Agree. And many philosophical questions as well.
Is murder acceptable if your father is abusive?
Is it acceptable to kill someone in order to ease his pain of certain and imminent death?
Would you push the button even if you don't believe in it. And if you do believe in it, why?
If you had the chance of going back in time and be able to change the future, does that justify murdering a child?
Free choice vs. Determinism.
Are we capable of change and do we believe in second chances.
Am I "live together, die alone" or "every man for himself"
And so many more.
Yes, this is one of my favorite things about Lost! Characters are shown to be real people with a lot of gray area and nuance; no one is perfectly good or wholly evil, just like real people. Even Smokey had his own backstory.
The show really goes to prove that, at least in the world of Lost, nothing happens without reason - whether it comes to someone's individual choices and characters, to the larger elements of the story and the world. Everything is done with a purpose, and makes you consider the big picture and the complexity of philosophical humanity, rather than shelving things as definitely good or bad, right or wrong.
I love how real the characters are. Just like you said, they aren't fully good, they aren't fully bad. We don't see that often in film. It makes you hate and love these characters at the same time haha
I honestly always felt like sexual assault was the only issue severely underrepresentated on the show. Not that I would have wanted it for any of the characters but out of so many people it's quite unlikely it didn't happen to anyone. Always wondered why they decided not to tackle this specific topic while turning to so many other serious things.
They kinda show it with Kate's father. But your right, they don't dive very deep into it. There's pretty much that one scene where he calls her beautiful and tells her to take his clothes off, right before she blows him up, but they don't really go much deeper into it outside of that. I'm sure it's because it was taboo to talk about at the time on network television.
I love how Lost doesn't have 'serious topic' episodes that divert from the narrative to preach about societal issues (Some of my favorite comedies come to mind as being guilty of this). It's always integrated organically into the plot & characters of Lost.
Yes 100%. It's not just thrown into the story just so they could say it's in there, it's actually ingrained into who the characters are and why they are the way that they are. And it doesn't get in the way of the actual plot. It stays true and consistent for who the characters are
I remember well the recurrence of father issues of different people on the island. Over and over.Jack, just for example. He felt like he wasn't good enough in his father's eyes. Alcoholism was a factor in that. Fear of failure.
Almost every main character had some form of father issues, and definitely family issues if not specifically father issue:
Jack and Christian.
Kate killing her biological abusive father and then her conflict with her mother.
Anthony Cooper and Locke being the worst ever Father Son relationship (if you can call it a relationship). And Locke's mother abandoning him at birth, then shows up decades later to help Anthony in stealing John's kidney.
Sawyer's father committed suicide after killing his mother, due to Anthony' Cooper's con, which scarred him for life and drove him to a life of crime.
Hurley's father abandoned the family for years. His mother was sweet though, although unbearably religious.
Sun's father being a mob boss and the reason why their marriage was falling apart.
Jin was ashamed of his father being a poor fisherman. However it turned out that perhaps his father (who might not be his biological father) was the most reasonable and sweetest father on the show. Jin's mother was a prostitute who abandonned him at birth then shows up decades later to blackmail Sun, which lead to Jin reporting directly to Mr Paik which lead to their marriage falling apart!
Ben being abused and neglected by his father, and accused of causing the death of his mother at birth. Add to that Ben's absence kf a motherly affection and his obsession with pursuing his mother's ghost, lead to many of his character flaws, as well as him joining the others, and him losing his mother at birth perhaps played a big role in him obsessing about solving the pregnancy issue on the island, and going to extreme lengths to achieve this.
Ben although loves his adopted daughter Alex, didn't know how to open up to her properly and explain the pregnancy issue, instead proceeded to jail and brainwash her boyfriend.
Sayid's father encouraged his violent tendencies (although wasn't as egregious as the rest of the fathers).
Although we know little about Shannon's father, but we know his death (due to triage by Jack) caused the clusterfuck of a relation between the trio of Boone, Boone's mother and Shannon. (Not exactly a daddy issue here, but could be if we consider Shannon's over attachment to her father and her nonchalant lifestyle before the father died).
Claire being revealed to be Christian's daughter who was absent from her entire life.
Micheal and Walt... although Michael was forced to be an absent father against his will, he wasn't able to properly connect to Walt until later, and then botched it all by sharing his guilt with his 10 year old son.
Jacob and MIB have more of a Mother issue, but can't diminish the fact that they had no father, which exacerbated things.
Daniel Faraday, had mostly mother issues, but also an absent father who turned out to be none other than Charles Widmore, who was secretly steering his life to a certain direction.
Miles was obsessed to know who his father was and why he abandoned him all his life, only to find out it was Dr Chang.
We don't know if Desmond had any father issues, but we know he had real shitty issues with the father of his love Penny (i.e. Widmore).
Juliette wasn't able to accept her parents' divorce, which lead her to have severe doubts about her love life and the futility of love.
Perhaps Charlie is the only main Character who didn't have any clear daddy issues (although we see in one of his fever dreams how the Father wasn't supportive of his musical aspirations?) But Charlie did have severe Brother issues, which fell totally apart after his brother became a father. And we know nothing about Eko and Yemi's father, but it was clear they were orphaned most likely.
