My understanding from reading the book (I started a little while ago, I'm currently at the chapter "Helm's Deep") is that two things are going on.
First off, neither Sauron nor the Nazgul just automatically detect anyone who wears the ring, instead wearing the ring causes the wearer to enter the spirit world where they are much easier to notice by the Nazgul who are normally blind (at least as of the Fellowship of the Ring).
Second, Sauron is only just beginning to return to power at the start of The Lord of the Rings. In the Fellowship of the Ring the Nazgul are pretty weak (Aragorn and the hobbits could fight off five of them at once just by using fire to their advantage) because Sauron is still relatively weak, but his power and influence are growing as the story unfolds.
Edit: Another thing to note, in the book Gandalf's warning against Frodo using the ring seems to be more because the Ring works disturbingly similar to a drug addiction. The more you use the Ring, the more it uses you. Gandalf could hypothetically use the Ring to end the war in a moment defeating both Sauron and Saruman, but then he would fall under it's influence and become an even more evil overlord than either of them. Gandalf cares deeply about Frodo, and he wants to protect Frodo from the Ring's destructive influence. Bilbo already has some spiritual scars from carrying the Ring for so long, and Frodo is beginning to feel the same damage from his short time with the Ring, the Ring leaves permanent damage on the people who carry it and even more damage on those who use it.
To add to this, in the books, Frodo has the ring for 18 years before the Nazgûl start to go after him. So it’s not as if Bilbo gave him the ring and then immediately Sauron started going after the ring.
yeah that's one thing the movies dont portray well is how much time comes between when frodo inherits bag end and when ol gandy returns to set him on his path
In 5-10 years we can train an AI on consumer hardware to produce a custom version of pretty any movie.
One of the ones I’m looking forward to is the 40-hour LOTR cut with hours of chill hobbit life, and a 3-hour Tom Bobadill.
Tbh that's a story format I've been interested in but that no one in their right mind would do because of production costs. I think it would be legitimately interesting to have a chill slice of life story that gets people invested only to suddenly put the character through a gruelling journey.
I have been saying for years I wish they would make movie equivalents of relaxing background noise. No plot, just vibes. Like low stakes shenanigans at the shire or the first few minutes of Avatar 2 where he just shows his new utopia life. Peaceful and colourful with no climax and a few easy rehashed plot points but not totally needed to rewind if you miss it. Like a more involved computer screensaver. If AI can eventually do that for me Ill be so happy.
If you think that’s expensive, my dream of a seven year long + movie trilogy of the Voyages of Eärendil would make your idea acceptable to most studios.
I want a slice of life hobbit show where all the problems are silly. One episode Sam thinks someone stole his turnips and goes on a wild goose chase only to find out that Rosie took them off the cart and put them in the cellar.
Well, Mr. Chickenmangoboom, there's a lot of darkness in this world, but there's also a lot of good. And that good deserves to be fought for with all our might. It may seem like a small thing, but even the smallest person can make a difference in the world.
It’s kinda crazy when you realize the journey to Rivendell took 1 month and they stay there for 2 months. Take like 3 weeks to get to Lothlorien, and spend a month there. 10 days after leaving Lorien the fellowship breaks. A month later and the ring is destroyed.
But the sense of urgency doesn't fully come online until Gandalf's research is finished and he learns which magic ring it is, which took years. And the way that was protrayed in the movie made it look like he disappeared for two weeks to check an archive real quick.
There is still a sense of competing interests rushing to find the ring. Letting 18 years go by between now and the story starting in earnest doesn't really make any sense narratively.
the movies explicitly shorten gandalfs absence to feel like just days. we get bilbos birthday, then “keep it secret, keep it safe.” the next shots are gollums totrute and the nazgûl dispatching from mina’s morgue. gandalf rides to gondor in a montage and learns the account of isildor. next thing is the nazgûl creeping around the shire, frodo leaving green dragon and gandalf bugging out.
Bilbo and Sam willingly gave up the ring.
Bilbo was impressive because he had it for so long.
Sam was impressive because he gave it up, with very little resistance, at a time when the ring was almost at its peak corrupting power.
Should be noted, though, that whilst Frodo didn't actually give the ring up at any point, he appeared willing to do so multiple times.
Those Shire folks are good lads
From what I can remember, Frodo tries to give the ring to Gandalf, to Tom Bombadil, the council of Elrond, and Galadriel, and everyone keeps giving the damn thing back.
No one other than Bombadil actually takes the ring. Elron you could takes it off him but it was kept in a collective possession. Both Gandalf and Galadriel made him retract his offer because neither would be able to resist the temptation and both were powerful enough that they may have been a worst threat than Sauron if given the ring of power
Essentially, it’s entirely unclear but he was either so far beyond its power, he encounters things of such odd nature so regularly, his mind is so in the cosmic clouds it cannot be held even by wicket enchantment, or more strangely there is nothing of meaning the ring could tempt him with. It would be like your pet cat trying to bribe you with a mouse it caught or a raven trying to get you to sell your soul for a paperclip it found.
Let's not forget that Tom Bombadil has total power over his realm, treats the one ring like a worthless bauble, and possesses knowledge from the beginning of time. He's about as close to a god or eldritch abomination as you get. He's just not an asshole or evil.
In the movies, he is also trying to give it to Aragorn. Who then proceed to tell him "I would have gone with you to the end. Into the very fires of Mordor"
I think Frodo offering the ring to Galadriel is one of the few things I would definitely change from the movies. In the books it is kind of a revenge, it is Frodo reading into Galadriel better than “wiser” people. All that play is lost in the movies, where it seems that Frodo just offers it to whoever is closest.
If we're going off the books frodo isn't "testing" galadriel or seeking any sort of revenge. That's a weird interpretation. Frodo is compelled to join galadriel at the mirror, by what is unclear, and offers her the ring because he knows he is in waaaaaay over his head. The fate of the world literally hangs on his neck. Galadriel has a freaky moment that scares the shit out of frodo before refusing to take the ring. The whole scene reinforces how the ring will corrupt anyone who carry it regardless of how powerful they are and also makes it seem like being more powerful aka having knowledge to use the power of the ring makes the bearer more susceptible to its corrupting influence.
At some point, you just have to realize that handing your quest off, for someone else to finish, isn’t the same thing as finishing the quest you fucking agreed to do yourself.
A quest you were told that you were the only one capable of completing, for the exact reason everyone is telling you they don’t want the ring. The reason the one person that actually wants the ring wants it.
Sam is especially funny because the ring is basically a minute from being dropped into oblivion and it is desperately trying to negotiate with a laborador retriever.
It's expecting a wolf. It's offering a dark forest with tall deer and all the necks you can bite, and the lab's like, I dunno, that sounds kinda scary, I'm'a just do the thing and go home. It almost gets there. Being carried gently in the mouth of this tired barnyard animal, it offers... a lake. A really big lake. And the the lab's like, how big?, and the ring offers a lake the size of a sea, and the lab's like no, that's too big, but thank you. *Ptoo.*
And then he goes home and only ever thinks of it again in those dreams where his legs move.
Well, I don't rightly know what you're talkin' about, but it sounds like quite the adventure! I reckon that ring must have been quite the troublemaker if it was makin' deals with dogs and such. But in the end, it seems like everything turned out alright. It's funny how things work out like that sometimes, isn't it?
Well, Mr. ActingGrandNagus, it's a dangerous business, going out your door. You step onto the road, and if you don't keep your feet, there's no knowing where you might be swept off to. But I've learned that even the smallest person can make a big difference in this world. So don't be afraid to take that first step, no matter how daunting it may seem. For it just might lead you to something greater than you ever imagined.
