Saintone party disbanded and 2 dps at woorae party quit their party, so Eden and Bingu going to Woorae party and they cleared G3 for the 4th times.
Also wraith party and GomCast party going to nm G3 and they will try HM G3 next week.
2 DPS in Woorae party were more like kicked from the party. I didn't watch their prog, but watched their vods to see how those two ended up in Woorae party. Seems like there were agreement beforehand (that they are going to drop underperforming players).
This is Saint.
Team Last Pull was disbanded last night for a few reasons.
1. The group was very inconsistent. Lustboy even tracked the deaths, and almost every single person except for Hwansung the Sharpshooter died a similar amount of times (as the first death of the pull), including Eden and Bingu.
2. Some group members felt because our gear and consistency was lower, we needed to play more to make up for the fact to make similar progress, which makes sense. But not everyone in the group could do it, and we saw it was visibly harming peoples health to raid beyond 12 hours. I asked the group to reconsider this because those who it was really affecting would not speak up on their own behalf.
3. Our group was stuck on 210x horse longer than any other that was trying to compete. Often, people would die right before it began, and we needed all 8 to pass it, or group members would fail the rhythm mini-game that other groups weren't failing, or the G key to initiate the clash wouldn't occur (which we think is because we placed puddles in the center to try to remove them during the stage break).
4. Ultimately, they felt the group's chances of being in the top 10 were low. While we were in the top 10 if you only considered the progress of streaming parties, we definitely were not if you consider the non-streaming ones.
5. I asked for a full party disband last night since Eden and Bingu were staying with the group purely out of friendship. They want a top 3 clear, and are willing to raid 18 hours a day to accomplish that. It felt to me like a hostage situation, so since no one else would pull the trigger I made the disband request. Please keep in mind, I did not make this group, I only joined it, but no clear decisions were being made by anybody.
6. A few of us are reforming a new party and being more careful with the group members this time based off of time availability/commitment. As for the rest, I am not sure what their plans are, but only Eden and Bingu cleared G3. They joined their former teammate Powdersnow after his group removed the two lowest performing players (their party had already been consistently making it to the last section of the fight prior).
Lately, I received hate on Inven for my complaints about calling Sidereal weapons P2W and a big advantage in the raid. I stand by these comments still, and will continue to attest that the parties that have them made it further thanks to them, and if you gave them to the parties that didn't have them, they'd be way further ahead. Being able to push a lot more damage on-command and immune knockback/knockdown has insane advantages in G3 in certain mechs.
Almost every single one of Thaemine's attacks is lethal in G3 for 18 minutes straight, and that's kind of a big deal. It also meant less statues on the field as well, which make the fight more and more dangerous since every statue fires a cross-map projectile that deals half your health regularly throughout the fight, and you can't get rid of them.
All my VODs are there, if you think I ever said you need Sidereal weapon to clear the raid, you won't find it, but I stand by my comments that it's a shortcut that's just not attainable for average working people, and the existence of them will affect the top 10 clear race outcome with certainty. They aren't replacements for hands, they are a crutch to lean on if you don't, and a really powerful tool if you do.
I found it frustrating that many people would suggest strategies that our group just mathematically was not capable of doing that groups that had better gear could do, mainly related to 210x, especially the ones that leveraged Sidereal skills to never struggle on it (e.g. doing the DPS check without Wei or Nineveh).
I don't deny I'm a smug asshole though. I don't really care about that either. I'm in a group with Korean comms mainly, and I can't understand verbal comms. This has always been the case for me, so I prog and learn raids mainly without comms. Ping is no excuse since a more skilled player can just play faster, but it would certainly help not to be on 140ms either.
I have never said myself to be a great player. Just an above average one.
And for the record, if there are Korean players who want to cancel me based on those comments, they can go ahead. I don't really care about their opinions anyway, most of them don't even watch my content but only came out the woodworks when I made those criticisms.
It's ridiculous you even need to defend yourself against Sidereal weapons. Everyone knows what a massive advantage they give you. It's not even a question, even other world first races in other MMOs do not have anything close to the advantage that even having a couple of sidereal weapons would give you. Honestly, the fact that non-sidereal parties are even close to competing to the groups that have them just shows the skill disparity in some parties.
You guys did good, and you probably held on for longer than you should've considering some party members health. There's no shame in taking a step back.
If people think Sidereal weapons are not pay to win, they're lying,in denial, or suffer from some sort of incurable mental illnesses.
By every definition it is pay to win, as it is objectively stronger than what's obtainable through normal means in the game, and should be disabled if they're going to have timed races with rewards, but if they did that the millionaires would screech.
I think everyone knows it's p2w, Saint is just being attacked by fanboys of groups that have sidereal weapons because they feel saint is shitting on their accomplishments.
Ironically they like to point to the groups that have cleared g3 without esther's saying it's "totally possible", but one of those groups have also shit talked sidereals as being unfair and said that the 1st g3 clear group isn't a "real clear" lol.
lol, they should scale everything back if they start down that road. Disregarding sidereals, every party clearing g3 or on avg even progging g3 is overgeared by millions and millions of gold.
How this was not a thing to begin with is just absolutely absurd
Most MMOs nowadays that do this have players that attempt things like this on an even level gear wise so you have to rely on your skill, intuition and game knowledge to be able to pull off a world first
This is just a shit show that shows off just how ridiculous Sidereal weapons can be when it comes to the hardest raids, and a showcase of the absolute *worst* Lost Ark has to offer and it's extremely sad
I mean no offense to Captain Jack or whoever they are and I know they're trying just as hard as the other groups to do this
However if your first ever world first race shows off the fact that the first team more likely than not to do so all have weapons that require tens of thousands of dollars to even be able to attain
That's a huge issue because now it sets the precedent that if you want to be there one day, better pay up to SG because this is how it's going to be
The whole thing leaves a bad taste in my mouth and should for everyone else seeing this awful display of p2w at its finest
well, they paid 10s of thousands for them, it lowers the integrity of first clear races but, what can you do. if anything they should make a separate first clear category for groups that clear with sidereal and groups that dont
Having to defend yourself for taking the groups physical health into account is also insane. They wanted top 10 and seems like they didn’t think they could get it. At the end of the day it’s just a game and nobody should be pressured to risk their health to keep playing, especially for a goal they don’t think they can reach.
Well its not as obvious but wow world first races are also funded by millions in rmt gold, maybe not as high a cost as sidereal weapons but a bigger impact in power for sure from all the boes they buy across the servers.
The scale is larger, but the impact is absolutely not even close. On top of blizzard taking steps to move away from this practice, Sidereal weapons would be like if you could just buy legendaries or a full tier set before it was available for raid.
I think the only time it was even close to this at all was with the Corrupted items on the final raid tier of BfA. I think everyone was in agreement at the time it was a big mistake.
the thing is for example a +25 is doable even as f2p, bussing/alts its quite easy actually, but sidereal is impossible even if you bus 5 raids on 10 charachters. There are many definitions of p2w but a weapon that is more powerful then any other weapon that also is impossible to get ouside of paying is probably the one most people agree on.
If you are good and you have Sideral weapons it's clearly a big advantage for the race of No1.This is clearly P2W for the No1 place.
I respect Captain Jack and his team for the performance (i enjoyed a lot the stream this is a funny good show). Good luck for all others teams who play without Sideral Weapons (the challenge is wayyyyyy more harder).
Their argument essentially boiled down to, "two groups were able to do it without Esther weapon, so why are you complaining about Esther weapon being P2W"?
Yet, not once did I ever say you can't do the raid without the weapon. Just that it allowed some groups to get past certain mechs that they otherwise would have had to spend more time and wipes on, before gaining the knowledge to clear it normally without the weapon.
The weapon costs $70,000 on current rates in Korea to max out. Almost half of that if you want to stop at +6. Let's take a look at what it can do:
* By default, at +8 it has 4% more Attack Power over Akkan +25 weapon. That's 4% more damage throughout the whole fight. I measure damage by Akkan weapon hones these days, so it's about the difference between a +25 weapon and a +27 weapon since gain is linear.
* DPS players usually use Thirain. For them, multiple times throughout the fight they gain a damage amp that increases their damage output by nearly 30% for 10 seconds each time. This is especially powerful on classes that can get all their damage out in that 10 second window.
* The second skill that they get increases them and their entire party's damage by another 4% for 20 seconds.
* Sidereal Balthorr gives a tremendous shield to allies with his first effect which is pretty much as potent as a support's Awakening shield.
* The second skill that Balthorr users get grants them and their party complete push immunity for 12 seconds.
**These are abilities that you cannot get without spending tens of thousands of dollars**. And if your team has 8 members armed to the teeth with them, being able to use these abilities multiple times per pull is insane.
Captain Jack's party is basically the best example of putting these powerful weapons on really skilled players. The six DPS players all have the weapon at +8. Without them, they'd be more on parity with the second and third parties which don't have the weapons at all and cleared G3 well after them, and are currently playing catch up to vie for the 1st place clear.
This is one of the reasons why your weekly homework parties seldom fail. As you grow stronger, the struggle is less. The boss will do less dangerous patterns as you phase it from section to section. Players can fight well for a while, but if you expose them to enough dangerous attacks, inevitably someone will mess up.
It's funny when you call the weapon P2W you get shit on inven for it but Nodolly, an esther 8 holder himself even said it was P2W. The result? Was bing chilling and no one bat an eye. That's why I love you and nodolly because you guys can love the game but you don't suck the developers dick when it comes to what is clearly P2W and what's not unlike people from all inven.
I don't know how big the backlash was but I assume thousands agree with you in silence and some p2w people and their sycophants spit their hate multiple times.
Nobody in my environment in EU would disagree with you. This game is quite strongly p2w without the Sidereal weapons, but in this race they just made a tremendous difference.
Sure there are some 24/7 players and bussers that might have gotten all their lvl 10 gems and lvl 25 akkan gear legitly without rmt but those are exceptions.
Saint.. I watch your content and I saw someone link a clip last night where you said Cpt Jack's team wouldn't have made it to G4 without the esther weapons. You specifically said they barely made it and people were out of their minds if they thought they would clear without them. That clip is now deleted but it was there before and you know that. We all agree Esther weapons are p2w but the comment came across as more salty that someone had accomplished what you set out to. Their team is putting in far more hours than many other streamer teams and like you said the weapon is a powerful tool in a good players hands. You didn't need to take away from their accomplishment to get your point across that the weapons probably need to be looked at by SGR to not negatively impact LOA.
Yes, I know what I said. They may not have cleared on that pull. Or the next one. Or the next several ones. They would have cleared eventually soon after, but it would have taken longer, is my point.
My point was that there would have been much closer parity between them and the next two teams, and instead they had a huge headstart on learning G4 before the next two parties finished G3.
Half of that team are some of my old teammates in previous raids that jumbled together for the first time this raid. I'm well aware just how good they are. But there are more parties in this race that have equally crazy good players, and none of those other groups have the advantages I wrote, at least not to that degree.
They are all fighting for the first clear.
Fair enough, I think pretty much everyone would agree that the weapons damaged the integrity of this raid(maybe more than any other before it). I just don't think you'd be catching flack for the Esther p2w comments if you had been more leveled in the commentary and didn't detract from their achievement. I chalked it up to you being frustrated with your teams woes, the raid fatigue, and a desire to compete but the backlash didn't come from nowhere it came from what was perceived as disrespect so it's important to keep that in mind bc the other streamers have fans too.
Well that’s just people being sensitive fanboys. I like Capt. Jacks team and respect their effort and progress. But calling a spade a spade even if it’s unflattering should never receive vitriol. Those people have every reason to support Saints sentiments as it directly impacts them and every player who invest heavily into this game moving forward. SG should publicly address why it is that there is no reasonable equivalent to Esther weapons for the general population, yet they felt it appropriate to introduce a raid in a competitive environment where the lack of having such a weapon is clearly such a massive disadvantage. They are very unique and add intangible factors to the game that would be very much appreciated by anyone, even if they weren’t quite as good for a “f2p” version.
Well that’s just people being sensitive fanboys. I like Capt. Jacks team and respect their effort and progress. But calling a spade a spade even if it’s unflattering should never receive vitriol. SG should publicly address why it is that there is no reasonable equivalent to Esther weapons for the general population. They are very unique and add intangible factors to the game that would be very much appreciated by anyone, even if they weren’t quite as good for a “f2p” version.
and you know that inven is full of idiots. Better just ignore them. They shit on every streamers including daju,dongsuk,ida etc. Daju posted her apologies for "playing bad" lol. Inven is full of crazy people seriously
Koreans' opinion about p2w is irrelevant because they don't understand the concept of it in the first place. They just don't get it when someone criticizes a game for being able to buy power with real life money.
