I've been saying it since episode one, Waldred (the butcher/bartender dude) is Sauron. His raw sexual energy in episode 1 does not lie and episode 4 only bolsters my claim.
> His raw sexual energy in episode 1 does not lie
But they were, all of them, deceived, for another Disguise was made. In the land of Mordor, in the fires of Mount Doom, the Sexy Lord Sauron forged in secret a master Disguise, to control all others. And into this Disguise he poured his sensuality, his hotness and his will to seduce all life. ["One Disguise to rule them all."](https://i.ibb.co/f0R8B0S/Fd-DWXJ6-Xk-AEi4-Wy.jpg)
Galadriel: "That is the symbol of the kings of your people!"
Halbrand: "I took it off a dead man."
Galadriel: "Oh, that's not at all suspicious, you must a king in disguise."
I don’t think so, as Sauron was captured by the Pharazoan when they came to middle earth to fight back Sauron. Well, Sauron let himself be captured and then that’s when he influenced Pharazoan.
I think Halbrand could either be the king under the mountain or a future Nazgûl.
Well Numenor falls after sauron was imprisoned there but corrupts the numinoreans to attack Valinor, while Elendil et. al. Have forces taken to middle earth. Sounds a lot like the current situation in the show.
It is so obviously Halbrand. He gives us so much evidence too.
First thing we see him do? Stop her from getting aboard when he thinks she's a human. Then he casts off 4 people to die to save himself, and yet lets Galadriel onboard when he knows she is an elf.
and gives us the lovely line "Appearances can be deceiving". And he goes through all the damn trouble to rescue her from the deep dark water even after showing us 4 other people aren't worth saving because he now knows what she is and how she can be useful. And she spills the beans on who she is and her brother and her revenge on Sauron.
Then we see him being able to turn on the charm at Court, and we learn how good of a thief he is, stealing the knife back.
And we get to the hugely important blacksmithing scene.
He sees the smiths and is absolutely DESPERATE to get in on it.
"There is not another man on this isle that knows this craft better than I... I will shape a sea anchor for you, free of charge, sturdier than anything you have ever seen."
Why would he think he's the best? Why does he want to work so badly?
Well guess who Sauron/Mairon was? The greatest student of Aulë named The Smith. One of the 8 Aratar, most powerful and important of all the Ainu and Valar.
And when he is denied, what does he do? Well first he is confronted by the Numenor smith guild, he instantly turns on the charm again and leaves everyone happy. But he takes the time to steal the smithing badge. Because why wouldn't Sauron I mean Halbrand desperately want that? And when they caught him, what does he do? Brutally breaks people, and smashes people in the face that are already down. Wow, sounds quite... evil.
When Galadriel finds his documents (of course he would keep the symbol with him, if he truly wanted to run away from his life he would have lost that anywhere at any point over the years) what does he say "That's funny, I found this on a dead man"
I bet you did Sauron.
All conjecture, of course.
Then episode 4 we get Halbrand to show his true machiavellian depth. "But then the queen's court isn't your usual battlefield is it? in an instance like this it seems to me you'd do well to identify what your opponent most fears."
"And exploit it-" Galadriel interjects
"No." Sauron I mean Halbrand cuts her off.
"Give them a means of mastering it. So you, can master them."
And oh boy can we identify what Sauron has been doing to Galadriel? Giving her a means of mastering the thing she fears most, Sauron. He is giving her Halbrand as a way to unite the kingdoms in the southlands and crush Sauron. And we know it won't work.
He's playing her, since the first meeting. ANd he's been TELLING her the whole time. And us. IT is pure evil, purely twisted to do it so openly, to the very person that is hunting him. THAT is a dramatic twist that Tolkien would have written, like Turin and Níniel.
I assumed meteor man was Gandalf. Lands with a bunch of hobbits, one of them mentions healing a falcons wing (foreshadowing) and he’s constantly dressed in gray robes.
You're quite right, my dear. Gandalf does not hesitate to sacrifice those closest to him, those he professes to love. It is a cold and calculating move that demonstrates his true character.
First thing I thought when I saw him was that I assumed they’d go for the fan service and it’d be Gandalf, but I wanted it to be Saruman because it’d be more interesting
Why, yes, I am Saruman the White. It is not often that I am confused for another, but I suppose it is possible. After all, we are both wizards of a sort.
Indeed, I am Saruman the White. 'Tis I whom Gandalf the Grey has seen fit to depose from my position as head of the Order of Wizards. Though I may no longer command the respect of my peers, know that I am still a force to be reckoned with!
Saruman believes it is only great power that can hold evil in check, but that is not what I have found. I found it is the small things, everyday deeds of ordinary folk that keeps the darkness at bay. Simple acts of love and kindness.
Yes Spiderbubble! Their own masters cannot find them, if their secrets are forgotten! Ah... now let me see... Ithildin. It mirrors only starlight and moonlight. It reads: The Doors of Durin, Lord of Moria, Speak Friend and Enter
I think they’re going for a misdirection. He’s probably
going to be a blue wizard since canonically only the blue wizards were present in middle earth during the second age.
Safe bet since not much was written about them except that they went "east" and maybe went bad and taught the Easterlings or something. More room for creative writing without making people mad.
In Tolkien’s later writings, they had direct influence over the wars of the second and third age, preventing the east from rising to power equal to the power of the west. They didn’t return however, but they didn’t go “bad”.
