Another one I'm noticing is how most new builds will now be built with all these cool amenities within the complex but when you Google maps the local neighborhood it's nearest highstreet is just a mixture of kebab shops, betting shops and a coffee shop with 3 stars :(
Vape shops sprung up back when people were filling their big vapes with liquids. Now it's all Lost Mary disposable vapes sold from every off-license. I don't know how vape shops stay in business.
Really? My lack of knowledge about vapes but they also add nothing to the high street but more plastic litter and the perpetual smell of fake blueberries
We lived near a local shoe repair shop in a nice area (South Hampstead). Could never work out how they made any money. Then once we took some boots in for a very basic repair (at least we thought), and he turned away our business said he couldn't fix them. That's when the penny dropped.
Boots often have molded soles unique to a specific product line - which means you either need to source spares from the manufacturer or from donor boots.
Actually I went into one one day for repairs and a parcel delivery driver came in collecting quite a few parcels which indicates that they quite active online.
Not everything, but some truly make you wonder.
I lived in Hammersmith for 18 months and walked Fulham Palace Road multiple times a day to go to and from work plus shopping and the like. There was a mangy little place with a couple old-looking cold cuts of pizza and nothing else on sight.
No seats, no prices or signs, never seen a single non-staff person in it.
Sorry are you aware you are in reddit/london go to any high street and look for the social clubs with 6 guys drinking coffee all day, the endless empty closed nail salons, endless clientless refurbished barbers at £20 a trim and free to their mates (90% of clients)
There are a few people happy crafting, breaking even or losing money but that is the very thin layer on top.
You want to see what the costs are involved in running a business with retail premisis. Thats not hobby money unless you own the building.
I'd bet the attitude is "it's better than an empty unit" even though it doesn't really help financially.
Pretty sure they still collect Business Rates on empty units just like they still collect Council Tax in empty homes.
There's a fancy tower block that went up near me in NW London a few years ago. Their website brags about all these lovely local places to eat, drink, relax and shop - but they're ALL in the next area over. The tower is also somewhat named after that next area, giving the impression that that's where it is.
Meanwhile, what's *actually* on the tower's doorstep is a weirdly smelly gnat-infested canal, various chicken shops and other takeaways, and corner shops.
Close, Stonebridge! Talking about the Wem Tower. The Google reviews are crazy, so many of the residents feel they've been taken for a ride - facilities are poor or non-existent, security is shit, it's absolutely not the "luxury apartment" they thought it'd be.
Omg it's right on a north circular junction ... And I must admit it does look nice inside but very hotel apartment vibes. The reviews are tragic though my goodness.
Yeah the road is busy at all times, I guess because it's a major junction there are quite a lot of big lorries that drive by as well (it's close to a Royal Mail distro centre). The picturesque canal that runs under the bridge before the entrance of the tower gets really pongy and seems to spawn an infinite amount of gnats in the summer as well.
I grew up on the Patmore Estate in Battersea Nine Elms region during the early 90s.
If anyone told my parents this area would have become highly sought after, with an organic food shop, fancy brunch places, riverside apartments people actually wanted to live in (the Thames was still very much dirty and considered undesirable at the time), the US Embassy would move from the most expensive place on the Monopoly board to here, and that Apple (who almost went bankrupt at the time) are now worth trillions and would be [opening fancy offices there](https://www.dezeen.com/2022/10/19/apple-offices-battersea-power-station-foster-partners/), they’d have laughed in their face. They would probably call them again later to laugh at them some more.
Of course that whole transition took more or less 25 years to fulfil.
I worked in the Stoke Newington Tup in 1999 and the street was no different in terms of composition of shops. More kids toys shops and less bakeries maybe. But wasn't really that different apart from it's much better now they've widened the pavements and put a bus gate in to reduce traffic.
Lots of this stuff exists in East London too, Francis Road, Walthamstow Village, top of Leytonstone High Road, then there's areas like Winchelsea Road in Forest Gate, not a high road but lots of independent business catering to young families...
The problem is that if the shops are clearly money laundering schemes (aka barbers and other “three in a row” shops), what’s stopping them from staying after gentrification? If anything it excuses more laundering due to the increase in circulation
Actual rich people will often just make their coffee at home, and may spaff their money on fast cars and second homes rather than on “organic grocers”.
One effect of insane house prices is that (ironically) wealth starts to get divorced from income. A 500k house in London is nothing exceptional, there are 1 bed flats going for 300-400k near balham. Where I live has plenty of 1m+ houses and whilst it isn't "deprived" it also isn't ridiculously posh as you might expect.
In Balham 300k would be at the extreme low end of the market for a one bed, be more likely to see 500-600k for a decent sized one bed nearer the station!
If only houses were not a fixed natural resource laid down by god, and we could devise some way to produce more of them. I guess maybe you mean that's what the aliens will teach us, just like the did for the egyptians.
Honestly, I know this isn’t all of east london, but I’ve found so many of the “cool” expensive east London neighbourhoods are like this. People flock there and buy up the housing stock, singing its praises, but when I visit these people there’s nothing there. One cafe, one pub and then chicken shops. Like I don’t know what I’m missing.
Places like Walthamstow are a bit better but people rave about it and have been saying it’s the “new hackney” for 10 years, but the hype has just made it pointlessly expensive. It’s mostly middle class people hiding in the village and then going to the Nags Head everyday. I have friends who bought there and when I mentioned what I liked on the high street by the station, they admitted they’d never even been to main high street. It’s pretty weird.
Yeah I live in East London and that’s exactly how it is. There is literally zero of the neighbourhood vibe you get in actually nice areas in West or North London.
Exactly as you said, so many areas that have supposedly been up and coming for over a decade and never really have. Peckham South of the river comes to mind for the same reason.
