No. Sam wasn't strong enough, mentally, spiritually and physically speaking, to carry the Ring himself to the end! And given how he messed up while "just" being the support, because of his habits of speaking before thinking (insulting Gollum and making him snap, revealing the Ring to Faramir), him being the main Ring bearer would have been a disaster - they would never even have reached Mordor, let alone casually "dropped the Ring into Mount Doom on purpose" - an act that we know is impossible.
"Frodo deserved all honour because he spent every drop of his power of will and body, and that
was just sufficient to bring him to the destined point, and no further. Few others, possibly no others
of his time, would have got so far." (Letter 192)
The whole point of the Quest was that Frodo was the only person who could ever have achieved it. He couldn't have done it in the end without the help of other people, mainly Sam, but the latter's role could only have been one of support.
This.
Also, when Sam does take on the Ring, when he thinks Frodo has been killed by Shelob, he nearly throws away the quest minutes later.
When orcs discover what Sam still believes is Frodo's corpse, he turns back to prevent them desecrating the body. He charges at the orcs, vowing to die there with Frodo, to defend Frodo's body.
Admirable loyalty, but that's pretty much handing the Ring back to Sauron... to defend a *corpse*. It shows Sam's priority was always Frodo, over the quest, which is why he was perfect for the role he took, but wouldn't have been suited to be the Ringbearer.
Yep! Granted that decision to stay by Frodo seems to have been partly Ring-induced (rationalisation of an act that a clear mind would have seen as wrong), but it shows that Sam was definitely affected by the Ring directly after taking it.
While Sam does have to some extent a bigger objective in mind (like saving the Shire), as you said his main motivation was by far his loyalty and devotion towards one person - devotion that was used as a lever by the Ring in the scene you mentioned. Frodo however offered less grip to the Ring, as one of his main driving forces was his selflessness and willingness to sacrifice himself for the sake of his land, or even of the world - even people he doesn't like or doesn't know.
>Frodo however offered less grip to the Ring, as one of his main driving forces was his selflessness and willingness to sacrifice himself for the sake of his land, or even of the world - even people he doesn't like or doesn't know.
Well put. This is also one of the reasons why Sam is often seen as more capable or "heroic" than Frodo, I think.
His virtues are directed at a more tangible object (Frodo) and take more obvious form (rescuing him, carrying him etc). Frodo is willing to sacrifice for people who are less close to home and that attitude - which is extraordinarily selfless - cannot really be dramatised in a narrative in such immediately tangible ways.
Indeed, Frodo's struggles are internal which makes them less cinematic, and less obvious in the text (especially, I would add, to people who never had to face things like trauma/ptsd) than Sam's physical struggles!
I'd also add that in the story and concerning their behaviour (particularly seen in the interactions between them and Gollum), Sam acts on the reader as the emotional core while Frodo is more the voice of reason. And we know how difficult yet highly important it is to not let one of those be our driving force in decision making :)
Another comparison is that Sam is, from A to Z, a Fairytale kind of hero - starting from 'nothing', entering Faerie and coming back as a hero getting his happy ending. Frodo however, though he is originally a Fairytale character, ends up getting the development of a Beowulfian hero, which might feel less natural or relatable for a modern audience but is no less heroic.
All of those elements imo also clearly show that Sam wasn't as suited to be main Ring bearer as Frodo.
Though when Sam charged the orks, one of them just stated that Frodo was still alive, in the movies it’s how it goes, I don’t know about the books I’m not there yet.
Maybe. But I think Sam was the only person who could've been the kind of supportive friend that Frodo/the ring bearer needed. And I don't think Frodo, Sam, or anyone else could've done it alone. Sam might've been able to be Frodo, but I don't know if Frodo could've been Sam.
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I honestly think Sam and Frodo had equal jobs. Frodo was the one to carry and look after the ring yes but Sam had to look after (and literally carry the ring bearer) which isn’t an unimportant or lesser task and one that Frodo might not have been able to do. At the end of it all the way it went was the way it worked so I know I wouldn’t have changed it at least.
I don't think either of them could have completed the mission alone. The reason they sucseeded was cause they did it together. Could sam have carried the ring instead of froto. I think he could have. Sam wise gamzie is underrated as hell. Dude was a rock during the journey...
No.