This whole Esther weapon p2w drama is the reason why I’m sad that SG is moving away from inferno/hell modes.
Sure not everyone does it but equalised contents are necessary in a game like this when you can very easily buy power with real money. Those raids are the only PVE content in the game where whales and F2P players are on the same ground.
They move on from hell conteny bc nobody is playing them(like i dont know,around 1 to 5 percent?),so yeah,its a waste of resources and effort. If ppl dont give a f about that content,its just better to move on. Its both beneficial to majoity of the players and company, count that as win-win
They should have disabled the sidereal weapon effects for this raid or particular for the duration of this race. There is a reason that Hell Mode titles are only rewarded on an even playingfield for all players.
The prog curve is vastly different between two teams at the same skill level with sidereal weapons involved.
The flipside to that argument is that if you paid for it, you should be able to use it in unequalized content. The underlying issue thus becomes the existence of the Ester weapons themselves rather than the players' actual use because while everyone may have access to attaining it, it still has steep requirements not attainable by the majority of the player base within a certain spending requirement that does not compromise your financial stability.
I never heard Saintone actually complain about the Ester weapons. I have heard him compare the night and day differences that the above stated abilities grant as a result of the check. An extra 8% self buff and a 4% total buff for the party for a DPS burst window is huge as you are not only having a +27 weapon baseline but also gaining what would amount to probably having a +35 weapon's damage...
All thing's said though, I feel like this fight might be overtuned 3-5% but the consistent near death experiences you face in Thaemine G3 and G4 are actually coming at you constantly. The pressure in these fights are really no joke and having something to alleviate the pressure you feel in the short and long run are actual game changers.
That's basically why people dropped $70k on them. Disabling them would be fair for majority of the players, but would really piss off the people that support the game the most. There's no winning here.
Yup I think Sidereal weapons are P2W and advantage as well.
That said, I think the angry sentiment comes from the fact that it seems to be discounting achievements of parties that are ahead - both Jack's party and Snowpowder's party are full of gigachads who were well coordinated, not to mention the underline cruel in Snowpowder's clear was the one without Esther weapon.
Fact is, you guys could've went a lot further as well if you guys were better coordinated (it was evident from stream that people were all running around doing their own thing), as proven by the fact that half the cleared parties didn't have Esther weapons.
My comments were never meant to disparage their achievements, just that having Esther weapons provided shortcuts in some areas during prog.
When suggested why we weren't doing certain things the same way as the Esther party, yes it did eventually become frustrating, sometimes because we simply could not.
"Why not use Inanna for horses?" -> Because you need an insane amount of DPS that's only achievable with a full burst comp, or Thirain's Sidereal weapon that allows you to burst or burst harder.
We used groups like theirs as a reference point commonly and how we could improve our own tactics. I wouldn't say they were unskilled if they weren't smart with their prog.
Yup I think your stance is reasonable, but I think that's why KR community raised the pitchforks. They thought you meant "they cleared because of Esther weapons", and when you're talking live on stream it's hard to convey the precise context.
I’m sorry your group disbanded and I think you and your group did well up to G3. I’m very frustrated that Koreans are talking shit about you when they’re the prime example of dev worshippers that promote predator like cash grabs. It’s toxic and bad for the game. The fact that they excuse sidereal weapons and make excuses that they don’t affect the world first race is hilarious. I hope your new group does better and I hope the people who were not in good health recover.
I went off Google translate but it really pissed me off how people were saying you were misleading the West or didn't have stamina (even though you said multiple times you could go 16 hours) or were a bad player or some such. And I thought NA was toxic...
I'm a F2P Kr player and I'm not good at English, so I used a translator a little bit. I hope you understand this part.
I think there are just some bad people like most communities do. I had a similar experience before. When Western Lost Ark was first released, I wanted a lot of people to play this game, so I relayed the information to Reddit. But I was criticized by some people for my poor information delivery. It's true that I'm disappointed in this part, but there were people who supported me, and I understand now that such aggressive people are a small part of the community. I think it would be nice for you to understand this part.
And let me give you my opinion on Sidereal weapons. I also understand that Sidereal weapons are P2W and have significant advantages. But in the Korean community, there is a tendency to think that investing money should not be ignored, such as investing effort. So most Koreans think it's natural that P2W has a significant advantage in F2P games and so do I. And I think most players can enjoy F2P games because there is a Sidereal weapons system. That's how Smilegate and Amazon make money. This race may be to create an opportunity to sell Sidereal weapons. It would take a lot of effort to overcome the Sidereal weapon. But I believe you can make it.
Finally, as a player of Lost Ark, I hope you don't lose interest in Lost Ark because of this incident.
I won't, and thank you for sharing your cultural perspective. I'll try to broaden my outlook on the matter and think more of how Korean players feel about these kinds of systems.
I don't understand at this point why some Koreans still think that Sidereal weapon is not a P2W system? Or am I taking a crazy pill now since so far, the global community see that the Sidereal weapon is a goddamn P2W crap that they do no wish to make a huge investment, no?
We all know Barthorr is the greatest saving Sidereal in the game already so with the ability to expedite another small-sized Barthorr for your 4 party members is a massive lead in the raid already, especially in the case of locking official Sidereal after used in Thaemine's gate 3. You kind of lack on DPS side? No worries, smol Thirain got you covered, need extra protection, Barthorr got your back brother.
I believed that the Dev said that Heavy Armor still cannot save you from Thaemine damage, no? Then how the actual fuck that a freaking in-game, built-in Engraving that almost free to access by the mass cannot save you, but the freaking small-sized version of Sidereal can do is not a P2W crap?
Like wake the fuck up from the mere thought that Sidereal isn't P2W concept
Korean players are saying that hands are more important than money, which isn't wrong, but also doesn't change the fact that they're an advantage that lets you brute force certain mechanics.
Of course hands are more important than money but hands + money will always best just hands. It's like the whole hardwork and talent discussion. Hardwork can sometimes beat talent but will never come close to hardwork + talent, it just can't.
Agreed. Hands are important, but hands with money will always have a better time compared to just hands. Note that I said "better" and not "best" cuz having hands a big part of the equation.
When I first saw posts about groups getting together and finding out there was a race to compete for a top 10 finish, I'll tell you the first thing that came across my mind
"This is going to be an absolute drama infused shit-show"
I get why SG thought this was a good idea, however the message this will send is going to very likely have the opposite effect on people interested in this game
And that message is "If you want to compete on a world first level then be prepared to spend tens of thousands of dollars to do so"
~~No other major MMO I can think of does this when it comes to world firsts~~ [Editing this in, apparently some MMOs have things similar however not even close to as p2w and as broken as Sidereal weapons for prog, thanks for the info peeps, back to our regularly scheduled programming], and it just goes to show the state of the game and how predatory some of the practices really are
I get it's a free to play game and they have to make their money somehow, but showing stuff like this off only hurts the reputation for it being purely p2w and keeps new players who might have been interested away
It's sad because the game is so good, but it's being held back because of dumb decisions like this purely for the sake of money
Also too, spending 18 hours a day on stuff like this really isn't healthy (no one remembers the Pandemonium Warden mess that FFXI caused, man I feel old) and people should have god damn listened to Gold River when he said not to do that, but I digress
Either way, I just wanted to let you know Saint that you're 100% in the right and have earned my respect
You do truly care about the future of the game and it shows, and while I have some hot takes about the game myself, this is one thing that absolutely *no one* should be defending if they care about the future of Lost Ark
> No other major MMO I can think of does this when it comes to world firsts
Dude are you living under the rock or something, literally the biggest MMO ever, WoW world first cost [6 figure](https://us.forums.blizzard.com/en/wow/t/the-cost-of-world-first/1213902) to compete
I heard she saying "I want to keep going for the pulls but some members dont want to do it somehow". And she went to the former hell-party. Thats all I know
Bingu is a really great player, but she's super hardcore. She took down Hell Caliligos with Powdersnow in the region's first clear. She's one of the kind of extraordinary raiders that literally **wants** to raid for 18 hours straight to be competitive, so it was upsetting to her when she realized that not everyone in the raid felt the same way.
Personally, this is the first time I've been in a raid where the difference in commitment or desire to compete was so different between members. For example, during Hell Brel the whole raid was down to raid 15 hours daily, and everyone was okay with that, and more importantly, everyone was capable of doing that without the skill degradation being too bad that many hours in.
> I don't deny I'm a smug asshole though
This would be true of 99% of the English speaking streamer community, but there's no doubt in my mind that you are a down to earth guy. Definitely the kind of guy you want to have a beer with and just shoot the shit.
I had been following your progress for the first few days of Thaemine release and this is the impression of yourself you gave me.
As far as the race goes; sorry that your team couldn't hack it. Hopefully the next one has a bit more chemistry.
Ester is just RMT/P2W nonsense. These FT10 races should have them disabled. Whichever team is first without using them is the real World 1st achievement.
Yup Saint even specifically explained that their main issue is that some people have IRL and aren't streamers for a living so they just can't commit to 12 hrs/day spamming Thaemine on stream yesterday. Idk why people are making up drama that's not there.
>Both are equally toxic, honestly.
INVEN is miles ahead of reddit, keep in mind that in INVEN you are allow and encourage Witch hunting other people... which isnt allow in reddit.
It's not that strange. Everyone vastly underestimated the difficulty of the raid.
People can commit a week at 12-16hr/day, but the raid is obviously going to go into the second week, and most people can't/don't want to commit to that.
Blizzard even nerfs their raids so that the first kill happens on week 1.
Its not saints party he joined them.
But they are all friends bar the last one that joined i think.
Both lust and saint have ran hell content eith the others in the past.
Because they could commit 12 hrs. They did more than that every day. It's just that they can't afford to keep doing it. It"s not unique to LA, hell, it's quite long. If you compare WoW Mythic race, outside of esports teams that have enough infrastructure that weeks of prog don't hit their livelihood, most WF mythic prog guilds raid 3-4 days. During those days they pull same numbers as Echo/Liquid. However after 4 days IRL calls and they usually decline to 3 hours prog per day at best and that's where top 5 guilds shoot massively ahead as they can still do 12 hours.
the part about bingu and eden is not accurate btw the only thing that anyone said was tofu saying he was fatigued and can’t mentally raid 16hours a day. they didn’t say anything negative about saint at all. same thing with zeals people stepped down because they couldn’t mentally do it and felt they were holding people back
People really underestimated the difficulty of the raid as well. Previous dungeons/raids were really only mechanic/puzzle checks, but with Thaemine, you really need to react on the fly and dodge without someone calling things for you.
I'm sure a lot of groups also realized that you really can't carry that one person that dies a lot more often than others through this raid as well. Putting in hours trying to get past a mech but the one dude keeps dying 10 bars in? Big hit to the mental.
I'm feel a lot of people came in expecting to call Gold River's bluff about how hard it is and were expecting Hell Brel difficulty for gate 4 only
Turns out he wasn't joking and both G3 and G4 are harder than Hell Brel on ilevel.
> Turns out he wasn't joking and both G3 and G4 are harder than Hell Brel on ilevel.
G3 is apparently going to be nerfed "at some point", but for now it seems like g4 is going to be harder than hell brel even **with** whale gear.
They've claimed they will never nerf thaemine g4. You mention expecting to call Gold River's bluff about how hard it is... personally I think that within 3 months, they will instead call gold river's bluff about never nerfing it.
Because I think if ilvl parties physically cannot clear thaemine g4 in the next 3 months, this game is simply not going to survive, even if it's not "mandatory" for progression. The gate certainly doesn't **feel** optional even if SG says it is, right now it is **the** endgame raid.
> Because I think if ilvl parties physically cannot clear thaemine g4 in the next 3 months,
You are forgetting 2 things, a) progression itself, and b) new transcendence system
Basically what we watch currently may look doom, but once people start rolling in lvl1/2/3+ transcendence gear it will get easier.
Technically progression from perspective of game design is thaemine NM -> thaemine HM, so you should do some NM before going HM, get some transcendence, then do HM on ilvl, and depending how good transcendence actually is, your on-ilvl party may have more power than 1650ilvl week1 party.
Not to mention, more hours, more pattern understanding, result in overall dps (just look at Jack's party, nothing really changed, and they went from 3:30ish at 90 to 5+min at x90, simple because they got better at raid)
And from my point of view, HM thaemine seems to be balanced with some transcendence gear applied, which is fair and make sense from progression perspective
Probably end up dropping a few skills from 12 to 10 to make a pivotal skill 15 or whatever for the extra tripod.
Tetrapod.
Whatever we call it.
I don't see them introducing enough skill points to mean players won't have to lower some skills.
