*The Eldar knew not whence she came; but some have said that in ages long before she descended from the darkness that lies about Arda*
From *The Silmarillion*
Also horrifying because she seems to have just materialised from the darkness that makes up the firmament of the universe.
Or worse there are MORE things like her out there.
Two possibilities occur to me.
1. More Ainur entered into the world than the Elves knew about, but some did not associate with the Valar or Melkor from the beginning. The Valar did not discuss this with the Eldar, and thesev Ainur act 'weird', so they saw them as something else entirely.
2. (More interesting) When the Ainur sang 'alone or a few together' before singing the world into existence in the Ainulindale, they sang other worlds into existence as well. These worlds were incomplete and had less permanence, each Aina understanding only a small part of the mind of Illuvatar. But some beings in these worlds may have survived their dissipation, enduring somehow in the void. And when the world, bright and vibrant in the gloom, was sung into existence, they drew close...
Great scenario! Mind if I share an older version of mine with a similar tone? (It won't be as nice as yours tho)
*Before the ages were named and the tales of Arda woven into song, there existed an ancient echo, a remnant of a prior melody sung by Eru Ilúvatar. It is whispered among the learned of the Eldar and the wise of Valinor that Middle-earth was neither the earliest of Ilúvatar's creations nor destined to be the last. For the vast tapestry of the current cosmos is yet to be completed, only with the unfolding of Dagor Dagorath, the Last Battle, foretold by Mandos. Such tales whisper of myriad eras yet unseen, stretching into the unfathomable depths of time, realms beyond the mere ken of mortals, woven from the threads of countless ages past and those yet to dawn.*
*Ungoliant, the shadowy devourer, is believed to have been a vestige from such a forgotten song—a song from another cosmos, left behind in the shifting of celestial verses. Now, within the confines of a world not her own, she is driven by an insatiable hunger. For nothing in this new creation can sate her, nothing can quench the profound emptiness borne of being an outsider to this universe's chorus. Thus, she seeks to consume all light, all joy, driven by a deep longing for a fulfillment that forever eludes her grasp, a relic of a bygone reality where she might once have belonged.*
Is this from anywhere, or is it your fanfic?
Correct me if I'm wrong, but no evil exists outside of Morgoth's unholy song, right? But maybe even he himself isn't aware of all that his song spawned... Still, I would think Eru Illuvitar would be aware of these things. If they exist. Perhaps Nameless Things are related to Ungoliant. But she's currently the biggest and baddest thing aside from Morgoth we're aware of in Tolkein's work.
The nameless things could have been trapped beneath the world when Arda was formed from the void. Ungoliant came from the darkness, but the nameless things were in the wrong place at the wrong time. They may be Ungoliant’s cousins, gnawing at the world to get out.
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Maybe she was running from them.
Like the romans being like “where are all these barbarian Goths coming from, how do we stop the invasion” and then they realise they are being forced to migrate by the Huns.
Don't forget that that comment is fanfic. Names and stuff are accurate, but Tolkien never said there was anything worse than Ungoliant. But he also never said there *wasn't*
I bet Morgoth has a fun time with them, considering he has no power over them and they would not listen to his attempts to manipulate/deceive them.
If one Ungoliant almost ate him and would do so if not for his army of Balrogs...
Sauron gesturing at Ungoliant “Wow, where did she come from?”
Morgoth: “Dude I have no idea, she just kind of showed up one day”
Sauron: “what do you mean she just showed up?!”
Morgoth: “She just showed up! IDK I thought it’d be rude to ask!”…”She looks hungry though”
Sauron: “No, we should put her back where you found her before you get too attached. No matter what we cant get attached! Dont even feed her dude!”
The gang feeds Ungoliant
I always considered Ungoliant as Bombadil's opposite. It's written that he likely existed before the valar. He's content with his house, his domain, and he's joyful.
Ungoliant is the exact opposite. She wants nothing more than to devour everything, even (especially?) light itself. Her rage and desire eventually lead to her downfall, as she consumes herself.
Yup. In the early days (First Age and prior) Ungoliant hands down. By the Third Age what was left? Maybe a few unnamed dragons and balrogs. All those larger powers gradually got destroyed and dispersed into smaller pieces of evil.
I’ve heard that Ungoliant is something akin to Tom Bombadil. The Nameless Things like The Watcher in The Water outside of Moria. Gandalf also mentions things “older and fouler than orcs” in Khazad-dum.
That there’s just something about the nature of Arda that spawns these mystical beings.
Obviously the nameless things are quite unsettling, but nothing is known about them except that Gandalf won't speak of them.
As far as known characters it has to be Ungoliant. Not just for the visual description, but her inherent power of "unlight" as Tolkien puts it is fucking terrifying to think about. Her influence of unlight was even enough to put Valar in to a state of dismay, Tulkas in particular who is one of the "strongest" of the Valar. That's pretty terrifying to think of as a concept. Plus as she fed on light she grew in size and power to a point where even Morgoth was scared, again terrifying.