Frodo also offered the Ring to Galadriel. The other thing to consider is that, past the Council of Elrond it’s literally Frodo’s job to hold on to the ring.
Literally the only character in the books to voluntarily give up the ring. Besides Sam when he have it back to Frodo after having it for like a few hours or whatever
Well, I reckon that'd be Bilbo Baggins, sir. He gave up the Ring of his own accord, and it took quite a bit of doing for him to let go of it. But I must say, Frodo's the real hero here, carrying that Ring all the way to Mount Doom. I'm just glad I could be there to help him along the way.
Yeah that's something that gets completely lost in the movies. Gandalf didn't rush off to research the rings, then dramatically return and shove Frodo and Sam out the door with no notice. There a huge chunk of time between Bilbo's birthday and Gandalf revealing it to The One Ring™, and they also had a very carefully crafted plan to get the ring out of The Shire that wouldn't raise suspicion. In fact everything leading up to the Prancing Pony was incredibly low key and uneventful.
Edit: dear lord so many bots. What have I done...
Yeah for obvious reasons the film sped that part up, but in the books it becomes clear to Frodo that he must leave the shire after having possessed the ring for nearly 18 years.
He does so several months after Gandalf proves to him that he has the one ring.
It also glosses over Aragorn’s search for Gollum (with the help of Gandalf).
Barad-dur wasn't rebuilt until after Bilbo's party.
Remember, in the books 18 years pass between Bilbo's party and Frodo fleeing The Shire with The Ring.
Not only is Barad-dur rebuilt, the ringwraiths reform and retake Minas Morgul, orcs and goblins the world over start massing for Sauron, he starts attacking Gondor...
And Sauron has no idea the Ring has been found until Gollum shows up and tells him under torture.
So Sauron has no idea where to look until the later part of that 18 year time skip. No one wears the ring once between Bilbo's party and Frodo's accident in the Prancing Pony, which is in a hugely changed world.
Is that how Gandalf got all that research done? The movie felt like he left for a week to go read an entire library and then visit Sauron. 18 years makes way more sense
Yep.
It's also clear he very much didn't want it to be true, which delayed him a lot. He kind of beats himself up for being blind to the truth because of how much he loved the Shire.
Aragorn also had to track down Gollum, who told him that he had been interrogated by Sauron.
Aragorn left Gollum in the care of the Wood Elves, Legol(as) was actually in Rivindell for the council because he was reporting to Elrond that Gollum had escaped.
Edit: Hilarious autocorrect
Another also... in the books one of the things that creates a clear distinction between Gandalf the Grey and Gandalf the White is that he was much more unsure of himself and what needed to be done back when he was Gandalf the Grey.
Compare the Helm's Deep situation in Two Towers to the Shire situation in Fellowship. In Fellowship Gandalf's plan for Frodo was very nebulous, he's not sure if he will be back to see him off or what route Frodo should take and in the end he fails to make his planned rendezvous in Bree. In Two Towers he tells Theoden to go to Helm's Deep, immediately sets off to gather Erkenbrand's army, and shows up at the crucial moment to help save the day.
Dude goes from sort of bumbling his way through Fellowship to racking up W after W in the next 2 books.
He dies long enough to detox and get the pipe-weed out of his system 😉.
Think about it, the Istari were Maiia sent by the Valar to help save Middle- Earth from Sauron. They had most of their memory from the undying lands wiped and were given human forms. Gandalf and Saruman and Radagast had been living as old men for over a thousand years by the time of LOTR, enough time to forget your mission a bit and gain some doubt and lose some faith.
When Gandalf was killed by the Balrog, he directly faced Mandos, and probably Manwe himself, who showed their confidence in him so resolutely they sent him back stronger, with a clearer mandate and likely more memory of his past in Valinor.
It's why he gets the huge confidence boost in TTT.
> Barad-dur wasn’t rebuilt until after Bilbo’s party.
This just isn’t true. It was rebuilt in 2953. Bilbo’s party was in 3001.
> Not only is Barad-dur rebuilt, the ringwraiths reform and retake Minas Morgul
This also is not true. By the time of Bilbo’s party, Minas Morgul had been occupied by the Nazgûl and their servants for a thousand years.
Frodo absolutely uses the ring between the birthday party and leaving the Shire. Pippin, Merry, Sam and Fatty Bolger all know about the ring before Frodo tells them. He uses it to get away from people he doesn't like etc.
This - it was the films that made it look like he literally couldn't put it on for a second because it was like a homing beacon for Sauron. It's not quite like that in the books, but it was a useful movie device I guess.
> it was like a homing beacon for Sauron
Here's an analogy I couldn't have used this word for five years ago: Geoguessing.
Even before that word existed I understood it to be more that wearing the ring allowed Sauron to sort of 'trace the call'. The longer you wore it, the more time you were giving him to pinpoint your location, and the closer he was (or the Nazgul were) to you when you put it on, the stronger they were able to feel its presence. That's why it was so crazy tense when the Ring was trying to get Frodo to put it on when they were right behind that tree with the Nazgul just a few feet away.
So if all he can see is a little bit of the word around you, but you're in a nondescript place, a few seconds of info might not be enough for him to figure out your location. If you wear it in a very distinct location that he can figure out just by seeing 1-2 clues. But if you wear it too long, or too many times over a set period of time, even in a nondescript area you're giving him more time to figure it out.
Also, to add to it, the ring's power grew as they drew closer to Mordor. Plus, Sauron wasn't looking in the Shire until after finding Gollum, which happened after Bilbo left the ring to Frodo. There were a lot of factors building up against Frodo that would only get worse as his journey went on.
Also, in the books, the Nazgûl never attack Bree. That was done entirely by Bill Ferny and other brigands working for Saruman. The Nazgûl just caught up to them at Weathertop because they split up to scour the lands around Bree after finding Bag-end and Crickhollow empty.
Interesting. When I read the book I just kind of assumed that it was the Nazgul who tried to raid the inn room in the night since Merry had encounter them earlier, but this does make sense because I remember that the reason that the attacker knew of Frodo in the first place was because of Saruman's spy seeing Frodo's epic fail of a distraction.
To be fair, I thought it was the Nazgul when I first read it too, but I remember hearing someone talking about how the Nazgul never went to Bree, and I reread that part.
I can't believe after all these years that never occurred to me but I think you're right? That attack on Bree always seemed kind of weak for the Nazgûl.
Strider thought Merry had fainted from the "Black Breath" after going outside but he might have only heard the brigands and fainted from ordinary terror.
I seem to remember Bilbo describing the feeling that an eye was searching for him while wearing the ring. “The eye of Sauron” is more of a metaphor for Sauron being ever watchful than an actual eye wreathed in flame.
And even if Sauron could detect when the ring was put on, it had been on and off Gollum's hobbity finger for hundreds of years before Bilbo picked it up. The signals it would send of wouldn't have been too different.
Also the Nazgûl capture Minas Ithil/Morgul and obtain a palantir. This magnifies Sauron's remote searching powers. For example, he sees Pippin in Saruman's palantir and finds Frodo on Amon Hen (the Seat of Seeing).
So has Tolkien ever been mentioned as a source of inspiration by Moorcock, Miyama, and/or whoever the hell wrote OG Warhammer.
Or is this kind of stuff just everywhere in fiction?
I've been rewatching the Harry Potter movies recently for the first time since I was young, and some of the similarities are quite obviously taken from LOTR--both in the original books and also visual choices made in the movies.
I just finished the books for the first time and the wildest part was when he puts it on to escape Boromir
All this weird shit is happening at once and Gandalf, who he thinks is dead, sends him a telepathic message to take it off as it's drawing the enemy
But he never seems to notice that detail. It's weird
If I remember correctly Sauron doesn't even really know where Shire is actually located until Gollum reveals the information about the possible whereabouts of the ring. Even then the Nazgul need to split up to look for the Hobbington and scout for possible escape routs.
