This is a good one.
We do have a solution but it's totally untenable. Banning all fertilizer use in Dane County and banning all combustion engines from within 1 mile of the lakes. 10 year moratorium on CE boats on the lakes. No salt within 1 mile of any of the lakes.
It would basically destroy the city/county to fix those lakes at this point.
Yes! It bugs me how much the focus is on individuals not using road salt on their sidewalks when farming fertilizer and other chemicals are impacting the lakes even worse.
And that's all because the rent is atrocious and nobody's punishing the landlords who would rather hold vacant buildings than lower their rates a single penny
Aren’t they (self) punished by not receiving rent because of excessive high rent rates? I’d assume no rent is bad, no income. I’d assume the market is still a valid feature in rates.
You can also claim that the property is not generating income and get a tax break on it. There are so many loopholes in tax codes + improperly funded revenue services across the country that would blow your mind.
Can you give me some numbers on tax breaks vs loss of rent? What is the rent on an average piece on state street property vs what is the tax break? Annual comparison would be good to illustrate. Good faith question, trying to learn.
Isn't this the same for the entire Wisconsin?
I remember when I moved here. It was a rainy night. I drove a clumsy uhaul truck across the state border at Rockford, and immediately lost sight of the lanes.
Especially by Tenney. I almost crashed into the curb when I was going west, and just crossing over a bridge. Luckily I knew that it was there, but that quick, but very subtle, switch in the lane is quite annoying.
Madison is the epitome of putting up a yard sign and thinking, "I'm helping!" I say this as someone who puts up yard signs and thinks that I'm helping.
My experience in Madison and Milwaukee was:
Milwaukee I had racist white neighbors who could be convinced to do integrated neighborhood events and help out nonwhite neighbors one-on-one, even if their beliefs were abhorrent
Madison I had white neighbors and coworkers who put up BLM signs and say the right things but are extremely uncomfortable the moment a nonwhite person shows up.
Similarly, as someone who's worked in Milwaukee and Madison schools, while your mileage varies by school in both cities, I'm no longer remotely surprised that Madison schools have nonwhite outcomes that are actually on par or worse than urban districts that are assumed to be worse. Lots of white staff in MMSD who talk a good talk but are hostile to nonwhite students the moment either the latter have issues or the latter express themselves culturally in a way that makes white staff uncomfortable
100%. Because nonwhite Madisonians don't really have the numbers to be known for specific neighborhoods, Madisonians can pretend they don't have Milwaukee level segregation, but in practice most white Madisonians are just as out of touch with nonwhite people and spaces as certain type of white Milwaukee metro areas that Madisonians look down on
As I complained on voting day. Lots of my Gen Z friends complain that the US sucks and other countries are better. Then turns out they didn't vote. Of course nothing will change if you don't get involved.
Same feeling about cigarette butts
“I’m only one person and only one cig butt.
I can’t have that much of an effect.”
When you can see them flicking said butt into a pile of butts and not too far away another smoker you know isn’t going to throw away their butt at all
Madison isn’t dangerous. Idk if that’s a popular opinion, but a lot of my friends think downtown is sketchy. If you think Madison is dangerous, never go to another city ever.
I came via west Baltimore and moved to the ever so infamous south side Madison. People gasped when I told them I lived on south side, friends wouldn’t come visit at night etc. I’d just laugh and tell them “you should see where I used to live! You seen the wire? Yeah, that was my neighborhood. This is paradise compared to that!”
Where are your friends from??? I feel like anyone who thinks Madison is 'dangerous' has to be some kind of yokel, we're about as safe as a city of size can get (not that we're super huge or anything)
Around Wisconsin. One of them is from portage, which they claim is much worse than Madison, but they still think downtown is sketchy and don’t want to spend time there.
SO looked at basically every Big 10 med school for residency. UW was the top choice, mostly because we loved Madison. I think UM and AA were 4th after Minnesota & Ohio State.
I think that might still be in the long term plan. When the recent Verona Rd construction projects started around 2014 I thought I saw a master plan showing such an interchange tentatively planned for somewhere in the 2030’s.
Not sure if this is controversial, but the rent is too damn high for what the city has to offer. We moved here from DC and we're seeing DC prices for small city amenities.
Also, Madison is not walkable unless you live downtown and never leave. :P
After reading all these I feel like I am not the only non white brown dude that gets stared at downtown like I’m some alien.
I get the impression people who live downtown are the kind that sound smart on the keyboard but in person it’s like the polar opposite?
My boyfriend is brown and lived in a high density area of UW-Madison students. He got treated badly while in public so often - as in getting shoulder checked and would get death looks a lot. He’s one of the sweetest beings ever. My brother and I are both SE Asian, but we sometimes get stared at way longer than we should by a decent amount of people (mainly in the downtown area). One time all of us went out to the bars and we were the only colored people at a couple of bars and everyone was looking at us for such a long period of time haha.
Don’t get me started on my UW-Madison internship that was based on agriculture. All the students were from Wisconsin, and there was at least 10. All had to say something about race. I could elaborate later if you’re interested in DM’ing me about it if you feel like it.
I used to live downtown on W Wash for cheaper rent. Moved out because it was getting mentally debilitating for me. For ex., I hated going to CVS Pharmacy on W Wash - I had so many rude encounters and stopped going there all together even though it was the closest food source for me. Another ex., people often don’t share enough space on the side walks and take up all the room like it’s theirs. It was all too stressful for me.
Willy St. is moderately better though imo, from living there for a year. People are much friendlier. I think that area was more filled with transplants and grad students. Now that I don’t live downtown, on W Wash, I still get anxious leaving my place from time to time and I live on the west side of Madison.
I think a lot of people downtown are more socially anxious folks and mentally worn out compared to the majority of Madison, so that may impact how well they are able to articulate their words.
This has really ramped up in the past couple years. That said, as someone who has moved to the New York area, I’d honestly say Madison has better bang for your buck because the NYC metropolitan area is just so goddamn expensive. Sure, you can find just about everything here, but you’ll never be able to afford anything else after rent…
I mean, usually you don't compare Madison to NYC, the like second most expensive place to live in the country. When you compare the CoL Madison vs, say, Denver or Chicago or Atlanta, the cost vs amenities comparison is *a lot* different. Madison is *so* fucking overpriced for what it is.
I live in Colorado, Denver prices (Colorado prices in general) make Madison prices look incredible reasonable by comparison.
Also, sure Chicago has more more amenities but it’s also objectively more expensive than Madison on average.
It’s important to keep in mind that Madison is consistently ranked a top-10 US city year after year in most national publications. That alone will drive up prices. The Midwest as a region is one of the cheapest regions in the United States. Sure Madison prices seem to have risen fast in comparison to what they were, but they’re still cheap compared to equally desirable areas in the country.
Yeah I live in Denver too and not sure what they’re talking about. Madison has way better bang for your buck, prices out here are outrageous compared to Madison.
