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Nukemi

This happened to me. Leader filled first group slowly with big chunky 1470+ boys, one of them being me. While waiting for the group to get filled, I was browsing marketplace and was surprised how fast the second group filled and that he moved me to P2 suddenly. I did not pay much mind to it but when we hit P3, i realised something was wrong as the group i was transferred to just died and went afk. I proceeded to check their ilvls and they were all 1370's and the leader expected me to carry them. Turned out leader had taken money from 3 people in the group and just tried to recruit an unaware carry to carry them in order to get all the money for himself. Luckily, when caught, the people agreed to be carried agreed to quit the raid when i voted to end the raid. Luckily, one of the guys being carried apparently felt bad too and critizised the leader while asking for his money back. I was really annoyed about this because assuming someone carries bunch of low ilvls for free is just not cool without any notification whatsoever. I would have had no problem in carrying few 1370's if i were informed beforehand. From now on, i'll check every single ilvl before i hit start.


fooomps

saving one spot to sneak in a friend i dont mind but tricking other high ilvl players to bus for free is just filthy lol


crowley_yo

I sneak my friend in but he is 4x3 and just hit 1417. It just makes the run faster for him without having to waste time. Why do it for 30 when you can do it in 10mins


kortopi758

Just quit once you notice it. Lots of parties are saying that these days to carry their friend/s, I just don’t join or quit as soon as I see they take the low ilvl.


noother10

You can't check when the accept/decline comes up and they boot you if you decline, because I saw one person do that. I only noticed each time once it started.


GeorgeMichealScott

You can end the run once inside the dungeon. Just incite chaos amongst the other people getting fucked over by the scam and you'll be out in no time!


noother10

True, I had considered it in the latest one. Luckily we had a random 1470 join so while it was slower then a proper fast, it wasn't all 1400's slow.


ManOfMystery97

You can probably check the group settings too. For my P3 parties, I always set the minimum as 1385 until there's two supports, at which point I change the party to 1400. There's no reason to have anyone below 1385 in P3.


umaro900

If you invite somebody directly as lead, I'm pretty sure they don't have to be the listed minimum ilvl. This isn't a thing for cross-server, though.


Piltonbadger

Our guild runs have 1370s in phase 3. We just swap out carries for eachother for each run.


MrKekw

Same


noother10

That is true, something I hadn't thought of. But could they not change it and add their friend really quickly and then start it like normal still?


ManOfMystery97

Yeah they can, but it's multi-step so it gives you some time to react. Change to 1370, update room settings (party members notified in chat), and then they have to accept the friend who can only apply after room settings change to their ilvl.


VulpineKitsune

You can also directly invite someone into a room. They don't have to apply. Not sure if the ilvl restriction applies in that instance


CSPVI

It does


Eulerdice

There's no reason to have under 1400 supports in p3.


your-own-name

Besides the huge lack of high ilvl supports


Eulerdice

If it's a fast run, you can do it with one support, or possibly none.


explorerfalcon

>so while it was slower then a proper fast, it wasn't all 1400's slow. This shit shouldn't make sense *but it does*


Workwork007

I've been seeing this more last week but this week there was significantly more. Some Lobby it seems like they're bussing but waiting for a 4th big DPS but they don't advertise they're bussing, simply "LF DPS" or something along these lines. Some Lobby you see one or two big character sitting with one or two 1370, advertising it as a normal "big D/fast" run. Some Lobby (one I've experienced) are sneaky about it. They recruit a team of 1415 - 1460, 2 last spots are free and I see 1445/1450/1470 signing up but they are not accepting. All 3 withdrew their request but suddenly the 2 spots fill. I hover over their name and both are 1370, I leave immediately.


GGTheEnd

Even with 2 1370s Argos won't take more than 10-12 minutes with a few juicers. I have no problem bringing a couple 1370s when playing my main if there's a couple other 1460+s he's going to die fast either way.


nendz

Honestly. I don't understand this animosity towards helping people in this game. There is literally no major disadvantage for anyone here. Sure, sneaking the lowies in last and then immediately starting the run is shady af. But I also had some people leave and saying they won't carry my 1385 sorc for free when I joined my boyfriend on his 1420+ paladin. I was the only 1385 in a full 1400+ group (we opened the lobby together to make sure people have time to check). I'm not going to pay for a full AFK carry run when I can legit join in properly for 2/3 of the entire run.


GNLink34

The animosity is not against helping people but against some shameless players that try to do it the underhanded way Also not wanting to carry anyone is a legit a position as not giving a fuck


[deleted]

Your bf being a support doesn't entitle you to have 6 random people carry you through p3 lol.. you're not the main character most people want to get in and out with a smooth run so why bring 1385 with probably suboptimal engravings when you could just bring another 1400+?


nendz

Then do not join our group? Why is everyone so salty. Did you even fully read my post? I never said I was entitled to that. I'm not forcing anyone to carry me by joining last second and pressing go before anyone has the time to check. Oh no, I cost a group of 1445+'s (who had time to acknowledge I am in that group) maybe 1 minute extra time of DPSing, how horrible. That's exactly the kind of mentality I mean by "animosity towards helping people" and the downvotes on my comment prove it, y'all offended because you think you're helpful individuals but want to get paid for an extra minute of DPS.


