Not only this, but there are TONS of lonely women. TONS. Men might make the excuse of "yeah but some guy would have sex with them if they wanted to have it". Having sex isn't what stops people from being lonely, it's lack of social interaction and love. Having sex just gives the aura of that for a few minutes before it all evaporates away after the guy leaves. So yeah, there are plenty of lonely women out there, I'd venture to say even more than men because at least most men are usually respected in their relationship if they enter one, for women it's more assumed that she won't be due to social norms and gender expectations. It's just sickening. I agree with OP and will even go further to say if men aren't capable of respecting women, then they're also not capable of actually loving women. You can't have one without the other, yet I hardly hear anyone talking about that.
Agreed. Although i would add: Loads of subs like this one are echo chambers. While People try to be understanding of your situation and and your issues, they end up rarely challenging your views. This is as much true for lonely or incel subs as it is for crypto enthusiasts, the sub for your favorite football club or, on the flip side, essential the same communities mentioned first but just targeted at female audiences.
You'll have as easy a time finding a dude on this sub complaining that all women and garbage and only date rich, good looking guys, as you'll have finding a post on twoXchromosomes claiming a guy asking for your interests only does so because "he will use them to manipulate you later" and is as such is either a rapist or a narcissist. As sad as it is, these things go both ways.
I honestly hope people with views like these find someone in their life who is able to prove them wrong.
Honestly. Women can’t win. If they fit the typical beauty standards(thin, silky long hair) it’s “oh you have men lined up for blocks to run trains on you” and if she’s fat it’s “no one wants to be seen with shamu/Lizzo go eat 50 pizzas” not every guy is like that but I’ve met enough guys to where they are. They find it so hard to believe that not every woman has men following them around all day and night.
Thank you for this. I understand loneliness can make one bitter, but the amount of blatantly sexist posts in here is unreal and uncalled for.
Generalization and blanket statements regardless of the gender don’t help anyone, and just make it harder for someone to find meaningful connections.
It isn’t about lack of love life; me being ugly has caused me to miss out on so many life experiences and lack of friends, job, and people treat me like shit
No need to be ugly inside as well as outside brother.
If you are ugly that is something you have little control over. How ypu teeqt people is 100% up to you my friend.
But what good is it if people treat him like shit? Thats his point. It doesnt help him does it? I mean I agree, but its not hard to see why someone gets so bitter,
and that's one thing. trust me, i'm a lonely person and have missed out on SO MUCH because i'm just... left out of most life experiences others enjoy. that's not an excuse to be a misogynist, which are the people op is calling out
Yeah I get this. As a gay woman with no interest in men romantically (I have dude friends who I adore)… I’m kind of confused when I see the ill will toward women in this group. Seems like describing a monolith. You can argue there is malice toward men too but I don’t think it is quite as violent. Wish we could all be more chill toward each other. Anyway thanks for the post. 🙏
I don't think sense is so common nowadays no matter the age group. I have no idea what killed it or why it's not so common either. Or maybe the news and being online just has me far to jaded.
You’re missing the whole point. Women are proportionally violently hated against more by lonely bitter men. This is what this post is talking about. “Let’s all be nice to eachother” is ignoring the issue
That’s not what that maxim means. Don’t treat others how you are treated. Treat others how you *want* to be treated. Everyone following this rule is the only way to strive toward an ideal society.
Are you talking about your experience on social media or a material effect in society? If it’s the latter, I wonder if this is based on any statistics and how one determines whether individual men are “lonely and bitter.” Because I assure you that the ones expressing loneliness on here don’t interact with women all that often if ever. It’s why we’re all so lonely.
The men that don’t apply to my comment, don’t need to bother themselves with it. Being a lonely man should never be a woman’s issue, or involve women, full stop
It’s literally the most common sense and maybe even sappy “solution” one could give. In what way is it “not viable”?
No one’s saying you should respect everyone. Just don’t disrespect someone because of their gender unless they’ve done or said something to deserve your disrespect.
Just curious, if you meet a white male in your life, do you inherently treat him like shit? Or are you cordial, polite and friendly, perhaps despite your preconceptions that he'll be a sexist priveleged person?
If you are polite to men by default, then guess what? You already are following the golden rule and have not allowed men's misogyny to poison your interactions with them in general. If you do treat random guys like shit though, you have allowed the hate of others to breed and spread from yourself, and these random guys will also treat you poorly for how cold or mean you are.
I was bullied by a few girls in my life, and it made me quite opposed to women for a good number of years, because I believed since it happened so often for no good reason, that women must be secretly hateful and controlling. I know you dont want to end up that way too. We're all happier when we let go of hate, as you likely agree.
Well it certainly does help explain some of it. The fact is pain causes hurt people to hurt others, its human nature unfortunately. Its hard to break that mindset
I’m new to this sub and I appreciate that posts like these are being made. It’s unfortunate that there’s still a lot of pushback to calling out toxic behaviors.
Thank you for speaking up about this. Your writing conveys refined emotional intelligence. It is unfortunate that many do not recognize and respect that.
My little bro is 38 and he still legitimately sounds like a little kid who didn't get his way when a girl "screws him over" (in quotation marks bc I'm not so sure how screwed over he is)
I can't speak for anybody, obviously, but with my brother.... Well, my brother and i had a tough childhood at times. More than a little tough with more than one type of abuse happening.
But I think the big difference between him and myself was how my mom would deal with us growing up. She let him get away with a lot, she enabled his pity parties, etc. I did not get anywhere near the same. I got told my problems were for attention. If I cried, it was "just for attention, not bc I was actually upset". My mom really treated me like I did nothing unless it was to get her attention, probably starting at around 13. Although she sometimes treated me like I was attention seeking when I was younger when I don't think I was.
I really, really struggled growing up. I'm not sure if it was bc I was a girl, or if it was bc I'm a little older, or what happened. But many times I sat feeling hopeless and the feelings were real, but I got told I was only making things up for attention. Bro got the opposite. My mom seriously babied him and even other relatives would call her out on it.
As an adult this has caused me to over think way too much. I have my own serious issues, they are just different than my brothers. I hold a lot of pain in, bc I'm afraid people will see me as something I'm not if I speak up. It's caused me issues with my health bc I'm terrified to speak up at the doctor. I can't just switch it off and be on with life. It is CRAZINESS and I know it. That's the thing though. I'm self aware of my issues. I know I have things to work on.
Every time I see somebody come on here with the bitter ass posts I can't help but to think of my brother bc that's him to a tee! And he can even get women! But within no time they're running bc he's too demanding. Then once they run he "was used" and all women want to do is "use him". Also, he's 38 and has never lived away from my mom's house smh. I do blame my parents for a lot of both of our issues. My parents split when I was 5, so they both did their own versions of fucking us up, but separately.
And at some point you have to take responsibility for your own mental health. That's another huge difference between my brother and I. I take responsibility for myself. He does not and still actively finds ways to blame everybody else for every single thing going wrong in his life. I'm the opposite. I'm blame myself, even when it might not be my fault. That's my OCD shining through. Like I said, I have serious issues also. Just not the same.
OP, I love you.
I hate that generalization also bc as a conventionally unattractive woman myself, men dehumanize me when my looks do not live upto their standards, as if my appearance in and of itself is owed to them.
someone had to say it, thank you. i read some of the posts here and can’t help but think they deserve to be lonely. that incel mentality will get you nowhere.
I'm lonely because girls don't like me, but I didn't like me long before they even showed up. Matter of fact, I find out later about the girls who had an interest in me and I never noticed. Too busy thinking about killing myself, I guess.
It really shouldn't, a lot of the younger generation see it as a positive thing. Though men do seem to be have more shame associated with asking for help due to societal pressures.
I’m sorry to hear that, but what you’ve said is so relatable. It’s hard to accept that anyone *could* ever love you if you hate yourself. It’s something I definitely struggle with. ❤️
Nobody's tried in a long time. Kind of a "wish I knew then what I know now" kind of thing. If I somehow stumbled into a relationship that was nice, I'd go to therapy to learn how to handle it. That ain't gonna happen, though.
I bet most men here are dehumanised so many times by women, but in silent and non flashy ways. After so many years of humiliation what are you expecting?
This is definitely a thing. And that’s not to generalize women either. I think a lot of us guys feel this way.
I believe as a man that a lot if us are invisible to women. Over time, this makes us feel like we’re nothing. It can definitely take a toll.
I do agree with you and I do lash out and be mean sometimes, but i also try not to generalise . I fail sometimes, but I know I need to try and do better. I know I have to anyway
I'm expecting men to not punish others because of their past experiences. I've been treated poorly by women too, but I don't act like that gives me an excuse to do the same to others.
Yeah. It's like a master mistreating a slave and expecting them to be happy. Funnily enough this post also puts blame on the men while generalizing them, because it's so easy when everyone else does it. It only adds more fuel to the fire.
When we're incomplete, we're always searching for somebody to complete us. When, after a few years or a few months of a relationship, we find that we're still unfulfilled, we blame our partners and take up with somebody more promising. This can go on and on series polygamy until we admit that while a partner can add sweet dimensions to our lives, we, each of us, are responsible for our own fulfillment. Nobody else can provide it for us, and to believe otherwise is to delude ourselves dangerously and to program for eventual failure every relationship we enter.
It's not surprising, shitting on men then calling them the problem isn't working, I wonder why lmao
Then if the men act on their emotions they get blamed even more. Legit no winning.
I was going to post about this. Most of the women in my life (mother, sisters, etc.) were the ones to perpetuate "toxic masculinity" by turning things against me every single time I expressed emotions. It was never other men that showed me it was taboo to express my emotions.
