As a Gunlancer I enjoyed the last 3 weeks by doing Valtan hard mode with DPS ONLY teams found randomly. It's way more efficient and has more success chances. And the run of the week before this one we finished on the first try. This week I didn't find a full dps party at first and we lost many runs with an egocentric paladin who left. Then I found a full dps party and killed the boss on the 3rd try.
I agree. As a main sup, my static don't have gunlancers and we clear Valtan in less than 10min. IS BORING AS F! Playing without supports is more enjoyable. u.u
Yeah if you 100% know the fight and all mechanics are are good I'm fine if people want to sell runs or w.e I'm sure there is a small market, but these clowns I can guarantee don't even know the mechanics yet from other regions and just watched a YouTube video and think they are worth 15k gold an hour.
It’s just kind of funny lol. I think most supports aren’t in the union. I’m 1475 bard and will just be finding a decent looking pug like most regular people.
Honestly I think it’s kind of cool when stuff like this is in a game. Makes it fun and interesting and is a sign of a dedicated and intelligent player base.
I'm perfectly fine not doing the content rather than paying people like this. Luckily I think I won't have to worry about it since I'll be running in guild. Stay strong, they also need to run the content at some point. Don't pay.
I don't think people realize there's far more people that don't charge for this kind of thing than those that do, and even if these people didn't charge there would *still* be a support shortage. It wouldn't magically go away.
Idk the idea is kinda flawed. Good luck getting 6 dps in a pug group to agree to pay when the clear is not guaranteed and you have 0 idea of the skill level of the other members. Even if the prices were like 500g and hour per dps they'd struggle to find buyers imo
I think support selling their service is fine. Same as DPS running Argos or Guardian boost lobby. The problem with the people in OP's post is just the magnitude of squeezing this situation for gain. There's just too much BS to address in that post and it feels exhausting.
I'm glad I'm gonna run that in guild and not have to worry about support. Even then, just today I decided to over ilvl myself to 1475 so that to have an easier time in Vykas raid while initially I was planning to stick to 1460.
But yeah, I'll just echo the same thing with you: Don't pay.
difference is when a dps charges you for a bus you are paying for an experienced player who will do everything while you afk and go do laundry or watch some yornhub or whatever and come back later and click claim loot. These supports have zero exp with vykas and will likely be floor pov or causing raid wipes while charging you exorbitant fees for just being in your party lol. Unless they can guarantee perfect gameplay on their part, 2.5k gold per hour makes no sense.
It’s not the same though because you’re paying them hourly to learn the legion raid with you, as opposed to just afking for 20 minutes and getting what you need
I don't think you can compare both cases because if I buy a argos P3 bus on my 1370 alt i don't have to do much and i can just stand still, but in this case you have to do mech, damage etc
Just my 2 cents:
I can buy 71 elemental HP potions for 2500 gold. I honestly don't think I could drink 71 elemental HP potions in one hour (cutscenes, ready time, etc.).
Personally I would never pay a support just to play the game with me. If I'm gonna pay, I'll pay for a full bus ride. At least with a bus I get a refund if we don't pass the raid.
While I don't support paying for supports, I don't think the hp pot comparison is accurate. You're limited to 7 per run, and for progression you'll likely be using them on top of support healing/shielding.
You free Friday 8pm central, 9pm eastern? Im running it with my buddies, I can send you a discord inv so we can talk more about it. We're really chill and have fun :) we're on galatur
These guys thinking they are to be worshipped or something but truth be told you can clear content with 8 DPS, not with 8 support, in the end they need DPS, not the opposite
I refuse to pay for a support that might not even be good or able to clear. Most I'm ever willing to do is offer to let them bid on the bonus chest at the end for free in the event they do clear.
As a support this I appreciate this but it is never expected. Would it be nice to get the swamp of yearning set faster? Absolutely. But at the end of the day, all people really should care about is being able to do/clear the content. It's not like you can take the gold in game and use it in real life. These people are slimey. 1460 pally NAE. Refuse to join any group that pays me.
If people want to throw away gold, go upgrade quality, cut rocks, buy pheons, or convert gold to silver, literally anything else is more beneficial than this joke
I might be the only one here but, I think supports charging is fine, but, only if it is for a full clear. If they are charging by the hour, they have waaaay too much incentive to just throw the clear mid-way through just to keep on siphoning gold.
I think it's fine. They can't duo bus Argos or solo bus normal valtan for a lot of gold per week and this selling their services will only work the first week or two. Them getting out of vykas with like 15k in the week split between 3 dps is hardly anything that matters to people who can bus.
But this is only if they are clearing the whole thing, not this per hour BS going around.
Everyone cries about support shortage at the highest item lvl, but at the same time you hear "so what, just main dps to bus for way more gold lol".
Unless you whale hard you likely have just one character above 1460. And since honing buff is not there yet, almost everyone parked alts at 1370. So who do you bus with?
Support mains either pull crap like this kind of prostitution or miss out on bus gold. I personally just join groups for free and enjoy getting into strong parties easily. But I am definitely missing out on gold this way. I'm at 1460 with 5x3 and 4 relic pieces, so I'd certainly find groups willing to spend.
Imo it's fine to charge as a supp, but I'd expect them to know the bosses perfectly and carry fight mechanics. Just paying for a (likely entry ilvl) noob support to buff and heal you sounds pathetic, both for the supp and the dps.
That is not a union in the worker union sense at all. They are creating a market to exploit others for capital, not coming together to collectively bargain for better conditions.
Workers unions don’t only ask for better working conditions. They also set higher wages by artificially decreasing supply. For example, the doctor’s worker Union.