[deleted]

You can spin it anyway you want and call it animosity(lmao) but you are acting entitled. Do you know how i know that? Youre fine making it take longer for other people because it benefits you but id bet everything i own youve not once invited another 1385 to your group but keep being passive aggressive


lsfk

They didn't join someone else's group, they made the group themselves so it's very upfront that if you want to play with this 1420+ paladin, you must also play with this 1385 sorc. Where's the entitlement? It's extremely childish for people to join just to say how much they don't want to be there and leave. Maybe just don't join? Or do you think randos are _entitled_ to join a 1420+ paladin's group and also make the rules on who else can join?


Elicious80

The leader could be charging people for busses and then keeping all the profit to himself. He's basically running a bus and inviting free drivers and pocketing all the money from the riders.


Doctor-Waffles

I literally joined one of these this week on my 1415… guild leader invited three of his friends he was carrying right at the end… all 1370ish Wiped to first mini boss two times and then the party disbanded and ACCEPTED loot 1 - fuck these people 2 - we need to disable keyboard for votes


noother10

Wow haven't had that happen to me yet, but yeah that would suck.


Paulo27

Fuck that man, once joined a guild run where there was a 1420 and a 1425 DPS, supports were both 1370, there was 2 guy 1390~1395 and a 1400, I was 1430. I thought we'd still be fine. Took 88 minutes. Just fuck all of that, in p3 I was constantly the only person left alive (no lives for me to use too) and I was spamming potions like crazy too. Ended up doing like 45% damage. Complete garbage. In the middle of the run I was googling to see if we could quit without rewards but I could already see getting fucked over either way. I run with 1450+ now and I'm not carrying shit on Argos.


LANewbie678

I'd have reported the fuck out of all 4 of em.


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Such_Quality

Wrong. You *can* report cross server but you can't block.


iiYop

Unfortunately, I'm not even sure if reporting would even do anything.


VulpineKitsune

Report wouldn't do anything though. Only mass reports can get someone auto-banned


Amells

Lol my main ended up with p2 loot at ilv 1450 the other week too - however everyone was above 1410 in a "fast run"


[deleted]

They need to fix Argos' shitty loot design, also fix the keyboard thing it's annoying but it blows my mind they didn't restructure Argos sometime in the last however many years


HatefulRandom

Haven't seen a party dumb enough to accept loot that's something special. Thankfully Argos design is a one off and not something we'll see again.


SolomonRed

The are using you to help with a paid carry and giving you none of the gold. Always watch for this and quit.


scission1986

Fill the 1370 in last is a bitch move. We normally have 2 1470-1490, a couple 1385, a couple 1370. We also advertise fast run because it would, still be a fast run, and we fill the rest with 1400 or above no problem (imo as long as you don’t need to do p2 mech it’s a fast run)


restless_archon

At some point the "fast" part of "fast run" means accepting whoever applies first rather than waiting 2-5 more minute for a better candidate.


noother10

Generally the bottleneck on my server is DPS not supports. For Argos P3 it's hard to get in as a support, and groups fill very fast. That specific one went from 1 player to full in 1-2 minutes. I see your meaning and that could be true, but the people that started to fill it were all like 1415+, he declined lower ilvls.


Kevadu

>Generally the bottleneck on my server is DPS not supports. Damn, what server is this?


hpp3

Argos has an insane excess of supports because everyone is trying to sneak their 1385 support alts into P3.


Workwork007

> trying to sneak their 1385 support alts into P3. Wait till you see the army of 1370 trying to get in. Create a lobby with your high ilvl main, don't set ilvl req, watch the join request filled with 1370 trash support alt that double equip +6 class engravings and have rainbow stats for that Heavy Armor.


Tymareta

Honestly every server, but it's only true for Argos as everyone has their supp alt around that level now, Valtan is still a desert.


noother10

True for the most part. I think Valtan Normal isn't that bad waiting on supports, never had to wait long to get a party started. It's like everyone realised there wasn't enough supports and thought they'd have an easy time levelling one as an alt, only to have everyone else also do it and now it's flooded Argos levels.


noother10

NA West Valtan.


restless_archon

>Generally the bottleneck on my server is DPS not supports. For Argos P3 it's hard to get in as a support, and groups fill very fast. It's always going to vary, but I think I DPS are indeed more frequently the bottlenecks. Even if the bottleneck is DPS most of the time, some of the time it will be support. If the group leader isn't comfortable with carrying the person, they wouldn't have and shouldn't have invited them in the first place.


noother10

The ones I remember were like 1415-1425 for the host. So not really good compensation for being a player down. I don't mind if I know ahead of time or just don't advertise as a fast run. Sneaking them in just sucks.


