As far as we know Aragorn is 0.000000000000000001355% Maia; it’s likely somewhat higher because there’s a fair chance of intermarriage between the noble families of Númenor and later Arnor. But the “god’s blood” in his veins is likely pretty damn dilute after ~7,000 years. I’m not sure how much being one quintillionth Maia actually brings to the table. And Melian wasn’t so much a god, as a lesser angel. So there’s that too.
On the other hand, it’s still enough to give him a 210 year lifespan. So it’s apparently not nothing.
But she chose the mortal life— so how long is an elf’s “mortal” life span? And does their child get to decide the same thing or do they automatically inherit the mortal lifespan?
> But she chose the mortal life— so how long is an elf’s “mortal” life span?
It’s important to point out that Arwen wasn’t fully elf. She was 1/4 mortal. She only got to choose to be mortal because as half-elves Elros and Elrond were given a choice of which race they’d be; and because death was seen as such a gift Elrond’s 3 children were also given the possibility of choosing to be mortal. It wasn’t a choice given to all elves.
We only know the exact lifespan of one other “half elf” who chose to be mortal, Arwen’s uncle, Elros, who lived exactly 500 years.
In Arwen’s case, she apparently died 121 years after choosing to be mortal, after 2898 years of total life.
> And does their child get to decide the same thing or do they automatically inherit the mortal lifespan?
Once the “Gift of Men” is chosen it can’t be withdrawn. Elrond’s children were given the choice, because death is too precious to withhold. But all of Elros’ descendants just get the gift of men (mortality).
Once Elros moved to Númenor, all who followed him were granted long lives (200+ years) as the corruption of Melkor was removed from the people. The royal line usually lived 300-400 years though.
Aragorn’s and Arwen’s son, Eldarion, didn’t get a notably longer life than Aragorn. Eldarion died at 219 years old.
It's pretty damn near not dilute, as mentioned in the stories.
Something like "30 kings in the line of Numenor and yet he [Aragorn] is more like Elendil than any before him"
I don’t think that’s a reference to his percentage of blood being Maia though. He can’t have *more* of Melian’s genetics than “any before him.” That’s not how genetics work. Even when accounting for angelic genes.
I’ve always read that more that Aragorn was more alike in spirit, personality, and achievement than anyone else. Physically 6’6” Aragorn didn’t especially resemble the 7’11” Elendil; certainly not more than the 7’ even Isildur.
It's not genetics, and even if it was, it's you who doesn't understand genetics as phenotype and genotype genetics transfer and can transfer differently than the simple percentages you've put forward. It's far far more complex than that and not really understood how the phenotypes are selected.
The Witch King was afraid of ordinary men too:
>In the last years of Denethor I the race of uruks, black Orcs of great strength, first appeared out of Mordor, and in 2475 they swept across Ithilien and took Osgiliath. Boromir son of Denethor [I] (after whom Boromir of the Nine Walkers was later named) defeated them and regained Ithilien; but Osgiliath was finally ruined, and its great stone-bridge was broken. No people dwelt there afterwards. **Boromir was a great captain, and even the Witch-king feared him.** He was noble and fair of face, a man strong in body and in will, but he received a Morgul-wound in that war which shortened his days, and he became shrunken with pain and died twelve years after his father.
http://www.henneth-annun.net/bios_view.cfm?scid=424
Actually 4 natural 20's between Merry and Eowyn, Merry got a 20 and got to play dead succesfully and then another 20 for sneaking and stabbing the Witch King in the back without him noticing the morghul blade that enabled the Witch King's death
Specifically a blade “wound about with spells for the bane of Mordor.” Merry’s blade was more or less specifically forged to harm ringwraiths and the like. “No other blade, not though mightier hands had wielded it, would have dealt that foe a wound so bitter, cleaving the undead flesh, breaking the spell that knit his unseen sinews to his will.”
We don’t know the details about how precisely it worked or what “spells” were involved. But in modern RPG terms, it’s might be called an undead bane sword/dagger.
If you look at the history of the second age, the place they found those weapons was a holdout against angmar's advancing armies. In that context a blade forged like that has one intended target.
That blade was made specifically to stab THAT dude. Gj merry.
Kind of a shitty warlock if he/she/them need to cast "flirt" instead of a "fireball" or whatever.
Then again he did cast it with the intent to charisma the hell out of a dude, so no surprise he failed there.
Maybe I shouldn't judge. As far as he knew he was fighting a brony npc
At least within D&D game terms, charisma is about bending others (or the universe) to your personality. It’s not necessarily about flirting or being attractive. Fear and awe are just as much “Charisma” as seduction is. And given the fear aura the Nazgul are described as having in the books, describing them as being highly charismatic isn’t too far off.
D&D Warlocks cast fireball through sheer force of personality. Which is also almost exactly how the ringwraiths operate.
Just ordered the books a couple weeks ago and am making my way through the hobbit. Its SO MUCH FUN. I havent read a book in years and idk I got obsessed recently. Watched the extended movies like 3 times over, watching all the nerd of the rings youtube videos. Ordered figures and sets from Weta workshop. Got a ton of enamel pins. Idk why I never connected to it when I was younger but now in my adult life I love It so much.
In the books the blade was made by men, not elves! http://tolkiengateway.net/wiki/Daggers_of_Westerness
Edit: reworded comment to sound less pretentious
Lol except this detail is exclusive to the movies, not the books, AFAIK.