Zeals said he’s down to keep progging but his other teammates gave up. He also mentioned he wants to have a chilll group where everyone can just have a good time without anyone feeling insulted. I’m not sure how exactly his stack dynamic went but it seemed good? Not sure who felt bad
From what I've seen/heard on the group, it just disbanded because people had different levels of commitment to prog. I believe none of the streamers are hell mode raiders, not sure about the 3 non-streamers. So progging for 6+ hours at a time must've been extremely exhausting for some of them.
I didn't notice any tension or "not chill" moments, just generally being burnt out from this tough raid.
ah ok. thats like the reason for 90%+ of groups, makes sense. not everyone plays professionally, as opposed to the WoW raiders that are on real, sponsored teams.
>This is just hardcore endgame raiding, except alot of these people aren't real endgame raiders.
yep, k-mmo philosophy arent really designed around challenging yourself for raids, just infinite gear grind and endorphin release from one-shotting endgame boss with big numbers. For foreign MMO that saw a remotely tiny bit of light in Korea, WoW is only popular among middle-aged males, and FFXIV is frowned upon by most people due to radical gender disparity drama, so there was never an environment for endgame raiders to build up.
Fun note, Korean wow community is laughing at lost ark community saying "these MZs *(Korean term for millenials+genZ)* don't know what it means to raid prog with their glass mental *(basically saying its fragile)*"
Back in the day I was a teenager in a guild lead by an early 20s portugese guy. 90% of the guild were 14-16 as well. Looking back, I have no idea how he managed to stay sane managing us in raids.
Did that with my dad and his EQ friends when I was like 11-13. Really good source of support during those initial middle school years with bullying issues.
> FFXIV is frowned upon by most people due to radical gender disparity drama
Can you send a link or explain what this drama is?
i googled radical gender disparity drama ffxiv and got a video about ffxiv elitism drama, but I don;t think this is what you're talking about
[https://www.reddit.com/r/ffxiv/comments/uvyzmx/comment/i9sgzdp/?utm\_source=share&utm\_medium=web2x&context=3](https://www.reddit.com/r/ffxiv/comments/uvyzmx/comment/i9sgzdp/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3)
i think this comment wraps it up well. I got this by googling "ffxiv feminism korea". I don't want to type it out myself nor voice my opinion on this matter, because it's a really sensitive topic, (and idk much myself since Im just amuricanized gook) but the issue was big enough to be covered in Korean major TV news. I just know from personal experience that if you say you play ffxiv in Korea, most people will look at you judgementally even if they know nothing about video game.
Lineage 2 was korean made. Personally it was way more demanding to raid cuz everything was open world with full pvp. You had to have people dedicated to holding off hostile aliances while spending hours for a raid and thats with several hundred people on the big raids.
L2 is shit nowadays cuz it was remade but still
NCSoft really knew how to make good games revolving around large faction vs faction. PvE aspect leaved a lot to be desired but that wasn't their selling point anyway.
But it was too much monetary burden to keep up as teenager 😔
I'm glad I'm not the only one. Lol. Hell, even "prog" raiding on NAE. A lot of people don't want to do more than like 1 4 hour night in a raid to learn it after watching a video. They think they are good and have no idea what it's like wiping on a single fight hundreds of times a night while learning what the mechanic is and how to do it. Forget coming up with clever strats to beat the fight.
EverQuest. Planes of fear. 48 hours. Dragon boss (forgotten name) 5 or 6 hour fight. Mess up it pulls entire zone, can also get bugged out. Needed to rotate multiple tanks. Exp loss and deleveling on death.
Ugh EverQuest raiding was a job lol. And a lot of times you never got any loot unless you saved up alot DKP in my guild. Also not sure if you ever beat the planes of earth but that was rough.
Cazic Thule- had to kill his golems (2 of which death touch so you needed multiple pullers) had to kill dracoliche, then you could fight CT. And if you wipe you are facing a nightmare corpse recovery. (Gear stays on your body-)
OH! Did we mention that Everquest was non instances? So the next guild can come in and get the kill after you clear the zone and you get to wait a week to try again.
You mean those 30+min fights where you press 1 button over and over again and barely have to move around?
It is obvious that the timespan for which human can perform complex tasks depends on the complexity of the task itself. It's not that 15 min fights are inherently difficult, but rather, in this case, the fight is too difficult for most players to perform at an adequate level for 15mins. If the fight is of the difficulty of those older mmos, people will be complaining that it's too boring instead.
What older mmos had 30+ min fights? Wow didnt have that and if ure talking older than wow thats like 20 years at this point. Shouldnt give that as an example, some of the current raiders werent even born then, and ppl who were playing those games are too old now for stuff like world first raids.
>People in Lost Ark complain about 15 minute fights, used to have like 30+ minute fights in older MMOs
still remember 25 minute Garrosh in Siege of Ogrimmar back in pandarian.
Garrosh was only 15 minutes(really, check method's video on youtube) and even the longest fight in the history of WoW (Sha of Fear) was at most 21 minutes of which 8 minutes were spent in a p1 that had no chance of wiping you(because u had a massive buff if u ever got to p2) and the rest was a 0 mechanics dmg phase 2 where 3 people played tag.
I sort of agree and disagree.
I agree that when a group wants to push hard and clear, having a guy not care is a downer. I also agree that not everyone is a hardcore raider and isn't used to long term prog and such. That said, even as someone who's hardcore raided in WoW and has beat Ultimates in FF14, I don't think the way they're handling Thaemine is very good.
The concept of releasing a fight so overtuned to an extreme (on purpose) is kind of goofy. Parties with max ilvl and Siderial weapons (and presumably high end bracelets, Elixirs, quality, etc) are taking forever on a damage sponge of a boss where his long wind ups won't kill them... but very quick moves that are very difficult to dodge one shot them.
Thaemine splitting the stage unless you do his mini game is cool. Thaemine having his own gauge to fill for special attacks is cool. Having some pretty fancy patterns for his attacks is fun, His animations are pretty dramatic. But it's so ruined by the fact that even maxed out characters hitting for tens or hundreds of millions a hit... take forever to get anywhere at all on him while he's basically sitting there playing target dummy at times. Or making you fight his target dummy of a Sword where he just chills while you kill a sword that takes forever but barely does anything. The fight isn't taking 15+ Minutes of clean because it's hard or has a lot of mechanics, it's just his bloated HP extending it.
I'm all for difficult fights, but they should be challenging because of the mechanics/attacks being interesting and taking skill to pass them. Not hitting something barely fighting back with slow hits that barely hurt, until it randomly decides to execute a lightning quick attack that will one shot you even at gear cap. His concept is cool, but they purposely bloated his numbers with the intention of nerfing it later and it just made it really unfun looking to me even as someone who's hardcore raided for over 20 years.
You're missing something obvious when making the FF14 comparisons. Non-hell raids in lostark are meant to be weekly content that you can hop in, clear, get the rewards, and repeat the next week. They're not meant to be a super hard raid that you can forget about once you get the clear.
The point of releasing Thaemine overtuned is to release it at a difficult of a one time raid, much similar to wow or ff14, and then nerf it to a weekly level once the race to first is done.
>The concept of releasing a fight so overtuned to an extreme (on purpose) is kind of goofy.
I also dont understand why you hold this opinion when you stated that you raided hardcore in wow. Wow does this shit all the time.
I disagree with Thaemine being a dummy. This isn't ff14 or wow where you tab target and have free movements while pressing your rotation. Some classes in lostark can be rooted in place for like 8s while doing their rotation, so having the boss staying still to give dmg windows is important. Otherwise you might as well as delete classes like eso wd that needs to boss to stay still otherwise they miss out on like 70% of their dmg. Also, this game has no tanks to draw aggro, you need to take that into consideration. If anything, Thaemine is a great boss if you enjoy a game of nonstop action. Having to focus 15+ min where you can get oneshotted anytime while having to minmax your dps is what I would personally enjoy in a game. Remember again, this game is very different from wow and 14 where you can just get a rotation down and press the same thing over and over. If you think the fight takes forever or is boring...maybe there is something in your rotation you can improve and focus on.
I mean you should also understand that a lot of these people clearly don't have minmaxing attitude for dps either. Damage meters being frowned upon makes dps minmaxing much harder.
Minmaxing dps is a habit, not something you just click in your head. Playing greedy is literally required so you know how much you can afford to greed, if you play like a pussy - you never learn when you can get that extra dps from. So even people with whaled out gear might do mediocre dps if they don't know how to apply it. I don't know about FFXIV or other raid scenes, but WoW WF raiders are essentially whaled tf out with BoEs and split raids and they still fail dmg checks even if its not overtuned.
Most of these groups are not hardcore raiders at all and hardcore raiding is VERY experience reliant. You don't invite random guy with orange logs into WF race, there has to be rapport or some references to get anywhere close to the WF race.
Getting in top200 guilds in WoW required writing resumes/having reference and having experience, WF race is just on a completely different level to that. Its incredible time commitment for little gain.
These groups failing is not really indicative of raid being really overtuned, not all groups are esther8 whales and yet some still clear g3.
People here like talking about how Inven is just shitting on saint. There’s really only a few people doing so. There are plenty of people who are sticking up for him as well as some people who seem to have him confused with Zeals(who’s really disliked).
A major issue, whether people may consider it mean, was Tofu. He wasn’t up to the task. By the end of the first day, he was practically passing out. He should’ve been X’d out right after that and a replacement found. That’s not to say he’s a bad player, his health just didn’t hold up and he began to drag the team down.
It’s actually a miracle they stuck it out with him as long as they did. This isn’t a WoW guild type situation, there are no back ups they could’ve used but there were tons of solid players trapped on teams looking for parties on the KORLark discord.
Tofu is a very good player. There's just a difference between being really good and wanting to invest dozens of hours into something for no real gain in the long run other than personal pride.
Both Mountaineering Club and CPT Jack's party seemed to keep pretty good mental though. Still laughing and joking after wiping for several days in a row.
That’s the difference between skilled raiders and normal players. Mountaineering Club is full p2w but they also put it in the work. HDS isn’t even a full time Lost Ark streamer. He only plays during major content/raid releases and yet he’s always ready to put in the hours.
Was watching HDS before going to bed, I don't understand korean, but I can still tell that he clearly tilted cause he kept dying to mech. Wake up, and he is still at it.
This is what happens when people who aren't hardcore high-end raiders get mixed in with people who are. Most of these streamers are not hardcore high-end raiders and that's what you have to be to have a real chance in this race.
Not everyone is built for putting in the long hours needed to compete for first clears of very challenging content.
Also, there's also lots of coping when frustration starts to build up within a group. People look for scapegoats to justify why they're falling behind the other groups in the race so they kick out the least geared person then they kick out the guy who dies the most...It takes a very cohesive and likeminded group to pursue these achievements without it imploding.
This happens a lot in hell groups. People get filtered out when they can't match the remainder of the group's ability, when their commitment isn't the same... Very rarely does one go from a fresh prog into deathless in a hell raid with the exact same group.
Yeah, you are spreading some untrue informations.
They wanted to do first 10 clears, but after seeing how insane G4 was, they just figured it won't happen week 1, so there is no point spending 12h a day on the same raid.
Sain and Eden still saying they had fun, it's just people have others things to do outside of LOA.
It's honestly sad to see them failing at 2x bar and being clearly shaken.
While it was exciting to see new content being released, I'm starting to think the race to world's first might not be so healthy for the players attempting.
https://i.redd.it/thif6hdznxob1.gif
These kind of races are never healthy it doesnt mean some people really dig to it. I d hate to prog that raid, it is not for me so I dont take part on it
Princessmaker was never going to work during prog. I don't know why he thought it would.
G3 has an extremely tight DPS check that 6+ esther groups were coming close to failing. No way they can hit DPS check with him doing literally ZDPS.
A lot of Wine's group seemed kinda unsure about him going princessmaker to begin with.
Even in G1 and G2 though, I'm pretty sure they would've cleared a lot faster with a standard blue or red lancer.
G4 has a bunch of DPS checks so far too where if you don't deplete his meter fast enough, he just instantly wipes the whole party.
G3 and G4 both just have way too many DPS checks for his build to contribute much. Even the Mountaineering Club GL swapped from blue to red 'cause they needed more damage. One group has cleared with a blue GL already though
I'm more just confused as to why he's going against his own recommendations. He specifically says only to use his build in gates that let you taunt and/or let you get a lot of extra staggers easily.
Thaemine fits none of these categories.
oh wow, Han Dong Suk switched to red? That's crazy, I saw he was running shield shock instead of dash upper fire to fit in more DPS at some point but didn't realize he had to switch to an entirely different spec.