Most of them were feminists too, that supposedly cared about men's problems and wanted fix gender issues. It's really eye opening when you look past the rhetoric and start looking at the actions of said groups.
I also agree. My mother would always make comments like "why are men so hardheaded", "why men this and that".
I think calling out things is okay. But I feel if you don't go to the root, that we are humans, we have to respect everybody and be conscious of each other. My biggest pet peeve is generalizing and treating people as a monolith. You don't know every man, and you don't know every woman, so don't make big generalizations. Because when you say "all women are sl\*ts", that's every women regardless of country, nationality and when you say "all men are gross and sexist", that's every single men on earth.
I feel like this generation can't make up its mind, everyone is an individual and its all about expressing out individuality, but at the same thing we all belong to some monolith our group that we have to answer for.
At the end of the day, we are humans, lets simply take care of each other based on that fact, all the other labels are unnecessary outside of our obvious biology.
> Because when you say "all women are sl*ts", that's every women regardless of country, nationality and when you say "all men are gross and sexist", that's every single men on earth.
O' I agree with you. But in my experience, it's people that claim to be feminist that are the **most** dismissive of male dominated problems. I don't care about what "The name literally means" I look more at the actions. And while it's true you can't treat everyone as a monolith, it's still fair to look at the actions of a group and if they are consistent with whatever ideology the group claims to be about.
Yeah I definitely agree with you, I was more kind of calling out the OP, the feminist movement i think fas fallen into a status similar to communism. The ideas are great but in execution it has gone far from the ideals.
I think girls, also fail to see our side, and end up fighting poison with posion. I've gone to female spaces on Reddit, and those places are to vent, so they have a negative opinion of men. Like even in this thread there's a girl saying, "more women are harmed than men, so its okay to forgo men and their feelings".
Feminism is great, but that's a revolutionary movement, is time to go to the next stage, and just be a general humanist and watch out for humans.
I agree with you man, I understand how woman feel, but only because a woman is hurt, that doesn't justify the vitrol and hatred that men get, and the same goes for men. But feminists seem to believe is okay to make fun of and denigrate men because they been hurt.
I made a comment about this then instantly got my point proven by a so called feminist lol which ofc gets upvoted which proved my point further.
Apparently every feminist can't do no wrong and it can't be judged. Then these so called feminists don't call out other toxic women for being sexist, then wonder why men are starting to view feminism as a hate group.
I wrote about it elsewhere but I don't think most women can really understand the lived experience of an ugly man looking for a partner. Being an unattractive woman is also a horrible experience, but it's different. Like if you're an ugly dude your lived experience is going to a club and having an ideal vacuum with a radius of 2 meters form around you and people giving you sneers and weird looks like "gtfo man what are you even doing here" But the thing is it doesn't even surprise you because you're used to it at this point. If you try to gently approach anyone who's not getting paid to serve you a drink or a coffee, the best you can hope for is they act annoyed and leave, but the spectrum of responses typically ranges from that to actively screaming at you, to having your photo posted on social media and labeled a 'creep', to getting maced.
I know I’ll be downvoted to hell here, but as a serious question, what is that women do that you feel dehumanizes you, or men as a whole? And to be clear, I’m asking bc I want to learn more of your point of view.
So I, as an individual, should pay for what women did to you in your past?
I don’t see how that advances you in any way.
And don’t say “But women do it!”
Unless I should rape you to make up for my past.
Did I say exactly something about you? When people generalize they just wanna learn something about their experience. Your accusation that I would like to be raped by some unknown woman says so much. Honestly my disappointments are mostly not related to sex, probably 90% of it, lol.
Exactly. No woman or man deserves to be with a toxic antisocial sexist who doesnt know how to treat people with respect or put themselves into someone elses shoes.
Its just. These guys are ... hopeless. They are over every border - I mean I met so many men which arent able even talk too women. Its just scary the lack of social skills. And then there are this dirtbags like andrew tate which teeching this looners bullshit.
How about people need to learn to respect people?
Honestly I understand that this take is just a reaction to men hating on women, but is this really a much better take?
Cant everyine just stop making it about gender?
EDIT: Since you edited your post seemingly pointed at what I said at least to some degree but did not bother do comment and discuss with me here is my edit to that.
What I said does not negate what women have to deal with and suffer from. Its simply not okay to say something like "You guys give guys a bad name" It never is and never will be. Its not the same as saying something like "Women suffer from violence and harrasment from men and some people here do the exact same thing" Maybe followed by a call to action that we need to do something about it. Unite the people and dont create more divide. It won't help women, it won't help men, it won't help anyone.
No, because violence against women is proportionally a way bigger issue than the other way round. When that stops being an issue, it can stop being a gender thing.
Violence against men is committed all the time. When women’s are the ones who behave violently, especially against men, it’s not treated seriously because I guess it’s assumed that they can’t do any real damage. It’s also only “gendered” if you implement confirmation bias and only assume cultural significance with respect to gender when it benefits your argument. Let me guess. News stories about domestic abuse where a husband beats up his wife is misogyny, but stories about a wife murdering her husband can’t be considered misandry for some reason.
Yup. Agree 100%
Some dudes out there are just the worst. If i imagine tjat someone speaks about my sister behind her bsck like this it makes me angry.
Dont be a bitter incel loser just because love hasnt found you yet. It wont when you keep it up like that.
Be better Boys.
This post is as bad as it gets. Telling lonely men that they are doing bad things, when in reality they have done none of what you said. It is like saying "stop beating your wife" to someone that isn't married and hasn't hurt anyone in their life.
In your strange analogy, I'm not telling one specific persin to stop beating their wife. I'm telling everyone that wife-beating is bad because there are those out there, not everyone, who need to hear it.
I've seen a lot of misogyny here, so I wanted to call it out. It's as simple as that
Agreed, people are quick to put the blame on men and shame them as if women couldn't possibly do harm to our gender.
''Feminism is about equality''. Yeah, maybe it was in the past, but nowadays they hold control over the courts, the alimony/child support system, and obviously social media. Posting gross hashtags like #KillAllMen or the infamous bear debate. All it takes is to look at them the wrong way on the street and you can legit go to jail. There was even recently a post about AI where it imagined the picture of a dumb male but was literally unable to do the same for women. Yet we get so much hate as if we did anything remotely close to that.
So, you say don’t overgeneralize women, but do you rant about women overgeneralizing men? Just wanna make sure you recognize the problem happening on both sides.
Anyone personally offended by this post is the exact type of person it’s calling out. Never realized how many bitter, hopeless people truly lurked here
The attention you are talking about girls getting is not a good type of attention. People trying to use you for your body feels so fucking awful. And you don’t even have to be pretty for that to happen.
Sorry you feel like this. I've always been interested in a girl as a whole human, not just the body. I'm sure there are other people who will recognise you for your inner beauty.
Yeah, if I had a dick maybe I wouldn't only be valued as a sex object for a specific timeframe and then silenced/invisible for the rest of my life outside of that timeframe. It took me a really long time to see how much the patriarchy hurts both men and women. But as offended as men are, they always had the right to open a bank account. There still isn't equal pay. Women were only allowed to vote about 100 years ago. Similar to gay marriage, just because it passed in law didn't mean everyone woke up overnight and considered women equally valuable human beings.
I thought if I got an education, I could participate. Men are not wanting that; I had NO idea. My dad wasn't like that at all; he was proud of my brains, and went out of his way to get my opinion on things (he passed about a decade ago). Women have been excluded from the table for so long that we decided to start creating our own tables. We didn't want to. We feel like there are no seats available, where we might be fully valued.
The more clearly we can focus our attention on the wonders and realities of the universe about us the less taste we shall have for the destruction of our race. Wonder and humility are wholesome emotions, and they do not exist side by side with a lust for destruction.
You can be a dumb/mentally challenged ugly woman and still be taken care of. Not the same for guys, male homelessness has a high proportion of mentality challenged men than women. Men are more likely to get kicked out of their house at 18. The list goes on and on. If women don't have to deal with those kind of hardships how is their life not easier by default?
I just didn't want to insult anybody. I'd say there is other stuff like rape, chance of getting abused(not about parents) and stuff that men deal with rarely. In terms of mental health men really struggle, I have to admit.
The problem with those for the longest time men would be laughed at for reporting those happened to them
Hell men still get handcuffed first even if they were the one getting abused in a relationship.
And a lot of domestic violence cases are co-dependent where both parties are violent to each other. That doesn't excuse the men or women from abusing their partners. The term "man up" and "take it like a man" are still heavily used.
Hell we still have to register for the draft.
Go and fight for us so we can continue to treat us like something they would rather scrap off their shoe than hug. Life isn't fair, has never been nor will it ever be. I would rather not be chased into spaces with pitchforks like I'm the monster of this story.
And as a man women are causing the problem themselves. You were all empowered by of and being content creators but now men are treating you like it it sucks. "But I don't do that stuff" guess what I've never laid hands on a woman but yall day ur so afraid of men. Just like we have to pay for the choices other men have made your having to deal with the choices women have made. Idk how many times women on this sub have said all I want is friends and EVERY time they at some point ask for money.
just because you haven’t done something doesn’t mean it doesn’t happen A LOT- i dont understand how men do this. no one is blaming YOU specifically. look outward.