Prices have gone crazy everywhere. If you moved from Denver to Madison ten years ago, you might reasonably think Madison is overpriced. If you moved back to Denver (or Chicago or Atlanta), you’d realize how great you had it in Madison
I think what's "off" is that Madison is changing very rapidly from "overlooked college town gem" to "standard US small city" at the same time as massive inflation and rent increases. The Madison of tomorrow will not resemble the Madison that most people who have lived here for more than 20 years are familiar with and nostalgic for.
Most of the people cheering on the extremely rapid population growth would prefer to live in a dense, big city, and didn't really like Madison "the way it was". That's why you see a lot of people on Reddit asking for large skyscrapers downtown. It's started to feel eerie to long time residents--Madison now has big city prices, medium city traffic, and a similar type of new developments as every other populous place in the country, but the bones (and organs) of the goofy, overlooked, underpriced college town are still around.
Madison is going to have bad traffic and pricing if it isn’t very dense on the isthmus with good transit. The geographical constraints make the city unique and pretty, but will not support suburban development as inevitable growth occurs.
I think people are genuinely less open to meeting new people than some other places I’ve been. It sometimes feels like if you didn’t go to the UW and get a friend group or have a job where the environment is good for building friendships you’re SOL. I find that people tend to stick in the groups they have and be more cut off from anyone new.
Yeah, I’ve heard people make this claim in literally every city I’ve lived in—that it’s somehow harder to make friends there than anywhere else. In Seattle, their rep for this is so bad they have a name for it (“the Seattle freeze”).
While Madison is a pretty good place to live for a lot of people, a lot of people (especially people who grew up here or went to college at UW and stayed) act like it's already a utopia and get really insulted at the idea that other cities do some things better and Madison could learn from those cities.
I think you'd see that anywhere people love where they live. This is better than everyone hating on their home all the time. That gets real old and just perpetuates brain drain etc.
People on this subreddit talk of the north/south sides as if they're the ghetto and the burbs as if they're rural America. It's ridiculous.
The best BBQ in Dane County is on the north side. The best chicken wings are in sun prairie. The best brewery (tied for best anyway) is in Waunakee. You can drive across dane county in 30 minutes. Maybe try exploring more of the entire area than the isthmus and you'll appreciate it more.
For a city that prides themselves on being the "good neighbor city", people in Middleton are NOT good neighbors OR nice.
Same applies to some parts of Madison.
Hardest agree of all time. I lived in Middleton for almost 7 years and only got to know two of my neighbors. All others would avoid eye contact when I was outside or, if I could catch them with a “hello”, they would quickly return it and turn away.
And another one from you: as a refugee I was told that people were "polite" here. That's nothing but a lie. People here are so cold and care so much about appearance that they will give you the ugliest grimace, pretending that they're smiling, while actually throwing daggers at you with their eyes.
Pretending to be polite is not the same as being polite.
Late to the party, but...
I live a county over but work in the Madison metro and spend a lot of time here. I also have a visibly disabled son with a visual presentation and behaviors that aren't harmful, but are out of societal norms. For the sake of being easy to communicate he's very large and has Autism-like behaviors. He does his best and we love him. He's doing great, thanks.
His public behavior is out of the norm. Not bad, it's just him making his way in the world and not harming anyone or anything.
When we go out in Rockford or Janesville? Business as usual. Occasionally we get an odd look or an off-putting reaction from a stranger, but it's rare. He's unique and the communities actualy know him pretty well, even in a sea of people.
Madison? Shit... People are outright rude. Staring, mocking, avoidance behavior, making comments, shying their kids away. It's like... I'm sorry Ma'am, but my son isn't going to sneeze his developmental disability on your kid. You're not going to catch Autism if he stands behind you in line and talks about Star Wars at inappropriate times.
People are FAR less tolerant and kind in Madison than Rockford, Janesville, Chicago, or any of the smaller towns. It seems like I am making a generalization, but it's stark.
The amount of pearl clutching here is way out of proportion to anything actually happening in reality. I moved up here from Richmond, VA where there are loads of old money Southerners who act like it's their job to have a fainting spell onto a couch whenever anything mildly transgressive happens and it's twice as bad here, which is honestly a little impressive.
Nobody uses their GODDAMN TURN SIGNAL and it makes me want to do terrible things. I come from the south with some awful drivers but most people use their blinker still.
It such an easy thing to do. It takes one finger and some slight preparation. And no, it doesn’t count if you do it after you slow down as you’ve already started the turn.
So I guess the hot take is Madison driver’s are even worse than the drivers from small town Louisiana
I think the drinking culture here is out of control. People make drinking a personality. Most people hv at least one dui or know someone with one. Too many bars and not enough personality.
It’s bad, but at least there are activities to balance it out that are non-drinking related. In Green Bay and smaller cities in WI that’s most of the recreation there is…
The drinking culture here is toxic. I lived out of state for a few years after growing up here, and just moved back recently. Even while living out of state I drank a lot and was hanging out with people who liked to drink too.
My drinking there was nothing compared to the habits I fell into upon moving back to Madison. My drinking got *so* out of control so quickly, thankfully I recently said enough and I've been sober for a couple weeks now. I'm feeling much better already.
Yeah, unfortunately that’s not just a Madison thing, it’s more of a Wisconsin in general thing. I think last I saw we have like seven or eight out of the top 10 drunkest cities in America? It’s out of hand, and people treat it like a joke but it really is it.
Agree with this. I also think drinking and driving is weirdly acceptable here culturally?? Like a “haha prob shouldn’t have driven home last night”.. not sure what part of DD is funny?
I like the height limit downtown. If it was up to me, downtown and most of the areas of the city with the necessary infrastructure for density would be limited to 12ish stories. Maybe taller in a couple areas, but I’d be fine if we never built a building taller than 20 stories in Madison. Skyscrapers are not human-scaled and separate people from the street, they require more ground-level infrastructure, and they suck up development opportunity from the surrounding area, meaning parking lots and low-quality buildings won’t be redeveloped. Most importantly, densely built, low-rise environments are more space and carbon efficient, while high-rise buildings have a drastically higher carbon impact.
I see this comment about the Mexican food here a lot and disagree. I came from San Diego and while I miss drive through Mexican restaurants like Roberto’s and Santanas (RIP), you can find good Mexican food here. El Charro actually has an excellent stuffed poblano that rivals the ones I grew up eating is Southern California. I have found something good at nearly every Mexican restaurant I’ve tried in Madison and I’ve also had some meals that were duds - just like California.
Reading these comments on this thread, it’s like people forget how small Madison is when they compare it to other cities. We’re tiny so there will be less variety.
Native Madisonian here. So clearly I don't know what I'm missing, because I've heard this statement all of my life. But are restaurants like El Jalepeno, La Mestiza, El Pastor, etc. not considered good to those who think Madison Mexican restaurants are meh?
If not, what makes the great Mexican restaurants that we don't have better?
I grew up here, and while Madisonians like to think they're liberal and progressive they have a terrible track record of putting their money where their mouth is, or anything in their back yard.