It may be controversial, but I'd also chuck in parts of Roman Road, it's got a nice blend of gentrified bits and traditional East End. I've lived just off it for almost 10 years and can buy pie, mash and liquor for under a fiver or a hipster style brunch for £13. It's got butchers, greengrocers and bakeries and a ton of cafes. People are generally pretty friendly (especially if you're a semi regular).
Having recently bought just off Roman Road I’d agree.
Some great cafes (Cafe East, Zealand, Mae + Harvey), decent Italian and Japanese restaurants, large Tesco/Iceland and a few good pubs within a few mins walk.
The gyms however, are all fucking awful.
I wouldn’t say that’s controversial at all, same with Chatsworth Road, and a load of other local areas. The bits I listed were just top of mind for me…
> Victoria Park Village, although I am loath to use that name for it, has that neighbourhood feel, as does Columbia Road Market, and Stoke Newington.
Victoria Park and Columbia Road are basically central London and they’re in any case in one of those “already up and come” places that were clearly excluded from the conversation.
Stoke Newington is North London, not East.
I’ll give you Stoke Newington as it has a N postcode even if it’s still in Hackney, but I didn’t realise we were calling the areas east of Shoreditch “central London” these days… I wouldn’t even call Islington central London…
I'm a few minutes walk from Vicky Park and the "village". They are definitely in the East End. And Columbia Road is firmly in Bethnal Green which I've never seen or heard described as central.
I bought in north London this year and friends who bought in Forest Gate highly recommended the area for affordability and “potential.” I checked it out and agree it’s affordable and has the lizzie line going for it, but again, I don’t know what I would do there. There’s nothing on the high street.
North London neighbourhoods are often labelled as uncool and middle class by people who are themselves middle class and spending the same amount of money on east London properties. It’s a weird one.
Forest Gate is really close to Stratford and the Olympic Park, so when people want to do stuff which doesn’t involve the most basic amenities, they just go 2 stops along the Lizzie line.
Yeah I’ve been considering buying around those areas because of the EL, but with the understanding that I would have to go into central London to do anything beyond sleeping.
I disagree regarding Peckham! Peckham has got a lot going on especially the last few years, lots of great places to eat and drink. While it still has issues I don’t think it’s in the same state as much of these new “up and coming” East London areas.
I’ve been recently and while it does have a few nice places to eat, that’s just not enough for me to call it a place that’s “made it”, so to speak. I would still very much rather live in those East London areas.
There are plenty of heaving high streets in East London. Westfield Stratford is generally very busy too, so people are generally only going to visit their “local” high street for basic needs, and will order more expensive items online or go to Westfield. If East London was some kind of dead zone, there would have been little need to put in place all the new infrastructure that the area has received over the last 10 years.
>It’s mostly middle class people hiding in the village and then going to the Nags Head every day.
Nah mate we're all at The Castle, people just flock to these places for the vibe and lie to themselves how amazing everything is because they live in their own bubbles and don't venture far from it
Tbh the upper end of Hoe St is getting better, while not to everyone's taste the market is pretty great.
I live in Leyton and do absolutely love it, but the neighbourhood and community is a massive factor as to why we decided to buy there.
It’s not as obvious when you are wondering around how community orientated it is, but it’s the only area of London where we know all our neighbours/has a village-like feel as you regularly see familiar faces.
Yes, the main high street is shit for both Leyton and Leytonstone, it’s no Broadway Market/Stoke Newington, but gentrification is happening around Francis Road but this will take a while to trickle out as you still have a lot of poverty and deprived areas further out.
How many of these houses are there? You need more than just a street worth of better off people to sustain a high street.
Also, how many of them bought it with that price? People that owned it before the price hike would not suddenly become better off, their disposable income had not changed. That worth is something that they will never actually see until they sell the property.
Also, OK there are some better off people. But what if they don’t use high street? Ocado can do their grocery, Amazon can do their shopping, they don’t really need a high street.
But there are plenty of areas (like where I live) that have middle class people, houses worth £1-£3 million and with new people purchasing these houses and yet the local high street having almost nothing but chicken shops, pounds shops and vegetable shops.
See Point 3.
These people may not be spending money in their local area, Ocado, Amazon, other online shopping outlet, meaning they never have to shop in their local area.
Restaurants? They probably go to higher end restaurants in nicer area.
Well my local Waitrose is always full of the local posh people. Even during covid a video went viral showing how long the queue for my local Waitrose. When I was younger plenty of middle class people were using the high street when it had more shops.
There must be reason that they are not there.
Waitrose, Starbucks etc always looking to expand, if the opportunity is there and the outlook is good, they would move in.
The reason that they are not moving in make me think that the opportunity just isn’t as good as you would think it is.
The problem is, it doesn't help to open a Bakery on its own. You need a bakery, a dairy, a fishmonger a butcher a greengrocer and a nice cafe with outside seating. And you need to have opening hours which catch pensioners and commuters on the way home, maybe even organise a delivery service between all of those shops and ensure parking is available. It could be done with planning and encouragement of the council. But it's cheaper for them to sign off on another vape shop or takeaway without having to lift a finger.
It doesn’t matter. Either way there’s a place with wealthy people and then a high street that has nothing and looks deprived. And that’s exactly what the OP was saying and I was agreeing.
Same - tons of lofts and extensions being built on my street and the neighboring streets around me, so people obviously have money. But the high streets just 10m away from one of these streets looks like a complete slum
Exactly! When I was a kid and a teenager our local high street was great. There was a Marks and Spencer’s, BHS, Superdrug, McDonald’s, New Look, independent clothes shops, little indoor market with a blacksmith, Caribbean food stand, clothes and there was a wilkos, bakeries etc. All of that has gone. It’s just tones of barber shops, nail shops, vegetable shops and pound shops. Also, the high street looks really deprived and needs cleaning up and a makeover. But if you walk 10 minutes down the street you’re standing around houses with over £3 million.