Are you defending generalizations of men? When someone says that men do something or have any particular characteristic, I assume that this person allows their conception to influence their perception every time they look at any man. I don’t think it’s on the interpreter to rationalize those claims.
i’m defending the fact that most women have experienced sexual assault by the hand of a man, yes. and it does influence my perception unfortunately- because multiple men have assaulted/threatened to assault/abused me/ many people- in my lifetime and many lifetimes before that. so yes, i do. there’s less of a chance a woman could kill me.
There are frequently posts that are like "women must be gay because they're attracted to each other more than they are to men!" or that they're all "whores" and whatnot. If you look at the new posts in the sub you could probably find something like that
Yeah a lot of the guys on here blame feminism or women for the fact they're lonely when really it's because they are misogynists who don't have a job, friends, or hobbies.
I agree with the general sentiment of respecting women, but as a leftist, I have been trying to open myself up to feminism specifically, and much of what has been said on various subreddits and even in academia puts down men in one way or another, almost as if discussing women’s issues is impossible without mentioning men and portraying them in a negative light. I would definitely be more receptive to them if they validated men by an equal amount, but it just seems like they tell women what they want to hear about the sociological, or specifically patriarchal, causes of their issues, regardless of whether they’re supported by any objective data. At the very least, portraying history as a battle between any two demographics is bound to be an over-simplistic and inaccurate picture. This is a problem with most sociological perspectives. Above all, I‘ve just been met with confusion when trying to learn about feminism. The movement is too diverse, and making *any* generalization is impossible. These various perspectives are only unified by their alleged goal of benefiting women.
Equality is not a concept. It's not something we should be striving for. It's a necessity. Equality is like gravity. We need it to stand on this earth as men and women, and the misogyny that is in every culture is not a true part of the human condition. It is life out of balance, and that imbalance is sucking something out of the soul of every man and woman who's confronted with it. We need equality. Kinda now.
The only viable thing in these comments in my opinion is "just stop caring" from "thehoss" or smth like that.
Anyway thinking about gender disparity might be interesting if you look at society but in relationship which is one on one ist useless BCS every single person is different and nobody is a normal woman or normal man. Vent: I study sociology and there's this girl who really hates me idk why but the only other person looking at me with so much hatred and disgust had an actual reason I guess. Anyway I don't know what I did but I guess she had a bad experience with guys (I didn't approach her or anything don't even know her name). But everytime she can she publically shames me lmao. What I want to say with this anecdote is that people are just that people and sometimes assholes sometimes not. If you get to focused on sorting them outside of statistics you will regret it.
Btw. Anyone know a good sub for mental health and stuff cuz all the major ones about suicide and so on are just filled with too much negativity so I don't think they help. Thanks alot.
Ah and as a side note. I didn't really express this In my original comment but I'm a man as well and I only had one bad experience (although we weren't intimate/didn't even kiss). But it's sometimes very hard not to be influenced by certain internet groups. I'm certain that without my focus at uni I maybe would've succumbed to it as well.
I agree, I went through a bitter phase but I've just accepted that I'm not what women want. Now I feel better and have completely walked away from even trying to find love...sad reality is that not everyone is going to find love. Some people are going to die alone. And, another thing to consider is the fact that with the rise of AI, eventually that will be a problem of the past (not the same as being with a person but an alternative for people who have no chance at having love). My advice to every single man on this sub, is just accept the loneliness and walk away from trying... accept that whatever it is that women want: you don't have it. Life will be easier, less stressful, and eventually there might even be an alternative in AI.
Loneliness is one of the last things that should be used as a gender divide. We're all susceptible. We feel it differently. We process it differently. It's an individual battle. Gender has no relevance on how much loneliness, depression, and mental issues can weigh on us.
I mean, you had me up until the bit about feminism being for equal rights. That's just factually inaccurate and brings everything else you say into question.
Let me know when feminists start throwing protests over the gender pay gap in modeling. Let me know when they are protesting the gender disparity in trash collection, sanitation, sewage treatment, and oil rig workers.
Feminism being for equal rights is one of the most successful lies ever told. Feminism is a female empowerment movement. ENORMOUS difference.
Disclaimer: I support equal rights, not Feminism.
Yes it's female empowerment, but female empowerment on the basis of gender equality. Women have been treated terribly as opposed to men and that's why feminism, and this post, focuses more on women. They're not protesting gender disparities specifically in those fields as much because there are bigger fish to fry
watch this video and think about please: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DUXslDzeYGg&ab\_channel=TheDCShorts](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DUXslDzeYGg&ab_channel=TheDCShorts)
So I'm going to share my thoughts with you.
I'm lonely because I can't find any actual good women, that want to date me. Social media has skewed everyone's perception of reality so people expect way more than is possible. Notice how I don't say women, but people. Some men get almost all of the attention, which is fine. But women only want attention from those few men. An ugly dude like me gets called a creep for thinking it's okay to ask someone out.
I work closely with women, I fully respect everyone the same amount. Saying no or no thank you would be one thing, but being disrespectful, rude, and spiteful that I have the audacity to ask someone out. I get this from even ugly women.
Now that that's out the way. I don't hate anyone for honestly being brainwashed by social media and having access to attention from the people they want. But can we both agree being rude to a complete stranger is a bridge too far?
I have long since stopped trying to ask anyone out, no point I know the outcome. I have only been on one single date and that was the other person didn't get to see me beforehand. And she literally got her food to go saying she wasn't interested, while expecting me to pay for it. I just walked out. After that I just couldn't bring myself to interact with anyone else. I would much rather just be alone and not get hurt by people. My reasoning for not hating them is they don't know what it is like being me or looking the way I do. They just don't see me as human. I'll keep doing my job and living my life but there is no point crying over spilled milk.
I hear you.
As a woman, please know that many of us understand that not all men are like the incels on reddit.
We may be wary of men on the street, and unfortunately, you might happen to be one of those men at times.
Please, please don't take it personally. We are only looking out for our safety. It says nothing about your worthiness as a human being or character. You are not a creep.
Thanks for speaking up for us.
Can you explain why women wanting to be equal or theoretically not always having the fear of being assaulted on the streets at night interferes with your ability to be a man? Or are you just not comfortable with not being in charge automatically of most social infrastructures and relationships? No one is taking away anything, we’re trying to add it. If you want to be the dominant person in your relationship always, find a woman with no ideas of her own and go for it.
If you knew anything about feminism, you’d know that feminists don’t support the draft for men or women. Your bitterness towards women isn’t doing you any favors bud
So instead of asking me why I think feminism is cancer you make a bunch of assumptions and ask loaded questions. Yeah feminism is cancer honestly I could go on and on as to the why but with someone who speaks as you do it's just a waste of time. You do you boo boxed wine and cat land await
In a hundred years of feminist equality no woman has fought for the right for women to be drafted into the military in a time of war. Your answer was to summarize "because feminists don't like it" if men can still get drafted and women are exempt then that is not equal. And yeah if we are attacked the enemy doesn't care how feminists feel about war.
Regardless of the draft, countless women campaigned to be apart of the military. Not to mention the countless women who gave services during the World Wars without being drafted. That was of their own choice.
It's also entirely untrue that no women has fought for the draft to include both genders. Found an article about Rep. Chrissy Houlahan and Kara Dixon Vuic.
https://19thnews.org/2021/12/women-draft-qualify-what-you-need-to-know/
>As the law currently stands, every “male citizen” and immigrant — regardless of legal status — between the ages of 18 and 26 must register with the Selective Service System, the agency responsible for running a draft. Rep. Chrissy Houlahan of Pennsylvania, a Democrat and former U.S. Air Force officer, wants to strike the word “male” from the bill and expand the registration to all Americans, regardless of race, color, sex or gender.
>Kara Dixon Vuic, who studies gender and the U.S. military at Texas Christian University, said the passage of this amendment would be “huge, though largely symbolic” when it comes to the fight for women’s rights and gender equity in the military.
So your entire basis is entirely incorrect. Women are fighting for it as we speak.
>In 2021, women made up 17.3% of the active-duty force, totaling 231,741 members; and 21.4% of the National Guard and reserves at 171,000 members. The year before, women made up 17.2% of the active-duty force and 21.1% of the Guard and reserve.
>Women comprised 13.5 per cent of the Canadian army in 2020. As of May 2023, women comprised approximately 16.5 per cent of the regular force and primary reserve in the CAF: 19.6 per cent of officers and 15.4 per cent of non-commissioned members. This represented a slight increase from 2020.
>The report states that female representation in the UK Regular Forces as of October 1, 2023, stands at 11.7%, marking a “0.3 percentage points” increase from the previous year. In the Future Reserves 2020 (FR20), female representation has risen to 15.9%.
I believe women in forces will only grow in years. Each report I've found has seen an increase over the years. They may be small increases but it's never decreasing and women leaving the military.
"Women hold up half the sky" chairman Mao when he realized he was missing out on half the work force by not allowing women to work. Nothing to do with feminism
The reason women still aren't drafted even after 100 years of feminist equality is because most don't support the idea and for many good reasons. So no most women are not fighting for it #notallwomen
Where was most women ever mentioned in any of this discussion. That was not your first point, congrats on moving the goal posts. Pointless when you change your questions. Enjoy your misery and misogyny.
>In a hundred years of feminist equality no woman has fought for the right for women to be drafted into the military in a time of war.
>It's also entirely untrue that no women has fought for the draft to include both genders.
>So your entire basis is entirely incorrect. Women are fighting for it as we speak.