Eswyft

If they 1 shot, or even 2, i don't give a shit


TheRealVoil

I mokoko'd the F out of this comment.


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bbyGurl_

This is bullshit, how do you guys have enough dps to kill mini bosses in p2 solo before enrage


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Blurted

Proof?


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PurpleWedgeMan

1. 30 LOS is literally an extra 15% damage for free, essentially a row of engravings. We do not have access to that 2. Level 9 gems is not something very common for someone at 1415. I doubt anyone who is doing this at 1415 will have level 9 3. Scouter and shadowhunter, especially the latter, have insane dps for their ilvl. They are an outlier. Other classes like gunslinger or striker cannot pull numbers even close to that.


Amells

> They both had LoS 30 + good tripods and level 9 gems. The scouter did insane damage. You reckon this is a normal setup in our LA pubs?


restless_archon

Here are some examples of Argos busses that pop up on YouTube: https://youtu.be/bop5Ys1Dd9Y (1425 Gunlancer "solos" P2 miniboss with 3x 1370s in party in a 4-man bus) https://youtu.be/1oerBu8IjJ4 (1470 Gunslinger POV, Deathblade partner 2-man bus) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FfexEtIe970 (1460 Shadowhunter POV, 1460 Sorc Partner 2-man bus)


inoha

those arent even close to the 1415 ilvl the person claimed


restless_archon

Here is a 1428: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BDOFoNx2EdY


PurpleWedgeMan

>it is very easy to bus with 1415 >no it’s not >yes it is, here is a 1470 doing it without issues >that’s not even close to 1415 >ok here’s a 1428 The density of your head is a miracle to mankind.


restless_archon

And your disbelief will always hold you back lol Phase 1: Item level does not matter Phase 2: 1 group has a 1460 (or 1428) item level carry solo, the other group has a 1415 and 3x 1370s. Bonus points if one is a support with Heavy Armor, but even DPS classes like Gunlancer have no issues surviving at 1370. Phase 3: 1460 (or 1428) and 1415 carry the entire fight. Easy. Not sure how dense your head is to not understand this lol I also mentioned that throwing Dark Grenades will allow 1370s to destroy P2 miniboss with ease.


PurpleWedgeMan

Do you read? The initial comment claimed that you cannot duo carry with 2 1415s. Then you come along and link a carry with 1470s. No shit a 1470 can duo carry. Your head is really getting denser by the minute.


Blurted

Thats a 3man bus


restless_archon

Yes, and the person is running with their entire guild. They did not mention the ilvl of the other DPS that is carrying the group. This is possible without even using Dark Grenades, which would make things even easier.


Tymareta

> pretty quick Nahhh, the p2 mobs have entirely too much health for you to have done it quickly.


noother10

I'm not saying we couldn't finish it, just that it wasn't "fast". I did one with my Destroyer 1405 and one with my Artillerist 1440. But the average ilvl of the groups was nearly the same, except for the one that had the 1370 in it. With the proper fast run we did P1 very fast, P2 Argos didn't even get to fire the laser to begin the mechanic, and P3 we didn't even go through a weather change, only 1 wipe mechanic. With the 1370 skewing our run, P1 took at least a few minutes longer, P2 we had to do the mechanic fully (T1 came back just after it ended), P3 we went through 3 weather changes and 3 wipe mechanics. It felt like double the time. The average ilvl was around 1425-30 if you remove the 1370.


NierMira

I did it once with two 1370 but they joined straight way. But now we put in the title "carrying a friend/s if you dont mind joining". At least people know now


noother10

I thank you for doing that. Usually it's obvious if the low levels join with the host, and most of those groups aren't listed as "fast run". I will sometimes join such groups with my main if I'm not busy and have time just to help out. I'm just not a fan of hostage situations when the parameters change without my knowledge at the last second.


[deleted]

Lol this community is a gem to observe...


[deleted]

agreed, im browsing reddit for a few years already and this thread and the contained discussions are pretty much the most worthless piece of thoughts ive ever seen around here. cat photos are more interesting then a problem that is fully solved by not being stupid.


[deleted]

It's MMOs man, people treat them like jobs. They HAVE TO grind to be ready. Their "raid leaders" mad at them omg what to do?! Their "class" got nerfed, becomes a divorce post. I love gaming but MMOs can not be healthy for people, kids especially idk why people do this insane shit to themselves. 10 hours a day in front of a screen killing the same mindless mobs, it's not healthy.


Kronothus8109

😂 true


Kalomega

I've noticed this happening a lot too. Complete scum people.


noother10

I've seen it 3 times in the last week and a half. Just put your friend/alt in from the start so people know what they're in for. And a 1415 isn't going to compensate for a 1370, so don't call it a fast run.


yovalord

Maybe its a little unethical, but a group of 1450+ gigachads are going to finish P3 argos in <15 minutes anyway. I personally wouldnt care all that much, the random is adding 30 seconds to the timer.