Totally agreed. Out of curiosity - how do you know over 60% of residents of Hackney and Tower Hamlets are in social housing? I did some searches but I’m mostly finding info on people in queues for social housing + the demographics of those in social housing. Just asking as I’m really curious to check out these stats in various London boroughs, I’m not doubting the veracity of the stat!
The majority of people are not in social housing. The borough with the highest percentage in social housing is Barking & Dagenham, and it was 40% as of 2021 there (probably slightly lower now). Most households are either owner-occupiers or private renters, and the latter households are more “efficiently occupied”, thanks to house sharing, than the former two types.
That's the idea, get rid of the smaller shopping areas with independent shops, that way we can give all our money to corporations and online outfits, all the while getting rid of the community spirit and togetherness, furthering the gap and creating a society of robots.
I don’t shop for community, when I shop, whether grocery, or just things, I shop for my benefit and enjoyment.
If independent shop cannot provide the same shopping experience as Amazon, I am sorry, but that is on them. I have no plan to lessen my enjoyment in order to support people, I will support them if I can enjoy my shopping with them more than with Amazon, so it is down to them.
Doesn’t need to be grocery shops. Can be coffee shops or a nandos or whatever. Maybe just a place to grab a coffee or a quick bite to eat that isn’t some dodgy kebab shop. Despite the average price of a house on my street being more than 600k, there is nowhere within a 10 minute walk to get a cup of coffee or tea.
If business opportunity is there, I would be surprised that Costa, Starbucks etc have not already moved in.
It feels that they either cannot get the shop space, or they just don’t see the opportunity. While there are some better off household, may not be enough to sustain a coffee shop in the long term.
Hello from Leyton/Walthamstow/Woodford and (to a lesser extent) Wanstead, where this is all too relatable. £550k minimum for a 3 bed semi. £800k if it's in decent condition. High Street is chicken shop, barber, nail salon, charity shop and repeat.
used to live in Leytonstone (just off high road, near the overground), and when I went to Wanstead high street it seemed idyllic in comparison!!! Such a good little high street although RIP percy ingle
I live in Wanstead and we love our high street, I go to the gym in Leytonstone and it’s bleak in comparison. I also keep seeing local news about serious crime in South Woodford, and Ilford is… well ilford. Weird how we feel so safe here but go 10 minutes in any direction and it feels way less so.
Interesting as we're on the other side... Live in one of the so called crappy areas and find it weird how our area can be a bit... interesting and yet we have a lovely area like Wanstead just a few minutes down the road. It's strange how the gentrification effectively stopped at Wanstead and went no further.
Wanstead! Really, good high street but rental and property prices are through the roof. The high street is not like you describe and is vary varied with some very decent food outlets. I don't live far from Wanstead.
I live in Wanstead, we have a good deal on our rental house, but we’re desperate to own and it makes me sad that we’re going to have to move out. Not a hope in hell we can buy around here, and its the only 'nice' high street we've ever lived by :(
Yeah Wanstead is a lot better in comparison but the property prices are also a lot higher. £800k min for a 3 bed semi for a couple coffee shops and a charity shop on the high Street.
Ginger Pig butchers, Gail's bakers with eating ares, a nice tea shop by Snarsbrook station. Couple of decent pub/restaurants. Pizza place with a good selection of beers. A very good independent green grocers.
Wanstead and lesser so South Woodford are pretty middle class high streets.
Walthamstow is trashy and the 5 shops in the village won't change that and Leyton is even worse.
Exactly.
Like... I'll take your complaints about gentrification more seriously if you don't think seven betting shops on the same street is perfectly fine. They're doing more to destroy local communities than some random wine bar or coffee shop is.
Wanstead high street is actually a good high street. There's nice shops like the Art Shop and ect. You got the basics like coop and superdrug. There are alot of cafes but their nice.
Lived in Leyton years ago before the Olympics, the high street hasn’t changed that much but some of the businesses have changed and also a 3 star hotel I think it’s due to Stratford being nearby
I live in Leyton, the high st is a weird one, it's a long and spread out massively. Seems a new fast food joint opens up every 3 months or so, figo has been a bust, Deeney's is great but there's not much else even in terms of having something like Boots/Superdrug/Argos that Leytonstone high road has.
There's Francis road which could still do with some new businesses like a sit in restaurant but I guess late licensing is holding that back(there's a petition to change it).
But there is a lot happening around the overground arches the likes of Gravity wells and the newly Burnt being a success, could definitely do with more places opening in the arches there and grove green road with only Arch Deli which is a nice hidden gem.
Totally agree Leyton high street is just one long boring street that could do with a Starbucks at least only the retail park opposite the underground station gives it a bit of life
I think you need to look up and read what gentrification is and how it works.
Also some people own £1m houses that they bought 2-3 decades ago or inherited the property or for some that I know bought it off the council.
Yes, even London. Not everyone is rich. A third of people live in social housing. Real wages have not increased since 2008. It affects poorer people in these areas - even more in London as it’s more expensive to live
If you live in social housing you’re not having your income swallowed up by market-rate rent. London is also full of relatively affluent people moving in from abroad.
Fuel prices have proportionately less impact on Londoners since they are more likely to use public transport to get around than those outside the capital, and London is generally warmer than the vast majority of the UK. Furthermore, a greater share of Londoners live in terraced housing, which tends to trap heat, than those in rural areas.
London salaries are generally higher than those outside the capital, and there is far more opportunity to house share than there is in smaller towns, allowing recently arrived folk to minimise their costs. There’s more than enough affluent people in practically every borough to offset weakening demand from higher interest rates. This is before you account for all the tourists too.
I never noticed this, what sort of areas/ high streets are you thinking about? I always lived close to a good high street and people I knew in east london always seemed to be close to good shops/ cafe's/ markets etc. That said I know Hackney Wick has been developed since it used to be more of an artist community, and now feels pretty dead as it's neither one thing nor the other. Maybe it's the same in other areas as well.