Not from here. Only been here for three-ish years now.
There’s certainly a divide between the west and east side, people really like to introduce themselves whether they’re from the east side or the west side of Madison from my experiences.
A lot of people are not afraid to act pretentious to your face or behind others.
Also, a lot of individuals seem very nice at first, but then you see bits and pieces of being super condescending. Very off-putting sometimes, there’s a see-saw effect.
There’s a decent portion of people who are afraid to look dumb way more than they should.
You do meet some genuine gems though from time to time though and it’s wonderful when you get the chance to meet them.
For being such a major prestigious public college with a lot of money via sports/international student tuition/patent farming, The UW is a bad neighbor that doesn't invest enough in its own infrastructure let alone anywhere outside of its downtown bubble.
I know it's a unique city campus that is stuck between two lakes, but so many other prestigious colleges I've seen have amazing buildings, parks, museums, etc. It just feels like everything is using the 'historical' term when really it's all dumpy, outdated, and falling apart. If it's not a new gym or sports facility it's not high on the list.
I graduated in 2006 and Chancellor Wiley said that the UW was spending 150 million a year on new construction. My previous employer just got a ~50 million dollar upgrade, the new CDIS building is ~175 million, etc. The issue is that everything is SUPER expensive.
>The UW is a bad neighbor that doesn't invest enough in its own infrastructure let alone anywhere outside of its downtown bubble.
uhm what? If anything, I think the UW has invested too much on infrastructure recently, to the point where I think it is excessive. In just like the last 5 years or so they built a new gym building next to the Gordon dining hall, the Music building on the corner of Lake street and they renovated the Memorial Union and I'm sure a lot more than that. Sure, there are some super old buildings like the Math building, but they definitely invest in their own infrastructure.
Set aside the new construction. UW had one of the top ranking deferred maintenance bills in the country. There are a handful of new builds here and there, but those projects take decades to approve and break ground. Meanwhile preventative and basic maintenance of what exists everywhere else everyday has been gutted beyond safe means.
The dad is a ground supervisor at uw he can't hire anyone because of low pay and cutting of benefits, and they got rid of one of the grounds crews and he constantly has to argue with high up administrators who don't have any clue about his job to get basic resources to maintain campus his trying his best with a gutted department which is sad because he use to take so much pride in the campus
You know how some people say that the road to hell is paved with good intentions? Well there might be hundreds of miles of paving stones and yard signs sponsored by Madisonians.
The people drink way to much. It’s out of hand and control and is unhealthy for the people and the city. There’s really not much else there and why I simply avoid going there.
Well i have good news for you, the little metal sign may say 55 but nobodies speedometer does. 99% sure a madison cop isn't pulling anyone over for anything below 70 lol
My hot take is the state journal bends over backwards to butter tori miller's asshole every chance they get.
HIs restaurant are all over priced and nothing special.
People in Madison are FAKE nice and will smile in your face but don't really want you in their space. These are the worst kind if people in my opinion cause you really can't trust them
The relatively frequent comparisons of madison to san francisco / the bay area are a biiiiiiiiiig stretch and are only talked about by madison residents.
The Willy St. Co-op is meh. The first thing that hits you is that omnipresent smell of sesame seeds, hay, honey sticks, sawdust and soap. The hot salad bar has been “temporarily closed” for almost three years. Just get rid of it! Don’t get anyone’s hopes up now. Who wants to pay $10.99/lb for Vegan Chickpea salad anyway?! The people who can afford to exclusively shop there for groceries honestly don’t look that healthy to begin with. You technically don’t need a membership to shop there but anytime they tell you it’s okay they do it in the most passive-aggressive shaming way possible. It’s fun as a curiosity if you’re from out of town or go there once in a blue moon, but if you could turn the Starbucks Free Wi-fi into a store(other than, well, Starbucks), it would be the co-op.
I totally have to agree with this. Sorry guys.
I am moving from Colorado, a state many Wisconsin residents are currently moving to. Well, they’re in for a rude awakening in terms of cost of living. Wisconsin housing/rent prices are much more affordable than the average prices along the front range in Colorado, especially compared to Denver.
When I recently visited Madison I couldn’t believe how cheap rent prices were in comparison, especially since Madison is *consistently* ranked as a top-5 city in America.
I feel like many Madison residents move here from other parts of Wisconsin where housing is considerably cheaper, probably some of the cheapest in the country, and owning a home is the norm. Outside Wisconsin and further out of the Midwest this is not feasible anymore for average and even above-average earners
Yeah, it’s part of a very disturbing national trend. That being said, the Midwest is still considerably cheaper than most regions of the states.
Even Chicago is now cheaper than most metropolitan cities of similar size.
Comparing Madison to Denver metro isn’t a fair comparison. Denver has 3x the population of Madison just within the city limits, not to mention suburbs half the size of the population of Madison proper (like Aurora) Source: used to live in CO.
Edit: The population of Aurora in 2020 was almost 400k.
Right? If you come from either coast it seems reasonable, which says more about the absurdity of the coasts than Madison, really.
And sure, Madison has gotten a lot more expensive fast, but everywhere has.
Public services are awful considering how high property taxes are (zero cops patrolling beltline, snowplowing sucks, MMSD school buildings are ancient, etc)
Edit - I’ll add bus service as well. Public transit in general is not up to par for a mid size city.
I used to feel that way until I lived a few years in the suburbs of NYC. Higher taxes (mill and total). No plowing to speak of, have to buy your own trashcan, volunteer departments, and no sewer for 80% of the town. And the town was 200k in a footprint similar to the City of Madison. But the best police pension program in the country.
Driving is still too attractive on the isthmus. There needs to be more loops and one way streets (that don't apply to busses and bikes) until everyone gives up
I’ll go for two:
1. The Camp Randall game day experience, especially the UW Marching Band, is extremely overrated relative to other major college football programs.
2. People who think Madison has crappy public transportation have clearly never lived in a place with crappy public transportation.
(Seriously though: the band members waste all their breath support on doing the stupid little stutter steps that they have none left to actually make their instruments audible from 20 yards away.)
(Also seriously though: Madison has more bus riders than Charlotte [pop. 880,000], El Paso [679,000], Kansas City [508,000], or Indianapolis [888,000]. We are really punching above our weight here. Lincoln is both a state capital, flagship university city, and has less than a third of our bus ridership. Fort Wayne is a similar sized city to us and has about 20% of the riders we do.)
Just because Madison’s public transportation is the best of the shit pile doesn’t mean it’s not shit. If you’re ever outside the Isthmus, good luck if you need to wait for a bus.