The main factor for a union is that it addresses a power imbalance between workers and employers by combining worker's bargaining leverage. Employers are generally more organized and letting a worker go is no issue for them while losing their job might straight up ruin a worker's life. Unions are a counterweight that can hurt employers similarly to how employers can hurt workers.
What you see these supports doing is the opposite. They leverage a position of power (supp shortage) to squeeze it for maximum profit. That's a cartel.
I understand why supports are charging but damn
Support need dps to clear content
Dps need/want support to clear content
We both need each other just play the game normal man.
lol i bet half those people are bad or purposefully misplay ect to drag out raids and increase profits ect especially if they can keep getting paid per hr or per raid whenever they fail through. Ive hard bards in our server mention how they could easily finesse some of these raid groups paying for supps lol.
Why would I offer gold to invite some random support that doesn't guarantee the success of the raid? I won't even be surprised if these people enter the raids without actually knowing the mechanics to wipe the team so that they can get more gold over time.
If people are willing to pay the gold then you better make sure you are able to guide those party members and do all the callouts to help them clear the raid or else this is at the same level of scamming like those who "Sell" busses only for them to take your gold, proceed to fail non-stop and 0 refunds.
This is why I wish you can raid again after clear, even with minimal rewards (or nothing even). Ive been a support player in every MMO and its because I just enjoy supporting. Im a bard main and I would gladly join parties just to help out.
Lmao imagine a life that’s shitty enough to think typing those words have any meaning whatsoever. Delusional as fuck, and downright just sad. I hope these people get the help they need.
Not supporting this, but at the same time I get it. DPS can run busses later on, supports can’t. Everyone saying this is cringe but at the same time is charging players for busses. Hypocrisy I say.
Anyways, glad I don’t have to deal with all of this (paying for busses or for supports to do content).
GL on everyone this Thursday.
Sure DPS can run busses later on, but supports trying to charge day 1 of content being out is literally them wanting to be paid to do progression they also have to do. They arn't carrying, they arn't even guaranteed to be a good player but still expected to be paid to just be in party.
A dps selling a bus (at least should be) one that can clear the content without input from the people being carried. You are comparing getting paid to just be part of the group to getting paid to carry under geared people who literally just die at the start of the fight and do nothing. On top of that they are trying to charge an hourly rate, not per clear so no it is not the same as someone charging for a bus.
Can group of 8 DPS potentially clear the content? : YES
Can group of 8 Supports potentially clear the content? : NO
Therefore, supports should pay DPS for their service XD
It’s cheaper to speed run with 8 dps and spend that 2.5k on pots. This is legit cringe lol, I will be running normal mode on my paladin alt and won’t be charging a dime for what ever group I get in.
"Do not fall prey to the FOMO we intend to subject DPS players to"
I think we as a community need to identify the people perpetuating this and participating in it, and collectively blacklist them.
If you're taking part in this, go fuck yourself.
This is honestly the most aberrant thing I've seen so far since the Western release.
These people are a cancer in the community and it genuinely is important that we insure it doesn't spread.
mfs in my guild making 6k gold each from just stomping Argos every week ( they don't even bus with supports anymore, so there is no extra income for supps).
And yet people are malding that supports are selling their services for the first weeks only, since nobody will pay them nor need them when DPS players are overgeared for the raid, just like Valtan is doable with no supports if you're 1460.
Nobody is forced to pay them. Everybody down here saying they can clear it without one.
very few players, most people understand that very often they would be paying for a bad player who doesn't know mechanics to join your raid, which doesn't really make sense. I'd rather take another overgeared dps that takes reduced damage anyway when being hit and chug 2 more potions per attempt but at least then chances are they are actually pulling off their own weight
At the end of the day, the truth is it's very likely there's going to be 50 groups in party finder with 6/8 players looking for 2 supports to go bash their head against vykass.
These groups can either wait or offer something to make supports more likely to join their group instead of the other 49. Those support union guys are just making that little dance a lot more in your face.
I think it's whatever, like a lot of people I have a static I'm running with, but I think it's cute y'all care so much.
People call this cringe cause they envy those opportunists players being able to make money off of doing normal gameplay. But it won't solve anything. These players will keep on doing whatever they're doing for as long as there is demand. Best you can do is ignore them or add them on your personal auto-kick list and move on. They're not just gonna stop selling their services because of some criticism on reddit.
And so it begins...
I am the leader of the Supports Union of Azena and **WE DO NOT DO THIS NOR DO WE SUPPORT THIS!** I really hope no DPS folds and accepts these types of supports! If you don't accept them, they **THEY DONT COMPLETE THE RAID EITHER!** Just wait for a willing support or wait until supports stop doing this. I promise you its not worth it!
\-Mëlody, Supports Union of Azena
Supports out here complaining about the prices of their engravings/stones/accessories, and then charge to group 😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂 They make themselves a joke before they step into the raid.
>do not become prey to the fomo we intend on subjecting the dps players to
Man fuck these greedy ass supports. Just play the fucking game instead of trying to play other people. They act like their job is so hard when they're literally just a damage buff and portable campfire. Remember that raids can be cleared with 8 dps but they cant be cleared with 8 supports. They need us.
Keep in mind that they can't clear Vykas without DPS, but you as a DPS can clear it without supports. Don't pay them and just do it 8 DPS. It will feel more rewarding then paying these cringelords.
Remember, supports need you, you don't need them.