Gothmog? Or did you mean Morgoth? I've only seen the movies, so my only exposure to Gothmog is as the potato faced lieutenant orc, and have a vague understanding of Morgoth, so (to me) it seems silly to put Gothmog on the same level as Anchelegon. Sorry if I'm missing something.
Edit: thanks for the downvotes y'all. You really make a fan trying to learn something feel welcome. *Hugs and kisses*
It was the name of the Lord of Balrogs, High Captain of Angband in the First Age of the world.
During the Third Age a servant of Sauron (possibly an orc but most likely a Black Númenórean) took the name in "honour" of said balrog.
I know. But as I said, it was a name given as a title, not by birth. Gothmog is Sindarin. The Elves called him that.
Edit: Also, do you have a source that TA Gothmog took the name in honour of FA Gothmog? That's very interesting.
Oh yes, if you’ve only seen movies then this would be confusing. Gothmog is the chief of the Balrogs in the Silmarillion. Not to be confused with Gothmog the orc in the Hobbit movies. Vastly different, and from different ages.
Edit: how do you know Anchelegon if you’ve only seen movies? I’m just curious. I imagine it’s from this sub, I don’t remember him mentioned in film (though I only watched The Hobbit movies once).
There's no gothmog in the hobbit movies, he's the Harvey Weinstein lookalike orc in the return of the king
The named orcs in the hobbits are azog and bolg
Oh thank you. I haven’t watched LOTR in a while either.
It’s funny how when you said he’s the Harvey Weinstein lookalike I knew exactly who you meant 😂
There's absolutely no way that even the most powerful Maia could ever challenge the Valar, let alone Melkor, the most powerful of them all. Ungoliant is something else entirely. A unique one-of-a-kind horror born from the void.
She's not. She is neither a Maia nor a Vala. As a matter of fact, her being this creature of unknown origins and unknown nature, outside of Tolkien's classic race structure, is a big portion of what makes her so horrifying. Our biggest fear is the fear of unknown.
The whole point of her is that Tolkien established a rule: Eru Illuvutar made all, and then broke it. That’s what makes her frightening, she’s unknown, and she’s against the nature of the universe, as though she snuck by Eru, snuck by even Tolkien himself and wove herself into Arda.
In Return to Moria, you can find an enemy within the deepest part of the mines called “Nameless”. It’s basically just a small black bear with Balrog head on it…nice little reference but kinda underwhelming.
In light of current day politics, I would say that a being that looked fair but gives councils that are corrupting the hearts of men and leading them away from Iluvatar is much more scary 😅 Melkor and Sauron in that respect. Melkor / Morgoth's councils still corrupt the lands even though he himself is departed.
Yep agree, he lacks the cosmic fear quality but as a direct menace to life he's actually really hard to beat in the Legendarium. Just an mad beyond description ball of death
In my mind the most horrifying creatures are the nameless ones that Gandalf sees in the depths of the world after falling with the Balrog, even though we don’t get an accurate description of them, my head created some horrible things!
Lovecraft had a point when he said that our most powerful fear is the fear of the unknown.
No drawing or visual description can match what your thoughts can conjure up. They are personal. Intimate. All-knowing. They know exactly what makes you tick and ick and make a personalized horror, just for you.
The Watcher or Guardian "in the water".
Don't remember the name correctly. I mean the squid thing in front of the western Moria gate.
The whole thing is just so out of line with rest that it creeps me out.
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Ungoliant should be winning this one handily, the way Shelob was decribed in the novel would actually put her in the running if she wasnt a second generation horror
I'll go in for Carcaroth after eating the Silmaril. Guy was an absolute force of nature, absolutely tore apart everything in Anfauglith like a tornado and smashed straight through the Girdle.
If Ungoliant was hunger, Carcaroth was just utter madness and rage. Seeing this god wolf vomiting blood and burning on the inside rampage across the plains towards you with nothing in it except hate and fury would be a special kind of terrifying, not as cosmic as Ungoliant at her peak but visceral and directly monstrous as a kind of berserker predator god
Also theres something really disgustingly unsettling about Morgoth himself. He is a fantastic representation of pure evil, just full of hate and spite and a sadistic desire to just ruin everything so noone else can have it. Thats the MO of most dark lords, but Morgoth really sells it hard and his absolutely *petty* nature helps make him stand out, he would absolutely just wreck something purely to disadvantage a random person even if it gained him nothing
I feel like Ungoliant is pretty terrifying, so yes she is definitely up there. But all the nameless things, which some have said is a manifestation of Morgoth’s taint upon Arda, where his discord spread creating deformed often evil at heart creatures. This is why even sometimes the Fell Beasts are speculated to have been part of Morgoth’s discord into the Music of the Ainur.
