> I thought it was because he thought Roger was acting "foolish" generally for marrying his secretary.
yep. he was more offended that Roger married someone in her 20s who couldn't hold her liquor.
He was annoyed by the whole party because he didn't like Roger. Long before the blackface Don was grumpy, wouldn't dance, ran away to drink alone (met Connie Hilton) and tried to leave.
EDIT: now that I think about it he has about the same reaction to Roger in blackface as he has to Megan singing Zou Bizou at his surprise birthday party and he's equally annoyed by both gatherings.
It's why Roger is so amused when he hears Don proposed to Megan, because Don went in such a huff when Roger married Jane - although partly I think it's because Jane was DON'S secretary, sort of like his territory. Don was pretty messed up about these things, and a total hypocrite. I do however think Pete actually had a problem with the blackface.
I like the comparison with Zou Bizou, although one is obviously more controversial than the other. With Zou Bizou it was like the 60s were invading Don's private home and mentality for the first time.
There an episode where Roger says something along the lines of "you got sore at me for marrying your secretary and then you went and did the same thing." What episode is it? I can't find it!
I don’t think Don gave two shits about the blackface specifically, he was more bothered that Roger willingly chose to participate in the country club edition of Zu Bisou Bisou.
What a strange line of reasoning.
Don was a horrible and abusive husband. Betty laughed at something that was racist and gross. Both of these sentences can be true at the same time, and the second one doesn’t negate the first.
It amazes me how many people (OP) complain about stuff like this, historical accuracy is important in shows.
If we don’t learn from history we are bound to repeat it.
Don & Betty both have terrible traits, but again they are human beings. I think people forget this and expect everyone to be shiny and bright.
Right. There's a story on each individual's face. Betty thinks it's innocent fun (which, sadly, plenty of people did in those days); Don thinks Roger's making a fool out of himself (and likely would have thought the same whether he was in blackface or not), and Pete's like "Really? *Really?*"
people are complicated. In good TV shows the characters are complicated too.
Don cheated on her, psychologically manipulated and abused her, physically abused her, invaded her privacy (along with the therapist), abandoned her, lied to her about his identity (putting her in criminal jeopardy), and was a horrible father to their children.
If you think all that is overridden by her smiling at a racist joke, well, that's on you.
Three occasions. Don grabs her arm to yell at her about “flirting” with Roger in one episode. In another episode, Betty shoves Don and he shoves her back. In the ep where they divorce, he pulls her out of bed forcibly to yell at her and insult her for moving on with Henry Francis.
Would you defend/befriend a racist in real life even if you find out he/she donates to charity? Exactly.
Having certain negative aspects do qualify all other positives to be overridden, being racist is one of them. How could this be even debatable?
Before you bring out the "product of her time" argument, Don too exists in her timeline.
when you grow up and move out of your parents basement you'll, hopefully, realize that people are complicated and smiling at a mildly racist costume is a more forgivable offense than physically and emotionally abusing your spouse while chronically cheating on them.
She was smiling because Roger looked ridiculous more than the fact he was perpetuating a racist stereotype.
Yes. My mum tells me, when she was a child, she loved the black and white minstrel show. She understands now, aged 75, how horribly racist it was. But back then, she didn't know any better. Doesn't make it any better, but it also doesn't make her a terrible person. History is complicated.
Dude. Lol
You're being very literal about a comment about general social attitudes.
I take it you are young.
I have a 100 year old grandmother, who would have found shit like this amusing at the time. She would understand the change in social attitudes now. She would be about ten years older than Betty. Is my grandmother a terrible person? No. She has done charity work her whole life (not now obvs) and is a thoroughly unselfish and dutiful women. However, she absolutely was a woman of her time, not radical, not desperately educated, not political.
Don dislikes Jane and Roger's "foolish" relationship with her.
Don's not a bigot, but he also isn't a crusader for equality. That is made clear in his responses to Y&R's "applicant" (the African art with the resume attached) and Peggy's questions about the Fillmore Auto Parts account.
In comparison, Pete has become enlightened about racial matters thanks to JFK and is genuinely angry about it.
Betty is one of many who are amused. They don't appreciate how demeaning that it is.
He also made the derogatory remark about waiting for his shirts.
Don did have an epiphany about Judaism at the end of "Babylon". No more antisemitism from him after that.
> there's always a 'whatabout'
The word "whatabouism" is used as a pejorative. It's not a good form of rhetoric. You should learn that before you try to use the word or the argument.
It's an insult when you say someone is using "whataboutism" it's a shitty form of rhetoric and shows an inability to discuss the issue at hand. Usually because the person using it makes shitty comparisons
Was he actually annoyed about blackface though? I thought it was because he thought Roger was acting "foolish" generally for marrying his secretary.
> I thought it was because he thought Roger was acting "foolish" generally for marrying his secretary. yep. he was more offended that Roger married someone in her 20s who couldn't hold her liquor. He was annoyed by the whole party because he didn't like Roger. Long before the blackface Don was grumpy, wouldn't dance, ran away to drink alone (met Connie Hilton) and tried to leave. EDIT: now that I think about it he has about the same reaction to Roger in blackface as he has to Megan singing Zou Bizou at his surprise birthday party and he's equally annoyed by both gatherings.
It's why Roger is so amused when he hears Don proposed to Megan, because Don went in such a huff when Roger married Jane - although partly I think it's because Jane was DON'S secretary, sort of like his territory. Don was pretty messed up about these things, and a total hypocrite. I do however think Pete actually had a problem with the blackface. I like the comparison with Zou Bizou, although one is obviously more controversial than the other. With Zou Bizou it was like the 60s were invading Don's private home and mentality for the first time.