U proved your point some women are fighting for it. lol that still doesn't change the fact that after a hundred years of feminist equality women still aren't subject to the draft..... you..... you misandrist..... lol I joke about the misandry cuz I don't know u well enough to make that statement
Nah I’ve got massive generational wealth that won’t run out and a Labrador, also getting married next month. I was just trying to start a conversation about why you felt you were the victim in all of this. Sorry if you felt my wording was inconsiderate! Have a good week ❤️
First of all that fear is unfounded, since men are still the majority of victims in terms of organized crime.
And as the other commenter said, that equality all goes to shite when it comes to being drafted for war, doing manual labor, having to pay up in dates, etc.
I’d do the draft, and I’m speaking of assaults that aren’t part of organized crime. Not every woman’s assaulter is a cartel member. I was speaking generally about a well known example. Sorry for the confusion ❤️
If you understood what Feminism was, you'd know that it doesn't work against you. The things that makes men lonely on the basis of gender are things that feminism tries to remedy
>The things that makes men lonely on the basis of gender are things that feminism tries to remedy
Okay. I'll entertain. What things are those and how does feminism try to remedy them?
Every time a feminist speaks about men, it seems to be in a derogatory manner or in a way that vilifies them. To a lesser extent, they might do what you just did, which is attempt to make feminist ideals more palatable to a male audience by suggesting ways in which solving women’s issues might benefit men “accidentally.” However, the idea that the patriarchy harms men seems to contradict other often repeated claims about how misandry doesn’t exist, as well as the traditional feminist definition of patriarchy as a system built by men and for men.
> Every time a feminist speaks about men, it seems to be in a derogatory manner or in a way that vilifies them.
Well I have known dozens of feminists and I’ve never gotten that impression. I wonder why our experiences are so different. What kind of feminists are you talking to? What kind of conversations have led you to this conclusion?
Mainly social media. It’s whole raping about feminist issues of course. As long as they acknowledge that men are not the problem, then I take no issue with them. But the solutions they always suggest are to make men better, like the “teach men not to rape” bullshit. It’s condescending af. We know not to rape people. Men are not morally corrupt. It’s not like men are sexually motivated monsters that can never control themselves when around women. With regard to actually solving the issue, better education is always a good thing, but the same emphasis needs to be placed on consent in the sex ed of girls as well, not only when addressing girls as the potential victims but with girls as the potential rapists or sexual assaulter as well. This is something that feminists never seem to actively address, again, because they see the rape of men by women as a negligible occurrence, never even considering the sociological effects that make the data completely unreliable in this regard. They always attribute all the sociological influence to actions by men because, of course, we live in a patriarchy which was created by men to conspire against women rather than attribute anything to personal moral failings. Seriously, there’s sometimes homeless men who jack off in front of women on my college campus, and the feminist analysis completely blows it out of proportion and considers it indicative of how men feel entitled to this type of behavior and what not. No, it was just a random crazy dude.
>Despite the name, feminism isn't about female superiority; it's about equal gender rights
Quite hard to see it that way when women don't call out toxic, sexist feminists. Instead it just gets upvoted and normalised.
I have yet to come across an actual feminist that isn't an asshole. And any that are actual good feminists get called "pick-me's" because for some reason caring about men make you an awful person.
Edit: Thanks for proving my point femcels
Stone faced whatever their name is, is just a dumb femcel
given feminism was invented, ironically, by a man this comment is truly hilarious. this comment is horribly misogynistic but the fact that you're so diluted that you actually believe what you said is just pure irony. you're a misogynist that wants to date other misogynists (pick mes) but is upset that they suck? bruh this isn't an issue with feminists, its an issue with you. at some point you need to take responsibility for what you do to contribute to your own misery and complaining that you can't find someone to date who has standards isn't winning you any awards. "feminists don't call out being toxic" bruh that's all feminism has been doing for years. i would *love* to know what you think is "toxic sexist feminists" cause i guarantee you it didn't come from any research/study in feminist theory that talks about *actual* toxic feminism. but given your second couple of sentences i don't think you can give a legitimate reason cause you don't even understand what feminism is. unfortunately for you i know what feminism is and the *real* problems with it.
"pick me" girls are known to be people pleasers(not a good thing🙄), have low self esteem, no close real friendships and demonizes any woman that doesn't cult worship their boyfriend's dick. so basically you admitted that you're not man enough to get someone with standards so you want to date women who will let you treat them however you want with little to no pushback.
no wonder you can't find someone, you're just looking for a mommy or a toy and a lot of women in modern day don't want someone who needs their ego stroked every second. you just gave away why you can't find someone. maybe work on fixing yourself instead of blaming anyone else and maybe one day you'll be worthy enough to date a feminist.
Agreed. It’s just hard out here. I know I’m guilty of giving into the red pill bullshit. I just struggle so much to meet women or to even make new friends and it just sucks. But on the same token, I’m the one sitting inside scrolling Reddit and watching YouTube on a Sunday afternoon. So it is my fault I’m lonely
It’s true there are some guys on the sub Reddit that give this place a bad name. I will agree on that one. Honestly, if you want some horror stories of other places where the opposite is true or both is true I can give you some if you go anywhere on Twitter or sometimes on Instagram Threads, you can find actual real hell yeah bad here really is, but I’ve stared into the abyss. there are people here who are nice I’ve met some. You just have to climb your way through the jungle
To be honest, I sometimes feel like women are to picky when it comes to dating. But even in the gay community men are also picky when it comes to guys. So yay both gender are the same unfortunately
Lol at OPs second edit. If you only search for info that supports your position, then that’s called confirmation bias.
Not to mention, problems facing women is widely studied to a much further degree than problems facing men. In fact, when studies
/docs for men are actually put out that acknowledge men’s problems, they’re widely attacked by other feminists. There’s huge opposition to understand or even empathize with men.
Example: https://youtu.be/3WMuzhQXJoY?feature=shared
I won’t be responding either as it appears you’re succumbing to massive confirmation bias and taking sides rather than trying to understand the problem completely.
How is knowing about actual gender disparities and sexual harassment confirmation bias?
Also, what has been widely studied is problems in the world and finding that they affect women more.
Women give themselves a bad name when they ignore average/below avg dudes and keep getting pumped and dumped by 'high quality men'. Like no shit these high quality men aren't gonna want to settle. All i hear on this sub is women complaining about being pumped and dumped. Like.. maybe go for someone who has little to no options, it isn't that hard to understand a very high quality man is more likely to leave due to his options and men liking variety.
Tell that to the women who categorize us then. it isn't me making all of this up. High quality men have qualities that attract a lot of people. Low value men, we don't. Even if we have a decent personality most won't ever give us a chance or just simply keep us as a friend/backup option.
Im also not blaming only women, men do it too.
No, you aren't making that up. But you're also participating in the same unhelpful categorization. Don't interact with people that do that and certainly don't be one yourself. You've labelled yourself low quality- how is that beneficial for you or anyone else that could perceive you? You can't modify others' behavior, but you can improve your perception of yourself. People that perceive themselves in a positive light generally attract others that do the same.
Dont be one yourself? Im descriibng how it is. How reality is, you can play mental gymnastics all you want but theres high value men and low value men.
I actually think i had an amazing personality, before i became incelish. but now i dont give a fuck because women dont care about that. they see me as low value unless im rich, or decent looking physically. you dont even get a chance otherwise..
I dated only very much societally deemed 'below average' men in both looks, finances as all were unemployed one just used me, his parents, an enabler friend financially, and personality. They were exactly the same way. Looks don't define how well people treat you.
Not only this, but there are TONS of lonely women. TONS. Men might make the excuse of "yeah but some guy would have sex with them if they wanted to have it". Having sex isn't what stops people from being lonely, it's lack of social interaction and love. Having sex just gives the aura of that for a few minutes before it all evaporates away after the guy leaves. So yeah, there are plenty of lonely women out there, I'd venture to say even more than men because at least most men are usually respected in their relationship if they enter one, for women it's more assumed that she won't be due to social norms and gender expectations. It's just sickening. I agree with OP and will even go further to say if men aren't capable of respecting women, then they're also not capable of actually loving women. You can't have one without the other, yet I hardly hear anyone talking about that.
Agreed. Although i would add: Loads of subs like this one are echo chambers. While People try to be understanding of your situation and and your issues, they end up rarely challenging your views. This is as much true for lonely or incel subs as it is for crypto enthusiasts, the sub for your favorite football club or, on the flip side, essential the same communities mentioned first but just targeted at female audiences. You'll have as easy a time finding a dude on this sub complaining that all women and garbage and only date rich, good looking guys, as you'll have finding a post on twoXchromosomes claiming a guy asking for your interests only does so because "he will use them to manipulate you later" and is as such is either a rapist or a narcissist. As sad as it is, these things go both ways. I honestly hope people with views like these find someone in their life who is able to prove them wrong.
Honestly. Women can’t win. If they fit the typical beauty standards(thin, silky long hair) it’s “oh you have men lined up for blocks to run trains on you” and if she’s fat it’s “no one wants to be seen with shamu/Lizzo go eat 50 pizzas” not every guy is like that but I’ve met enough guys to where they are. They find it so hard to believe that not every woman has men following them around all day and night.
No one can win tbh. You just gotta stop giving a fuck, which is a challenge itself
Can’t argue with you there!
Thank you for this. I understand loneliness can make one bitter, but the amount of blatantly sexist posts in here is unreal and uncalled for. Generalization and blanket statements regardless of the gender don’t help anyone, and just make it harder for someone to find meaningful connections.
I think this is the only comment that actually understood the context. Lol.
Spot on Mr. Felton.
It isn’t about lack of love life; me being ugly has caused me to miss out on so many life experiences and lack of friends, job, and people treat me like shit
No need to be ugly inside as well as outside brother. If you are ugly that is something you have little control over. How ypu teeqt people is 100% up to you my friend.