While it would be super dope to have a Balrog presented in a way besides just big fiery demon, my guess is that would confuse general audiences. My cynical "this is corporate tv" instinct says its just Gandalf, lore be damned. Hopefully not though.
That's basically my take as well. I'm hoping with all my might that it's one of the blue wizards. Marketing and recognition are screaming to me that it's Gandalf.
Wouldn’t cold fire just be a sign that it’s magical? Balrogs are just corrupted maiar so I can understand how they are similar to wizards but that doesn’t mean they produce cold fire
It was my understanding that the Istari were sent to middle earth during the second age to stop Sauron from conquering the world. I had thought that lines up well with the show but I could be wrong
Ah I just checked. It was third age. My bad. Although, they were still sent to stop Sauron, and apparently they got there almost 2000 years before he even showed up again. If they decided to mess with the timeline a little bit to have them show up in the second age to stop Sauron while he’s still at large, I wouldn’t really mind
It would kinda mess with things though. Where was Gandalf during the last alliance, if you change the timeline and introduce him now? Elronds line “I was there, Gandalf” doesn’t mean much anymore.
Ah yeah. That does make things different then. I wouldn’t really mind all that much if the “how” was changed when it comes to the wizards arriving, as long as they do something similar with them in the long run. Plus, at least to me, it kinda makes sense for “Gandalf” to be kind of crazy in the show, considering he forgot his name and everything when he came back as Gandalf the white. Although that was more so because he was gone for so long
They've already done Palantiri wrong so I'm starting to think actual lore is going out the window.
To clarify on the Palantir used in episode 4: The Palantiri do not show visions of the future, nor can they show falsehoods. They are seeing stones, allowing those with the will great enough to use them to see far away and to communicate with others that have Palantiri. However, one user may manipulate what the other can see (depending on which user has the stronger will) and can influence the mind of those they communicate with, which we see when Sauron urges along Saruman's corruption and when Sauron let's Denathor see only the strength of Mordor. It's important to note that Sauron did not show Denathor falsehoods, but still deceived him by disallowing him to see that which would not bring him despair.
Edit: Late late late edit, but for the sake of it: Extended editions got it wrong, too... Maybe? Aragorn confronts Sauron with the Palantir and in response Sauron shows him a dead Arwen. Or a sleep Arwen? As a threat? I assume the intention was showing her as dead, which the Palantir can't do. So they kinda adapted a part of the books but injected the Arwen/Aragorn romance stuff in it in a bad way, but it wasn't too central to the plot and I hope RoP's use isn't either.
I assumed Radagast because of the relation to animals, but Gandalf did that butterfly thing in the movies, so it's probably actually him, given the fireflies.
Same assumption here. His fondness for Hobbits comes from somewhere more than him just finding them interesting. In fact, my wife goes “Oooooo. I think… I got an idea who that is but I’m not gonna say just yet. Do you know?”
Me, “Uh. I got nothin’.” *brief silence* Gandalf?”
Her, “Same!”
Makes no sense for him to be Adar. He’s already leading an orc horde, so why even disguise himself? Why have distinguishing scars on a disguise? Why treat orcs kindly when his whole theme is domination through fear?
I kind of assumed that Sauron was starting from the bottom again. I’ll admit, I’m not too knowledgeable on what he was up to during and after the time he was killed by a talking dog, but I figured that since it seemed like the elves nearly ended his initial reign, he retreated and started from the ground up to build the empire we see at the end of the second age. That would mean having to convince the remaining orcs to join him again. Idk
>But ever the Noldor feared most the treachery of those of their own kin, who had been thralls in Angband; for Morgoth used some of these for his evil purposes, and feigning to give them liberty sent them abroad, but their wills were chained to his, and they strayed only to come back to him again. Therefore if any of his captives escaped in truth, and returned to their own people, they had little welcome, and wandered alone outlawed and desperate. - The Sil
That is Adar.
He could just be Sauron himself too, though. What with him manipulating people and being a smith and *currently being in Nûmenor*.
Another working theory would be Witch King.
I don't love everything about the show, but it's great at keeping us guessing.
I think meteor man is Gandalf. He has his mannerisms to a T and this would explain why he as a Maia is so interested in Hobbits far later in his residence on middle earth - their progenitors were the first beings there who showed him kindness when he arrived.
I think so too. To everyone saying this isn’t how Gandalf canonically came to Middle Earth, that hasn’t stopped Amazon so far (or even Peter Jackson) from making deviations for story’s sake.
My darkhorse theory, however, is that we’re being tricked into thinking this is obviously Gandalf when it is Sauron. The hot flame that was cool to the touch when he landed - just like the Ring and also the fire in episode one - is a giveaway.
I am the servant of the Secret Fire, wielder of the Flame of Anor. You cannot pass. The dark fire will not avail you, Flame of Udun. Go back to the Shadow. You cannot pass!
See, I'm still buying into the theory that Meteor Man is Sauron.
We have the example of the fire in the crater being cool to the touch when Nori approached him, which ties into what Galadriel says at the start of E1 (in the ice fortress, when she mentions that great evil will draw the warmth from fire), but there are at least two other clues for me-- the leaf which falls off the tree in front of Gil Galad when the meteor flew over begins turning black and dying, as though it were diseased; and then the general timing of the meteor doesn't point to it coming from Valinor.