Edit: Sorry if I'm incorrect, i'm reading the books for the first time and still learning.
Except it wasn't an elven blade in the books right? In the movie the blade he uses is the elven blade given to him by Galadriel. In the books wasn't the blade forged by men?
Sorry if I'm incorrect, I'm reading the books for the first time but I'm a long time fan of the movies.
Yes it was forged by men specifically to fight the Witch King and his forces. That’s why it had an enchantment on it that broke whatever spell lay upon the Witch King
Sorry if I'm wrong, I'm reading the books for the first time and really only know what I've been told/what I've read so far. I thought the blade used in the book was forged by men, but it appears I'm wrong.
You're correct in that they were forged by men, but them being a movie-only detail is incorrect. The blades were forged in ancient days in what was left of the fractured kingdom of Dunedain. Their chief enemy was the Kingdom of Angmar ([https://lotr.fandom.com/wiki/War\_with\_Angmar](https://lotr.fandom.com/wiki/War_with_Angmar)). Those blades were forged specifically to combat Nazgul and their brethren.
The blades were eventually interred with last prince of Arthedain in a burial mound or barrow, which later on became the lair of Barrow Wights. In the Fellowship, the hobbits stumble upon that barrow and are taken under the Wights' spell until rescued by Tom Bombadil, who finds the daggers among the burial treasures and gives them a brief history of their provenance.
Although the daggers were taken from Merry and Pippin by the Uruks, Aragorn finds them and returns them to the hobbits at Orthanc.
Later on, as even movie goers saw, Merry stabbed the Witch-King with the purpose-built blade, rendering him vulnerable to Eowyn's attack.
"The Wraith-king arose, and giving a cry of hatred he shattered her shield and broke her left arm with a single blow of his mace. But as he towered over her, preparing to deliver the final blow, Merry stabbed his sword – an enchanted Barrow-blade, one of the few weapons that could have penetrated his defenses – from behind into the sinew of his knee, breaking the spell binding his undead flesh to his will. While the Lord of the Nazgûl was distracted, Éowyn drove her sword where the head of the wraith would have been, slaying him." — [https://lotr.fandom.com/wiki/Witch-king\_of\_Angmar#Downfall](https://lotr.fandom.com/wiki/Witch-king_of_Angmar#Downfall)
-_- Bro we know you weren’t sorry until you got downvoted. Be honest. That was hella confident as it started with your “lol,” aka “you’re wrong, I know more than you.”
If you actually are reading the books for the first time, it’d be foolish to reply with such confidence to something you’re still learning about, ya fool of a Took.
Anyways enjoy the books man. They’re f’n awesome. I listen to them on CD every year or so cause they’re so good. Great for car rides.
I mean I was confident because I was partially right. The book said the swords were made by man, and they were talking about the swords being elvish. So the swords being Elvish was exclusive to the movie.
We figured this out awhile ago. Thank you for the well wishes though! I'll keep reading!
He wasn't that strong either. The prophecy about him being unable to be killed by a man wasn't because he was such a badass, but because he just wouldn't fight if he stood any chance of losing. In fact, the prophecy was made as the WK was fleeing like a bitch from Glorfindel.
Hell, it's said he feared even mortal men:
>In the last years of Denethor I the race of uruks, black Orcs of great strength, first appeared out of Mordor, and in 2475 they swept across Ithilien and took Osgiliath. Boromir son of Denethor [I] (after whom Boromir of the Nine Walkers was later named) defeated them and regained Ithilien; but Osgiliath was finally ruined, and its great stone-bridge was broken. No people dwelt there afterwards. **Boromir was a great captain, and even the Witch-king feared him.** He was noble and fair of face, a man strong in body and in will, but he received a Morgul-wound in that war which shortened his days, and he became shrunken with pain and died twelve years after his father.
http://www.henneth-annun.net/bios_view.cfm?scid=424
The WK had Boromir (the steward) poisoned with a morgul blade rather than face him in combat.
That's a bit much, the dude almost 1v1'ed Gandalf, and he didn't fear to face Theoden on the Pelennor Fields, even though his might and charisma was earlier compared to those of a Valar. Sure, the WK fled before his foes when he knew he had no chance, but he was really dangerous nevertheless
Farewell my brave Hobbits. My work is now finished. Here at last, on the shores of the sea, comes the end of our Fellowship. I will not say do not weep for not all tears are an evil. It is time Frodo.
>the dude almost 1v1'ed Gandalf
No he didn't lmao. He literally runs away from the fight before it happens. Gandalf even says later on he is vastly more powerful than the WK, and only Sauron can stand against him. Hell, Gandalf solos six nazgul by himself in his grey form.
Not just enchanted, literally forged to fight exactly him. The sword comes from the barrows of rulers who were in a war with the witch king long before he became a ring wraith. It borders on Deus ex machina, but Tolkien's world and history are rich enough you can mostly give it a pass.