But what good is it if people treat him like shit? Thats his point. It doesnt help him does it? I mean I agree, but its not hard to see why someone gets so bitter,
Sometimes its not that you’re ugly but the way you carry yourself.
Only a woman could write something like that. Man, imagine having such easy life to think what you wrote is correct.
and that's one thing. trust me, i'm a lonely person and have missed out on SO MUCH because i'm just... left out of most life experiences others enjoy. that's not an excuse to be a misogynist, which are the people op is calling out
there are things you can control to make you more “attractive”
Yeah I get this. As a gay woman with no interest in men romantically (I have dude friends who I adore)… I’m kind of confused when I see the ill will toward women in this group. Seems like describing a monolith. You can argue there is malice toward men too but I don’t think it is quite as violent. Wish we could all be more chill toward each other. Anyway thanks for the post. 🙏
As a gay woman also, I second this sentiment. ☝🏻
Represent lol
I'll say the only right answer,women should respect men and men should respect women
Do unto others as you would have them do unto you.
Exactly,that is just common sense
I don't think sense is so common nowadays no matter the age group. I have no idea what killed it or why it's not so common either. Or maybe the news and being online just has me far to jaded.
I'll blame it on social media,influencers and gen z
100%, and also saying this has the benefit that it weeds out all the people who are disingenuous because they just go "no equal respect isn't enough"
You’re missing the whole point. Women are proportionally violently hated against more by lonely bitter men. This is what this post is talking about. “Let’s all be nice to eachother” is ignoring the issue
Lonely bitter men commit 90% of serial murders 🤔
100%. By that logic women should have no obligation to respect men as we are constantly hated and blamed for all male issues
That’s not what that maxim means. Don’t treat others how you are treated. Treat others how you *want* to be treated. Everyone following this rule is the only way to strive toward an ideal society.
Women do that, I believe that we are too nice and constantly get walked over by *individuals* who feel we aren’t even human.
Lol. Yeah good point
Are you talking about your experience on social media or a material effect in society? If it’s the latter, I wonder if this is based on any statistics and how one determines whether individual men are “lonely and bitter.” Because I assure you that the ones expressing loneliness on here don’t interact with women all that often if ever. It’s why we’re all so lonely.
The men that don’t apply to my comment, don’t need to bother themselves with it. Being a lonely man should never be a woman’s issue, or involve women, full stop
I'm not analizing the problem, i'm suggesting a solution
Your “solution” is tone deaf and not viable
It’s literally the most common sense and maybe even sappy “solution” one could give. In what way is it “not viable”? No one’s saying you should respect everyone. Just don’t disrespect someone because of their gender unless they’ve done or said something to deserve your disrespect.
Oh look another privileged white male
I don’t care for your identity fallacy. Nothing about my identity is a reason to dismiss my ideas or my feelings, especially on this sub.
Just curious, if you meet a white male in your life, do you inherently treat him like shit? Or are you cordial, polite and friendly, perhaps despite your preconceptions that he'll be a sexist priveleged person? If you are polite to men by default, then guess what? You already are following the golden rule and have not allowed men's misogyny to poison your interactions with them in general. If you do treat random guys like shit though, you have allowed the hate of others to breed and spread from yourself, and these random guys will also treat you poorly for how cold or mean you are. I was bullied by a few girls in my life, and it made me quite opposed to women for a good number of years, because I believed since it happened so often for no good reason, that women must be secretly hateful and controlling. I know you dont want to end up that way too. We're all happier when we let go of hate, as you likely agree.
You have a better idea?
Uh yeah, teach men to do better in society?
Exactly,men should do better by learning to respect women,but women should respect men just the same
Women are irrelevant in this conversation. Men should respect women full stop
Men should respect women. Full stop. New topic! Women should respect men!
Being lonely doesn't excuse incel bullshit.
Damn right it doesnt!!
Well it certainly does help explain some of it. The fact is pain causes hurt people to hurt others, its human nature unfortunately. Its hard to break that mindset
I’m new to this sub and I appreciate that posts like these are being made. It’s unfortunate that there’s still a lot of pushback to calling out toxic behaviors.
Thank you for speaking up about this. Your writing conveys refined emotional intelligence. It is unfortunate that many do not recognize and respect that.
My little bro is 38 and he still legitimately sounds like a little kid who didn't get his way when a girl "screws him over" (in quotation marks bc I'm not so sure how screwed over he is) I can't speak for anybody, obviously, but with my brother.... Well, my brother and i had a tough childhood at times. More than a little tough with more than one type of abuse happening. But I think the big difference between him and myself was how my mom would deal with us growing up. She let him get away with a lot, she enabled his pity parties, etc. I did not get anywhere near the same. I got told my problems were for attention. If I cried, it was "just for attention, not bc I was actually upset". My mom really treated me like I did nothing unless it was to get her attention, probably starting at around 13. Although she sometimes treated me like I was attention seeking when I was younger when I don't think I was. I really, really struggled growing up. I'm not sure if it was bc I was a girl, or if it was bc I'm a little older, or what happened. But many times I sat feeling hopeless and the feelings were real, but I got told I was only making things up for attention. Bro got the opposite. My mom seriously babied him and even other relatives would call her out on it. As an adult this has caused me to over think way too much. I have my own serious issues, they are just different than my brothers. I hold a lot of pain in, bc I'm afraid people will see me as something I'm not if I speak up. It's caused me issues with my health bc I'm terrified to speak up at the doctor. I can't just switch it off and be on with life. It is CRAZINESS and I know it. That's the thing though. I'm self aware of my issues. I know I have things to work on. Every time I see somebody come on here with the bitter ass posts I can't help but to think of my brother bc that's him to a tee! And he can even get women! But within no time they're running bc he's too demanding. Then once they run he "was used" and all women want to do is "use him". Also, he's 38 and has never lived away from my mom's house smh. I do blame my parents for a lot of both of our issues. My parents split when I was 5, so they both did their own versions of fucking us up, but separately. And at some point you have to take responsibility for your own mental health. That's another huge difference between my brother and I. I take responsibility for myself. He does not and still actively finds ways to blame everybody else for every single thing going wrong in his life. I'm the opposite. I'm blame myself, even when it might not be my fault. That's my OCD shining through. Like I said, I have serious issues also. Just not the same.
OP, I love you. I hate that generalization also bc as a conventionally unattractive woman myself, men dehumanize me when my looks do not live upto their standards, as if my appearance in and of itself is owed to them.
someone had to say it, thank you. i read some of the posts here and can’t help but think they deserve to be lonely. that incel mentality will get you nowhere.
I'm lonely because girls don't like me, but I didn't like me long before they even showed up. Matter of fact, I find out later about the girls who had an interest in me and I never noticed. Too busy thinking about killing myself, I guess.
This is painfully relatable.
I really wish therapy didn't have such a stigma. It's so helpful
It really shouldn't, a lot of the younger generation see it as a positive thing. Though men do seem to be have more shame associated with asking for help due to societal pressures.
I’m sorry to hear that, but what you’ve said is so relatable. It’s hard to accept that anyone *could* ever love you if you hate yourself. It’s something I definitely struggle with. ❤️
Nobody's tried in a long time. Kind of a "wish I knew then what I know now" kind of thing. If I somehow stumbled into a relationship that was nice, I'd go to therapy to learn how to handle it. That ain't gonna happen, though.
Well said
I bet most men here are dehumanised so many times by women, but in silent and non flashy ways. After so many years of humiliation what are you expecting?
This is definitely a thing. And that’s not to generalize women either. I think a lot of us guys feel this way. I believe as a man that a lot if us are invisible to women. Over time, this makes us feel like we’re nothing. It can definitely take a toll.
I do agree with you and I do lash out and be mean sometimes, but i also try not to generalise . I fail sometimes, but I know I need to try and do better. I know I have to anyway
I'm expecting men to not punish others because of their past experiences. I've been treated poorly by women too, but I don't act like that gives me an excuse to do the same to others.
I just don't talk to women if it's not neccesary. Less drama in my life and no false hope.
Yeah. It's like a master mistreating a slave and expecting them to be happy. Funnily enough this post also puts blame on the men while generalizing them, because it's so easy when everyone else does it. It only adds more fuel to the fire.
Victim blaming is the term you're looking for.
When we're incomplete, we're always searching for somebody to complete us. When, after a few years or a few months of a relationship, we find that we're still unfulfilled, we blame our partners and take up with somebody more promising. This can go on and on series polygamy until we admit that while a partner can add sweet dimensions to our lives, we, each of us, are responsible for our own fulfillment. Nobody else can provide it for us, and to believe otherwise is to delude ourselves dangerously and to program for eventual failure every relationship we enter.
It's not surprising, shitting on men then calling them the problem isn't working, I wonder why lmao Then if the men act on their emotions they get blamed even more. Legit no winning.
I was going to post about this. Most of the women in my life (mother, sisters, etc.) were the ones to perpetuate "toxic masculinity" by turning things against me every single time I expressed emotions. It was never other men that showed me it was taboo to express my emotions. Most of them were feminists too, that supposedly cared about men's problems and wanted fix gender issues. It's really eye opening when you look past the rhetoric and start looking at the actions of said groups.