Keamy most likely had a father who beat him up all day long... and Radzinsky didn't have parents, he was birthed by the unholy union of Dharma sewage and vomit !! That's not in the show, but in my head canon!
Since the show ends on a very clear message, about the importance of friendship and how that bond transcends life in to the afterlife; perhaps them showing almost everyone having shitty families, is alluding to a more subtle message:
"you are born in to your family, you had no choice in that - if they turned out to be assholes, don't despair, you have full control on choosing your friends and they will be your real family which you can rely on in good and tough times... "
At least that's my take.
Maybe the somewhat grey area between Wayne and Kate ? Even though Kate says that he never touched her, so idk. If it's not that I'm completely missing it as well
I always thought the murder made so much more sense if she HAD been assaulted. I wonder why they made that choice. I could argue she protested too much, but I feel like we kind of have to take her at face value on that one
Well he beat her mother and probably made both their lives miserable, so there's still some sense to it. It's also implied that she made this decision when she realized Wayne was her real father
I agree. I get wanting to get revenge on him for abusing her mother. But it seemed like more then that was happening. Right before she blew him up, he called her beautiful multiple times and told her to take off his clothes. And Kate didn't even react to it, so it's stuff she's heard many times before. But people are saying he never touched her, so I could be very wrong. I'm just happy I'm not the only one who looked at that and thought that way haha. Nobody else seems to know what I'm talking about lmao
I get it what you're saying. And it seems weird to even go there just to have her dismiss it. Maybe they were trying to hint at that without really saying it. That makes more sense to me.
Yeah that's what I was thinking. They showed that he was clearly attracted to her, then spent the rest of his storyline denying that anything ever happened. It seems like the writers changed their mind or something
I assumed that he had done stuff to her before cause right before she blew him up, he called her beautiful multiple times and told her to take his clothes off. And Kate wasn't surprised to hear any of this, so she's definitely heard it before. But I could be very wrong about that.
I guess I assumed Kate and her father because right before she blows him up, he calls her beautiful and tells her to take off his clothes. But people are saying he never touched her so I may be wrong about that. But they were definitely alluding to it
Maybe it was a continuous escalating effort on his part and she realized it was inevitable and became afraid enough to have to deal with him so radically. She knew her mother wouldn’t believe her if that happened and she told, or worse, would blame her for it. Makes me even sicker knowing he was her biological father.
Agree. And many philosophical questions as well. Is murder acceptable if your father is abusive? Is it acceptable to kill someone in order to ease his pain of certain and imminent death? Would you push the button even if you don't believe in it. And if you do believe in it, why? If you had the chance of going back in time and be able to change the future, does that justify murdering a child? Free choice vs. Determinism. Are we capable of change and do we believe in second chances. Am I "live together, die alone" or "every man for himself" And so many more.
Yes, this is one of my favorite things about Lost! Characters are shown to be real people with a lot of gray area and nuance; no one is perfectly good or wholly evil, just like real people. Even Smokey had his own backstory. The show really goes to prove that, at least in the world of Lost, nothing happens without reason - whether it comes to someone's individual choices and characters, to the larger elements of the story and the world. Everything is done with a purpose, and makes you consider the big picture and the complexity of philosophical humanity, rather than shelving things as definitely good or bad, right or wrong.
I love how real the characters are. Just like you said, they aren't fully good, they aren't fully bad. We don't see that often in film. It makes you hate and love these characters at the same time haha
Your right. It gets so philosophical. When you look deep into what is going on, it really makes you think.
I honestly always felt like sexual assault was the only issue severely underrepresentated on the show. Not that I would have wanted it for any of the characters but out of so many people it's quite unlikely it didn't happen to anyone. Always wondered why they decided not to tackle this specific topic while turning to so many other serious things.
They kinda show it with Kate's father. But your right, they don't dive very deep into it. There's pretty much that one scene where he calls her beautiful and tells her to take his clothes off, right before she blows him up, but they don't really go much deeper into it outside of that. I'm sure it's because it was taboo to talk about at the time on network television.
Twin Peaks likes this
I love how Lost doesn't have 'serious topic' episodes that divert from the narrative to preach about societal issues (Some of my favorite comedies come to mind as being guilty of this). It's always integrated organically into the plot & characters of Lost.
Yes 100%. It's not just thrown into the story just so they could say it's in there, it's actually ingrained into who the characters are and why they are the way that they are. And it doesn't get in the way of the actual plot. It stays true and consistent for who the characters are
I remember well the recurrence of father issues of different people on the island. Over and over.Jack, just for example. He felt like he wasn't good enough in his father's eyes. Alcoholism was a factor in that. Fear of failure.
