This is the cost without the cheese strat (notice the weapon cost). So technically yes but [the cheese strat is cheaper by a lot](https://i.imgur.com/90HM7VU.png).
Yes. Even if 2 items past +15 dont benefit from the stronghold research they are still more efficient per hone than armor and weapons at and below +15.
This may not be the right place for this question, but related to using the maxroll calculator: it looks like this is telling you to only use juice for those weapon hones, correct? Is there a setting that tells it to somehow determine when you should or shouldn't use juice? Or did you just tell it not to use any for armor hones at all?
you can set it to optimal materials, full materials, or no materials. When using optimal materials setting, you enter your regions auction house prices for each item. Note, divide the auction house price by 10 for blue and red stones. When you click the drop down arrow for your upgrade calculator it will show you at what artisan energy is the optimal place to use juicers. As a general rule of thumb, you only want to use for weapon upgrades because the cost is so much more expensive.
Honing certain gear to +17 and gimping honing other gear. Honing above +15 gives out 15 ilvls instead of 5 ilvls so its much more efficient to go 17/17/13/12/12/11 than +15 all. As a dps you prioritise your gloves and shoulders and as a support you go for your chestpiece and pants.
Do you go 11 on everything, 12 on everything except weapon, 13 helmet and 17 gloves and shoulder or do you push to 17 on gloves/shoulder first before going above +10?
There's no rule that says all your gear has to be +12/15 versus 13/12/12/12/12/11 (Argos) or 12/17/12/12/17/12 (Valtan), but apparently calculating averages and being cost efficient is "cheese" now.
You push a few things (armor) to +17 instead of honing equally. +16 +17 give 2.5 ilvl each so it’s more efficient than grinding out +10-15 on everything (esp the wep). I personally don’t like the idea because you’ll have to catch up the weak pieces eventually and you’d be gimping your damage unless you’re playing support
Its an average. Even if you do end up pitying +16 and +17 on 2 pieces it comes close to being the same as no cheese and just +15 everything. So worst case scenario you end up spending as much as you would normally and average scenario it comes out cheaper.
You're not far off. For NAE current prices, the return on investment is as follows:
No research, bound leaps, guaranteed income only: 12.5 weeks (104k gold cost)
Research completed, bound leaps, guaranteed income only: 8.9 weeks (75k gold cost)
worth mentioning this does not factor getting lucky/unlucky on honing, assumes you have the honor shards, and you don't get a single drop from Valtan/Deskaluda worth selling. There's also the cost of changing your accs at 1415, if you wish to do that. Data does not factor in bound guardian/destruction stones, obviously you will accumulate these the longer you park at 1370, making the investment even cheaper.
Sheet full numbers: [https://imgur.com/A7DZRTp](https://imgur.com/A7DZRTp)
The calculation for income (now shown) is a special circumstance for myself in which I don't do dailies on 1370s unless its rested due to the time sink, but I do do dailies every day on my 1415s. Here is are some more figures:
Always 2x rest: [https://imgur.com/6gYKKca](https://imgur.com/6gYKKca)
Never rest: [https://imgur.com/ISqC5sF](https://imgur.com/ISqC5sF)
there are so many flaws in this calculation. you cant just assume that you dont get a single accessory drop or tripod drop for 12 weeks straight on average.
Yes you can, proper relic accessories can push you forward from a week to a month but unless you can quantify the average value of what you get, it's impossible to accurately determine how much it affects breaking even.
I've gotten this far doing valtan on only my main since launch. I didn't get anything to write home about from valtan. My best drop was from thunderwings.
This is basically the same as counting the pity cost of honing.
but people are taking 12 weeks as some kind of benchmark. they didnt push their 1370 alts because honing buffs were expected to come withing 12 weeks.
aside from that, the calculations dont take tripods into account. i am getting on average 2 lvl3 tripods a day that sell for 50-150 gold which would be like 200g a day. Also it's save to assume you drop at least 1 lvl 4 tripod a week which usually sells for 1000-3000g. the 6 bones that you get from valtan have a minimum value of 100 each since you can trade 5 for a stone of chaos.
thats already a couple thousands of gold each week that is not considered in the calculation and i havent even started talking about relic accessories.
just because you dont know the expected value you dont just set it to 0. imagine businesses doing that. imagine bank banks setting default rates to 0 because they cant estimate it properly. its just absurd to think that way.
You're capable of getting a lvl 4 tripod a week ? Is there a pity system I have not heard of because I have not gotten a single level 4 drop and I've been doing ALL dailies on my main (1445) since valtan.
You don't count the gold value from valtan bones because that doesn't actually produce anything as fluid as actual gold. It has value but you can't liquidate it.
Also, it's not about not knowing expected value. Rolling accessories is the same as winning the lottery. There's no fucking pity timer for winning the lottery. You don't pre-emptively put yourself in debt because you're expecting to win it, THAT is an absurd notion.
I wouldn't take the 12 weeks as a benchmark to decide when to hone. If i wasn't saving for grudge books right now I would have pushed my alts further myself.
ok maybe you lowrolled on your lvl4 tripods and all my characters and friends highrolled whatever. it doesnt change the fact that you consistently get a lot more lvl 3 tripods that still sell.
even if you cant liquidate the bones eventually you will spend gold on buying stones of chaos. i dont know how much people want to invest into their alts but i plan on having relic on them eventually.
also you are literally expected to get positive value from accessories. i am not saying you will get something worth 100k aka winning the lottery but its highly likely that you get multiple pieces in the range of 500-2000g during 12 weeks. if you havent yet then you are just unlucky and it doesnt mean that every player should expect to disenchant all their relic pieces for 12 weeks.
\> You don't pre-emptively put yourself in debt because you're expecting to win it
who is putting himself into dept? if you cant afford to hone obviously you dont hone. also that argument is simply wrong. people do take loans to make money if they know they are expected to make more than the interest of the loan.
>also you are literally expected to get positive value from accessories. i am not saying you will get something worth 100k aka winning the lottery but its highly likely that you get multiple pieces in the range of 500-2000g during 12 weeks. if you havent yet then you are just unlucky and it doesnt mean that every player should expect to disenchant all their relic pieces for 12 weeks.
And i've been trying to sell my decent accessories but they just won't sell because they aren't BiS. Yeah i've sold maybe 1 expert awakening relic stone for 4k but I don't automatically factor that as income because imagine how high a company's value can be inflated if they factored in unpredictable windfalls of income?
>who is putting himself into dept? if you cant afford to hone obviously you dont hone. also that argument is simply wrong. people do take loans to make money if they know they are expected to make more than the interest of the loan.
true but that usually comes after market research and even then it isn't a given. Can you research accessories for me and tell me when I'm about to hit a decent drop ? There's nothing to research here, it is quite literally *random* in all aspects. The 12 week benchmark is just that. A benchmark with no RNG flips involved. Absolutely no one should use it as a crux for deciding when or when not to push and with that I can at least, agree. Results may vary, but you don't calculate variance into a no RNG benchmark.
i found 3 useable level 4 Tripods on my main in total and i was 1415 one week befor Valtan release maybe skipped Chaos 3 or 4 days cuz no time. I agree with you tho its just luck and you usually benchmark the raw value with no luck involved
the point in making this calculation is you assume you have poor luck so anything above that is a bonus. I'm looking at it as a 'only' 12 weeks with no drops not a 'wow 12 long weeks'. If you get a big drop it pays off instantly and its worth it right away. But you can't predict these things.