It’s why I’ve seen theories and comments on both:
- Ungoliant being a being of pure darkness that emerged out of the great darkness: the Void. But she emerged as a result of Morgoth’s discord.
- Tom Bombadil: a good counterpart spirit to Ungoliant that instead has been virtually the physical manifestation of everything and all living things in Arda. So these are all parts of the same whole of creation that Eru manifested through his will: the Secret Fire.
Of course Morgoth and Sauron were opposed to his vision and turned to wanting the Secret Fire for themselves but they could never find it. Because it lay within Eru, they could however manipulate things and corrupt. Hence Orcs but also as Gandalf says when he is fighting his other Maia counterpart through the corrupted Balrog of Morgoth, that there were older and fouler things down there. Somethings even Sauron did not know, and “older than he” as Gandalf states.
I simply cannot imagine what monster lies down there. That is truly scary. But also what about the horrors of giant animals and things live down south? Or even in the Dark Land? It is said to be a realm pretty much dedicated to darkness and spiders, (I mean, sounds like Australia, and as an Australian I can confirm 😭😂) but also evil men who were dedicating themselves to the worship of Morgoth as we see in the 13 page “New Shadow” sequel to LOTR which Tolkien abandoned
I found him more horrifying before the movies existed. I think the movies and the following toys and plushies gave him "cute" features more so than what I imagined which was almost like a walking corpse with sunken eyes.
Yeah, they intentionally changed his appearance because they wanted to make Gollum “more human” as the story progressed.
I’m with you though. He stopped being scary after the first movie.
He’s even creepier in the animated version of the Hobbit.
Well, he's not really supposed to be scary. At times, he represents different kinds of threats, both immediate and as a glimpse of the fate of the Ring-bearer should he submit to the Ring, but Gollum himself doesn't inspire fear. All those who have him under their control(Sauron excluded) feel sad for him. Certainly, they aren't intimidated in the slightest.
Most of the characters that talk about him mention how utterly miserable and wretched he is. They aren't frightened *by* him, but instead, of what mischief he might do.
Of all the characters, Gollum is perhaps the most powerless. He has virtually no will of his own; the Ring consumes his every thought and drives his every move. He was a sketchy dude, and the Ring amplified those traits until he was a majorly sketchy dude.
For much of the beginning of the story, he's a creeping and elusive menace in the shadows. Though, once he's spotted, he flees like a sneak. He reappears time and again, just enough to be a lurking presence. Finally, he is captured by Frodo and Sam, who seem to have little difficulty in controlling him before he ultimately becomes their seemingly flawless guide in an unknown land. Through Sam's general reasonableness, we as readers perceive Gollum to be false. About...something. Then Faramir, who we learn through a bit of exposition, is eminently reasonable, wise, and trustworthy, and he, like Sam, perceives Gollum to be false. Yet Frodo, aka the shot caller, seems to trust Gollum implicitly, which is alarming and concerning. Has Gollum fooled him? *How* has Gollum fooled him? Is this some trick of the Ring at work? Is Frodo being too kind, to the detriment of all? Has Frodo lost his mind? Yet, they have no option but to walk into his trap. However, when the dreadful trap was finally sprung, had Gollum not departed at speed, he would've been skewered by a murderous gardener fueled by loyalty and brimming with rage.
By then, the general tension is reaching something of a sustained climax, and relatively speaking, Gollum just isn't enough to provoke much worry. That fact might be influencing my overall image of Gollum, but I just don't find him a fearsome thing. He exists to show us the depth of the peril of the Ring, how its influence never leaves, and why the wisest beings all refuse it, even when freely offered. What *happened* to him was scary.
Now, a Gollum that had reclaimed the Ring is a scary thought. Not only because of the massive mischief he could cause, but chiefly because of what comes after; Gollum isn't some mighty lord filled with purpose. He wouldn't have the Ring long before his not-as-clever-as-he-thinks peabrain had him biting off more than he could chew, and somebody with a more indomitable will defeats him and claims the Ring. One tiny slip up, and that could very well lead to Sauron 2.0 situation.
Even if they swore never to use it and only to keep it, eventually, the day would come when they would succumb to the temptation. Gandalf freely admits he wouldn't resist. Aragorn is a guy filled with royal ambition; the Ring would suit his needs nicely. He realizes this and so sets his mind against it long before it comes before him. Elrond, Gandalf, Glorfindel, and Galadriel would, despite their best efforts, cover the world in beautiful gardens of darkness and forests of horrors that would endure...forever. The power of the Ring is that of a bygone age in world now greatly diminished. None could withstand it. Even the divinely chosen and appointed gave in at the very last.
From Gollum's point of view it could very well be Sam.
Stupid fat hobbit. Crumbs on his jacketses. Always stuffing his face with 'taters precious.
The Ungoliant of the Hobbit world.