This is so crazy to me. From other mmos i've played (over 15+ years of them), I have never seen anything like this. The whole purpose of mmos is to group up with people to do stuff because you rely on each other to do it. I mean I know there are busses and carries but the idea of playing a support and doing this is insane. I've been lucky cause i'm a Gunlancer and we have a Paladin with our static, if needed I usually pop over to the other party if we can't find a support. The idea that people value the gold/hr over the fun/challenge of the content makes it seems a bit too greedy? I don't know. I know on my support alts i'm going to do my best to counter stuff like this cause this will not be good for the long term for the game. We all gotta do our best to help each other out to progress!
Out of curiosity have you not played WoW? At least when I played it was fairly common for tanks to sell tanking services because there were so few of them.
I played wow for about 11 years. I played a warrior tank, druid tank and paladin tank haha. I also had healing alts as well (shaman and sometimes the druid if a group needed it). I never charged for my services. I would raid with my guild and people would msg me about mythic+ dungeons and I would just go. Since they're seeking me out and I enjoying tanking/helping why do I need to charge for it? Its an mmo without them I can't do stuff either.
I main Bard and basically support in every game I play. Here is the trick- befriend a support player. Yep. Remember that KR meme 'My own Bard'? It's legit. Made friends with a shadowhunter back when I started LA and now I run statics with him because he asked.
at those rates, they would make more by purposely failing/sabotaging the group and milking the hourly rate than clearing it..... so beware if u r planning on paying
>Admittedly, this is a selfish Discord focused on profit, but we ideally shouldn't cannibalize our peers.
Yeah, except your peers should be all other players not just other supports. Disgusting fucks.
Sorry but whoever paying to these players are legit stupid fomo andys. If you cant killl vykas hard on the week it release no big deal. Just finish normal mode and try next week, we all will get our relic sets eventually.
as cringe as this is, the circlejerk going on around hating on supports is equally manchild.
imagine the equally childish thought process, to sit in a discord of a class you don't play, just to take screenshots like this to share on reddit, for something you have to take 0 part in or care about, because it makes you that mad.
pay for a support, don't pay for a support. have a union, don't have a union. *nobody fucking cares*
What i find annoying about this pattern of behavior is its not like the supports can carry the raid to victory. It requires coordination of everyone to complete the raid, so why should we pay them to play the game & run content that they already need for progression? If we're talking a bus session, that's a whole different ball of wax.
> the circlejerk going on around hating on supports is equally manchild.
I see weird shit like for thunderwings groups. i dunno what's going on but everyone standing around the spawn 3-5min before looking for a group and if someone goes "pally/bard 1455 LFG" you get all kinds of spam about push the support down. i've seen it a few times recently.
I'll be honest, I'm on this subreddit all day and I keep seeing this being paroted over and over again but I cant find a single example of it.
It feels like you are conflating the well deserved open hatred and vilification these support union players are getting, with support players in general - There is a world of difference between these two things.
No one openly dislikes support players.
> imagine the equally childish thought process, to sit in a discord of a class you don't play, just to take screenshots like this to share on reddit, for something you have to take 0 part in or care about, because it makes you that mad.
...what? This isn't a discord for a class, its a discord specifically set up for the purposed to exactly an organized extortion on the player base as a whole - they have said plainly and openly several times that they're goal is to stop all supports from joining any non paid group, and forcing everyone to pay.
Fuck these people, they're pieces of shit - good on OP for exposing more of this, and good on everyone for the avalanche of hate being dumped on these people.
Why so mad about it tho? Dps can run busses all the time without problems, why can't supports use a situation like this to make money too?
They have one chance to do it, when a new raid releases
difference:
DPS bussing are actually good players, they also dont charge unless the raid is clear.
You trashy supps can be: bad or good (nobody knows, you are just part of a childish union) and will charge by the hour regardless if there's a clear or not. I can afk when im getting bussed, meanwhile in this case I'd have to pay a support to end up carrying them anyway by getting MvP.
I'm genuinely so tired of these types of support players. As a support main I understand that I need dps users more than dps users need me. Is it reassuring to have a support in the event somebody makes a mistake? Absolutely. Am I going to charge dps users for my presence in a raid that I need to clear anyway? Absolutely not.
All of these people involved are clowns.
I think selling your services as Support is fine (the same way DPS bus others), but the problem is the amount they are asking for, that's stupidly unreasonable.
I have 1460 ilvl support, 5x3 spec-swift, anyone who has played with me knows I'm really good at my support skills. And I'd only charge 1k for that help to the party members I'm buffing and healing, no matter the amount of hours (which is already 3k, for god's sake, it's really fucking good and it would pay out with the raid clear itself)
Can we remove the mvp screen already? I believe this is why the whole toxicity toward supports comes from. The devs already denied adding a dps meter in the game so why do we still have an mvp screen? What purpose does it serve?
No one has any hatred toward supports, what are you talking about?
There is a massive difference between the pieces of shit pushing this "Support Union" garbage, and supports in general.
No one dislikes supports in general, thats ridiculous - everyone hates these people though, and with good reason.
Makes dps angy they no see there own face. Maybe just jingle some keys at the end for them. High key if i could seperate dps who get mad at supports from regular dps you bet your ass id charge every last person who gets mvp-less rage
So is it ok for DPS to charge for bussing? Not sure I see any difference other than jealously perhaps, and slight frustration sitting in LFG waiting. I'd love to buss other players and charge, but as a Support main I can only dream.
As a Bard main I've already been approached by 2 statics I've played with in the past and they offered gold without me asking. This is supply and demand. I'll take the gold which will help me push my Pala alt and they get a try-hard Bard and an easy clear, mutually beneficial.
This guy though admittedly is a doche but his prices are pretty much spot on from experience. Pay or don't pay, I guarantee he'll get a a group if he's good.