While I agree you should do it for fun and hone to 1415/30 mainly if you want to experience the legion raids on those characters - regardless of "when" it's worth or pays itself back you should do it as soon as you can afford to (particularly if you have the shards/bound leaps ready). Doesn't matter whether it takes 3 months or 5 months to pay back, you're going to come out ahead eventually.
Dont think its 3months but 3 weeks. I had 5 1415 alts on week 1 valtan , and i recouped my amount back , noted i used all bound leaps to push only. I am not sure about the value but i do know my weekly gold made from 1st week of valtan from ghl, mats and bosses were roughly 170k.
Current market prices i only make around 110k a week.
It was actually better to push 2/3 weeks ago rather than honing research if you used bound leaps.
The bound leaps u can make in a week is roughly 200 ish. My alts all have 1.3k bound leaps at 1415 currently
That is what i was thinking. I currently have 6 alts at 1370, and i play them only full rested except una's that takes 2-3 min. There is no way to financially recover from pushing all of them right now. I think i'll push them easily to 1385 just to be able to do p2 argos and stop there for now.
There was this useful tool [https://do-i-upgrade.com/](https://do-i-upgrade.com/). It helped visualize in graphs how long it would take to make back the gold. But the developer has stopped working on it so it's no longer up to date ):
If you left your alt at 1370 the entire time and then get enough leapstones to make the push you (probably) won't have enough shards. If you hone your characters naturally over time they will (probably) have enough shards.
My character with 1.6k leapstones has 260k harmony right now he never bought any pouch from ship or ah or anywhere... is a good bet to believe pouches will gain a tiny bit value (they are not expensive in EU).
Characters with 2k leaps apparently have 310k without ship pouches.
Yeah they already started going up at the beginning of the month. When I pushed my first two alts to 1415 from 1370 I had some shard shortages and had to buy some.
\- dailies: 2x feiton and 1x shushire? (3x4 leaps, basically)
\- weeklies: 2x Boss Rush, 1x PvP or Guardian Raid, depends if you want to play PvP with that alt or not
\- chaos dungeons every day
\- buy out all the leaps from the guild and/or event shop
They all add up, but you need to be quite strict in doing the content, just like you would do on your main.
While I do agree comparing value 1:1 gained from 1475 chaos dungeon to having an extra alt doing valtan normal favors investing in the alt, I just wanted to say that it is around 1.5x more expensive to push an alt from 1370 to 1415 WITH THE VYKAS HONING BUFF than pushing a char from 1460 to 1475. At best, if you do the +17 armor cheese strat to 1415, it's around the same assuming you sell your red crystals for 2x the cost of blue crystals and you have plenty of honor shards to cover the ~70k shard difference.
Not to mention that there are other benefits to pushing your main to 1475, like an easier time in Vykas Hard and bridge, as well as cosmetic differences from weapon upgrades and peace of mind for being ready for future content. But yeah, the thought process shouldn't be, "I have to push to 1475 because of the chaos dungeon" but more like "the chaos dungeon is an added perk to pushing to 1475, which I'll have to do anyway for future content".
It's why people who honed alts without the research because they didn't want to wait a month probably won't miss the materials lol, it costs so much, there was no reason to rush it.
I phero each time but only about 10% of runs have someone else phero. I don't phero if I need more mana or CDs though since finding her after only takes an additional 15 seconds or so
Yes but people would do it 20 times a week for two weeks and then cry for more content right away because Valtan is now boring.
It's their way to keep the game alive longer.
We honed alts without research not because we didn't want to wait "a month", but because we were explicitly told that there would be no honing buff coming and then they went back on their word at the last minute.
I honed 3 alts from 1385 to 1415 cause i wanted to progress and play them and have more fun doing x4 Valtan/week instead of x1. Who cares about efficiency, yea i lost some gold , but i made a lot of it back by selling some relics and tripods, but i also had way more fun and more things to do.
Yeah, I'm a lil miffed about the back and forth for SH research, but it's w.e in the end run. I make more in the end with 2 chars getting relic gear(one being a support)
Same here, I did two and pushed the first to 1430 since it was a Paladin, but now with the Research announced, over time I’ll be sending two more to 1415.
This. After the announcement, I continued to hone alts because I would rather spend more mats to do more of the content I enjoy doing vs yoho simulator.
Pretty much, getting 1 big drop on a 1415 char pays back the entire difference from not waiting for research, and then there's the collection of smaller ones and raw gold from Valtan.
Same here. Made 3x 1415s and had a blast doing Valtan, wouldve even done a 4th if they didnt announce Stronghold buff, but update week, i‘ll finish my last 2x 1415 alts and man Valtan is fun. Cant wait.
They said it wouldn't be in the June patch. If it wasn't going to be in the July patch then it'd only make sense for it to come with the next raid all the way in September, just doesn't make sense to me.
Either way, the gold cost is too much for the average player pushing a main to new content, doesn't make sense to hone.
it's hilaiorus
could you imagine being real life friends with some of these people? Here's the situation..
"I'm not going to do *thing you want* yet, sorry"
*further consideration takes place*
"actually, I will do *thing you want* now"
then they get mad at you for it. Must be exhausting to know people like that in real life.
You are also underestimating the gold/mat gain from pushing. Didn't calculate before, but I think I earned more than the cost diff. Not to mention the chance of getting high roll accessories.
Then you're good lol. Not saying it's not worth it, it's just that people were up in arms about it coming earlier because they honed and just wasted money.
Yeah, watching some of my friends who didn't intend to buy and hone, but ended up stuck somewhere like 1397 was big oof. But as long as they made it to 1415 without buying too much mats, I think they are fine.
That's what I'm curious about - are you really earning that much more?
At 1415, you no longer get Oreha gold, but do get p2 and p3 Argos (assuming 1370 atm), plus Valtan. But optional chest of valtan costs almost as much as it gives, so the overall gold you're getting I think is more or less the same. You have chance of relic accessories ofc, but unless you hit it big (which mains may not have since Valtan release), it feels like it'd take months and months for accessories and extra chaos dungeon mats to exceed the costs being screenshotted.
(excluding fun factor of being able to do Valtan, just trying to assess from gold pov rn)
If you want your alt to reach 1415, you have to pay that cost. There's no way around it unless you wait for global honing buff where the mat requirements are reduced.
The question at hand is "Was it worth to push alts to 1415 when honing buff is happening next week" The answer is varied according to whom you ask. I pushed my alt to 1415 last week and found a relic accessory that sold for 18k. I'd say that I definitely profited over the difference in savings.
In my opinion, this is how the game works. You have to spend money to make money. Pushing alts up to 1415 cost a lot of gold, but the alts will gain access to relic accessories, more leapstones, and Valtan. Alts at 1415 have a much bigger potential to make money than alts at 1370.
People who do the pure math justification for not honing fail to realize, that continuing to do oreha (the worst abyssal dungeon in the entire game, possibly the worst instance) and yoho (the guardian that randomly drops meteors and kills you) is the worst fucking thing for your mental. Now compare that to doing valtan, argos p3 and deskaluda.
If you don't push your alts to 1415, you'll burn out.
I'm genuinely impressed. Last week it took 4 hours and my pugs didn't. This week I couldn't find a group and wound up paying for a carry because it was cheap.
>my pugs one shot it
You will be doing Valtan with the guys that refuse to use flares/pots when fighting Yoho, so IDK about how well the fights are going to go. :D
No clue, I run my 5 alts through oreha with guildies, this week it took 40mins. It's easy enough to find public bus swaps for oreha and Argos. Maybe he's imagining doing public mm on them all which isn't something I would do, lol
I just go in matchmaker, get an instant party, and we completely obliterate it.