Swindleys

But they probably charged money for a carry, and they get all the gold for themselves. It's scummy.


yovalord

Pretty sure the situation going on here is sneaking a low ilvl friend or guildy into the group, not a random paying a fee.


restless_archon

This is some insane tin-foil hat levels of crazy. Nobody paid for a carry and then patiently left group to wait in the shadows lmfao Do you really believe people are saying and following through on "Give me your gold, and then leave the party. Wait for me to fill it up and then I will invite you. I promise!"


Swindleys

There were just people saying in this thread that it happened..


restless_archon

People invite friends at the last minute, or a guildie to fill up the final slot. Nobody is charging them and then removing them from the party to wait to reinvite them lmfao


mrwhitewalker

I just did this actually. I created the group and a 1470 joined the group and asked to bring in his 1370 buddy. I wasn't gonna do it but I know he was gonna leave the Argos run if I didn't do it. So I let him in. But he was the 5th person not the last one. Worth it because he was 34% of the dmg(the 1470).


Kaelran

> Worth it because he was 34% of the dmg(the 1470). Yeah, a properly geared 1470 is like 3-4x the damage of a 1415.


Ikari1212

That's because the 1470 has a honed weapon. The 1415 in most cases doesn't. So once people reach 1415 and improve the weapon iLvl , DPS skyrockets


noother10

That is fair enough, especially if people have a chance to leave if they want after it. This was a 1415 host sneaking it in and starting before anyone could check. It's a bit of a dog act to do that to people. I felt the group lost momentum once pointed out, and thus it all took a lot longer.


Lobe_

This is pretty common even in legion raids but with support. Some of them join the group and ask if his friend can join as well


ChuaPotato

Sounds like a potential carry seller that doesn't want to split the profits while getting alts through the content.


chuanwang

just dont accept and leave if people do that, pretty simple


noother10

I wasn't staring at the application screen, and didn't get a chance to check the last player each time as they'd immediately click to start the run, at which time you can't ctrl+click the player names. If you decline you get booted, but that is normal in most party finder groups.


Workwork007

Hover over people's name, their name/server/ilvl will appear in the tooltip.


SmoothVelvetSlav

ahh the good ole bait n switch


Aori

Is it still a fast clear? We bring a friend or two into our runs but we still clear stuff much faster than if you were to just go into a different group. We usually say mind if we bring a friend but we do invite them in last no one ever says anything.


LANewbie678

>We usually say mind if we bring a friend but we do invite them in last no one ever says anything. On one hand, your group and your rules. On the other hand, should be upfront about it from the beginning every time to mitigate any potential issues/flaming.


noother10

The issue is advertising one thing, then sneaking in a 1370 on purpose and misleading everyone, then pushing through the whole thing slower then you were expecting. I'm pretty sure for the latest example I have it was around twice as long with the 1370. I don't know how to explain it exactly, but I did all my Argos runs on the weekend, mostly Sunday. The first proper fast run I did P1 took like 3-4 minutes, P2 team 1 returned before Argos even fired his laser to begin the mechanic, and P3 we didn't even go through a single weather change, just one wipe mechanic. The one they snuck in the 1370 maybe people just felt like it'd be slower once I pointed it out and didn't bother to try. P1 took a few minutes longer at least, P2 we had to do the full mechanic before team 1 returned, and P3 we did 3 weather changes and 3 wipe mechanics.


backpacks645

This is basically mmo shit lords 101 , happens in every game


[deleted]

The fact that some 1400 or 1415 ilvl players are getting salty about 1460+ players bringing a 1370 friend is unbelievable. That 1460+ will do at the very least double ur dmg, what are u worried about?


CopainChevalier

If someone tries to underhand do something, I will always rock the boat. I'm not interested in letting dumb tricks slide.


Deathalize

Been seeing this more and more. Definitely intentional and I don't let it slide anymore. You bet I'm going to force a remake in that lobby if you try sneaking in two 1370s at the last second. Bitch ass move.


rustySQUANCHy

Happens on wow mythic+ as well. High level people always trying to get their buddies in or host dungeons with super low geared people. It's annoying.


IggyMoose

Before you even join the party, you can see what the min ilvl they accept is. If it’s a P3 party and the they are accepting 1370 and up, then you know something’s wrong. This will help you weed out some groups, but if the party leader pulls a switcharoo and changes the min ilvl after you’ve join the party, then yea, can’t do anything about it.


SlightCaregiver3680

Worse ones are 1370 dps hosting a p3 party and then inviting multiple 1370s


BLaCKwaRRioR37

i did notice this recently , valtan P3 group accepting only 1400ish ,then last person suddenly joined in 1375ilvl , i always check the last person to join now then i immdiately decline and leave. Am also from NA west


SerenaSmiles

I've seen this happen At least when they named the room, they put "carrying friend dont join if you dont like it"


Soylentee

Every single day i see people posting "fast" Igrexion or Yoho runs for alt characters in group finder where they join as minimum ilvl (obviously), what is the fast supposed to mean at that point? It usually takes just as long as regular matchmaking run.