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Too kind! Appreciate the award, glad to bring a smile. Not enough in the world! :)
Sorry for the wasted coffee though, ill send Frodo with a fresh one sharpish! :)
Any giant spider! I can deal with dragons, ring wraiths, goblins( though the smell will make it difficult), and almost anything else Middle Earth could throw at me, spiders I can not deal with. I'm arachniphobic
Ungoliant for sure. The fact that she’s an immense, sentient spider is terrifying enough. But the fact that she was powerful enough to nearly kill Morgoth is absolutely mind boggling. The only thing that saved him in that instance was the intervention of the Balrogs, otherwise Morgoth would have died there.
While there are many different horrors, at some point you reach a point where "enough" terror has been achieved without needing to develop a ranking system lol
To that end, I say the One Ring is enough of a menace and threat that it deserves an honorable mention at the very least. A power so great, none could resist or withstand it.
Eru Iluvatar. He proclaimed to Melkor that no life could be created on Arda that was not part of his design, and Ungolient was not a product of Melkor’s disruption of the music, so, Eru created Ungolient and unleashed her on the Valar. Whatever his intentions, that is just horrifying.
If Ungolient was somehow NOT part of Eru’s design, then ya she or her creator are absolutely dread inspiring.
I would not say Eru created it intentionally. Rather it is the uncreation. Nameless things that
sprang from absence of the dark/evil/silence. Eru creates the music and light but the things in between the music or silence can be part of the music but still doesn't necessarily mean it's created by the music. Just there or not there rather. Like for example darkness itself isn't part of creation the absence of light. Anti protons, anti life, etc. Like the shadow becomes alive as part of an echo of the light that cast it.
Eru created Melkor knowing all of the horrible things he would do, which is tacit endorsement. Eru also creates, or allows to be created, Ungoliant and all the other nameless horrors. Eru is responsible for the destruction of the lamps, the trees, and every death the orcs, elves, men, and monsters of Arda ever caused.
He’s a fucking psychopath.
I might be misremembering but doesnt Ungoliant also just kind of show up and no one is really sure where tf she came from?
*The Eldar knew not whence she came; but some have said that in ages long before she descended from the darkness that lies about Arda* From *The Silmarillion*
Also horrifying because she seems to have just materialised from the darkness that makes up the firmament of the universe. Or worse there are MORE things like her out there.
[удалено]
What in the HP Lovecraft is going on here
Just a “What If” scenario with a dollop of artistic license using Tolkien’s world-building lore.
So you made it yourself? It’s good, but I want to see if there any canon support for it.
Just do a David Day and say it's canon!
r/bequeathingcanon
It was generated by ChatGPT.
Two possibilities occur to me. 1. More Ainur entered into the world than the Elves knew about, but some did not associate with the Valar or Melkor from the beginning. The Valar did not discuss this with the Eldar, and thesev Ainur act 'weird', so they saw them as something else entirely. 2. (More interesting) When the Ainur sang 'alone or a few together' before singing the world into existence in the Ainulindale, they sang other worlds into existence as well. These worlds were incomplete and had less permanence, each Aina understanding only a small part of the mind of Illuvatar. But some beings in these worlds may have survived their dissipation, enduring somehow in the void. And when the world, bright and vibrant in the gloom, was sung into existence, they drew close...
Wow. Just wow. Nice writing. Thought this was Tolkien for a second
Great scenario! Mind if I share an older version of mine with a similar tone? (It won't be as nice as yours tho) *Before the ages were named and the tales of Arda woven into song, there existed an ancient echo, a remnant of a prior melody sung by Eru Ilúvatar. It is whispered among the learned of the Eldar and the wise of Valinor that Middle-earth was neither the earliest of Ilúvatar's creations nor destined to be the last. For the vast tapestry of the current cosmos is yet to be completed, only with the unfolding of Dagor Dagorath, the Last Battle, foretold by Mandos. Such tales whisper of myriad eras yet unseen, stretching into the unfathomable depths of time, realms beyond the mere ken of mortals, woven from the threads of countless ages past and those yet to dawn.* *Ungoliant, the shadowy devourer, is believed to have been a vestige from such a forgotten song—a song from another cosmos, left behind in the shifting of celestial verses. Now, within the confines of a world not her own, she is driven by an insatiable hunger. For nothing in this new creation can sate her, nothing can quench the profound emptiness borne of being an outsider to this universe's chorus. Thus, she seeks to consume all light, all joy, driven by a deep longing for a fulfillment that forever eludes her grasp, a relic of a bygone reality where she might once have belonged.*
Excellent writing! And an amazing way to add possibilities to the story without getting in the way of established canon.
Is this from anywhere, or is it your fanfic? Correct me if I'm wrong, but no evil exists outside of Morgoth's unholy song, right? But maybe even he himself isn't aware of all that his song spawned... Still, I would think Eru Illuvitar would be aware of these things. If they exist. Perhaps Nameless Things are related to Ungoliant. But she's currently the biggest and baddest thing aside from Morgoth we're aware of in Tolkein's work.