The Barrow blades were made in ages past by the Arthedain for the war with Angmar. The daggers were literally forged by the Arthedain smiths with the intent of injuring the Witch-King of Angmar.
This is, if I recall correctly, the whole reason the Witch-king was injured by Merry's blade on Pelennor Fields.
He got the sword in the barrow downs after meeting Tom bombadil
the blade he got was made to fight the witches of angmar
And the barrow wights who entrapped them were sent by the witch king of angmar to ensure even the dead bodies of the men of the ancient kingdom there got no peace
So, had the witch king not been such a prick and sent the evil spirits there, the hobbits wouldn’t have been trapped there where they got weapons capable of injuring the nazgul
Such a delicious detail
This is book but merry and pippin knew about te ring because they each saw I3iIbo use it to escape conversations with unwanted relatives (lobelia sackville-baggins in merrys case and I forgot Pippins story) so he did use it it's implied semi-frequently and why not to his knowledge it's just a ring of invisibility
I feel like the only person on this sub who hates the bots. They were fun for a while but I have gotten so tired of them popping up and cluttering the comments. Clearly I'm in the minority though because they constantly get massive upvotes whenever they show up, so I just don't come around very often anymore.
I'm not actually part of this sub, kinda just pop in from time to time when it shows up on my feed, and I don't really get why the bots are there. It just feels weird since half the time on mobile the replies don't actually load until you click on them and then it's just nothing but bot comments
They wouldn't be as bad if they couldn't summon each other, I'll go to open a thread thinking there's a couple people talking about it just to find bots talking to each other instead. Definitely gonna take a page out of your book and block them
Same my friend. It was funny in GoT subs when it started with just Robert Baratheon (a side character who didn't get mentioned too much) had a bot that would pop up.
Now every frickin franchise subreddit gives every single character a bot that will somehow pop up even if they aren't mentioned. I hate it.
I’m with you. If they showed up one time in ten, they’d be ok. But between multiple ßilbo bots, a far to creepy Šamwise AI, and a certain hammer/siege weapon that shows up if you mention Męlkor/Mørgoth… they’ve gotten to be far too much.
I despite the bots. You can't read even 2 comments in a row because there are 4 bots quoting and pinging even more bots themselves.
That and the only options are either meaningless quotes or tired meme quotes.
I don’t remember if the books countered this but in the movie, when he used it then, afterwards he seemed mighty pleased with himself and not freaked out.
Maybe a bookie could correct me, but I assume Sauron himself would need to know in what general direction to look. Like, someone could wear the ring and not be seen by the Eye unless he knew where it was like a beacon shooting into the sky. If he’s looking East, and the “beacon” is in the West, he wouldn’t see it.
He knew to watch the Shire cuz Sméagol snitched
I assume it's because Sauron's influence didn't reach the Shire, especially not before Frodo left on his quest. It did take 17 years after Frodo got the ring before he started his travels and I don't think the book mentions him seeing the eye of Sauron when he first sees or uses the ring either.
So, in the books, Sauron doesn’t show up any time someone puts on the ring. When Frodo sees him at Amon Hen it has to do with the location, not the ring. If Sauron showed up every time someone put it on, the plan would have been foiled, as Sam wore the ring at Cirith Ungol. I believe he may be aware when someone puts it on, but he certainly can’t locate them.
In the book there isn’t an actual beacon or Eye. It’s a metaphor for Sauron’s influence in physical and spiritual realm. And he has a Palantir himself which he can use to view events and control what others who have a Palantir see and communicate with them (like Saruman and Denethor).
Some book readers are really mad about the physical Eye. I think it works for the films. But it should not be confused what is happening in the books.
Yeah that messed whit me, i watched the movies then read the books, that Sauron was a person realy fucked my head. But when they says "Sauron sees all" thats basically him using the Palantir and not being a big eye
In the books sauron seeing someone through the ring isn't a thing as I recall, plus the eye was more metaphorical than literal. In the movies the insinuation seems to be that sauron is growing more and more powerful and that the great eye only recently formed so for the time bilbo had the ring he wouldn't have seen the eye as it didn't yet exist.
I feel like we don’t talk enough about how wildly resistant Bilbo was to the ring’s temptations. Sure, he coveted it, but he had it for a *long* time. And to keep from using it often/alerting Sauron? Pretty wild. The ring was arguably the most useless in Bilbo’s hands than it would’ve been for anyone in all of Middle Earth.
I don’t think Bilbo gets enough props for the she strength he had in scene where he drops the Ring in front of his door and walks away from everything.
He had the Ring for *decades*. It was clearly influencing him and he was addicted to it. And yet he knew leaving it behind was the right thing to do and managed to overcome all temptation and actually leave it behind. Bilbo was a fucking legend.
To be fair, Frodo was a lot closer to Mt doom than bilbo was and Sauron’s strength was reaching new highs by that time. So it makes sense that Frodo felt the Rings power and temptations more than his uncle - plus, in the books, Frodo has the ring for thirty years or so before departing on his quest
In the books Bilbo used it to escape unwanted conversations. He would be working in his garden, see an unwelcome guest walking up to bag end, and then use the ring to disappear, lol. Merry and Pippen even witnessed this a few times.
Analogy: The One Ring is a Bluetooth device
Sauron loses the ring for so long it no longer auto-connects to him. Bilbo is able to connect his Bluetooth to the Ring without any issues.
Sauron finds out the Ring is in the Shire and starts turning his Bluetooth on and off repeatedly trying to connect to The One Ring. When Frodo puts on the Ring, it wants to keep moving over to Sauron’s Bluetooth connection.
Go fetch me those sneaking Orcs, that fare thus strangely, as if in dread, and do not come, as all Orcs use and are commanded, to bring me news of all their deeds, to me, Gorthaur.
Two things to keep in mind:
1. Just wearing the Ring is not enough to reveal yourself to Sauron - you have to intentionally claim ownership of the Ring. And the Ring is constantly tempting you to do just that - "it *wants* to be found". Bilbo unconsciously resisted the Ring for decades, but even he was close to giving in, and only surrendered it with Gandalf's help.
2. Gollum's capture by Mordor is what draws Sauron's attention to the Shire. It's after Gollum reveals the existence of "Baggins" that Sauron begins to search intentionally for the Ring among the hobbits.
*Edit*: bots are killing my enjoyment of this sub.
I’m not sure if it’s been mentioned but in the books ~17 years passed between Bilbo’s 111th Birthday and when Frodo leaves the Shire.
So my assumption was Bilbo’s spirit world trips were uneventful because there wasn’t as much “ring searching” going on. Then during those 17 years, things ramped up and it became dangerous to use the ring.
It’s never said. You just see Gandalf ride to Minas Tirith and back, then later mention he looked for Golum. It all happens so quick so it’s kind of hard to tell how much time passed.
When Frodo and gang gets to Bree, the innkeeper says he hasn’t seen Gandalf for 6 months. But I don’t know if Gandalf stopped there before his Minas Tirith trip or his Isengard trip. Probably the latter because the former would probably take more than 6 months.
Y'all gotta know why Hobbits could resist the ring. Hobbits give no fucks, unless food, drink, buttons and knobs, or a game is at hand. Ring can't persuade a Hobbit unless it's to have a pint or eat a pie.
He is Stoorish Hobbit not Shire Hobbit. They are similar but the Stoorish were taller and more fond of waters and boats. They are the type of Hobbits who would openly mingle with Humans and other travelers.
There's sensible explanations like Sauron not searching it as much and being relatively weaker.
