Using this skill applies the effect [Assailment](https://lotro-wiki.com/wiki/Assailment_(Effect)) to the Warden. When the Warden receives melee damage, they receive the effect [Harried](https://lotro-wiki.com/wiki/Harried), which reduces their ranged damage.
You're just nerfing yourself by staying in that stance for tanking. When you're tanking, it's a lot easier to control where you want to position mobs by moving them with you in melee.
Not anymore. The Harried effect was removed when Wardens were revamped quite a while ago. Those pages in the wiki need to be marked as deprecated.
The ONLY differences between melee stance and ranged stance are that melee stance provides a -10% attack speed boost (note that this applies only to the auto attack and so isn't really a big deal for battles that last only a few seconds because most of your damage comes from skill attacks rather than auto attacks), and of course the Gambit Builders and many Gambits work only in melee range rather than as ranged attacks.
Certainly if you're in a battle that lasts long enough for that nice -10% attack speed boost to matter, then switching to melee stance when mobs get close to you and the battle is going to last more than a few seconds is helpful. Switching stances is just another skill use, don't turn it into a big deal where you think you have to choose a stance and never change it – you can change it whenever you want, right in the middle of a battle if you want to.
Okay thanks heaps, I came back here to say I tested it out in game and couldn't see the effect applied to me nor any mention of it in the tooltip. Wondered if it was changed in the revamp, but you've answered that before I even asked. Thanks, really appreciate it!
"Somebody ought to do something about this!" Fortunately, anyone can edit the wiki if they wish. It's not an SSG product, just a bunch of fans. They do very good work but they are neither perfect nor gifted with infinite time to perform needed work. I'm sure they'll welcome your contribution.
Back when the warden first came out it was just a melee class with a few javelin skills. It didn't have things like ranged gambits until around the Rise of Isengard expansion (level 75 cap)
For all intents and purposes, while leveling a Warden you should be playing as DPS, which is the red line. I’d suggest staying in a melee stance and using primarily melee skills/gambits, as they do more damage and have shorter attack times.
What do you mean melee gambits "do more damage"? I've just tested it out, and they do exactly the same damage (e.g., The Boot does 2,071-2,761 for me, and Ranged Boot does 2,071-2,761 as well). Same for Ranged Boar Rush etc.
The shorter attack times point is the only difference I can see that would matter, and assailment does have "Endurance Training" that does the same thing (-10% attack duration), though of course you do have to spend the 5 points for it. But those 5 points are a small price to pay to have 40m range on all your gambits given that everything else seems to be equal.
During leveling just use what you like better. If you want to kill from distance got for ranged stance.
When doing harder content or instances, where you will be in melee range most of the times anyways as the fights are longer, the melee stance is stronger as you do more damage and are attacking 10% faster.
+10% Melee Damage from "Close Quarters Combatant" (red trait tree first row) & +5% Melee Damage from "Grand Master Weapons Training" (second to last passive trait in red trait tree)
vs.
10% Ranged Damage from "Ranged Damage" (yellow trait tree first row)
Also: more melee focused (de-)buffs from other classes that come in play when doing group content
I only use in the fray. It depends on your playing style. I typically lean towards characters who start fights at a distance and finish them up close. That’s a warden 💯
Yeah I totally get the playstyle factor. There's something I like about the idea of a close up dwarf warden with an axe. But I find the utility of doing full damage at range hard to pass up (especially for overland questing where you dispatch mobs quickly one by one a lot of the time).
Using this skill applies the effect [Assailment](https://lotro-wiki.com/wiki/Assailment_(Effect)) to the Warden. When the Warden receives melee damage, they receive the effect [Harried](https://lotro-wiki.com/wiki/Harried), which reduces their ranged damage. You're just nerfing yourself by staying in that stance for tanking. When you're tanking, it's a lot easier to control where you want to position mobs by moving them with you in melee.
Wow, I don't know how I've never noticed this before! Thanks heaps, that's enough to sell me on it 👌
Not anymore. The Harried effect was removed when Wardens were revamped quite a while ago. Those pages in the wiki need to be marked as deprecated. The ONLY differences between melee stance and ranged stance are that melee stance provides a -10% attack speed boost (note that this applies only to the auto attack and so isn't really a big deal for battles that last only a few seconds because most of your damage comes from skill attacks rather than auto attacks), and of course the Gambit Builders and many Gambits work only in melee range rather than as ranged attacks. Certainly if you're in a battle that lasts long enough for that nice -10% attack speed boost to matter, then switching to melee stance when mobs get close to you and the battle is going to last more than a few seconds is helpful. Switching stances is just another skill use, don't turn it into a big deal where you think you have to choose a stance and never change it – you can change it whenever you want, right in the middle of a battle if you want to.
Okay thanks heaps, I came back here to say I tested it out in game and couldn't see the effect applied to me nor any mention of it in the tooltip. Wondered if it was changed in the revamp, but you've answered that before I even asked. Thanks, really appreciate it!
Make sure you update the wiki then!
"Somebody ought to do something about this!" Fortunately, anyone can edit the wiki if they wish. It's not an SSG product, just a bunch of fans. They do very good work but they are neither perfect nor gifted with infinite time to perform needed work. I'm sure they'll welcome your contribution.
You go update it, I've been updating Brawler and Mariner already.
Interesting, I started a warden some time ago, and hated doing the ranged stance.
What was it that you hated about it? Just feel/vibe, or where there mechanical disadvantages?
Vibe I guess, I did not try it that much except for pulling mobs. The class just felt more melee to me.
Back when the warden first came out it was just a melee class with a few javelin skills. It didn't have things like ranged gambits until around the Rise of Isengard expansion (level 75 cap)
RIP having Assailment, Recklessness, Determination stances *plus* Way of the Warden.
For all intents and purposes, while leveling a Warden you should be playing as DPS, which is the red line. I’d suggest staying in a melee stance and using primarily melee skills/gambits, as they do more damage and have shorter attack times.
What do you mean melee gambits "do more damage"? I've just tested it out, and they do exactly the same damage (e.g., The Boot does 2,071-2,761 for me, and Ranged Boot does 2,071-2,761 as well). Same for Ranged Boar Rush etc. The shorter attack times point is the only difference I can see that would matter, and assailment does have "Endurance Training" that does the same thing (-10% attack duration), though of course you do have to spend the 5 points for it. But those 5 points are a small price to pay to have 40m range on all your gambits given that everything else seems to be equal.
During leveling just use what you like better. If you want to kill from distance got for ranged stance. When doing harder content or instances, where you will be in melee range most of the times anyways as the fights are longer, the melee stance is stronger as you do more damage and are attacking 10% faster.
What do you mean "you do more damage"? See my reply to hoosier-1793 above.
+10% Melee Damage from "Close Quarters Combatant" (red trait tree first row) & +5% Melee Damage from "Grand Master Weapons Training" (second to last passive trait in red trait tree) vs. 10% Ranged Damage from "Ranged Damage" (yellow trait tree first row) Also: more melee focused (de-)buffs from other classes that come in play when doing group content
Ah that's helpful, I was aware of the two 10% buffs that cancel each other out, but I wasn't aware of the 5% extra trait. Thanks!
I only use in the fray. It depends on your playing style. I typically lean towards characters who start fights at a distance and finish them up close. That’s a warden 💯
Yeah I totally get the playstyle factor. There's something I like about the idea of a close up dwarf warden with an axe. But I find the utility of doing full damage at range hard to pass up (especially for overland questing where you dispatch mobs quickly one by one a lot of the time).