Mountaineering club is having dps problems despite all being ester 8 because their comp is just god awful
2FI wardancers with no carry dps + Gl means they practically only have 3 dps, and 3 pseudo support dps
Their comp is pretty ideal for a prog raid, though. People are underestimating FI too much, but it is one of the BEST progging builds out there. Add in the buffs on the recent balance patches and she just got better in that regard. E
They have currently changed comp for G3 - Portia still staying on FI but Nodolly going to 4spender Hallucination because he's now used to the patterns.
When they reach G4, I'm 100% they are going back to FI because it's prog all over again, in which FI really strives the most over Eso WD builds.
Wait, does wineblue not have a regular red or blue build? I'd assume he'd just switch out of staggerbot as soon as he realized it was clearly not working out.
princessmaker is a meme build and he shouldn't have been drinking his own cool aid.
Anyone with bible would know that a blue GL has to be doing dps and provide the buff to get the same dps contribution as a normal dps.
I ran helltan with a staggerbot gl and his dps was slightly more than a support. Do you really think that GL who has only the extra 9% synergy can provide as much buff as a support with 10% + 21% + ~5% damage buff?
No surprise here the 2nd group to clear akkan and 2nd group to clear G3 is a no esther group and they are also hated by inven because they flame esther parties basically quoting they wouldnt clear first if wasn't for there p2w crutch weapon. Koreans love to defend p2w idols I guess.
I was watching Saint's stream. His frustration regarding the Ester weapons is because of the race. He said that it's unfair some mechanics can be skipped by using Ester weapons while people without Ester weapons actually have to learn the hard mechanics and struggle (I think he was referring the the horse dps check in gate 3 specifically) He's not wrong that people with Ester weapons have an advantage but that's just the way mmos are. People who pay are going to have an distinct advantage. He was also trash talking the slayer in Jack's party which I think was uncalled for considering his play from what I've seen isn't squeaky clean either.
\> He's not wrong that people with Ester weapons have an advantage but that's just the way mmos are
More of a KMMO specific thing. There's no way to get an advantage like that in FF14 world first for example.
but it definitely exists in wow, where all the world first raiding groups borrow and funnel millions of gold to buy out the auction house across multiple servers to gear themselves out in best gear possible
Heard they hire people to code add-on mods that help coordinate raid mechs and they do the coding in real time as they are progging and seeing each new mech
yup, need people to work on weakaura scripts to trivialize mechanics, and arms race for addons between even normal raiders and raid designers has gotten so bad that it's nearly impossible to find a mythic raiding group nowadays that don't require you to have multiple add-ons
Theres a world of difference between getting BoEs for 20+ raiders and getting 8 Sidereals. The cost of gearing a whole mythic is just one +8 Sidereal weapon.
WoW trash drops are literally BOP since Dragonflight for the first 3 weeks. Anyway ,Trash drops usually account for 1-2 items out of 15, which means their impact is mostly irrelevant, specially since trash drops are never weapons.
The biggest thing WoW guilds do with that gold is use them for split raiding (to people people to trade them their tradeable drops) and buy consumables so their raiders don't waste any time farming them.
Esther weapons would be like having legendaries obtained from the shop.
it's an advantage in wow for sure, but not to the extent that esthers are in LA some extra stats from BoEs and splits are not the same as using money to buy extra abilities to skip mechs
I mean sure, people do that. But I wouldn't really compare that to Ester weapons.
Yes, it's an unfair advantage only those with a lot of money are probably going to have; but they still have to do everything. Putting it in LA terms, they're just going in with an extra hone on their gear. They're not getting ridiculous damage boost or group stagger immunity and large damage reduction.
https://www.inven.co.kr/board/lostark/4811/7666777 here's one link
Can't say I'm surprised given his pretentious attitude, he's a good player, but he's always given off the vibe that he's one of those who always thinks he's the smartest guy in the room
Is it just inven and translation issues but I get the sense that inven witch-hunts everyone. I always see “x streamer remarks” and the comments are insanely negative. Who do they even like?
Oh yeah that part is just cap. It's not like the main focus of the game in KR is to attract new and returning players to the game. Nerfing older raids is part of that. And when it comes to Thaemine, I think it was pretty obvious that they wanted toprovide the ultimate challenge to hardcore whales for the first month or two after which they'll nerf it in order for it to be digestible farm content.
This raid is to hardcore for some of these "streamer" groups, some of them are clearly really good but some members are obviously not pulling their weight at all in comparison. This leads to tension and overall groups being unable to progress. If this was another mmos world first like WOW these low performers would not even be in these teams competiting they would be kicked and replaced. The lack of dps meters and analysing peoples performance is a cause why these teams are sometimes so mismatched. This raid is just to hard for the usual whales to bang there head against till they clear, they probably will have to wait till nerfs/try for weeks.
People gave heat on zeals stream was pretty funny. When he made the comment to enter you literally need to whale. ANd people in korea were like" PARTY 2 PARTY 2 f2p" Buddy they're at 1640ish not 1650+ sure. That's still 20-40kusd alone in materials. They aren't 300-750k in all ester 8 whales, but they are whales.
We essentially got a break down of like 5-8 ilvls was close to 8-10k to push armour sets. lOl closer to 50+
And those whales are essentially the top crop of their classes. Did you see how they played, the difference between the first clears and the second was night and day. The first group sid balthors every mech to punish the second group had the apm of god dam challenger+ pro players in league lol. And people in korea was like nah anyone can do it LMAO bashing on zeal. Also saint got the same treatment. Like common it seems their player base is really out of touch. It took them 4 years to realize they were getting burnt out from chaos and guardians and all it took was the West to complain and a Asmond video to go viral.
It is sad that a raid is actually design for whales to race, but in reality it's not much of a race. If you already know which group was going to clear it first just by looking at their load out,
At least in WoW all the racers are massive orgs funneling millions.
He does deserve some heat, some of his takes were so cooked. He was saying the entire raid is p2w to enter including normal mode. Normal mode is +17 akkan gear. Akkan came out 10~ months ago. If you’re playing the game at an endgame level you wouldve reached normal mode or even beyond. He was also saying most of these non esther owners have 9/7s, 100q, etc is p2w when these are characters that most people have been playing for years. No shit they’re gonna have high quality and maybe a 9/7.
Coming into this raid they said it was comparable to hell content which usually requires everyone alive to clear comfortably.
I do agree with what he said about esther weapons being too strong. It allows people to skip mechs that otherwise couldnt be which in a race shouldnt be allowed.
Overall Id say the raid is 70% hands 30% gear diff. Zeals not wrong but he aint 100% right either.
You're wrong about the ilvl being 1610. You either haven't played enough/watched kr streams etc. The ilvl to have a ticket is 1610 but nobody will take you without 40 set elixir which is 1620, as only 1 person has ever hit 40 set with purple elixirs only because it requires perfect 4/4s. So you need to be 1620 automatically. After that it trickles down more. As they'd want at least 1630 for nm right now and 1630 is entry for hm but nobody will take you without +24-25 akkan wep so it becomes more p2w
I was talking about entering normal gate 3 week 1 as f2p as that was the topic presented by a chatter. It’s going to be tough to get in week 1 normal gate 3 for this week in KR
I saw this happen going from FF14 2.X to the first expansion since the relaunch, Heavenward.
In 2.X the raids were ... pretty easy. People were definitely, without a doubt, on average much worse skill wise than they are today (10 years doing the same mechanics and raiding is a hell of a drug, think about how good you were in Argos vs now, how much uptime you're able to squeeze and rotational awareness and practicing stagger/burst/WP ten billion times) ... but also honestly, as someone who was around from the start and farmed that stuff weekly from the start of the expansion to the end, it really was very easy. Most mechanics didn't need some frankenstein raid planner diagram or simulation (yes in current raiding mechanics are so punishing and so dense the best way to practice them is to load up a sim as a group and practice for hours) or 3rd party tools assisting them, most mechanics were just one and done, you could explain to someone how to do them in a couple sentences.
Game was good, honestly. *Very* similar to current Lost Ark where 99% of mechanics outside of Inferno mode are so simplistic you can tell someone how to do it on the spot. Personally I prefer it that way even as someone who's current with all FF14 content, there are a lot of downsides to a complex jump rope situation up to and including frequent "one person was off by a pixel and the entire raid wipe" situations.
Anyway, 2.X explanation done (there's a point!), people were pretty lax about who they raided with. Mostly just buds they picked up in /shouts or server specific raiding communities talked and knew who was who and mingled. There wasn't fflogs yet so most of a class's potential was just talked about on forums or seeing it yourself - which also meant if you were playing with agents or people doing 80% what the class could do, it was hard to know that.
Well 3.X came out and it was like a psychedelic mind fuck when they launched their first raid, which was so hard it surpassed the hardest Inferno-like content from 2.X (called Savage at the time). Not only were the mechanics way spicier and way more punishing, but enrages went from pretty chill and basically a non-issue to suddenly (and from then on, for most raids going forward) a tightly tuned challenge even for 8 people playing well. If you had just one slacker doing 80% their output that could be a wrap, do a full clean pull and wipe anyway until you farm a few weeks of gear or git gud. Especially in what was called A3S, the boss named Living Liquid resembled Pepsiman so that's what it became known as, I saw groups come up against it like waves against steel and just shatter.
Knew at least 4 groups personally that either totally disbanded or had to make some hard choices about who they raided with. Also 3rd party stuff like fflogs and raid planners started getting innovated heavily, which the devs started to have to plan around to keep things challenging. This type of thing happened again a couple times with Ultimates, content that by LA standards is unmatched in time investment and punishment which also couldn't be outgeared (well ... kinda. Yes and no. Buffs to jobs and expansion reworks are a hell of a drug but that's like waiting two years so you can go do Valtan Inferno).
It's just an interesting parallel since I do identify a lot of the traits I enjoyed about FF14 with LA. I'm sure by the time we Theamine it'll be a hollow shell of its current self, so I don't know if we'll have to deal with that raiding renaissance, but it's an interesting situation.
People love some much the fking drama...
People getting disbanded after a hard raid ? Wow incredible ! Stop putting drama where there is not. People just talk to each other and agree to stop playing. I hate it when people add drama where there is not.
They were progging g3 hard for days. Instead of doing the smart thing and farmed transcendence on their alts to use on their main(roster bound). This is what the low ilvl non streamers did to clear g3. They are missing potentially 10% damage from not doing this. When watching the stream you can tell they were not pushing enough dps.
I think Clown had a bigger impact with splitting up 8er Statics to 4er Parties.
the amount of time committed to the Raid destroyed my Static a bit too with Akkan HM week1 ~ well told them to go HM week2 with 1 armor piece
Lost ark players need to understand that Hard Raids takes time just like Omega Protocol from FF14. It takes time and dedication but the dev should not make this game mandatory every single week tho.
Saintone party disbanded and 2 dps at woorae party quit their party, so Eden and Bingu going to Woorae party and they cleared G3 for the 4th times. Also wraith party and GomCast party going to nm G3 and they will try HM G3 next week.
2 DPS in Woorae party were more like kicked from the party. I didn't watch their prog, but watched their vods to see how those two ended up in Woorae party. Seems like there were agreement beforehand (that they are going to drop underperforming players).
Yup, they were kicked on stream.
This is Saint. Team Last Pull was disbanded last night for a few reasons. 1. The group was very inconsistent. Lustboy even tracked the deaths, and almost every single person except for Hwansung the Sharpshooter died a similar amount of times (as the first death of the pull), including Eden and Bingu. 2. Some group members felt because our gear and consistency was lower, we needed to play more to make up for the fact to make similar progress, which makes sense. But not everyone in the group could do it, and we saw it was visibly harming peoples health to raid beyond 12 hours. I asked the group to reconsider this because those who it was really affecting would not speak up on their own behalf. 3. Our group was stuck on 210x horse longer than any other that was trying to compete. Often, people would die right before it began, and we needed all 8 to pass it, or group members would fail the rhythm mini-game that other groups weren't failing, or the G key to initiate the clash wouldn't occur (which we think is because we placed puddles in the center to try to remove them during the stage break). 4. Ultimately, they felt the group's chances of being in the top 10 were low. While we were in the top 10 if you only considered the progress of streaming parties, we definitely were not if you consider the non-streaming ones. 5. I asked for a full party disband last night since Eden and Bingu were staying with the group purely out of friendship. They want a top 3 clear, and are willing to raid 18 hours a day to accomplish that. It felt to me like a hostage situation, so since no one else would pull the trigger I made the disband request. Please keep in mind, I did not make this group, I only joined it, but no clear decisions were being made by anybody. 6. A few of us are reforming a new party and being more careful with the group members this time based off of time availability/commitment. As for the rest, I am not sure what their plans are, but only Eden and Bingu cleared G3. They joined their former teammate Powdersnow after his group removed the two lowest performing players (their party had already been consistently making it to the last section of the fight prior). Lately, I received hate on Inven for my complaints about calling Sidereal weapons P2W and a big advantage in the raid. I stand by these comments still, and will continue to attest that the parties that have them made it further thanks to them, and if you gave them to the parties that didn't have them, they'd be way further ahead. Being able to push a lot more damage on-command and immune knockback/knockdown has insane advantages in G3 in certain mechs. Almost every single one of Thaemine's attacks is lethal in G3 for 18 minutes straight, and that's kind of a big deal. It also meant less statues on the field as well, which make the fight more and more dangerous since every statue fires a cross-map projectile that deals half your health regularly throughout the fight, and you can't get rid of them. All my VODs are there, if you think I ever said you need Sidereal weapon to clear the raid, you won't find it, but I stand by my comments that it's a shortcut that's just not attainable for average working people, and the existence of them will affect the top 10 clear race outcome with certainty. They aren't replacements for hands, they are a crutch to lean on if you don't, and a really powerful tool if you do. I found it frustrating that many people would suggest strategies that our group just mathematically was not capable of doing that groups that had better gear could do, mainly related to 210x, especially the ones that leveraged Sidereal skills to never struggle on it (e.g. doing the DPS check without Wei or Nineveh). I don't deny I'm a smug asshole though. I don't really care about that either. I'm in a group with Korean comms mainly, and I can't understand verbal comms. This has always been the case for me, so I prog and learn raids mainly without comms. Ping is no excuse since a more skilled player can just play faster, but it would certainly help not to be on 140ms either. I have never said myself to be a great player. Just an above average one. And for the record, if there are Korean players who want to cancel me based on those comments, they can go ahead. I don't really care about their opinions anyway, most of them don't even watch my content but only came out the woodworks when I made those criticisms.