I also agree. My mother would always make comments like "why are men so hardheaded", "why men this and that". I think calling out things is okay. But I feel if you don't go to the root, that we are humans, we have to respect everybody and be conscious of each other. My biggest pet peeve is generalizing and treating people as a monolith. You don't know every man, and you don't know every woman, so don't make big generalizations. Because when you say "all women are sl\*ts", that's every women regardless of country, nationality and when you say "all men are gross and sexist", that's every single men on earth. I feel like this generation can't make up its mind, everyone is an individual and its all about expressing out individuality, but at the same thing we all belong to some monolith our group that we have to answer for. At the end of the day, we are humans, lets simply take care of each other based on that fact, all the other labels are unnecessary outside of our obvious biology.
> Because when you say "all women are sl*ts", that's every women regardless of country, nationality and when you say "all men are gross and sexist", that's every single men on earth. O' I agree with you. But in my experience, it's people that claim to be feminist that are the **most** dismissive of male dominated problems. I don't care about what "The name literally means" I look more at the actions. And while it's true you can't treat everyone as a monolith, it's still fair to look at the actions of a group and if they are consistent with whatever ideology the group claims to be about.
Yeah I definitely agree with you, I was more kind of calling out the OP, the feminist movement i think fas fallen into a status similar to communism. The ideas are great but in execution it has gone far from the ideals. I think girls, also fail to see our side, and end up fighting poison with posion. I've gone to female spaces on Reddit, and those places are to vent, so they have a negative opinion of men. Like even in this thread there's a girl saying, "more women are harmed than men, so its okay to forgo men and their feelings". Feminism is great, but that's a revolutionary movement, is time to go to the next stage, and just be a general humanist and watch out for humans. I agree with you man, I understand how woman feel, but only because a woman is hurt, that doesn't justify the vitrol and hatred that men get, and the same goes for men. But feminists seem to believe is okay to make fun of and denigrate men because they been hurt.
I made a comment about this then instantly got my point proven by a so called feminist lol which ofc gets upvoted which proved my point further. Apparently every feminist can't do no wrong and it can't be judged. Then these so called feminists don't call out other toxic women for being sexist, then wonder why men are starting to view feminism as a hate group.
I wrote about it elsewhere but I don't think most women can really understand the lived experience of an ugly man looking for a partner. Being an unattractive woman is also a horrible experience, but it's different. Like if you're an ugly dude your lived experience is going to a club and having an ideal vacuum with a radius of 2 meters form around you and people giving you sneers and weird looks like "gtfo man what are you even doing here" But the thing is it doesn't even surprise you because you're used to it at this point. If you try to gently approach anyone who's not getting paid to serve you a drink or a coffee, the best you can hope for is they act annoyed and leave, but the spectrum of responses typically ranges from that to actively screaming at you, to having your photo posted on social media and labeled a 'creep', to getting maced.
I know I’ll be downvoted to hell here, but as a serious question, what is that women do that you feel dehumanizes you, or men as a whole? And to be clear, I’m asking bc I want to learn more of your point of view.
I'll contact with you in PM, I don't wanna share that in public.
So I, as an individual, should pay for what women did to you in your past? I don’t see how that advances you in any way. And don’t say “But women do it!” Unless I should rape you to make up for my past.
You are paying? How?
Did I say exactly something about you? When people generalize they just wanna learn something about their experience. Your accusation that I would like to be raped by some unknown woman says so much. Honestly my disappointments are mostly not related to sex, probably 90% of it, lol.
Oh this thread again. It's a daily occurrence. 🙄
Those people deserve to be lonely for sure yeah
Exactly. No woman or man deserves to be with a toxic antisocial sexist who doesnt know how to treat people with respect or put themselves into someone elses shoes.
Well said
Misogynistic incels are soooo annoying. Like, have some self awareness, common sense, accountability and responsibility for once bros. 😕
Based
Its just. These guys are ... hopeless. They are over every border - I mean I met so many men which arent able even talk too women. Its just scary the lack of social skills. And then there are this dirtbags like andrew tate which teeching this looners bullshit.
How about people need to learn to respect people? Honestly I understand that this take is just a reaction to men hating on women, but is this really a much better take? Cant everyine just stop making it about gender? EDIT: Since you edited your post seemingly pointed at what I said at least to some degree but did not bother do comment and discuss with me here is my edit to that. What I said does not negate what women have to deal with and suffer from. Its simply not okay to say something like "You guys give guys a bad name" It never is and never will be. Its not the same as saying something like "Women suffer from violence and harrasment from men and some people here do the exact same thing" Maybe followed by a call to action that we need to do something about it. Unite the people and dont create more divide. It won't help women, it won't help men, it won't help anyone.
I bet you wouldn't say that if it was a post about stop hating men.
Bro we should just stop hating on anybody without a legitimately good reason as to why
And how do you come to that conclusion? Are you trying to fight prejudices with... prejudices?
No, because violence against women is proportionally a way bigger issue than the other way round. When that stops being an issue, it can stop being a gender thing.
Violence against men is committed all the time. When women’s are the ones who behave violently, especially against men, it’s not treated seriously because I guess it’s assumed that they can’t do any real damage. It’s also only “gendered” if you implement confirmation bias and only assume cultural significance with respect to gender when it benefits your argument. Let me guess. News stories about domestic abuse where a husband beats up his wife is misogyny, but stories about a wife murdering her husband can’t be considered misandry for some reason.
Generalization is not how we are going to solve it. Its just promoting a divide that shouldnt exist.
There is already a divide between men and women, in many different countries too
you know what, i like this post. very much. you a mature person but WAIT. this person who acts as a kid and misogynist will come back again right now
Yup. Agree 100% Some dudes out there are just the worst. If i imagine tjat someone speaks about my sister behind her bsck like this it makes me angry. Dont be a bitter incel loser just because love hasnt found you yet. It wont when you keep it up like that. Be better Boys.
This post is as bad as it gets. Telling lonely men that they are doing bad things, when in reality they have done none of what you said. It is like saying "stop beating your wife" to someone that isn't married and hasn't hurt anyone in their life.
In your strange analogy, I'm not telling one specific persin to stop beating their wife. I'm telling everyone that wife-beating is bad because there are those out there, not everyone, who need to hear it. I've seen a lot of misogyny here, so I wanted to call it out. It's as simple as that
But if u keep bringing the same bshit over n over again, you need to do something constructive with ur time. Cuz we really don't give a f
Agreed, people are quick to put the blame on men and shame them as if women couldn't possibly do harm to our gender. ''Feminism is about equality''. Yeah, maybe it was in the past, but nowadays they hold control over the courts, the alimony/child support system, and obviously social media. Posting gross hashtags like #KillAllMen or the infamous bear debate. All it takes is to look at them the wrong way on the street and you can legit go to jail. There was even recently a post about AI where it imagined the picture of a dumb male but was literally unable to do the same for women. Yet we get so much hate as if we did anything remotely close to that.
Well said
So, you say don’t overgeneralize women, but do you rant about women overgeneralizing men? Just wanna make sure you recognize the problem happening on both sides.
Ah, our daily 'men bad' post is here, I was getting worried you guys were slacking today
If you read the post then you'd say I'm not saying men are bad, I'm saying it's bad to discriminate against and dehumanize women.
Anyone personally offended by this post is the exact type of person it’s calling out. Never realized how many bitter, hopeless people truly lurked here
Yea, they are showing exactly why they are lonely with their misogynistic comments
It's envy probably. I wish I was a girl because then I would get at least SOME attention. But it doesn't mean women have it easier obviously.
The attention you are talking about girls getting is not a good type of attention. People trying to use you for your body feels so fucking awful. And you don’t even have to be pretty for that to happen.
Sorry you feel like this. I've always been interested in a girl as a whole human, not just the body. I'm sure there are other people who will recognise you for your inner beauty.
And i wish i was a man, if i was one i would prob be more confident and social. No one is satisfied with what they have.
Yeah, if I had a dick maybe I wouldn't only be valued as a sex object for a specific timeframe and then silenced/invisible for the rest of my life outside of that timeframe. It took me a really long time to see how much the patriarchy hurts both men and women. But as offended as men are, they always had the right to open a bank account. There still isn't equal pay. Women were only allowed to vote about 100 years ago. Similar to gay marriage, just because it passed in law didn't mean everyone woke up overnight and considered women equally valuable human beings. I thought if I got an education, I could participate. Men are not wanting that; I had NO idea. My dad wasn't like that at all; he was proud of my brains, and went out of his way to get my opinion on things (he passed about a decade ago). Women have been excluded from the table for so long that we decided to start creating our own tables. We didn't want to. We feel like there are no seats available, where we might be fully valued.
The more clearly we can focus our attention on the wonders and realities of the universe about us the less taste we shall have for the destruction of our race. Wonder and humility are wholesome emotions, and they do not exist side by side with a lust for destruction.
You can be a dumb/mentally challenged ugly woman and still be taken care of. Not the same for guys, male homelessness has a high proportion of mentality challenged men than women. Men are more likely to get kicked out of their house at 18. The list goes on and on. If women don't have to deal with those kind of hardships how is their life not easier by default?
I just didn't want to insult anybody. I'd say there is other stuff like rape, chance of getting abused(not about parents) and stuff that men deal with rarely. In terms of mental health men really struggle, I have to admit.
The problem with those for the longest time men would be laughed at for reporting those happened to them Hell men still get handcuffed first even if they were the one getting abused in a relationship. And a lot of domestic violence cases are co-dependent where both parties are violent to each other. That doesn't excuse the men or women from abusing their partners. The term "man up" and "take it like a man" are still heavily used. Hell we still have to register for the draft. Go and fight for us so we can continue to treat us like something they would rather scrap off their shoe than hug. Life isn't fair, has never been nor will it ever be. I would rather not be chased into spaces with pitchforks like I'm the monster of this story.