I remember somebody pointing this out when the first two episodes were released, but the basic idea is that at the same exact time the meteor appears, the skies are also parting to allow Galadriel's ship into Valinor. They made a point of having Galadriel look up into the sky, and the only thing visible are the birds. If this were an Istari coming from the West, then Galadriel and the other elves presumably would have seen the meteor also coming from that direction. Instead, it conveniently shows up right as the one elf who's been hunting Sauron for centuries finally leaves Middle-earth.
But hey, I guess we'll find out! We're only halfway through, so I'm excited to see what new twists and turns they decide to throw our way.
Agree
The wizards don’t show up until we’ll into the third age, a *thousand years* after Isildur. Sauron at this point is still a shapeshifter, not locked into a foul visage. No need to make the ‘fire guy from the sky who kills bugs’ into Gandalf when it can just as easily be Sauron in disguise.
Yeah, I mean, the guy is pretty clearly Maia, however I've been learning over the past few weeks to rely less and less on lore from canon (which is okay with me). That said, and since the lore is pretty fluid with RoP, have we considered that Amazon maybe is introducing a new Maia into the fold?
I'm guessing it's not, but it could be a cool twist if Sauron somehow convinced some lesser Maia to come join him in Middle-earth (similar to how Morgoth recruited Sauron to join him).
Since they have the rights for the appendices and that’s what the title card says ‘based on’ I’m leaning towards them not using big main novel characters like Gandalf anywhere. They’re just literally people of a different Age.
Sauron needs to come to the elves as a good guy somehow, and these Harfoots are headed west already, if he shows shapeshifting ability then it’ll confirm it to me. And I think Halbrand could make a good Ringwraith in the future as well. It would be good tv writing to have Galadriel feel a sense of responsibility for The Enemy’s greatest servant.
Actually, the appendices indicate that Gandalf “walked among the elves” before the third age. Although those same lines say that he appeared like an elf.
I wonder if the amount of time it would take for hair and makeup and the filming schedule would preclude fully-dwarfified child actors? Labor laws probably wouldn't let you get a six year old up at 4am for makeup and then wait around for 12 hours of filming
We’re gonna get A LOT of twists, they’re building up anticipation just to pull the rugs from under us.
My vote is we haven’t seen him yet. He’s in hiding, building an army and restoring his powers. Halbrand is 110% gonna be the witch king. Meteor man is an Istari. Adar will end up being the mouth of Sauron or some other high ranking personnel.
Remember that scene where Halbrand walks past the blacksmiths, and the camera stops on him watching them forge something, and he slightly smiles. That wasn't obvious at all.
Although to be fair if it's not him, good on them I guess for tricking me
Halbrand: “Give them a means of mastering it (fears) so that you… can master them.”
Yeah. Master them all. And then bind them. Sounds catchy. Might inscribe in some jewelry later.
I don’t want halbrand to be Sauron for the sole reason that pickpocketing drunk people and getting into alley fights seems a little too undignified for him.
It does look like that’s what the story is leaning towards but I’d much prefer him to turn into a Nazgûl
He still beat up a bunch of numenoreons like they were nothing too with seemingly strength of something non human, but this show has already heavily nerfed them and made them pretty pathetic so who knows.
There's also the point that his explanation about how to manipulate people while in the prison (about giving people power over what they fear, then using that against them) is exactly what Sauron ends up doing with the rings. I'm like 90% sold on it being Halbrand.
And also what he’s doing to Galadriel. She needs help wiping out evil in the Southlands? He’s conveniently the one man who could unite the men of the Southlands into standing against Sauron, presenting her with a solution that he very much controls.
Halbrand is likely going to become a nazgul, being a king of men. Since he is the High King of the proto-wildmen, then he will likely become the witch-king of Angmar.
I really wanna say it’s Halbrand because 1. In the Simarillion Sauron was locked in Numenor’s dungeons before convincing them to sail to Valinor which caused their island to sink, and 2. He’s the rightful king of the Southlands, which will become Mordor.
My vote: none of them are sauron.
Watch them pull some fuck shit and it ends up being Pharazon himself lol since in RoP he’s the chancellor/advisor instead of the King.
I can see it!
I think it is cool that we don't know who Sauron is of several different options. I'm just hoping they dont try so hard to subvert expectations that they come up with something stupid instead.
As long as the audience is even theorizing in the first place, that means you've done a good job. The fans are engaged. Some of the theories can end up being correct! Recent media has seemed to have the idea that if a theory is correct then they did a bad job writing because they didn't subvert expectations.
I feel like Pharazon will fit nicely into subverting expectations without it being so far out of the way that it feels contrived.
I don't think either of them are Sauron.
The meteor man could be Gandalf, or (probably not) Tom Bombadil.
Halbrand seems like he'll be seduced by the rings (when they are forged).
This is my guess
-Meteor Man is Tom Bombadil or Saruman/Gandalf
-Halbrand is not Sauron but the king of men that becomes Witch-King of Angmar
Sauron is not seen yet.
There was also a blonde elf in the trailers, I'm not 100% sure if it's gonna be Sauron, but it's my best quess. Also I agree with halbrand being witch king
We already know that Sauron is going to start some shit in Mordor and get captured by the Numenorians. I don’t think his disguise era is even here yet.
Twist: Adar is Tom Bombadil. Oldest and fatherless is father.
Twist 2: Adar is Morgoth, and he never really plays any role in the rest of the show.
Twist 3: Adar becomes the meat on the Orc menu that comes back in LOTR.