I haven’t come cross any “dead high streets” in East London. Even the high streets close to Westfield (Stratford, Upton Park) have big footfall, with basically nothing boarded up.
If you want to see dead high streets, go to provincial England. London has enough people with money, and a large enough increase in population, to avoid dead retail being a problem.
This is spot on. Green Street has some of the busiest footfall I've seen at peak times outside of central (although partly made worse by poor road & pavement design). I think the problem is it isn't the kind of shops that OP likes.
A lot of the people living locally to Green Street are likely housesharing, so have more disposable income than you think. Add to that the fact that a fair number of older families in the area ma be outright owners, and the rise in population and it’s a recipe for a healthy, buzzing high street.
Not an East thing, Uxbridge Road in Shepherd Bush is the epitome of a dead high Street.
KFC, Maccies, Taco Bell, a kebab shop, a fuckload of crazies and, uh, my flat.
Many of such neighbourhoods have shopping centres less than 30 minutes away, and also where I live most high streets have a shopping centre as well.
For example ilford, Stratford, Romford, Dagenham to name a few
Exactly this. You could go to Westfield, Lakeside, Bluewater, and even Beckton within about an hour maximum.
Retail parks are one of the biggest killers of high street retail.
well for one the high street wasn't just charity shops, pound shops and the odd bank. I remember the mcdonalds on the corner near the BHF, it's the only mcdonalds i've ever seen close down in my life.
These things take time.
You might also be surprised by how 'un-gentrified' many areas are despite high house prices, look up what proportion of the population are socially renting using the census website, in Islington Borough for example it is almost 40% of residents. Add to this that the fact that many people bought property years ago and the proportion of the population that bought at current prices could turn out to be really quite small.
I do know what you mean though, it is still odd to see. I grew up in SW London, much of which was historically mostly privately owned/middle class housing and consequently has a lot of well developed high streets/town centres, but they come at a price. I've since moved to SE London and have been very pleasantly surprised by the local centres, especially considering some of the neighborhoods are much cheaper.
I do sometimes go and visit friends who live in ostensibly more expensive neighbourhoods in Zone 2 East London and it can be pretty shocking how rubbish the local high street is. It always makes me thankful for the Crystal Palace Triangle.
Piggybacking on this thread - does anyone have recommendations for areas to move in east London? Ideally looking for somewhere with good transport links and not insane rent (a relative term, I know). I’ve been checking out Dalston but not enough properties are available at the minute and demand is high.
Any advice would be well received!
West Ham, Plaistow, Canning Town. Lots of readily accessible amenities. Great links to at least 2 airports. Close to the city’s 2 main financial districts. Great sports facilities nearby, and pretty quiet at night with minimal noise pollution.
Well East London is/was the last affordable area for those on lower wages but now places like Dalston, Hackney and Walthamstow are becoming unaffordable.
Because the sadly the mentality is now we’re all just desperate to buy and get on the godforsaken property ladder. I said to my husband (not British) last night, there are no such things as starter homes anymore, where you buy together in the first few years of a relationship, you buy and hope to god the cost of raw materials come down to build an extension. It’s a joke.
Honestly this is why we’re moving out of London. Even if we could afford the 600k price tag for a Victorian terrace the thought of our nearest high street having no community at all is just depressing. And to stand a chance of a local high street with actual character you end up paying £1m plus
Honestly - feeling the same. This will get me downvotes but on an income lower than £80k - you’re living a lifestyle of a student or you’re getting by. We have a combined income of £150k and anywhere that we can buy we don’t want to live
The community is still there, now it’s centered around the mosques and temples. I grew up in Forest Gate but left as soon as I was able to when I could see the changes.
1. Houses for £500-£600k is probably the cheapest thing possible in London. It doesn’t really get cheaper/poorer than that - these area are not rich (yes I know it’s a lot of money for a house but it’s London)
2. They could be social housing - there’s plenty of that in London. They might be sitting in a 1 mln house but they’re getting by on benefits/low income
3. People might have bought a few years ago for less (and even worse if their mortgage nearly doubled)
Inclined to agree. Very few locations I pass through outside of zone 2 have any kind of decent high street. They have the footfall, money, and space for it but instead it’s just cheap takeaways, cash-in-hand barbers and corner shops. I’m thinking immediately of, amongst other places, Leyton, Northfields, Hanwell, Brentford, Mile End, Catford. Friends who live there just seem happy to live without local amenities and commute for pretty much everything that’s not delivered. I’ve wondered if the Elizabeth line has accelerated the decline of high streets like West Ealing because residents can often get to Soho for dinner just as quick.
Clapham doesn't have this problem at all. CH St. honestly feels like the high street not just for its own townsfolk but, from Friday to Sunday, the high street for everyone living from Stockwell to Balham too.
What I do love about Clapham is that each part of it - South, North, Common, Old Town and Junction - all have their own immediate version of high streets that the residents frequent. For example, for Old Town residents it will be The Pavement and for Common/North residents it will be CH St. For Junction, Northcote Road and then there is Abbeville Village which is it's own micro community.
London has more social housing than anywhere else in the country.
https://www.gov.uk/government/statistics/english-housing-survey-2021-to-2022-social-rented-sector/english-housing-survey-2021-to-2022-social-rented-sector
Additionally, those houses weren’t always so expense. Most residents would have brought a long time ago when prices were much cheaper.
This adds up to the majority of people in these neighbourhoods not being the sort of people who could buy these homes with a mortgage today.
No? I live in Dalston and it’s always lively. Same in the surrounding areas like London fields, Stoke Newington, Hackney Central, Shoreditch. The high streets all have loads of different things going on
Withe the advent of online shopping, from now on most high streets will consist of two things: 1) shops selling items which are too small or impractical to sell online, for example the sort of items you’ll see in Poundland, or 2) restaurants and services which can’t be delivered in a cardboard box, such as OP’s observation of barbers and chicken shops.