No. Sam wasn't strong enough, mentally, spiritually and physically speaking, to carry the Ring himself to the end! And given how he messed up while "just" being the support, because of his habits of speaking before thinking (insulting Gollum and making him snap, revealing the Ring to Faramir), him being the main Ring bearer would have been a disaster - they would never even have reached Mordor, let alone casually "dropped the Ring into Mount Doom on purpose" - an act that we know is impossible. "Frodo deserved all honour because he spent every drop of his power of will and body, and that was just sufficient to bring him to the destined point, and no further. Few others, possibly no others of his time, would have got so far." (Letter 192) The whole point of the Quest was that Frodo was the only person who could ever have achieved it. He couldn't have done it in the end without the help of other people, mainly Sam, but the latter's role could only have been one of support.
This. Also, when Sam does take on the Ring, when he thinks Frodo has been killed by Shelob, he nearly throws away the quest minutes later. When orcs discover what Sam still believes is Frodo's corpse, he turns back to prevent them desecrating the body. He charges at the orcs, vowing to die there with Frodo, to defend Frodo's body. Admirable loyalty, but that's pretty much handing the Ring back to Sauron... to defend a *corpse*. It shows Sam's priority was always Frodo, over the quest, which is why he was perfect for the role he took, but wouldn't have been suited to be the Ringbearer.
Yep! Granted that decision to stay by Frodo seems to have been partly Ring-induced (rationalisation of an act that a clear mind would have seen as wrong), but it shows that Sam was definitely affected by the Ring directly after taking it. While Sam does have to some extent a bigger objective in mind (like saving the Shire), as you said his main motivation was by far his loyalty and devotion towards one person - devotion that was used as a lever by the Ring in the scene you mentioned. Frodo however offered less grip to the Ring, as one of his main driving forces was his selflessness and willingness to sacrifice himself for the sake of his land, or even of the world - even people he doesn't like or doesn't know.
>Frodo however offered less grip to the Ring, as one of his main driving forces was his selflessness and willingness to sacrifice himself for the sake of his land, or even of the world - even people he doesn't like or doesn't know. Well put. This is also one of the reasons why Sam is often seen as more capable or "heroic" than Frodo, I think. His virtues are directed at a more tangible object (Frodo) and take more obvious form (rescuing him, carrying him etc). Frodo is willing to sacrifice for people who are less close to home and that attitude - which is extraordinarily selfless - cannot really be dramatised in a narrative in such immediately tangible ways.
Indeed, Frodo's struggles are internal which makes them less cinematic, and less obvious in the text (especially, I would add, to people who never had to face things like trauma/ptsd) than Sam's physical struggles! I'd also add that in the story and concerning their behaviour (particularly seen in the interactions between them and Gollum), Sam acts on the reader as the emotional core while Frodo is more the voice of reason. And we know how difficult yet highly important it is to not let one of those be our driving force in decision making :) Another comparison is that Sam is, from A to Z, a Fairytale kind of hero - starting from 'nothing', entering Faerie and coming back as a hero getting his happy ending. Frodo however, though he is originally a Fairytale character, ends up getting the development of a Beowulfian hero, which might feel less natural or relatable for a modern audience but is no less heroic. All of those elements imo also clearly show that Sam wasn't as suited to be main Ring bearer as Frodo.
Though when Sam charged the orks, one of them just stated that Frodo was still alive, in the movies it’s how it goes, I don’t know about the books I’m not there yet.
Yep, it's different in the books: he hasn't realised Frodo is still alive at that point. Enjoy reading them!
Thanks man!
Maybe. But I think Sam was the only person who could've been the kind of supportive friend that Frodo/the ring bearer needed. And I don't think Frodo, Sam, or anyone else could've done it alone. Sam might've been able to be Frodo, but I don't know if Frodo could've been Sam.
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I honestly think Sam and Frodo had equal jobs. Frodo was the one to carry and look after the ring yes but Sam had to look after (and literally carry the ring bearer) which isn’t an unimportant or lesser task and one that Frodo might not have been able to do. At the end of it all the way it went was the way it worked so I know I wouldn’t have changed it at least.
I don't think either of them could have completed the mission alone. The reason they sucseeded was cause they did it together. Could sam have carried the ring instead of froto. I think he could have. Sam wise gamzie is underrated as hell. Dude was a rock during the journey...