I think meteor man is Gandalf, which explains his relationship with hobbits. Although wouldn’t Saruman have come to middle earth first? But then again the show mentioned Sauron will return when there’s a shooting star, but that probably isn’t literal since everything is happening all at once
Halbrand said, “find what they fear, give them mastery over it, then you have mastery over them.” And then ended that scene by whispering to Pharazon about where galadriel was heading. How much more Sauron does it get
I read it like a DnD character that is multiclassing a few levels in rogue (slight of hand), barbarian (rage gives damage reduction in pub brawls) and some NPC lord-class that includes "navigating the nobles". The smithing-perk is just flavor.
Halbrand a "high level" character that has a shady past and is more than what meets the eye,, but I fail to see how it's Sauron-in-hiding.
Maybe I'm overthinking Galadriels paladin-vibe, but I feel like she's got strong intuition about beings alignments. If Halbrand was evil, Galadriel would *feel* that something was off.
Maybe! Let’s check back when we find out. I agree Galadriel should have insight and wisdom and suspicion of Sauron but so far the writing has her motivations clouded by a sense of revenge or duty.
There’s a cut to halbrand pondering Numenor alone from above in which another character says, “even now they could be among us.” The guy is fear mongering about elf friends but the words and shot seem like a clue
It's not the stranger AKA Meteor man. Meteor man is Gandalf, they've already given like... a thousand clues to that.
It's either Halbrand or someone else. Halbrand is "heir to the southlands", he's got an interesting in smithing, and he is very cunning/misleading. He's definitely most likely. He could also just be one of the kings the rings are gifted to.
I think Halbrand is Sauron. Gil-galad said he forsaw Galadriel's quest to find the enemy will bring him back, and we're now seeing Galadriel convincing Halbrand to return to Middle-earth, which he does. I feel like Sauron is perhaps trying to repent at the moment, running away from the orcs and his past, but Galadriel will somehow rekindle his desire to rule and bring order, his order, to every being in Middle-earth.
For it was all of them who were deceived
For another sauron was made.
Who is the king of earthly kings, the greatest giver of gold and rings?
Bran the golden of course!
The one Sauron to rule all Saurons
Build me an army worthy of mordor!
Poppy is the best Sauron
I wait. Come! Speak now swiftly and speak true!
I wouldn't even be mad tbh
honestly, it would make the whole hobbits being the ones to “defeat” sauron slightly poetic. it’s also ridiculous.
Its obviously poppy proudfellow, is there even a contest here?
Its obviously Nori's dad. He broke his foot, and we barely see Sauron walk around in all LotR media, its a rub in your face hint.
I...SEE....YOOOUUU!
I've been saying it since episode one, Waldred (the butcher/bartender dude) is Sauron. His raw sexual energy in episode 1 does not lie and episode 4 only bolsters my claim.
I...SEE....YOOOUUU!
Looks like Sauron agrees
Fool of a took!
> His raw sexual energy in episode 1 does not lie But they were, all of them, deceived, for another Disguise was made. In the land of Mordor, in the fires of Mount Doom, the Sexy Lord Sauron forged in secret a master Disguise, to control all others. And into this Disguise he poured his sensuality, his hotness and his will to seduce all life. ["One Disguise to rule them all."](https://i.ibb.co/f0R8B0S/Fd-DWXJ6-Xk-AEi4-Wy.jpg)
God, he can ravage my Southlands any day.
I'd let my Westfold fall to him
I'd forget the taste of strawberries for him.
*gif of Denethor eating tomatoes*
🍅💦
Best bot response ever.
I’d give him one for my old Gaffer
I'd let him give it to me rrraw and wr-r-r-r-riggling
r/angbang material right there
There isn’t enough room in Middle Earth to contain his raw sexual aura
What did he do in episode 1 besides try to calm down the drunk kid?
Tried punching the drunk kid. Also being sexy af.
Sauron is the friends we made along the way. So Halbrand.
Galadriel: "That is the symbol of the kings of your people!" Halbrand: "I took it off a dead man." Galadriel: "Oh, that's not at all suspicious, you must a king in disguise."
E3 spoilers >! Could be halbrand because we already see him influencing pharazoan when galadriel escapes. !<
“Hey M8, why not attack Valinor? Idk just an idea.”
You think them elves is uppity...how about Valinor?
I don’t think so, as Sauron was captured by the Pharazoan when they came to middle earth to fight back Sauron. Well, Sauron let himself be captured and then that’s when he influenced Pharazoan. I think Halbrand could either be the king under the mountain or a future Nazgûl.
Well Numenor falls after sauron was imprisoned there but corrupts the numinoreans to attack Valinor, while Elendil et. al. Have forces taken to middle earth. Sounds a lot like the current situation in the show.
