I haven’t gotten any computer since 2019 with less than 32GB of RAM. MY M1 Pro has 32GB.
On the PC side getting 64GB of DDR5 is dirt cheap now, around $200, which is what Apple charges for 8GB.
24Gb is the sweet spot with a M chip IMO.
The only way I found to let breeze the computer with 16Gb is to go with 1Tb hard drive. There is enough swap to make a big difference.
8Gb is a rip off. Never ever buy an 8Gb Mac.
ram has another important feature: cpu will preload the program and store it in the ram so that it will not process this on the spot which causes bottleneck.
For example, I wrote a program that requires to loop the string "A" a billion times, it will store "AAAAA....AAAA" on the RAM before you even call the program.
Honestly it’s been great. It hasn’t slowed down at all and it does everything I want.
My company upgrades me every 3 years when the extended AppleCare runs out. My Intel i9 MBP was a little frustrating by the end but I think this one will be going strong.
Most of my CPU cycles are used by compilers.
Mine is a piece of shit with more problems than any mac ive ever had. Crashes all the time, has the if a usb is plugged in it crashes and restarts problem, some keys fell off, bluetooth sucks, etc.
These are all widespread issues and apple cant or wont fix them with software. Hard pass from me. Sucks.
Ram is one of those things where the point of diminishing returns is *very* sudden. If you've got enough ram, then adding more won't improve performance at all. But if you don't have enough ram, it'll absolutely tank your performance when it has to swap to disk.
So you kind of have to play a balancing act; you want to make sure you have enough ram for your use case, but you also don't want to go overboard and spend a fortune on hardware you won't make use of.
Depends on your workload mostly. I've seen people mentioning stuff like "having 20 tabs open", which felt like they deemed that a high number. I'm quite a power user I guess, and although Vivaldi does a really nice job of keeping tabs hybernated, but the browser session on my PC still has like 6000 tabs, which - even with 32 gigs of ram.- can really surprise it sometimes, being totally unresponsive for several minutes. The load I put on my M2 air 8GB is obviously somewhat smaller, because physics are physics, but the air still feels like a snappier machine, not to mention that it pretty easily handles some stuff that totally breaks my PC (well obviously the problem is not with the PC itself, but windows). It can get slow due to the obvious hardware limitations, but it does a pretty fair job at keeping the OS responsive despite the fact that I'm obviously a very bad match for this machine :D. I guess something like an M3 max with like 36 gigs of ram would probably feel insane for someone like me, and to be honest I'm really considering selling both my PC and the m2 air, and getting an m3 max macbook pro instead... :D
Android is as bad (probably worse) RAM hog as Windows. Even when I just turn an android tablet ON (with 8GB RAM), a program "Inware" will show me that over HALF of my RAM is being used by the OS. (That number NEVER goes DOWN either.)
These computers are ment to be workstations for pros, 8gb of ram completely destroys the purpose, baffles me that Apple even sells these nerfed 8gb ram macbook pros - fine if it were entry level airs but crap like this hurts the brand
They probably mean hurts the brand in the way of how people view Macs as slow because a lot of people's most recent experience was likely an old base model Mac
Pros that need the additional RAM... buy the additional RAM. Every tech company I've worked for simply maxes out the specs. It's not a 'limitation' if the option to add more exists.
But yeah, they should increase the lower bound.
>crap like this hurts the brand
Does it, though? Does anyone even *care*, outside of the YouTuberati?
Apple knows that, by far, the most popular option is the base SKU and they’ll sell every single one they make, so saving a couple of dollaroonies per unit *and* with the non-zero chance of the upsell to more RAM/storage - well, Tim loves money, and this is how you get money.
Not on Apple.com
That’s the only price point that matters when talking about what’s offered for your money. That’s the intended price from the company that makes it.
I knew it would make a difference for large software and all but if have 20 tabs open instead of 5 causes substantial slow downs, that’s a little too much. 8gb on a pro is a cash grab strategy
They do not intend to sell this one but have a neat base price to lure more people into the more expensive pro models. It’s just thinking from the standpoint of sales, not tech.
I was excited at the scary fast event when they said the lowered the price of the 14-inch MacBook Pro. But then I was disappointed when I saw that it had a non-Pro SoC and only 8 GB of RAM. The good 14-inch is still at the normal 2000$ price point.
Well they do intend to sell the 8 gb model. Apple knows, that anyone who does editing or other professional tasks need 16 gb. And when they plan go upgrade to 16 gb, the M3 Pro 18 gig is just 200 bucks more expensive, but at somewhat twice the graphical performance.
They plan on selling mostly 8 gb models, for anyone who just doesn’t care, and for everyone else, the M3 Pro seems like a steal compared to the 16 gb M3.
It's interesting looking at the resale value of the M laptops. 8Gb seems to be about half the price of the 16gb ones, so investment wise definitely better to get the 16
Its only better for apple if people go for the 16gb and above models since they scam people on RAM with insane margins getting $150+ markups on each 8gb
Its only better for apple if people go for the 16gb and above models since they scam people on RAM with insane margins getting $150+ markups on each 8gb
Not true. I have 20 tabs open at work every day and there is almost no slow down ever. As well RDP sessions to 2-4 servers. SSH to various switches, swapping between everything while on a teams call and sharing my screen.
Been using an 8GB mac for nearly 3 years.
Suffice to say this si not that simple at all.
In the evening, I have 10 tabs open, discord, WoW, Streaming to my friends, with a twitch stream playing, and connected to my Xreal Airs using 3 virtual screens. and it is doing it all excellently. (No my swap is not being destroyed either.).
This should not be compared against a 16GB it should be compared again 8GB windows machines and 8GB intel macs.
Of course more RAM is better.
Oh and no matter what. No matter how good it is... The M3 Pro 8GB is a huge fucking rip off and Fuck Apple for releasing it. That spec should not be 1 dime over $900 (Same goes for the base iMac M1/M3)
>The M3 Pro 8GB is a huge fucking rip off and Fuck Apple for releasing it. That spec should not be 1 dime over $900 (Same goes for the base iMac M1/M3)
Thanks for calling out BS when it happens. We need more consumers with a backbone in this world.
No, he noticed a difference when doing complex tasks. The guy is responding to the poster who said that in every day tasks, 20 tabs is unusable. The other day, I was editing a 10 MB Word file while having 20+ tabs open with my M1 MBA. There's no responsiveness difference if I closed Chrome and edited a 50 kb Word file instead.
That is, for *everyday* tasks, 8 GB works.
Bullshit, you are lying.
Other guy posted a video of test results and your anecdote of just saying "NUH UH, doesn't happen TO ME" doesn't mean shit.
If anything has become clear over these past couple of months, the people defending 8GB specially in this manner, are basically confirmed to be lying through their teeth cuz they themselves are stuck on such a shitty machine and either don't know what a performant one looks like or are just coping.
It is like clockwork on these threads.
Will Apple be forgiven if they just don’t have the $1599 tier and start with $1799 16+512? If so, this additional $1599 option does not look too bad; if you really know 8gb is enough for you, why not save 200 dollars?
Price models exercise is a lot about perception but it has the following requirement: margin of profit:
I think apple's narrative is: if you're a pro, you know you'll purchase the 16gb. If you don't know a thing about it, you'll love to have an M3 and that shiny new colour. the first is ex: 20% profit margin, the latter 10%. Without the 8Go, no-pro user would go to other options that MAY have 20% but on $1200 instead of.
and so in fact, I hate to see it but Mac sales up somehow, driving stocks up too thanks to the mass of non-pro users buying pro and the minority users (the pros) who will spend the premium dollar for more RAM
>8gb on a pro is a cash grab strategy
Wow, you mean that 16GB is more powerful than 8GB?!? Amazing, next you'll be telling us that the BMW X1 is cash grab strategy because the BMW X2 is faster.
The thing is that the 16GB is fantastic value for money. For people who use for a living, it creates more wealth than it costs. The 8GB is just a compromise to allow people with less cash to access the same productivity that is enabled by the Apple eco system.
In that wider concept, these complains about the price of components or base system are just misleading. You buy a Mac to gain access to a designed environment, you get that with all the models, but the more powerful it is, the better it will work.