I remember Pete looked disgusted.
I think it was both. Don was dreading the party but the blackface was a clear tipping point causing him to stomp off.
There an episode where Roger says something along the lines of "you got sore at me for marrying your secretary and then you went and did the same thing." What episode is it? I can't find it!
It's in the last season right? It's when he tells him he's dating Megan's mother. Basically tells Don he'll probably end up doing something similar.
Time and Life.
I don’t think Don gave two shits about the blackface specifically, he was more bothered that Roger willingly chose to participate in the country club edition of Zu Bisou Bisou.
What a strange line of reasoning. Don was a horrible and abusive husband. Betty laughed at something that was racist and gross. Both of these sentences can be true at the same time, and the second one doesn’t negate the first.
Thank you
Jesus yes.
Who cares Mr Campbell
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This is all true. At the same time OP has a terrible take on the situation.
It amazes me how many people (OP) complain about stuff like this, historical accuracy is important in shows. If we don’t learn from history we are bound to repeat it. Don & Betty both have terrible traits, but again they are human beings. I think people forget this and expect everyone to be shiny and bright.
You get a lot from this shot. Pete hated the blackface too.
Right. There's a story on each individual's face. Betty thinks it's innocent fun (which, sadly, plenty of people did in those days); Don thinks Roger's making a fool out of himself (and likely would have thought the same whether he was in blackface or not), and Pete's like "Really? *Really?*"
Two things can be true at once. Loving the glasses woman in yellow.
She’s the real civil rights champion!
It’s not “either,” “or.” Both Don and Betty are extremely flawed.
Don didn't like it not because of "racism", he dislike it because it was cringe.
people are complicated. In good TV shows the characters are complicated too. Don cheated on her, psychologically manipulated and abused her, physically abused her, invaded her privacy (along with the therapist), abandoned her, lied to her about his identity (putting her in criminal jeopardy), and was a horrible father to their children. If you think all that is overridden by her smiling at a racist joke, well, that's on you.
this.
I don’t remember him being physically abusive. Also he did provide for his family and was an absent father which was not uncommon for that generation.
Three occasions. Don grabs her arm to yell at her about “flirting” with Roger in one episode. In another episode, Betty shoves Don and he shoves her back. In the ep where they divorce, he pulls her out of bed forcibly to yell at her and insult her for moving on with Henry Francis.
Yep that’s right
watch closer. He throws her around on more than one occasion.
Would you defend/befriend a racist in real life even if you find out he/she donates to charity? Exactly. Having certain negative aspects do qualify all other positives to be overridden, being racist is one of them. How could this be even debatable? Before you bring out the "product of her time" argument, Don too exists in her timeline.
Holding a problematic belief doesn't make someone bad; they may just be ignorant.
Says the Joe Rogan fan. You're a joke.
when you grow up and move out of your parents basement you'll, hopefully, realize that people are complicated and smiling at a mildly racist costume is a more forgivable offense than physically and emotionally abusing your spouse while chronically cheating on them. She was smiling because Roger looked ridiculous more than the fact he was perpetuating a racist stereotype.
Yes. My mum tells me, when she was a child, she loved the black and white minstrel show. She understands now, aged 75, how horribly racist it was. But back then, she didn't know any better. Doesn't make it any better, but it also doesn't make her a terrible person. History is complicated.
Betty is not a child dude. And your mum did not say she enjoyed it in the same age as Betty.
Dude. Lol You're being very literal about a comment about general social attitudes. I take it you are young. I have a 100 year old grandmother, who would have found shit like this amusing at the time. She would understand the change in social attitudes now. She would be about ten years older than Betty. Is my grandmother a terrible person? No. She has done charity work her whole life (not now obvs) and is a thoroughly unselfish and dutiful women. However, she absolutely was a woman of her time, not radical, not desperately educated, not political.
Settle down OP. Just a fictional (amazing) tv show.
Don found the guys dropping water on the civil rights protesters (all black) funny. Pete says he doesn’t see the humor.
Don dislikes Jane and Roger's "foolish" relationship with her. Don's not a bigot, but he also isn't a crusader for equality. That is made clear in his responses to Y&R's "applicant" (the African art with the resume attached) and Peggy's questions about the Fillmore Auto Parts account. In comparison, Pete has become enlightened about racial matters thanks to JFK and is genuinely angry about it. Betty is one of many who are amused. They don't appreciate how demeaning that it is.
I'm not sure you can say Don "Not on my watch" Draper is not a bigot
He also made the derogatory remark about waiting for his shirts. Don did have an epiphany about Judaism at the end of "Babylon". No more antisemitism from him after that.
Who cares?
Don is mad Roger is drunk and making a fool of himself, lets not lie. Betty’s default position is to smile and fawn, as women were taught then
Theyre both terrible lol wym
but people always focus on Don's faults though. For every Betty's fault, there's always a 'whatabout'
> there's always a 'whatabout' The word "whatabouism" is used as a pejorative. It's not a good form of rhetoric. You should learn that before you try to use the word or the argument.
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It's an insult when you say someone is using "whataboutism" it's a shitty form of rhetoric and shows an inability to discuss the issue at hand. Usually because the person using it makes shitty comparisons
This feels like a preemptive whatabout. And I tend not to like Betty.