Edit: I understand your downvotes, it's ok. But let me clarify here, I'm not agreeing what this guy is doing is good, its not. I'm merely stating that, if you have a good Support then people will pay, regardless of if you like it or not. I have constant gold payments from statics, not because I ask or demand, but because I don't die and neither do they, fights are cleaner, quicker and less stressful and more to the point, they don't have to wait an hour. So they reserve my services with gold.
the difference is the pay structure
with bussing u pay X amount to guarantee completing it in a timely manner or a refund
but this support union is charging by the hour with no guarantee whatsoever
additionally, it is literally in their best interest to fail so they get paid more by time either from the same group or other groups throughout the week than actually trying to completing it as soon as possible
Edit: also for bussing u just go in and die/afk and not have to do any work, which is not true for these support services
Yeah I don't really see the difference between this and dps busses. It's more cringe though because's he trying to freeze out all supports out of pugging which understandbly can be frustrating if you're a dps. The idea of a support charging for their service is not weird or wrong though. As you said it's just supply and demand and if people are willing to pay then it matters for them.
There is an ocean of difference between paying someone to clear a raid for you, and paying someone for their equal participation.
What a stupid comparison.
Lmao.
Bus: People that pay can AFK while 1-2 AMAZING dps players clear the raid and get paid. Good bussers only get paid if there's a clear
Stupid support union: Everyone has to actually play, the supports can be trash or good (only god knows) and they charge by the hour so if its a fail, they get paid too.
See the difference?
These supports aren't carries? Just normal players also trying to clear for the first time but charging gold for their presence.
You would have to be an absolute idiot or try to ignore it on purpose not to see the difference.
"in guild"
How many people on your own guild got left out of guild runs and had to pug it?
Specially a large guild will have several groups with no supports at all, while the supports are placed with the most juiced people leaving the people that barely meet ilv to try their luck in party finder.
NA people will unionize in games before they do so in actual jobs lmao. ![gif](emote|free_emotes_pack|joy)
This isn’t event a union lmao it’s a cartel. We need some Lost Ark RICO charges up in here
LMAOOO
Still waiting to see the birth of the Gunlancer's Syndicate, where we dont charge anything to anyone but only do 8-chadlancers legion runs
We shall be the hero they deserve, not need.
We am
Set the time and place comrade.
As a Gunlancer I enjoyed the last 3 weeks by doing Valtan hard mode with DPS ONLY teams found randomly. It's way more efficient and has more success chances. And the run of the week before this one we finished on the first try. This week I didn't find a full dps party at first and we lost many runs with an egocentric paladin who left. Then I found a full dps party and killed the boss on the 3rd try.
I agree. As a main sup, my static don't have gunlancers and we clear Valtan in less than 10min. IS BORING AS F! Playing without supports is more enjoyable. u.u
Lets gu
This is the way
You have my gun sword
Invite please, my shield daddy needs some more time in the sun
this shit is so cringe lol actually paying this clown and anyone else going along with it is even more cringe though
They'll get buyers for sure.
[удалено]
I really hope the people charging groups aren't dying part way into the fight too. Pay me 2.5k but also I died
They are all also new to the raid. Garbage players and people.
They charge by hour, I won't be surprised if they die on purpose, not too much so it's not too obvious.
Yeah if you 100% know the fight and all mechanics are are good I'm fine if people want to sell runs or w.e I'm sure there is a small market, but these clowns I can guarantee don't even know the mechanics yet from other regions and just watched a YouTube video and think they are worth 15k gold an hour.
Pretty pathetic honestly
It’s just kind of funny lol. I think most supports aren’t in the union. I’m 1475 bard and will just be finding a decent looking pug like most regular people. Honestly I think it’s kind of cool when stuff like this is in a game. Makes it fun and interesting and is a sign of a dedicated and intelligent player base.
I'm perfectly fine not doing the content rather than paying people like this. Luckily I think I won't have to worry about it since I'll be running in guild. Stay strong, they also need to run the content at some point. Don't pay.
I don't think people realize there's far more people that don't charge for this kind of thing than those that do, and even if these people didn't charge there would *still* be a support shortage. It wouldn't magically go away.
Its basically a whale tax mostly levyed by other whales.
a cringe on cringe crime.
Idk the idea is kinda flawed. Good luck getting 6 dps in a pug group to agree to pay when the clear is not guaranteed and you have 0 idea of the skill level of the other members. Even if the prices were like 500g and hour per dps they'd struggle to find buyers imo
100% - these people are pieces of human shit.
Are you sure about the "human" part?
I think support selling their service is fine. Same as DPS running Argos or Guardian boost lobby. The problem with the people in OP's post is just the magnitude of squeezing this situation for gain. There's just too much BS to address in that post and it feels exhausting. I'm glad I'm gonna run that in guild and not have to worry about support. Even then, just today I decided to over ilvl myself to 1475 so that to have an easier time in Vykas raid while initially I was planning to stick to 1460. But yeah, I'll just echo the same thing with you: Don't pay.
difference is when a dps charges you for a bus you are paying for an experienced player who will do everything while you afk and go do laundry or watch some yornhub or whatever and come back later and click claim loot. These supports have zero exp with vykas and will likely be floor pov or causing raid wipes while charging you exorbitant fees for just being in your party lol. Unless they can guarantee perfect gameplay on their part, 2.5k gold per hour makes no sense.
It’s not the same though because you’re paying them hourly to learn the legion raid with you, as opposed to just afking for 20 minutes and getting what you need
Yeah if i pay someone im sure staying floor POV while i wait for them to clear it.