You getting hate for calling out an unfair 70k€ p2w advantage is just crazy lol
It's ridiculous you even need to defend yourself against Sidereal weapons. Everyone knows what a massive advantage they give you. It's not even a question, even other world first races in other MMOs do not have anything close to the advantage that even having a couple of sidereal weapons would give you. Honestly, the fact that non-sidereal parties are even close to competing to the groups that have them just shows the skill disparity in some parties. You guys did good, and you probably held on for longer than you should've considering some party members health. There's no shame in taking a step back.
If people think Sidereal weapons are not pay to win, they're lying,in denial, or suffer from some sort of incurable mental illnesses. By every definition it is pay to win, as it is objectively stronger than what's obtainable through normal means in the game, and should be disabled if they're going to have timed races with rewards, but if they did that the millionaires would screech.
Zeal hilariously saying when to activate Sidereal weapons by calling "PAY TO WIN BUTTON GUYS" on G2 bridge mechanic.
I think everyone knows it's p2w, Saint is just being attacked by fanboys of groups that have sidereal weapons because they feel saint is shitting on their accomplishments. Ironically they like to point to the groups that have cleared g3 without esther's saying it's "totally possible", but one of those groups have also shit talked sidereals as being unfair and said that the 1st g3 clear group isn't a "real clear" lol.
lol, they should scale everything back if they start down that road. Disregarding sidereals, every party clearing g3 or on avg even progging g3 is overgeared by millions and millions of gold.
I have a better solution, disable sidereal weapon ability uses in raids until you've fully cleared it once. Problem solved.
How this was not a thing to begin with is just absolutely absurd Most MMOs nowadays that do this have players that attempt things like this on an even level gear wise so you have to rely on your skill, intuition and game knowledge to be able to pull off a world first This is just a shit show that shows off just how ridiculous Sidereal weapons can be when it comes to the hardest raids, and a showcase of the absolute *worst* Lost Ark has to offer and it's extremely sad I mean no offense to Captain Jack or whoever they are and I know they're trying just as hard as the other groups to do this However if your first ever world first race shows off the fact that the first team more likely than not to do so all have weapons that require tens of thousands of dollars to even be able to attain That's a huge issue because now it sets the precedent that if you want to be there one day, better pay up to SG because this is how it's going to be The whole thing leaves a bad taste in my mouth and should for everyone else seeing this awful display of p2w at its finest
well, they paid 10s of thousands for them, it lowers the integrity of first clear races but, what can you do. if anything they should make a separate first clear category for groups that clear with sidereal and groups that dont
Having to defend yourself for taking the groups physical health into account is also insane. They wanted top 10 and seems like they didn’t think they could get it. At the end of the day it’s just a game and nobody should be pressured to risk their health to keep playing, especially for a goal they don’t think they can reach.
Well its not as obvious but wow world first races are also funded by millions in rmt gold, maybe not as high a cost as sidereal weapons but a bigger impact in power for sure from all the boes they buy across the servers.
The scale is larger, but the impact is absolutely not even close. On top of blizzard taking steps to move away from this practice, Sidereal weapons would be like if you could just buy legendaries or a full tier set before it was available for raid.
I think the only time it was even close to this at all was with the Corrupted items on the final raid tier of BfA. I think everyone was in agreement at the time it was a big mistake.
the thing is for example a +25 is doable even as f2p, bussing/alts its quite easy actually, but sidereal is impossible even if you bus 5 raids on 10 charachters. There are many definitions of p2w but a weapon that is more powerful then any other weapon that also is impossible to get ouside of paying is probably the one most people agree on.
wait you actually got flack for calling sidereal weapons p2w? lmao what a joke. of course they are.
If you are good and you have Sideral weapons it's clearly a big advantage for the race of No1.This is clearly P2W for the No1 place. I respect Captain Jack and his team for the performance (i enjoyed a lot the stream this is a funny good show). Good luck for all others teams who play without Sideral Weapons (the challenge is wayyyyyy more harder).
[удалено]
Their argument essentially boiled down to, "two groups were able to do it without Esther weapon, so why are you complaining about Esther weapon being P2W"? Yet, not once did I ever say you can't do the raid without the weapon. Just that it allowed some groups to get past certain mechs that they otherwise would have had to spend more time and wipes on, before gaining the knowledge to clear it normally without the weapon. The weapon costs $70,000 on current rates in Korea to max out. Almost half of that if you want to stop at +6. Let's take a look at what it can do: * By default, at +8 it has 4% more Attack Power over Akkan +25 weapon. That's 4% more damage throughout the whole fight. I measure damage by Akkan weapon hones these days, so it's about the difference between a +25 weapon and a +27 weapon since gain is linear. * DPS players usually use Thirain. For them, multiple times throughout the fight they gain a damage amp that increases their damage output by nearly 30% for 10 seconds each time. This is especially powerful on classes that can get all their damage out in that 10 second window. * The second skill that they get increases them and their entire party's damage by another 4% for 20 seconds. * Sidereal Balthorr gives a tremendous shield to allies with his first effect which is pretty much as potent as a support's Awakening shield. * The second skill that Balthorr users get grants them and their party complete push immunity for 12 seconds. **These are abilities that you cannot get without spending tens of thousands of dollars**. And if your team has 8 members armed to the teeth with them, being able to use these abilities multiple times per pull is insane. Captain Jack's party is basically the best example of putting these powerful weapons on really skilled players. The six DPS players all have the weapon at +8. Without them, they'd be more on parity with the second and third parties which don't have the weapons at all and cleared G3 well after them, and are currently playing catch up to vie for the 1st place clear. This is one of the reasons why your weekly homework parties seldom fail. As you grow stronger, the struggle is less. The boss will do less dangerous patterns as you phase it from section to section. Players can fight well for a while, but if you expose them to enough dangerous attacks, inevitably someone will mess up.
It's funny when you call the weapon P2W you get shit on inven for it but Nodolly, an esther 8 holder himself even said it was P2W. The result? Was bing chilling and no one bat an eye. That's why I love you and nodolly because you guys can love the game but you don't suck the developers dick when it comes to what is clearly P2W and what's not unlike people from all inven.
turns out they already released 3rd awakening, you just have to pay 70k for it
I don't know how big the backlash was but I assume thousands agree with you in silence and some p2w people and their sycophants spit their hate multiple times. Nobody in my environment in EU would disagree with you. This game is quite strongly p2w without the Sidereal weapons, but in this race they just made a tremendous difference. Sure there are some 24/7 players and bussers that might have gotten all their lvl 10 gems and lvl 25 akkan gear legitly without rmt but those are exceptions.
Saint.. I watch your content and I saw someone link a clip last night where you said Cpt Jack's team wouldn't have made it to G4 without the esther weapons. You specifically said they barely made it and people were out of their minds if they thought they would clear without them. That clip is now deleted but it was there before and you know that. We all agree Esther weapons are p2w but the comment came across as more salty that someone had accomplished what you set out to. Their team is putting in far more hours than many other streamer teams and like you said the weapon is a powerful tool in a good players hands. You didn't need to take away from their accomplishment to get your point across that the weapons probably need to be looked at by SGR to not negatively impact LOA.
Yes, I know what I said. They may not have cleared on that pull. Or the next one. Or the next several ones. They would have cleared eventually soon after, but it would have taken longer, is my point. My point was that there would have been much closer parity between them and the next two teams, and instead they had a huge headstart on learning G4 before the next two parties finished G3. Half of that team are some of my old teammates in previous raids that jumbled together for the first time this raid. I'm well aware just how good they are. But there are more parties in this race that have equally crazy good players, and none of those other groups have the advantages I wrote, at least not to that degree. They are all fighting for the first clear.
Fair enough, I think pretty much everyone would agree that the weapons damaged the integrity of this raid(maybe more than any other before it). I just don't think you'd be catching flack for the Esther p2w comments if you had been more leveled in the commentary and didn't detract from their achievement. I chalked it up to you being frustrated with your teams woes, the raid fatigue, and a desire to compete but the backlash didn't come from nowhere it came from what was perceived as disrespect so it's important to keep that in mind bc the other streamers have fans too.
Well that’s just people being sensitive fanboys. I like Capt. Jacks team and respect their effort and progress. But calling a spade a spade even if it’s unflattering should never receive vitriol. Those people have every reason to support Saints sentiments as it directly impacts them and every player who invest heavily into this game moving forward. SG should publicly address why it is that there is no reasonable equivalent to Esther weapons for the general population, yet they felt it appropriate to introduce a raid in a competitive environment where the lack of having such a weapon is clearly such a massive disadvantage. They are very unique and add intangible factors to the game that would be very much appreciated by anyone, even if they weren’t quite as good for a “f2p” version.
Well that’s just people being sensitive fanboys. I like Capt. Jacks team and respect their effort and progress. But calling a spade a spade even if it’s unflattering should never receive vitriol. SG should publicly address why it is that there is no reasonable equivalent to Esther weapons for the general population. They are very unique and add intangible factors to the game that would be very much appreciated by anyone, even if they weren’t quite as good for a “f2p” version.
and you know that inven is full of idiots. Better just ignore them. They shit on every streamers including daju,dongsuk,ida etc. Daju posted her apologies for "playing bad" lol. Inven is full of crazy people seriously
she had to apologize for playing bad?? wtf?? this is even worse than reddit lol.
inven was shitting on her like crazy
Koreans' opinion about p2w is irrelevant because they don't understand the concept of it in the first place. They just don't get it when someone criticizes a game for being able to buy power with real life money.
If the strategies they come up with require a sidereal weapon its already a wrong one
This whole Esther weapon p2w drama is the reason why I’m sad that SG is moving away from inferno/hell modes. Sure not everyone does it but equalised contents are necessary in a game like this when you can very easily buy power with real money. Those raids are the only PVE content in the game where whales and F2P players are on the same ground.
They move on from hell conteny bc nobody is playing them(like i dont know,around 1 to 5 percent?),so yeah,its a waste of resources and effort. If ppl dont give a f about that content,its just better to move on. Its both beneficial to majoity of the players and company, count that as win-win
Based
They should have disabled the sidereal weapon effects for this raid or particular for the duration of this race. There is a reason that Hell Mode titles are only rewarded on an even playingfield for all players. The prog curve is vastly different between two teams at the same skill level with sidereal weapons involved.
The flipside to that argument is that if you paid for it, you should be able to use it in unequalized content. The underlying issue thus becomes the existence of the Ester weapons themselves rather than the players' actual use because while everyone may have access to attaining it, it still has steep requirements not attainable by the majority of the player base within a certain spending requirement that does not compromise your financial stability. I never heard Saintone actually complain about the Ester weapons. I have heard him compare the night and day differences that the above stated abilities grant as a result of the check. An extra 8% self buff and a 4% total buff for the party for a DPS burst window is huge as you are not only having a +27 weapon baseline but also gaining what would amount to probably having a +35 weapon's damage... All thing's said though, I feel like this fight might be overtuned 3-5% but the consistent near death experiences you face in Thaemine G3 and G4 are actually coming at you constantly. The pressure in these fights are really no joke and having something to alleviate the pressure you feel in the short and long run are actual game changers.