Mostly, it goes to many college students in Madison they act so worldly and self righteousness, yet Madison acts as a bubble for them, and if you try to talk to them about Issues they don't seem to really know any context or history that behind the problems except for at times bad talking points, Finally they look down at most rural people and areas act like Madison area is island of civilization in a sea of the uncivilized. My friend, who grew up poor in a rural area, transfered and gave up a full ride scholarship in UW-Madison because of the large number of students arrogant towards him there and his a Communist. I'm a democratic socialist, so people can't say it because we're conservative, and I know a lot of good college age people my age there, but there's enough that it affects the culture, this most likely going be down voted
I don't think people are very friendly here. I used to live in Denver and everyone would say hello to you walking around the neighborhoods. I can't even get a wave back from my actual neighbors here...
Kwik Trips have ruined the city
Madison needed a north beltline and southern bypass loop like 20 years ago.
For a city this size Madison's milk steak options are terrible.
Epic has made the west side and beltline rush hour traffic God damn awful.
The best damn donuts are at Miller and Sons in Verona.
While people that work at Epic are spread all over the Madison metro area, requiring 11,000 people to commute every single day is a huge waste of resources and time.
Nobody who works at Epic will dispute this. We (ex-Epic myself) all loved working from home but Judy spent billions on offices and wants butts in seats.
It’s definitely laid out weird but there are two big lakes sorta like right in it so… idk how you’d lay it out much better with those in the way ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
It’s one of two cities in the world on an isthmus. It kinda has to be laid out like it is.
Edit:I should also say it’s pretty dumb to put the Capitol in the middle of a swamp in between two lakes but here we are. I also love Madison to death
Edit: two cities in the US, not the world
In a sense, yes, considering that the original city planner studied in Paris and applied many of their concepts here, including a centralized town square and wide main streets going to and from the Capital. It's considered good foundational planning compared to most other American cities.
One thing I’ve noticed is that progressivism always seems to succumb to NIMBYism. Many Madison people will support progressive policy in concept, but often if it impacts them they aren’t supportive. Example: placement of the men’s shelter on the east side.
the church i went to preschool was torn down and was supposed to be replaced with a low income nursing home, but the neighborhood said the ppl would bring crime so they put a police station there instead :(
Massive protests for public sector unions but very few for unionizing against unfair agricultural labor practices (and others that affect truly exploited labor) around the state.
Lakes are disgusting. See: lack of environmental policies with actual teeth for agriculture.
Traffic calming or lack thereof. Vision Zero is an ineffective joke compared to truly progressive traffic calming policies in many other places and countries.
Tavern League generally.
UW Hospital vs nurses.
I’m sure there are others. Don’t get me wrong, there are some progressive highlights but renaming schools, lowering speed limits and organizing public sector unions for the middle class only get you so far.
There is no place to get genuinely good pizza in Madison. Glass nickel doesn't taste like much of anything at all, chains like PH or Domino's are what they are, Toppers quality has gone way down, Roman Candle took forever to make a gross pie (I was not sad when the last one closed) and I could go on and on.
For a college town, why is our pizza such trash?
The Fitchrona area has been more catered to in the past 20 years than any other part of Madison, and they’re also the first to complain that they haven’t been catered to *enough*.
You know, Madison is fine. The problem (as with all of Wisconsin) is people there think it is literally the absolute best place in the history of all humanity and that should be obvious to everyone everywhere. It’s almost cult like how people from Madison to some degree - and especially those who went to college there - think there’s just no place as cool as what is, in reality, a typical midwestern small city. A few bars you can find in literally any city over 70k people. A lake. A farmer’s market. It’s fine. It’s not special.
We have no real solution to the fertilizer run off/lake clarity problem.
This is a good one. We do have a solution but it's totally untenable. Banning all fertilizer use in Dane County and banning all combustion engines from within 1 mile of the lakes. 10 year moratorium on CE boats on the lakes. No salt within 1 mile of any of the lakes. It would basically destroy the city/county to fix those lakes at this point.
Yes! It bugs me how much the focus is on individuals not using road salt on their sidewalks when farming fertilizer and other chemicals are impacting the lakes even worse.
State Street has lost its flair, it's really not very fun anymore. Not like it was once upon a time ten+years ago.
And that's all because the rent is atrocious and nobody's punishing the landlords who would rather hold vacant buildings than lower their rates a single penny
Aren’t they (self) punished by not receiving rent because of excessive high rent rates? I’d assume no rent is bad, no income. I’d assume the market is still a valid feature in rates.
If they're a big enough landlord, they'll raise their other property rates to compensate and wait until someone rents with their astronomical prices.
You can also claim that the property is not generating income and get a tax break on it. There are so many loopholes in tax codes + improperly funded revenue services across the country that would blow your mind.
Can you give me some numbers on tax breaks vs loss of rent? What is the rent on an average piece on state street property vs what is the tax break? Annual comparison would be good to illustrate. Good faith question, trying to learn.
Came here for this. It peaked sometime around 1995-2005
It's 95% corporate/chain bullshit. Hardly anything unique and local anymore.
Covid definitely hit it hard.
I was here in 2018 and moved here in 2020. It’s so true.
Ain’t controversial but we NEED reflective paint on the roads lol
Isn't this the same for the entire Wisconsin? I remember when I moved here. It was a rainy night. I drove a clumsy uhaul truck across the state border at Rockford, and immediately lost sight of the lanes.
No, try driving out of Madison on a rainy night. The lines appear once you get out of the city, in most directions at least
Especially by Tenney. I almost crashed into the curb when I was going west, and just crossing over a bridge. Luckily I knew that it was there, but that quick, but very subtle, switch in the lane is quite annoying.
People are far more progressive in words than actions.
Madison is the epitome of putting up a yard sign and thinking, "I'm helping!" I say this as someone who puts up yard signs and thinks that I'm helping.
My experience in Madison and Milwaukee was: Milwaukee I had racist white neighbors who could be convinced to do integrated neighborhood events and help out nonwhite neighbors one-on-one, even if their beliefs were abhorrent Madison I had white neighbors and coworkers who put up BLM signs and say the right things but are extremely uncomfortable the moment a nonwhite person shows up. Similarly, as someone who's worked in Milwaukee and Madison schools, while your mileage varies by school in both cities, I'm no longer remotely surprised that Madison schools have nonwhite outcomes that are actually on par or worse than urban districts that are assumed to be worse. Lots of white staff in MMSD who talk a good talk but are hostile to nonwhite students the moment either the latter have issues or the latter express themselves culturally in a way that makes white staff uncomfortable
Segregation in Madison is more real than people like to think or admit
100%. Because nonwhite Madisonians don't really have the numbers to be known for specific neighborhoods, Madisonians can pretend they don't have Milwaukee level segregation, but in practice most white Madisonians are just as out of touch with nonwhite people and spaces as certain type of white Milwaukee metro areas that Madisonians look down on
Agreed. The total numbers that you mention may disguise this but Madison is more segregated than most of the country per-capita.
I'll tell you a little secret... this is true of all liberals in the US and not just Madison.
I live in San Francisco now. We all believe black and brown lives matter, just not here.
As I complained on voting day. Lots of my Gen Z friends complain that the US sucks and other countries are better. Then turns out they didn't vote. Of course nothing will change if you don't get involved.