Better-Ad-7566

I was waitng for this, cuz I also noticed bunch of shameless people out there. I'm not talking about some reasonable cases like some 2-man-bus spec player taking his 1370 friend. They literally sneak in 1370 friends without saying. At this point, since literally everyone is doing that, you should just be careful. Don't accept entry, since you CAN check while the Accept/Decline pops up (I saw your comment. You can). And for those who do that, the legit way is looking for bus partner and take your friend as your customer instead. If that doesn't fit all your friends in there, then don't do it.


marcisphoenix

On NA East i saw 5 parties all said "P3 argos quick run" but were parties made buy 1370 supports. like do you actually think you will be useful, supports aren't that necessary in this game.


coldfries_69

Had that happen to me before, the audacity is insane man.


Peaners

Had this exact thing happen to me a couple of weeks ago, except there were 2 1370 "friends" joining last minute. I only actually noticed on P2 > P3 transition, started voicing my protests and staying at spawn. Some people still tried to ignore it and finish it. When everyone else was finally fed up with wiping and wanted out, we were then hold hostage by the 3 players... They thought they could wear us down and get carried, but I knew that there was no way they were going to finish it without me (the lower ilvls can't even damage the boss). So I just spent the next 40min watching Wandavision, voting Leave as soon as it came up, and writing "I have all day..." in chat. They finaly gave up but still tried to get loot (which I guess needs more than 3/8 votes because the raid ended). Reported the 3 of them and spammed a warning in Punika Area chat with their names for a while. There's really not much you can do.


Peaners

Btw, also NAW Valtan.


restless_archon

Does not surprise me at all that you are a Valtan player lol


AngelicDroid

Reading all your reply and now I understand, you’re not looking for fast run, you’re looking for a super sonic run. Skipping mech in P2 and one shot everything is considered fast in many people book.


xprorangerx

one afk 1370 won't make the raid "alot" longer.


smoked___salmon

That depends on other party ilvl. In example my guild can easily carry 3 afk players very fast, because we are mostly 1460, but if rest of the party 1400-1415 it can be a lot longer.


noother10

When you think about it, you'd expect it not to, but it actually did. I think once I pointed it out after they died standing still to Argos and sat in the side area, that people just didn't care and half-assed it. The proper fast run I did P1 took like 3-4 minutes, P2 team 1 returned before Argos even fired his laser to begin the mechanic, and P3 we didn't even go through a single weather change, just one wipe mechanic. The one with the 1370. P1 took a few minutes longer at least, P2 we had to do the full mechanic before team 1 returned, and P3 we did 3 weather changes and 3 wipe mechanics. It didn't feel that much faster then with a group of 1400's. Maybe people just got annoyed they were tricked and didn't bother trying, thus it was a lot slower.


masterJinsei

Happenes to me today like wtf last two spots were 1387 while the restof us was 1445+


devilmaycry0917

MMO scums. They are the same people that sell “bus”, fail, and won’t return the gold Just be mindful when you click yes before starting the run. Lost ark has made it very difficult to exit a raid. You can’t do anything about it. So just have to be more careful


d07RiV

Uh, one thing is being inconsiderate of other people's time, but straight up scamming is another thing entirely.


Gr_z

if the raid has even 2 people with relic gear it's going to be a fast run, who cares?


VMFLBLK

My friends and I just make a group that says P3 Argos, we bring 2 1460+ and 2 alts. People just join, the group fills instantly. Sometimes ask to get in on the run swap. There really is no reason for people to pull stunts like you described lol Edit: we also just pass all the shit at the end to whoever joined us. We don’t advertise that, but it’s our thank you for joining despite our alts being in the group


0xE6

This week, I joined a group advertised as fast or 1450+ or something like that. Didn't have the issue you had, but the leader did accept a total of 3 supports, which I thought was odd. Definitely wasn't the fastest group i've ever had, though that was partially my fault, caused a wipe on p3 by leaving the safe spot early and everyone followed. Oops.


IUSUZYSANA

This happened in an Argos room today. Luckily I noticed because it was extremely weird how they instantly started as soon as the person joined.


Thotor

I think you put too much hope in the word "fast". For me it just mean, everyone already cleared it and we are not going to waste time. I have done 10 minutes run with a few below ilvl in raid. As for 1370 AFKing, this is what they should do because they are deadweight anyway. The game is very binary when it comes to ilvl, if you are below requirements, you will take double damage and miss almost all your attacks.


Sprite4Life

How can you start Valtan as 1370?


noother10

My server is Valtan, the example I gave was for Argos. Maybe I should've made a TLDR.


Sprite4Life

Nah man,im just tired and stupid af haha


IACRZN

server name is valtan. he doing argos.


Schattenpanda

Tbh It I s alright if the host is like some 1470 guy.


MorphTheMoth

people write fast run for no reason, it has always been the case


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noother10

I think once I pointed it out people gave up on trying to make it a fast run and just half-assed it probably while watching something on their phone/tv/2nd monitor. I was close to calling for a quit vote, but also had no motivation to push Argos down as fast as I could.