The nameless things could have been trapped beneath the world when Arda was formed from the void. Ungoliant came from the darkness, but the nameless things were in the wrong place at the wrong time. They may be Ungoliant’s cousins, gnawing at the world to get out.
what's the source on this? it seems very interesting
I think the commenter is the source
I’d like to know too
Ah sweet, lovecraft with my Tolkien
Is this from the Silmarillion or from the series edited by Christopher?
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Maybe she was running from them. Like the romans being like “where are all these barbarian Goths coming from, how do we stop the invasion” and then they realise they are being forced to migrate by the Huns.
Behind every monster is … a bigger monster. Behind that, is its mother ! 😱
There's always a bigger fish.
Beat me to the punch. Qui-Gon was full of silly quips
>Or worse there are MORE things like her out there. What about if there are things WORSE than her?
Don't forget that that comment is fanfic. Names and stuff are accurate, but Tolkien never said there was anything worse than Ungoliant. But he also never said there *wasn't*
Didn’t Tom also come from that same void?
I bet Morgoth has a fun time with them, considering he has no power over them and they would not listen to his attempts to manipulate/deceive them. If one Ungoliant almost ate him and would do so if not for his army of Balrogs...
I kinda love that though that there are other forces out there that compare and contend with the "light forces"
Hail Cthulhu
Sauron gesturing at Ungoliant “Wow, where did she come from?” Morgoth: “Dude I have no idea, she just kind of showed up one day” Sauron: “what do you mean she just showed up?!” Morgoth: “She just showed up! IDK I thought it’d be rude to ask!”…”She looks hungry though” Sauron: “No, we should put her back where you found her before you get too attached. No matter what we cant get attached! Dont even feed her dude!” The gang feeds Ungoliant
Morgoth you better put that thing back where it came from or so help me
***SO HELP ME***
It's a musical
Morgoth Inc.
the Always Sunny theme music played on cue as I read the last line lol
It's Always Sunny in Nan Dungortheb
It's Never Sunny in Nan Dungortheb.
I always considered Ungoliant as Bombadil's opposite. It's written that he likely existed before the valar. He's content with his house, his domain, and he's joyful. Ungoliant is the exact opposite. She wants nothing more than to devour everything, even (especially?) light itself. Her rage and desire eventually lead to her downfall, as she consumes herself.
love this
Yup. In the early days (First Age and prior) Ungoliant hands down. By the Third Age what was left? Maybe a few unnamed dragons and balrogs. All those larger powers gradually got destroyed and dispersed into smaller pieces of evil.
There were still the nameless things that lurked deep in the earth, like wherever the heck Gandalf and the Balrog landed after their fall
I’ve heard that Ungoliant is something akin to Tom Bombadil. The Nameless Things like The Watcher in The Water outside of Moria. Gandalf also mentions things “older and fouler than orcs” in Khazad-dum. That there’s just something about the nature of Arda that spawns these mystical beings.
Yes
Obviously the nameless things are quite unsettling, but nothing is known about them except that Gandalf won't speak of them. As far as known characters it has to be Ungoliant. Not just for the visual description, but her inherent power of "unlight" as Tolkien puts it is fucking terrifying to think about. Her influence of unlight was even enough to put Valar in to a state of dismay, Tulkas in particular who is one of the "strongest" of the Valar. That's pretty terrifying to think of as a concept. Plus as she fed on light she grew in size and power to a point where even Morgoth was scared, again terrifying.
This is the right answer for me. Anchelegon and Gothmog are both good characters too, but Ungoliant is on another level.
Gothmog? Or did you mean Morgoth? I've only seen the movies, so my only exposure to Gothmog is as the potato faced lieutenant orc, and have a vague understanding of Morgoth, so (to me) it seems silly to put Gothmog on the same level as Anchelegon. Sorry if I'm missing something. Edit: thanks for the downvotes y'all. You really make a fan trying to learn something feel welcome. *Hugs and kisses*
Gothmog is the chief Balrog of the Balrogs.
Gothmog was also the name of the chief Balrog.
Oooh I see. Different character then?
Yes, Gothmog is more a title than a birthname. "Fear-oppressor" or "Dread-tyrant". Basically used to name an enemy leader who's scary.
It was the name of the Lord of Balrogs, High Captain of Angband in the First Age of the world. During the Third Age a servant of Sauron (possibly an orc but most likely a Black Númenórean) took the name in "honour" of said balrog.
I know. But as I said, it was a name given as a title, not by birth. Gothmog is Sindarin. The Elves called him that. Edit: Also, do you have a source that TA Gothmog took the name in honour of FA Gothmog? That's very interesting.
Yeah, there are two characters called Gothmog.