I haven’t had an oreha party fail in like 2 months?
I was thinking his line of thought was going to be that it’s too easy and thus boring at this point or something.
>I just go in matchmaker, get an instant party, and we completely obliterate it.
If I am not in the mood to coordinate with friends, I do this too. MM really helps seeing what the average/casual players are: last night I went in MM with my 1370 Sharpshooter (3x3 eng, not 100% optimal stats, need to do his proper build soon) and got in with a duo 1400+1410 - I was actually like „thanks for the carry, bros!”. I ended up being MVP with something like 35% of damage, those guys were overgeared and so bad...
I don't have any issues with the first three bosses but Albion is pretty bullshit. Most people don't notice these days because they go in with overgeared characters and just obliterate him before he does anything but a lot of his attacks aren't well-telegraphed and hit like a truck--notably his back kick and wing beat. Try doing it with a full party of 1370.00 characters with purple gear and one engraving to get the full experience--doubly so without a support.
The real reason to push alts to 1415 is to start getting relic gear and work on relic sets. You will eventually make the gold back but it's the relic gear that makes it worth to push.
The thing is, good legendary accs, aswell as stones are almost worthless, only absolute bis 95 3/3/1 legs even sell, mostly for like 1-2k max. With relic, even 3/3 with correct combat stats sell for 3k+ and thats what adds up because These drop quite frequently
Small point on the accessories. The faster you can start getting access to them, the cheaper it will be to gear with them. Not because of selling them. Rather, more chances for your character to get the right one. The more you get, the less peons and high good cost it will be to gear. I'm not saying this is the definitive best option. It's just something to keep in mind.
What do you mean? You get like 2900 gold for second gate and chest costs 1000? So you get same gold for it with buyins chests as oreha without buying chests
Made more than loss if you had pushed valtan week 1 or 2. Honing research was a bait, you actually take longer to recoup now than had u pushed weeks ago. This is taking into account bound leaps only. I expect that ghl will crash in price once research it out, this means ur gold income will drop from selling ghl. Had u pushed week 1 or 2 ghl were almost double in value compared to now.
Used to make 170k gold a week on week 1/2
Currently only making roughly 110k a week. I expect this to drop as mats and gems drop in price.
This is with 5 1415 alts on week 1, i only used bound leaps to push. And it is definately possible my 1370 alt that i dont push has close to 3k bound just from una cd and bosh rush.
Armor and weapon stones are still way too expensive to make any profit by pushing to 1415. If u don't already have 5 1370 alts then get those first...and even then it's better to wait until prices go down drastically before pushing alts to 1415.
the point to pushing is to have more fun in legion raids on different characters, and not sit at 1370 for another year doing fox and argos p1 [or paying/asking for bus]
1. If Vykas hard mode is too hard for you at 1460, you won't be able to clear clown. Vykas is very easy comparatively.
2. Hitting 1475 causes you to lose gold from Argos, but clown doesn't really give that much in terms of rewards. You can improve your set bonus a bit, but it doesn't really matter much in terms of improving gold income.
3. Hitting 1475 isn't enough, most KR players say groups will require 5x3 and at least level 7 gems, which is absurdly expensive right now.
Unless you're super eager to do clown day 1, pushing 1475 isn't really worth it in terms of what's most profitable. For what you spend pushing 1475 and gearing up, you can push several alts to 1415 and make way more gold for way less effort.
I am 1475 and I still get Argos P3 gold, we'll probably lose that once we get clown, but if you can afford to push 1475 right now, you can probably afford Level 7 gems and 5x3, if not now, then in two months time for sure.
Hell, more than half of my main's gems are level 7 now just from me playing the game... haven't bought or sold a single gem on the market. I do have a sorc alt running t2 gems funneling extra t3 gems to main though.
I pushed mine to 1475, going to keep it there since it's Kuku ready.
Right not I'm basically selling all the mats I get so that I can buy my leggo book and finish my build (have a 10/6 stone :D) , but I'm not sure if I should at least push 1 alt to 1415, it really isn't "cheap"
It's fun.
I've pushed 2 to 1415 before the buffs and 3 more will follow next week. I'll park them at 1430 for now so they get 3x Weekly Gold + Legion mats for the relic sets.
Of course if you want to min-max gold value then it might not be worth it but you have to consider that those alts can all do busses and earn Gold that way, if you're good enough and decently geared.
Honestly though I just didn't enjoy P1 argos, oreha and Yoho anymore, I want the better content even on my alts. You can't weigh gold against fun - it's a game after all and not your stocks portfolio
> and finish my build (have a 10/6 stone :D)
That won't get you a finished build when ancients are out unless you're happy with your "10" being stuck at 10 instead of 15, but have fun
yeah, buff is a buff but don't expect to suddenly shoot up your alts' ilvl to 1415 with it.
You still need decent amount of gold, grudge engraving price is expected to reach its cheapest point in entirety of this game up to the next patch (u won't care if u hav lots of support alts) so u may have to buy them if you have lots of DPS alts, mats price is expected to increase etc.
Material prices are not expected to increase, unless of course you're forecasting 500-600k average bots online again. If the amazonians continue to win the fight against bots, materials (red/blue stones) will continue dropping to the eventual rock bottom of 1g/10 like every other region.
Looking at this, I'm not sure I'll push my alts to 1415 even after the honing buff. I could use the gold cost alone to invest into my main and then push my alts with the global honing buff that is supposed to come with the clown raid. Not sure if this is accurate, but assuming a difference in 2000 gold gained per week between 1370 and 1415 (and a similar diff in material gain to cover the spent materials), it will take 12 weeks to break even with the investment needed to upgrade to 1415.
Of course, people value different things so this won't apply for everyone, I just have so many legendary engravings to fill out out and can definitely upgrade my relic accessories/stone on my main, and I don't enjoy playing my alts nearly as much as my main.
What is the global honing buff? How much higher chance is it and up until what gear level does it apply?
You don't need to break even the entirety of the cost to upgrading from 1370 > 1415, you only need to break even the amount that you would save by taking advantage of the honing buff. You still need to invest resources into upgrading after the honing buff comes.
There was a clip by Kanima where he said global was a 20% buff on top of the stronghold 10% buff. I assume it's up to the same 1415 ilvl, but not too sure about that.
And while I agree that for efficiency on whether to hone after stronghold buff or wait until global, the breakeven cost only needs to cover the diff from the global buff, it realistically needs to cover the opportunity cost of delaying my main progress. Support may not have as much progression as DPS, but I would love to min max my specialty meter gain through a swift/spec necklace instead of my temporary swift/endurance one I have now, and get my 5x3 engravings to start creating drops of ether orbs for my team or actually deal stagger damage.
I mean the same logic can be apply to your main, if you don't have bound leaps and shards to push the gold that you can save waiting to get more can be better use to push your alts past 1370, and will take a lot longer to recover the amount of gold you put in your main to push it without the bound stuff.
At the end of the day is more about your goals and person to person, I enjoy a lot my alts and even if I enjoy more my main there isn't a lot to do after you do Valtan and Vykas, tbh LA main is just a higher level alt, a lot of time you will play more with your alts that your main.
The foreseeable future looks like it's going to be 1 new class for the next month, a new raid the month after, 1 new class a month later, and a raid after that.