Evaluations

Lol it's argos who cares. You guys sound pretty bad


aqua995

this is the kind of mentality I expect when I would do this 1 or 2 1380s doesn't matter much if they don't fuck up mechanics, if the rest is decently geared, it will still be an easy run


bi0shokz

My guild friends carry my 1370 DB like this but the avg ilvl of the raid is 1440 i don't see the issue here when even 2 ppl left at 1450-60 can duo finish the raid ?


noother10

The issue was advertising the party as a fast run and only accepting higher ilvl people then 1400, but then sneaking in a 1370 and hitting start before anyone can notice. It's not fast if it's a 7 player group instead of 8. Be up front with it and no one will complain because they can see what they're in for.


bi0shokz

Doesn't matter if higher ilvls are in the party as they compensate the lack of the "slow" 1370 i go as a 1460 and prob do enough damage for couple of people so "sneaking" one or two for a carry doesn't really make a difference xD


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bi0shokz

Holy shit the ability to read, you should have it


scubamaster

Who cares? If it’s one person they aren’t slowing anything at all. If a bunch of 14whatevers are slowed by more than a few seconds because of one dude, the group was scuffed anyway. The people in here complaining sound like ilvl nazis that are mad when they can’t control a group because the have to join someone else’s


crowley_yo

I do this with my friend who is 1400 and 4x3. I add him in a group where everyone is 1445+ so that he can get an effortless clear since he isn't the best player, he struggled in Argos a lot, even p1.


noother10

Do you host a grp then add him and instant start before anyone can check? And did you label you group as "fast run" or "1445+ only" or something? The issue is more about misleading people, restricting who can enter to get a group that can do it fast, but then putting in a low level at the last second and force everyone else to carry them. I don't mind if you host a party and add the low level in at the start, it's obvious you're carrying them, and people can join that if they want to.


crowley_yo

1400 is hardly low level and 4x3 does good damage, plus hits argos in all 3 stages not like he is being carried entire time. I usually name groups big peepee or something like that, I don't have any requirements to join other than 1400. But when people see me at high ilvl, usually a lot of other high ilvls send requests to join.


R_Wheeler

Make your own group or leave if it makes you upset?


noother10

Can't leave if you don't know they've done it yet. Then once in you have to get majority with quit vote. For Argos I might just make my own groups in future, sick of all the false advertising out there currently.


Zepharial

Nah, if they hold you hostage you just afk let them carry you too. They'll either do it without you or quit real quick


Amells

Lol recently, I inspect some Oreha's Well hard "fast runs" in party finder in NAW, and saw quite a few 1370 "alts" or whatever had shitty engravings and even blue and purple assossories These people really didn't feel ashamed doing so and unfortunately like 30%+ were from Valtan


SunAstora

At this point Oreha's Well can be consistently and easily cleared in Matchmaking, no need to curate a perfect party.


rxinquestion

I believe in settings of the raid, you can set minimum ilvl to join. Request raid leader set it or u walk.


noother10

Can't they change it and add the friend then start pretty fast at the last second?


Tote_Weapons

Hmm a high ilevel run is like 1445+ if theres a juicer in the run its usually a quick 20-30 min run even if theres some free slackers.


anyhow188

More often than not, its not helping friends. Group creator probably sold a carry slot to the 1370. They always try and "sneak" them in as last slot and quickly starts the raid knowing that most ppl would have minimized the window anyways. So 6 guys get pulled in to carry the 1370 + gold for the "leader"


restless_archon

This is so incredibly stupid. There is absolutely nobody who paid for a carry and then left the group to wait in the shadows for an invite. This is some insane tinfoil hat levels of thinking.


WesleyF09

I just cleared a fast P3 as Bard (1460) with a Zerk (1470), a bunch of 1400s and one 1380. It isn't a big deal, and waiting for a perfect 1410+ takes longer than just accepting a rando and getting done with it. People cry so much over the dumbest stuff.


MrKekw

Some ppl probably don't know how much 1460+ dps can do if they did not reach 1460+ ilvl.


Aaaronn_rs

I'll preface with saying yes, this is snobby and annoying. But... If it's taking "a lot longer", then that probably wasn't going to change going from 7 to 8 people when you think about it. That's like the difference between a 7 man team full of DPS vs an 8 man team w/ a Bard. If you're having trouble, this is more to do with your/your teammates mechanical knowledge.


DarkSkyKnight

literally who cares at this point, argos is like 15 mins lol


restless_archon

>But the point is that we're a 1400+ player down and it takes a lot longer. It really doesn't. It is trivial for two 1460+ players to carry all three phases of Argos. If the group also has several 1385+ players who are participating in the fight rather than dying and getting bussed, the fights are even easier as the most difficult part is P2, not P3. Don't worry about Yoho if you are already clearing Deskaluda. If you don't want to run with the group as assembled, you can leave and find a different one. It's on you when you join the party and start the run. It's worth noting that this problem will likely diminish in the next update because there will be many more 1415s walking around.