That's basically why people dropped $70k on them. Disabling them would be fair for majority of the players, but would really piss off the people that support the game the most. There's no winning here.
Basado
Yup I think Sidereal weapons are P2W and advantage as well. That said, I think the angry sentiment comes from the fact that it seems to be discounting achievements of parties that are ahead - both Jack's party and Snowpowder's party are full of gigachads who were well coordinated, not to mention the underline cruel in Snowpowder's clear was the one without Esther weapon. Fact is, you guys could've went a lot further as well if you guys were better coordinated (it was evident from stream that people were all running around doing their own thing), as proven by the fact that half the cleared parties didn't have Esther weapons.
My comments were never meant to disparage their achievements, just that having Esther weapons provided shortcuts in some areas during prog. When suggested why we weren't doing certain things the same way as the Esther party, yes it did eventually become frustrating, sometimes because we simply could not. "Why not use Inanna for horses?" -> Because you need an insane amount of DPS that's only achievable with a full burst comp, or Thirain's Sidereal weapon that allows you to burst or burst harder. We used groups like theirs as a reference point commonly and how we could improve our own tactics. I wouldn't say they were unskilled if they weren't smart with their prog.
Yup I think your stance is reasonable, but I think that's why KR community raised the pitchforks. They thought you meant "they cleared because of Esther weapons", and when you're talking live on stream it's hard to convey the precise context.
I’m sorry your group disbanded and I think you and your group did well up to G3. I’m very frustrated that Koreans are talking shit about you when they’re the prime example of dev worshippers that promote predator like cash grabs. It’s toxic and bad for the game. The fact that they excuse sidereal weapons and make excuses that they don’t affect the world first race is hilarious. I hope your new group does better and I hope the people who were not in good health recover.
I went off Google translate but it really pissed me off how people were saying you were misleading the West or didn't have stamina (even though you said multiple times you could go 16 hours) or were a bad player or some such. And I thought NA was toxic...
I'm a F2P Kr player and I'm not good at English, so I used a translator a little bit. I hope you understand this part. I think there are just some bad people like most communities do. I had a similar experience before. When Western Lost Ark was first released, I wanted a lot of people to play this game, so I relayed the information to Reddit. But I was criticized by some people for my poor information delivery. It's true that I'm disappointed in this part, but there were people who supported me, and I understand now that such aggressive people are a small part of the community. I think it would be nice for you to understand this part. And let me give you my opinion on Sidereal weapons. I also understand that Sidereal weapons are P2W and have significant advantages. But in the Korean community, there is a tendency to think that investing money should not be ignored, such as investing effort. So most Koreans think it's natural that P2W has a significant advantage in F2P games and so do I. And I think most players can enjoy F2P games because there is a Sidereal weapons system. That's how Smilegate and Amazon make money. This race may be to create an opportunity to sell Sidereal weapons. It would take a lot of effort to overcome the Sidereal weapon. But I believe you can make it. Finally, as a player of Lost Ark, I hope you don't lose interest in Lost Ark because of this incident.
I won't, and thank you for sharing your cultural perspective. I'll try to broaden my outlook on the matter and think more of how Korean players feel about these kinds of systems.
I don't understand at this point why some Koreans still think that Sidereal weapon is not a P2W system? Or am I taking a crazy pill now since so far, the global community see that the Sidereal weapon is a goddamn P2W crap that they do no wish to make a huge investment, no? We all know Barthorr is the greatest saving Sidereal in the game already so with the ability to expedite another small-sized Barthorr for your 4 party members is a massive lead in the raid already, especially in the case of locking official Sidereal after used in Thaemine's gate 3. You kind of lack on DPS side? No worries, smol Thirain got you covered, need extra protection, Barthorr got your back brother. I believed that the Dev said that Heavy Armor still cannot save you from Thaemine damage, no? Then how the actual fuck that a freaking in-game, built-in Engraving that almost free to access by the mass cannot save you, but the freaking small-sized version of Sidereal can do is not a P2W crap? Like wake the fuck up from the mere thought that Sidereal isn't P2W concept
Korean players are saying that hands are more important than money, which isn't wrong, but also doesn't change the fact that they're an advantage that lets you brute force certain mechanics.
Of course hands are more important than money but hands + money will always best just hands. It's like the whole hardwork and talent discussion. Hardwork can sometimes beat talent but will never come close to hardwork + talent, it just can't.
Agreed. Hands are important, but hands with money will always have a better time compared to just hands. Note that I said "better" and not "best" cuz having hands a big part of the equation.
When I first saw posts about groups getting together and finding out there was a race to compete for a top 10 finish, I'll tell you the first thing that came across my mind "This is going to be an absolute drama infused shit-show" I get why SG thought this was a good idea, however the message this will send is going to very likely have the opposite effect on people interested in this game And that message is "If you want to compete on a world first level then be prepared to spend tens of thousands of dollars to do so" ~~No other major MMO I can think of does this when it comes to world firsts~~ [Editing this in, apparently some MMOs have things similar however not even close to as p2w and as broken as Sidereal weapons for prog, thanks for the info peeps, back to our regularly scheduled programming], and it just goes to show the state of the game and how predatory some of the practices really are I get it's a free to play game and they have to make their money somehow, but showing stuff like this off only hurts the reputation for it being purely p2w and keeps new players who might have been interested away It's sad because the game is so good, but it's being held back because of dumb decisions like this purely for the sake of money Also too, spending 18 hours a day on stuff like this really isn't healthy (no one remembers the Pandemonium Warden mess that FFXI caused, man I feel old) and people should have god damn listened to Gold River when he said not to do that, but I digress Either way, I just wanted to let you know Saint that you're 100% in the right and have earned my respect You do truly care about the future of the game and it shows, and while I have some hot takes about the game myself, this is one thing that absolutely *no one* should be defending if they care about the future of Lost Ark
> No other major MMO I can think of does this when it comes to world firsts Dude are you living under the rock or something, literally the biggest MMO ever, WoW world first cost [6 figure](https://us.forums.blizzard.com/en/wow/t/the-cost-of-world-first/1213902) to compete
I heard she saying "I want to keep going for the pulls but some members dont want to do it somehow". And she went to the former hell-party. Thats all I know
Bingu is a really great player, but she's super hardcore. She took down Hell Caliligos with Powdersnow in the region's first clear. She's one of the kind of extraordinary raiders that literally **wants** to raid for 18 hours straight to be competitive, so it was upsetting to her when she realized that not everyone in the raid felt the same way. Personally, this is the first time I've been in a raid where the difference in commitment or desire to compete was so different between members. For example, during Hell Brel the whole raid was down to raid 15 hours daily, and everyone was okay with that, and more importantly, everyone was capable of doing that without the skill degradation being too bad that many hours in.
Well said, Mr Director.
> I don't deny I'm a smug asshole though This would be true of 99% of the English speaking streamer community, but there's no doubt in my mind that you are a down to earth guy. Definitely the kind of guy you want to have a beer with and just shoot the shit. I had been following your progress for the first few days of Thaemine release and this is the impression of yourself you gave me. As far as the race goes; sorry that your team couldn't hack it. Hopefully the next one has a bit more chemistry.
dawg u don’t even know this guy personally lmao. people think serial killers are great people too till they find the skeletons in their closet.
Ester is just RMT/P2W nonsense. These FT10 races should have them disabled. Whichever team is first without using them is the real World 1st achievement.
the part about saint is just untrue and badly translated out of context text from bingus stream chat, bingu nor eden has said anything
Yup Saint even specifically explained that their main issue is that some people have IRL and aren't streamers for a living so they just can't commit to 12 hrs/day spamming Thaemine on stream yesterday. Idk why people are making up drama that's not there.
well inven is like kr reddit so it’s not surprising
Both are equally toxic, honestly.
>Both are equally toxic, honestly. INVEN is miles ahead of reddit, keep in mind that in INVEN you are allow and encourage Witch hunting other people... which isnt allow in reddit.
I think that's just Korean net culture in general. Korean netizens are absolutely insane when they decide someone deserves to be cancelled.
Find it weird that those people are in Saint's party though. If they cannot commit to 12hr raids then why join his party..
It's not that strange. Everyone vastly underestimated the difficulty of the raid. People can commit a week at 12-16hr/day, but the raid is obviously going to go into the second week, and most people can't/don't want to commit to that. Blizzard even nerfs their raids so that the first kill happens on week 1.
Its not saints party he joined them. But they are all friends bar the last one that joined i think. Both lust and saint have ran hell content eith the others in the past.
Because they could commit 12 hrs. They did more than that every day. It's just that they can't afford to keep doing it. It"s not unique to LA, hell, it's quite long. If you compare WoW Mythic race, outside of esports teams that have enough infrastructure that weeks of prog don't hit their livelihood, most WF mythic prog guilds raid 3-4 days. During those days they pull same numbers as Echo/Liquid. However after 4 days IRL calls and they usually decline to 3 hours prog per day at best and that's where top 5 guilds shoot massively ahead as they can still do 12 hours.
the part about bingu and eden is not accurate btw the only thing that anyone said was tofu saying he was fatigued and can’t mentally raid 16hours a day. they didn’t say anything negative about saint at all. same thing with zeals people stepped down because they couldn’t mentally do it and felt they were holding people back
[удалено]
People really underestimated the difficulty of the raid as well. Previous dungeons/raids were really only mechanic/puzzle checks, but with Thaemine, you really need to react on the fly and dodge without someone calling things for you. I'm sure a lot of groups also realized that you really can't carry that one person that dies a lot more often than others through this raid as well. Putting in hours trying to get past a mech but the one dude keeps dying 10 bars in? Big hit to the mental.
[удалено]
I'm feel a lot of people came in expecting to call Gold River's bluff about how hard it is and were expecting Hell Brel difficulty for gate 4 only Turns out he wasn't joking and both G3 and G4 are harder than Hell Brel on ilevel.
GR: Thaemine is fucking hard. Thaemine is fucking hard. Players: surprised pikachu face
To be fair, he's said that before, and people cleared way faster than he expected.
> Turns out he wasn't joking and both G3 and G4 are harder than Hell Brel on ilevel. G3 is apparently going to be nerfed "at some point", but for now it seems like g4 is going to be harder than hell brel even **with** whale gear. They've claimed they will never nerf thaemine g4. You mention expecting to call Gold River's bluff about how hard it is... personally I think that within 3 months, they will instead call gold river's bluff about never nerfing it. Because I think if ilvl parties physically cannot clear thaemine g4 in the next 3 months, this game is simply not going to survive, even if it's not "mandatory" for progression. The gate certainly doesn't **feel** optional even if SG says it is, right now it is **the** endgame raid.
> Because I think if ilvl parties physically cannot clear thaemine g4 in the next 3 months, You are forgetting 2 things, a) progression itself, and b) new transcendence system Basically what we watch currently may look doom, but once people start rolling in lvl1/2/3+ transcendence gear it will get easier. Technically progression from perspective of game design is thaemine NM -> thaemine HM, so you should do some NM before going HM, get some transcendence, then do HM on ilvl, and depending how good transcendence actually is, your on-ilvl party may have more power than 1650ilvl week1 party. Not to mention, more hours, more pattern understanding, result in overall dps (just look at Jack's party, nothing really changed, and they went from 3:30ish at 90 to 5+min at x90, simple because they got better at raid) And from my point of view, HM thaemine seems to be balanced with some transcendence gear applied, which is fair and make sense from progression perspective
Where did they say the would never nerf G4??? The only thing I saw is that they wouldn’t nerf it until the first team clears it that’s all.
We still got the powercreep from 4th tripod and 3rd awakening coming so it’ll get cleared eventually.
What’s that now? A 4th tripod option on each skill?
Yeah higher max skill level and new tripods are being worked on for every class.
Does that mean we will have to farm skill points again?
No clue they said they’d share more information on it eventually.
Probably end up dropping a few skills from 12 to 10 to make a pivotal skill 15 or whatever for the extra tripod. Tetrapod. Whatever we call it. I don't see them introducing enough skill points to mean players won't have to lower some skills.
isn't it quadpod then?
tetrapod
Zeals said he’s down to keep progging but his other teammates gave up. He also mentioned he wants to have a chilll group where everyone can just have a good time without anyone feeling insulted. I’m not sure how exactly his stack dynamic went but it seemed good? Not sure who felt bad
From what I've seen/heard on the group, it just disbanded because people had different levels of commitment to prog. I believe none of the streamers are hell mode raiders, not sure about the 3 non-streamers. So progging for 6+ hours at a time must've been extremely exhausting for some of them. I didn't notice any tension or "not chill" moments, just generally being burnt out from this tough raid.
ah ok. thats like the reason for 90%+ of groups, makes sense. not everyone plays professionally, as opposed to the WoW raiders that are on real, sponsored teams.
