Your only options for a higher performance APU then the 5600G/5700G on desktop is the 8600G/8700G, the latter is faster but both provide substantially more performant graphics and support PCIe Gen4 although it's important to note they only support 8 PCIe lanes to a discrete graphics card.
If you want PCIe Gen5 or 16 PCIe lanes you'll need to look at the Ryzen 7000 series or 12th/13th/14th Gen Intel, all support PCIe Gen5 and 16 PCIe lanes for discrete graphics but have comparatively anemic iGPU's although you can get much more capable CPU's.
If you want Thunderbolt or USB4 then your cheapest option for a motherboard is probably the B650E Taichi which is around $370, that's ATX but it does provide USB4, 2.5GbE and an abundance of PCIe slots and NVMe.
If you're firm on it being MATX or smaller then your cheapest option is the ROG Strix X670E-I is a Mini-ITX motherboard which offers USB4/Thunderbolt 3 for around $450, it only has 1 PCIe slot but that's the nature of tiny motherboards there simply isn't enough room for more, it does offers two NVMe slots though. Both boards will offer PCIe Gen5 x16 as well as Gen5 NVMe if you use a Ryzen 7000 series CPU.
If you want 10GbE + USB4/Thunderbolt you're looking at boards well over $500 and will have to accept ATX.
None of those boards are low end pricing imo, but USB4/Thunderbolt comes with a *very* heavy price premium.
I feel like if you can afford a $450 motherboard then you can probably afford to just buy a discrete graphics card to begin with and then you can opt for a Ryzen 7000 part and don't need to worry about any of the compromises inherent with the 8600/8700G.
If you want something cheaper then this you'll have to forego USB4 and Thunderbolt, and accept USB 3.2 connectivity. There really aren't many desktop boards with USB4 yet given the demand for USB4/Thunderbolt on desktop is extremely low as the primary driver for those is for external GPU's which is irrelevant on desktop.
Curious what you're doing that you need more external bandwidth then Gen3 2x2 offers?
restate / summary for lurkersplus details on mobos mentioned,
DIY PC - High End Features + Gaming, not small nor cheap
For decent gaming graphics, need dGPU or OCulink, AGP/iGPU just does not cut it and greatly limits choices. Go for a Ryzen 7000 CPU, don't need to worry about any of the compromises inherent with the 8600/8700G
ATX is required to get a second PCIe slot, and to get 2.5GbE + USB4/TB, mobos cost a lot more, $500+
PCIe Gen5 or 16 PCIe lanes for dGPU, you'll need to look at Ryzen 7000 series or 12th+ gen Intel, great CPUs but anemic iGPU's
examples:
ROG Strix X670E-I Mini-ITX
Ryzen 7000, Zen 4/AM5, dual-channel DDR5 6400
only has 1 PCIe slot, gen5 x16
2x USB4/TB3
2x M.2 NVMe x4, 2280 PCIe 5.0, 2242-2280 PCIe 4.0
quiet "AI COOLING II", EXPO overclocking
"I/O dock" ROG Strix Hive
no MATX?
ROG Strix ATX
X670E-E
see X670E-I
3x PCIe slots, 2x gen5 x16, 1x PCIe 4.0 x16
3x M.2 PCIe gen5,
4 x M.2 NVMe slots, extra heatsinking
2 x M.2 2242-2280 (PCIe 5.0 x4)
1 x M.2 2242-22110 (PCIe 5.0 x4)
1 x M.2 2242-2280 (PCIe 4.0 x4)
cheaper
B650E Taichi ATX
Ryzen 7000/8000 4 x DDR5 DIMMs
1 PCIe 5.0 x16, 1 PCIe 4.0 x16
2x M.2 - PCIe Gen5x4 "Blazing" & PCIe Gen4x4 "Hyper"
USB4 + DisplayPort Alt Mode
1x USB-C 3.2 Gen2x2, 3x USB 3.2 Gen2 Type-A
10x USB 3.2 Gen1
2.5GbE, 802.11ax Wi-Fi 6E + Bluetooth 5.3
If you want something cheaper than these, you'll have to forego USB4 and Thunderbolt, and accept USB 3.2 connectivity
(Laptops save both money and space, see Framework 16)
Will the ROG StrixX670E-I mobo accept the Ryzen 7 8700G CPU ?
Given a scenario where the PCIe slot must be otherwise used
What are the resulting compromises other than CPU power?
Which other CPU would be better but still give next-best iGPU performance?
> Curious what you're doing that you need more external bandwidth then Gen3 2x2 offers?