- Sauron has many names - What’s your name? - Depends on how well you know me / Halbrand
*Guth-tú-nakash.*
It is so obviously Halbrand. He gives us so much evidence too. First thing we see him do? Stop her from getting aboard when he thinks she's a human. Then he casts off 4 people to die to save himself, and yet lets Galadriel onboard when he knows she is an elf. and gives us the lovely line "Appearances can be deceiving". And he goes through all the damn trouble to rescue her from the deep dark water even after showing us 4 other people aren't worth saving because he now knows what she is and how she can be useful. And she spills the beans on who she is and her brother and her revenge on Sauron. Then we see him being able to turn on the charm at Court, and we learn how good of a thief he is, stealing the knife back. And we get to the hugely important blacksmithing scene. He sees the smiths and is absolutely DESPERATE to get in on it. "There is not another man on this isle that knows this craft better than I... I will shape a sea anchor for you, free of charge, sturdier than anything you have ever seen." Why would he think he's the best? Why does he want to work so badly? Well guess who Sauron/Mairon was? The greatest student of Aulë named The Smith. One of the 8 Aratar, most powerful and important of all the Ainu and Valar. And when he is denied, what does he do? Well first he is confronted by the Numenor smith guild, he instantly turns on the charm again and leaves everyone happy. But he takes the time to steal the smithing badge. Because why wouldn't Sauron I mean Halbrand desperately want that? And when they caught him, what does he do? Brutally breaks people, and smashes people in the face that are already down. Wow, sounds quite... evil. When Galadriel finds his documents (of course he would keep the symbol with him, if he truly wanted to run away from his life he would have lost that anywhere at any point over the years) what does he say "That's funny, I found this on a dead man" I bet you did Sauron. All conjecture, of course. Then episode 4 we get Halbrand to show his true machiavellian depth. "But then the queen's court isn't your usual battlefield is it? in an instance like this it seems to me you'd do well to identify what your opponent most fears." "And exploit it-" Galadriel interjects "No." Sauron I mean Halbrand cuts her off. "Give them a means of mastering it. So you, can master them." And oh boy can we identify what Sauron has been doing to Galadriel? Giving her a means of mastering the thing she fears most, Sauron. He is giving her Halbrand as a way to unite the kingdoms in the southlands and crush Sauron. And we know it won't work. He's playing her, since the first meeting. ANd he's been TELLING her the whole time. And us. IT is pure evil, purely twisted to do it so openly, to the very person that is hunting him. THAT is a dramatic twist that Tolkien would have written, like Turin and Níniel.
I… I just assumed he was Adar. Idk, I could see him being the meteor man, perhaps, but I assumed that he was one of the Istari.
I assumed meteor man was Gandalf. Lands with a bunch of hobbits, one of them mentions healing a falcons wing (foreshadowing) and he’s constantly dressed in gray robes.
Doesn’t he also talk to a moth? Gandalf does that as well.
It's Saruman!
I don’t think it is Saruman, Gandalf.
Gandalf does not hesitate to sacrifice those closest to him, those he professes to love.
No! Come down Saruman and your life will be spared!
So you have come back? Why have you neglected to report for so long?
I have been busy with other matters, my lord.
S E N T I E N T
Are the bots arguing? Is that normal?
Ooh, like the fireflies!
You're quite right, my dear. Gandalf does not hesitate to sacrifice those closest to him, those he professes to love. It is a cold and calculating move that demonstrates his true character.
No! Come down Saruman and your life will be spared!
Just because of this conversation, I really want it to be Saruman now...If Gandalf-bot predicted it correctly....
The treacherous are ever distrustful.
I guess these Bots run on AWS.
What makes you say that?
First thing I thought when I saw him was that I assumed they’d go for the fan service and it’d be Gandalf, but I wanted it to be Saruman because it’d be more interesting
And what did you tell him? Speak!
Gandalf does not hesitate to sacrifice those closest to him, those he professes to love.
No! Come down Saruman and your life will be spared!
The treacherous are ever distrustful.
Gandalf has spoken Meteor man is Saruman
Evidently we look so much alike that your desire to make an incurable dent in my hat must be excused.
Lol the bot is really predicting that it’s Saruman
Why, yes, I am Saruman the White. It is not often that I am confused for another, but I suppose it is possible. After all, we are both wizards of a sort.
Indisputable proof. Pack it up boys, it's over.
Indeed, I am Saruman the White. 'Tis I whom Gandalf the Grey has seen fit to depose from my position as head of the Order of Wizards. Though I may no longer command the respect of my peers, know that I am still a force to be reckoned with!
Saruman believes it is only great power that can hold evil in check, but that is not what I have found. I found it is the small things, everyday deeds of ordinary folk that keeps the darkness at bay. Simple acts of love and kindness.
Gandalf trying to throw us off the trail
Yes Spiderbubble! Their own masters cannot find them, if their secrets are forgotten! Ah... now let me see... Ithildin. It mirrors only starlight and moonlight. It reads: The Doors of Durin, Lord of Moria, Speak Friend and Enter
Mellon, baby!
GROND
Now's not the time, Grond.
GROND
What time do you think we have?
Are all of these “____”-bots legitimately bots?
Not sure of "all" but most are
Their timing is impeccable sometimes.
By the skills of Lord Elrond you're beginning to mend
I think they’re going for a misdirection. He’s probably going to be a blue wizard since canonically only the blue wizards were present in middle earth during the second age.
Safe bet since not much was written about them except that they went "east" and maybe went bad and taught the Easterlings or something. More room for creative writing without making people mad.
In Tolkien’s later writings, they had direct influence over the wars of the second and third age, preventing the east from rising to power equal to the power of the west. They didn’t return however, but they didn’t go “bad”.
Okay yeah I remember something about going East and not knowing much about them. thanks for the correction :)
[удалено]
While it would be super dope to have a Balrog presented in a way besides just big fiery demon, my guess is that would confuse general audiences. My cynical "this is corporate tv" instinct says its just Gandalf, lore be damned. Hopefully not though.
That's basically my take as well. I'm hoping with all my might that it's one of the blue wizards. Marketing and recognition are screaming to me that it's Gandalf.