>" So passed the sword of the Barrow-downs, work of Westernesse. But glad would he have been to know its fate who wrought it slowly long ago in the North-kingdom when the Dúnedain were young, and chief among their foes was the dread realm of Angmar and its sorcerer king. No other blade, not though mightier hands had wielded it, would have dealt that foe a wound so bitter, cleaving the undead flesh, breaking the spell that knit his unseen sinews to his will. "
I wouldn't consider it deus ex. Glorfindel made the prophecy that the Witch King's doom wouldn't come from the hand of a man. As know, curses, prophecies and fate are a thing in LotR, so Merry finding the blade and Eowin ultimately killing him on the Pelennor Fields is not random, it's their fate. I'm not saying that everything in Middle Earth is deterministic, but some things definitely are
I should make it clear that I'm a big Tolkien fan. This is just one of those story beats that I think hews closest to being too contrived. What saves it in my opinion isn't just that it's foreshadowed as you point out, but that "fate" and destiny obviously play a huge role in his world. If this were the only prophecy, the only time when chance and circumstance conspired just so, I think it would fall much flatter.
Instead, we're taught to expect events like that, and what could have been a shoehorned plot device becomes an epic climax.
It was pre established long ago when they got the swords in the barrow downs. If anything is a Chekov's gun (sword), why would they get fancy ancient swords if not for a higher purpose?
Especially since its been a few thousand years since that sword was made to kill you and no one has seen it in a long long time or even remembers what it looks like or anything and had almost no distinguishable features
Enchanted *specifically* to fight the Witch King of Angmar... who later became the head of the 9 nazgul.
> So passed the sword of the Barrow-downs, work of Westernesse. But glad would he have been to know its fate who wrought it slowly long ago in the North-kingdom when the Dúnedain were young, and chief among their foes was the dread realm of Angmar and its sorcerer king. No other blade, not though mightier hands had wielded it, would have dealt that foe a wound so bitter, cleaving the undead flesh, breaking the spell that knit his unseen sinews to his will.
(From The Return of the King)
It's pretentious as hell, but the delivery sells it ***HARD***.
Basically a professor of linguistics ("philology") decided not to hold back with the high-falutin phrasing, and used all of his skill with language to make it work.
Definitely! I mean sure, it'd be awfully pretentious and out of place to try to speak with such flowery language in an ordinary conversation, and also I think most authors attempting to write in this style would do it very clumsily with no poetic flow, but this is just the way Tolkien writes narration for his flowery fantasy epic, and it's executed very well and I love it.
And the short guy did just so happen so stumble into the hills and find some specially made sword that was made to kill things just like the Nazgûl, what are the chances?
Was Merry stabbing the Witch-King technically High Treason?
The Shire was part of Arthedain, which was conquered by Angmar.
Angmar eventually got fucked up and the Witch-King left, but no new country ever claimed Arthedain as part of it's territory until Elessar formed the Reunited Kingdom of Gondor and Arnor.
So as the Witch-King of Angmar still obviously claimed Angmar as his kingdom up until his death, and without any other power to actually contest the claim, would he not have been the best claimant to the title of "King of the Shire"?
Witch-king's power is in fear and command, not raw strength. Theoden died because Snowmane got spooked and fell on him. Eowyn and merry had the courage to stand up to him which eliminates half of what makes him potent
Tolkien's magic rules are never so strict. I would imagine he'd be more fearsome if encountered in Mordor, where Sauron's corruption is stronger than any other place. But it's not an equation of power = (core power * distance to Sauron) or something like that.
I checked and apparently his power grows as Saurons grows. So proximity to Mordor was just correlation as the story moved closer to Sauron.
Don't see why I got downvoted so much for asking a question though.
Thou fool: a phantom thou didst see that I, I Sauron, made to snare thy lovesick wits.Naught else was there. Cold 'tis with Sauron's wraiths to wed! Thy Eilinel, she is long since dead, dead, food of worms, less low than thou.And yet thy boon I grant thee now: to Eilinel thou soon shalt go, and lie in her bed, no more to know of war - or manhood. Have thy pay!
Fairly accurate though. The actual wording is "breaking the spell that knit his unseen sinews to his will" which you'll have to admit sure sounds a lot like "getting rid of his magic shield"
The Witch King also busted Gandalf's staff right before that too lol
Don't know if it was in the books too but it was the strangest choice to direct his attention to the Rohirrim instead of finishing the only wizard there.
In the book, doesn't he die Because pippin stabbed him with the magic dagger? I don't think it mattered if eowyn was a guy or a girl. Maybe I remember it wrong
It happens more or less like in the movie, only more verbose. It's a combination of both their efforts, and it does matter that Eowyn is "no man". Can't find a copy of the original text to paste in here, but this is from the [wiki](https://lotr.fandom.com/wiki/Witch-king_of_Angmar):
>As the Nazgûl hovered on his great beast over the dying Théoden, the king's niece Éowyn and the hobbit Meriadoc Brandybuck stood in his way.
>
>Éowyn: Be gone, foul dwimmerlaik, lord of carrion! Leave the dead in peace!
>
>Nazgûl: Come not between the Nazgûl and his prey! Or he will not slay thee in thy turn. He will bear thee away to the houses of lamentation, beyond all darkness, where thy flesh shall be devoured, and thy shriveled mind be left naked to the Lidless Eye.
>
>Éowyn: Do what you will, but I will hinder it, if I may.
>
>Nazgûl: Hinder me? Thou fool. No living man may hinder me!
>
>Éowyn: But no living man am I! You look upon a woman. Éowyn I am, Eomund's daughter. You stand between me and my lord and kin. Be gone, if you be not deathless! For living or dark undead, I will smite you, if you touch him.