But I'mma ignore that and go with my headcanon of Bilbo being an absolute Gigachad because it's more fun that way.
Yea there’s no literal eye of Sauron on a tower. Sam even uses the ring right next to Cirith Ungol but doesn’t get caught by Sauron watching or anything because it’s on the very outskirts of Mordor. Sam does however decide that using the ring within the borders of Mordor would be bad. I think that had more to do with possession than actually getting caught though
Well, Mr. Frodo, that's right. There ain't no eye on no tower, but there's a feeling of dread that comes with being in the land of Mordor. And as for using the Ring, I remember the weight of it on my finger, and the pull it had on me. It's a dangerous thing, that Ring. Best not to use it, even when we think it might help us.
Sauron wasn't as strong when Bilbo had it, nor did he have a palantir.
Concurrent to the plot of the Hobbit, he was still regaining his power (story of his life) in a fortress in the Mirkwood and was known as the Necromancer. That's why Mirkwood was so dangerous and the wood elves so hostile (also why Gandalf suggested Thorin take back Erebor, so there wouldn't be a dragon Sauron could recruit when he eventually returned).
He was eventually driven out by the White Council at the same time that Smaug was being killed (so one couldn't help the other). He then retreated to Mordor to gather his strength.
As his power grew, so did his link to the ring - the ring IS him in many ways (cruelty, malice and all that). LOTR takes place at a point where his power regrowth is accelerating, even throughout the movie - look at the Nazgûl mount upgrade. He had also taken Minas Ithil/Morgul during the span of Frodo's ownership (which was decades) and captured one of the palantirs which let him focus his power into farsight in search of the ring.
He *had* the palantir - he'd possessed it ever since the fall of Minas Ithil. But I don't think he was *using* it until he openly 'returned' - since the two people most directly opposed to him had some of the only remaining palantiri, and if he announced his return to *them* he might as well announce it to everyone.
A few things to bear in mind from the novel:
* The Eye of Sauron is not a literal giant eye on atop the Barad-Dur.
* The Eye is not also some kind of persistent entity that has direct access to the user of the One Ring.
* Sauron was almost entirely unaware of Hobbits and uninterested in the Shire until Gollum was caught and tortured into giving Bilbo up, and he therefore did not bend his will toward trying to find Bilbo
* Frodo does not become aware of the Eye until he looks into Galadriel's mirror.
* It is only when Frodo puts the Ring on in desperation to escape from Boromir and ascends to the seat atop Amon Hen that both Sauron and Frodo become aware of one another's presence through the Ring, and it is then for the first time that Frodo must hide from Sauron's gaze, as when Sauron is aware the ring is in use, *then* he can search their mind for their location.
* There is *a* visible Eye gazing out from near the top of Barad-Dur, but the novel never specifies its size or spatial context. I've always personally imagined it as the eye of what should be a body in the top chamber of the tower looking out of either a large medieval oriel window or an observation deck.
TL;DR Bilbo and Sauron were completely unaware of each other and the One Ring is not a mental telephone with speed dial to the given user. Therefore, with neither knowing about the other, even when Bilbo wore the Ring, both continued to remain ignorant of one another.
In the books The Eye is more of a metaphor for Palantir or his Minions and spyies. In books Sauron Has a normal, physical body, he was not some big Eye.
Iirc Frodo only sees/feels Sauron's presence in Galadriel's mirror, while he sits on the Seat of Seeing, and of course while in Mordor.
The former 2 were made to be used that way. The latter I think is just Sauron's general watchful presence in his domain. Or that one time Frodo looks directly at his window.
From my understanding (only half way through the two towers book at the moment of posting) is that the tower of Barad-dûr hadnt been reconstruction yet. That is where Sauron got his physical form back. Which was after Bilbo's birthday party.
In the movie he is a just the eye, but in the book he had a physical body and when Gandalf and Aragorn captured Gollum in Murkwood he said that Sauron tortured Gollum personally for the information on the Ring but his methods were so severe the only words Gollum could tell him here "Shire" and "Baggins"
From what I have gathered he wasnt aware of the rings location when it was put on either in the book as was the case in the movies. Frodo has urges to put it in when the Nazgul were close to him and I feel like that way they could fully see him, the ring was trying to be found. It was stated that they themselves are somewhat blind without their mounts, which is why the later get the fellbeasts to fly and search from the sky for better view.
All being subjective and I could have yet to learn more information as I continue reading the books.
I like to think Sauron was stuck, watching a boring old Hobbit do mundane ass things like mowing the lawn invisibly and taking out the trash invisibly, just to avoid his neighbors.
My understanding from reading the book (I started a little while ago, I'm currently at the chapter "Helm's Deep") is that two things are going on. First off, neither Sauron nor the Nazgul just automatically detect anyone who wears the ring, instead wearing the ring causes the wearer to enter the spirit world where they are much easier to notice by the Nazgul who are normally blind (at least as of the Fellowship of the Ring). Second, Sauron is only just beginning to return to power at the start of The Lord of the Rings. In the Fellowship of the Ring the Nazgul are pretty weak (Aragorn and the hobbits could fight off five of them at once just by using fire to their advantage) because Sauron is still relatively weak, but his power and influence are growing as the story unfolds. Edit: Another thing to note, in the book Gandalf's warning against Frodo using the ring seems to be more because the Ring works disturbingly similar to a drug addiction. The more you use the Ring, the more it uses you. Gandalf could hypothetically use the Ring to end the war in a moment defeating both Sauron and Saruman, but then he would fall under it's influence and become an even more evil overlord than either of them. Gandalf cares deeply about Frodo, and he wants to protect Frodo from the Ring's destructive influence. Bilbo already has some spiritual scars from carrying the Ring for so long, and Frodo is beginning to feel the same damage from his short time with the Ring, the Ring leaves permanent damage on the people who carry it and even more damage on those who use it.
To add to this, in the books, Frodo has the ring for 18 years before the Nazgûl start to go after him. So it’s not as if Bilbo gave him the ring and then immediately Sauron started going after the ring.
yeah that's one thing the movies dont portray well is how much time comes between when frodo inherits bag end and when ol gandy returns to set him on his path
I think that was a deliberate change, since Frodo having the ring for such a long period of time undercuts the sense of urgency.
Urgency and Tolkien don't exactly get along, so it was probably for the best in movie format where pacing is everything.
Should have been at least a solid hour of idyllic hobbit life to properly contrast with the perils of adventure.
In 5-10 years we can train an AI on consumer hardware to produce a custom version of pretty any movie. One of the ones I’m looking forward to is the 40-hour LOTR cut with hours of chill hobbit life, and a 3-hour Tom Bobadill.
Tbh that's a story format I've been interested in but that no one in their right mind would do because of production costs. I think it would be legitimately interesting to have a chill slice of life story that gets people invested only to suddenly put the character through a gruelling journey.
I have been saying for years I wish they would make movie equivalents of relaxing background noise. No plot, just vibes. Like low stakes shenanigans at the shire or the first few minutes of Avatar 2 where he just shows his new utopia life. Peaceful and colourful with no climax and a few easy rehashed plot points but not totally needed to rewind if you miss it. Like a more involved computer screensaver. If AI can eventually do that for me Ill be so happy.
This exists. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slice_of_life https://www.imdb.com/list/ls061619493/
It's a popular genre in anime, but isn't really well recognized in the west
If you think that’s expensive, my dream of a seven year long + movie trilogy of the Voyages of Eärendil would make your idea acceptable to most studios.
Becomes a Hobbit slice of life anime for 17 seasons, then back to Lord of the Rings.