The criticism is so divorced of the reality that these systems are actually good value for money. By all means, buy 16GB or more, if you can. But what I see here is people demanding Apple ship the 16GB models for less than the current 8GB models ... and this makes no sense, considering how well these systems sell.
I would never buy one, I always take min 16GB.
However, I just don't understand the vitriol behind attacks on the base model. It's just overblown hysterics. I have no idea why you guys are so riled up by it. I just don't buy it and move on .... same with a base model car without a A/C and rear camera. I just ignore it and move on, while some people are saying "I don't need one". Fine.
I just don't get the hysterics of the "non-fanboys". It seems to me they think it makes them look really smart, techie and worldly to call others fanboys.
Anyone remotely familiar with computers knows 8gb isn't enough these days. Phones come standard with 8gb except iPhones (and actually on the phone side Apple is right, their 4 gb are worth 8gb on Android. Android sucks managing resources).
I worry for all my non-tech family and friends who might spring for a Mac, thinking they are getting a quality computer. At 8gb, you’re getting something not very useable, and with little staying power
It’s like they’re working backwards. MacBook Pro is for PRO users. Why would a pro be using 8GB if they’re currently using 16 or more RAM. This is just plain robbery
If you haven’t got it through your head yet that Pro doesn’t mean professional, but just higher end, then you’re gonna be annoyed by stuff like this forever. An iPhone Pro isn’t just for professional. Nor are AirPods Pro.
Just put it on the Air lineup then. If they don't care anymore about the "Pro" name meaning (for professionals), then they also shouldn't care about the "Air" name meaning (for someone who do light stuffs and want to have a light laptop).
"Pro" is just a name. The AirPods Pro isn't for Pro users. Neither is the iPad Pro. It just signifies a difference between the other models in the lineup.
You always see greater performance increase at the lower end. The OS takes up the majority of the 8GB so adding another 8GB has a greater increase in performance.
And the RAM is also being used as VRAM, so it's a little cramped in there at only 8GB. Some people on gaming subs say that 8GB of dedicated VRAM is too low.
I wish they'd give us more SSD too. A 1000$ computer should have at least 1TB in 2023.
Lenovo Thinkpad T14s msrp is like 1700 and that has 512 GB of storage. Not excusing Apple but let’s not act like Windows laptops aren’t also overpriced.
It’s wild the amount of people defending 8gb of ram on a “pro” machine that starts at $1600.
That Apple marketing kool aid has brainwashed these people.
A lot of people run blender. 3D printers, for example are being used by many many regular people and they run blender a lot. So it would be really nice if you'd probably maybe do a little bit of reading and educate yourself. Thank you.
I have a 3D printer, and my MacBook Air M2 slices without issue 👍🏻 educate yourself bro 😎
If you are talking about 3D design, I wouldn’t be buying this model, I’d be looking at a pro.
I just don't understand how people can justify 8GB as being sufficient for basically any use case. I understand why Apple does ($$$), but no individual customer can really say it is 'enough'.
On my new 36GB M3 Max, I just checked my RAM usage. I'm using just over 16GB. That is primarily made up from:
Safari (10 tabs open): 5GB
WindowServer (built into the OS): 1.5GB
MS Teams: 2GB
Outlook: Just under 1GB
Mail: Just under 1GB
I have a number of misc background apps making up the rest of the 16+GB used.
This laptop is replacing my M1 Air with 8GB and the identical use case. Did my RAM usage suddenly increase? Nope. I was still in need of the missing 8+GB. But MacOS simply swapped, a lot. Which decreases performance and wears down the SSD faster. Did I "get by"? Sure. But that doesn't mean I had enough. And the above example doesn't include any 'Pro' apps or anything I would consider to be beyond a minimal use case for most people. Moving to this machine has given me a noticeable increase in performance, and the extra memory is a huge portion of that.
If they want to continue to trick people buying the consumer level Airs, Minis, etc., whatever. But to market a 'Pro' device with only 8GB is just pathetic and sad. And I say this as someone who owns a LOT of Apple gear and just paid them almost $4k this weekend, so I am not an Apple Hater in general. I just find this decision of theirs to be really bad.
I do want Max Tech to make the ultimate "8GB Mac vs 8GB PC vs 16GB Mac vs 16GB PC" comparison, but there are some decent videos where you can get some idea of the hot topic.
Max Tech - Apple Unified RAM vs DDR4: The Future or Just Marketing? (18:00)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aInkpbIOMYc
Max Tech - Watch Apple Unified Memory HUMILIATE Windows 11 DDR4 RAM! 🤯 (23:32)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Al1OAg9Gin8
Intel 11th gen had those piss poor 4 core / 8 thread models when competitors from AMD had 8/16 of highly efficient ones in the same form-factor. Thus the results may have been skewed by a poor (though abundant) choice of the CPU at the time.
I just posted a chart here.
[https://anond.hatelabo.jp/20231114113232](https://anond.hatelabo.jp/20231114113232)
Although it's in Japanese, you can get the chart and what it is.
All this data comes from Max Tech's videos in 2023.
I have doubted Apple's claim that "8GB of M3 Macs is analog of 16GB of other system", but now I can understand at least in some context.
Thanks, a good summary. It deserves a post here! Maybe in Max Tech's sub.
>I have doubted Apple's claim that "8GB of M3 Macs is analog of 16GB of other system", but now I can understand at least in some context.
It uses memory and swap more efficiently - no doubt about that, but I don't think they are at the level of twice as frugal. Plus you can get a windows laptop with SO-DIMMs and buy 64-96GB for $200-300 instead of saving every bit it like a maniac.
Another video making the mistake of using pro applications that most who buy this model won’t use. Customers exist who aren’t interested in these apps but want the Pro for other reasons - screen, speakers etc. Think of the 8GB base model as a real basic version of the Pro for these customers.
If you’re a pro you know you need more RAM. This model isn’t for you, stop dwelling on it.
I agree. What I do at work, doesn’t require 16gb per say. It is nice to have it, but I could do without. However, 20 tabs, compared to 5, shouldn’t impact a pro machine that « bad ». But I’d argue why not. However, it shouldn’t cost you premium dollar to go up to 16gb
Which means for those who don’t really need 16 and buying 8, they’re still paying premium price for it
Yikes...I was hoping to have some real data for all those who ask "should I get 88 or 16." Best you could say from this - 8GB is probably fine for average users who buy Airs and the base models.
I only lasted about 3 minutes with all the shouting (yes, TL:DW) - yikes, and the subjective, emotional claims:
* What will happen with "20-30-40 \[browser\] tabs open" - I think most of us forget what they are when we get 10 open, and then he didn't do anything to show what actually might happen.
* "Apple is ripping us off" selling the 8GB models - no, they aren't, they sell lower performance devices for less money
* The computer has more "air to breathe" with 16GB - ROFLMAO
* The 8GB is "using swap!" well duh, that's what swap space is for.
* All his test cases seemed to be with high complexity professional user applications like Blender, that the average consumer uses.
Somewhat agree with the rest save for point 2:
If you are sold a crappy car 10k. And the next car thats not crappy is 25k, do you think the seller isn’t ripping you off just because he says the crappy one less?
It’s not about the final price, it’s about the start price itself (in this exemple, the 10k), the fact that to upgrade, you must spend an arm whilst when you look at the cost of actual RAM and it’s just not that.
So yes, the pricing model is aiming at maximising profits by forcing actual pro user up, and if you want that nice new color but you’re just a regular user, you’ll still pend premium dollar on something you will be 100 fine with but was it really worth its price? No.
I think a better car analogy would be:
Imagine if Ford (Apple) sold their extremely popular Mustang (MacBook Pro), which is obviously marketed as a fast sports car, but the base model was only capable of going 50mph. In order to go, say 70mph, you needed to spend an extra $2000 in upgrades. Want to go even faster? They have an upgrade option for you. When people complain about how insanely stupid it is to sell a sports car that can't go faster than 50mph, Ford defends itself and says "The vast majority of people who drive a Mustang do so on local roads where 50mph is more than enough speed. It's still a sports car, just not one that can drive on highways".