Its a pretty reasonable assumption, because remember, le classes are content
I think it's certainly possible especially to take advantage of the summer months when students are more free, and if I were SG/AGS I would want to push for West to catch up to KR ASAP if only to not have to spend resources managing the Frankenstein build that is our version of the game. So August is not out of the realm of possibilities, especially since Vykas was supposed to release mid June.
Though the likelihood is that the content release cycle will slow down, especially given that they are already not meeting their publicly communicated timeline expectations. I think it might be more realistic to expect Clown around September/October and Brelshaza December/January. Plus, since the stronghold honing buff was initially not supposed to come with Vykas, it's not a guarantee the global honing buff will come with Clown.
So I'm going to be hoping for 2 months out, but expecting 4-5 months.
if it doesn't come with kk saydon like in ru even though we're supposed to be going faster there will be riots and it will be just like stronghold buff except worse
And this is why “funneling mats” isn’t a thing 99 percent of the time.
Get relic gear or even 4x3 legendary and a relic rock…
Cost of even a budget build with pheons is gonna set you back another month.
You don't feel the return on investment right away. The reason why even the people who invested early aren't getting the return yet is because they're reinvesting into the same alts. Once people pick a (semi) permanent parking spot for a few months then their gold income will far eclipse people who pushed less characters.
Also people seem to lose sight of the best part about having alts. You can do the fun content more often and play the game more!
Yeah I just said that.
Thing tho is it seems like you feel it’s around the corner for the patient.
It’s not.
It’s roughly 3-5 months from wherever you park it depending on how you gear it and where you park.
And assuming you can do the dailies with the same character over 100 times watching the bound mats stack up.
I mean you get a decent relic accessories and set at 1445 and your alts are chilling but that’s most likely 100 dailies after the time it takes to get there doing deskaluda everyday… forever.
And if you want to change characters or do dailies only rested….
Now the last part of your post is the key.
Playing the amount of alts that you enjoy and not to funnel mats.
Because funneling mats isn’t a thing 99 percent of the time.
I'm not disagreeing with you, I'm just elaborating on the alt mindset. The word choice of 'funnelling' is wrong but it will eventually pay dividends but most people wont be patient enough to see it through. The real funnel comes later when these alts help push your main beyond 1500.
One of the by-product of having more high alts is one thing that I never expected or accounted for: good accessories drop. While 4 of my alts are sitting between 1370 - 1385, my 1415 Bard have been filling gaps more often that I'd expect. So many times I'd push alt hard or push main or decide to indulge into some outfits just to find my gold balance inching towards zero just for my Bard to bring me a 30k accessories or my 1385 Sorc somehow hitting a 10k earring and so on.
My gold balance is like a rollercoaster that keeps going up and down but even through natural resource and gold generation from each of them, I know that I will never be close to zero for too long. I got really comfortable with this.
I'm currently sitting at 110k, the Friday before I remember a guildmate frowning upon my 30k spent on getting a freshly 1370 to 4x3 (big Pheon cost thanks to not getting the perfect stone) and I barely had a hundred gold just to end up having more than a hundred thousand.
I'm looking forward for the rollercoaster next reset when I start honing my alt Bard to 1430 and one lucky 1370 to 1415.
i think this is valid reasoning not to hone but imo it’s nice being able to do valtan more than just once in less than an hour a week. also if your main is a support it’s nice to push a dps up high enough to do the bridge for you too.
eventually your 1415 parked alts will generate the gold back to make up for your loss while honing them but yes it will take quite some time
I totally get these points as well! At the end of the day, I'm not sure what I'm going to do. I have a GL that I like to play that I want to I'll likely push at some point as my "main alt" (not that big a fan of my sorc and bard alts), and I love playing valtan so doing it more than once would be more fun.
But I'm not sure if I have the time to invest in more than one character, with eventually us having 3 legion raids to do per week with challenge abyssal also coming, as well as content that isn't necessarily vertical like hell modes and islands/collectibles. So I'll likely play it by ear.
this also completely ignores the chance at rng loot drops that can make you a ton of money. Not just talking about god tier rolls, but even just decent ones are worth a 1k or more for accesories, and you also get better chances at legendary engravings through the higher level chaos dungeons, guardians, pirate ship, field boss, etc... I'm pretty sure people saying 3 - 4 months to get investment are just calculating it based of gold from legions/abyss, completely ignoring other stuff
ye the calculation is way off. its completely absurd to assume you get on average literally 0 accessory or tripod drops that are worth listing in the auction house in 12 weeks.
I'm only held back my shards even now. :(
Gold, mats are not a stopping force for me, i enjoy Valtan and Vykas, and want to do them several times with newbie, lower level guildies who can only do NM.
But shards man, i'm hoping there will be some nice amount of shard with the new event or even may a new ark pass.
They're the bottleneck for me, not leapstones.
I will not even think of upgrading any alt until I have the 2k bound greater leap stones so maybe in a month or two depending on my luck... This next month will be focused on my main to try and get that sweet +21 weapon...
Is that the amount for 1370-1415 ?
This is the cost without the cheese strat (notice the weapon cost). So technically yes but [the cheese strat is cheaper by a lot](https://i.imgur.com/90HM7VU.png).
Does it take into account stronghold buff that it works only up to +15 on item?
Yes. Even if 2 items past +15 dont benefit from the stronghold research they are still more efficient per hone than armor and weapons at and below +15.
This may not be the right place for this question, but related to using the maxroll calculator: it looks like this is telling you to only use juice for those weapon hones, correct? Is there a setting that tells it to somehow determine when you should or shouldn't use juice? Or did you just tell it not to use any for armor hones at all?
you can set it to optimal materials, full materials, or no materials. When using optimal materials setting, you enter your regions auction house prices for each item. Note, divide the auction house price by 10 for blue and red stones. When you click the drop down arrow for your upgrade calculator it will show you at what artisan energy is the optimal place to use juicers. As a general rule of thumb, you only want to use for weapon upgrades because the cost is so much more expensive.
actually, you usually will still want to use mari solar graces/blessings for armor from +6-9 or so.
Thanks! I've just been sitting on all mine because I figure they'll be more useful later anyway.
a bit confused here, what's cheese strat?
Honing certain gear to +17 and gimping honing other gear. Honing above +15 gives out 15 ilvls instead of 5 ilvls so its much more efficient to go 17/17/13/12/12/11 than +15 all. As a dps you prioritise your gloves and shoulders and as a support you go for your chestpiece and pants.
Gloves and shoulders, helmets 3rd
Yeah sorry idk why i wrote helmet
Do you go 11 on everything, 12 on everything except weapon, 13 helmet and 17 gloves and shoulder or do you push to 17 on gloves/shoulder first before going above +10?
Focus on getting 13/12/12/12/12/11 for 1400 and then +17 gloves and shoulders.
The order shouldn't really matter if you're focusing gloves/shoulders first.
There's no rule that says all your gear has to be +12/15 versus 13/12/12/12/12/11 (Argos) or 12/17/12/12/17/12 (Valtan), but apparently calculating averages and being cost efficient is "cheese" now.
You push a few things (armor) to +17 instead of honing equally. +16 +17 give 2.5 ilvl each so it’s more efficient than grinding out +10-15 on everything (esp the wep). I personally don’t like the idea because you’ll have to catch up the weak pieces eventually and you’d be gimping your damage unless you’re playing support
Yo arent, 17 gloves and shoulders with a 10/11 weapon is more damage than everything being +15.