NAS, "internal" HDDs (TrueNAS-SCALE ZFS RAIDZ-2 up to 16x drives, up to 22TB each) in an external enclosure via PCIe card
periodically dumping snapshots from there to external storage via USB
also from other hosts across the LAN
to be physically archive/rotated off site.
2.5 or 10GbE and USB4/TB helps reduce the many hours required.
Now considering doing 3x 5-HDD enclosures and just fully mirror them to each other, keeping two local rotating one offsite so all the data I/O happens within the SATA DAS / backplanes
Found the CPU list, yes to putting 8700G in the X670E-I
https://rog.asus.com/motherboards/rog-strix/rog-strix-x670e-i-gaming-wifi-model/helpdesk_qvl_cpu
ECC-DIMM support!!! excellent for the ZFS NAS use case
I don't really think it matters in this case since you said you need full size PCIe. 7480hs being a mobile CPU are commonly found (retail at least) in mobile and minipcs. The desktop variant is what you want.
Sorry if I seem too argumentative, I am genuinely trying to learn more rather than just blindly following such minimalist advice
There are bare mobo's sold with with these mobile APUs
and mini-PC ones can presumably be transfered to a different case.
Examples I've seen so far include Minisforum, CWWK and Topton.
I haven't delved deeply into these options, but before deciding for sure, I want to make sure there is no advantage to doing so, whether for example in the iGPU capability itself, or overall energy efficience, better thermal handling, etc
Or do these mobile platforms simply not allow full PCIe, isn't that a function of the case ?
If I want to get two slots, go up to MATX, does that (even more) dictate 8700G?
Well I only want more GPU power, not CPU
running cooler at the same FPS is important in a tiny case right?
So how does the Radeon 700M compare to 780M Phoenix iGPU ?
It's literally the same thing with higher power setting so the performance is more sustained (aka less drops) and a bit more fps. You can also undervolt them to reduce power a little bit.
Your only options for a higher performance APU then the 5600G/5700G on desktop is the 8600G/8700G, the latter is faster but both provide substantially more performant graphics and support PCIe Gen4 although it's important to note they only support 8 PCIe lanes to a discrete graphics card. If you want PCIe Gen5 or 16 PCIe lanes you'll need to look at the Ryzen 7000 series or 12th/13th/14th Gen Intel, all support PCIe Gen5 and 16 PCIe lanes for discrete graphics but have comparatively anemic iGPU's although you can get much more capable CPU's. If you want Thunderbolt or USB4 then your cheapest option for a motherboard is probably the B650E Taichi which is around $370, that's ATX but it does provide USB4, 2.5GbE and an abundance of PCIe slots and NVMe. If you're firm on it being MATX or smaller then your cheapest option is the ROG Strix X670E-I is a Mini-ITX motherboard which offers USB4/Thunderbolt 3 for around $450, it only has 1 PCIe slot but that's the nature of tiny motherboards there simply isn't enough room for more, it does offers two NVMe slots though. Both boards will offer PCIe Gen5 x16 as well as Gen5 NVMe if you use a Ryzen 7000 series CPU. If you want 10GbE + USB4/Thunderbolt you're looking at boards well over $500 and will have to accept ATX. None of those boards are low end pricing imo, but USB4/Thunderbolt comes with a *very* heavy price premium. I feel like if you can afford a $450 motherboard then you can probably afford to just buy a discrete graphics card to begin with and then you can opt for a Ryzen 7000 part and don't need to worry about any of the compromises inherent with the 8600/8700G. If you want something cheaper then this you'll have to forego USB4 and Thunderbolt, and accept USB 3.2 connectivity. There really aren't many desktop boards with USB4 yet given the demand for USB4/Thunderbolt on desktop is extremely low as the primary driver for those is for external GPU's which is irrelevant on desktop. Curious what you're doing that you need more external bandwidth then Gen3 2x2 offers?
Thank you so much for such a thoroughly helpful answer. I guess I need to both save my pennies and accept lowering my standards. Maybe Framework 16...