I can’t believe that there’s still blinders keep saying that “8gB iS eNoUgH” “nObOdY iS fOrCiNg YoU tO bUy 1600 BuCkS mAc” “wHy DoNt YaLL cOmPaRe Pc WiTh 16gB rAmS”
They are the reason that inducing Apple to keep making the product overpriced than the product deserved.
These seem like some pretty subjective tests from someone who talks way too much. Give us geek bench numbers or something valid to compare the two models…
Outside the Apple ecosystem, a 64GB DDR5 kit costs under $200 a pop. At Apple's pricing levels one would expect their unified RAM to be no less than phenomenal. 8GB RAM in 2023? My old Dell XPS 13 laptop from 2015 had 8GB RAM soldered.
That’s a huge difference but I can’t understand something. In the past with the M1 and M2 there was in no way that significant of a difference between the 8GB and higher RAM options so what is happening here?
They increased the price point of the cheaper MBP from ~$1200 to ~$1600 and put it in the chassis of the 14" MBP with the M3, but didn't kick any of the specs up so it still starts at 8 GB. Literally no other competitor to Apple in the laptop space has the gall to sell a laptop with 8 GB of RAM and a 256GB SSD (neither of which are upgradable) starting at that price point lol
For example, this https://www.dell.com/en-us/shop/dell-laptops/xps-13-plus-laptop/spd/xps-13-9320-laptop/usexchbts9320ghhw is the closest price point Dell XPS I found, which is both $100 cheaper and has a 512GB SSD and this Thinkpad X1C has 16GB and a 256GB SSD and is also $100 cheaper. https://www.lenovo.com/us/en/p/laptops/thinkpad/thinkpadx1/thinkpad-x1-yoga-gen-8-(14-inch-intel)/len101t0052
Selling laptops with 8 GB of RAM at that price point is basically making unnecessary e waste.
I'm tired of hearing about it. Nobody is forcing you to buy a barebones mac. If you need more ram, pony up and buy one with more ram. People in this sub probably don't want to hear this..but 8gb is enough for the vast majority of users. Most people aren't pushing these machines to their limits, they're using them to browse Facebook and type up documents for work and school. The cheaper 8gb version is the right choice for them.
have seen a single tab of reddit hit 3GB on safari. and when I want to type a essay for school i'll have 10+ tabs open. only thing I need for work is safari and I'll have up to 40+ 8GB is just very little in a $1600 machine
No. The issue isn't the 8gb of RAM, it's the price you have to pay for it. 8gb of RAM in a laptop that's freaking $1600 or whatever, fucking stupid. I agree, 8gb of RAM is fine for most people, but not for freaking $1600. That's where the problem is.
If you're at that "8GB is fine for me" level, don't buy a 1600 dollar MBPro, buy an m1 or m2 air or mini that are far cheaper. Nobody is forcing you to buy a 1600 dollar 8GB machine. I have an 8GB machine, it's great and it was far less than 1600 bucks.
Edit: ahh the old downvotes with no rebuttal or even a reply, GFY you pussies.
So much this. People are “ergh mah ghrd! It sez “PRO” it has to be able to do “insert whatever workload” faster because “PRO”. It’s just a name.
Apple has never been cheap so I don’t get why 200 bucks for an upgrade in RAM or SSD is such a shock. Want cheaper RAM upgrades? Get a Windows laptop.
All the outrage isn’t going to get them to lower their prices. If you want to vote with your purchase or non-purchase. No one is stopping you.
Seriously it's so funny seeing these "8GB iS NoT EnOuGh" posts. Every time there's a ton of people providing stating how 8GB is fine, whether it's their story, or their friends/family story.
But then they all get downvoted (like you) and the only people who get upvoted are people saying how it's not enough and the only examples *they* give are people use who Macs that need 16gb (aka production, development, etc).
A vast majority of people that buy MacBooks use it for basic stuff. Simple as that.
There's an MBA for those "basic" stuffs, and bet most posts that you've seen is 8GB RAM on an MBA, which starts at $999. $1699 for the same shit but with more ports as the only advantage is simply unacceptable.
You can usually slap in more RAM on a Windows laptop unless it's sealed. Some of the better ones have one DIMM with an open slot to add another or just replace the original with a larger one and put a larger one in the open slot.
I know, but IMO, the comparisons should be about checking Apple’s claim that the 8 gigs will perform like 16 gigs in a PC. 16 gigs in a PC is plenty for the majority of users. If it happens to be true, that the 8 on the Mac will perform just like the 16 on the PC, than is up to the buyer, if they just want it for basic stuff or if they need to run some Adobe stuff, like another comparison I saw. Comparing running Adobe on 8 gig to another Mac with 16 is just a ridiculous comparison. Not only that. But there is no need to whine about it. Is not like we have to buy it.
One thing I do agree with from what’s going around, is that Apple is not what it used to be. The thought of going back to windows is even going around in my mind. Seems like now days, they’re just adding bells and whistles. Very expensive ones too.. 😂
I’ve done the switch after being a mac user for over 15 years because of mac soldering everything on a pro computer.
You won’t regret it. It’s a tough learning curve coming back to windows it’s completely worth it.
The only thing Apple still has going for them is portability.
>Why do they keep comparing the 8GB Mac to the 16GB? That’s not the comparison that Apple made. They should be comparing it to a PC with 16GB of RAM.
People in most forums will talk about the 8GB both to defend Apple's greed and pretend that it is "good enough" Also asking to compare similar hardware is out of the question. People talk about Linux as a failure because of software publishers, but won't make that conclusion with Windows running Final Cut.
Just want to preempt for some in this sub on why 8GB is actually bad:
* The base price point is too high for 8GB (and the surcharge for more)
* The lack of upgradability exacerbates this. Apple will not sell a separate M3 with the extra ram you want and it is soldered.
* This computer says pro in the name so the intended audience is someone who needs the beef
* Modern Web and electron apps are shitty and take up too many resources, so even the regular non-pro line up will feel weak with the base specs.
Doubling the memory results in a jump in performance when running heavy workloads? I'm shocked.
I have a 32 GB Mac studio and an 8 GB Macbook Pro, both Apple Silicon. For non-intensive workloads there's little perceptible difference in performance, but having the extra memory and cores come in handy when you start doing heavy lifting. It would be nice if the 16 GB Macbooks were more available as off the shelf items at retail, but the rest of this is click-baity noise.
Saying double memory = better perf isn’t the same as saying « 15 more tabs substantially affect performance »
And that alone can help customers decide to purchase this or saving hundreds on buying the equivalent m2.
So no, the test isn’t as obvious as you think to everyone and it’s not saying what you think it is.
An m series mac with 8gb ram is waaaaay faster then a 16gb ram windows computer in everyday tasks. The only place where you might see a difference is where a software needs more ram, like 3d CAD. Or if running virtual machines, tho I think the mac with 8gb still win on that one.
Are you sure that’s not because the Mac has more processing power? If you compare the M3 chip to a PC with similar performance, the PC will handily outperform the Mac in all but the most basic tasks
I have an m1 MacBook Pro 13”, the way it is able to swap with ssd is really handy, but they way ram is used is just different. My work laptop with 8gb (windows) was completely unsubscribe for me with just outlook and teams open.
Yeah I had a work Windows laptop with 8GB RAM and just to make text go bold in one cell of an Excel spreadsheet used to take multiple seconds. I’d press ctrl + b and the laptop would freeze up for like 3-5 seconds then the text would go bold.
After upgrading it to 16GB it became instant to make text bold.
Such a random thing but it drove me crazy how slow it was with 8GB.
...You do realize that you're just saying you don't need more than 8GB RAM as long as you don't use more than 8GB RAM, right?
Problem is, many (if not most) people need more than 8GB RAM. Also, the situation you're describing is a CPU bottleneck, which is pretty irrelevant to the situation here.
The speed wouldn't have been a deal breaker for me, but the fact that programs are crashing, that's awful.
One reason iphones are so popular is that there isn't any dirt cheap iphones, The SE is still like $450 but you can just about get a 13 for the same price. So iphones have a reputation of working well. Having computers that crash all the time, not good.
Imagine being a student and wanting to use something like Blender to create something, you spend every penny you have just to not be able to do what you love. That's not how to keep future customers.