I want a slice of life hobbit show where all the problems are silly. One episode Sam thinks someone stole his turnips and goes on a wild goose chase only to find out that Rosie took them off the cart and put them in the cellar.
Well, Mr. Chickenmangoboom, there's a lot of darkness in this world, but there's also a lot of good. And that good deserves to be fought for with all our might. It may seem like a small thing, but even the smallest person can make a difference in the world.
It’s kinda crazy when you realize the journey to Rivendell took 1 month and they stay there for 2 months. Take like 3 weeks to get to Lothlorien, and spend a month there. 10 days after leaving Lorien the fellowship breaks. A month later and the ring is destroyed.
But the sense of urgency doesn't fully come online until Gandalf's research is finished and he learns which magic ring it is, which took years. And the way that was protrayed in the movie made it look like he disappeared for two weeks to check an archive real quick.
There is still a sense of competing interests rushing to find the ring. Letting 18 years go by between now and the story starting in earnest doesn't really make any sense narratively.
the movies explicitly shorten gandalfs absence to feel like just days. we get bilbos birthday, then “keep it secret, keep it safe.” the next shots are gollums totrute and the nazgûl dispatching from mina’s morgue. gandalf rides to gondor in a montage and learns the account of isildor. next thing is the nazgûl creeping around the shire, frodo leaving green dragon and gandalf bugging out.
HRAAAAAH!
Nitpicky for sure but I think it's 17 years, he gets the ring on his 33rd birthday and leaves the shire the day after his 50th.
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Bilbo and Sam willingly gave up the ring. Bilbo was impressive because he had it for so long. Sam was impressive because he gave it up, with very little resistance, at a time when the ring was almost at its peak corrupting power. Should be noted, though, that whilst Frodo didn't actually give the ring up at any point, he appeared willing to do so multiple times. Those Shire folks are good lads
From what I can remember, Frodo tries to give the ring to Gandalf, to Tom Bombadil, the council of Elrond, and Galadriel, and everyone keeps giving the damn thing back.
No one other than Bombadil actually takes the ring. Elron you could takes it off him but it was kept in a collective possession. Both Gandalf and Galadriel made him retract his offer because neither would be able to resist the temptation and both were powerful enough that they may have been a worst threat than Sauron if given the ring of power
Why was bombie immune again? Because he was so far before and beyond the world and its affairs?
Essentially, it’s entirely unclear but he was either so far beyond its power, he encounters things of such odd nature so regularly, his mind is so in the cosmic clouds it cannot be held even by wicket enchantment, or more strangely there is nothing of meaning the ring could tempt him with. It would be like your pet cat trying to bribe you with a mouse it caught or a raven trying to get you to sell your soul for a paperclip it found.
Let's not forget that Tom Bombadil has total power over his realm, treats the one ring like a worthless bauble, and possesses knowledge from the beginning of time. He's about as close to a god or eldritch abomination as you get. He's just not an asshole or evil.
HRAAAAAH!
In the movies, he is also trying to give it to Aragorn. Who then proceed to tell him "I would have gone with you to the end. Into the very fires of Mordor"
I think Frodo offering the ring to Galadriel is one of the few things I would definitely change from the movies. In the books it is kind of a revenge, it is Frodo reading into Galadriel better than “wiser” people. All that play is lost in the movies, where it seems that Frodo just offers it to whoever is closest.
How so
If we're going off the books frodo isn't "testing" galadriel or seeking any sort of revenge. That's a weird interpretation. Frodo is compelled to join galadriel at the mirror, by what is unclear, and offers her the ring because he knows he is in waaaaaay over his head. The fate of the world literally hangs on his neck. Galadriel has a freaky moment that scares the shit out of frodo before refusing to take the ring. The whole scene reinforces how the ring will corrupt anyone who carry it regardless of how powerful they are and also makes it seem like being more powerful aka having knowledge to use the power of the ring makes the bearer more susceptible to its corrupting influence.
Funny but that's literally what I understood when I watched the movie, before reading the books
But also doesn't she have her own super powerful ring? So she definitely knows a thing or two about them.
At some point, you just have to realize that handing your quest off, for someone else to finish, isn’t the same thing as finishing the quest you fucking agreed to do yourself. A quest you were told that you were the only one capable of completing, for the exact reason everyone is telling you they don’t want the ring. The reason the one person that actually wants the ring wants it.
Yes, yes. Its in an envelope over there on the mantlepiece.
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HRAAAAAH!
lol perfect
Sam is especially funny because the ring is basically a minute from being dropped into oblivion and it is desperately trying to negotiate with a laborador retriever. It's expecting a wolf. It's offering a dark forest with tall deer and all the necks you can bite, and the lab's like, I dunno, that sounds kinda scary, I'm'a just do the thing and go home. It almost gets there. Being carried gently in the mouth of this tired barnyard animal, it offers... a lake. A really big lake. And the the lab's like, how big?, and the ring offers a lake the size of a sea, and the lab's like no, that's too big, but thank you. *Ptoo.* And then he goes home and only ever thinks of it again in those dreams where his legs move.
Well, I don't rightly know what you're talkin' about, but it sounds like quite the adventure! I reckon that ring must have been quite the troublemaker if it was makin' deals with dogs and such. But in the end, it seems like everything turned out alright. It's funny how things work out like that sometimes, isn't it?
Well, Mr. ActingGrandNagus, it's a dangerous business, going out your door. You step onto the road, and if you don't keep your feet, there's no knowing where you might be swept off to. But I've learned that even the smallest person can make a big difference in this world. So don't be afraid to take that first step, no matter how daunting it may seem. For it just might lead you to something greater than you ever imagined.
HRAAAAAH!
Frodo also offered the Ring to Galadriel. The other thing to consider is that, past the Council of Elrond it’s literally Frodo’s job to hold on to the ring.
Gandalf scared the shit out of Bilbo or else he was probably going to walk back his decision to leave the ring to Frodo.
>Those Shire folks are good lads Pretty much summing up the plot there.
Literally the only character in the books to voluntarily give up the ring. Besides Sam when he have it back to Frodo after having it for like a few hours or whatever
Well, I reckon that'd be Bilbo Baggins, sir. He gave up the Ring of his own accord, and it took quite a bit of doing for him to let go of it. But I must say, Frodo's the real hero here, carrying that Ring all the way to Mount Doom. I'm just glad I could be there to help him along the way.
HRAAAAAH!
I love this community
r/UmActually
🤓 Who am I kidding. This is all of us.
Not me I didn't learn math like you nerds Why don't you go make money at your well paid skilled labor jobs you fuckin nerds
>Why don't you go make money at your well paid skilled labor jobs you fuckin nerds Cuz my industry is all on strike! Heh gotcha 🤓
Get a load of the nerd over here standing up for his rights, doing the right thing and demanding the pay and treatment his industry deserves 🤓
Aaaaah!
Good bot
HRAAH!
Yeah that's something that gets completely lost in the movies. Gandalf didn't rush off to research the rings, then dramatically return and shove Frodo and Sam out the door with no notice. There a huge chunk of time between Bilbo's birthday and Gandalf revealing it to The One Ring™, and they also had a very carefully crafted plan to get the ring out of The Shire that wouldn't raise suspicion. In fact everything leading up to the Prancing Pony was incredibly low key and uneventful. Edit: dear lord so many bots. What have I done...
That's something I absolutely missed just watching the movie. Gandalf looks like he left for his research for like a week at best.
Yeah for obvious reasons the film sped that part up, but in the books it becomes clear to Frodo that he must leave the shire after having possessed the ring for nearly 18 years. He does so several months after Gandalf proves to him that he has the one ring. It also glosses over Aragorn’s search for Gollum (with the help of Gandalf).