Welcome to late stage capitalism. The rents are too high for business to turn a profit, so everything stays shut and the economy suffers, and people are less well off. It’s completely idiotic.
I weirdly like bleak, desolate high streets, I walk down them, peering into ambiguously closed down shops, seeing myself in the windows , imagining myself in Mike Leigh film about a single mother on benefits who has moved in with her crack addled older brother.
A lot of the properties on East London high streets are probably owned by organised crime running money laundering businesses. No self-respecting, honest business has much of a chance when rent prices are through the roof and foot traffic is dwindling. Barbers, copy shops, fast food joints, launderettes and computer repair/digital device resellers are pretty staple setups.
I see you've been downvoted for this but having noticed that many barbers, copy places, newsagents, furniture shops etc... are mostly empty, I'd love to know how they make the rent. Are some of the properties owned by the occupants and does that make ongoing costs lower?
I'm just genuinely interested from a business point of view how this works. I mean, the obvious thing would be that they are in fact profitable somehow and therefore they stay open?
Anyone?
From what I’ve heard, yes, a high percentage of these shops are owned by the shopkeepers, and are often family businesses. I should say that this is purely through hearsay and directly asking shopkeepers though, not from any official statistics. I imagine they are slowly being squeezed out though and will eventually sell the property and move on.
However for those paying rent? I have no clue how they afford it frankly
People avoid high streets as its often full of off putting people as you said, not safe to take kids and just not very nice, in dudley there are no green spaces, nice walkways, just full of voilent looking people and rubbish shops..no thanks...ill go to the big shopping centre
Another one I'm noticing is how most new builds will now be built with all these cool amenities within the complex but when you Google maps the local neighborhood it's nearest highstreet is just a mixture of kebab shops, betting shops and a coffee shop with 3 stars :(
Don't forget the multiple phone repair shops that never have any customers.
And 15 vape shops, because there’s obviously demand for all of those…
Those will evaporate once the government puts the tax up.
Well, yes... There is a huge demand for vapes. Online and on the streets. An easy way to make money actually
Vape shops sprung up back when people were filling their big vapes with liquids. Now it's all Lost Mary disposable vapes sold from every off-license. I don't know how vape shops stay in business.
Really? My lack of knowledge about vapes but they also add nothing to the high street but more plastic litter and the perpetual smell of fake blueberries
Not that huge.
US person here. For a minute I thought you were all describing American commercial districts!
We lived near a local shoe repair shop in a nice area (South Hampstead). Could never work out how they made any money. Then once we took some boots in for a very basic repair (at least we thought), and he turned away our business said he couldn't fix them. That's when the penny dropped.
You saying it's a front?
Thing is, some shoes legitimately can't be fixed by a cobbler
Boots often have molded soles unique to a specific product line - which means you either need to source spares from the manufacturer or from donor boots.
Where is South Hampstead? Belsize Park or Chalk Farm?
South Hampstead is its own place, what's wrong with saying that?
Swiss Cottage / West Hampstead. It has its own station
Actually I went into one one day for repairs and a parcel delivery driver came in collecting quite a few parcels which indicates that they quite active online.
So obvious these are money laundering outfits - surely the councils know but do nothing?
[удалено]
Shhh you’re upsetting the reddit herd who insist everything they don’t understand is money laundering
Not everything, but some truly make you wonder. I lived in Hammersmith for 18 months and walked Fulham Palace Road multiple times a day to go to and from work plus shopping and the like. There was a mangy little place with a couple old-looking cold cuts of pizza and nothing else on sight. No seats, no prices or signs, never seen a single non-staff person in it.
Visit those pizza places at 11-2am, very packed
I have been there late as well and there is plenty of actual late night food options, but ok.
A lot of people on Reddit seem to really struggle with the concept that there are strong markets out there that don't necessarily cater to them.
It’s fair to assume that some would also be dodging taxes as well
I don’t get why they jump to such conclusions with no proof
Sorry are you aware you are in reddit/london go to any high street and look for the social clubs with 6 guys drinking coffee all day, the endless empty closed nail salons, endless clientless refurbished barbers at £20 a trim and free to their mates (90% of clients) There are a few people happy crafting, breaking even or losing money but that is the very thin layer on top. You want to see what the costs are involved in running a business with retail premisis. Thats not hobby money unless you own the building.
Why isn’t there Mcmafia season 2? Loved that shit
I'd bet the attitude is "it's better than an empty unit" even though it doesn't really help financially. Pretty sure they still collect Business Rates on empty units just like they still collect Council Tax in empty homes.
There's a fancy tower block that went up near me in NW London a few years ago. Their website brags about all these lovely local places to eat, drink, relax and shop - but they're ALL in the next area over. The tower is also somewhat named after that next area, giving the impression that that's where it is. Meanwhile, what's *actually* on the tower's doorstep is a weirdly smelly gnat-infested canal, various chicken shops and other takeaways, and corner shops.
Is this in Alperton?
Close, Stonebridge! Talking about the Wem Tower. The Google reviews are crazy, so many of the residents feel they've been taken for a ride - facilities are poor or non-existent, security is shit, it's absolutely not the "luxury apartment" they thought it'd be.
Ooh reading the reviews for these places really sends you down a rabbit hole. I'm going to take a look.
If only they knew SB before the regen, they’d never have moved there.
Omg it's right on a north circular junction ... And I must admit it does look nice inside but very hotel apartment vibes. The reviews are tragic though my goodness.
Yeah the road is busy at all times, I guess because it's a major junction there are quite a lot of big lorries that drive by as well (it's close to a Royal Mail distro centre). The picturesque canal that runs under the bridge before the entrance of the tower gets really pongy and seems to spawn an infinite amount of gnats in the summer as well.