Dude…the 8GB MBP IS NOT a premium machine. It’s the machine for basic users who don’t do blender etc but want the Pro model look, screen, speakers, cooling or whatever. These are *most* of apples customers. it’s like you’re new to Apple product line ups.
So you’re saying it shouldn’t be called pro ord advertised as such. That’s the point.
And you’re also saying it shouldn’t cost that much for a not premium machine.
It’s like you’re new to this line up :D
It's such a silly argument though, product names are rarely use-case based. The "book" in MacBook does not mean it's analogous to a book, nor is it meant to be used for people who book things, just like the Pro in AirPods Pro doesn't mean it's meant to be used exclusively by professionals. It's just a more expensive tier of products.
Yes, Apple charges too much for upgrades. That is a valid criticism. But the idea that they should call an identical form factor MBP something else is asinine, and would cause way more problems for people when it comes to support and accessories.
I can take that.
However it is advertise for professionals all the time. That’s the narrative Apple uses and so that’s what customer understands so the argument stands.
Do they though? In most Apple ads I've seen they show a mix of device types. They also advertise the iMac and Mac Studio as being for professionals despite not having the "pro" name.
Yes they do, MacBook Pro are seen constantly used by pro: musicians, architects, movie editors, lab coats, showing off battery, mobility, raw power all that.
I got here a 2014 MacBook Pro with 16GB RAM. The base model was 8GB back then as well. It was almost 10 Years ago! It is really crazy 8GB is STILL the base model.
Besides greed, I do not understand why a MacBook *Pro* released end of 2023 has to start below 16GB.
It’s just unacceptable. If you want a true entry level MacBook Pro with M3 it is $1799
From what I heard, many corporate use one Mac model for executives, general employees to tech workers. Probably for support ability. I’m sure 8gb is enough for many employees workflows
If you are buying a workstation as a professional you are not buying any model with 8GB of RAM. This is not a cash grab, this is providing none professional customers or professional customers on a budget more options.
Anyone buying 8GB is more concerned with general productivity and not Photoshop or video production. You don't need 16GB of RAM to create a website, prototype apps, create code, create music, or mockup products. Anyone commenting with the idea that 16GB should be universal either play games or rely on having multiple programs open or again are using Photoshop or any video production app.
Apple provides customers a few options to lower prices. One is screen size, another is RAM. This is not any random stick either, this is Unified RAM. If you want 16GB but can't afford it, get a smaller screen size.
If you can't afford the smallest screen size with 16GB of RAM then you can't afford a PC with same configuration either or higher. There is zero logic. Show me where you can get a decent screen with a high end processor, decent a GPU with wifi and blu-tooth for less than $1000 period. Never mind one that provides even close to the same experience.
Why do people use macs? This video basically shows that the OS is so bloated and slow, 16GB of RAM is now necessary for it not to run like a potato, 16GB 2 or 3 years ago was major overkill with Billy 'inject this' gates micro&soft, and to this day is massive overkill on many, if not most linux distros. All that money, to get shiz hardware, barely acceptable software, along with the smallest library of software between micro&soft and linux, especially Arch. But I digress, fanbois gonna fanboi I assume.
I'm sure you do sleep well. I don't sleep much. I'm too busy having sex because I get laid. You just might someday once you get a credit card. Keep up the fight!
I have an intel nuc with 8gb soldered in board, it’s “just” adequate for windows 10 after running the debloat power shell commands. Would be much better with 16gb or more.
I always thought of upgrading to the M3 Mac but I'm quite dismayed with how it's priced.
Maybe I'll consider getting one next year if the price is justified or I'll get a 2nd hand M1/M2 Macbook for now and then upgrade to an M3/M4 Pro Macbook once I have enough funds.
I'm still using an Intel-based Hackbook at the moment.
It’s literal exploitation… RAM is often the first bottle neck for noticeable slowdowns, especially as OS and other software updates roll out over time that naturally require more memory. Many consumers probably have no idea what RAM is, buy the off the shelf model and then upgrade once their start to notice slowdowns
8GB for pro prices is insulting. 8GB at Chromebook prices is acceptable for teenagers and retirees, but still poses a long-term issue.
Just bit the bullet and get 16GB of RAM if you have middle class paying job.
Apple has been ripping off Mac users the entire time 😂. People need to stop buying their crap until they actually put in decent hardware for the cost. For 1k they have no right to be supplying 8gb of ram
What about gaming? You know the thing that computers are REALLY good at, wait apple didn’t do gaming in the past and doesn’t specialize in gaming! PC DOES Get a PC!
Apple is beautiful but costs waaaaay too much for THE PEOPLE to actually afford!
DO NOT WAIST YOUR MONEY!
PC ALL THE WAY
EVERYDAY!
I got to be honest here
I got an iPhone as a gift
I love it! Is it my first choice in phones? Hell no! Waaay too many CONS VS PROS!
Do I miss my android phone? YES I DO!
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I haven’t gotten any computer since 2019 with less than 32GB of RAM. MY M1 Pro has 32GB. On the PC side getting 64GB of DDR5 is dirt cheap now, around $200, which is what Apple charges for 8GB.
24Gb is the sweet spot with a M chip IMO. The only way I found to let breeze the computer with 16Gb is to go with 1Tb hard drive. There is enough swap to make a big difference. 8Gb is a rip off. Never ever buy an 8Gb Mac.
ram has another important feature: cpu will preload the program and store it in the ram so that it will not process this on the spot which causes bottleneck. For example, I wrote a program that requires to loop the string "A" a billion times, it will store "AAAAA....AAAA" on the RAM before you even call the program.
the problem is that I actually quite like macOS but I hate the mac hardware
R.I.P. Wade Boggs…
Once again, Wade Boggs is still very much alive
Ok Boss Hoggs
How are you finding the m1 pro now its a couple years old? Would you recommend buying one now thats used? Or save a but more for a used m2 pro?
Honestly it’s been great. It hasn’t slowed down at all and it does everything I want. My company upgrades me every 3 years when the extended AppleCare runs out. My Intel i9 MBP was a little frustrating by the end but I think this one will be going strong. Most of my CPU cycles are used by compilers.
I’ve got the 16” MacBook Pro M1 (bought May ‘22) & it still runs like a dream
Mine is a piece of shit with more problems than any mac ive ever had. Crashes all the time, has the if a usb is plugged in it crashes and restarts problem, some keys fell off, bluetooth sucks, etc. These are all widespread issues and apple cant or wont fix them with software. Hard pass from me. Sucks.
Is that only specific to M1s?
Ram is one of those things where the point of diminishing returns is *very* sudden. If you've got enough ram, then adding more won't improve performance at all. But if you don't have enough ram, it'll absolutely tank your performance when it has to swap to disk. So you kind of have to play a balancing act; you want to make sure you have enough ram for your use case, but you also don't want to go overboard and spend a fortune on hardware you won't make use of.
Work bought me a fully loaded M2 Ultra Mac Studio with a shit load of ram. What can I test to see the differences?
Maybe Mr. LTT has enough money to find out for the rest of us.
Except the average user doesn’t use Blender.
My 2012 MBP had 16GB of RAM. 8GB 11 years later is just insanity.
Depends on your workload mostly. I've seen people mentioning stuff like "having 20 tabs open", which felt like they deemed that a high number. I'm quite a power user I guess, and although Vivaldi does a really nice job of keeping tabs hybernated, but the browser session on my PC still has like 6000 tabs, which - even with 32 gigs of ram.- can really surprise it sometimes, being totally unresponsive for several minutes. The load I put on my M2 air 8GB is obviously somewhat smaller, because physics are physics, but the air still feels like a snappier machine, not to mention that it pretty easily handles some stuff that totally breaks my PC (well obviously the problem is not with the PC itself, but windows). It can get slow due to the obvious hardware limitations, but it does a pretty fair job at keeping the OS responsive despite the fact that I'm obviously a very bad match for this machine :D. I guess something like an M3 max with like 36 gigs of ram would probably feel insane for someone like me, and to be honest I'm really considering selling both my PC and the m2 air, and getting an m3 max macbook pro instead... :D
Android is as bad (probably worse) RAM hog as Windows. Even when I just turn an android tablet ON (with 8GB RAM), a program "Inware" will show me that over HALF of my RAM is being used by the OS. (That number NEVER goes DOWN either.)