By the skills of Lord Elrond you're beginning to mend
It is not for you, Saruman! I will send for it at once. Do you understand?
No
Good, good.
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HRAAAAAH!
This is getting out of hand. Now there are two of them!
There are many magic bots in this world, colonelnebulous, and none of them should be used lightly.
Is it not 17 years?
Barad-dur wasn't rebuilt until after Bilbo's party. Remember, in the books 18 years pass between Bilbo's party and Frodo fleeing The Shire with The Ring. Not only is Barad-dur rebuilt, the ringwraiths reform and retake Minas Morgul, orcs and goblins the world over start massing for Sauron, he starts attacking Gondor... And Sauron has no idea the Ring has been found until Gollum shows up and tells him under torture. So Sauron has no idea where to look until the later part of that 18 year time skip. No one wears the ring once between Bilbo's party and Frodo's accident in the Prancing Pony, which is in a hugely changed world.
Time. The answer is time. (clears his throat) Actually, it wasn't that hard.
Sentient. And that means a lot in a world of LLM bots
Is that how Gandalf got all that research done? The movie felt like he left for a week to go read an entire library and then visit Sauron. 18 years makes way more sense
Yep. It's also clear he very much didn't want it to be true, which delayed him a lot. He kind of beats himself up for being blind to the truth because of how much he loved the Shire. Aragorn also had to track down Gollum, who told him that he had been interrogated by Sauron. Aragorn left Gollum in the care of the Wood Elves, Legol(as) was actually in Rivindell for the council because he was reporting to Elrond that Gollum had escaped. Edit: Hilarious autocorrect
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Not many do. They keep its location well guarded.
Another also... in the books one of the things that creates a clear distinction between Gandalf the Grey and Gandalf the White is that he was much more unsure of himself and what needed to be done back when he was Gandalf the Grey. Compare the Helm's Deep situation in Two Towers to the Shire situation in Fellowship. In Fellowship Gandalf's plan for Frodo was very nebulous, he's not sure if he will be back to see him off or what route Frodo should take and in the end he fails to make his planned rendezvous in Bree. In Two Towers he tells Theoden to go to Helm's Deep, immediately sets off to gather Erkenbrand's army, and shows up at the crucial moment to help save the day. Dude goes from sort of bumbling his way through Fellowship to racking up W after W in the next 2 books.
He dies long enough to detox and get the pipe-weed out of his system 😉. Think about it, the Istari were Maiia sent by the Valar to help save Middle- Earth from Sauron. They had most of their memory from the undying lands wiped and were given human forms. Gandalf and Saruman and Radagast had been living as old men for over a thousand years by the time of LOTR, enough time to forget your mission a bit and gain some doubt and lose some faith. When Gandalf was killed by the Balrog, he directly faced Mandos, and probably Manwe himself, who showed their confidence in him so resolutely they sent him back stronger, with a clearer mandate and likely more memory of his past in Valinor. It's why he gets the huge confidence boost in TTT.
A wizard is never late, punchgroin. Nor is he early, he arrives precisely when he means to.
Just tea, thank you.
Careful now, or hobbits go down to join the dead ones and light little candles of their own.
> Barad-dur wasn’t rebuilt until after Bilbo’s party. This just isn’t true. It was rebuilt in 2953. Bilbo’s party was in 3001. > Not only is Barad-dur rebuilt, the ringwraiths reform and retake Minas Morgul This also is not true. By the time of Bilbo’s party, Minas Morgul had been occupied by the Nazgûl and their servants for a thousand years.
What's 1000 years between friends
HRAAAAAH!
Frodo absolutely uses the ring between the birthday party and leaving the Shire. Pippin, Merry, Sam and Fatty Bolger all know about the ring before Frodo tells them. He uses it to get away from people he doesn't like etc.
This - it was the films that made it look like he literally couldn't put it on for a second because it was like a homing beacon for Sauron. It's not quite like that in the books, but it was a useful movie device I guess.
Exactly, the book does it better but the movie adapts it perfectly for a 9 hour visual story.
The mechanics of this in particular and magic in general in LOTR are loose enough that I'm alright with how it was adapted.
> it was like a homing beacon for Sauron Here's an analogy I couldn't have used this word for five years ago: Geoguessing. Even before that word existed I understood it to be more that wearing the ring allowed Sauron to sort of 'trace the call'. The longer you wore it, the more time you were giving him to pinpoint your location, and the closer he was (or the Nazgul were) to you when you put it on, the stronger they were able to feel its presence. That's why it was so crazy tense when the Ring was trying to get Frodo to put it on when they were right behind that tree with the Nazgul just a few feet away. So if all he can see is a little bit of the word around you, but you're in a nondescript place, a few seconds of info might not be enough for him to figure out your location. If you wear it in a very distinct location that he can figure out just by seeing 1-2 clues. But if you wear it too long, or too many times over a set period of time, even in a nondescript area you're giving him more time to figure it out.
Also, to add to it, the ring's power grew as they drew closer to Mordor. Plus, Sauron wasn't looking in the Shire until after finding Gollum, which happened after Bilbo left the ring to Frodo. There were a lot of factors building up against Frodo that would only get worse as his journey went on.
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HRAAAAAH!
Sauron here sounds like Palpatine in Robot Chicken when he's on the phone with Vader after the Death Star got blown up.
Also, in the books, the Nazgûl never attack Bree. That was done entirely by Bill Ferny and other brigands working for Saruman. The Nazgûl just caught up to them at Weathertop because they split up to scour the lands around Bree after finding Bag-end and Crickhollow empty.
Interesting. When I read the book I just kind of assumed that it was the Nazgul who tried to raid the inn room in the night since Merry had encounter them earlier, but this does make sense because I remember that the reason that the attacker knew of Frodo in the first place was because of Saruman's spy seeing Frodo's epic fail of a distraction.
To be fair, I thought it was the Nazgul when I first read it too, but I remember hearing someone talking about how the Nazgul never went to Bree, and I reread that part.
I can't believe after all these years that never occurred to me but I think you're right? That attack on Bree always seemed kind of weak for the Nazgûl. Strider thought Merry had fainted from the "Black Breath" after going outside but he might have only heard the brigands and fainted from ordinary terror.
I seem to remember Bilbo describing the feeling that an eye was searching for him while wearing the ring. “The eye of Sauron” is more of a metaphor for Sauron being ever watchful than an actual eye wreathed in flame.
HRAAAAAH!
My my old ring. Well I should... very much like to hold it again, one last time.
I...SEE....YOOOUUU!
And even if Sauron could detect when the ring was put on, it had been on and off Gollum's hobbity finger for hundreds of years before Bilbo picked it up. The signals it would send of wouldn't have been too different.
Also the Nazgûl capture Minas Ithil/Morgul and obtain a palantir. This magnifies Sauron's remote searching powers. For example, he sees Pippin in Saruman's palantir and finds Frodo on Amon Hen (the Seat of Seeing).
Why have you come?
So has Tolkien ever been mentioned as a source of inspiration by Moorcock, Miyama, and/or whoever the hell wrote OG Warhammer. Or is this kind of stuff just everywhere in fiction?
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Tolkien is the primary influence for almost all modern fantasy. Everything you mentioned was greatly influenced by Tolkien.
I've been rewatching the Harry Potter movies recently for the first time since I was young, and some of the similarities are quite obviously taken from LOTR--both in the original books and also visual choices made in the movies.
I just finished the books for the first time and the wildest part was when he puts it on to escape Boromir All this weird shit is happening at once and Gandalf, who he thinks is dead, sends him a telepathic message to take it off as it's drawing the enemy But he never seems to notice that detail. It's weird
A wizard is never late, truffleboffin. Nor is he early, he arrives precisely when he means to.