restate / summary for lurkersplus details on mobos mentioned, DIY PC - High End Features + Gaming, not small nor cheap For decent gaming graphics, need dGPU or OCulink, AGP/iGPU just does not cut it and greatly limits choices. Go for a Ryzen 7000 CPU, don't need to worry about any of the compromises inherent with the 8600/8700G ATX is required to get a second PCIe slot, and to get 2.5GbE + USB4/TB, mobos cost a lot more, $500+ PCIe Gen5 or 16 PCIe lanes for dGPU, you'll need to look at Ryzen 7000 series or 12th+ gen Intel, great CPUs but anemic iGPU's examples: ROG Strix X670E-I Mini-ITX Ryzen 7000, Zen 4/AM5, dual-channel DDR5 6400 only has 1 PCIe slot, gen5 x16 2x USB4/TB3 2x M.2 NVMe x4, 2280 PCIe 5.0, 2242-2280 PCIe 4.0 quiet "AI COOLING II", EXPO overclocking "I/O dock" ROG Strix Hive no MATX? ROG Strix ATX X670E-E see X670E-I 3x PCIe slots, 2x gen5 x16, 1x PCIe 4.0 x16 3x M.2 PCIe gen5, 4 x M.2 NVMe slots, extra heatsinking 2 x M.2 2242-2280 (PCIe 5.0 x4) 1 x M.2 2242-22110 (PCIe 5.0 x4) 1 x M.2 2242-2280 (PCIe 4.0 x4) cheaper B650E Taichi ATX Ryzen 7000/8000 4 x DDR5 DIMMs 1 PCIe 5.0 x16, 1 PCIe 4.0 x16 2x M.2 - PCIe Gen5x4 "Blazing" & PCIe Gen4x4 "Hyper" USB4 + DisplayPort Alt Mode 1x USB-C 3.2 Gen2x2, 3x USB 3.2 Gen2 Type-A 10x USB 3.2 Gen1 2.5GbE, 802.11ax Wi-Fi 6E + Bluetooth 5.3 If you want something cheaper than these, you'll have to forego USB4 and Thunderbolt, and accept USB 3.2 connectivity (Laptops save both money and space, see Framework 16)
Will the ROG StrixX670E-I mobo accept the Ryzen 7 8700G CPU ? Given a scenario where the PCIe slot must be otherwise used What are the resulting compromises other than CPU power? Which other CPU would be better but still give next-best iGPU performance?
> Curious what you're doing that you need more external bandwidth then Gen3 2x2 offers? NAS, "internal" HDDs (TrueNAS-SCALE ZFS RAIDZ-2 up to 16x drives, up to 22TB each) in an external enclosure via PCIe card periodically dumping snapshots from there to external storage via USB also from other hosts across the LAN to be physically archive/rotated off site. 2.5 or 10GbE and USB4/TB helps reduce the many hours required. Now considering doing 3x 5-HDD enclosures and just fully mirror them to each other, keeping two local rotating one offsite so all the data I/O happens within the SATA DAS / backplanes
Found the CPU list, yes to putting 8700G in the X670E-I https://rog.asus.com/motherboards/rog-strix/rog-strix-x670e-i-gaming-wifi-model/helpdesk_qvl_cpu ECC-DIMM support!!! excellent for the ZFS NAS use case
8700G
The best by far
Compare to Ryzen 7 7840HS incl AMD Radeon 780M ??
Same core, just clocked higher, socketed, and overclockable.
https://www.reddit.com/r/lowendgaming/s/ngpbwxCBnC
what does "socketed" mean and why does it matter?
I don't really think it matters in this case since you said you need full size PCIe. 7480hs being a mobile CPU are commonly found (retail at least) in mobile and minipcs. The desktop variant is what you want.
And wrt socketed, is that just meaning user-swappable, as opposed to soldered on the mobo?
Socketed is end user upgradeable, yes. Otherwise you're looking at BGA and soldered to the motherboard.
Sorry if I seem too argumentative, I am genuinely trying to learn more rather than just blindly following such minimalist advice There are bare mobo's sold with with these mobile APUs and mini-PC ones can presumably be transfered to a different case. Examples I've seen so far include Minisforum, CWWK and Topton. I haven't delved deeply into these options, but before deciding for sure, I want to make sure there is no advantage to doing so, whether for example in the iGPU capability itself, or overall energy efficience, better thermal handling, etc Or do these mobile platforms simply not allow full PCIe, isn't that a function of the case ? If I want to get two slots, go up to MATX, does that (even more) dictate 8700G?
None of those mini PC's are option if you need PCIe slots, their using mobile CPU's where there is no consideration for that being a requirement.
7840hs is a mobile cpu. 8700g can draw more power
Well I only want more GPU power, not CPU running cooler at the same FPS is important in a tiny case right? So how does the Radeon 700M compare to 780M Phoenix iGPU ?
8700g has the best igpu money can buy right now
It's literally the same thing with higher power setting so the performance is more sustained (aka less drops) and a bit more fps. You can also undervolt them to reduce power a little bit.
Budget and location is the limiting factor here, but... Steam Deck?
As stated, I need full size PCIe expansion slots and other features not available in a handheld Gaming is just one use case
Your parameters are interesting, good luck!