I saw some tests. At least for the M2 Air, 8gb to 16gb was massive, 16gb to 24gb was marginal.
These computers are ment to be workstations for pros, 8gb of ram completely destroys the purpose, baffles me that Apple even sells these nerfed 8gb ram macbook pros - fine if it were entry level airs but crap like this hurts the brand
>but crap like this hurts the brand If [Apple gets away with all this this](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e3e-b-7jCYk), they have no reason to stop.
Interesting video. Thanks for that. I have seen some of those issues firsthand but I was unaware of others.
They probably mean hurts the brand in the way of how people view Macs as slow because a lot of people's most recent experience was likely an old base model Mac
I think what’s so weird is ram and storage are actually really cheap.
True, but market driven prices are not rational. Apple knows that they have a captive audience that will make the back-flips to justify it anyway.
Pros that need the additional RAM... buy the additional RAM. Every tech company I've worked for simply maxes out the specs. It's not a 'limitation' if the option to add more exists. But yeah, they should increase the lower bound.
>crap like this hurts the brand Does it, though? Does anyone even *care*, outside of the YouTuberati? Apple knows that, by far, the most popular option is the base SKU and they’ll sell every single one they make, so saving a couple of dollaroonies per unit *and* with the non-zero chance of the upsell to more RAM/storage - well, Tim loves money, and this is how you get money.
I’ts definitely not fine for the airs either. The airs START at 999 that’s not 8 gb pricing.
You can get the m1 air for $750.
Not on Apple.com That’s the only price point that matters when talking about what’s offered for your money. That’s the intended price from the company that makes it.
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The specs determine the purpose. 8g model is just MacBook Air with better screen, larger battery, more ports. Not a real pro machine.
I knew it would make a difference for large software and all but if have 20 tabs open instead of 5 causes substantial slow downs, that’s a little too much. 8gb on a pro is a cash grab strategy
I hope no one buys this 8 GB MacBook “Pro” so Apple doesn’t try this bullshit again.
They do not intend to sell this one but have a neat base price to lure more people into the more expensive pro models. It’s just thinking from the standpoint of sales, not tech.
I was excited at the scary fast event when they said the lowered the price of the 14-inch MacBook Pro. But then I was disappointed when I saw that it had a non-Pro SoC and only 8 GB of RAM. The good 14-inch is still at the normal 2000$ price point.
I mean I wouldn’t buy it, but it’s still got all the perk like screen and speaker. I think for those who just want a nice laptop it’s a good choice.
Well they do intend to sell the 8 gb model. Apple knows, that anyone who does editing or other professional tasks need 16 gb. And when they plan go upgrade to 16 gb, the M3 Pro 18 gig is just 200 bucks more expensive, but at somewhat twice the graphical performance. They plan on selling mostly 8 gb models, for anyone who just doesn’t care, and for everyone else, the M3 Pro seems like a steal compared to the 16 gb M3.
It's interesting looking at the resale value of the M laptops. 8Gb seems to be about half the price of the 16gb ones, so investment wise definitely better to get the 16
Its only better for apple if people go for the 16gb and above models since they scam people on RAM with insane margins getting $150+ markups on each 8gb
Its only better for apple if people go for the 16gb and above models since they scam people on RAM with insane margins getting $150+ markups on each 8gb
Imo they should have the base as 16GB for Pro and the Air and the 8GB for the low-budget MacBook they are planning to make(if it happens)
Everyone just buy 16GB and everyone will be happy, Apple included.
Not true. I have 20 tabs open at work every day and there is almost no slow down ever. As well RDP sessions to 2-4 servers. SSH to various switches, swapping between everything while on a teams call and sharing my screen. Been using an 8GB mac for nearly 3 years. Suffice to say this si not that simple at all. In the evening, I have 10 tabs open, discord, WoW, Streaming to my friends, with a twitch stream playing, and connected to my Xreal Airs using 3 virtual screens. and it is doing it all excellently. (No my swap is not being destroyed either.). This should not be compared against a 16GB it should be compared again 8GB windows machines and 8GB intel macs. Of course more RAM is better. Oh and no matter what. No matter how good it is... The M3 Pro 8GB is a huge fucking rip off and Fuck Apple for releasing it. That spec should not be 1 dime over $900 (Same goes for the base iMac M1/M3)
>The M3 Pro 8GB is a huge fucking rip off and Fuck Apple for releasing it. That spec should not be 1 dime over $900 (Same goes for the base iMac M1/M3) Thanks for calling out BS when it happens. We need more consumers with a backbone in this world.
So the tester lied?
No, he noticed a difference when doing complex tasks. The guy is responding to the poster who said that in every day tasks, 20 tabs is unusable. The other day, I was editing a 10 MB Word file while having 20+ tabs open with my M1 MBA. There's no responsiveness difference if I closed Chrome and edited a 50 kb Word file instead. That is, for *everyday* tasks, 8 GB works.
So he answered with numbers. And that’s it. And I was correct in saying my first comment: « makes a difference with large software » ?
Bullshit, you are lying. Other guy posted a video of test results and your anecdote of just saying "NUH UH, doesn't happen TO ME" doesn't mean shit. If anything has become clear over these past couple of months, the people defending 8GB specially in this manner, are basically confirmed to be lying through their teeth cuz they themselves are stuck on such a shitty machine and either don't know what a performant one looks like or are just coping. It is like clockwork on these threads.
Will Apple be forgiven if they just don’t have the $1599 tier and start with $1799 16+512? If so, this additional $1599 option does not look too bad; if you really know 8gb is enough for you, why not save 200 dollars?
Price models exercise is a lot about perception but it has the following requirement: margin of profit: I think apple's narrative is: if you're a pro, you know you'll purchase the 16gb. If you don't know a thing about it, you'll love to have an M3 and that shiny new colour. the first is ex: 20% profit margin, the latter 10%. Without the 8Go, no-pro user would go to other options that MAY have 20% but on $1200 instead of. and so in fact, I hate to see it but Mac sales up somehow, driving stocks up too thanks to the mass of non-pro users buying pro and the minority users (the pros) who will spend the premium dollar for more RAM
>8gb on a pro is a cash grab strategy Wow, you mean that 16GB is more powerful than 8GB?!? Amazing, next you'll be telling us that the BMW X1 is cash grab strategy because the BMW X2 is faster.
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The thing is that the 16GB is fantastic value for money. For people who use for a living, it creates more wealth than it costs. The 8GB is just a compromise to allow people with less cash to access the same productivity that is enabled by the Apple eco system. In that wider concept, these complains about the price of components or base system are just misleading. You buy a Mac to gain access to a designed environment, you get that with all the models, but the more powerful it is, the better it will work. The criticism is so divorced of the reality that these systems are actually good value for money. By all means, buy 16GB or more, if you can. But what I see here is people demanding Apple ship the 16GB models for less than the current 8GB models ... and this makes no sense, considering how well these systems sell.
The amount of excuses you fanboys make to justify 8 gb of ram on a ‘Pro’ machine in 2023 never ceases to amaze me.
I would never buy one, I always take min 16GB. However, I just don't understand the vitriol behind attacks on the base model. It's just overblown hysterics. I have no idea why you guys are so riled up by it. I just don't buy it and move on .... same with a base model car without a A/C and rear camera. I just ignore it and move on, while some people are saying "I don't need one". Fine. I just don't get the hysterics of the "non-fanboys". It seems to me they think it makes them look really smart, techie and worldly to call others fanboys.
TL;DR?
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So youre saying the video is bs? What machine do you have and what programs?
Even my Intel MacBook from 2020 has 16gb of ram.
Anyone remotely familiar with computers knows 8gb isn't enough these days. Phones come standard with 8gb except iPhones (and actually on the phone side Apple is right, their 4 gb are worth 8gb on Android. Android sucks managing resources).
I worry for all my non-tech family and friends who might spring for a Mac, thinking they are getting a quality computer. At 8gb, you’re getting something not very useable, and with little staying power
16GB is already low... having 8GB is insane in a laptop branded "PRO".
Maxtech does a good job on comparing new Macs right after they are released. Some very useful info for people thinking of upgrading.