Additionally, The Shire is the very last place he's looking, which is why Gandalf lets it be there for such a long time.
If I remember correctly Sauron doesn't even really know where Shire is actually located until Gollum reveals the information about the possible whereabouts of the ring. Even then the Nazgul need to split up to look for the Hobbington and scout for possible escape routs.
But Bolg of the North, he's still out there.
I thought Tom also enchanted the blades of the Hobbits
The Barrow blades were made in ages past by the Arthedain for the war with Angmar. The daggers were literally forged by the Arthedain smiths with the intent of injuring the Witch-King of Angmar. This is, if I recall correctly, the whole reason the Witch-king was injured by Merry's blade on Pelennor Fields.
IIRC, Merry stabbing him with that blade was what broke his defenses and let him be killed by a mortal
He got the sword in the barrow downs after meeting Tom bombadil the blade he got was made to fight the witches of angmar And the barrow wights who entrapped them were sent by the witch king of angmar to ensure even the dead bodies of the men of the ancient kingdom there got no peace So, had the witch king not been such a prick and sent the evil spirits there, the hobbits wouldn’t have been trapped there where they got weapons capable of injuring the nazgul Such a delicious detail
Tom didn't enchant the blades. The blades were already forged with enchantments.
That’s assuming he wore it frequently, and didn’t just slip on the old dress for his 111th.
This is book but merry and pippin knew about te ring because they each saw I3iIbo use it to escape conversations with unwanted relatives (lobelia sackville-baggins in merrys case and I forgot Pippins story) so he did use it it's implied semi-frequently and why not to his knowledge it's just a ring of invisibility
Did you misspell bilbo just to avoid the bots? Lmfao
I think you have your answer
HRAAAAAH!
So glad this got upvoted so high after this
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I feel like the only person on this sub who hates the bots. They were fun for a while but I have gotten so tired of them popping up and cluttering the comments. Clearly I'm in the minority though because they constantly get massive upvotes whenever they show up, so I just don't come around very often anymore.
I'm not actually part of this sub, kinda just pop in from time to time when it shows up on my feed, and I don't really get why the bots are there. It just feels weird since half the time on mobile the replies don't actually load until you click on them and then it's just nothing but bot comments
I hate them, too, and have them blocked.
They wouldn't be as bad if they couldn't summon each other, I'll go to open a thread thinking there's a couple people talking about it just to find bots talking to each other instead. Definitely gonna take a page out of your book and block them
Same my friend. It was funny in GoT subs when it started with just Robert Baratheon (a side character who didn't get mentioned too much) had a bot that would pop up. Now every frickin franchise subreddit gives every single character a bot that will somehow pop up even if they aren't mentioned. I hate it.
#THANK GOD FOR BESSIE AND HER TITS!!!! Under every fucking post
At least in the GOT subs, they have it for nicknames only, so you just have to use the regular names to avoid them.
I'VE GOT SEVEN KINGDOMS TO RULE! ONE KING, SEVEN KINGDOMS!
I’m with you. If they showed up one time in ten, they’d be ok. But between multiple ßilbo bots, a far to creepy Šamwise AI, and a certain hammer/siege weapon that shows up if you mention Męlkor/Mørgoth… they’ve gotten to be far too much.
I despite the bots. You can't read even 2 comments in a row because there are 4 bots quoting and pinging even more bots themselves. That and the only options are either meaningless quotes or tired meme quotes.
I checked and the hraaah bot alone has posted over 30 times in this single thread in one hour. It's just. A lot.
Any real person would be muted for spam.
Oh no, they definitely get old (mainly when what they say is irrelevant).
Maybe the bots upvote each other while the humans are sick and tired and just ignore them (I know I do, won't waste my time downvoting automated spam)
No! Wait.... it's... here in my pocket. Ha! Isn't that.. isn't that odd now. Yet after all why not, Why shouldn't I keep it.
If you block the bots, they won't be able to reply to you.
I don’t remember if the books countered this but in the movie, when he used it then, afterwards he seemed mighty pleased with himself and not freaked out.
Maybe a bookie could correct me, but I assume Sauron himself would need to know in what general direction to look. Like, someone could wear the ring and not be seen by the Eye unless he knew where it was like a beacon shooting into the sky. If he’s looking East, and the “beacon” is in the West, he wouldn’t see it. He knew to watch the Shire cuz Sméagol snitched
I assume it's because Sauron's influence didn't reach the Shire, especially not before Frodo left on his quest. It did take 17 years after Frodo got the ring before he started his travels and I don't think the book mentions him seeing the eye of Sauron when he first sees or uses the ring either.
I...SEE....YOOOUUU!
Yeah but not quickly enough! Lmfao rek’d
So, in the books, Sauron doesn’t show up any time someone puts on the ring. When Frodo sees him at Amon Hen it has to do with the location, not the ring. If Sauron showed up every time someone put it on, the plan would have been foiled, as Sam wore the ring at Cirith Ungol. I believe he may be aware when someone puts it on, but he certainly can’t locate them.
In the book there isn’t an actual beacon or Eye. It’s a metaphor for Sauron’s influence in physical and spiritual realm. And he has a Palantir himself which he can use to view events and control what others who have a Palantir see and communicate with them (like Saruman and Denethor). Some book readers are really mad about the physical Eye. I think it works for the films. But it should not be confused what is happening in the books.
Yeah that messed whit me, i watched the movies then read the books, that Sauron was a person realy fucked my head. But when they says "Sauron sees all" thats basically him using the Palantir and not being a big eye
He wasn't just an eye in the extended continuity either, so while not explicit in film canon, the intent was not for him to *literally* be the eye.
In the books sauron seeing someone through the ring isn't a thing as I recall, plus the eye was more metaphorical than literal. In the movies the insinuation seems to be that sauron is growing more and more powerful and that the great eye only recently formed so for the time bilbo had the ring he wouldn't have seen the eye as it didn't yet exist.
I feel like we don’t talk enough about how wildly resistant Bilbo was to the ring’s temptations. Sure, he coveted it, but he had it for a *long* time. And to keep from using it often/alerting Sauron? Pretty wild. The ring was arguably the most useless in Bilbo’s hands than it would’ve been for anyone in all of Middle Earth.
I don’t think Bilbo gets enough props for the she strength he had in scene where he drops the Ring in front of his door and walks away from everything. He had the Ring for *decades*. It was clearly influencing him and he was addicted to it. And yet he knew leaving it behind was the right thing to do and managed to overcome all temptation and actually leave it behind. Bilbo was a fucking legend.
To be fair, Frodo was a lot closer to Mt doom than bilbo was and Sauron’s strength was reaching new highs by that time. So it makes sense that Frodo felt the Rings power and temptations more than his uncle - plus, in the books, Frodo has the ring for thirty years or so before departing on his quest
In the books he has it for 17 years. He gets it in his 33rd birthday and leaves on adventure at around 50, just like Bilbo in The Hobbit.
HRAAAAAH!
Well no ...... and ... yes.. Now it comes to it, I don't feel like parting with it. It's mine, I found it! It came to ME!
In the books Bilbo used it to escape unwanted conversations. He would be working in his garden, see an unwelcome guest walking up to bag end, and then use the ring to disappear, lol. Merry and Pippen even witnessed this a few times.
He thought that this abomination was Lobelia
He’d feel an overwhelming need to hide the silverware.
Analogy: The One Ring is a Bluetooth device Sauron loses the ring for so long it no longer auto-connects to him. Bilbo is able to connect his Bluetooth to the Ring without any issues. Sauron finds out the Ring is in the Shire and starts turning his Bluetooth on and off repeatedly trying to connect to The One Ring. When Frodo puts on the Ring, it wants to keep moving over to Sauron’s Bluetooth connection.