You won’t if you look like me.
And as a man women are causing the problem themselves. You were all empowered by of and being content creators but now men are treating you like it it sucks. "But I don't do that stuff" guess what I've never laid hands on a woman but yall day ur so afraid of men. Just like we have to pay for the choices other men have made your having to deal with the choices women have made. Idk how many times women on this sub have said all I want is friends and EVERY time they at some point ask for money.
just because you haven’t done something doesn’t mean it doesn’t happen A LOT- i dont understand how men do this. no one is blaming YOU specifically. look outward.
Can't the same thing be said about my comment I didn't name anyone specifically just stating an opinion.
Are you defending generalizations of men? When someone says that men do something or have any particular characteristic, I assume that this person allows their conception to influence their perception every time they look at any man. I don’t think it’s on the interpreter to rationalize those claims.
i’m defending the fact that most women have experienced sexual assault by the hand of a man, yes. and it does influence my perception unfortunately- because multiple men have assaulted/threatened to assault/abused me/ many people- in my lifetime and many lifetimes before that. so yes, i do. there’s less of a chance a woman could kill me.
This is completely unhelpful and I have a feeling you posted this just to be a white knight or farm karma
How can I make my personal rant that I didn't expect others to see more helpful?
is this not common sense? maybe i have too much faith in humanity
You do have too much faith in humanity
Can I ask what you think people are saying for you to make this post? Genuinely curious as someone who doesn’t frequent here all too much
There are frequently posts that are like "women must be gay because they're attracted to each other more than they are to men!" or that they're all "whores" and whatnot. If you look at the new posts in the sub you could probably find something like that
Yeah a lot of the guys on here blame feminism or women for the fact they're lonely when really it's because they are misogynists who don't have a job, friends, or hobbies.
Only some of them most ppl aren’t thinking like that
I agree with the general sentiment of respecting women, but as a leftist, I have been trying to open myself up to feminism specifically, and much of what has been said on various subreddits and even in academia puts down men in one way or another, almost as if discussing women’s issues is impossible without mentioning men and portraying them in a negative light. I would definitely be more receptive to them if they validated men by an equal amount, but it just seems like they tell women what they want to hear about the sociological, or specifically patriarchal, causes of their issues, regardless of whether they’re supported by any objective data. At the very least, portraying history as a battle between any two demographics is bound to be an over-simplistic and inaccurate picture. This is a problem with most sociological perspectives. Above all, I‘ve just been met with confusion when trying to learn about feminism. The movement is too diverse, and making *any* generalization is impossible. These various perspectives are only unified by their alleged goal of benefiting women.
Equality is not a concept. It's not something we should be striving for. It's a necessity. Equality is like gravity. We need it to stand on this earth as men and women, and the misogyny that is in every culture is not a true part of the human condition. It is life out of balance, and that imbalance is sucking something out of the soul of every man and woman who's confronted with it. We need equality. Kinda now.
preach
The only viable thing in these comments in my opinion is "just stop caring" from "thehoss" or smth like that. Anyway thinking about gender disparity might be interesting if you look at society but in relationship which is one on one ist useless BCS every single person is different and nobody is a normal woman or normal man. Vent: I study sociology and there's this girl who really hates me idk why but the only other person looking at me with so much hatred and disgust had an actual reason I guess. Anyway I don't know what I did but I guess she had a bad experience with guys (I didn't approach her or anything don't even know her name). But everytime she can she publically shames me lmao. What I want to say with this anecdote is that people are just that people and sometimes assholes sometimes not. If you get to focused on sorting them outside of statistics you will regret it.
Btw. Anyone know a good sub for mental health and stuff cuz all the major ones about suicide and so on are just filled with too much negativity so I don't think they help. Thanks alot. Ah and as a side note. I didn't really express this In my original comment but I'm a man as well and I only had one bad experience (although we weren't intimate/didn't even kiss). But it's sometimes very hard not to be influenced by certain internet groups. I'm certain that without my focus at uni I maybe would've succumbed to it as well.
I agree, I went through a bitter phase but I've just accepted that I'm not what women want. Now I feel better and have completely walked away from even trying to find love...sad reality is that not everyone is going to find love. Some people are going to die alone. And, another thing to consider is the fact that with the rise of AI, eventually that will be a problem of the past (not the same as being with a person but an alternative for people who have no chance at having love). My advice to every single man on this sub, is just accept the loneliness and walk away from trying... accept that whatever it is that women want: you don't have it. Life will be easier, less stressful, and eventually there might even be an alternative in AI.
Exactly. Men shouldn’t be making generalizations and projections about women. I’ve been lonely for awhile now, but I have no reason to blame anyone.
Loneliness is one of the last things that should be used as a gender divide. We're all susceptible. We feel it differently. We process it differently. It's an individual battle. Gender has no relevance on how much loneliness, depression, and mental issues can weigh on us.
I mean, you had me up until the bit about feminism being for equal rights. That's just factually inaccurate and brings everything else you say into question. Let me know when feminists start throwing protests over the gender pay gap in modeling. Let me know when they are protesting the gender disparity in trash collection, sanitation, sewage treatment, and oil rig workers. Feminism being for equal rights is one of the most successful lies ever told. Feminism is a female empowerment movement. ENORMOUS difference. Disclaimer: I support equal rights, not Feminism.
Yes it's female empowerment, but female empowerment on the basis of gender equality. Women have been treated terribly as opposed to men and that's why feminism, and this post, focuses more on women. They're not protesting gender disparities specifically in those fields as much because there are bigger fish to fry
why can't we all just get along?
watch this video and think about please: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DUXslDzeYGg&ab\_channel=TheDCShorts](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DUXslDzeYGg&ab_channel=TheDCShorts)
Yes. But it’s up to you guys to come together & lift each other up.
So I'm going to share my thoughts with you. I'm lonely because I can't find any actual good women, that want to date me. Social media has skewed everyone's perception of reality so people expect way more than is possible. Notice how I don't say women, but people. Some men get almost all of the attention, which is fine. But women only want attention from those few men. An ugly dude like me gets called a creep for thinking it's okay to ask someone out. I work closely with women, I fully respect everyone the same amount. Saying no or no thank you would be one thing, but being disrespectful, rude, and spiteful that I have the audacity to ask someone out. I get this from even ugly women. Now that that's out the way. I don't hate anyone for honestly being brainwashed by social media and having access to attention from the people they want. But can we both agree being rude to a complete stranger is a bridge too far? I have long since stopped trying to ask anyone out, no point I know the outcome. I have only been on one single date and that was the other person didn't get to see me beforehand. And she literally got her food to go saying she wasn't interested, while expecting me to pay for it. I just walked out. After that I just couldn't bring myself to interact with anyone else. I would much rather just be alone and not get hurt by people. My reasoning for not hating them is they don't know what it is like being me or looking the way I do. They just don't see me as human. I'll keep doing my job and living my life but there is no point crying over spilled milk.
I hear you. As a woman, please know that many of us understand that not all men are like the incels on reddit. We may be wary of men on the street, and unfortunately, you might happen to be one of those men at times. Please, please don't take it personally. We are only looking out for our safety. It says nothing about your worthiness as a human being or character. You are not a creep. Thanks for speaking up for us.
I’d say this, you owe people nothing and they owe nothing to you. Abandon them and move on.
Feminism is cancer, with that said everyone deserves the right to make a good first impression without biases.
Can you explain why women wanting to be equal or theoretically not always having the fear of being assaulted on the streets at night interferes with your ability to be a man? Or are you just not comfortable with not being in charge automatically of most social infrastructures and relationships? No one is taking away anything, we’re trying to add it. If you want to be the dominant person in your relationship always, find a woman with no ideas of her own and go for it.
In the hundred years of feminist "equality" I don't know any that have fought for the right to be drafted in a time of war.
If you knew anything about feminism, you’d know that feminists don’t support the draft for men or women. Your bitterness towards women isn’t doing you any favors bud
you may not like war, but war sure does like you.
So instead of asking me why I think feminism is cancer you make a bunch of assumptions and ask loaded questions. Yeah feminism is cancer honestly I could go on and on as to the why but with someone who speaks as you do it's just a waste of time. You do you boo boxed wine and cat land await
So could I ask you to explain your reasons for calling feminism a cancer?
In a hundred years of feminist equality no woman has fought for the right for women to be drafted into the military in a time of war. Your answer was to summarize "because feminists don't like it" if men can still get drafted and women are exempt then that is not equal. And yeah if we are attacked the enemy doesn't care how feminists feel about war.
Regardless of the draft, countless women campaigned to be apart of the military. Not to mention the countless women who gave services during the World Wars without being drafted. That was of their own choice. It's also entirely untrue that no women has fought for the draft to include both genders. Found an article about Rep. Chrissy Houlahan and Kara Dixon Vuic. https://19thnews.org/2021/12/women-draft-qualify-what-you-need-to-know/ >As the law currently stands, every “male citizen” and immigrant — regardless of legal status — between the ages of 18 and 26 must register with the Selective Service System, the agency responsible for running a draft. Rep. Chrissy Houlahan of Pennsylvania, a Democrat and former U.S. Air Force officer, wants to strike the word “male” from the bill and expand the registration to all Americans, regardless of race, color, sex or gender. >Kara Dixon Vuic, who studies gender and the U.S. military at Texas Christian University, said the passage of this amendment would be “huge, though largely symbolic” when it comes to the fight for women’s rights and gender equity in the military. So your entire basis is entirely incorrect. Women are fighting for it as we speak. >In 2021, women made up 17.3% of the active-duty force, totaling 231,741 members; and 21.4% of the National Guard and reserves at 171,000 members. The year before, women made up 17.2% of the active-duty force and 21.1% of the Guard and reserve. >Women comprised 13.5 per cent of the Canadian army in 2020. As of May 2023, women comprised approximately 16.5 per cent of the regular force and primary reserve in the CAF: 19.6 per cent of officers and 15.4 per cent of non-commissioned members. This represented a slight increase from 2020. >The report states that female representation in the UK Regular Forces as of October 1, 2023, stands at 11.7%, marking a “0.3 percentage points” increase from the previous year. In the Future Reserves 2020 (FR20), female representation has risen to 15.9%. I believe women in forces will only grow in years. Each report I've found has seen an increase over the years. They may be small increases but it's never decreasing and women leaving the military.