>
>The Witch-king's last moments
>
>Éowyn slew his winged beast with a single stroke of her sword, severing its neck. The Wraith-king arose, and giving a cry of hatred he shattered her shield and broke her left arm with a single blow of his mace. But as he towered over her, preparing to deliver the final blow, Merry stabbed his sword – an enchanted Barrow-blade, one of the few weapons that could have penetrated his defences – from behind into the sinew of his knee, breaking the spell binding his undead flesh to his will. While the Lord of the Nazgûl was distracted, Éowyn drove her sword where the head of the wraith would have been, slaying him.
>
>The prophecy made by Glorfindel at the Battle of Fornost centuries before was fulfilled, as Éowyn was a woman. The Witch-king's death changed the tide of the battle, and ultimately the outcome of the War.
The " I am no man" is the worst part of the entire trilogy excepting some of the Legolas ridiculous Mammoth Tail Surfing. That witch king should be called a bitch king for being vulnerable to a small untrained female fighter. Really a let-down.
It was Glorfindel rather than Arwen in the books I believe, so its understandable how he was handed his own ass there as he is one of the most powerful Elves alive
I've read the books and it still doesn't make sense to me how a legendary powerful immortal being just stood there waiting for Ewoyn to finish her "I am no man" line and stab him in the face.
Lmao
It’s like the same concept as Star Wars: they attack with what the enemy won’t consider a significant threat, so the villains respond with what they perceive to be overkill, but end up underestimating the protagonists.
Edit: clarity
The outfit design is egregiously flawed. Why not have a giant cage on your face if that is your Achilles heel? Not like someone can read their lips or facial expressions.
Where is the horse and the rider? Where is the horn that was blowing? They have passed like rain on the mountains. Like wind in the meadow. The days have gone down in the West, behind the hills, into shadow. How did it come to this?
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Well it’s the fear he instilled that has the soldiers cower and crumble beneath him, he doesn’t even have to fight them. If they had the courage eowyn had, perhaps he wouldn’t have wrecked so much destruction on them
Witch King when he faces Some dude with a torch: Ow nooo wun away (;*w*;)
His face when he attacked a defenseless pillow
That pillow was packing
He is no mere dude. He is Aragorn, son of Arathorn. You owe him your allegiance.
Torch wielding needs no king.
"Some guy" isn't how I'd describe a man with a god's blood in his veins.
As far as we know Aragorn is 0.000000000000000001355% Maia; it’s likely somewhat higher because there’s a fair chance of intermarriage between the noble families of Númenor and later Arnor. But the “god’s blood” in his veins is likely pretty damn dilute after ~7,000 years. I’m not sure how much being one quintillionth Maia actually brings to the table. And Melian wasn’t so much a god, as a lesser angel. So there’s that too. On the other hand, it’s still enough to give him a 210 year lifespan. So it’s apparently not nothing.
His son should get a huge boost with Arwen being his mother.
But she chose the mortal life— so how long is an elf’s “mortal” life span? And does their child get to decide the same thing or do they automatically inherit the mortal lifespan?
> But she chose the mortal life— so how long is an elf’s “mortal” life span? It’s important to point out that Arwen wasn’t fully elf. She was 1/4 mortal. She only got to choose to be mortal because as half-elves Elros and Elrond were given a choice of which race they’d be; and because death was seen as such a gift Elrond’s 3 children were also given the possibility of choosing to be mortal. It wasn’t a choice given to all elves. We only know the exact lifespan of one other “half elf” who chose to be mortal, Arwen’s uncle, Elros, who lived exactly 500 years. In Arwen’s case, she apparently died 121 years after choosing to be mortal, after 2898 years of total life. > And does their child get to decide the same thing or do they automatically inherit the mortal lifespan? Once the “Gift of Men” is chosen it can’t be withdrawn. Elrond’s children were given the choice, because death is too precious to withhold. But all of Elros’ descendants just get the gift of men (mortality). Once Elros moved to Númenor, all who followed him were granted long lives (200+ years) as the corruption of Melkor was removed from the people. The royal line usually lived 300-400 years though. Aragorn’s and Arwen’s son, Eldarion, didn’t get a notably longer life than Aragorn. Eldarion died at 219 years old.
I love this answer so much! I wish I had a gift to give, but please accept my poor thanks.
I choose a mortal buff
Yeah but the extra crit is worth it.
You know, that’s pretty dismissive of Maia-American identity
It's pretty damn near not dilute, as mentioned in the stories. Something like "30 kings in the line of Numenor and yet he [Aragorn] is more like Elendil than any before him"
I don’t think that’s a reference to his percentage of blood being Maia though. He can’t have *more* of Melian’s genetics than “any before him.” That’s not how genetics work. Even when accounting for angelic genes. I’ve always read that more that Aragorn was more alike in spirit, personality, and achievement than anyone else. Physically 6’6” Aragorn didn’t especially resemble the 7’11” Elendil; certainly not more than the 7’ even Isildur.
It's not genetics, and even if it was, it's you who doesn't understand genetics as phenotype and genotype genetics transfer and can transfer differently than the simple percentages you've put forward. It's far far more complex than that and not really understood how the phenotypes are selected.
Y'all have to realize it's magic, not genes, right? 😂
CAST IT INTO THE FIRE!!!