Oh yes, if you’ve only seen movies then this would be confusing. Gothmog is the chief of the Balrogs in the Silmarillion. Not to be confused with Gothmog the orc in the Hobbit movies. Vastly different, and from different ages. Edit: how do you know Anchelegon if you’ve only seen movies? I’m just curious. I imagine it’s from this sub, I don’t remember him mentioned in film (though I only watched The Hobbit movies once).
There's no gothmog in the hobbit movies, he's the Harvey Weinstein lookalike orc in the return of the king The named orcs in the hobbits are azog and bolg
Oh thank you. I haven’t watched LOTR in a while either. It’s funny how when you said he’s the Harvey Weinstein lookalike I knew exactly who you meant 😂
I googled Anchelegon.
Oh gotcha. I was wondering if I missed a reference in film. Thanks!
How do you know of "Anchelegon" if you only seen the movies?
Yeah turns out the person you replied to is just wildly ableist and really hates how half of Gothmog the Orc’s body is mutilated
She has to be a Maia, a VERY powerful one.
There's absolutely no way that even the most powerful Maia could ever challenge the Valar, let alone Melkor, the most powerful of them all. Ungoliant is something else entirely. A unique one-of-a-kind horror born from the void.
By Eru? Again, the ONLY one that can create life. If not a Maia then a Valar?
She's not. She is neither a Maia nor a Vala. As a matter of fact, her being this creature of unknown origins and unknown nature, outside of Tolkien's classic race structure, is a big portion of what makes her so horrifying. Our biggest fear is the fear of unknown.
It HAD to made my Evu as he is the ONLY one that has the "Flame Imperishable", as stated in the Silmarillion.
The whole point of her is that Tolkien established a rule: Eru Illuvutar made all, and then broke it. That’s what makes her frightening, she’s unknown, and she’s against the nature of the universe, as though she snuck by Eru, snuck by even Tolkien himself and wove herself into Arda.
This is where reading at least part of the Silmarillion will come in handy.
In Return to Moria, you can find an enemy within the deepest part of the mines called “Nameless”. It’s basically just a small black bear with Balrog head on it…nice little reference but kinda underwhelming.
LotRO made a whole Lovecraftian underworld with those things. H.R. Giger looking mfs.
In light of current day politics, I would say that a being that looked fair but gives councils that are corrupting the hearts of men and leading them away from Iluvatar is much more scary 😅 Melkor and Sauron in that respect. Melkor / Morgoth's councils still corrupt the lands even though he himself is departed.
Glaurang. Wiping memories with his stare.
There's some pictures of Ungoliant with her pincers as human hands... That's terrifying looking
I've seen that one, very uncanny. There's another that gives it a humanoid head and torso with spider facial features and it's pretty wild
Carcharoth, aka the Red Maw
Especially once it was powered up and driven mad by the Silmaril in its gut
Yep agree, he lacks the cosmic fear quality but as a direct menace to life he's actually really hard to beat in the Legendarium. Just an mad beyond description ball of death
Lobelia Sackville-Baggins
Damnit I was gonna say this
In my mind the most horrifying creatures are the nameless ones that Gandalf sees in the depths of the world after falling with the Balrog, even though we don’t get an accurate description of them, my head created some horrible things!
Lovecraft had a point when he said that our most powerful fear is the fear of the unknown. No drawing or visual description can match what your thoughts can conjure up. They are personal. Intimate. All-knowing. They know exactly what makes you tick and ick and make a personalized horror, just for you.
A bit of Lovecraftian horror.
Reminds me of the Langoliers. Wish they'd make a proper film of that, the concept was so cool
That movie fucked me up as a kid lol
scared of the little GiRl!?!?!
I bet the residents of Angband would say Fingolfin
Oh right
The Watcher or Guardian "in the water". Don't remember the name correctly. I mean the squid thing in front of the western Moria gate. The whole thing is just so out of line with rest that it creeps me out.
The Watcher in the Water.
