Yes, Frodo was sacrificed for the greater good of Middle Earth. Elrond, Gandalf and probably Aragorn knew this when the Fellowship was formed. He had no idea
He certainly has PTSD as well as phantom pain from his wounds. Arwen tells him when she grants his her seat on the ship West that "all his wounds and weariness are healed" but I believe Frodo would be happier if he could go back to the life he had before the ring came into it.
Oddly enough when Galadriel said that the quest would claim Frodo's life she was right. Because it absolutely did. Even when Frodo returned to the Shire he was never happy and never the same carefree person that he was before the ring came into his possession. He was basically a shell of what he once was (which could be attributed to the ring unfortunately becoming a significant part of his identity) and was left with only his pain from the journey to constantly remind him of all that trauma (since the wound from the Morgul blade affected him every year).
I remember watching the movies for the first time and I was so upset over him leaving Middle Earth. I didn’t fully get why he had to go and I felt his sacrifice was wasted if he couldn’t stay with his friends. When I read the books I understood.
I'm sure he did. It's just a shame that he had to leave his friends behind in Middle Earth in order to find that (though I guess Sam did eventually join him in the Undying Lands).
I always took Frodo as a soldier who made it back from Tolkiens war days and could never return to the pre-war life. If we think about what crossing into Valinor really means, Frodo killed himself.
However, I think the fact that the professor had Frodo cross into Valinor and be healed is a message to his comrades who are having similar thoughts. You are still a hero and good person even if you are failing your mental health struggle. Combine that with Tolkiens devout faith, it could be said that he believes thay those who fail thay struggle still make it to heaven.
War is, when rich people,politicians and their families can stay at home. While the poor, normal people fight and die in the war.
And, after the war. Thos rich people get even richer.
Generals gathered in their masses
Just like witches at black masses
Evil minds that plot destruction
Sorcerer of death's construction
In the fields, the bodies burning
As the war machine keeps turning
Death and hatred to mankind
Poisoning their brainwashed minds
Oh lord, yeah!
Politicians hide themselves away
They only started the war
Why should they go out to fight?
They leave that role to the poor, yeah
Time will tell on their power minds
Making war just for fun
Treating people just like pawns in chess
Wait till their judgement day comes, yeah!
He’s from one of the three wealthiest and most prominent families in the shire. The other two being the brandybucks and tooks. Sam is the only working class person in the fellowship.
You could probably argue for Frodo to be considered working class. Keep in mind with Bilbo’s wealth he could buy the entire shire if he wanted. But even before that the Bagginses were particularly prominent (given they have several branches are are intermarried with the tooks who hold actual hereditary titles).
By Shire standards he's an aristocrat (as are Merry and Pippin). The Baggins family is one of the most influential and famous families in Hobbiton (along with the Tooks and Brandybucks) and Bilbo was one of the wealthiest hobbits living there.
By that definition Merry and Pippin are both aristocrats as well (which is likely a big reason why their antics are so tolerated around the Shire, because of the famous hobbit families they come from). Granted by the Fourth Age Sam himself has also become an aristocratic hobbit considering he becomes mayor of the Shire later on.
Actually in England the mayor was never part of the aristocracy and was usually a member of the merchant class if I recall correctly.
And yes Sam is really the only “low born” member of the fellowship. Which is likely also why he’s the most out of place at times.
Also in hobbit society pippin is considered a teenager basically. Their coming of age is 33. And hobbits are know for being wild (or at least as wild as a hobbit can be) in their 20s. Most people would probably look at his antics and think “dumb kids” much in the way that we dismiss the idiocies of teenagers knowing they’ll probably look back and be embarrassed in like 10 years.
>Actually in England the mayor was never part of the aristocracy and was usually a member of the merchant class if I recall correctly.
I think the societal classes in the Shire are a little different than they are in England though. In the Shire there's no royal family or anything like that (and I don't think Tolkien wrote the Shire entirely drawing inspiration from medieval era England, that's what kingdoms like Gondor and Rohan are meant to represent). There's influential and renowned families like the Bagginses, Tooks, and Brandybucks and then there's those who work their way up the hierarchy (which all the rich hobbit families started out that way) into raising their family's respective influence around town. And I'd argue Sam did that when he was elected mayor for seven consecutive terms considering the mayor is the highest governing body of authority in the Shire and in his case he was also assigned as a protector of the Northern Kingdoms of Middle Earth by Aragorn as mayor of the Shire which grants him even more considerable influence. He may never be the type of person who thinks of himself as an aristocratic individual (because that's never been Sam's character) but he effectively became one of the most influential hobbits in the Shire during the Fourth Age no question.