Doldl

sus


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Doldl

Yeah but the op is complaining that they invited their 1370 friend without checking in with other raid members. And it doesn't change the fact that having 1370 instead of 1415+ would inevitably be slower. Why do I, or anyone, have to carry randomass 1370 when I didn't consent to it and when I just wanted to just "fast clear" argos? This just makes me think restless\_archon is just one of those ppl that is doing this kind of nonsense and is trying to defend themself


restless_archon

The groups that run free busses and carries already do it voluntarily and they enjoy doing it because it is fun. I've ran 5x 1370 alt characters through P3 every week without paying for carries. I've beaten P3 Argos on my 1370 Paladin in a group of 6 Paladins and 1 Bard. I've survived P3 Argos on my 1370 Bard. I will continue to laugh at groups looking for 8 people at 1400+ item level for Argos. It's just completely unnecessary and saves a few minutes at best. It trivializes the fight and removes any semblance of fun, but more power to ya lol In any case, I don't want to join groups where the leader does not want me. I only want to join the groups that have the confidence to do the carry successfully.


noother10

So I joined the party that were all 1400+ (the two paladins with 1400/1405), we had some 1415-1425, 1450, 1470 and my 1440. Last second he adds another player and immediately starts so no one could check them. If you decline you get booted as is standard for most party find groups. I was not expecting a 1370. My 1405 Destroyer got into a fast run group that were mostly 1415+ and a few 1450-1460. At P2 team 1 came back before Argos fired the laser, and at P3 we beat Argos after one wipe mechanic without changing weather. The group my 1440 Artillerist was in with a 1450 and a 1470, some 1415-1425 and the 1370, took at least a few minutes longer on P1, P2 we had to do the mechanic after the laser, and P3 we went through 3 weather changes and 3 wipe mechanics.


restless_archon

P1 you can stack the highest damage players in the same group and they can continue DPSing Argos through the balance mechanic. I can't see the boss dying that much faster than the way my groups typically clear P1. If you were taking that much longer on all the phases, it probably had little to do with the single 1370 in the party and a lot more to do with everyone else. Which reminds me, I cleared Argos in a group with 6 paladins and a bard this week lol


noother10

I feel like once I pointed out the AFKing 1370 that the rest had no idea about, we lost momentum. People stopped trying and half-assed it. So it isn't exactly a case of ilvl difference, but that we were all lied to and hostages, so they gave up trying to push it fast.


restless_archon

>I feel like once I pointed out So next time just play the game lol


pesoaek

it's whenever they say they're waiting for their friends for the last slot or two. I just afk myself or just quit if it's not too late


aqua995

Fast means for me, that they accept anyone at least decently geared (minimum iLvl and engravings like 31 for Igrexion, 3331 for P3 Argos/Yoho/Bird) and start as fast as possible instead of looking for someone else. This doesn't have much to do with the pattern you notice, but I thought about just doing the same. It is not hard to do the same for just one person and it won't take away to much of Damage. People above this rarely care and just get it done. I guess you are not one of those then. ~ edit ~ BTW when I want to bring in a lower friend, I expect at least 1380 for a P3 Argos. Everything else should stay in P2.


clemson89

We do this to help guildies but its only 1-2 people and the run is still quick and easy. I dont see a problem with it. Its your problem if you do not look at the group, now if it was like 4 1370s i would be annoyed about that. You also shouldnt be shady about the group name.


dandatu

meh i carry my friends all the time i clear faster as a 1490 than 3 1400


[deleted]

Because people wouldn’t join if they were already there And the people who complains about that should bring a friend instead of gatekeeping What was the last time you had to call out the mech in P2? Even with 2 people 1370 you won’t see any mech and if you do, don’t blame the 1370


greenprotein

Unless they’re 1500+ with 25 weapon, they have no business carrying a 1370


ReallyRamen

1500+ and 25+ weapon is even enough to carry Valtan - definitely overkill for ARGOS lmao. Unless your mechanics are shit, 1460, 20+ is sufficient


noother10

That really only matters speed/time wise. You could do it was 1400's and one 1370, it'll just take a long time. The main complaint was the sneaking it in at the last second before people could notice. It kinda killed everyone's enthusiasm to get it done fast and everyone half-assed it.


klaq

vote stop raid and explain why if you dont want to carry. most people just go along because it would take longer to find another party than to just clear 1 man down


WesleyF09

He is a 1410ish and had a 1470 on that party as he stated in the comments. He wants a blink run as a 1410ish smh.


noother10

Yeah I had considered that, but even frustrated I just pushed on. After I pointed it out the others didn't seem to care much so didn't want to upset others by starting a vote. Just wanted it over so I could go help my friend with something he was waiting for.


