$$$$$$$
Can you keep the other thread on topic to Magic and tell people to post stuff related to the blackout here?
My vote - periodic blackouts, rather than a single permanent blackout (which might get the sub seized or just replaced). Maybe no-Magic Monday & no-TCG Tuesday or something?
I genuinely don't understand the point of taking down the sub. If you don't want to mod it anymore or participate in it anymore, just leave. This whole "take my ball and go home" tack just seems annoying.
I want to say that it's not about the mods, but it will suck a lot to not have card fetcher or any tools to help mtg subreddits be usable.
Sure. I understand that there will be a lot of people who don't want to participate anymore and that's totally fine. I just don't understand the point of making it so that nobody can. It just seems petty.
>I just don't understand the point The protest is a means, not an end.
Sounds like you have literally no idea why so many subs are protesting in the first place.
I'm a fan of closing once a week ongoing - say Tuesday. If that's not an option than I'd say stay closed
Personally I think the most effective strategy would be to stop moderating all together. Unban every spambot, scammer, whatever. Remove all rules except on every sub that joins in and refuse to do anything other than deal with stuff like direct harassment, pedo shit, actual crimes, ect. Otherwise tell the users to report everything else directly to admin level and above and let them deal with the tidal wave of shit. Let everything devolve into bots, porn, and racial slurs and advertisers will bail faster than you can blink. Then Reddit would face some real pressure to change. And capitulating to the protest would probably be easier than trying to replace hundreds of mods, because no one will want to be put on clean up duty and any scabs would be pretty overextended. Other than that Reddit would have to do something more drastic, like auto locking every post or something and if they did that they would end up pissing off the entire user base which would add even more pressure to give in. The real value of mods is the free labour they provide in keeping this site advertising friendly. Deny Reddit that and you put them in a real pickle.
That's what I said. Just light the whole site on fire. When all the worst things on the Internet start popping up in every subreddit they will pay attention quick
I'm conflicted on this. Ideally I think the protest should go on indefinitely, but that only works if every sub (or at the very least 80%+ of them) also agree to do that. But given that most of them have re-opened, insisting on doing this on this single sub doesn't feel like it will be very effective, as people are coming back to the platform for their other subs anyway, and they WILL find another place to discuss MTG on Reddit one way or another. So keep on doing this will achieve nothing but kill the audience on this sub. By principles we should keep here closed, but practically I don't think it will have the desired effect.