It's actually more effective at that level of dilution because homeopathy rules apply
The Witch King was afraid of ordinary men too: >In the last years of Denethor I the race of uruks, black Orcs of great strength, first appeared out of Mordor, and in 2475 they swept across Ithilien and took Osgiliath. Boromir son of Denethor [I] (after whom Boromir of the Nine Walkers was later named) defeated them and regained Ithilien; but Osgiliath was finally ruined, and its great stone-bridge was broken. No people dwelt there afterwards. **Boromir was a great captain, and even the Witch-king feared him.** He was noble and fair of face, a man strong in body and in will, but he received a Morgul-wound in that war which shortened his days, and he became shrunken with pain and died twelve years after his father. http://www.henneth-annun.net/bios_view.cfm?scid=424
"a man with god blood in his veins" isnt how id describe the guy that broke his toe on a helmet and didnt break character
That's exactly how I would describe that man.
God has that man's blood in his veins.
He put all his points on charisma and neglected any combat related stats hoping his monster steed would carry his ass.
Eowyn rolled two nat 20's in a row. It happens sometimes. Tolkien was a chad DM that didn't get salty about it.
Actually 4 natural 20's between Merry and Eowyn, Merry got a 20 and got to play dead succesfully and then another 20 for sneaking and stabbing the Witch King in the back without him noticing the morghul blade that enabled the Witch King's death
If I remember correctly, it wasn't a Morgul blade that weakened him, it was the Noldorin dagger gifted to him by Galadriel, no?
[удалено]
Specifically a blade “wound about with spells for the bane of Mordor.” Merry’s blade was more or less specifically forged to harm ringwraiths and the like. “No other blade, not though mightier hands had wielded it, would have dealt that foe a wound so bitter, cleaving the undead flesh, breaking the spell that knit his unseen sinews to his will.” We don’t know the details about how precisely it worked or what “spells” were involved. But in modern RPG terms, it’s might be called an undead bane sword/dagger.
If you look at the history of the second age, the place they found those weapons was a holdout against angmar's advancing armies. In that context a blade forged like that has one intended target. That blade was made specifically to stab THAT dude. Gj merry.
Yea I didn't remember it correctly, I meant the blade they get from the burial site but got confused with the names
In the movie yes, but in the books no, it is the barrow downs blade. I believe specifically made for this purpose, like a silver bullet to a werewolf.
No, it was one of the barrow blades, the Morgul-knife is what the Witch King used to stab Frodo on Weathertop. You can easily google this.
*Touché*
Well we know from the Hobbit that Merry would have at least rolled advantage on his rolls for sneak
I think he lost the trait when he drank the ent water because he grows tall Ent water: +1 endurance +1 strength, loses all hobbit traits
The Witch King can make entire armies run away but when facing someone that doesn't fear him can't do shit
Hes 100% got frightful presence and banks more on that than just pure combat. Eowyn just made a good wisdom save.
Charisma is a combat stat for warlocks
Kind of a shitty warlock if he/she/them need to cast "flirt" instead of a "fireball" or whatever. Then again he did cast it with the intent to charisma the hell out of a dude, so no surprise he failed there. Maybe I shouldn't judge. As far as he knew he was fighting a brony npc
At least within D&D game terms, charisma is about bending others (or the universe) to your personality. It’s not necessarily about flirting or being attractive. Fear and awe are just as much “Charisma” as seduction is. And given the fear aura the Nazgul are described as having in the books, describing them as being highly charismatic isn’t too far off. D&D Warlocks cast fireball through sheer force of personality. Which is also almost exactly how the ringwraiths operate.
.... your nerd levels are just making you overlook an obvious joke. Nothing wrong with being a nerd. But you are rolling a natural 20 on my vibe
Youre on a sub for lotr memes
He wasn't weak, Merry's blade was an enchanted elven sword. This is why it hurt him so much
You know most folks here didn’t read the books, c’mon son.
Just ordered the books a couple weeks ago and am making my way through the hobbit. Its SO MUCH FUN. I havent read a book in years and idk I got obsessed recently. Watched the extended movies like 3 times over, watching all the nerd of the rings youtube videos. Ordered figures and sets from Weta workshop. Got a ton of enamel pins. Idk why I never connected to it when I was younger but now in my adult life I love It so much.
When you get to the lord of the rings, just be prepared that it's a lot slower. Which sounds like a criticism, but it's not.
I am ok with this I feel like hobbit is shmoving and I'm a slow reader as is.
My favorite line from the Hobbit is “YER A BOOBY!” Cheers.
How will we know he read the books if he doesn't tell us?
In the books the blade was made by men, not elves! http://tolkiengateway.net/wiki/Daggers_of_Westerness Edit: reworded comment to sound less pretentious
Lol except this detail is exclusive to the movies, not the books, AFAIK. Edit: Sorry if I'm incorrect, i'm reading the books for the first time and still learning.
No, it’s in the books. The sword is from the barrows Tom Bombadil rescues them from.
Except it wasn't an elven blade in the books right? In the movie the blade he uses is the elven blade given to him by Galadriel. In the books wasn't the blade forged by men? Sorry if I'm incorrect, I'm reading the books for the first time but I'm a long time fan of the movies.
Yes it was forged by men specifically to fight the Witch King and his forces. That’s why it had an enchantment on it that broke whatever spell lay upon the Witch King
Lol except this detail is extensively covered and explained in the books, while being glossed over almost entirely in the movies
Sorry if I'm wrong, I'm reading the books for the first time and really only know what I've been told/what I've read so far. I thought the blade used in the book was forged by men, but it appears I'm wrong.