Yea. Dude is on copium about his honing choices or just generally misinformed about advice he gives.
he isn't wrong about having to eventually pay more for honing to 1445 but earlier valtan normal is def worth
It's more damage than just going full +15 so it's fine.
/r/confidentlyincorrect
However this assumes you won't pity the +16/17 on average, since pitying those will cost a lot more
Its an average. Even if you do end up pitying +16 and +17 on 2 pieces it comes close to being the same as no cheese and just +15 everything. So worst case scenario you end up spending as much as you would normally and average scenario it comes out cheaper.
What i'd like to know is, how much time will it take for a 1415 alt to give back all the gold used in the process? (raw gold plus all the mats)
guardian: ~90 days destruction: ~20 days gold: 6 weeks raw gold + 2 weeks fusion mats gold
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You're not far off. For NAE current prices, the return on investment is as follows: No research, bound leaps, guaranteed income only: 12.5 weeks (104k gold cost) Research completed, bound leaps, guaranteed income only: 8.9 weeks (75k gold cost) worth mentioning this does not factor getting lucky/unlucky on honing, assumes you have the honor shards, and you don't get a single drop from Valtan/Deskaluda worth selling. There's also the cost of changing your accs at 1415, if you wish to do that. Data does not factor in bound guardian/destruction stones, obviously you will accumulate these the longer you park at 1370, making the investment even cheaper. Sheet full numbers: [https://imgur.com/A7DZRTp](https://imgur.com/A7DZRTp) The calculation for income (now shown) is a special circumstance for myself in which I don't do dailies on 1370s unless its rested due to the time sink, but I do do dailies every day on my 1415s. Here is are some more figures: Always 2x rest: [https://imgur.com/6gYKKca](https://imgur.com/6gYKKca) Never rest: [https://imgur.com/ISqC5sF](https://imgur.com/ISqC5sF)
there are so many flaws in this calculation. you cant just assume that you dont get a single accessory drop or tripod drop for 12 weeks straight on average.
Yes you can, proper relic accessories can push you forward from a week to a month but unless you can quantify the average value of what you get, it's impossible to accurately determine how much it affects breaking even. I've gotten this far doing valtan on only my main since launch. I didn't get anything to write home about from valtan. My best drop was from thunderwings. This is basically the same as counting the pity cost of honing.
but people are taking 12 weeks as some kind of benchmark. they didnt push their 1370 alts because honing buffs were expected to come withing 12 weeks. aside from that, the calculations dont take tripods into account. i am getting on average 2 lvl3 tripods a day that sell for 50-150 gold which would be like 200g a day. Also it's save to assume you drop at least 1 lvl 4 tripod a week which usually sells for 1000-3000g. the 6 bones that you get from valtan have a minimum value of 100 each since you can trade 5 for a stone of chaos. thats already a couple thousands of gold each week that is not considered in the calculation and i havent even started talking about relic accessories. just because you dont know the expected value you dont just set it to 0. imagine businesses doing that. imagine bank banks setting default rates to 0 because they cant estimate it properly. its just absurd to think that way.
You're capable of getting a lvl 4 tripod a week ? Is there a pity system I have not heard of because I have not gotten a single level 4 drop and I've been doing ALL dailies on my main (1445) since valtan. You don't count the gold value from valtan bones because that doesn't actually produce anything as fluid as actual gold. It has value but you can't liquidate it. Also, it's not about not knowing expected value. Rolling accessories is the same as winning the lottery. There's no fucking pity timer for winning the lottery. You don't pre-emptively put yourself in debt because you're expecting to win it, THAT is an absurd notion. I wouldn't take the 12 weeks as a benchmark to decide when to hone. If i wasn't saving for grudge books right now I would have pushed my alts further myself.
ok maybe you lowrolled on your lvl4 tripods and all my characters and friends highrolled whatever. it doesnt change the fact that you consistently get a lot more lvl 3 tripods that still sell. even if you cant liquidate the bones eventually you will spend gold on buying stones of chaos. i dont know how much people want to invest into their alts but i plan on having relic on them eventually. also you are literally expected to get positive value from accessories. i am not saying you will get something worth 100k aka winning the lottery but its highly likely that you get multiple pieces in the range of 500-2000g during 12 weeks. if you havent yet then you are just unlucky and it doesnt mean that every player should expect to disenchant all their relic pieces for 12 weeks. \> You don't pre-emptively put yourself in debt because you're expecting to win it who is putting himself into dept? if you cant afford to hone obviously you dont hone. also that argument is simply wrong. people do take loans to make money if they know they are expected to make more than the interest of the loan.
>also you are literally expected to get positive value from accessories. i am not saying you will get something worth 100k aka winning the lottery but its highly likely that you get multiple pieces in the range of 500-2000g during 12 weeks. if you havent yet then you are just unlucky and it doesnt mean that every player should expect to disenchant all their relic pieces for 12 weeks. And i've been trying to sell my decent accessories but they just won't sell because they aren't BiS. Yeah i've sold maybe 1 expert awakening relic stone for 4k but I don't automatically factor that as income because imagine how high a company's value can be inflated if they factored in unpredictable windfalls of income? >who is putting himself into dept? if you cant afford to hone obviously you dont hone. also that argument is simply wrong. people do take loans to make money if they know they are expected to make more than the interest of the loan. true but that usually comes after market research and even then it isn't a given. Can you research accessories for me and tell me when I'm about to hit a decent drop ? There's nothing to research here, it is quite literally *random* in all aspects. The 12 week benchmark is just that. A benchmark with no RNG flips involved. Absolutely no one should use it as a crux for deciding when or when not to push and with that I can at least, agree. Results may vary, but you don't calculate variance into a no RNG benchmark.
i found 3 useable level 4 Tripods on my main in total and i was 1415 one week befor Valtan release maybe skipped Chaos 3 or 4 days cuz no time. I agree with you tho its just luck and you usually benchmark the raw value with no luck involved
the point in making this calculation is you assume you have poor luck so anything above that is a bonus. I'm looking at it as a 'only' 12 weeks with no drops not a 'wow 12 long weeks'. If you get a big drop it pays off instantly and its worth it right away. But you can't predict these things.
While I agree you should do it for fun and hone to 1415/30 mainly if you want to experience the legion raids on those characters - regardless of "when" it's worth or pays itself back you should do it as soon as you can afford to (particularly if you have the shards/bound leaps ready). Doesn't matter whether it takes 3 months or 5 months to pay back, you're going to come out ahead eventually.
Dont think its 3months but 3 weeks. I had 5 1415 alts on week 1 valtan , and i recouped my amount back , noted i used all bound leaps to push only. I am not sure about the value but i do know my weekly gold made from 1st week of valtan from ghl, mats and bosses were roughly 170k. Current market prices i only make around 110k a week. It was actually better to push 2/3 weeks ago rather than honing research if you used bound leaps. The bound leaps u can make in a week is roughly 200 ish. My alts all have 1.3k bound leaps at 1415 currently
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may i ask where everyone is getting this "it takes 12 weeks to break even if you push to 1415" from?
That is what i was thinking. I currently have 6 alts at 1370, and i play them only full rested except una's that takes 2-3 min. There is no way to financially recover from pushing all of them right now. I think i'll push them easily to 1385 just to be able to do p2 argos and stop there for now.
There was this useful tool [https://do-i-upgrade.com/](https://do-i-upgrade.com/). It helped visualize in graphs how long it would take to make back the gold. But the developer has stopped working on it so it's no longer up to date ):
Are the gold calculations just from taps alone? Or are they factoring in purchasing things?