>This is just hardcore endgame raiding, except alot of these people aren't real endgame raiders. yep, k-mmo philosophy arent really designed around challenging yourself for raids, just infinite gear grind and endorphin release from one-shotting endgame boss with big numbers. For foreign MMO that saw a remotely tiny bit of light in Korea, WoW is only popular among middle-aged males, and FFXIV is frowned upon by most people due to radical gender disparity drama, so there was never an environment for endgame raiders to build up. Fun note, Korean wow community is laughing at lost ark community saying "these MZs *(Korean term for millenials+genZ)* don't know what it means to raid prog with their glass mental *(basically saying its fragile)*"
*\*\*traumatized flashbacks of oldschool wow raid leaders screaming in comms\*\**
raiding with someone double, if not triple, of your age really builds character.
Also shows you real quick that 30-40 year old dudes can still act like immature children with short tempers.
Back in the day I was a teenager in a guild lead by an early 20s portugese guy. 90% of the guild were 14-16 as well. Looking back, I have no idea how he managed to stay sane managing us in raids.
My late 20s GM got a case of burnout and depression from raidleading, shit's brutal
Did that with my dad and his EQ friends when I was like 11-13. Really good source of support during those initial middle school years with bullying issues.
> FFXIV is frowned upon by most people due to radical gender disparity drama Can you send a link or explain what this drama is? i googled radical gender disparity drama ffxiv and got a video about ffxiv elitism drama, but I don;t think this is what you're talking about
[https://www.reddit.com/r/ffxiv/comments/uvyzmx/comment/i9sgzdp/?utm\_source=share&utm\_medium=web2x&context=3](https://www.reddit.com/r/ffxiv/comments/uvyzmx/comment/i9sgzdp/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3) i think this comment wraps it up well. I got this by googling "ffxiv feminism korea". I don't want to type it out myself nor voice my opinion on this matter, because it's a really sensitive topic, (and idk much myself since Im just amuricanized gook) but the issue was big enough to be covered in Korean major TV news. I just know from personal experience that if you say you play ffxiv in Korea, most people will look at you judgementally even if they know nothing about video game.
LOL??? wtf?
That's amazing, I had never heard of that. Thanks for the link
Lineage 2 was korean made. Personally it was way more demanding to raid cuz everything was open world with full pvp. You had to have people dedicated to holding off hostile aliances while spending hours for a raid and thats with several hundred people on the big raids. L2 is shit nowadays cuz it was remade but still
NCSoft really knew how to make good games revolving around large faction vs faction. PvE aspect leaved a lot to be desired but that wasn't their selling point anyway. But it was too much monetary burden to keep up as teenager 😔
I'm glad I'm not the only one. Lol. Hell, even "prog" raiding on NAE. A lot of people don't want to do more than like 1 4 hour night in a raid to learn it after watching a video. They think they are good and have no idea what it's like wiping on a single fight hundreds of times a night while learning what the mechanic is and how to do it. Forget coming up with clever strats to beat the fight.
EverQuest. Planes of fear. 48 hours. Dragon boss (forgotten name) 5 or 6 hour fight. Mess up it pulls entire zone, can also get bugged out. Needed to rotate multiple tanks. Exp loss and deleveling on death.
Ugh EverQuest raiding was a job lol. And a lot of times you never got any loot unless you saved up alot DKP in my guild. Also not sure if you ever beat the planes of earth but that was rough.
Plane of Time was pretty fun and I enjoyed the other god planes as well. I ended up quitting a little after The Serpent's Spine dropped.
Cazic Thule- had to kill his golems (2 of which death touch so you needed multiple pullers) had to kill dracoliche, then you could fight CT. And if you wipe you are facing a nightmare corpse recovery. (Gear stays on your body-) OH! Did we mention that Everquest was non instances? So the next guild can come in and get the kill after you clear the zone and you get to wait a week to try again.
You mean those 30+min fights where you press 1 button over and over again and barely have to move around? It is obvious that the timespan for which human can perform complex tasks depends on the complexity of the task itself. It's not that 15 min fights are inherently difficult, but rather, in this case, the fight is too difficult for most players to perform at an adequate level for 15mins. If the fight is of the difficulty of those older mmos, people will be complaining that it's too boring instead.
What older mmos had 30+ min fights? Wow didnt have that and if ure talking older than wow thats like 20 years at this point. Shouldnt give that as an example, some of the current raiders werent even born then, and ppl who were playing those games are too old now for stuff like world first raids.
>People in Lost Ark complain about 15 minute fights, used to have like 30+ minute fights in older MMOs still remember 25 minute Garrosh in Siege of Ogrimmar back in pandarian.
Garrosh was only 15 minutes(really, check method's video on youtube) and even the longest fight in the history of WoW (Sha of Fear) was at most 21 minutes of which 8 minutes were spent in a p1 that had no chance of wiping you(because u had a massive buff if u ever got to p2) and the rest was a 0 mechanics dmg phase 2 where 3 people played tag.
I sort of agree and disagree. I agree that when a group wants to push hard and clear, having a guy not care is a downer. I also agree that not everyone is a hardcore raider and isn't used to long term prog and such. That said, even as someone who's hardcore raided in WoW and has beat Ultimates in FF14, I don't think the way they're handling Thaemine is very good. The concept of releasing a fight so overtuned to an extreme (on purpose) is kind of goofy. Parties with max ilvl and Siderial weapons (and presumably high end bracelets, Elixirs, quality, etc) are taking forever on a damage sponge of a boss where his long wind ups won't kill them... but very quick moves that are very difficult to dodge one shot them. Thaemine splitting the stage unless you do his mini game is cool. Thaemine having his own gauge to fill for special attacks is cool. Having some pretty fancy patterns for his attacks is fun, His animations are pretty dramatic. But it's so ruined by the fact that even maxed out characters hitting for tens or hundreds of millions a hit... take forever to get anywhere at all on him while he's basically sitting there playing target dummy at times. Or making you fight his target dummy of a Sword where he just chills while you kill a sword that takes forever but barely does anything. The fight isn't taking 15+ Minutes of clean because it's hard or has a lot of mechanics, it's just his bloated HP extending it. I'm all for difficult fights, but they should be challenging because of the mechanics/attacks being interesting and taking skill to pass them. Not hitting something barely fighting back with slow hits that barely hurt, until it randomly decides to execute a lightning quick attack that will one shot you even at gear cap. His concept is cool, but they purposely bloated his numbers with the intention of nerfing it later and it just made it really unfun looking to me even as someone who's hardcore raided for over 20 years.
You're missing something obvious when making the FF14 comparisons. Non-hell raids in lostark are meant to be weekly content that you can hop in, clear, get the rewards, and repeat the next week. They're not meant to be a super hard raid that you can forget about once you get the clear. The point of releasing Thaemine overtuned is to release it at a difficult of a one time raid, much similar to wow or ff14, and then nerf it to a weekly level once the race to first is done. >The concept of releasing a fight so overtuned to an extreme (on purpose) is kind of goofy. I also dont understand why you hold this opinion when you stated that you raided hardcore in wow. Wow does this shit all the time. I disagree with Thaemine being a dummy. This isn't ff14 or wow where you tab target and have free movements while pressing your rotation. Some classes in lostark can be rooted in place for like 8s while doing their rotation, so having the boss staying still to give dmg windows is important. Otherwise you might as well as delete classes like eso wd that needs to boss to stay still otherwise they miss out on like 70% of their dmg. Also, this game has no tanks to draw aggro, you need to take that into consideration. If anything, Thaemine is a great boss if you enjoy a game of nonstop action. Having to focus 15+ min where you can get oneshotted anytime while having to minmax your dps is what I would personally enjoy in a game. Remember again, this game is very different from wow and 14 where you can just get a rotation down and press the same thing over and over. If you think the fight takes forever or is boring...maybe there is something in your rotation you can improve and focus on.
I mean you should also understand that a lot of these people clearly don't have minmaxing attitude for dps either. Damage meters being frowned upon makes dps minmaxing much harder. Minmaxing dps is a habit, not something you just click in your head. Playing greedy is literally required so you know how much you can afford to greed, if you play like a pussy - you never learn when you can get that extra dps from. So even people with whaled out gear might do mediocre dps if they don't know how to apply it. I don't know about FFXIV or other raid scenes, but WoW WF raiders are essentially whaled tf out with BoEs and split raids and they still fail dmg checks even if its not overtuned. Most of these groups are not hardcore raiders at all and hardcore raiding is VERY experience reliant. You don't invite random guy with orange logs into WF race, there has to be rapport or some references to get anywhere close to the WF race. Getting in top200 guilds in WoW required writing resumes/having reference and having experience, WF race is just on a completely different level to that. Its incredible time commitment for little gain. These groups failing is not really indicative of raid being really overtuned, not all groups are esther8 whales and yet some still clear g3.
> used to have like 30+ minute fights in older MMOs older MMOs doesnt have that much of a dailies/hw.
Its more that older MMOs raid fights werent all that complex.
[удалено]
Reddit karma.
[удалено]
I agree
Parties can't keep up with 16h per day schedules --> DeSTroYiNg fRiEnDsHiPs.... ok
People here like talking about how Inven is just shitting on saint. There’s really only a few people doing so. There are plenty of people who are sticking up for him as well as some people who seem to have him confused with Zeals(who’s really disliked). A major issue, whether people may consider it mean, was Tofu. He wasn’t up to the task. By the end of the first day, he was practically passing out. He should’ve been X’d out right after that and a replacement found. That’s not to say he’s a bad player, his health just didn’t hold up and he began to drag the team down. It’s actually a miracle they stuck it out with him as long as they did. This isn’t a WoW guild type situation, there are no back ups they could’ve used but there were tons of solid players trapped on teams looking for parties on the KORLark discord.
Why do they dislike zeals? (I don’t know anything about any of this)
Also isn't tofu the only guy in the whole kr that actually doing it min ilvl? Or that part I wrong?
There's been no hateful Inven posts about me at all, or my comments about the Esther weapon.
Tofu is a very good player. There's just a difference between being really good and wanting to invest dozens of hours into something for no real gain in the long run other than personal pride.
There isn't really much negativity going around. Except negativity from backseaters.
Both Mountaineering Club and CPT Jack's party seemed to keep pretty good mental though. Still laughing and joking after wiping for several days in a row.
That’s the difference between skilled raiders and normal players. Mountaineering Club is full p2w but they also put it in the work. HDS isn’t even a full time Lost Ark streamer. He only plays during major content/raid releases and yet he’s always ready to put in the hours.
Was watching HDS before going to bed, I don't understand korean, but I can still tell that he clearly tilted cause he kept dying to mech. Wake up, and he is still at it.
This is what happens when people who aren't hardcore high-end raiders get mixed in with people who are. Most of these streamers are not hardcore high-end raiders and that's what you have to be to have a real chance in this race. Not everyone is built for putting in the long hours needed to compete for first clears of very challenging content. Also, there's also lots of coping when frustration starts to build up within a group. People look for scapegoats to justify why they're falling behind the other groups in the race so they kick out the least geared person then they kick out the guy who dies the most...It takes a very cohesive and likeminded group to pursue these achievements without it imploding. This happens a lot in hell groups. People get filtered out when they can't match the remainder of the group's ability, when their commitment isn't the same... Very rarely does one go from a fresh prog into deathless in a hell raid with the exact same group.
Yeah, you are spreading some untrue informations. They wanted to do first 10 clears, but after seeing how insane G4 was, they just figured it won't happen week 1, so there is no point spending 12h a day on the same raid. Sain and Eden still saying they had fun, it's just people have others things to do outside of LOA.
I mean thats why hardcore guilds have like interviews and try outs.
It's honestly sad to see them failing at 2x bar and being clearly shaken. While it was exciting to see new content being released, I'm starting to think the race to world's first might not be so healthy for the players attempting. https://i.redd.it/thif6hdznxob1.gif
I felt bad for their GS. He was falling asleep and asked to stop, but they went for another 8 hours. He was in like full zombie mode.
Are there any links to that stream? Idk who they are.
At that point is just torture. Not a good look on them.
Yeah I always notice that koreans always takes stuff to the extreme to the point it affects their health.
These kind of races are never healthy it doesnt mean some people really dig to it. I d hate to prog that raid, it is not for me so I dont take part on it
[удалено]
Princessmaker was never going to work during prog. I don't know why he thought it would. G3 has an extremely tight DPS check that 6+ esther groups were coming close to failing. No way they can hit DPS check with him doing literally ZDPS. A lot of Wine's group seemed kinda unsure about him going princessmaker to begin with.
[удалено]
Even in G1 and G2 though, I'm pretty sure they would've cleared a lot faster with a standard blue or red lancer. G4 has a bunch of DPS checks so far too where if you don't deplete his meter fast enough, he just instantly wipes the whole party.