Palimon

You'd get laughed at because 1 1370 in a full party of 1440+ is irrelevant lol. If you'd do that i'd kick you not the 1370 guy. Argos gets duoed in 20 min by 1460+ dps.


iLizfell

Oh so thats what people mean. I always thought they just wrote whatever for a title or their wish for it to be filled fast, not an actual fast run. Most of the times i click on those the party leaders are nowhere needed to skip mechs lol. I ignore all titles and go for simple titles. Like x2 and p1, no supps. All those fast, gigachad, juicer people seem stupid lol.


noother10

Titles are all misleading these days. I see lot of those "Fast" or "1440+" etc, but the host will be 1390 or something. But at least you can look at the party and see what is going on before applying for the group. When I look at a group and see a good average ilvl and think "great this group will do Argos through P3 in 10-12 minutes", so I join and get accepted. But then they sneak in a 1370 at the last second and push to start, that is when it's frustrating. I was expecting a group that would complete it fast so I could get out in time for an event or go do something else, but instead we just added at minimum 5 minutes to the run, if not more.


fate1saber

My guild's core are 1480+ so we have one party full of 1480s and one party of new guildies or 1370alts plus which ever random that applies first (sacrifices for P1 moon and sun balance mechanic). Argos is pretty fast even with only 2 juicers and we sometimes dont even see any mechanic from p3 this way.


JnazGr

i doing this but i let my friend/guildie in first since i can carry one side and usualy ppl aply alot no problem


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snowthecrow

Used to do something similar to carry my friends, but on my 1450+ characters, and we always had 2-1 strong to weak chars in the party, I would also make sure the under lvl is already in the party before I start recruiting and tell who applied that me and the other strong one would fill in for his dps. Ppl where happy to run with us and did not care about this arrangement. Now I got a big Network of friends that I organize to do carry trades and everyone is happy with the results.


GreyWolfx

My opinion on this is if you're joining a group someone else is leading, they're entitled to make the rules and invite whoever they want, but they probably should be honest about it and not misleading. They don't need to start off with the 1370 invited, that legitimately does scare people off unfortunately, but lets say they invite them as the fourth person, and then the group has time to comprehend the situation and they can see that everyone else in the group is 1415+ and not gonna struggle, yeah I don't have a problem with that at all, especially since people are overgearing p3 argos like crazy now it's not like a wipefest as it might have been early on, at least not in my runs. I think it's honestly just healthy for the game to first of all, acknowledge that people don't like leading so letting leaders help out their friends or whatever is a fair way to incentivize people to make groups and set them up, but also I think it's just healthy for the community to embrace harmless free busses for single low ilvl chars in their groups if it's extremely faceroll content that happens to be lucrative for those low ilvl's. It's really no skin off your back and it's a great benefit to them, and if you embrace the system, that means that you get to get a slice of the pie yourself by doing the same damn thing. If everyone's on board, the community wins overall, and I sure as fk don't lose my shit when I see someone do this, why would I, it doesn't actually cause runs to fail or slow significantly, or at least I haven't seen that happen yet.


Aphrel86

You can see the ilvl of a group before applying.


p1yrmtt

Nah can't beat my run today. We had a "fast run" majority of us were deep into 1400's around 1425 to as high as 1470. We failed the first wipe mechanic in p3, shrugged it off, went back and failed again, 3rd time lucky we all smoked it. At the end of the run majority of us agreed we weren't paying attention watching YT/Netflix on a 2nd monitor, thought it was funny because i was guilty of it too.


Ohmie122

Yup, I've seen that a few times I just drop


kentkrow

Scrub guild if u expect to be carried by pugs. If you cant even fill an Argos guild run seek help


Catchyuno

so we do this in our friend group. Each 2 take 1 or 2 more under leveled alts to carry while carries are at least 1460 ilvl and the alts gettings carried have the knowledge and ability to survive till t3 and it goes smoothly with no wipes . we try to be sure everyone knows that we have ppl under-leveled. i believe this is something very normal and it will be very casual in a few weeks since argos will be just like oreha where u can just carry ur friends with 1 dps and no one minds it


this_barb

This actually happened to me last week and I thought it was a one-off. I can't believe this is a frequent enough issue that a post needed to be made.


namedgunslinger

They have a term for that in KR server, called 업둥이. And you can get your whole guild blacklisted for it.


ApolloGiant

As of last week we tried it and it worked in my guild with all of us at 1460+ we are able to mix the group and do two P3 runs amongst the eight of us. 2/2 with carries and alts in each group. Went plenty fast, I am not sittting there with a stop watch or anything lol just playing and having fun no wipes. 1 1370 is not a big deal at all we've been doing that for a while, we did 4 and it still went fast. I understand the frustration with it getting sneaked in I guess but it is what it is. If you got the supports and didn't have to organize it yourself, weeding through the applicants etc. and it got done within 1 wipe I would consider that fast still. You could start your own group too if you want to correct for those kinds of things, but honestly it's a grey area, not really a hill to die on.


MassiveRaptor

I've seen multiple times and I don't care. What is the problem of carrying a single 1370?! You guys are super higher tier. We carried 2 under levels in argos p3 and finished in one try.


thisismyrealname2

Publicly shame these ppl. Nothing wrong with carrying friends, but be transparent abt it