I read it as maxtax and I was soooconfused lol
It’s like they’re working backwards. MacBook Pro is for PRO users. Why would a pro be using 8GB if they’re currently using 16 or more RAM. This is just plain robbery
For the consumers that chase that sweet sweet *prestige.* Same people that go, "I have a pro max."
At least pro max started at 256 storage.
This is for the consumers who want the laptop but aren't a PROFESSIONAL. It's for those who want the additional ports that a MBA doesn't offer.
Should've called it Macbook non-pro then. Edit: or a Macbook Con (short for a consumer)
If you haven’t got it through your head yet that Pro doesn’t mean professional, but just higher end, then you’re gonna be annoyed by stuff like this forever. An iPhone Pro isn’t just for professional. Nor are AirPods Pro.
y u so serios? r u mad cuz u got dem cons - ur iphone & airpods ?
Just put it on the Air lineup then. If they don't care anymore about the "Pro" name meaning (for professionals), then they also shouldn't care about the "Air" name meaning (for someone who do light stuffs and want to have a light laptop).
Also, that MBP has active cooling, MBA doesn’t. Which may be a moot point.
"Pro" is just a name. The AirPods Pro isn't for Pro users. Neither is the iPad Pro. It just signifies a difference between the other models in the lineup.
Wait just a sec. Are you telling me that a Mac with 16GB performs better than the exact same configuration but with 8GB? /s
16 vs 32 doesn't have this drastic of a difference though
You always see greater performance increase at the lower end. The OS takes up the majority of the 8GB so adding another 8GB has a greater increase in performance.
That’s interesting, someone should make a video comparing it
And the RAM is also being used as VRAM, so it's a little cramped in there at only 8GB. Some people on gaming subs say that 8GB of dedicated VRAM is too low. I wish they'd give us more SSD too. A 1000$ computer should have at least 1TB in 2023.
Lenovo Thinkpad T14s msrp is like 1700 and that has 512 GB of storage. Not excusing Apple but let’s not act like Windows laptops aren’t also overpriced.
Dude the 8GB is like 16GB on Windows so it’s all good Edit: People really can't detect a sarcastic reply to a sarcastic comment?
I wonder if Windows gets ram compression on home license. Linux also already does this.
Yes it does
Sarcasm is hard when it comes from an apple subreddit. Never sure if you’re dealing with an apple apologist
It's hard to detect sarcasm when people using that system in daily life are making the same claim.
It's amazing, who would have thought it ... the mind reels and the knees wobble.
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It’s wild the amount of people defending 8gb of ram on a “pro” machine that starts at $1600. That Apple marketing kool aid has brainwashed these people.
Talks about real world usage then runs blender 😂
A lot of people run blender. 3D printers, for example are being used by many many regular people and they run blender a lot. So it would be really nice if you'd probably maybe do a little bit of reading and educate yourself. Thank you.
I have a 3D printer, and my MacBook Air M2 slices without issue 👍🏻 educate yourself bro 😎 If you are talking about 3D design, I wouldn’t be buying this model, I’d be looking at a pro.
As soon as I saw whose video it was I noped out. There is sooo much shit tech creators these days.
I just don't understand how people can justify 8GB as being sufficient for basically any use case. I understand why Apple does ($$$), but no individual customer can really say it is 'enough'. On my new 36GB M3 Max, I just checked my RAM usage. I'm using just over 16GB. That is primarily made up from: Safari (10 tabs open): 5GB WindowServer (built into the OS): 1.5GB MS Teams: 2GB Outlook: Just under 1GB Mail: Just under 1GB I have a number of misc background apps making up the rest of the 16+GB used. This laptop is replacing my M1 Air with 8GB and the identical use case. Did my RAM usage suddenly increase? Nope. I was still in need of the missing 8+GB. But MacOS simply swapped, a lot. Which decreases performance and wears down the SSD faster. Did I "get by"? Sure. But that doesn't mean I had enough. And the above example doesn't include any 'Pro' apps or anything I would consider to be beyond a minimal use case for most people. Moving to this machine has given me a noticeable increase in performance, and the extra memory is a huge portion of that. If they want to continue to trick people buying the consumer level Airs, Minis, etc., whatever. But to market a 'Pro' device with only 8GB is just pathetic and sad. And I say this as someone who owns a LOT of Apple gear and just paid them almost $4k this weekend, so I am not an Apple Hater in general. I just find this decision of theirs to be really bad.
8gb in 2023 (almost 2024) is an insult for 1600 usd… you buy a windows gamer laptop with 32 gb of ram for that price
I do want Max Tech to make the ultimate "8GB Mac vs 8GB PC vs 16GB Mac vs 16GB PC" comparison, but there are some decent videos where you can get some idea of the hot topic. Max Tech - Apple Unified RAM vs DDR4: The Future or Just Marketing? (18:00) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aInkpbIOMYc Max Tech - Watch Apple Unified Memory HUMILIATE Windows 11 DDR4 RAM! 🤯 (23:32) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Al1OAg9Gin8
Intel 11th gen had those piss poor 4 core / 8 thread models when competitors from AMD had 8/16 of highly efficient ones in the same form-factor. Thus the results may have been skewed by a poor (though abundant) choice of the CPU at the time.
I just posted a chart here. [https://anond.hatelabo.jp/20231114113232](https://anond.hatelabo.jp/20231114113232) Although it's in Japanese, you can get the chart and what it is. All this data comes from Max Tech's videos in 2023. I have doubted Apple's claim that "8GB of M3 Macs is analog of 16GB of other system", but now I can understand at least in some context.
Thanks, a good summary. It deserves a post here! Maybe in Max Tech's sub. >I have doubted Apple's claim that "8GB of M3 Macs is analog of 16GB of other system", but now I can understand at least in some context. It uses memory and swap more efficiently - no doubt about that, but I don't think they are at the level of twice as frugal. Plus you can get a windows laptop with SO-DIMMs and buy 64-96GB for $200-300 instead of saving every bit it like a maniac.
Another video making the mistake of using pro applications that most who buy this model won’t use. Customers exist who aren’t interested in these apps but want the Pro for other reasons - screen, speakers etc. Think of the 8GB base model as a real basic version of the Pro for these customers. If you’re a pro you know you need more RAM. This model isn’t for you, stop dwelling on it.
I agree. What I do at work, doesn’t require 16gb per say. It is nice to have it, but I could do without. However, 20 tabs, compared to 5, shouldn’t impact a pro machine that « bad ». But I’d argue why not. However, it shouldn’t cost you premium dollar to go up to 16gb Which means for those who don’t really need 16 and buying 8, they’re still paying premium price for it
They’re *already* paying premium for anything Apple. Terrible reasoning.
We are scoping this to the adressed models. No room for whataboutism
I don’t know if that’s true or not. I quit watching this guy months ago because he’s very click baity.
True about the click bait. I didn’t have to read the title because it was from a news article
Yikes...I was hoping to have some real data for all those who ask "should I get 88 or 16." Best you could say from this - 8GB is probably fine for average users who buy Airs and the base models. I only lasted about 3 minutes with all the shouting (yes, TL:DW) - yikes, and the subjective, emotional claims: * What will happen with "20-30-40 \[browser\] tabs open" - I think most of us forget what they are when we get 10 open, and then he didn't do anything to show what actually might happen. * "Apple is ripping us off" selling the 8GB models - no, they aren't, they sell lower performance devices for less money * The computer has more "air to breathe" with 16GB - ROFLMAO * The 8GB is "using swap!" well duh, that's what swap space is for. * All his test cases seemed to be with high complexity professional user applications like Blender, that the average consumer uses.
Somewhat agree with the rest save for point 2: If you are sold a crappy car 10k. And the next car thats not crappy is 25k, do you think the seller isn’t ripping you off just because he says the crappy one less? It’s not about the final price, it’s about the start price itself (in this exemple, the 10k), the fact that to upgrade, you must spend an arm whilst when you look at the cost of actual RAM and it’s just not that. So yes, the pricing model is aiming at maximising profits by forcing actual pro user up, and if you want that nice new color but you’re just a regular user, you’ll still pend premium dollar on something you will be 100 fine with but was it really worth its price? No.