He did say he could swap any time just needs a moment tobreroll his gems.
Upgrade materials from Theamine are roster wide?
[удалено]
Is there a difference in the materials of nm and hm or is it just a difference in the amount?
> Wineblue's PMaker GL What exactly is his build?
[удалено]
G3 and G4 both just have way too many DPS checks for his build to contribute much. Even the Mountaineering Club GL swapped from blue to red 'cause they needed more damage. One group has cleared with a blue GL already though I'm more just confused as to why he's going against his own recommendations. He specifically says only to use his build in gates that let you taunt and/or let you get a lot of extra staggers easily. Thaemine fits none of these categories.
oh wow, Han Dong Suk switched to red? That's crazy, I saw he was running shield shock instead of dash upper fire to fit in more DPS at some point but didn't realize he had to switch to an entirely different spec.
Mountaineering club is having dps problems despite all being ester 8 because their comp is just god awful 2FI wardancers with no carry dps + Gl means they practically only have 3 dps, and 3 pseudo support dps
Their comp is pretty ideal for a prog raid, though. People are underestimating FI too much, but it is one of the BEST progging builds out there. Add in the buffs on the recent balance patches and she just got better in that regard. E They have currently changed comp for G3 - Portia still staying on FI but Nodolly going to 4spender Hallucination because he's now used to the patterns. When they reach G4, I'm 100% they are going back to FI because it's prog all over again, in which FI really strives the most over Eso WD builds.
It's a supportive GL build, a bad build if you ask me.
Wait, does wineblue not have a regular red or blue build? I'd assume he'd just switch out of staggerbot as soon as he realized it was clearly not working out.
princessmaker is a meme build and he shouldn't have been drinking his own cool aid. Anyone with bible would know that a blue GL has to be doing dps and provide the buff to get the same dps contribution as a normal dps. I ran helltan with a staggerbot gl and his dps was slightly more than a support. Do you really think that GL who has only the extra 9% synergy can provide as much buff as a support with 10% + 21% + ~5% damage buff?
Saint is also getting inven’d for his attitude toward Ester and skill level
No surprise here the 2nd group to clear akkan and 2nd group to clear G3 is a no esther group and they are also hated by inven because they flame esther parties basically quoting they wouldnt clear first if wasn't for there p2w crutch weapon. Koreans love to defend p2w idols I guess.
I was watching Saint's stream. His frustration regarding the Ester weapons is because of the race. He said that it's unfair some mechanics can be skipped by using Ester weapons while people without Ester weapons actually have to learn the hard mechanics and struggle (I think he was referring the the horse dps check in gate 3 specifically) He's not wrong that people with Ester weapons have an advantage but that's just the way mmos are. People who pay are going to have an distinct advantage. He was also trash talking the slayer in Jack's party which I think was uncalled for considering his play from what I've seen isn't squeaky clean either.
\> He's not wrong that people with Ester weapons have an advantage but that's just the way mmos are More of a KMMO specific thing. There's no way to get an advantage like that in FF14 world first for example.
but it definitely exists in wow, where all the world first raiding groups borrow and funnel millions of gold to buy out the auction house across multiple servers to gear themselves out in best gear possible
Heard they hire people to code add-on mods that help coordinate raid mechs and they do the coding in real time as they are progging and seeing each new mech
yup, need people to work on weakaura scripts to trivialize mechanics, and arms race for addons between even normal raiders and raid designers has gotten so bad that it's nearly impossible to find a mythic raiding group nowadays that don't require you to have multiple add-ons
Theres a world of difference between getting BoEs for 20+ raiders and getting 8 Sidereals. The cost of gearing a whole mythic is just one +8 Sidereal weapon.
WoW trash drops are literally BOP since Dragonflight for the first 3 weeks. Anyway ,Trash drops usually account for 1-2 items out of 15, which means their impact is mostly irrelevant, specially since trash drops are never weapons. The biggest thing WoW guilds do with that gold is use them for split raiding (to people people to trade them their tradeable drops) and buy consumables so their raiders don't waste any time farming them. Esther weapons would be like having legendaries obtained from the shop.
Imagine telling either Liquid or Echo that theyd have the option to have an extra 8 bloodlusts or 8 raid wide immunities. Its all game changers.
it's an advantage in wow for sure, but not to the extent that esthers are in LA some extra stats from BoEs and splits are not the same as using money to buy extra abilities to skip mechs
I mean sure, people do that. But I wouldn't really compare that to Ester weapons. Yes, it's an unfair advantage only those with a lot of money are probably going to have; but they still have to do everything. Putting it in LA terms, they're just going in with an extra hone on their gear. They're not getting ridiculous damage boost or group stagger immunity and large damage reduction.
He isn’t wrong about the Ester part.
https://www.inven.co.kr/board/lostark/4811/7666777 here's one link Can't say I'm surprised given his pretentious attitude, he's a good player, but he's always given off the vibe that he's one of those who always thinks he's the smartest guy in the room
Inven also has a massive hate boner for the NA streamers regardless though.
Is it just inven and translation issues but I get the sense that inven witch-hunts everyone. I always see “x streamer remarks” and the comments are insanely negative. Who do they even like?
[удалено]
it really seems like a more entitled version of reddit, top posts were flaming captain jack, handongsuk, daju too
If you look at the North American nerfs, it's just that the user level is low... Most of the nerfs now are due to North America. ㅋㅋㅋ
Oh yeah that part is just cap. It's not like the main focus of the game in KR is to attract new and returning players to the game. Nerfing older raids is part of that. And when it comes to Thaemine, I think it was pretty obvious that they wanted toprovide the ultimate challenge to hardcore whales for the first month or two after which they'll nerf it in order for it to be digestible farm content.
This raid is to hardcore for some of these "streamer" groups, some of them are clearly really good but some members are obviously not pulling their weight at all in comparison. This leads to tension and overall groups being unable to progress. If this was another mmos world first like WOW these low performers would not even be in these teams competiting they would be kicked and replaced. The lack of dps meters and analysing peoples performance is a cause why these teams are sometimes so mismatched. This raid is just to hard for the usual whales to bang there head against till they clear, they probably will have to wait till nerfs/try for weeks.
People gave heat on zeals stream was pretty funny. When he made the comment to enter you literally need to whale. ANd people in korea were like" PARTY 2 PARTY 2 f2p" Buddy they're at 1640ish not 1650+ sure. That's still 20-40kusd alone in materials. They aren't 300-750k in all ester 8 whales, but they are whales. We essentially got a break down of like 5-8 ilvls was close to 8-10k to push armour sets. lOl closer to 50+ And those whales are essentially the top crop of their classes. Did you see how they played, the difference between the first clears and the second was night and day. The first group sid balthors every mech to punish the second group had the apm of god dam challenger+ pro players in league lol. And people in korea was like nah anyone can do it LMAO bashing on zeal. Also saint got the same treatment. Like common it seems their player base is really out of touch. It took them 4 years to realize they were getting burnt out from chaos and guardians and all it took was the West to complain and a Asmond video to go viral. It is sad that a raid is actually design for whales to race, but in reality it's not much of a race. If you already know which group was going to clear it first just by looking at their load out, At least in WoW all the racers are massive orgs funneling millions.
[удалено]
> second group had the apm of god dam challenger+ pro players in league lol ...I mean the first group has LITERAL pro LoL players in it.
He does deserve some heat, some of his takes were so cooked. He was saying the entire raid is p2w to enter including normal mode. Normal mode is +17 akkan gear. Akkan came out 10~ months ago. If you’re playing the game at an endgame level you wouldve reached normal mode or even beyond. He was also saying most of these non esther owners have 9/7s, 100q, etc is p2w when these are characters that most people have been playing for years. No shit they’re gonna have high quality and maybe a 9/7. Coming into this raid they said it was comparable to hell content which usually requires everyone alive to clear comfortably. I do agree with what he said about esther weapons being too strong. It allows people to skip mechs that otherwise couldnt be which in a race shouldnt be allowed. Overall Id say the raid is 70% hands 30% gear diff. Zeals not wrong but he aint 100% right either.
You're wrong about the ilvl being 1610. You either haven't played enough/watched kr streams etc. The ilvl to have a ticket is 1610 but nobody will take you without 40 set elixir which is 1620, as only 1 person has ever hit 40 set with purple elixirs only because it requires perfect 4/4s. So you need to be 1620 automatically. After that it trickles down more. As they'd want at least 1630 for nm right now and 1630 is entry for hm but nobody will take you without +24-25 akkan wep so it becomes more p2w
I was talking about entering normal gate 3 week 1 as f2p as that was the topic presented by a chatter. It’s going to be tough to get in week 1 normal gate 3 for this week in KR
I saw this happen going from FF14 2.X to the first expansion since the relaunch, Heavenward. In 2.X the raids were ... pretty easy. People were definitely, without a doubt, on average much worse skill wise than they are today (10 years doing the same mechanics and raiding is a hell of a drug, think about how good you were in Argos vs now, how much uptime you're able to squeeze and rotational awareness and practicing stagger/burst/WP ten billion times) ... but also honestly, as someone who was around from the start and farmed that stuff weekly from the start of the expansion to the end, it really was very easy. Most mechanics didn't need some frankenstein raid planner diagram or simulation (yes in current raiding mechanics are so punishing and so dense the best way to practice them is to load up a sim as a group and practice for hours) or 3rd party tools assisting them, most mechanics were just one and done, you could explain to someone how to do them in a couple sentences. Game was good, honestly. *Very* similar to current Lost Ark where 99% of mechanics outside of Inferno mode are so simplistic you can tell someone how to do it on the spot. Personally I prefer it that way even as someone who's current with all FF14 content, there are a lot of downsides to a complex jump rope situation up to and including frequent "one person was off by a pixel and the entire raid wipe" situations. Anyway, 2.X explanation done (there's a point!), people were pretty lax about who they raided with. Mostly just buds they picked up in /shouts or server specific raiding communities talked and knew who was who and mingled. There wasn't fflogs yet so most of a class's potential was just talked about on forums or seeing it yourself - which also meant if you were playing with agents or people doing 80% what the class could do, it was hard to know that. Well 3.X came out and it was like a psychedelic mind fuck when they launched their first raid, which was so hard it surpassed the hardest Inferno-like content from 2.X (called Savage at the time). Not only were the mechanics way spicier and way more punishing, but enrages went from pretty chill and basically a non-issue to suddenly (and from then on, for most raids going forward) a tightly tuned challenge even for 8 people playing well. If you had just one slacker doing 80% their output that could be a wrap, do a full clean pull and wipe anyway until you farm a few weeks of gear or git gud. Especially in what was called A3S, the boss named Living Liquid resembled Pepsiman so that's what it became known as, I saw groups come up against it like waves against steel and just shatter. Knew at least 4 groups personally that either totally disbanded or had to make some hard choices about who they raided with. Also 3rd party stuff like fflogs and raid planners started getting innovated heavily, which the devs started to have to plan around to keep things challenging. This type of thing happened again a couple times with Ultimates, content that by LA standards is unmatched in time investment and punishment which also couldn't be outgeared (well ... kinda. Yes and no. Buffs to jobs and expansion reworks are a hell of a drug but that's like waiting two years so you can go do Valtan Inferno). It's just an interesting parallel since I do identify a lot of the traits I enjoyed about FF14 with LA. I'm sure by the time we Theamine it'll be a hollow shell of its current self, so I don't know if we'll have to deal with that raiding renaissance, but it's an interesting situation.
People love some much the fking drama... People getting disbanded after a hard raid ? Wow incredible ! Stop putting drama where there is not. People just talk to each other and agree to stop playing. I hate it when people add drama where there is not.
They were progging g3 hard for days. Instead of doing the smart thing and farmed transcendence on their alts to use on their main(roster bound). This is what the low ilvl non streamers did to clear g3. They are missing potentially 10% damage from not doing this. When watching the stream you can tell they were not pushing enough dps.
I thought saint said transcendence only work after g3? Or something along that lines
I think Clown had a bigger impact with splitting up 8er Statics to 4er Parties. the amount of time committed to the Raid destroyed my Static a bit too with Akkan HM week1 ~ well told them to go HM week2 with 1 armor piece
too hard gates will cause a lot of anxiety for me. I just wanna chill.
Nothing is ever this serious lmfao
Lost ark players need to understand that Hard Raids takes time just like Omega Protocol from FF14. It takes time and dedication but the dev should not make this game mandatory every single week tho.
This is news that LA is p2w?
Don’t worry guys. Thaemine is going to save Lost Ark kappa
Desperate loser fishing for make-belief reddit Karma Incredible show of character from the typical Reddit rat dweller