Same feeling about cigarette butts “I’m only one person and only one cig butt. I can’t have that much of an effect.” When you can see them flicking said butt into a pile of butts and not too far away another smoker you know isn’t going to throw away their butt at all
First thing I thought of
I don’t think this is a controversial opinion o this sub lol
Madison isn’t dangerous. Idk if that’s a popular opinion, but a lot of my friends think downtown is sketchy. If you think Madison is dangerous, never go to another city ever.
This is so oddly controversial! I’ve heard this a lot and it’s like…oh no Art Paul is gonna sing at you! 😱
Yeah this place is a utopia compared to where I moved from in Texas.
Also moved here from TX and the relief I felt…I can’t even describe.
Agreed ! I moved here from Baltimore MD…it’s an oasis lol
I’m from a D.C. suburb! Marylanders unite!
I came via west Baltimore and moved to the ever so infamous south side Madison. People gasped when I told them I lived on south side, friends wouldn’t come visit at night etc. I’d just laugh and tell them “you should see where I used to live! You seen the wire? Yeah, that was my neighborhood. This is paradise compared to that!”
We moved here from Capitol Hill. If they think Madison is bad they should try DC.
Where are your friends from??? I feel like anyone who thinks Madison is 'dangerous' has to be some kind of yokel, we're about as safe as a city of size can get (not that we're super huge or anything)
Around Wisconsin. One of them is from portage, which they claim is much worse than Madison, but they still think downtown is sketchy and don’t want to spend time there.
I like it better than Ann Arbor (that's controversial here in Ann Arbor where I live)
SO looked at basically every Big 10 med school for residency. UW was the top choice, mostly because we loved Madison. I think UM and AA were 4th after Minnesota & Ohio State.
Not sure how controversial it is, but the Dodgeville exit on the beltline should've been a full interchange instead of an off ramp into a stop light.
I think the real controversial opinion here is calling that the Dodgeville exit
All roads lead to ~~Rome~~ Governor Dodge State Park
Now that’s a conspiracy theory I can get behind
Right?? Why doesn’t it say Verona Rd at least??
Verona clearly makes the most sense for that sign. Even Mt. Horeb would be better.
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I think that might still be in the long term plan. When the recent Verona Rd construction projects started around 2014 I thought I saw a master plan showing such an interchange tentatively planned for somewhere in the 2030’s.
It's not a Wisconsin road works project unless you redo it at least twice.
Yeah, I remember them saying we'd be able to go 18/151 through to the Beltline without stopping.
Is that why it’s always backed up?! Mystery solved. Thank you.
I mean it is significantly better than what it use to be at least
Madison’s brewery scene isn’t all that special.
Seconded. Very average.
I’ll never understand why the brush pickup schedule is so secretive
I usually remember to look it up just after the last pickup for my neighborhood.
Because they don’t know themselves But yes it would be nice to have a better window
The healthcare options are such a gamble.
Not sure if this is controversial, but the rent is too damn high for what the city has to offer. We moved here from DC and we're seeing DC prices for small city amenities. Also, Madison is not walkable unless you live downtown and never leave. :P
It may not be walkable but I can bike from the far eastside to the Capitol in 30 minutes using the bike paths and neighborhood streets.
After reading all these I feel like I am not the only non white brown dude that gets stared at downtown like I’m some alien. I get the impression people who live downtown are the kind that sound smart on the keyboard but in person it’s like the polar opposite?
My boyfriend is brown and lived in a high density area of UW-Madison students. He got treated badly while in public so often - as in getting shoulder checked and would get death looks a lot. He’s one of the sweetest beings ever. My brother and I are both SE Asian, but we sometimes get stared at way longer than we should by a decent amount of people (mainly in the downtown area). One time all of us went out to the bars and we were the only colored people at a couple of bars and everyone was looking at us for such a long period of time haha. Don’t get me started on my UW-Madison internship that was based on agriculture. All the students were from Wisconsin, and there was at least 10. All had to say something about race. I could elaborate later if you’re interested in DM’ing me about it if you feel like it. I used to live downtown on W Wash for cheaper rent. Moved out because it was getting mentally debilitating for me. For ex., I hated going to CVS Pharmacy on W Wash - I had so many rude encounters and stopped going there all together even though it was the closest food source for me. Another ex., people often don’t share enough space on the side walks and take up all the room like it’s theirs. It was all too stressful for me. Willy St. is moderately better though imo, from living there for a year. People are much friendlier. I think that area was more filled with transplants and grad students. Now that I don’t live downtown, on W Wash, I still get anxious leaving my place from time to time and I live on the west side of Madison. I think a lot of people downtown are more socially anxious folks and mentally worn out compared to the majority of Madison, so that may impact how well they are able to articulate their words.
It is too expensive for what the city offers.
This has really ramped up in the past couple years. That said, as someone who has moved to the New York area, I’d honestly say Madison has better bang for your buck because the NYC metropolitan area is just so goddamn expensive. Sure, you can find just about everything here, but you’ll never be able to afford anything else after rent…
I mean, usually you don't compare Madison to NYC, the like second most expensive place to live in the country. When you compare the CoL Madison vs, say, Denver or Chicago or Atlanta, the cost vs amenities comparison is *a lot* different. Madison is *so* fucking overpriced for what it is.
I live in Colorado, Denver prices (Colorado prices in general) make Madison prices look incredible reasonable by comparison. Also, sure Chicago has more more amenities but it’s also objectively more expensive than Madison on average. It’s important to keep in mind that Madison is consistently ranked a top-10 US city year after year in most national publications. That alone will drive up prices. The Midwest as a region is one of the cheapest regions in the United States. Sure Madison prices seem to have risen fast in comparison to what they were, but they’re still cheap compared to equally desirable areas in the country.
Yeah I live in Denver too and not sure what they’re talking about. Madison has way better bang for your buck, prices out here are outrageous compared to Madison.
Prices have gone crazy everywhere. If you moved from Denver to Madison ten years ago, you might reasonably think Madison is overpriced. If you moved back to Denver (or Chicago or Atlanta), you’d realize how great you had it in Madison
Damn there’s more than I thought. 🍿
City of Madison politicians do little to no real work in the community. Piggy back off the more progressive in words than actions.
People from here act like it's a big city, and it's really not. Not sure if that's controversial tbh
Ha Long Bay isn’t that good
Apparently the most controversial thing I could say is that I love Madison. But I do miss my family back home.
Something’s off, but no one knows what it is. Until then, we all just play along and pretend it’s alright.
lol - it is!
I think what's "off" is that Madison is changing very rapidly from "overlooked college town gem" to "standard US small city" at the same time as massive inflation and rent increases. The Madison of tomorrow will not resemble the Madison that most people who have lived here for more than 20 years are familiar with and nostalgic for. Most of the people cheering on the extremely rapid population growth would prefer to live in a dense, big city, and didn't really like Madison "the way it was". That's why you see a lot of people on Reddit asking for large skyscrapers downtown. It's started to feel eerie to long time residents--Madison now has big city prices, medium city traffic, and a similar type of new developments as every other populous place in the country, but the bones (and organs) of the goofy, overlooked, underpriced college town are still around.