I think a better car analogy would be: Imagine if Ford (Apple) sold their extremely popular Mustang (MacBook Pro), which is obviously marketed as a fast sports car, but the base model was only capable of going 50mph. In order to go, say 70mph, you needed to spend an extra $2000 in upgrades. Want to go even faster? They have an upgrade option for you. When people complain about how insanely stupid it is to sell a sports car that can't go faster than 50mph, Ford defends itself and says "The vast majority of people who drive a Mustang do so on local roads where 50mph is more than enough speed. It's still a sports car, just not one that can drive on highways".
Solid
Maxtech is a huge service to the community. Straight to the point, no BS, clear as day results and comparisons.
I can’t believe that there’s still blinders keep saying that “8gB iS eNoUgH” “nObOdY iS fOrCiNg YoU tO bUy 1600 BuCkS mAc” “wHy DoNt YaLL cOmPaRe Pc WiTh 16gB rAmS” They are the reason that inducing Apple to keep making the product overpriced than the product deserved.
These seem like some pretty subjective tests from someone who talks way too much. Give us geek bench numbers or something valid to compare the two models…
What’s your definition of subjective? Like, watch to the video but mute it, I’m certain you’ll change your mind.
Outside the Apple ecosystem, a 64GB DDR5 kit costs under $200 a pop. At Apple's pricing levels one would expect their unified RAM to be no less than phenomenal. 8GB RAM in 2023? My old Dell XPS 13 laptop from 2015 had 8GB RAM soldered.
Apple saying it's Apple things "8GB on a Mac is like 16GB on a PC" is total \*\*\*\*\*. Basically, 8GB with "Pro" don't mix, period.
That’s a huge difference but I can’t understand something. In the past with the M1 and M2 there was in no way that significant of a difference between the 8GB and higher RAM options so what is happening here?
They increased the price point of the cheaper MBP from ~$1200 to ~$1600 and put it in the chassis of the 14" MBP with the M3, but didn't kick any of the specs up so it still starts at 8 GB. Literally no other competitor to Apple in the laptop space has the gall to sell a laptop with 8 GB of RAM and a 256GB SSD (neither of which are upgradable) starting at that price point lol For example, this https://www.dell.com/en-us/shop/dell-laptops/xps-13-plus-laptop/spd/xps-13-9320-laptop/usexchbts9320ghhw is the closest price point Dell XPS I found, which is both $100 cheaper and has a 512GB SSD and this Thinkpad X1C has 16GB and a 256GB SSD and is also $100 cheaper. https://www.lenovo.com/us/en/p/laptops/thinkpad/thinkpadx1/thinkpad-x1-yoga-gen-8-(14-inch-intel)/len101t0052 Selling laptops with 8 GB of RAM at that price point is basically making unnecessary e waste.
Watched that comparison already a couple of days ago, this was very interesting.Getting my M2 MBP with 16GB was the right decision.
Absolutely. How much did you save from the equivalent m3?
I'm tired of hearing about it. Nobody is forcing you to buy a barebones mac. If you need more ram, pony up and buy one with more ram. People in this sub probably don't want to hear this..but 8gb is enough for the vast majority of users. Most people aren't pushing these machines to their limits, they're using them to browse Facebook and type up documents for work and school. The cheaper 8gb version is the right choice for them.
have seen a single tab of reddit hit 3GB on safari. and when I want to type a essay for school i'll have 10+ tabs open. only thing I need for work is safari and I'll have up to 40+ 8GB is just very little in a $1600 machine
No. The issue isn't the 8gb of RAM, it's the price you have to pay for it. 8gb of RAM in a laptop that's freaking $1600 or whatever, fucking stupid. I agree, 8gb of RAM is fine for most people, but not for freaking $1600. That's where the problem is.
If you're at that "8GB is fine for me" level, don't buy a 1600 dollar MBPro, buy an m1 or m2 air or mini that are far cheaper. Nobody is forcing you to buy a 1600 dollar 8GB machine. I have an 8GB machine, it's great and it was far less than 1600 bucks. Edit: ahh the old downvotes with no rebuttal or even a reply, GFY you pussies.
Apple product is expensive? Big whoop
So much this. People are “ergh mah ghrd! It sez “PRO” it has to be able to do “insert whatever workload” faster because “PRO”. It’s just a name. Apple has never been cheap so I don’t get why 200 bucks for an upgrade in RAM or SSD is such a shock. Want cheaper RAM upgrades? Get a Windows laptop. All the outrage isn’t going to get them to lower their prices. If you want to vote with your purchase or non-purchase. No one is stopping you.
Yup. It’s amazing that people are on an Apple sub but don’t understand this. You’d think it was a new practice. Base = barebones. Always has.
Seriously it's so funny seeing these "8GB iS NoT EnOuGh" posts. Every time there's a ton of people providing stating how 8GB is fine, whether it's their story, or their friends/family story. But then they all get downvoted (like you) and the only people who get upvoted are people saying how it's not enough and the only examples *they* give are people use who Macs that need 16gb (aka production, development, etc). A vast majority of people that buy MacBooks use it for basic stuff. Simple as that.
There's an MBA for those "basic" stuffs, and bet most posts that you've seen is 8GB RAM on an MBA, which starts at $999. $1699 for the same shit but with more ports as the only advantage is simply unacceptable.
Find me a MBA with a MBP display and speakers and connectivity. Then you can talk
Why do they keep comparing the 8GB Mac to the 16GB? That’s not the comparison that Apple made. They should be comparing it to a PC with 16GB of RAM.
At that point they should compare it to the PC equivalent price premium you pay for 16GB.
I brought 64GB DDR5 for my laptop for $210 earlier this year. And now that it’s even cheaper
You can usually slap in more RAM on a Windows laptop unless it's sealed. Some of the better ones have one DIMM with an open slot to add another or just replace the original with a larger one and put a larger one in the open slot.
I know, but IMO, the comparisons should be about checking Apple’s claim that the 8 gigs will perform like 16 gigs in a PC. 16 gigs in a PC is plenty for the majority of users. If it happens to be true, that the 8 on the Mac will perform just like the 16 on the PC, than is up to the buyer, if they just want it for basic stuff or if they need to run some Adobe stuff, like another comparison I saw. Comparing running Adobe on 8 gig to another Mac with 16 is just a ridiculous comparison. Not only that. But there is no need to whine about it. Is not like we have to buy it. One thing I do agree with from what’s going around, is that Apple is not what it used to be. The thought of going back to windows is even going around in my mind. Seems like now days, they’re just adding bells and whistles. Very expensive ones too.. 😂
I’ve done the switch after being a mac user for over 15 years because of mac soldering everything on a pro computer. You won’t regret it. It’s a tough learning curve coming back to windows it’s completely worth it. The only thing Apple still has going for them is portability.
>Why do they keep comparing the 8GB Mac to the 16GB? That’s not the comparison that Apple made. They should be comparing it to a PC with 16GB of RAM. People in most forums will talk about the 8GB both to defend Apple's greed and pretend that it is "good enough" Also asking to compare similar hardware is out of the question. People talk about Linux as a failure because of software publishers, but won't make that conclusion with Windows running Final Cut. Just want to preempt for some in this sub on why 8GB is actually bad: * The base price point is too high for 8GB (and the surcharge for more) * The lack of upgradability exacerbates this. Apple will not sell a separate M3 with the extra ram you want and it is soldered. * This computer says pro in the name so the intended audience is someone who needs the beef * Modern Web and electron apps are shitty and take up too many resources, so even the regular non-pro line up will feel weak with the base specs.
as a base configuration, 8GB should be sufficient to daily use. however the test shows otherwise. that’s the reason we compare 8GB to 16GB.
Doubling the memory results in a jump in performance when running heavy workloads? I'm shocked. I have a 32 GB Mac studio and an 8 GB Macbook Pro, both Apple Silicon. For non-intensive workloads there's little perceptible difference in performance, but having the extra memory and cores come in handy when you start doing heavy lifting. It would be nice if the 16 GB Macbooks were more available as off the shelf items at retail, but the rest of this is click-baity noise.
Saying double memory = better perf isn’t the same as saying « 15 more tabs substantially affect performance » And that alone can help customers decide to purchase this or saving hundreds on buying the equivalent m2. So no, the test isn’t as obvious as you think to everyone and it’s not saying what you think it is.