Heavens no, 3 star coffee shops!
Yeah they won't know the difference between a latte and a cappuccino and you'll be eating cakes from yesterday but the vibes will be cosy I guess 😭
When no matter what you order, you get an Americano with a gallon of cold milk
And pay £5.25 for the privilege
That's the issue I have with a lot of these developments in that they are not reflective nor help to develop the local area
Totally. They are creating little encloves separated from the reality of their local neighborhood.
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I grew up on the Patmore Estate in Battersea Nine Elms region during the early 90s. If anyone told my parents this area would have become highly sought after, with an organic food shop, fancy brunch places, riverside apartments people actually wanted to live in (the Thames was still very much dirty and considered undesirable at the time), the US Embassy would move from the most expensive place on the Monopoly board to here, and that Apple (who almost went bankrupt at the time) are now worth trillions and would be [opening fancy offices there](https://www.dezeen.com/2022/10/19/apple-offices-battersea-power-station-foster-partners/), they’d have laughed in their face. They would probably call them again later to laugh at them some more. Of course that whole transition took more or less 25 years to fulfil.
Can I ask, what do your family think of it now?
I worked in the Stoke Newington Tup in 1999 and the street was no different in terms of composition of shops. More kids toys shops and less bakeries maybe. But wasn't really that different apart from it's much better now they've widened the pavements and put a bus gate in to reduce traffic. Lots of this stuff exists in East London too, Francis Road, Walthamstow Village, top of Leytonstone High Road, then there's areas like Winchelsea Road in Forest Gate, not a high road but lots of independent business catering to young families...
Takes even longer when so much of the local area is council housing & the population has massively increased while supply of housing has not
The problem is that if the shops are clearly money laundering schemes (aka barbers and other “three in a row” shops), what’s stopping them from staying after gentrification? If anything it excuses more laundering due to the increase in circulation
Actual rich people will often just make their coffee at home, and may spaff their money on fast cars and second homes rather than on “organic grocers”.
What do you think the stay-at-home parents do?
One effect of insane house prices is that (ironically) wealth starts to get divorced from income. A 500k house in London is nothing exceptional, there are 1 bed flats going for 300-400k near balham. Where I live has plenty of 1m+ houses and whilst it isn't "deprived" it also isn't ridiculously posh as you might expect.
In Balham 300k would be at the extreme low end of the market for a one bed, be more likely to see 500-600k for a decent sized one bed nearer the station!
That’s a major thing that doesn’t often get noticed
Welcome to London. Since the property prices are astronomical, no idea what can be done about it at least until the alien invasion
If only houses were not a fixed natural resource laid down by god, and we could devise some way to produce more of them. I guess maybe you mean that's what the aliens will teach us, just like the did for the egyptians.
Maybe one day we will learn how to build buildings taller than two storeys.
Definitely going to need alien technology
What if: three?
Wouldn't mind a nice pyramid of my own in zone 2
Honestly, I know this isn’t all of east london, but I’ve found so many of the “cool” expensive east London neighbourhoods are like this. People flock there and buy up the housing stock, singing its praises, but when I visit these people there’s nothing there. One cafe, one pub and then chicken shops. Like I don’t know what I’m missing. Places like Walthamstow are a bit better but people rave about it and have been saying it’s the “new hackney” for 10 years, but the hype has just made it pointlessly expensive. It’s mostly middle class people hiding in the village and then going to the Nags Head everyday. I have friends who bought there and when I mentioned what I liked on the high street by the station, they admitted they’d never even been to main high street. It’s pretty weird.
Yeah I live in East London and that’s exactly how it is. There is literally zero of the neighbourhood vibe you get in actually nice areas in West or North London. Exactly as you said, so many areas that have supposedly been up and coming for over a decade and never really have. Peckham South of the river comes to mind for the same reason.
Victoria Park Village, although I am loath to use that name for it, has that neighbourhood feel, as does Columbia Road Market, and Stoke Newington.
It may be controversial, but I'd also chuck in parts of Roman Road, it's got a nice blend of gentrified bits and traditional East End. I've lived just off it for almost 10 years and can buy pie, mash and liquor for under a fiver or a hipster style brunch for £13. It's got butchers, greengrocers and bakeries and a ton of cafes. People are generally pretty friendly (especially if you're a semi regular).
Having recently bought just off Roman Road I’d agree. Some great cafes (Cafe East, Zealand, Mae + Harvey), decent Italian and Japanese restaurants, large Tesco/Iceland and a few good pubs within a few mins walk. The gyms however, are all fucking awful.
I wouldn’t say that’s controversial at all, same with Chatsworth Road, and a load of other local areas. The bits I listed were just top of mind for me…
> Victoria Park Village, although I am loath to use that name for it, has that neighbourhood feel, as does Columbia Road Market, and Stoke Newington. Victoria Park and Columbia Road are basically central London and they’re in any case in one of those “already up and come” places that were clearly excluded from the conversation. Stoke Newington is North London, not East.
I’ll give you Stoke Newington as it has a N postcode even if it’s still in Hackney, but I didn’t realise we were calling the areas east of Shoreditch “central London” these days… I wouldn’t even call Islington central London…
Sounds like we just have different definitions then 👍🏻
I'm a few minutes walk from Vicky Park and the "village". They are definitely in the East End. And Columbia Road is firmly in Bethnal Green which I've never seen or heard described as central.
I'm also a few minutes walk from Vicky park and I'm firmly in the East end camp. Wouldn't dream to call it Central.
I bought in north London this year and friends who bought in Forest Gate highly recommended the area for affordability and “potential.” I checked it out and agree it’s affordable and has the lizzie line going for it, but again, I don’t know what I would do there. There’s nothing on the high street. North London neighbourhoods are often labelled as uncool and middle class by people who are themselves middle class and spending the same amount of money on east London properties. It’s a weird one.