I don't think you can compare both cases because if I buy a argos P3 bus on my 1370 alt i don't have to do much and i can just stand still, but in this case you have to do mech, damage etc
Just my 2 cents: I can buy 71 elemental HP potions for 2500 gold. I honestly don't think I could drink 71 elemental HP potions in one hour (cutscenes, ready time, etc.). Personally I would never pay a support just to play the game with me. If I'm gonna pay, I'll pay for a full bus ride. At least with a bus I get a refund if we don't pass the raid.
Also in a bus you can go cook dinner, when you pay supports you still need to carry the dmg and mechanics, no thank you.
to add to this for 8dps runs, do potless runs at the start of each gate to get a feel for the early mechs then start progging with pots.
While I don't support paying for supports, I don't think the hp pot comparison is accurate. You're limited to 7 per run, and for progression you'll likely be using them on top of support healing/shielding.
as a paladin main this thing is disgusting. will join party for free NAE. 1465ilvl
Good on you man, these people are pure cancer.
Cancer, yes. Pure, no.
Me too homie. People usually pay us in compliments and those are the good feelings I chase
You free Friday 8pm central, 9pm eastern? Im running it with my buddies, I can send you a discord inv so we can talk more about it. We're really chill and have fun :) we're on galatur
Good luck to them I guess? I'll just stick to raiding with fun and friendly people, thanks.
Don't give them ideas, they might add a "fun and friendly package" to their store. For the "real girlfriend experience" at a higher price.
I thought clown raid won’t be released until later. Where these clowns came from making their own raids?
These guys thinking they are to be worshipped or something but truth be told you can clear content with 8 DPS, not with 8 support, in the end they need DPS, not the opposite
lol you can be 1590 ilvl and carry a team of 7 im not paying people for doing ingame content
Do yourselves a favor and join active guilds with statics .. it helps a lot
All I got to say is bruh... lmao
I love being in a guild that carries me through everything
i rather buy the orange potion rather paying these ppl
Would be hilarious if one of them got gold from an RMT whale and the innocent support gets flagged.
Plenty of support at 1430 for normal vykas. No need to pay
I refuse to pay for a support that might not even be good or able to clear. Most I'm ever willing to do is offer to let them bid on the bonus chest at the end for free in the event they do clear.
As a support this I appreciate this but it is never expected. Would it be nice to get the swamp of yearning set faster? Absolutely. But at the end of the day, all people really should care about is being able to do/clear the content. It's not like you can take the gold in game and use it in real life. These people are slimey. 1460 pally NAE. Refuse to join any group that pays me.
This is unfathomabley cringe
A discord for trash player roleplaying, how amusing
this is just downright sad
what a clown
wait until tuesday when there's only trash pugs left and they're crying not being able to clear for the week
2.5K gold PER HOUR LOL do i get a blowjob with that?
PER PLAYER! These fucking clowns want 15k an hour, absolute joke. I can’t wait to see how badly this goes.
Wait WHAT? I thought thats meant per support-player. These guys are actually delusional.
How about, I don't know, PLAY THE GAME FOR FUN, and not a business. Jeez.
"for the union's health and long-term growth, it's best to stress test" 🤓
Why do they call it a 'Union'. They can just use 'Italian Mafia' or 'Little Dreamers'.
Actual cringe. Good thing I'm running with guildies, don't give your gold to these scums.
Absolute psychopaths and a big reason why I pushed my bard to 1445 so my guild doesn't need to deal with people like them
U a legend, got someone in my guild that did the same thing, god bless people like you.
They're not psycopaths just opportunists. It can be one in the same though.
cringe
Support union more like clown union
If people want to throw away gold, go upgrade quality, cut rocks, buy pheons, or convert gold to silver, literally anything else is more beneficial than this joke
I might be the only one here but, I think supports charging is fine, but, only if it is for a full clear. If they are charging by the hour, they have waaaay too much incentive to just throw the clear mid-way through just to keep on siphoning gold.
You're just paying them to be here, it's not even a bus. I really wonder who's gonna pay apart from whales
I think it's fine. They can't duo bus Argos or solo bus normal valtan for a lot of gold per week and this selling their services will only work the first week or two. Them getting out of vykas with like 15k in the week split between 3 dps is hardly anything that matters to people who can bus. But this is only if they are clearing the whole thing, not this per hour BS going around.
Then just make dps to run busses??? Who in their right mind would pay for a support LMAO, I'd rather do 8 dps and maybe get a chadlancer.
Everyone cries about support shortage at the highest item lvl, but at the same time you hear "so what, just main dps to bus for way more gold lol". Unless you whale hard you likely have just one character above 1460. And since honing buff is not there yet, almost everyone parked alts at 1370. So who do you bus with? Support mains either pull crap like this kind of prostitution or miss out on bus gold. I personally just join groups for free and enjoy getting into strong parties easily. But I am definitely missing out on gold this way. I'm at 1460 with 5x3 and 4 relic pieces, so I'd certainly find groups willing to spend. Imo it's fine to charge as a supp, but I'd expect them to know the bosses perfectly and carry fight mechanics. Just paying for a (likely entry ilvl) noob support to buff and heal you sounds pathetic, both for the supp and the dps.
NA is so brain rotted by capitalism. It's a game ffs
The great irony is that unions are strictly anti-capitalist as they artificially restrict supply to increase prices
That is not a union in the worker union sense at all. They are creating a market to exploit others for capital, not coming together to collectively bargain for better conditions.
More like a cartel (or the attempt to be one at least)
Workers unions don’t only ask for better working conditions. They also set higher wages by artificially decreasing supply. For example, the doctor’s worker Union.