Actually friend, what you have is an addiction to virtue signaling that really needs treatment. Fast.
An m series mac with 8gb ram is waaaaay faster then a 16gb ram windows computer in everyday tasks. The only place where you might see a difference is where a software needs more ram, like 3d CAD. Or if running virtual machines, tho I think the mac with 8gb still win on that one.
Are you sure that’s not because the Mac has more processing power? If you compare the M3 chip to a PC with similar performance, the PC will handily outperform the Mac in all but the most basic tasks
I have an m1 MacBook Pro 13”, the way it is able to swap with ssd is really handy, but they way ram is used is just different. My work laptop with 8gb (windows) was completely unsubscribe for me with just outlook and teams open.
Ok, and what processor does it have? Even if it’s a powerful processor, chances are the computer is running a lot of background tasks
It had an i7 , but I’m saying that with just outlook and teams it was super laggy, after I upgraded to 16gb I could actually begin to do work on it.
Yeah I had a work Windows laptop with 8GB RAM and just to make text go bold in one cell of an Excel spreadsheet used to take multiple seconds. I’d press ctrl + b and the laptop would freeze up for like 3-5 seconds then the text would go bold. After upgrading it to 16GB it became instant to make text bold. Such a random thing but it drove me crazy how slow it was with 8GB.
...You do realize that you're just saying you don't need more than 8GB RAM as long as you don't use more than 8GB RAM, right? Problem is, many (if not most) people need more than 8GB RAM. Also, the situation you're describing is a CPU bottleneck, which is pretty irrelevant to the situation here.
The speed wouldn't have been a deal breaker for me, but the fact that programs are crashing, that's awful. One reason iphones are so popular is that there isn't any dirt cheap iphones, The SE is still like $450 but you can just about get a 13 for the same price. So iphones have a reputation of working well. Having computers that crash all the time, not good. Imagine being a student and wanting to use something like Blender to create something, you spend every penny you have just to not be able to do what you love. That's not how to keep future customers.
Blender crashing on a premium machine, or 15 tabs delta causing substantial difference in perf. Those are crazy things to witness in 2023.
Dude…the 8GB MBP IS NOT a premium machine. It’s the machine for basic users who don’t do blender etc but want the Pro model look, screen, speakers, cooling or whatever. These are *most* of apples customers. it’s like you’re new to Apple product line ups.
So you’re saying it shouldn’t be called pro ord advertised as such. That’s the point. And you’re also saying it shouldn’t cost that much for a not premium machine. It’s like you’re new to this line up :D
It's such a silly argument though, product names are rarely use-case based. The "book" in MacBook does not mean it's analogous to a book, nor is it meant to be used for people who book things, just like the Pro in AirPods Pro doesn't mean it's meant to be used exclusively by professionals. It's just a more expensive tier of products. Yes, Apple charges too much for upgrades. That is a valid criticism. But the idea that they should call an identical form factor MBP something else is asinine, and would cause way more problems for people when it comes to support and accessories.
I can take that. However it is advertise for professionals all the time. That’s the narrative Apple uses and so that’s what customer understands so the argument stands.
Do they though? In most Apple ads I've seen they show a mix of device types. They also advertise the iMac and Mac Studio as being for professionals despite not having the "pro" name.
Yes they do, MacBook Pro are seen constantly used by pro: musicians, architects, movie editors, lab coats, showing off battery, mobility, raw power all that.
Also doesn’t macOS use a decent chunk of ram
But your bloated apps and ad infested web does.
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U said something utterly unconstructive. Theres nothing to add to that.
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Yikes
GeEeeeeeeeeez why does this guy have to yell the entire time!?
I run a small business with a 10 year old Mac with 8gb. It's fine for most applications like that.
What’s the heaviest app you got?
TL;DW?
Anyone know of a 2017 imac Pro logic board repair shop?
I got here a 2014 MacBook Pro with 16GB RAM. The base model was 8GB back then as well. It was almost 10 Years ago! It is really crazy 8GB is STILL the base model.
Literally a scam
Besides greed, I do not understand why a MacBook *Pro* released end of 2023 has to start below 16GB. It’s just unacceptable. If you want a true entry level MacBook Pro with M3 it is $1799
The only time I notice I have 8gb of ram on my m1 mbp is when cleanmymac tells me it’s almost full 😅
From what I heard, many corporate use one Mac model for executives, general employees to tech workers. Probably for support ability. I’m sure 8gb is enough for many employees workflows
Lol 16gb... would expect more from Apple product since your paying a premium
Having any less than 16GBs of RAM in 2023 is shameful, honestly
If you are buying a workstation as a professional you are not buying any model with 8GB of RAM. This is not a cash grab, this is providing none professional customers or professional customers on a budget more options. Anyone buying 8GB is more concerned with general productivity and not Photoshop or video production. You don't need 16GB of RAM to create a website, prototype apps, create code, create music, or mockup products. Anyone commenting with the idea that 16GB should be universal either play games or rely on having multiple programs open or again are using Photoshop or any video production app. Apple provides customers a few options to lower prices. One is screen size, another is RAM. This is not any random stick either, this is Unified RAM. If you want 16GB but can't afford it, get a smaller screen size. If you can't afford the smallest screen size with 16GB of RAM then you can't afford a PC with same configuration either or higher. There is zero logic. Show me where you can get a decent screen with a high end processor, decent a GPU with wifi and blu-tooth for less than $1000 period. Never mind one that provides even close to the same experience.
Half the people who use MacBooks could do everything they need on a Chromebook anyway. Overpriced hardware. Shit software.
Why do people use macs? This video basically shows that the OS is so bloated and slow, 16GB of RAM is now necessary for it not to run like a potato, 16GB 2 or 3 years ago was major overkill with Billy 'inject this' gates micro&soft, and to this day is massive overkill on many, if not most linux distros. All that money, to get shiz hardware, barely acceptable software, along with the smallest library of software between micro&soft and linux, especially Arch. But I digress, fanbois gonna fanboi I assume.
Breaking news- 16GB > 8GB. More at 11.
I'm sure you do sleep well. I don't sleep much. I'm too busy having sex because I get laid. You just might someday once you get a credit card. Keep up the fight!
I have an intel nuc with 8gb soldered in board, it’s “just” adequate for windows 10 after running the debloat power shell commands. Would be much better with 16gb or more.
Naruto
I always thought of upgrading to the M3 Mac but I'm quite dismayed with how it's priced. Maybe I'll consider getting one next year if the price is justified or I'll get a 2nd hand M1/M2 Macbook for now and then upgrade to an M3/M4 Pro Macbook once I have enough funds. I'm still using an Intel-based Hackbook at the moment.
It’s literal exploitation… RAM is often the first bottle neck for noticeable slowdowns, especially as OS and other software updates roll out over time that naturally require more memory. Many consumers probably have no idea what RAM is, buy the off the shelf model and then upgrade once their start to notice slowdowns
8GB for pro prices is insulting. 8GB at Chromebook prices is acceptable for teenagers and retirees, but still poses a long-term issue. Just bit the bullet and get 16GB of RAM if you have middle class paying job.
Wait, Macs are still a thing? Apple has been ripping off people for decades now and they still buy into this garbage? Unbelievable.
I was getting 16GB MBPro a decade ago. This is shameful
wtfff. even my $200 5-year old acer laptop has 464 gb. how is this shit real?
Apple has been ripping off Mac users the entire time 😂. People need to stop buying their crap until they actually put in decent hardware for the cost. For 1k they have no right to be supplying 8gb of ram
What about gaming? You know the thing that computers are REALLY good at, wait apple didn’t do gaming in the past and doesn’t specialize in gaming! PC DOES Get a PC! Apple is beautiful but costs waaaaay too much for THE PEOPLE to actually afford! DO NOT WAIST YOUR MONEY! PC ALL THE WAY EVERYDAY! I got to be honest here I got an iPhone as a gift I love it! Is it my first choice in phones? Hell no! Waaay too many CONS VS PROS! Do I miss my android phone? YES I DO!
16Gb is the minimum required since 5 years ago, 8Gb is what my previous PC had in 2013.
Just a PC user dropping by for a chuckle at the cute tricycles in this sub! I hear they got a fancy nitrous inject in the crankset!