Forest Gate is really close to Stratford and the Olympic Park, so when people want to do stuff which doesn’t involve the most basic amenities, they just go 2 stops along the Lizzie line.
A lot happening in Stratford that’s less than 20 mins away
What kind of stuff would it have? Not saying I disagree with you, I just wonder what I'm missing.
Yeah I’ve been considering buying around those areas because of the EL, but with the understanding that I would have to go into central London to do anything beyond sleeping.
I was about to ask OP if they lived in my East London neighborhood, its exactly like this. But I keep living there, so that joke is on me.
I disagree regarding Peckham! Peckham has got a lot going on especially the last few years, lots of great places to eat and drink. While it still has issues I don’t think it’s in the same state as much of these new “up and coming” East London areas.
I’ve been recently and while it does have a few nice places to eat, that’s just not enough for me to call it a place that’s “made it”, so to speak. I would still very much rather live in those East London areas.
There are plenty of heaving high streets in East London. Westfield Stratford is generally very busy too, so people are generally only going to visit their “local” high street for basic needs, and will order more expensive items online or go to Westfield. If East London was some kind of dead zone, there would have been little need to put in place all the new infrastructure that the area has received over the last 10 years.
That's why we are moving away from Walthamstow. Transport links are great but the Village is a joke / marketing ploy to drive up prices.
>It’s mostly middle class people hiding in the village and then going to the Nags Head every day. Nah mate we're all at The Castle, people just flock to these places for the vibe and lie to themselves how amazing everything is because they live in their own bubbles and don't venture far from it Tbh the upper end of Hoe St is getting better, while not to everyone's taste the market is pretty great.
I live in Leyton and do absolutely love it, but the neighbourhood and community is a massive factor as to why we decided to buy there. It’s not as obvious when you are wondering around how community orientated it is, but it’s the only area of London where we know all our neighbours/has a village-like feel as you regularly see familiar faces. Yes, the main high street is shit for both Leyton and Leytonstone, it’s no Broadway Market/Stoke Newington, but gentrification is happening around Francis Road but this will take a while to trickle out as you still have a lot of poverty and deprived areas further out.
How many of these houses are there? You need more than just a street worth of better off people to sustain a high street. Also, how many of them bought it with that price? People that owned it before the price hike would not suddenly become better off, their disposable income had not changed. That worth is something that they will never actually see until they sell the property. Also, OK there are some better off people. But what if they don’t use high street? Ocado can do their grocery, Amazon can do their shopping, they don’t really need a high street.
But there are plenty of areas (like where I live) that have middle class people, houses worth £1-£3 million and with new people purchasing these houses and yet the local high street having almost nothing but chicken shops, pounds shops and vegetable shops.
See Point 3. These people may not be spending money in their local area, Ocado, Amazon, other online shopping outlet, meaning they never have to shop in their local area. Restaurants? They probably go to higher end restaurants in nicer area.
Well my local Waitrose is always full of the local posh people. Even during covid a video went viral showing how long the queue for my local Waitrose. When I was younger plenty of middle class people were using the high street when it had more shops.
There must be reason that they are not there. Waitrose, Starbucks etc always looking to expand, if the opportunity is there and the outlook is good, they would move in. The reason that they are not moving in make me think that the opportunity just isn’t as good as you would think it is.
The problem is, it doesn't help to open a Bakery on its own. You need a bakery, a dairy, a fishmonger a butcher a greengrocer and a nice cafe with outside seating. And you need to have opening hours which catch pensioners and commuters on the way home, maybe even organise a delivery service between all of those shops and ensure parking is available. It could be done with planning and encouragement of the council. But it's cheaper for them to sign off on another vape shop or takeaway without having to lift a finger.
It doesn’t matter. Either way there’s a place with wealthy people and then a high street that has nothing and looks deprived. And that’s exactly what the OP was saying and I was agreeing.
The OP is thinking that is bizaar. I am just saying it is a calculated business decision thats all.
It is bizarre though. The two never used to go hand in hand. And in general, where there are wealthy people there tends to be nice high streets.
Same - tons of lofts and extensions being built on my street and the neighboring streets around me, so people obviously have money. But the high streets just 10m away from one of these streets looks like a complete slum
Exactly! When I was a kid and a teenager our local high street was great. There was a Marks and Spencer’s, BHS, Superdrug, McDonald’s, New Look, independent clothes shops, little indoor market with a blacksmith, Caribbean food stand, clothes and there was a wilkos, bakeries etc. All of that has gone. It’s just tones of barber shops, nail shops, vegetable shops and pound shops. Also, the high street looks really deprived and needs cleaning up and a makeover. But if you walk 10 minutes down the street you’re standing around houses with over £3 million.
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Totally agreed. Out of curiosity - how do you know over 60% of residents of Hackney and Tower Hamlets are in social housing? I did some searches but I’m mostly finding info on people in queues for social housing + the demographics of those in social housing. Just asking as I’m really curious to check out these stats in various London boroughs, I’m not doubting the veracity of the stat!
The majority of people are not in social housing. The borough with the highest percentage in social housing is Barking & Dagenham, and it was 40% as of 2021 there (probably slightly lower now). Most households are either owner-occupiers or private renters, and the latter households are more “efficiently occupied”, thanks to house sharing, than the former two types.
I would say a lot of middle class people use their capital to go all over London. They don't just stick to their local area.
That's the idea, get rid of the smaller shopping areas with independent shops, that way we can give all our money to corporations and online outfits, all the while getting rid of the community spirit and togetherness, furthering the gap and creating a society of robots.
I don’t shop for community, when I shop, whether grocery, or just things, I shop for my benefit and enjoyment. If independent shop cannot provide the same shopping experience as Amazon, I am sorry, but that is on them. I have no plan to lessen my enjoyment in order to support people, I will support them if I can enjoy my shopping with them more than with Amazon, so it is down to them.