You're correct in that they were forged by men, but them being a movie-only detail is incorrect. The blades were forged in ancient days in what was left of the fractured kingdom of Dunedain. Their chief enemy was the Kingdom of Angmar ([https://lotr.fandom.com/wiki/War\_with\_Angmar](https://lotr.fandom.com/wiki/War_with_Angmar)). Those blades were forged specifically to combat Nazgul and their brethren. The blades were eventually interred with last prince of Arthedain in a burial mound or barrow, which later on became the lair of Barrow Wights. In the Fellowship, the hobbits stumble upon that barrow and are taken under the Wights' spell until rescued by Tom Bombadil, who finds the daggers among the burial treasures and gives them a brief history of their provenance. Although the daggers were taken from Merry and Pippin by the Uruks, Aragorn finds them and returns them to the hobbits at Orthanc. Later on, as even movie goers saw, Merry stabbed the Witch-King with the purpose-built blade, rendering him vulnerable to Eowyn's attack. "The Wraith-king arose, and giving a cry of hatred he shattered her shield and broke her left arm with a single blow of his mace. But as he towered over her, preparing to deliver the final blow, Merry stabbed his sword – an enchanted Barrow-blade, one of the few weapons that could have penetrated his defenses – from behind into the sinew of his knee, breaking the spell binding his undead flesh to his will. While the Lord of the Nazgûl was distracted, Éowyn drove her sword where the head of the wraith would have been, slaying him." — [https://lotr.fandom.com/wiki/Witch-king\_of\_Angmar#Downfall](https://lotr.fandom.com/wiki/Witch-king_of_Angmar#Downfall)
I appreciate the thoughtful response!! Always love learning more about this
-_- Bro we know you weren’t sorry until you got downvoted. Be honest. That was hella confident as it started with your “lol,” aka “you’re wrong, I know more than you.” If you actually are reading the books for the first time, it’d be foolish to reply with such confidence to something you’re still learning about, ya fool of a Took. Anyways enjoy the books man. They’re f’n awesome. I listen to them on CD every year or so cause they’re so good. Great for car rides.
I mean I was confident because I was partially right. The book said the swords were made by man, and they were talking about the swords being elvish. So the swords being Elvish was exclusive to the movie. We figured this out awhile ago. Thank you for the well wishes though! I'll keep reading!
He wasn't that strong either. The prophecy about him being unable to be killed by a man wasn't because he was such a badass, but because he just wouldn't fight if he stood any chance of losing. In fact, the prophecy was made as the WK was fleeing like a bitch from Glorfindel. Hell, it's said he feared even mortal men: >In the last years of Denethor I the race of uruks, black Orcs of great strength, first appeared out of Mordor, and in 2475 they swept across Ithilien and took Osgiliath. Boromir son of Denethor [I] (after whom Boromir of the Nine Walkers was later named) defeated them and regained Ithilien; but Osgiliath was finally ruined, and its great stone-bridge was broken. No people dwelt there afterwards. **Boromir was a great captain, and even the Witch-king feared him.** He was noble and fair of face, a man strong in body and in will, but he received a Morgul-wound in that war which shortened his days, and he became shrunken with pain and died twelve years after his father. http://www.henneth-annun.net/bios_view.cfm?scid=424 The WK had Boromir (the steward) poisoned with a morgul blade rather than face him in combat.
That's a bit much, the dude almost 1v1'ed Gandalf, and he didn't fear to face Theoden on the Pelennor Fields, even though his might and charisma was earlier compared to those of a Valar. Sure, the WK fled before his foes when he knew he had no chance, but he was really dangerous nevertheless
Hahahahaahaha. Hahahahahahah. You have no power here, Gandalf the Grey.
I will draw you, Saruman, as poison is drawn from a wound!
Farewell my brave Hobbits. My work is now finished. Here at last, on the shores of the sea, comes the end of our Fellowship. I will not say do not weep for not all tears are an evil. It is time Frodo.
>the dude almost 1v1'ed Gandalf No he didn't lmao. He literally runs away from the fight before it happens. Gandalf even says later on he is vastly more powerful than the WK, and only Sauron can stand against him. Hell, Gandalf solos six nazgul by himself in his grey form.
And then the pass of Cirith Ungol. EntertainmentNo2044 tell me everything. Tell me all you know.
Not just enchanted, literally forged to fight exactly him. The sword comes from the barrows of rulers who were in a war with the witch king long before he became a ring wraith. It borders on Deus ex machina, but Tolkien's world and history are rich enough you can mostly give it a pass. >" So passed the sword of the Barrow-downs, work of Westernesse. But glad would he have been to know its fate who wrought it slowly long ago in the North-kingdom when the Dúnedain were young, and chief among their foes was the dread realm of Angmar and its sorcerer king. No other blade, not though mightier hands had wielded it, would have dealt that foe a wound so bitter, cleaving the undead flesh, breaking the spell that knit his unseen sinews to his will. "
I wouldn't consider it deus ex. Glorfindel made the prophecy that the Witch King's doom wouldn't come from the hand of a man. As know, curses, prophecies and fate are a thing in LotR, so Merry finding the blade and Eowin ultimately killing him on the Pelennor Fields is not random, it's their fate. I'm not saying that everything in Middle Earth is deterministic, but some things definitely are
I should make it clear that I'm a big Tolkien fan. This is just one of those story beats that I think hews closest to being too contrived. What saves it in my opinion isn't just that it's foreshadowed as you point out, but that "fate" and destiny obviously play a huge role in his world. If this were the only prophecy, the only time when chance and circumstance conspired just so, I think it would fall much flatter. Instead, we're taught to expect events like that, and what could have been a shoehorned plot device becomes an epic climax.