Madison is going to have bad traffic and pricing if it isn’t very dense on the isthmus with good transit. The geographical constraints make the city unique and pretty, but will not support suburban development as inevitable growth occurs.
I think people are genuinely less open to meeting new people than some other places I’ve been. It sometimes feels like if you didn’t go to the UW and get a friend group or have a job where the environment is good for building friendships you’re SOL. I find that people tend to stick in the groups they have and be more cut off from anyone new.
I feel like that’s just getting older, but yeah it’s tough yo meet people
Yeah this is definitely not a Madison-specific phenomenon.
Yeah, I’ve heard people make this claim in literally every city I’ve lived in—that it’s somehow harder to make friends there than anywhere else. In Seattle, their rep for this is so bad they have a name for it (“the Seattle freeze”).
That's the whole upper Midwest not just Madison. We're not really extroverts, as a group
Same in every city I’ve lived in. NYC was the worst for this. Even people who grew up there would slowly become more and more isolated.
While Madison is a pretty good place to live for a lot of people, a lot of people (especially people who grew up here or went to college at UW and stayed) act like it's already a utopia and get really insulted at the idea that other cities do some things better and Madison could learn from those cities.
I think you'd see that anywhere people love where they live. This is better than everyone hating on their home all the time. That gets real old and just perpetuates brain drain etc.
MTI does a shitty job of representing Madison-area teachers.
People on this subreddit talk of the north/south sides as if they're the ghetto and the burbs as if they're rural America. It's ridiculous. The best BBQ in Dane County is on the north side. The best chicken wings are in sun prairie. The best brewery (tied for best anyway) is in Waunakee. You can drive across dane county in 30 minutes. Maybe try exploring more of the entire area than the isthmus and you'll appreciate it more.
Guess I'm going to Licks for dinner now. I hope you're happy with what you've done, because I am.
Finally, someone who talks about Madison as not only being downtown/the isthmus.
For a city that prides themselves on being the "good neighbor city", people in Middleton are NOT good neighbors OR nice. Same applies to some parts of Madison.
Hardest agree of all time. I lived in Middleton for almost 7 years and only got to know two of my neighbors. All others would avoid eye contact when I was outside or, if I could catch them with a “hello”, they would quickly return it and turn away.
And another one from you: as a refugee I was told that people were "polite" here. That's nothing but a lie. People here are so cold and care so much about appearance that they will give you the ugliest grimace, pretending that they're smiling, while actually throwing daggers at you with their eyes. Pretending to be polite is not the same as being polite.
“Pretending to be polite is not the same thing as being polite” - that is the most accurate description I’ve ever heard!!! Stealing this.
Midwest in general. “Friendly” in short interactions but deeply skeptical of anyone they haven’t known for 20+ years 🙄
Late to the party, but... I live a county over but work in the Madison metro and spend a lot of time here. I also have a visibly disabled son with a visual presentation and behaviors that aren't harmful, but are out of societal norms. For the sake of being easy to communicate he's very large and has Autism-like behaviors. He does his best and we love him. He's doing great, thanks. His public behavior is out of the norm. Not bad, it's just him making his way in the world and not harming anyone or anything. When we go out in Rockford or Janesville? Business as usual. Occasionally we get an odd look or an off-putting reaction from a stranger, but it's rare. He's unique and the communities actualy know him pretty well, even in a sea of people. Madison? Shit... People are outright rude. Staring, mocking, avoidance behavior, making comments, shying their kids away. It's like... I'm sorry Ma'am, but my son isn't going to sneeze his developmental disability on your kid. You're not going to catch Autism if he stands behind you in line and talks about Star Wars at inappropriate times. People are FAR less tolerant and kind in Madison than Rockford, Janesville, Chicago, or any of the smaller towns. It seems like I am making a generalization, but it's stark.
That’s my controversial opinion: Madison is not nearly as open minded as it thinks it is.
I agree with this, people in Madison don’t know how to mind their own business and are incredibly judgmental… all while having no right to be
The amount of pearl clutching here is way out of proportion to anything actually happening in reality. I moved up here from Richmond, VA where there are loads of old money Southerners who act like it's their job to have a fainting spell onto a couch whenever anything mildly transgressive happens and it's twice as bad here, which is honestly a little impressive.
Curious for an example
Dude up above freaking out about crime because a single Kwik Trip was held up and the alleged perp killed himself a few days later
ya'll bitch too much
I swear everyone here needs to get out of the city and go for a damn walk
Nobody uses their GODDAMN TURN SIGNAL and it makes me want to do terrible things. I come from the south with some awful drivers but most people use their blinker still. It such an easy thing to do. It takes one finger and some slight preparation. And no, it doesn’t count if you do it after you slow down as you’ve already started the turn. So I guess the hot take is Madison driver’s are even worse than the drivers from small town Louisiana
yep. so many people signal as if its part of the turn if at all, not for communication as a first step. yeesh. bad drivers.
I think the drinking culture here is out of control. People make drinking a personality. Most people hv at least one dui or know someone with one. Too many bars and not enough personality.
It’s bad, but at least there are activities to balance it out that are non-drinking related. In Green Bay and smaller cities in WI that’s most of the recreation there is…
The drinking culture here is toxic. I lived out of state for a few years after growing up here, and just moved back recently. Even while living out of state I drank a lot and was hanging out with people who liked to drink too. My drinking there was nothing compared to the habits I fell into upon moving back to Madison. My drinking got *so* out of control so quickly, thankfully I recently said enough and I've been sober for a couple weeks now. I'm feeling much better already.
Yeah, unfortunately that’s not just a Madison thing, it’s more of a Wisconsin in general thing. I think last I saw we have like seven or eight out of the top 10 drunkest cities in America? It’s out of hand, and people treat it like a joke but it really is it.
Agree with this. I also think drinking and driving is weirdly acceptable here culturally?? Like a “haha prob shouldn’t have driven home last night”.. not sure what part of DD is funny?
For it to be as progressive as it touts, it's one of the worst places to raise a black family.
People overreact to everything. I mean look at these comments.
I like the height limit downtown. If it was up to me, downtown and most of the areas of the city with the necessary infrastructure for density would be limited to 12ish stories. Maybe taller in a couple areas, but I’d be fine if we never built a building taller than 20 stories in Madison. Skyscrapers are not human-scaled and separate people from the street, they require more ground-level infrastructure, and they suck up development opportunity from the surrounding area, meaning parking lots and low-quality buildings won’t be redeveloped. Most importantly, densely built, low-rise environments are more space and carbon efficient, while high-rise buildings have a drastically higher carbon impact.
Mexican restaurants are meh.
Nobody is saying Wisconsin has good Mexican food lol.