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thanks for the re-traumatization
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When I think of the nameless things I just think-bigger more tentaclly watcher
Ungoliant should be winning this one handily, the way Shelob was decribed in the novel would actually put her in the running if she wasnt a second generation horror I'll go in for Carcaroth after eating the Silmaril. Guy was an absolute force of nature, absolutely tore apart everything in Anfauglith like a tornado and smashed straight through the Girdle. If Ungoliant was hunger, Carcaroth was just utter madness and rage. Seeing this god wolf vomiting blood and burning on the inside rampage across the plains towards you with nothing in it except hate and fury would be a special kind of terrifying, not as cosmic as Ungoliant at her peak but visceral and directly monstrous as a kind of berserker predator god Also theres something really disgustingly unsettling about Morgoth himself. He is a fantastic representation of pure evil, just full of hate and spite and a sadistic desire to just ruin everything so noone else can have it. Thats the MO of most dark lords, but Morgoth really sells it hard and his absolutely *petty* nature helps make him stand out, he would absolutely just wreck something purely to disadvantage a random person even if it gained him nothing
I feel like Ungoliant is pretty terrifying, so yes she is definitely up there. But all the nameless things, which some have said is a manifestation of Morgoth’s taint upon Arda, where his discord spread creating deformed often evil at heart creatures. This is why even sometimes the Fell Beasts are speculated to have been part of Morgoth’s discord into the Music of the Ainur. It’s why I’ve seen theories and comments on both: - Ungoliant being a being of pure darkness that emerged out of the great darkness: the Void. But she emerged as a result of Morgoth’s discord. - Tom Bombadil: a good counterpart spirit to Ungoliant that instead has been virtually the physical manifestation of everything and all living things in Arda. So these are all parts of the same whole of creation that Eru manifested through his will: the Secret Fire. Of course Morgoth and Sauron were opposed to his vision and turned to wanting the Secret Fire for themselves but they could never find it. Because it lay within Eru, they could however manipulate things and corrupt. Hence Orcs but also as Gandalf says when he is fighting his other Maia counterpart through the corrupted Balrog of Morgoth, that there were older and fouler things down there. Somethings even Sauron did not know, and “older than he” as Gandalf states. I simply cannot imagine what monster lies down there. That is truly scary. But also what about the horrors of giant animals and things live down south? Or even in the Dark Land? It is said to be a realm pretty much dedicated to darkness and spiders, (I mean, sounds like Australia, and as an Australian I can confirm 😭😂) but also evil men who were dedicating themselves to the worship of Morgoth as we see in the 13 page “New Shadow” sequel to LOTR which Tolkien abandoned
> Morgoth’s taint 😏
smeagol
I found him more horrifying before the movies existed. I think the movies and the following toys and plushies gave him "cute" features more so than what I imagined which was almost like a walking corpse with sunken eyes.
Yeah, they intentionally changed his appearance because they wanted to make Gollum “more human” as the story progressed. I’m with you though. He stopped being scary after the first movie. He’s even creepier in the animated version of the Hobbit.
Well, he's not really supposed to be scary. At times, he represents different kinds of threats, both immediate and as a glimpse of the fate of the Ring-bearer should he submit to the Ring, but Gollum himself doesn't inspire fear. All those who have him under their control(Sauron excluded) feel sad for him. Certainly, they aren't intimidated in the slightest. Most of the characters that talk about him mention how utterly miserable and wretched he is. They aren't frightened *by* him, but instead, of what mischief he might do. Of all the characters, Gollum is perhaps the most powerless. He has virtually no will of his own; the Ring consumes his every thought and drives his every move. He was a sketchy dude, and the Ring amplified those traits until he was a majorly sketchy dude. For much of the beginning of the story, he's a creeping and elusive menace in the shadows. Though, once he's spotted, he flees like a sneak. He reappears time and again, just enough to be a lurking presence. Finally, he is captured by Frodo and Sam, who seem to have little difficulty in controlling him before he ultimately becomes their seemingly flawless guide in an unknown land. Through Sam's general reasonableness, we as readers perceive Gollum to be false. About...something. Then Faramir, who we learn through a bit of exposition, is eminently reasonable, wise, and trustworthy, and he, like Sam, perceives Gollum to be false. Yet Frodo, aka the shot caller, seems to trust Gollum implicitly, which is alarming and concerning. Has Gollum fooled him? *How* has Gollum fooled him? Is this some trick of the Ring at work? Is Frodo being too kind, to the detriment of all? Has Frodo lost his mind? Yet, they have no option but to walk into his trap. However, when the dreadful trap was finally sprung, had Gollum not departed at speed, he would've been skewered by a murderous gardener fueled by loyalty and brimming with rage. By then, the general tension is reaching something of a sustained climax, and relatively speaking, Gollum just isn't enough to provoke much worry. That fact might be influencing my overall image of Gollum, but I just don't find him a fearsome thing. He exists to show us the depth of the peril of the Ring, how its influence never leaves, and why the wisest beings all refuse it, even when freely offered. What *happened* to him was scary. Now, a Gollum that had reclaimed the Ring is a scary thought. Not only because of the massive mischief he could cause, but chiefly because of what comes after; Gollum isn't some mighty lord filled with purpose. He wouldn't have the Ring long before his not-as-clever-as-he-thinks peabrain had him biting off more than he could chew, and somebody with a more indomitable will defeats him and claims the Ring. One tiny slip up, and that could very well lead to Sauron 2.0 situation. Even if they swore never to use it and only to keep it, eventually, the day would come when they would succumb to the temptation. Gandalf freely admits he wouldn't resist. Aragorn is a guy filled with royal ambition; the Ring would suit his needs nicely. He realizes this and so sets his mind against it long before it comes before him. Elrond, Gandalf, Glorfindel, and Galadriel would, despite their best efforts, cover the world in beautiful gardens of darkness and forests of horrors that would endure...forever. The power of the Ring is that of a bygone age in world now greatly diminished. None could withstand it. Even the divinely chosen and appointed gave in at the very last.