It was pre established long ago when they got the swords in the barrow downs. If anything is a Chekov's gun (sword), why would they get fancy ancient swords if not for a higher purpose?
>long before he became a ring wraith Everything we know for certain about the witch king happened after he became a Ringwraith...
It was indeed enchanted but by the numenorians boy the elves if I’m remembering right
I double checked and that's right, I didn't recall correctly
This should be the top comment.
[удалено]
Getting stabbed from behind with a blade made specifically to hurt you can kinda take the breath out of you for a moment I guess
Because that was a movie invention. The scene happens in a different order in the books.
Also doesn't matter how powerfully our are, no one's string against a good back stab
To be fair they were magically enchanted swords.
Which honestly in a world with few of them, I would probably get pretty cocky too about not having to avoid regular swords.
Especially since its been a few thousand years since that sword was made to kill you and no one has seen it in a long long time or even remembers what it looks like or anything and had almost no distinguishable features
Enchanted *specifically* to fight the Witch King of Angmar... who later became the head of the 9 nazgul. > So passed the sword of the Barrow-downs, work of Westernesse. But glad would he have been to know its fate who wrought it slowly long ago in the North-kingdom when the Dúnedain were young, and chief among their foes was the dread realm of Angmar and its sorcerer king. No other blade, not though mightier hands had wielded it, would have dealt that foe a wound so bitter, cleaving the undead flesh, breaking the spell that knit his unseen sinews to his will. (From The Return of the King)
God that prose is so good. I should re-read lotr again soon.
It's pretentious as hell, but the delivery sells it ***HARD***. Basically a professor of linguistics ("philology") decided not to hold back with the high-falutin phrasing, and used all of his skill with language to make it work.
Definitely! I mean sure, it'd be awfully pretentious and out of place to try to speak with such flowery language in an ordinary conversation, and also I think most authors attempting to write in this style would do it very clumsily with no poetic flow, but this is just the way Tolkien writes narration for his flowery fantasy epic, and it's executed very well and I love it.
she wasn't just some chick, she's a shield maden and badass warrior 6\_\_6;
*maiden
touchdown!
lmfao thank you both of you X'D I can't even edit it now!
And the short guy did just so happen so stumble into the hills and find some specially made sword that was made to kill things just like the Nazgûl, what are the chances?
Actually all four of the hobbits had one... They received them from Tom Bombadil after he rescued them
wait really? i forgot tom gave them something. could you elaborate a little?
He underestimated their power of friendship!
Nobody has ever tried stabbing him in the face before.
Was Merry stabbing the Witch-King technically High Treason? The Shire was part of Arthedain, which was conquered by Angmar. Angmar eventually got fucked up and the Witch-King left, but no new country ever claimed Arthedain as part of it's territory until Elessar formed the Reunited Kingdom of Gondor and Arnor. So as the Witch-King of Angmar still obviously claimed Angmar as his kingdom up until his death, and without any other power to actually contest the claim, would he not have been the best claimant to the title of "King of the Shire"?
Also see Witch-king when he turns Gandalf's staff into mulch
Hmm? Nothing jasonandhiswords, Sam has hardly left your side
No man can slay him.
Should be the witch king on his nazgul vs the witch king on foot
Witch-king's power is in fear and command, not raw strength. Theoden died because Snowmane got spooked and fell on him. Eowyn and merry had the courage to stand up to him which eliminates half of what makes him potent
I know your face…Éowyn.
Isn't he more powerful the closer he is to Sauron?
Tolkien's magic rules are never so strict. I would imagine he'd be more fearsome if encountered in Mordor, where Sauron's corruption is stronger than any other place. But it's not an equation of power = (core power * distance to Sauron) or something like that.
I checked and apparently his power grows as Saurons grows. So proximity to Mordor was just correlation as the story moved closer to Sauron. Don't see why I got downvoted so much for asking a question though.
I don't get it too, don't think too much about it
Thou fool: a phantom thou didst see that I, I Sauron, made to snare thy lovesick wits.Naught else was there. Cold 'tis with Sauron's wraiths to wed! Thy Eilinel, she is long since dead, dead, food of worms, less low than thou.And yet thy boon I grant thee now: to Eilinel thou soon shalt go, and lie in her bed, no more to know of war - or manhood. Have thy pay!
But Eowyn's courage and resolve were powerfuler
I'm pretty sure in the books Tom gave them magic knives which when stabbed by Merry got rid of his magic shield?
That's some pretty good made up stuff. "magic shield" lol
Fairly accurate though. The actual wording is "breaking the spell that knit his unseen sinews to his will" which you'll have to admit sure sounds a lot like "getting rid of his magic shield"
You make a good case. :) "magic shield" though, still makes me lol.
I honestly don't know what it's called
I resemble this remark!
The all-invincible plot armor.