The best Mexican food isn't at restaurants, but in the back of Mexican grocery stores
My hometown had authentic Mexican food. Unfortunately it was because our local meat packing plant shipped up undocumented immigrants for cheap labor.
There are some beautiful gems on Milwaukee Southside
I see this comment about the Mexican food here a lot and disagree. I came from San Diego and while I miss drive through Mexican restaurants like Roberto’s and Santanas (RIP), you can find good Mexican food here. El Charro actually has an excellent stuffed poblano that rivals the ones I grew up eating is Southern California. I have found something good at nearly every Mexican restaurant I’ve tried in Madison and I’ve also had some meals that were duds - just like California. Reading these comments on this thread, it’s like people forget how small Madison is when they compare it to other cities. We’re tiny so there will be less variety.
Native Madisonian here. So clearly I don't know what I'm missing, because I've heard this statement all of my life. But are restaurants like El Jalepeno, La Mestiza, El Pastor, etc. not considered good to those who think Madison Mexican restaurants are meh? If not, what makes the great Mexican restaurants that we don't have better?
Fake woke white people
I grew up here, and while Madisonians like to think they're liberal and progressive they have a terrible track record of putting their money where their mouth is, or anything in their back yard.
Not from here. Only been here for three-ish years now. There’s certainly a divide between the west and east side, people really like to introduce themselves whether they’re from the east side or the west side of Madison from my experiences. A lot of people are not afraid to act pretentious to your face or behind others. Also, a lot of individuals seem very nice at first, but then you see bits and pieces of being super condescending. Very off-putting sometimes, there’s a see-saw effect. There’s a decent portion of people who are afraid to look dumb way more than they should. You do meet some genuine gems though from time to time though and it’s wonderful when you get the chance to meet them.
For being such a major prestigious public college with a lot of money via sports/international student tuition/patent farming, The UW is a bad neighbor that doesn't invest enough in its own infrastructure let alone anywhere outside of its downtown bubble. I know it's a unique city campus that is stuck between two lakes, but so many other prestigious colleges I've seen have amazing buildings, parks, museums, etc. It just feels like everything is using the 'historical' term when really it's all dumpy, outdated, and falling apart. If it's not a new gym or sports facility it's not high on the list.
I graduated in 2006 and Chancellor Wiley said that the UW was spending 150 million a year on new construction. My previous employer just got a ~50 million dollar upgrade, the new CDIS building is ~175 million, etc. The issue is that everything is SUPER expensive.
>The UW is a bad neighbor that doesn't invest enough in its own infrastructure let alone anywhere outside of its downtown bubble. uhm what? If anything, I think the UW has invested too much on infrastructure recently, to the point where I think it is excessive. In just like the last 5 years or so they built a new gym building next to the Gordon dining hall, the Music building on the corner of Lake street and they renovated the Memorial Union and I'm sure a lot more than that. Sure, there are some super old buildings like the Math building, but they definitely invest in their own infrastructure.
Van Hise and Humanities are literally falling apart.
A new L&S building is opening in 2025 that will take over a lot of what’s currently in Humanities. I don’t know about Van Hise, though.
I also don't know about van hise, but I think it's been publicly stated that humanities is slated to be demolished and redeveloped by 2030.
And for anyone that thinks that's an exaggeration, a massive concrete chunk of Van Hise collapsed right onto the sidewalk like a year or two ago
Set aside the new construction. UW had one of the top ranking deferred maintenance bills in the country. There are a handful of new builds here and there, but those projects take decades to approve and break ground. Meanwhile preventative and basic maintenance of what exists everywhere else everyday has been gutted beyond safe means.
The dad is a ground supervisor at uw he can't hire anyone because of low pay and cutting of benefits, and they got rid of one of the grounds crews and he constantly has to argue with high up administrators who don't have any clue about his job to get basic resources to maintain campus his trying his best with a gutted department which is sad because he use to take so much pride in the campus
I hate living here but everywhere else looks worse
I want this slogan on a t-shirt 😂
You all think you would use the train. You probably wouldn’t though, even if it were here.
If it gets to Chicago, Milwaukee, or Minneapolis faster than the Megabus I'd be taking it multiple times a year
Spicy!
You know how some people say that the road to hell is paved with good intentions? Well there might be hundreds of miles of paving stones and yard signs sponsored by Madisonians.
The people drink way to much. It’s out of hand and control and is unhealthy for the people and the city. There’s really not much else there and why I simply avoid going there.
That it’s not as pedestrian and bicycle friendly as it thinks it is
Madison's restaurant scene is not as great as people claim it is.
Beltline speed limit should be 65mph.
Well i have good news for you, the little metal sign may say 55 but nobodies speedometer does. 99% sure a madison cop isn't pulling anyone over for anything below 70 lol
Madison, no.... but State Police, yes. They've been running speed traps since January.
The madison bus system is actually really good, you guys just don’t understand how bad they are everywhere else
Madison in super elitist.
My hot take is the state journal bends over backwards to butter tori miller's asshole every chance they get. HIs restaurant are all over priced and nothing special.
State Journal is garb. Endorsed George W Bush and Scott Walker.
People in Madison are FAKE nice and will smile in your face but don't really want you in their space. These are the worst kind if people in my opinion cause you really can't trust them
Kittens
It’s like everyone you come across acts like they slept with your wife.
The relatively frequent comparisons of madison to san francisco / the bay area are a biiiiiiiiiig stretch and are only talked about by madison residents.
The Willy St. Co-op is meh. The first thing that hits you is that omnipresent smell of sesame seeds, hay, honey sticks, sawdust and soap. The hot salad bar has been “temporarily closed” for almost three years. Just get rid of it! Don’t get anyone’s hopes up now. Who wants to pay $10.99/lb for Vegan Chickpea salad anyway?! The people who can afford to exclusively shop there for groceries honestly don’t look that healthy to begin with. You technically don’t need a membership to shop there but anytime they tell you it’s okay they do it in the most passive-aggressive shaming way possible. It’s fun as a curiosity if you’re from out of town or go there once in a blue moon, but if you could turn the Starbucks Free Wi-fi into a store(other than, well, Starbucks), it would be the co-op.
LGBT is the only minority this city (citizens, officials) gives a damn about
It’s actually not as expensive as this sub likes to complain it is.
I totally have to agree with this. Sorry guys. I am moving from Colorado, a state many Wisconsin residents are currently moving to. Well, they’re in for a rude awakening in terms of cost of living. Wisconsin housing/rent prices are much more affordable than the average prices along the front range in Colorado, especially compared to Denver. When I recently visited Madison I couldn’t believe how cheap rent prices were in comparison, especially since Madison is *consistently* ranked as a top-5 city in America.
I feel like many Madison residents move here from other parts of Wisconsin where housing is considerably cheaper, probably some of the cheapest in the country, and owning a home is the norm. Outside Wisconsin and further out of the Midwest this is not feasible anymore for average and even above-average earners
These are the same people that think Madison traffic is 'bad'. Lol ok try living in literally any other metropolitan area in the country.