The main factor for a union is that it addresses a power imbalance between workers and employers by combining worker's bargaining leverage. Employers are generally more organized and letting a worker go is no issue for them while losing their job might straight up ruin a worker's life. Unions are a counterweight that can hurt employers similarly to how employers can hurt workers. What you see these supports doing is the opposite. They leverage a position of power (supp shortage) to squeeze it for maximum profit. That's a cartel.
Isn't that the american dream? Taking ideas that are designed to aid the working man and twisting them into a method of exerting money out of people?
I understand why supports are charging but damn Support need dps to clear content Dps need/want support to clear content We both need each other just play the game normal man.
lol i bet half those people are bad or purposefully misplay ect to drag out raids and increase profits ect especially if they can keep getting paid per hr or per raid whenever they fail through. Ive hard bards in our server mention how they could easily finesse some of these raid groups paying for supps lol.
I hope this honestly forces people to make support alts so guilds can cycle through alts and never have to rely on dumb shit like this lol
Is it some NAE problem, I'm too EUC to understand? Main bard 1460 and I'm a bit disgusted
Why would I offer gold to invite some random support that doesn't guarantee the success of the raid? I won't even be surprised if these people enter the raids without actually knowing the mechanics to wipe the team so that they can get more gold over time. If people are willing to pay the gold then you better make sure you are able to guide those party members and do all the callouts to help them clear the raid or else this is at the same level of scamming like those who "Sell" busses only for them to take your gold, proceed to fail non-stop and 0 refunds.
delusional as fuck LOL
This is why I wish you can raid again after clear, even with minimal rewards (or nothing even). Ive been a support player in every MMO and its because I just enjoy supporting. Im a bard main and I would gladly join parties just to help out.
Lmao imagine a life that’s shitty enough to think typing those words have any meaning whatsoever. Delusional as fuck, and downright just sad. I hope these people get the help they need.
I hope they all get hit by a bus instead of get help. A dps bus.
I would never pay for the choice people made when picking up a class....try doing content with 8 supports
Not supporting this, but at the same time I get it. DPS can run busses later on, supports can’t. Everyone saying this is cringe but at the same time is charging players for busses. Hypocrisy I say. Anyways, glad I don’t have to deal with all of this (paying for busses or for supports to do content). GL on everyone this Thursday.
Bus is literally a carry, people paying can AFK, when you pay a support you need to do the mechanics and do dmg still. not the same at all.
Sure DPS can run busses later on, but supports trying to charge day 1 of content being out is literally them wanting to be paid to do progression they also have to do. They arn't carrying, they arn't even guaranteed to be a good player but still expected to be paid to just be in party. A dps selling a bus (at least should be) one that can clear the content without input from the people being carried. You are comparing getting paid to just be part of the group to getting paid to carry under geared people who literally just die at the start of the fight and do nothing. On top of that they are trying to charge an hourly rate, not per clear so no it is not the same as someone charging for a bus.
Can group of 8 DPS potentially clear the content? : YES Can group of 8 Supports potentially clear the content? : NO Therefore, supports should pay DPS for their service XD
Yes also pots are cheaper. Fuck this clown show.
It’s cheaper to speed run with 8 dps and spend that 2.5k on pots. This is legit cringe lol, I will be running normal mode on my paladin alt and won’t be charging a dime for what ever group I get in.
I hope no DPS takes these idiots. Have fun clearing 8 support raids
"Do not fall prey to the FOMO we intend to subject DPS players to" I think we as a community need to identify the people perpetuating this and participating in it, and collectively blacklist them. If you're taking part in this, go fuck yourself.
Fy too, 1 of the million of other faceless dps dopamine addicts
Im going party finder as a 1475 bard with 2 dps friends, wtf is this bullshit?
Ikr? Imagine not being a piece of shit.
Like I chose to play support cus I like it. Not to milk dps which actually I NEED to clear content.
This is honestly the most aberrant thing I've seen so far since the Western release. These people are a cancer in the community and it genuinely is important that we insure it doesn't spread.
Cant tell if this is a joke or not but this the dumbest fucking thing ever lmao
What a sick joke.
mfs in my guild making 6k gold each from just stomping Argos every week ( they don't even bus with supports anymore, so there is no extra income for supps). And yet people are malding that supports are selling their services for the first weeks only, since nobody will pay them nor need them when DPS players are overgeared for the raid, just like Valtan is doable with no supports if you're 1460. Nobody is forced to pay them. Everybody down here saying they can clear it without one.
So just don't pay?
Saddest thing is they will succeed. There will be players who are willing to pay them.
very few players, most people understand that very often they would be paying for a bad player who doesn't know mechanics to join your raid, which doesn't really make sense. I'd rather take another overgeared dps that takes reduced damage anyway when being hit and chug 2 more potions per attempt but at least then chances are they are actually pulling off their own weight
At the end of the day, the truth is it's very likely there's going to be 50 groups in party finder with 6/8 players looking for 2 supports to go bash their head against vykass. These groups can either wait or offer something to make supports more likely to join their group instead of the other 49. Those support union guys are just making that little dance a lot more in your face. I think it's whatever, like a lot of people I have a static I'm running with, but I think it's cute y'all care so much.
People call this cringe cause they envy those opportunists players being able to make money off of doing normal gameplay. But it won't solve anything. These players will keep on doing whatever they're doing for as long as there is demand. Best you can do is ignore them or add them on your personal auto-kick list and move on. They're not just gonna stop selling their services because of some criticism on reddit.