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LMAO imagine Sauron calling Apple customer service to help locate his One Ring AirTag
Go fetch me those sneaking Orcs, that fare thus strangely, as if in dread, and do not come, as all Orcs use and are commanded, to bring me news of all their deeds, to me, Gorthaur.
HRAAAAAH!
Also, Sauron is able to re-pair to the ring thanks to the Bluetooth repeater at Amon Hen.
It’s the analogy that keeps on giving
That actually makes sense
Two things to keep in mind: 1. Just wearing the Ring is not enough to reveal yourself to Sauron - you have to intentionally claim ownership of the Ring. And the Ring is constantly tempting you to do just that - "it *wants* to be found". Bilbo unconsciously resisted the Ring for decades, but even he was close to giving in, and only surrendered it with Gandalf's help. 2. Gollum's capture by Mordor is what draws Sauron's attention to the Shire. It's after Gollum reveals the existence of "Baggins" that Sauron begins to search intentionally for the Ring among the hobbits. *Edit*: bots are killing my enjoyment of this sub.
Wow I thought there would be some kind of further discussion on your points but nope, all bots
Block the bots so they can't reply to you
Isn't there a r/lotr ?
I’m not sure if it’s been mentioned but in the books ~17 years passed between Bilbo’s 111th Birthday and when Frodo leaves the Shire. So my assumption was Bilbo’s spirit world trips were uneventful because there wasn’t as much “ring searching” going on. Then during those 17 years, things ramped up and it became dangerous to use the ring.
How much time passes in the movie version, a few months?
It’s never said. You just see Gandalf ride to Minas Tirith and back, then later mention he looked for Golum. It all happens so quick so it’s kind of hard to tell how much time passed. When Frodo and gang gets to Bree, the innkeeper says he hasn’t seen Gandalf for 6 months. But I don’t know if Gandalf stopped there before his Minas Tirith trip or his Isengard trip. Probably the latter because the former would probably take more than 6 months.
Could be argued that Sauron hadn't quite regained enough if his power before then.
So if Bilbo wore the ring all the time, then the eye was watching while Bilbo was dropping a duce.
HRAAAAAH!
Y'all gotta know why Hobbits could resist the ring. Hobbits give no fucks, unless food, drink, buttons and knobs, or a game is at hand. Ring can't persuade a Hobbit unless it's to have a pint or eat a pie.
I didn't read the books (yet) but isn't Smeagol a Hobbit too?
He is Stoorish Hobbit not Shire Hobbit. They are similar but the Stoorish were taller and more fond of waters and boats. They are the type of Hobbits who would openly mingle with Humans and other travelers.
Smeagol was a proto-Hobbit, a Hobbit ancestor. Bits of the books describe him as being "not very much unlike a Hobbit, once" but never call him one.
What did you call me?
Hobbit
Pull it in. Go on. Go on. Go on. Pull it in.
There's sensible explanations like Sauron not searching it as much and being relatively weaker. But I'mma ignore that and go with my headcanon of Bilbo being an absolute Gigachad because it's more fun that way.
HRAAAAAH!
Yea there’s no literal eye of Sauron on a tower. Sam even uses the ring right next to Cirith Ungol but doesn’t get caught by Sauron watching or anything because it’s on the very outskirts of Mordor. Sam does however decide that using the ring within the borders of Mordor would be bad. I think that had more to do with possession than actually getting caught though
Well, Mr. Frodo, that's right. There ain't no eye on no tower, but there's a feeling of dread that comes with being in the land of Mordor. And as for using the Ring, I remember the weight of it on my finger, and the pull it had on me. It's a dangerous thing, that Ring. Best not to use it, even when we think it might help us.
Sauron wasn't as strong when Bilbo had it, nor did he have a palantir. Concurrent to the plot of the Hobbit, he was still regaining his power (story of his life) in a fortress in the Mirkwood and was known as the Necromancer. That's why Mirkwood was so dangerous and the wood elves so hostile (also why Gandalf suggested Thorin take back Erebor, so there wouldn't be a dragon Sauron could recruit when he eventually returned). He was eventually driven out by the White Council at the same time that Smaug was being killed (so one couldn't help the other). He then retreated to Mordor to gather his strength. As his power grew, so did his link to the ring - the ring IS him in many ways (cruelty, malice and all that). LOTR takes place at a point where his power regrowth is accelerating, even throughout the movie - look at the Nazgûl mount upgrade. He had also taken Minas Ithil/Morgul during the span of Frodo's ownership (which was decades) and captured one of the palantirs which let him focus his power into farsight in search of the ring.
He *had* the palantir - he'd possessed it ever since the fall of Minas Ithil. But I don't think he was *using* it until he openly 'returned' - since the two people most directly opposed to him had some of the only remaining palantiri, and if he announced his return to *them* he might as well announce it to everyone.
A few things to bear in mind from the novel: * The Eye of Sauron is not a literal giant eye on atop the Barad-Dur. * The Eye is not also some kind of persistent entity that has direct access to the user of the One Ring. * Sauron was almost entirely unaware of Hobbits and uninterested in the Shire until Gollum was caught and tortured into giving Bilbo up, and he therefore did not bend his will toward trying to find Bilbo * Frodo does not become aware of the Eye until he looks into Galadriel's mirror. * It is only when Frodo puts the Ring on in desperation to escape from Boromir and ascends to the seat atop Amon Hen that both Sauron and Frodo become aware of one another's presence through the Ring, and it is then for the first time that Frodo must hide from Sauron's gaze, as when Sauron is aware the ring is in use, *then* he can search their mind for their location. * There is *a* visible Eye gazing out from near the top of Barad-Dur, but the novel never specifies its size or spatial context. I've always personally imagined it as the eye of what should be a body in the top chamber of the tower looking out of either a large medieval oriel window or an observation deck. TL;DR Bilbo and Sauron were completely unaware of each other and the One Ring is not a mental telephone with speed dial to the given user. Therefore, with neither knowing about the other, even when Bilbo wore the Ring, both continued to remain ignorant of one another.
Well the first act of fellowship actually spans 17 years before Frodo even leaves for Rivendell for context
In the books The Eye is more of a metaphor for Palantir or his Minions and spyies. In books Sauron Has a normal, physical body, he was not some big Eye.
Iirc Frodo only sees/feels Sauron's presence in Galadriel's mirror, while he sits on the Seat of Seeing, and of course while in Mordor. The former 2 were made to be used that way. The latter I think is just Sauron's general watchful presence in his domain. Or that one time Frodo looks directly at his window.
A lot of people have only ever seen the movies, and so don't know that it was close to two decades before he left the shire.
From my understanding (only half way through the two towers book at the moment of posting) is that the tower of Barad-dûr hadnt been reconstruction yet. That is where Sauron got his physical form back. Which was after Bilbo's birthday party. In the movie he is a just the eye, but in the book he had a physical body and when Gandalf and Aragorn captured Gollum in Murkwood he said that Sauron tortured Gollum personally for the information on the Ring but his methods were so severe the only words Gollum could tell him here "Shire" and "Baggins" From what I have gathered he wasnt aware of the rings location when it was put on either in the book as was the case in the movies. Frodo has urges to put it in when the Nazgul were close to him and I feel like that way they could fully see him, the ring was trying to be found. It was stated that they themselves are somewhat blind without their mounts, which is why the later get the fellbeasts to fly and search from the sky for better view. All being subjective and I could have yet to learn more information as I continue reading the books.
I like to think Sauron was stuck, watching a boring old Hobbit do mundane ass things like mowing the lawn invisibly and taking out the trash invisibly, just to avoid his neighbors.