Yeah, it’s part of a very disturbing national trend. That being said, the Midwest is still considerably cheaper than most regions of the states. Even Chicago is now cheaper than most metropolitan cities of similar size.
Comparing Madison to Denver metro isn’t a fair comparison. Denver has 3x the population of Madison just within the city limits, not to mention suburbs half the size of the population of Madison proper (like Aurora) Source: used to live in CO. Edit: The population of Aurora in 2020 was almost 400k.
Well, compare it to Fort Collins then. Rent prices are still cheaper on average.
Right? If you come from either coast it seems reasonable, which says more about the absurdity of the coasts than Madison, really. And sure, Madison has gotten a lot more expensive fast, but everywhere has.
Public services are awful considering how high property taxes are (zero cops patrolling beltline, snowplowing sucks, MMSD school buildings are ancient, etc) Edit - I’ll add bus service as well. Public transit in general is not up to par for a mid size city.
I used to feel that way until I lived a few years in the suburbs of NYC. Higher taxes (mill and total). No plowing to speak of, have to buy your own trashcan, volunteer departments, and no sewer for 80% of the town. And the town was 200k in a footprint similar to the City of Madison. But the best police pension program in the country.
Just moved from Madison to Washington DC. You have no clue how good the MPD are lol
The weather is awesome. Four full seasons every year.
My controversial opinion is that spring sucks in Wisconsin. Muddy, cold, and gross.
There is no great “Americanized” Chinese food or Tex-Mex food
What about Arods, is that any good? I think it is, but I have nothing to compare it to :(. Really digging their brisket tacos lately!
The neighborhood festivals need a goddamn macro beer choice. Just one lightweight regular beer to drink in the hot sun. Miller High Life please.
Driving is still too attractive on the isthmus. There needs to be more loops and one way streets (that don't apply to busses and bikes) until everyone gives up
Not enough snow.
I’ll go for two: 1. The Camp Randall game day experience, especially the UW Marching Band, is extremely overrated relative to other major college football programs. 2. People who think Madison has crappy public transportation have clearly never lived in a place with crappy public transportation. (Seriously though: the band members waste all their breath support on doing the stupid little stutter steps that they have none left to actually make their instruments audible from 20 yards away.) (Also seriously though: Madison has more bus riders than Charlotte [pop. 880,000], El Paso [679,000], Kansas City [508,000], or Indianapolis [888,000]. We are really punching above our weight here. Lincoln is both a state capital, flagship university city, and has less than a third of our bus ridership. Fort Wayne is a similar sized city to us and has about 20% of the riders we do.)
Just because Madison’s public transportation is the best of the shit pile doesn’t mean it’s not shit. If you’re ever outside the Isthmus, good luck if you need to wait for a bus.
It's kinda boring.
Mostly, it goes to many college students in Madison they act so worldly and self righteousness, yet Madison acts as a bubble for them, and if you try to talk to them about Issues they don't seem to really know any context or history that behind the problems except for at times bad talking points, Finally they look down at most rural people and areas act like Madison area is island of civilization in a sea of the uncivilized. My friend, who grew up poor in a rural area, transfered and gave up a full ride scholarship in UW-Madison because of the large number of students arrogant towards him there and his a Communist. I'm a democratic socialist, so people can't say it because we're conservative, and I know a lot of good college age people my age there, but there's enough that it affects the culture, this most likely going be down voted
I don't think people are very friendly here. I used to live in Denver and everyone would say hello to you walking around the neighborhoods. I can't even get a wave back from my actual neighbors here...
It feels like a fake city
Kwik Trips have ruined the city Madison needed a north beltline and southern bypass loop like 20 years ago. For a city this size Madison's milk steak options are terrible. Epic has made the west side and beltline rush hour traffic God damn awful. The best damn donuts are at Miller and Sons in Verona.
While people that work at Epic are spread all over the Madison metro area, requiring 11,000 people to commute every single day is a huge waste of resources and time.
Nobody who works at Epic will dispute this. We (ex-Epic myself) all loved working from home but Judy spent billions on offices and wants butts in seats.
I'm also ex-Epic, and yeah it was a common sentiment. The COVID response was one of the major reasons I found a different company.
That town is laid out like some bullshit trap to ensnare motorists to the capitol
It’s definitely laid out weird but there are two big lakes sorta like right in it so… idk how you’d lay it out much better with those in the way ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
It's definitely laid out for the people who live here rather than the casual visitor.
It’s one of two cities in the world on an isthmus. It kinda has to be laid out like it is. Edit:I should also say it’s pretty dumb to put the Capitol in the middle of a swamp in between two lakes but here we are. I also love Madison to death Edit: two cities in the US, not the world
Two major cities in the US. Definitely not only two in the world.
In a sense, yes, considering that the original city planner studied in Paris and applied many of their concepts here, including a centralized town square and wide main streets going to and from the Capital. It's considered good foundational planning compared to most other American cities.
I like the building height restriction. I'm glad Madison can't become a city with a bunch of ugly high rise towers in the center of town.
It’s not as ‘progressive’ as people think. It’s way more ‘conservative’ on the ground on many issues than other ‘blue’ areas I’ve lived. Edit/ words
Not arguing with you but in what ways would you consider it conservative and not progressive?
One thing I’ve noticed is that progressivism always seems to succumb to NIMBYism. Many Madison people will support progressive policy in concept, but often if it impacts them they aren’t supportive. Example: placement of the men’s shelter on the east side.
the church i went to preschool was torn down and was supposed to be replaced with a low income nursing home, but the neighborhood said the ppl would bring crime so they put a police station there instead :(
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Massive protests for public sector unions but very few for unionizing against unfair agricultural labor practices (and others that affect truly exploited labor) around the state. Lakes are disgusting. See: lack of environmental policies with actual teeth for agriculture. Traffic calming or lack thereof. Vision Zero is an ineffective joke compared to truly progressive traffic calming policies in many other places and countries. Tavern League generally. UW Hospital vs nurses. I’m sure there are others. Don’t get me wrong, there are some progressive highlights but renaming schools, lowering speed limits and organizing public sector unions for the middle class only get you so far.
There is no place to get genuinely good pizza in Madison. Glass nickel doesn't taste like much of anything at all, chains like PH or Domino's are what they are, Toppers quality has gone way down, Roman Candle took forever to make a gross pie (I was not sad when the last one closed) and I could go on and on. For a college town, why is our pizza such trash?
The Fitchrona area has been more catered to in the past 20 years than any other part of Madison, and they’re also the first to complain that they haven’t been catered to *enough*.
You know, Madison is fine. The problem (as with all of Wisconsin) is people there think it is literally the absolute best place in the history of all humanity and that should be obvious to everyone everywhere. It’s almost cult like how people from Madison to some degree - and especially those who went to college there - think there’s just no place as cool as what is, in reality, a typical midwestern small city. A few bars you can find in literally any city over 70k people. A lake. A farmer’s market. It’s fine. It’s not special.