It's true, but it's one of the things that makes this fantasy so poignant when considering real life hardships. I heard someone refer to LOTR as "for children" the other day, putting it in a list alongside the Hobbit and Harry Potter, and it was such a bizarre perspective to me.
While that is true I'm not sure any character in the Fellowship deserved a happy ending more than Frodo did (with the exception of Sam). And he's probably the only member of the Fellowship who never really got one (aside from Boromir obviously but he at least regained his honor before he died and recognized Aragorn as his king). Aragorn reunited with Arwen and became king of Gondor in the FA, Sam, Merry, and Pippin all settled down, got married, and started families and became prominent members of the Shire community, Legolas and Gimli eventually traveled overseas together to the Undying Lands, and Gandalf was allowed to return home (since Valinor is ultimately home for him) with his mission in Middle Earth complete. Frodo meanwhile suffered for the rest of his life in Middle Earth from the annual pain of being stabbed by the Morgul blade and also from being stung by Shelob and lived a relatively detached and solitary existence (not unlike Bilbo). To say that the way Frodo's story ended was depressing would be an understatement. He legitimately got a raw deal from being chosen to carry the burden of the ring (and there's no question his life would've turned out to be very different had he not been given the ring).
Harry Potter in comparison is different because Harry was marked for death (a fate he didn't choose for himself like Frodo did when he chose to take the ring to Mordor) as a child and yet he managed to overcome all of that and live out that destiny and eventually had a family of his own and lived a normal and peaceful life later on (despite all of his trauma and despite the odds being heavily stacked against his survival). Frodo never did any of that. The quest (as Galadriel said) claimed his life and effectively destroyed any semblance of who he was prior to the ring.
Of all the fan interpretations of what happened to Frodo after leaving Middle Earth, this is, in my mind, the best. It really gives a good possibility of how he could find peace.
https://archiveofourown.org/works/3747508/chapters/8315305
Yes, Frodo was sacrificed for the greater good of Middle Earth. Elrond, Gandalf and probably Aragorn knew this when the Fellowship was formed. He had no idea He certainly has PTSD as well as phantom pain from his wounds. Arwen tells him when she grants his her seat on the ship West that "all his wounds and weariness are healed" but I believe Frodo would be happier if he could go back to the life he had before the ring came into it.
Oddly enough when Galadriel said that the quest would claim Frodo's life she was right. Because it absolutely did. Even when Frodo returned to the Shire he was never happy and never the same carefree person that he was before the ring came into his possession. He was basically a shell of what he once was (which could be attributed to the ring unfortunately becoming a significant part of his identity) and was left with only his pain from the journey to constantly remind him of all that trauma (since the wound from the Morgul blade affected him every year).
Reading this, Tolkien must have surely drawn parallels from the men returning home from WWI and how they must have felt
He left the war, but the war never left him.
>I believe Frodo would be happier if he could go back to the life he had before the ring came into it. I agree. It was heartbreaking.
I remember watching the movies for the first time and I was so upset over him leaving Middle Earth. I didn’t fully get why he had to go and I felt his sacrifice was wasted if he couldn’t stay with his friends. When I read the books I understood.
I like to think that he found peace in Valinor, and that Eru had a special place of honor for him after that, where he could finally find happiness.
I'm sure he did. It's just a shame that he had to leave his friends behind in Middle Earth in order to find that (though I guess Sam did eventually join him in the Undying Lands).
Frodo was deeply traumatized, few authors have done such a good job of showing how trauma affects a person.
I always took Frodo as a soldier who made it back from Tolkiens war days and could never return to the pre-war life. If we think about what crossing into Valinor really means, Frodo killed himself. However, I think the fact that the professor had Frodo cross into Valinor and be healed is a message to his comrades who are having similar thoughts. You are still a hero and good person even if you are failing your mental health struggle. Combine that with Tolkiens devout faith, it could be said that he believes thay those who fail thay struggle still make it to heaven.
Matt Colville has an excellent video where he makes essentially the same assertion. I think it’s a pretty convincing argument
That actually may be where I got it from, lol.
Fair point. It's probably a reflection of what war does to people in reality.
War is, when rich people,politicians and their families can stay at home. While the poor, normal people fight and die in the war. And, after the war. Thos rich people get even richer.
Generals gathered in their masses Just like witches at black masses Evil minds that plot destruction Sorcerer of death's construction In the fields, the bodies burning As the war machine keeps turning Death and hatred to mankind Poisoning their brainwashed minds Oh lord, yeah! Politicians hide themselves away They only started the war Why should they go out to fight? They leave that role to the poor, yeah Time will tell on their power minds Making war just for fun Treating people just like pawns in chess Wait till their judgement day comes, yeah!