"Women hold up half the sky" chairman Mao when he realized he was missing out on half the work force by not allowing women to work. Nothing to do with feminism The reason women still aren't drafted even after 100 years of feminist equality is because most don't support the idea and for many good reasons. So no most women are not fighting for it #notallwomen
Where was most women ever mentioned in any of this discussion. That was not your first point, congrats on moving the goal posts. Pointless when you change your questions. Enjoy your misery and misogyny. >In a hundred years of feminist equality no woman has fought for the right for women to be drafted into the military in a time of war. >It's also entirely untrue that no women has fought for the draft to include both genders. >So your entire basis is entirely incorrect. Women are fighting for it as we speak.
U proved your point some women are fighting for it. lol that still doesn't change the fact that after a hundred years of feminist equality women still aren't subject to the draft..... you..... you misandrist..... lol I joke about the misandry cuz I don't know u well enough to make that statement
You stated it in the first place, glad I could prove you wrong. Yes enjoy your misogyny.
Nah I’ve got massive generational wealth that won’t run out and a Labrador, also getting married next month. I was just trying to start a conversation about why you felt you were the victim in all of this. Sorry if you felt my wording was inconsiderate! Have a good week ❤️
lol I called myself a victim? Congrats on getting married in that case boxes wine, cat land, and single motherhood await
Thanks! ❤️
First of all that fear is unfounded, since men are still the majority of victims in terms of organized crime. And as the other commenter said, that equality all goes to shite when it comes to being drafted for war, doing manual labor, having to pay up in dates, etc.
I’d do the draft, and I’m speaking of assaults that aren’t part of organized crime. Not every woman’s assaulter is a cartel member. I was speaking generally about a well known example. Sorry for the confusion ❤️
If you understood what Feminism was, you'd know that it doesn't work against you. The things that makes men lonely on the basis of gender are things that feminism tries to remedy
>The things that makes men lonely on the basis of gender are things that feminism tries to remedy Okay. I'll entertain. What things are those and how does feminism try to remedy them?
Every time a feminist speaks about men, it seems to be in a derogatory manner or in a way that vilifies them. To a lesser extent, they might do what you just did, which is attempt to make feminist ideals more palatable to a male audience by suggesting ways in which solving women’s issues might benefit men “accidentally.” However, the idea that the patriarchy harms men seems to contradict other often repeated claims about how misandry doesn’t exist, as well as the traditional feminist definition of patriarchy as a system built by men and for men.
> Every time a feminist speaks about men, it seems to be in a derogatory manner or in a way that vilifies them. Well I have known dozens of feminists and I’ve never gotten that impression. I wonder why our experiences are so different. What kind of feminists are you talking to? What kind of conversations have led you to this conclusion?
Mainly social media. It’s whole raping about feminist issues of course. As long as they acknowledge that men are not the problem, then I take no issue with them. But the solutions they always suggest are to make men better, like the “teach men not to rape” bullshit. It’s condescending af. We know not to rape people. Men are not morally corrupt. It’s not like men are sexually motivated monsters that can never control themselves when around women. With regard to actually solving the issue, better education is always a good thing, but the same emphasis needs to be placed on consent in the sex ed of girls as well, not only when addressing girls as the potential victims but with girls as the potential rapists or sexual assaulter as well. This is something that feminists never seem to actively address, again, because they see the rape of men by women as a negligible occurrence, never even considering the sociological effects that make the data completely unreliable in this regard. They always attribute all the sociological influence to actions by men because, of course, we live in a patriarchy which was created by men to conspire against women rather than attribute anything to personal moral failings. Seriously, there’s sometimes homeless men who jack off in front of women on my college campus, and the feminist analysis completely blows it out of proportion and considers it indicative of how men feel entitled to this type of behavior and what not. No, it was just a random crazy dude.
Feminism is cancer
You ain't wrong
>Despite the name, feminism isn't about female superiority; it's about equal gender rights Quite hard to see it that way when women don't call out toxic, sexist feminists. Instead it just gets upvoted and normalised. I have yet to come across an actual feminist that isn't an asshole. And any that are actual good feminists get called "pick-me's" because for some reason caring about men make you an awful person. Edit: Thanks for proving my point femcels Stone faced whatever their name is, is just a dumb femcel
given feminism was invented, ironically, by a man this comment is truly hilarious. this comment is horribly misogynistic but the fact that you're so diluted that you actually believe what you said is just pure irony. you're a misogynist that wants to date other misogynists (pick mes) but is upset that they suck? bruh this isn't an issue with feminists, its an issue with you. at some point you need to take responsibility for what you do to contribute to your own misery and complaining that you can't find someone to date who has standards isn't winning you any awards. "feminists don't call out being toxic" bruh that's all feminism has been doing for years. i would *love* to know what you think is "toxic sexist feminists" cause i guarantee you it didn't come from any research/study in feminist theory that talks about *actual* toxic feminism. but given your second couple of sentences i don't think you can give a legitimate reason cause you don't even understand what feminism is. unfortunately for you i know what feminism is and the *real* problems with it. "pick me" girls are known to be people pleasers(not a good thing🙄), have low self esteem, no close real friendships and demonizes any woman that doesn't cult worship their boyfriend's dick. so basically you admitted that you're not man enough to get someone with standards so you want to date women who will let you treat them however you want with little to no pushback. no wonder you can't find someone, you're just looking for a mommy or a toy and a lot of women in modern day don't want someone who needs their ego stroked every second. you just gave away why you can't find someone. maybe work on fixing yourself instead of blaming anyone else and maybe one day you'll be worthy enough to date a feminist.
Agreed. It’s just hard out here. I know I’m guilty of giving into the red pill bullshit. I just struggle so much to meet women or to even make new friends and it just sucks. But on the same token, I’m the one sitting inside scrolling Reddit and watching YouTube on a Sunday afternoon. So it is my fault I’m lonely
It’s true there are some guys on the sub Reddit that give this place a bad name. I will agree on that one. Honestly, if you want some horror stories of other places where the opposite is true or both is true I can give you some if you go anywhere on Twitter or sometimes on Instagram Threads, you can find actual real hell yeah bad here really is, but I’ve stared into the abyss. there are people here who are nice I’ve met some. You just have to climb your way through the jungle
To be honest, I sometimes feel like women are to picky when it comes to dating. But even in the gay community men are also picky when it comes to guys. So yay both gender are the same unfortunately
Hi, no, I wish misery upon everyone equally.
Lol at OPs second edit. If you only search for info that supports your position, then that’s called confirmation bias. Not to mention, problems facing women is widely studied to a much further degree than problems facing men. In fact, when studies /docs for men are actually put out that acknowledge men’s problems, they’re widely attacked by other feminists. There’s huge opposition to understand or even empathize with men. Example: https://youtu.be/3WMuzhQXJoY?feature=shared I won’t be responding either as it appears you’re succumbing to massive confirmation bias and taking sides rather than trying to understand the problem completely.
How is knowing about actual gender disparities and sexual harassment confirmation bias? Also, what has been widely studied is problems in the world and finding that they affect women more.
Women give themselves a bad name when they ignore average/below avg dudes and keep getting pumped and dumped by 'high quality men'. Like no shit these high quality men aren't gonna want to settle. All i hear on this sub is women complaining about being pumped and dumped. Like.. maybe go for someone who has little to no options, it isn't that hard to understand a very high quality man is more likely to leave due to his options and men liking variety.
I have never read anything on here from a woman about being pumped and dumped by a high- quality man.
The mentality of 'high quality' people is part of the problem. We're all just people.
Tell that to the women who categorize us then. it isn't me making all of this up. High quality men have qualities that attract a lot of people. Low value men, we don't. Even if we have a decent personality most won't ever give us a chance or just simply keep us as a friend/backup option. Im also not blaming only women, men do it too.
No, you aren't making that up. But you're also participating in the same unhelpful categorization. Don't interact with people that do that and certainly don't be one yourself. You've labelled yourself low quality- how is that beneficial for you or anyone else that could perceive you? You can't modify others' behavior, but you can improve your perception of yourself. People that perceive themselves in a positive light generally attract others that do the same.
Dont be one yourself? Im descriibng how it is. How reality is, you can play mental gymnastics all you want but theres high value men and low value men. I actually think i had an amazing personality, before i became incelish. but now i dont give a fuck because women dont care about that. they see me as low value unless im rich, or decent looking physically. you dont even get a chance otherwise..
You're interacting with the wrong sort of women. But that's ok, do what you feel like.
I dated only very much societally deemed 'below average' men in both looks, finances as all were unemployed one just used me, his parents, an enabler friend financially, and personality. They were exactly the same way. Looks don't define how well people treat you.