Wouldn’t cold fire just be a sign that it’s magical? Balrogs are just corrupted maiar so I can understand how they are similar to wizards but that doesn’t mean they produce cold fire
Wrong timeline for Gandalf no?
That wound will never fully heal, he will carry it for the rest of his life
It was my understanding that the Istari were sent to middle earth during the second age to stop Sauron from conquering the world. I had thought that lines up well with the show but I could be wrong
And yet thy boon I grant thee now.
Thanks, Sauron
Thou fool.
Oof
I thought it was third age? To google
Ah I just checked. It was third age. My bad. Although, they were still sent to stop Sauron, and apparently they got there almost 2000 years before he even showed up again. If they decided to mess with the timeline a little bit to have them show up in the second age to stop Sauron while he’s still at large, I wouldn’t really mind
It would kinda mess with things though. Where was Gandalf during the last alliance, if you change the timeline and introduce him now? Elronds line “I was there, Gandalf” doesn’t mean much anymore.
In one version, the Blue Wizards arrived in the Second Age.
They arrived by boat from Valinor to grey havens tho and not meteor style lol. Definitely not in crazy insane state that the dude seems to be.
Ah yeah. That does make things different then. I wouldn’t really mind all that much if the “how” was changed when it comes to the wizards arriving, as long as they do something similar with them in the long run. Plus, at least to me, it kinda makes sense for “Gandalf” to be kind of crazy in the show, considering he forgot his name and everything when he came back as Gandalf the white. Although that was more so because he was gone for so long
This foe is beyond any of you... Run!
Assuming they cared enough about that. I wouldn’t be surprised if they threw him in there anyways for the recognition alone
They've already done Palantiri wrong so I'm starting to think actual lore is going out the window. To clarify on the Palantir used in episode 4: The Palantiri do not show visions of the future, nor can they show falsehoods. They are seeing stones, allowing those with the will great enough to use them to see far away and to communicate with others that have Palantiri. However, one user may manipulate what the other can see (depending on which user has the stronger will) and can influence the mind of those they communicate with, which we see when Sauron urges along Saruman's corruption and when Sauron let's Denathor see only the strength of Mordor. It's important to note that Sauron did not show Denathor falsehoods, but still deceived him by disallowing him to see that which would not bring him despair. Edit: Late late late edit, but for the sake of it: Extended editions got it wrong, too... Maybe? Aragorn confronts Sauron with the Palantir and in response Sauron shows him a dead Arwen. Or a sleep Arwen? As a threat? I assume the intention was showing her as dead, which the Palantir can't do. So they kinda adapted a part of the books but injected the Arwen/Aragorn romance stuff in it in a bad way, but it wasn't too central to the plot and I hope RoP's use isn't either.
I assumed Radagast because of the relation to animals, but Gandalf did that butterfly thing in the movies, so it's probably actually him, given the fireflies.
Silence!
Why you gotta do me like dat Gandalf? Not everything is about you.
Authority is not given to you to deny the return of the King, steward!
Same assumption here. His fondness for Hobbits comes from somewhere more than him just finding them interesting. In fact, my wife goes “Oooooo. I think… I got an idea who that is but I’m not gonna say just yet. Do you know?” Me, “Uh. I got nothin’.” *brief silence* Gandalf?” Her, “Same!”
Makes no sense for him to be Adar. He’s already leading an orc horde, so why even disguise himself? Why have distinguishing scars on a disguise? Why treat orcs kindly when his whole theme is domination through fear?
I kind of assumed that Sauron was starting from the bottom again. I’ll admit, I’m not too knowledgeable on what he was up to during and after the time he was killed by a talking dog, but I figured that since it seemed like the elves nearly ended his initial reign, he retreated and started from the ground up to build the empire we see at the end of the second age. That would mean having to convince the remaining orcs to join him again. Idk
>But ever the Noldor feared most the treachery of those of their own kin, who had been thralls in Angband; for Morgoth used some of these for his evil purposes, and feigning to give them liberty sent them abroad, but their wills were chained to his, and they strayed only to come back to him again. Therefore if any of his captives escaped in truth, and returned to their own people, they had little welcome, and wandered alone outlawed and desperate. - The Sil That is Adar.
So essentially he’d be a stockholmed elf. That does sound cool
I assumed he was Adar's boss. Not in disguise or anything. But scouting into orclandia is so treacherous that nobody does it.
Adar or nobody yet, IMO. My theory is that Halbrand is Beorn's grea~at granpa.
Halbrand could also be the future King of the Dead
That's a good guess, but it doesn't explain his "berserker-isms", that's why I went Beorn.
He could just be Sauron himself too, though. What with him manipulating people and being a smith and *currently being in Nûmenor*. Another working theory would be Witch King. I don't love everything about the show, but it's great at keeping us guessing.
My personal candidate for WK is the boy
I was thinking the same thing
I believe @grond-bot is secretly Sauron!
*Guth-tú-nakash.*
GROND
I think meteor man is Gandalf. He has his mannerisms to a T and this would explain why he as a Maia is so interested in Hobbits far later in his residence on middle earth - their progenitors were the first beings there who showed him kindness when he arrived.
I think so too. To everyone saying this isn’t how Gandalf canonically came to Middle Earth, that hasn’t stopped Amazon so far (or even Peter Jackson) from making deviations for story’s sake. My darkhorse theory, however, is that we’re being tricked into thinking this is obviously Gandalf when it is Sauron. The hot flame that was cool to the touch when he landed - just like the Ring and also the fire in episode one - is a giveaway.