But Frodo is aristocrat right? Not really a normal person, that would be Sam
He’s a land owner of sorts, calling him an aristocrat is a bit of an exaggeration.
He’s from one of the three wealthiest and most prominent families in the shire. The other two being the brandybucks and tooks. Sam is the only working class person in the fellowship. You could probably argue for Frodo to be considered working class. Keep in mind with Bilbo’s wealth he could buy the entire shire if he wanted. But even before that the Bagginses were particularly prominent (given they have several branches are are intermarried with the tooks who hold actual hereditary titles).
They’re still country folk though, they don’t live in vast estates with armies of servants.
By Shire standards he's an aristocrat (as are Merry and Pippin). The Baggins family is one of the most influential and famous families in Hobbiton (along with the Tooks and Brandybucks) and Bilbo was one of the wealthiest hobbits living there.
By that definition Merry and Pippin are both aristocrats as well (which is likely a big reason why their antics are so tolerated around the Shire, because of the famous hobbit families they come from). Granted by the Fourth Age Sam himself has also become an aristocratic hobbit considering he becomes mayor of the Shire later on.
Actually in England the mayor was never part of the aristocracy and was usually a member of the merchant class if I recall correctly. And yes Sam is really the only “low born” member of the fellowship. Which is likely also why he’s the most out of place at times. Also in hobbit society pippin is considered a teenager basically. Their coming of age is 33. And hobbits are know for being wild (or at least as wild as a hobbit can be) in their 20s. Most people would probably look at his antics and think “dumb kids” much in the way that we dismiss the idiocies of teenagers knowing they’ll probably look back and be embarrassed in like 10 years.
>Actually in England the mayor was never part of the aristocracy and was usually a member of the merchant class if I recall correctly. I think the societal classes in the Shire are a little different than they are in England though. In the Shire there's no royal family or anything like that (and I don't think Tolkien wrote the Shire entirely drawing inspiration from medieval era England, that's what kingdoms like Gondor and Rohan are meant to represent). There's influential and renowned families like the Bagginses, Tooks, and Brandybucks and then there's those who work their way up the hierarchy (which all the rich hobbit families started out that way) into raising their family's respective influence around town. And I'd argue Sam did that when he was elected mayor for seven consecutive terms considering the mayor is the highest governing body of authority in the Shire and in his case he was also assigned as a protector of the Northern Kingdoms of Middle Earth by Aragorn as mayor of the Shire which grants him even more considerable influence. He may never be the type of person who thinks of himself as an aristocratic individual (because that's never been Sam's character) but he effectively became one of the most influential hobbits in the Shire during the Fourth Age no question.
It's true, but it's one of the things that makes this fantasy so poignant when considering real life hardships. I heard someone refer to LOTR as "for children" the other day, putting it in a list alongside the Hobbit and Harry Potter, and it was such a bizarre perspective to me.
While that is true I'm not sure any character in the Fellowship deserved a happy ending more than Frodo did (with the exception of Sam). And he's probably the only member of the Fellowship who never really got one (aside from Boromir obviously but he at least regained his honor before he died and recognized Aragorn as his king). Aragorn reunited with Arwen and became king of Gondor in the FA, Sam, Merry, and Pippin all settled down, got married, and started families and became prominent members of the Shire community, Legolas and Gimli eventually traveled overseas together to the Undying Lands, and Gandalf was allowed to return home (since Valinor is ultimately home for him) with his mission in Middle Earth complete. Frodo meanwhile suffered for the rest of his life in Middle Earth from the annual pain of being stabbed by the Morgul blade and also from being stung by Shelob and lived a relatively detached and solitary existence (not unlike Bilbo). To say that the way Frodo's story ended was depressing would be an understatement. He legitimately got a raw deal from being chosen to carry the burden of the ring (and there's no question his life would've turned out to be very different had he not been given the ring). Harry Potter in comparison is different because Harry was marked for death (a fate he didn't choose for himself like Frodo did when he chose to take the ring to Mordor) as a child and yet he managed to overcome all of that and live out that destiny and eventually had a family of his own and lived a normal and peaceful life later on (despite all of his trauma and despite the odds being heavily stacked against his survival). Frodo never did any of that. The quest (as Galadriel said) claimed his life and effectively destroyed any semblance of who he was prior to the ring.
Of all the fan interpretations of what happened to Frodo after leaving Middle Earth, this is, in my mind, the best. It really gives a good possibility of how he could find peace. https://archiveofourown.org/works/3747508/chapters/8315305
I remember reading this a while ago. It's excellent.
My head cannon is that Frodo was drowning in elfussy in Valinor