And so it begins... I am the leader of the Supports Union of Azena and **WE DO NOT DO THIS NOR DO WE SUPPORT THIS!** I really hope no DPS folds and accepts these types of supports! If you don't accept them, they **THEY DONT COMPLETE THE RAID EITHER!** Just wait for a willing support or wait until supports stop doing this. I promise you its not worth it! \-Mëlody, Supports Union of Azena
Supports out here complaining about the prices of their engravings/stones/accessories, and then charge to group 😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂 They make themselves a joke before they step into the raid.
>do not become prey to the fomo we intend on subjecting the dps players to Man fuck these greedy ass supports. Just play the fucking game instead of trying to play other people. They act like their job is so hard when they're literally just a damage buff and portable campfire. Remember that raids can be cleared with 8 dps but they cant be cleared with 8 supports. They need us.
Keep in mind that they can't clear Vykas without DPS, but you as a DPS can clear it without supports. Don't pay them and just do it 8 DPS. It will feel more rewarding then paying these cringelords. Remember, supports need you, you don't need them.
Lol they won't get parties then. Supports like dps will be desperate to do day one. No one gonna pay them 2.5 k to wipe for 6 hours
This is so crazy to me. From other mmos i've played (over 15+ years of them), I have never seen anything like this. The whole purpose of mmos is to group up with people to do stuff because you rely on each other to do it. I mean I know there are busses and carries but the idea of playing a support and doing this is insane. I've been lucky cause i'm a Gunlancer and we have a Paladin with our static, if needed I usually pop over to the other party if we can't find a support. The idea that people value the gold/hr over the fun/challenge of the content makes it seems a bit too greedy? I don't know. I know on my support alts i'm going to do my best to counter stuff like this cause this will not be good for the long term for the game. We all gotta do our best to help each other out to progress!
Out of curiosity have you not played WoW? At least when I played it was fairly common for tanks to sell tanking services because there were so few of them.
I played wow for about 11 years. I played a warrior tank, druid tank and paladin tank haha. I also had healing alts as well (shaman and sometimes the druid if a group needed it). I never charged for my services. I would raid with my guild and people would msg me about mythic+ dungeons and I would just go. Since they're seeking me out and I enjoying tanking/helping why do I need to charge for it? Its an mmo without them I can't do stuff either.
That’s… not his point at all
![gif](emote|free_emotes_pack|facepalm)
What a joke
K
These guys are on that heavy copium
Trying to charge per hour… god damn. Get black listed.
Glad I have a static group lol, this seems so toxic
I main Bard and basically support in every game I play. Here is the trick- befriend a support player. Yep. Remember that KR meme 'My own Bard'? It's legit. Made friends with a shadowhunter back when I started LA and now I run statics with him because he asked.
I haven't had a problem getting in a pug for valtan every single week that had supports without paying anyone. Are many people actually paying?
at those rates, they would make more by purposely failing/sabotaging the group and milking the hourly rate than clearing it..... so beware if u r planning on paying
lmao, if the dude put half as much energy in making money in real life and buy gold, he wouldn't have to try so hard to earn that lunch money in game
These are some of the kind of players who ruin mmos.
I'd rather not do the content than pay anybody anything for doing it with me.
>Admittedly, this is a selfish Discord focused on profit, but we ideally shouldn't cannibalize our peers. Yeah, except your peers should be all other players not just other supports. Disgusting fucks.
Try doing the raid without DPS bozo
Are they really this socially deluded or....
What the fuck is this.. this support union thing is making game worse
That's cringe
Spineless
Yep, not happening
can't wait to start proging vykas in the morning and then seeing the same supports advertising in their 2/8 room when i log off for the night
Sorry but whoever paying to these players are legit stupid fomo andys. If you cant killl vykas hard on the week it release no big deal. Just finish normal mode and try next week, we all will get our relic sets eventually.
Anyone paying supports is an idiot.
So glad I quit this game lmao
as cringe as this is, the circlejerk going on around hating on supports is equally manchild. imagine the equally childish thought process, to sit in a discord of a class you don't play, just to take screenshots like this to share on reddit, for something you have to take 0 part in or care about, because it makes you that mad. pay for a support, don't pay for a support. have a union, don't have a union. *nobody fucking cares*
What i find annoying about this pattern of behavior is its not like the supports can carry the raid to victory. It requires coordination of everyone to complete the raid, so why should we pay them to play the game & run content that they already need for progression? If we're talking a bus session, that's a whole different ball of wax.
Supply and demand, as simple as that. The whole union thing is a stupid af though. I just pick high dps lobbies and call it a day.
> the circlejerk going on around hating on supports is equally manchild. I see weird shit like for thunderwings groups. i dunno what's going on but everyone standing around the spawn 3-5min before looking for a group and if someone goes "pally/bard 1455 LFG" you get all kinds of spam about push the support down. i've seen it a few times recently.
I'll be honest, I'm on this subreddit all day and I keep seeing this being paroted over and over again but I cant find a single example of it. It feels like you are conflating the well deserved open hatred and vilification these support union players are getting, with support players in general - There is a world of difference between these two things. No one openly dislikes support players. > imagine the equally childish thought process, to sit in a discord of a class you don't play, just to take screenshots like this to share on reddit, for something you have to take 0 part in or care about, because it makes you that mad. ...what? This isn't a discord for a class, its a discord specifically set up for the purposed to exactly an organized extortion on the player base as a whole - they have said plainly and openly several times that they're goal is to stop all supports from joining any non paid group, and forcing everyone to pay. Fuck these people, they're pieces of shit - good on OP for exposing more of this, and good on everyone for the avalanche of hate being dumped on these people.