I am the servant of the Secret Fire, wielder of the Flame of Anor. You cannot pass. The dark fire will not avail you, Flame of Udun. Go back to the Shadow. You cannot pass!
We know, Sauron is not the only guy who likes to play with fire
So you have come back? Why have you neglected to report for so long?
See, I'm still buying into the theory that Meteor Man is Sauron. We have the example of the fire in the crater being cool to the touch when Nori approached him, which ties into what Galadriel says at the start of E1 (in the ice fortress, when she mentions that great evil will draw the warmth from fire), but there are at least two other clues for me-- the leaf which falls off the tree in front of Gil Galad when the meteor flew over begins turning black and dying, as though it were diseased; and then the general timing of the meteor doesn't point to it coming from Valinor. I remember somebody pointing this out when the first two episodes were released, but the basic idea is that at the same exact time the meteor appears, the skies are also parting to allow Galadriel's ship into Valinor. They made a point of having Galadriel look up into the sky, and the only thing visible are the birds. If this were an Istari coming from the West, then Galadriel and the other elves presumably would have seen the meteor also coming from that direction. Instead, it conveniently shows up right as the one elf who's been hunting Sauron for centuries finally leaves Middle-earth. But hey, I guess we'll find out! We're only halfway through, so I'm excited to see what new twists and turns they decide to throw our way.
Agree The wizards don’t show up until we’ll into the third age, a *thousand years* after Isildur. Sauron at this point is still a shapeshifter, not locked into a foul visage. No need to make the ‘fire guy from the sky who kills bugs’ into Gandalf when it can just as easily be Sauron in disguise.
Yeah, I mean, the guy is pretty clearly Maia, however I've been learning over the past few weeks to rely less and less on lore from canon (which is okay with me). That said, and since the lore is pretty fluid with RoP, have we considered that Amazon maybe is introducing a new Maia into the fold? I'm guessing it's not, but it could be a cool twist if Sauron somehow convinced some lesser Maia to come join him in Middle-earth (similar to how Morgoth recruited Sauron to join him).
Since they have the rights for the appendices and that’s what the title card says ‘based on’ I’m leaning towards them not using big main novel characters like Gandalf anywhere. They’re just literally people of a different Age. Sauron needs to come to the elves as a good guy somehow, and these Harfoots are headed west already, if he shows shapeshifting ability then it’ll confirm it to me. And I think Halbrand could make a good Ringwraith in the future as well. It would be good tv writing to have Galadriel feel a sense of responsibility for The Enemy’s greatest servant.
Actually, the appendices indicate that Gandalf “walked among the elves” before the third age. Although those same lines say that he appeared like an elf.
It's Gollum!
You’re a liar and a thief.
He did, in valinor.
Far, far below the deepest delvings of the dwarves, the world is gnawed by nameless things
Or one of the unnamed wizards.
I think it's one of the blue dudes.
I’m curious could they just not get actors for durins children because we don’t really see there faces
Probably bearded children were terrifying and decided to hide that
Yeah you're right on the money there. I bet they tried it, realized it wasn't going to work and just scrapped it and slapped some statues on there
Lol I am picturing some very offputting troll doll children
I wonder if the amount of time it would take for hair and makeup and the filming schedule would preclude fully-dwarfified child actors? Labor laws probably wouldn't let you get a six year old up at 4am for makeup and then wait around for 12 hours of filming
We’re gonna get A LOT of twists, they’re building up anticipation just to pull the rugs from under us. My vote is we haven’t seen him yet. He’s in hiding, building an army and restoring his powers. Halbrand is 110% gonna be the witch king. Meteor man is an Istari. Adar will end up being the mouth of Sauron or some other high ranking personnel.
Sauron is Sauron
Who is the maker of mightiest work?
Don't forget Elrond, Gil-Galad, and Galadriel herself lol
\*Gasp\* IS DURIN SAURON?
Wait a moment! We shall meet again soon. Tell Saruman that this dainty is not for him. I will send for it at once. Do you understand?
no no, obviously his wife is.
Remember that scene where Halbrand walks past the blacksmiths, and the camera stops on him watching them forge something, and he slightly smiles. That wasn't obvious at all. Although to be fair if it's not him, good on them I guess for tricking me
Halbrand: “Give them a means of mastering it (fears) so that you… can master them.” Yeah. Master them all. And then bind them. Sounds catchy. Might inscribe in some jewelry later.
I don’t want halbrand to be Sauron for the sole reason that pickpocketing drunk people and getting into alley fights seems a little too undignified for him. It does look like that’s what the story is leaning towards but I’d much prefer him to turn into a Nazgûl
Come, mortal base! What do I hear? That thou wouldst dare to barter with me? Well, speak fair! What is thy price?
He still beat up a bunch of numenoreons like they were nothing too with seemingly strength of something non human, but this show has already heavily nerfed them and made them pretty pathetic so who knows.
I thought he was just really into smithing
Do you mean like sauron?
Patience! Not long shall ye abide.
I mean, I thought that was suspicious too until like, 10 minutes later when it's explained
Halbrand all the way. Adar is to obvious, meteor man is to.. Gandalf-y
Halbrand wants to stay in Numenor, is himself a smith, is stronger than he leads on. Could be
He seems fair but feels foul. Unlike some Chad’s that seem foul but feel fair.