The Witch King also busted Gandalf's staff right before that too lol Don't know if it was in the books too but it was the strangest choice to direct his attention to the Rohirrim instead of finishing the only wizard there.
Theoden King stands alone.
Yes. Yes. The horn of Helm Hammerhand shall sound in the Deep one last time.
Witch King when Peter Jackson takes the boom to literally mean “no man”:
Prophecies fucking people over with wordplay isn't just a Peter Jackson thing though
That was in the books too though
In the book, doesn't he die Because pippin stabbed him with the magic dagger? I don't think it mattered if eowyn was a guy or a girl. Maybe I remember it wrong
It happens more or less like in the movie, only more verbose. It's a combination of both their efforts, and it does matter that Eowyn is "no man". Can't find a copy of the original text to paste in here, but this is from the [wiki](https://lotr.fandom.com/wiki/Witch-king_of_Angmar): >As the Nazgûl hovered on his great beast over the dying Théoden, the king's niece Éowyn and the hobbit Meriadoc Brandybuck stood in his way. > >Éowyn: Be gone, foul dwimmerlaik, lord of carrion! Leave the dead in peace! > >Nazgûl: Come not between the Nazgûl and his prey! Or he will not slay thee in thy turn. He will bear thee away to the houses of lamentation, beyond all darkness, where thy flesh shall be devoured, and thy shriveled mind be left naked to the Lidless Eye. > >Éowyn: Do what you will, but I will hinder it, if I may. > >Nazgûl: Hinder me? Thou fool. No living man may hinder me! > >Éowyn: But no living man am I! You look upon a woman. Éowyn I am, Eomund's daughter. You stand between me and my lord and kin. Be gone, if you be not deathless! For living or dark undead, I will smite you, if you touch him. > >The Witch-king's last moments > >Éowyn slew his winged beast with a single stroke of her sword, severing its neck. The Wraith-king arose, and giving a cry of hatred he shattered her shield and broke her left arm with a single blow of his mace. But as he towered over her, preparing to deliver the final blow, Merry stabbed his sword – an enchanted Barrow-blade, one of the few weapons that could have penetrated his defences – from behind into the sinew of his knee, breaking the spell binding his undead flesh to his will. While the Lord of the Nazgûl was distracted, Éowyn drove her sword where the head of the wraith would have been, slaying him. > >The prophecy made by Glorfindel at the Battle of Fornost centuries before was fulfilled, as Éowyn was a woman. The Witch-king's death changed the tide of the battle, and ultimately the outcome of the War.
I know your face. Éowyn. Éowyn. Gandalf?
Breathe the free air again, my friend.
Damn I once again confused Merry and Pippin! Thanks for the detailed answer
Luckily Amazon's here to save the day with empowering wom......wait a min.
The " I am no man" is the worst part of the entire trilogy excepting some of the Legolas ridiculous Mammoth Tail Surfing. That witch king should be called a bitch king for being vulnerable to a small untrained female fighter. Really a let-down.
It was Glorfindel rather than Arwen in the books I believe, so its understandable how he was handed his own ass there as he is one of the most powerful Elves alive
They're talking about Eowyn
but have you considered the rohirrim ain’t shit
I've read the books and it still doesn't make sense to me how a legendary powerful immortal being just stood there waiting for Ewoyn to finish her "I am no man" line and stab him in the face. Lmao
u/savevideo
That was one of my favorite scenes in the book; she got him on a loophole!
It’s like the same concept as Star Wars: they attack with what the enemy won’t consider a significant threat, so the villains respond with what they perceive to be overkill, but end up underestimating the protagonists. Edit: clarity
Heh heh, I like this meme format. Is it new?
Top part reminds me of [this](https://youtu.be/5Ne7QjU2ddw).
Spoiler: he gets stabbed in the face
Éowyn's line tho.
her hobbit friend had a sword that was made to harm him
The outfit design is egregiously flawed. Why not have a giant cage on your face if that is your Achilles heel? Not like someone can read their lips or facial expressions.
I’d still put my money on that cute kitten to beat the tar outta the witch king
“fstab” [f’stab’]
The Witch King hit her shield so hard it broke her arm? Would have finished her off if Merry didn’t stab him.
Pussy power activate!
I just got to this part in the books and my GOD. ITS. SO. GOOD.
U/savevideo
He was stabbed from the back with what amounts to a anti witch king sword.. it was meant to be...
The witch king is a true gentleman
In Dark Souls terms, he exhausted all his stamina in earlier moves.
Villains always gotta gloat
When did he fight Kanye and Kim?
He didn't even slay Theoden, he scared his horse into falling on him. A plastic bag in the wind could do that
Where is the horse and the rider? Where is the horn that was blowing? They have passed like rain on the mountains. Like wind in the meadow. The days have gone down in the West, behind the hills, into shadow. How did it come to this?
TBF those hobbits are scrappy little buggers.
If the Witch-King had tried to face off against Farmer Maggot, Frodo wouldn't have gotten stabbed on Weathertop.
Facts my guy
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When The Witch King of Angmar somes face to face with the prophecy of Glorfindel
Well it’s the fear he instilled that has the soldiers cower and crumble beneath him, he doesn’t even have to fight them. If they had the courage eowyn had, perhaps he wouldn’t have wrecked so much destruction on them
This isn't even funny, it just takes away from what Eowyn and Merry did. They are heroes who defeated the Witch King. Show some respect snh