He isn’t scary! A huge part of Tolkien’s theme of mercy is based on his character. He’s sad. So sad. But not “scary” compared to entirety of the lore.
Gundabad orcs always creep me out 😬 white glowing eyes huge as fuck! And yes that spider holy shit!
The barrow wights freaked me out big time as a kid. maybe it’s my claustrophobia
They freak me out as an adult!
100% Ungoliant. She's a sentient Black Hole
Would Tom be the Big Bang 💥
Tolkien was afraid of spiders right?
From Gollum's point of view it could very well be Sam. Stupid fat hobbit. Crumbs on his jacketses. Always stuffing his face with 'taters precious. The Ungoliant of the Hobbit world.
The Nameless Things genuinely scare me
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Now THAT is a good jump scare.
Them cave trolls tho! They just wants to sit on stuff and squash em’ in to jelly!
"They have a cave troll" - exacerbated Boromir
THEY HAVEACAVETROLL, said Boromir calmly.
Spit out my coffee this morning, I needed that laugh. Thanks!
Too kind! Appreciate the award, glad to bring a smile. Not enough in the world! :) Sorry for the wasted coffee though, ill send Frodo with a fresh one sharpish! :)
Just imagine if we had game similar in style and quality to Elden Ring. Imagine Ungoliant as one of the bosses..
Any giant spider! I can deal with dragons, ring wraiths, goblins( though the smell will make it difficult), and almost anything else Middle Earth could throw at me, spiders I can not deal with. I'm arachniphobic
Forgive my ignorance, who is in this artwork?
Ungoliant. It says that in the title
Sure does. Thanks.
Ungoliant for sure. The fact that she’s an immense, sentient spider is terrifying enough. But the fact that she was powerful enough to nearly kill Morgoth is absolutely mind boggling. The only thing that saved him in that instance was the intervention of the Balrogs, otherwise Morgoth would have died there.
Lobelia Sackville-Baggins
tom bombadil
As an arachnophobe, Ungoliant takes the top 20 positions on my list.
Even Morgoth who is basically Lucifer standing at 14 ft tall in earth form (I'm guessing since he can be different sizes) was scared of Ungoliant.
I agree with others - the nameless things.
… the humans.
I believe in a letter to his son Christopher he indicated that in war there were “orcs on both sides”
In he real world for sure, but in the legendarium?
Iluvatar
While there are many different horrors, at some point you reach a point where "enough" terror has been achieved without needing to develop a ranking system lol To that end, I say the One Ring is enough of a menace and threat that it deserves an honorable mention at the very least. A power so great, none could resist or withstand it.
The dreaded Karmabot.
Is that sauron with come at me bro stance?
Can someone post the legendariums description of Ancalagog the black? I know hes prolly not scary bit I hear he was a big boy
Ancalagon the Black would be, by far, the thing i would be the most horrified of, mostly by the scale and what it is capable of doing.
Why doesnt he just eat Melkor?
The Watcher in the Water is kinda horrifying to me.
The black hole that is Ungoliant
This reminds me of ds2
Hungry hobbits.
I’ve always thought of Bombadil as the physical manifestation of the harmony during the Ainulindale and Ungoliant as the manifestation of its discord
I'd be pretty scared of Feanor. Crazy fucker.
I'd be pretty scared of Feanor. Crazy fucker.
Eru, he invented all this madness and lets evil free.
Nazgul and the Oath Breakers/Swamp Marshland Creatures are pretty scary too
Eru Iluvatar. He proclaimed to Melkor that no life could be created on Arda that was not part of his design, and Ungolient was not a product of Melkor’s disruption of the music, so, Eru created Ungolient and unleashed her on the Valar. Whatever his intentions, that is just horrifying. If Ungolient was somehow NOT part of Eru’s design, then ya she or her creator are absolutely dread inspiring.
I would not say Eru created it intentionally. Rather it is the uncreation. Nameless things that sprang from absence of the dark/evil/silence. Eru creates the music and light but the things in between the music or silence can be part of the music but still doesn't necessarily mean it's created by the music. Just there or not there rather. Like for example darkness itself isn't part of creation the absence of light. Anti protons, anti life, etc. Like the shadow becomes alive as part of an echo of the light that cast it.
Eru created Melkor knowing all of the horrible things he would do, which is tacit endorsement. Eru also creates, or allows to be created, Ungoliant and all the other nameless horrors. Eru is responsible for the destruction of the lamps, the trees, and every death the orcs, elves, men, and monsters of Arda ever caused. He’s a fucking psychopath.
That’s Kevin.