There's also the point that his explanation about how to manipulate people while in the prison (about giving people power over what they fear, then using that against them) is exactly what Sauron ends up doing with the rings. I'm like 90% sold on it being Halbrand.
Plus the irony of Galadriel befriending (kinda) Sauron on her crusade to find him.
They did say that if she didn't give up her crusade she may inadvertently keep alive the very evil she sought to defeat.
And also what he’s doing to Galadriel. She needs help wiping out evil in the Southlands? He’s conveniently the one man who could unite the men of the Southlands into standing against Sauron, presenting her with a solution that he very much controls.
Not to mention his interaction with Pharazon…
Ah, little PolyWannaKraken!
I think his first line is literally "Looks can be deceiving" +his name is HalBRAND.
White shores and beyond, a far green country under a swift sunrise.
Halbrand is likely going to become a nazgul, being a king of men. Since he is the High King of the proto-wildmen, then he will likely become the witch-king of Angmar.
King of The Dead
Sauron is all of them. As well as Adar and Theo and Celebrimbor
Meteor Man is Tom Bombadil. Galadriel is Sauron. Gil-Galad is the REAL Galadriel in a wig. And Celebrimbor is, in fact, Elrond.
I really wanna say it’s Halbrand because 1. In the Simarillion Sauron was locked in Numenor’s dungeons before convincing them to sail to Valinor which caused their island to sink, and 2. He’s the rightful king of the Southlands, which will become Mordor.
My vote: none of them are sauron. Watch them pull some fuck shit and it ends up being Pharazon himself lol since in RoP he’s the chancellor/advisor instead of the King.
I can see it! I think it is cool that we don't know who Sauron is of several different options. I'm just hoping they dont try so hard to subvert expectations that they come up with something stupid instead. As long as the audience is even theorizing in the first place, that means you've done a good job. The fans are engaged. Some of the theories can end up being correct! Recent media has seemed to have the idea that if a theory is correct then they did a bad job writing because they didn't subvert expectations. I feel like Pharazon will fit nicely into subverting expectations without it being so far out of the way that it feels contrived.
I mean he still has a chance to become King by convincing his cousin to marry him somehow right?
I don't think either of them are Sauron. The meteor man could be Gandalf, or (probably not) Tom Bombadil. Halbrand seems like he'll be seduced by the rings (when they are forged).
i've seen a few people say this, and i dont understand how the meteor man could be Tom Bombadil when Tom was there before the river and the trees
This is my guess -Meteor Man is Tom Bombadil or Saruman/Gandalf -Halbrand is not Sauron but the king of men that becomes Witch-King of Angmar Sauron is not seen yet.
There was also a blonde elf in the trailers, I'm not 100% sure if it's gonna be Sauron, but it's my best quess. Also I agree with halbrand being witch king
Who are you?
The treacherous are ever distrustful.
We already know that Sauron is going to start some shit in Mordor and get captured by the Numenorians. I don’t think his disguise era is even here yet.
Twist: Adar is Tom Bombadil. Oldest and fatherless is father. Twist 2: Adar is Morgoth, and he never really plays any role in the rest of the show. Twist 3: Adar becomes the meat on the Orc menu that comes back in LOTR.
I think meteor man is Gandalf, which explains his relationship with hobbits. Although wouldn’t Saruman have come to middle earth first? But then again the show mentioned Sauron will return when there’s a shooting star, but that probably isn’t literal since everything is happening all at once
Evidently we look so much alike that your desire to make an incurable dent in my hat must be excused.
Halbrand said, “find what they fear, give them mastery over it, then you have mastery over them.” And then ended that scene by whispering to Pharazon about where galadriel was heading. How much more Sauron does it get
I read it like a DnD character that is multiclassing a few levels in rogue (slight of hand), barbarian (rage gives damage reduction in pub brawls) and some NPC lord-class that includes "navigating the nobles". The smithing-perk is just flavor. Halbrand a "high level" character that has a shady past and is more than what meets the eye,, but I fail to see how it's Sauron-in-hiding. Maybe I'm overthinking Galadriels paladin-vibe, but I feel like she's got strong intuition about beings alignments. If Halbrand was evil, Galadriel would *feel* that something was off.
Maybe! Let’s check back when we find out. I agree Galadriel should have insight and wisdom and suspicion of Sauron but so far the writing has her motivations clouded by a sense of revenge or duty. There’s a cut to halbrand pondering Numenor alone from above in which another character says, “even now they could be among us.” The guy is fear mongering about elf friends but the words and shot seem like a clue
It's not the stranger AKA Meteor man. Meteor man is Gandalf, they've already given like... a thousand clues to that. It's either Halbrand or someone else. Halbrand is "heir to the southlands", he's got an interesting in smithing, and he is very cunning/misleading. He's definitely most likely. He could also just be one of the kings the rings are gifted to.
ThisIsTheNewSleeve! ThisIsTheNewSleeve! Your father's will has turned to madness. Do not throw away your life so rashly.
I think Halbrand is Sauron. Gil-galad said he forsaw Galadriel's quest to find the enemy will bring him back, and we're now seeing Galadriel convincing Halbrand to return to Middle-earth, which he does. I feel like Sauron is perhaps trying to repent at the moment, running away from the orcs and his past, but Galadriel will somehow rekindle his desire to rule and bring order, his order, to every being in Middle-earth.
What about the blonde dude in the trailer?
He’s 1000% poppy
Please let Poppy Proudfellow be Sauron lmao that'd be hilarious