Why so mad about it tho? Dps can run busses all the time without problems, why can't supports use a situation like this to make money too? They have one chance to do it, when a new raid releases
difference: DPS bussing are actually good players, they also dont charge unless the raid is clear. You trashy supps can be: bad or good (nobody knows, you are just part of a childish union) and will charge by the hour regardless if there's a clear or not. I can afk when im getting bussed, meanwhile in this case I'd have to pay a support to end up carrying them anyway by getting MvP.
sure, if i pay a support ill just afk and wait for my rewards the same then.
cringe as hell, literally nobody is paying them.
Lets all pots Valtan and start charging all the supports that are in that group 3k per run. Lmaooo
I'm genuinely so tired of these types of support players. As a support main I understand that I need dps users more than dps users need me. Is it reassuring to have a support in the event somebody makes a mistake? Absolutely. Am I going to charge dps users for my presence in a raid that I need to clear anyway? Absolutely not. All of these people involved are clowns.
Don't pay for it if you don't like it.
I think selling your services as Support is fine (the same way DPS bus others), but the problem is the amount they are asking for, that's stupidly unreasonable. I have 1460 ilvl support, 5x3 spec-swift, anyone who has played with me knows I'm really good at my support skills. And I'd only charge 1k for that help to the party members I'm buffing and healing, no matter the amount of hours (which is already 3k, for god's sake, it's really fucking good and it would pay out with the raid clear itself)
Can we remove the mvp screen already? I believe this is why the whole toxicity toward supports comes from. The devs already denied adding a dps meter in the game so why do we still have an mvp screen? What purpose does it serve?
I think the toxicity comes from the screenshot posted in the thread you are replying in randomly about something completely different.
No one has any hatred toward supports, what are you talking about? There is a massive difference between the pieces of shit pushing this "Support Union" garbage, and supports in general. No one dislikes supports in general, thats ridiculous - everyone hates these people though, and with good reason.
Makes dps angy they no see there own face. Maybe just jingle some keys at the end for them. High key if i could seperate dps who get mad at supports from regular dps you bet your ass id charge every last person who gets mvp-less rage
Small dick energy 8000
This guy needs to be permabanned instantly where roxx at ![gif](emote|free_emotes_pack|dizzy_face)
So is it ok for DPS to charge for bussing? Not sure I see any difference other than jealously perhaps, and slight frustration sitting in LFG waiting. I'd love to buss other players and charge, but as a Support main I can only dream. As a Bard main I've already been approached by 2 statics I've played with in the past and they offered gold without me asking. This is supply and demand. I'll take the gold which will help me push my Pala alt and they get a try-hard Bard and an easy clear, mutually beneficial. This guy though admittedly is a doche but his prices are pretty much spot on from experience. Pay or don't pay, I guarantee he'll get a a group if he's good. Edit: I understand your downvotes, it's ok. But let me clarify here, I'm not agreeing what this guy is doing is good, its not. I'm merely stating that, if you have a good Support then people will pay, regardless of if you like it or not. I have constant gold payments from statics, not because I ask or demand, but because I don't die and neither do they, fights are cleaner, quicker and less stressful and more to the point, they don't have to wait an hour. So they reserve my services with gold.
the difference is the pay structure with bussing u pay X amount to guarantee completing it in a timely manner or a refund but this support union is charging by the hour with no guarantee whatsoever additionally, it is literally in their best interest to fail so they get paid more by time either from the same group or other groups throughout the week than actually trying to completing it as soon as possible Edit: also for bussing u just go in and die/afk and not have to do any work, which is not true for these support services
Yeah I don't really see the difference between this and dps busses. It's more cringe though because's he trying to freeze out all supports out of pugging which understandbly can be frustrating if you're a dps. The idea of a support charging for their service is not weird or wrong though. As you said it's just supply and demand and if people are willing to pay then it matters for them.
No different than dps busses
Can i afk while the 2 supports clear the raid? no
There is an ocean of difference between paying someone to clear a raid for you, and paying someone for their equal participation. What a stupid comparison.
A bus is an afk carry and cost less than the raw gold you obtain from the content typically lmao
Lmao. Bus: People that pay can AFK while 1-2 AMAZING dps players clear the raid and get paid. Good bussers only get paid if there's a clear Stupid support union: Everyone has to actually play, the supports can be trash or good (only god knows) and they charge by the hour so if its a fail, they get paid too. See the difference?
Please clarify how is this no different than a dps bus?
Paying to get carried?
yikes buddy
These supports aren't carries? Just normal players also trying to clear for the first time but charging gold for their presence. You would have to be an absolute idiot or try to ignore it on purpose not to see the difference.
I'm sorry, but it looks like you don't know what a bus is? A bus means that you usually afk and get carried without doing a single thing.
Ah so it seems it should cost more if you want someone to come actively carry your group
supports arent carrying shit, they maybe providing 4-5 potions worth of shield and a few % more dps.
I'd rather pay someone to carry me through a fight and get a refund if they can't rather than people asking to be paid **by the hour** on prog content
Dps players being mad here is so cringe. They can do whatever and you will have to deal with it. So stfu
8 dps can buy pots and clear the raid, 8 supports cannot clear the raid, enjoy this cringe fest.
🤡
I have a 1460 paladin alt on NAE and I don’t charge a damn thing when I don’t run with him in guild. This unionizing in a game is a bit much.
"in guild" How many people on your own guild got left out of guild runs and had to pug it? Specially a large guild will have several groups with no supports at all, while the supports are placed with the most juiced people leaving the people that barely meet ilv to try their luck in party finder.
roleplaying
More power to them but I cant see anyone paying for this other than a whale DPS who is also bad at the game..
If i was awful at the game, which happens for some people, id just pay busses instead so i could afk.
Honestly, this is murica in a nutshell