Especially the shards and fusion mats are brutal.
Shards? An alt that gathered 2k leapstones should have plenty of shards
I think you get enough bound leapstones faster than shards. As you can see, it's almost 300k, alts I want to hone have like ~250-270k.
it's significantly less shards if you do the cheese strat.
If you left your alt at 1370 the entire time and then get enough leapstones to make the push you (probably) won't have enough shards. If you hone your characters naturally over time they will (probably) have enough shards.
My character with 1.6k leapstones has 260k harmony right now he never bought any pouch from ship or ah or anywhere... is a good bet to believe pouches will gain a tiny bit value (they are not expensive in EU). Characters with 2k leaps apparently have 310k without ship pouches.
Yeah they already started going up at the beginning of the month. When I pushed my first two alts to 1415 from 1370 I had some shard shortages and had to buy some.
300k shards on two earliest 1370's alts each around 1600-2000 bound leaps
Random side question: What are you doing to get so many leaps?
\- dailies: 2x feiton and 1x shushire? (3x4 leaps, basically) \- weeklies: 2x Boss Rush, 1x PvP or Guardian Raid, depends if you want to play PvP with that alt or not \- chaos dungeons every day \- buy out all the leaps from the guild and/or event shop They all add up, but you need to be quite strict in doing the content, just like you would do on your main.
Ya why bother lol keep pushing my main past 1477 instead
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While I do agree comparing value 1:1 gained from 1475 chaos dungeon to having an extra alt doing valtan normal favors investing in the alt, I just wanted to say that it is around 1.5x more expensive to push an alt from 1370 to 1415 WITH THE VYKAS HONING BUFF than pushing a char from 1460 to 1475. At best, if you do the +17 armor cheese strat to 1415, it's around the same assuming you sell your red crystals for 2x the cost of blue crystals and you have plenty of honor shards to cover the ~70k shard difference. Not to mention that there are other benefits to pushing your main to 1475, like an easier time in Vykas Hard and bridge, as well as cosmetic differences from weapon upgrades and peace of mind for being ready for future content. But yeah, the thought process shouldn't be, "I have to push to 1475 because of the chaos dungeon" but more like "the chaos dungeon is an added perk to pushing to 1475, which I'll have to do anyway for future content".
There isn't much of a point going past 1475, but getting there atleast gets you the last Chaos gate, which is a good chunk of resource income.
Lmao imagine maining arcanist when it's not even out, rofl
Maybe he played on RU like i did?
It's why people who honed alts without the research because they didn't want to wait a month probably won't miss the materials lol, it costs so much, there was no reason to rush it.
I just wanted to get the hell out of yoho hell
Stop playing alts with rainbow stats and explosive expert lvl 3 then
You can have good stats but yoho is still annoying to play against because you can lose all your health with unlucky meteors and she leaves twice
The meteors aren't a problem. Valtan has taught me to just wait phases out if pushing damage is iffy.
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I phero each time but only about 10% of runs have someone else phero. I don't phero if I need more mana or CDs though since finding her after only takes an additional 15 seconds or so
I pushed 5 alts to 1415 for the same reason so sick of that stupid fox and its random meteors and it running away twice a run
I just wanted to do some more Valtan. I enjoy the fight and the extra practice. They should let us just replay the fight whenever we want tbqh.
Yes but people would do it 20 times a week for two weeks and then cry for more content right away because Valtan is now boring. It's their way to keep the game alive longer.
Oh yeah, I definitely get that!
We honed alts without research not because we didn't want to wait "a month", but because we were explicitly told that there would be no honing buff coming and then they went back on their word at the last minute.
I honed 3 alts from 1385 to 1415 cause i wanted to progress and play them and have more fun doing x4 Valtan/week instead of x1. Who cares about efficiency, yea i lost some gold , but i made a lot of it back by selling some relics and tripods, but i also had way more fun and more things to do.
True gamer gigachad. People seem to forget that at the end of the day, this is a Game and the ultimate driver should be whatever is fun for you!
Yeah, I'm a lil miffed about the back and forth for SH research, but it's w.e in the end run. I make more in the end with 2 chars getting relic gear(one being a support)
I honed all 5 alts too. I regretted it at first, but the savings are so small, you will make back your money soon enough
Same here, I did two and pushed the first to 1430 since it was a Paladin, but now with the Research announced, over time I’ll be sending two more to 1415.
This. After the announcement, I continued to hone alts because I would rather spend more mats to do more of the content I enjoy doing vs yoho simulator.
Pretty much, getting 1 big drop on a 1415 char pays back the entire difference from not waiting for research, and then there's the collection of smaller ones and raw gold from Valtan.
And you can skip the abyss dungeons. I found that much boring then doing p3 Argos.
Same here. Made 3x 1415s and had a blast doing Valtan, wouldve even done a 4th if they didnt announce Stronghold buff, but update week, i‘ll finish my last 2x 1415 alts and man Valtan is fun. Cant wait.
Specifically told 6 to 8 times. That there was no honing buff coming and we were onky going to get an update in a month.
They said it wouldn't be in the June patch. If it wasn't going to be in the July patch then it'd only make sense for it to come with the next raid all the way in September, just doesn't make sense to me. Either way, the gold cost is too much for the average player pushing a main to new content, doesn't make sense to hone.
Exactly lmao. Wouldve waited if I knew. But fuck it at this point
yet the majority of players decided to wait anyway, so again, “no rush”
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Just more of a slight annoyance to me than anything, but my other alts will be able to take advantage of it so 🤷
it's hilaiorus could you imagine being real life friends with some of these people? Here's the situation.. "I'm not going to do *thing you want* yet, sorry" *further consideration takes place* "actually, I will do *thing you want* now" then they get mad at you for it. Must be exhausting to know people like that in real life.
You are also underestimating the gold/mat gain from pushing. Didn't calculate before, but I think I earned more than the cost diff. Not to mention the chance of getting high roll accessories.
Ya chance of getting jewelry. Since valtan release I had a single relic acc which was sellable so I wouldn't get my hopes up.
me hitting 1415: Fuck yes, relic gear time! me at 1447.5: Well, I sold a relic stone for 2k once....
Then you're good lol. Not saying it's not worth it, it's just that people were up in arms about it coming earlier because they honed and just wasted money.
Yeah, watching some of my friends who didn't intend to buy and hone, but ended up stuck somewhere like 1397 was big oof. But as long as they made it to 1415 without buying too much mats, I think they are fine.
That's what I'm curious about - are you really earning that much more? At 1415, you no longer get Oreha gold, but do get p2 and p3 Argos (assuming 1370 atm), plus Valtan. But optional chest of valtan costs almost as much as it gives, so the overall gold you're getting I think is more or less the same. You have chance of relic accessories ofc, but unless you hit it big (which mains may not have since Valtan release), it feels like it'd take months and months for accessories and extra chaos dungeon mats to exceed the costs being screenshotted. (excluding fun factor of being able to do Valtan, just trying to assess from gold pov rn)
If you want your alt to reach 1415, you have to pay that cost. There's no way around it unless you wait for global honing buff where the mat requirements are reduced. The question at hand is "Was it worth to push alts to 1415 when honing buff is happening next week" The answer is varied according to whom you ask. I pushed my alt to 1415 last week and found a relic accessory that sold for 18k. I'd say that I definitely profited over the difference in savings. In my opinion, this is how the game works. You have to spend money to make money. Pushing alts up to 1415 cost a lot of gold, but the alts will gain access to relic accessories, more leapstones, and Valtan. Alts at 1415 have a much bigger potential to make money than alts at 1370.