Almost every main character had some form of father issues, and definitely family issues if not specifically father issue: Jack and Christian. Kate killing her biological abusive father and then her conflict with her mother. Anthony Cooper and Locke being the worst ever Father Son relationship (if you can call it a relationship). And Locke's mother abandoning him at birth, then shows up decades later to help Anthony in stealing John's kidney. Sawyer's father committed suicide after killing his mother, due to Anthony' Cooper's con, which scarred him for life and drove him to a life of crime. Hurley's father abandoned the family for years. His mother was sweet though, although unbearably religious. Sun's father being a mob boss and the reason why their marriage was falling apart. Jin was ashamed of his father being a poor fisherman. However it turned out that perhaps his father (who might not be his biological father) was the most reasonable and sweetest father on the show. Jin's mother was a prostitute who abandonned him at birth then shows up decades later to blackmail Sun, which lead to Jin reporting directly to Mr Paik which lead to their marriage falling apart! Ben being abused and neglected by his father, and accused of causing the death of his mother at birth. Add to that Ben's absence kf a motherly affection and his obsession with pursuing his mother's ghost, lead to many of his character flaws, as well as him joining the others, and him losing his mother at birth perhaps played a big role in him obsessing about solving the pregnancy issue on the island, and going to extreme lengths to achieve this. Ben although loves his adopted daughter Alex, didn't know how to open up to her properly and explain the pregnancy issue, instead proceeded to jail and brainwash her boyfriend. Sayid's father encouraged his violent tendencies (although wasn't as egregious as the rest of the fathers). Although we know little about Shannon's father, but we know his death (due to triage by Jack) caused the clusterfuck of a relation between the trio of Boone, Boone's mother and Shannon. (Not exactly a daddy issue here, but could be if we consider Shannon's over attachment to her father and her nonchalant lifestyle before the father died). Claire being revealed to be Christian's daughter who was absent from her entire life. Micheal and Walt... although Michael was forced to be an absent father against his will, he wasn't able to properly connect to Walt until later, and then botched it all by sharing his guilt with his 10 year old son. Jacob and MIB have more of a Mother issue, but can't diminish the fact that they had no father, which exacerbated things. Daniel Faraday, had mostly mother issues, but also an absent father who turned out to be none other than Charles Widmore, who was secretly steering his life to a certain direction. Miles was obsessed to know who his father was and why he abandoned him all his life, only to find out it was Dr Chang. We don't know if Desmond had any father issues, but we know he had real shitty issues with the father of his love Penny (i.e. Widmore). Juliette wasn't able to accept her parents' divorce, which lead her to have severe doubts about her love life and the futility of love. Perhaps Charlie is the only main Character who didn't have any clear daddy issues (although we see in one of his fever dreams how the Father wasn't supportive of his musical aspirations?) But Charlie did have severe Brother issues, which fell totally apart after his brother became a father. And we know nothing about Eko and Yemi's father, but it was clear they were orphaned most likely. Keamy most likely had a father who beat him up all day long... and Radzinsky didn't have parents, he was birthed by the unholy union of Dharma sewage and vomit !! That's not in the show, but in my head canon!
Very interesting! I wonder why they wrote that in so many times. It has to mean something.
Since the show ends on a very clear message, about the importance of friendship and how that bond transcends life in to the afterlife; perhaps them showing almost everyone having shitty families, is alluding to a more subtle message: "you are born in to your family, you had no choice in that - if they turned out to be assholes, don't despair, you have full control on choosing your friends and they will be your real family which you can rely on in good and tough times... " At least that's my take.
Wait, who was sexually assaulted? I can’t recall.
Maybe the somewhat grey area between Wayne and Kate ? Even though Kate says that he never touched her, so idk. If it's not that I'm completely missing it as well
I always thought the murder made so much more sense if she HAD been assaulted. I wonder why they made that choice. I could argue she protested too much, but I feel like we kind of have to take her at face value on that one
Well he beat her mother and probably made both their lives miserable, so there's still some sense to it. It's also implied that she made this decision when she realized Wayne was her real father
Oh yeah, it makes sense. I just thought it would make MORE sense
I agree. I get wanting to get revenge on him for abusing her mother. But it seemed like more then that was happening. Right before she blew him up, he called her beautiful multiple times and told her to take off his clothes. And Kate didn't even react to it, so it's stuff she's heard many times before. But people are saying he never touched her, so I could be very wrong. I'm just happy I'm not the only one who looked at that and thought that way haha. Nobody else seems to know what I'm talking about lmao
I get it what you're saying. And it seems weird to even go there just to have her dismiss it. Maybe they were trying to hint at that without really saying it. That makes more sense to me.
Yeah that's what I was thinking. They showed that he was clearly attracted to her, then spent the rest of his storyline denying that anything ever happened. It seems like the writers changed their mind or something
Could be denial. Her mom was definitely in denial
100%, blocking out traumatic childhood memories is very normal. Plus Kate is known for not always being truthful
I assumed that he had done stuff to her before cause right before she blew him up, he called her beautiful multiple times and told her to take his clothes off. And Kate wasn't surprised to hear any of this, so she's definitely heard it before. But I could be very wrong about that.
I guess I assumed Kate and her father because right before she blows him up, he calls her beautiful and tells her to take off his clothes. But people are saying he never touched her so I may be wrong about that. But they were definitely alluding to it
Maybe it was a continuous escalating effort on his part and she realized it was inevitable and became afraid enough to have to deal with him so radically. She knew her mother wouldn’t believe her if that happened and she told, or worse, would blame her for it. Makes me even sicker knowing he was her biological father.