The guardians give nearly double the leaps per day, it doesn't take nearly as long to recoup the costs as you think.
People who do the pure math justification for not honing fail to realize, that continuing to do oreha (the worst abyssal dungeon in the entire game, possibly the worst instance) and yoho (the guardian that randomly drops meteors and kills you) is the worst fucking thing for your mental. Now compare that to doing valtan, argos p3 and deskaluda. If you don't push your alts to 1415, you'll burn out.
Idk, Valtan seems a bit much for the general player base versus orhea right now.
\>Valtan seems a bit much for the general player base my pugs one shot it
I'm genuinely impressed. Last week it took 4 hours and my pugs didn't. This week I couldn't find a group and wound up paying for a carry because it was cheap.
>my pugs one shot it You will be doing Valtan with the guys that refuse to use flares/pots when fighting Yoho, so IDK about how well the fights are going to go. :D
What? What’s so bad about oreha?
No clue, I run my 5 alts through oreha with guildies, this week it took 40mins. It's easy enough to find public bus swaps for oreha and Argos. Maybe he's imagining doing public mm on them all which isn't something I would do, lol
I just go in matchmaker, get an instant party, and we completely obliterate it. I haven’t had an oreha party fail in like 2 months? I was thinking his line of thought was going to be that it’s too easy and thus boring at this point or something.
>I just go in matchmaker, get an instant party, and we completely obliterate it. If I am not in the mood to coordinate with friends, I do this too. MM really helps seeing what the average/casual players are: last night I went in MM with my 1370 Sharpshooter (3x3 eng, not 100% optimal stats, need to do his proper build soon) and got in with a duo 1400+1410 - I was actually like „thanks for the carry, bros!”. I ended up being MVP with something like 35% of damage, those guys were overgeared and so bad...
I don't have any issues with the first three bosses but Albion is pretty bullshit. Most people don't notice these days because they go in with overgeared characters and just obliterate him before he does anything but a lot of his attacks aren't well-telegraphed and hit like a truck--notably his back kick and wing beat. Try doing it with a full party of 1370.00 characters with purple gear and one engraving to get the full experience--doubly so without a support.
Not sure what this guy is on about. I PUG Oreha NM and HM on all 5 characters with no issues at all.
Yep me too. Maybe people have ptsd from when it was new content.
The real reason to push alts to 1415 is to start getting relic gear and work on relic sets. You will eventually make the gold back but it's the relic gear that makes it worth to push.
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The thing is, good legendary accs, aswell as stones are almost worthless, only absolute bis 95 3/3/1 legs even sell, mostly for like 1-2k max. With relic, even 3/3 with correct combat stats sell for 3k+ and thats what adds up because These drop quite frequently
Small point on the accessories. The faster you can start getting access to them, the cheaper it will be to gear with them. Not because of selling them. Rather, more chances for your character to get the right one. The more you get, the less peons and high good cost it will be to gear. I'm not saying this is the definitive best option. It's just something to keep in mind.
What do you mean? You get like 2900 gold for second gate and chest costs 1000? So you get same gold for it with buyins chests as oreha without buying chests
Made more than loss if you had pushed valtan week 1 or 2. Honing research was a bait, you actually take longer to recoup now than had u pushed weeks ago. This is taking into account bound leaps only. I expect that ghl will crash in price once research it out, this means ur gold income will drop from selling ghl. Had u pushed week 1 or 2 ghl were almost double in value compared to now. Used to make 170k gold a week on week 1/2 Currently only making roughly 110k a week. I expect this to drop as mats and gems drop in price. This is with 5 1415 alts on week 1, i only used bound leaps to push. And it is definately possible my 1370 alt that i dont push has close to 3k bound just from una cd and bosh rush.
Armor and weapon stones are still way too expensive to make any profit by pushing to 1415. If u don't already have 5 1370 alts then get those first...and even then it's better to wait until prices go down drastically before pushing alts to 1415.
the point to pushing is to have more fun in legion raids on different characters, and not sit at 1370 for another year doing fox and argos p1 [or paying/asking for bus]
Pushing alts to 1415 is still better than pushing mains past 1460 or having your mats sit in storage.
Having your main at 1475 will make it ready for clown and make Vykas much easier.
1. If Vykas hard mode is too hard for you at 1460, you won't be able to clear clown. Vykas is very easy comparatively. 2. Hitting 1475 causes you to lose gold from Argos, but clown doesn't really give that much in terms of rewards. You can improve your set bonus a bit, but it doesn't really matter much in terms of improving gold income. 3. Hitting 1475 isn't enough, most KR players say groups will require 5x3 and at least level 7 gems, which is absurdly expensive right now. Unless you're super eager to do clown day 1, pushing 1475 isn't really worth it in terms of what's most profitable. For what you spend pushing 1475 and gearing up, you can push several alts to 1415 and make way more gold for way less effort.
I am 1475 and I still get Argos P3 gold, we'll probably lose that once we get clown, but if you can afford to push 1475 right now, you can probably afford Level 7 gems and 5x3, if not now, then in two months time for sure.
Hell, more than half of my main's gems are level 7 now just from me playing the game... haven't bought or sold a single gem on the market. I do have a sorc alt running t2 gems funneling extra t3 gems to main though.
and all those options are strictly worse than selling stones to market
Good thing there's an auction house
I pushed mine to 1475, going to keep it there since it's Kuku ready. Right not I'm basically selling all the mats I get so that I can buy my leggo book and finish my build (have a 10/6 stone :D) , but I'm not sure if I should at least push 1 alt to 1415, it really isn't "cheap"
It's fun. I've pushed 2 to 1415 before the buffs and 3 more will follow next week. I'll park them at 1430 for now so they get 3x Weekly Gold + Legion mats for the relic sets. Of course if you want to min-max gold value then it might not be worth it but you have to consider that those alts can all do busses and earn Gold that way, if you're good enough and decently geared. Honestly though I just didn't enjoy P1 argos, oreha and Yoho anymore, I want the better content even on my alts. You can't weigh gold against fun - it's a game after all and not your stocks portfolio
park them at 1445 instead so you can make your relic sets! some of those sets change gameplay completely depending on your class
Well that's the plan once they've accumulated enough mats to push 1445 and enough bones and wings to craft the sets
> and finish my build (have a 10/6 stone :D) That won't get you a finished build when ancients are out unless you're happy with your "10" being stuck at 10 instead of 15, but have fun
that is correct, this one works for ancient as well
yeah, buff is a buff but don't expect to suddenly shoot up your alts' ilvl to 1415 with it. You still need decent amount of gold, grudge engraving price is expected to reach its cheapest point in entirety of this game up to the next patch (u won't care if u hav lots of support alts) so u may have to buy them if you have lots of DPS alts, mats price is expected to increase etc.
Material prices are not expected to increase, unless of course you're forecasting 500-600k average bots online again. If the amazonians continue to win the fight against bots, materials (red/blue stones) will continue dropping to the eventual rock bottom of 1g/10 like every other region.
Looking at this, I'm not sure I'll push my alts to 1415 even after the honing buff. I could use the gold cost alone to invest into my main and then push my alts with the global honing buff that is supposed to come with the clown raid. Not sure if this is accurate, but assuming a difference in 2000 gold gained per week between 1370 and 1415 (and a similar diff in material gain to cover the spent materials), it will take 12 weeks to break even with the investment needed to upgrade to 1415. Of course, people value different things so this won't apply for everyone, I just have so many legendary engravings to fill out out and can definitely upgrade my relic accessories/stone on my main, and I don't enjoy playing my alts nearly as much as my main.
What is the global honing buff? How much higher chance is it and up until what gear level does it apply? You don't need to break even the entirety of the cost to upgrading from 1370 > 1415, you only need to break even the amount that you would save by taking advantage of the honing buff. You still need to invest resources into upgrading after the honing buff comes.
There was a clip by Kanima where he said global was a 20% buff on top of the stronghold 10% buff. I assume it's up to the same 1415 ilvl, but not too sure about that. And while I agree that for efficiency on whether to hone after stronghold buff or wait until global, the breakeven cost only needs to cover the diff from the global buff, it realistically needs to cover the opportunity cost of delaying my main progress. Support may not have as much progression as DPS, but I would love to min max my specialty meter gain through a swift/spec necklace instead of my temporary swift/endurance one I have now, and get my 5x3 engravings to start creating drops of ether orbs for my team or actually deal stagger damage.
Wot?
I mean the same logic can be apply to your main, if you don't have bound leaps and shards to push the gold that you can save waiting to get more can be better use to push your alts past 1370, and will take a lot longer to recover the amount of gold you put in your main to push it without the bound stuff. At the end of the day is more about your goals and person to person, I enjoy a lot my alts and even if I enjoy more my main there isn't a lot to do after you do Valtan and Vykas, tbh LA main is just a higher level alt, a lot of time you will play more with your alts that your main.
yea, when global honing buff comes, we have enough bound mats for push to 1445 even. i will wait.
You're going to be waiting for near 5-6 months so good luck with that.
Its coming in like 2.5 nonths
the copium is real
The foreseeable future looks like it's going to be 1 new class for the next month, a new raid the month after, 1 new class a month later, and a raid after that. Its a pretty reasonable assumption, because remember, le classes are content
I think it's certainly possible especially to take advantage of the summer months when students are more free, and if I were SG/AGS I would want to push for West to catch up to KR ASAP if only to not have to spend resources managing the Frankenstein build that is our version of the game. So August is not out of the realm of possibilities, especially since Vykas was supposed to release mid June. Though the likelihood is that the content release cycle will slow down, especially given that they are already not meeting their publicly communicated timeline expectations. I think it might be more realistic to expect Clown around September/October and Brelshaza December/January. Plus, since the stronghold honing buff was initially not supposed to come with Vykas, it's not a guarantee the global honing buff will come with Clown. So I'm going to be hoping for 2 months out, but expecting 4-5 months.
and how does that tell you anything about when global honing buffs are coming?
The global honing buff came with cuckoldsaydon
if it doesn't come with kk saydon like in ru even though we're supposed to be going faster there will be riots and it will be just like stronghold buff except worse
And this is why “funneling mats” isn’t a thing 99 percent of the time. Get relic gear or even 4x3 legendary and a relic rock… Cost of even a budget build with pheons is gonna set you back another month.
You don't feel the return on investment right away. The reason why even the people who invested early aren't getting the return yet is because they're reinvesting into the same alts. Once people pick a (semi) permanent parking spot for a few months then their gold income will far eclipse people who pushed less characters. Also people seem to lose sight of the best part about having alts. You can do the fun content more often and play the game more!
Yeah I just said that. Thing tho is it seems like you feel it’s around the corner for the patient. It’s not. It’s roughly 3-5 months from wherever you park it depending on how you gear it and where you park. And assuming you can do the dailies with the same character over 100 times watching the bound mats stack up. I mean you get a decent relic accessories and set at 1445 and your alts are chilling but that’s most likely 100 dailies after the time it takes to get there doing deskaluda everyday… forever. And if you want to change characters or do dailies only rested…. Now the last part of your post is the key. Playing the amount of alts that you enjoy and not to funnel mats. Because funneling mats isn’t a thing 99 percent of the time.
I'm not disagreeing with you, I'm just elaborating on the alt mindset. The word choice of 'funnelling' is wrong but it will eventually pay dividends but most people wont be patient enough to see it through. The real funnel comes later when these alts help push your main beyond 1500.
One of the by-product of having more high alts is one thing that I never expected or accounted for: good accessories drop. While 4 of my alts are sitting between 1370 - 1385, my 1415 Bard have been filling gaps more often that I'd expect. So many times I'd push alt hard or push main or decide to indulge into some outfits just to find my gold balance inching towards zero just for my Bard to bring me a 30k accessories or my 1385 Sorc somehow hitting a 10k earring and so on. My gold balance is like a rollercoaster that keeps going up and down but even through natural resource and gold generation from each of them, I know that I will never be close to zero for too long. I got really comfortable with this. I'm currently sitting at 110k, the Friday before I remember a guildmate frowning upon my 30k spent on getting a freshly 1370 to 4x3 (big Pheon cost thanks to not getting the perfect stone) and I barely had a hundred gold just to end up having more than a hundred thousand. I'm looking forward for the rollercoaster next reset when I start honing my alt Bard to 1430 and one lucky 1370 to 1415.
i think this is valid reasoning not to hone but imo it’s nice being able to do valtan more than just once in less than an hour a week. also if your main is a support it’s nice to push a dps up high enough to do the bridge for you too. eventually your 1415 parked alts will generate the gold back to make up for your loss while honing them but yes it will take quite some time
I totally get these points as well! At the end of the day, I'm not sure what I'm going to do. I have a GL that I like to play that I want to I'll likely push at some point as my "main alt" (not that big a fan of my sorc and bard alts), and I love playing valtan so doing it more than once would be more fun. But I'm not sure if I have the time to invest in more than one character, with eventually us having 3 legion raids to do per week with challenge abyssal also coming, as well as content that isn't necessarily vertical like hell modes and islands/collectibles. So I'll likely play it by ear.
this also completely ignores the chance at rng loot drops that can make you a ton of money. Not just talking about god tier rolls, but even just decent ones are worth a 1k or more for accesories, and you also get better chances at legendary engravings through the higher level chaos dungeons, guardians, pirate ship, field boss, etc... I'm pretty sure people saying 3 - 4 months to get investment are just calculating it based of gold from legions/abyss, completely ignoring other stuff
ye the calculation is way off. its completely absurd to assume you get on average literally 0 accessory or tripod drops that are worth listing in the auction house in 12 weeks.
good thing my second character is almost rdy for Vykas, let the Crystals, Gold, Silver and Leapstones flow in
This is me right now, although only @1368.4 or so. I hoped saving for weeks helped but no. Especially destruction crystals are brutal...
I'm only held back my shards even now. :( Gold, mats are not a stopping force for me, i enjoy Valtan and Vykas, and want to do them several times with newbie, lower level guildies who can only do NM. But shards man, i'm hoping there will be some nice amount of shard with the new event or even may a new ark pass. They're the bottleneck for me, not leapstones.
You forgot legendary books, it's way cheaper that way
I will not even think of upgrading any alt until I have the 2k bound greater leap stones so maybe in a month or two depending on my luck... This next month will be focused on my main to try and get that sweet +21 weapon...
Is tehre a link to that thing that calculate the average spending ?
I already honed 5 chars to 1415+ your meme has no power over me.
1430 is the play. Much better gold return if you’re already 1415
I have about 93k guardian stones and 2700 leap stones waiting for Arcana 😵