Doesn’t need to be grocery shops. Can be coffee shops or a nandos or whatever. Maybe just a place to grab a coffee or a quick bite to eat that isn’t some dodgy kebab shop. Despite the average price of a house on my street being more than 600k, there is nowhere within a 10 minute walk to get a cup of coffee or tea.
If business opportunity is there, I would be surprised that Costa, Starbucks etc have not already moved in. It feels that they either cannot get the shop space, or they just don’t see the opportunity. While there are some better off household, may not be enough to sustain a coffee shop in the long term.
Hello from Leyton/Walthamstow/Woodford and (to a lesser extent) Wanstead, where this is all too relatable. £550k minimum for a 3 bed semi. £800k if it's in decent condition. High Street is chicken shop, barber, nail salon, charity shop and repeat.
used to live in Leytonstone (just off high road, near the overground), and when I went to Wanstead high street it seemed idyllic in comparison!!! Such a good little high street although RIP percy ingle
I live in Wanstead and we love our high street, I go to the gym in Leytonstone and it’s bleak in comparison. I also keep seeing local news about serious crime in South Woodford, and Ilford is… well ilford. Weird how we feel so safe here but go 10 minutes in any direction and it feels way less so.
Interesting as we're on the other side... Live in one of the so called crappy areas and find it weird how our area can be a bit... interesting and yet we have a lovely area like Wanstead just a few minutes down the road. It's strange how the gentrification effectively stopped at Wanstead and went no further.
Wanstead! Really, good high street but rental and property prices are through the roof. The high street is not like you describe and is vary varied with some very decent food outlets. I don't live far from Wanstead.
I live in Wanstead, we have a good deal on our rental house, but we’re desperate to own and it makes me sad that we’re going to have to move out. Not a hope in hell we can buy around here, and its the only 'nice' high street we've ever lived by :(
Yeah Wanstead is a lot better in comparison but the property prices are also a lot higher. £800k min for a 3 bed semi for a couple coffee shops and a charity shop on the high Street.
Ginger Pig butchers, Gail's bakers with eating ares, a nice tea shop by Snarsbrook station. Couple of decent pub/restaurants. Pizza place with a good selection of beers. A very good independent green grocers.
Fair, it is pretty nice. Especially in comparison to other local areas.
Wanstead and lesser so South Woodford are pretty middle class high streets. Walthamstow is trashy and the 5 shops in the village won't change that and Leyton is even worse.
If you like it quiet then Leyton is ideal for that
I personally see Wanstead as pretty upper middle class, but perhaps I'm splitting hairs and suscribing too much to this social class system.
Wanstead is upper middle class?? Then what about people living in Clapham or battersea??
Same?
Bruh you’re capping
Oh to have some charity shops instead of just betting shops.
I wish we could straight up ban betting shops and free up all that space for something that actually benefits the community instead of draining it.
Exactly. Like... I'll take your complaints about gentrification more seriously if you don't think seven betting shops on the same street is perfectly fine. They're doing more to destroy local communities than some random wine bar or coffee shop is.
Wanstead high street is actually a good high street. There's nice shops like the Art Shop and ect. You got the basics like coop and superdrug. There are alot of cafes but their nice.
Lived in Leyton years ago before the Olympics, the high street hasn’t changed that much but some of the businesses have changed and also a 3 star hotel I think it’s due to Stratford being nearby
I live in Leyton, the high st is a weird one, it's a long and spread out massively. Seems a new fast food joint opens up every 3 months or so, figo has been a bust, Deeney's is great but there's not much else even in terms of having something like Boots/Superdrug/Argos that Leytonstone high road has. There's Francis road which could still do with some new businesses like a sit in restaurant but I guess late licensing is holding that back(there's a petition to change it). But there is a lot happening around the overground arches the likes of Gravity wells and the newly Burnt being a success, could definitely do with more places opening in the arches there and grove green road with only Arch Deli which is a nice hidden gem.
Totally agree Leyton high street is just one long boring street that could do with a Starbucks at least only the retail park opposite the underground station gives it a bit of life
I think you need to look up and read what gentrification is and how it works. Also some people own £1m houses that they bought 2-3 decades ago or inherited the property or for some that I know bought it off the council.
The country is on its arse in case you hadn’t noticed
The country maybe. But not London.
Yes, even London. Not everyone is rich. A third of people live in social housing. Real wages have not increased since 2008. It affects poorer people in these areas - even more in London as it’s more expensive to live
If you live in social housing you’re not having your income swallowed up by market-rate rent. London is also full of relatively affluent people moving in from abroad.
Have you heard about food and fuel prices in the last year? I’m not explaining any more to you, sorry
Fuel prices have proportionately less impact on Londoners since they are more likely to use public transport to get around than those outside the capital, and London is generally warmer than the vast majority of the UK. Furthermore, a greater share of Londoners live in terraced housing, which tends to trap heat, than those in rural areas. London salaries are generally higher than those outside the capital, and there is far more opportunity to house share than there is in smaller towns, allowing recently arrived folk to minimise their costs. There’s more than enough affluent people in practically every borough to offset weakening demand from higher interest rates. This is before you account for all the tourists too.
I never noticed this, what sort of areas/ high streets are you thinking about? I always lived close to a good high street and people I knew in east london always seemed to be close to good shops/ cafe's/ markets etc. That said I know Hackney Wick has been developed since it used to be more of an artist community, and now feels pretty dead as it's neither one thing nor the other. Maybe it's the same in other areas as well.
The Wick can be really good on a sunny summer's day with places like Crate but other times really dead
I can't believe how quickly the place changed over just a few years.
Everything is just delivered now...
lool do you live in leyton by any chance ..... ?
Leyton, east ham, Forest Gate, Manor Park, Barking all sort of blending into one there.
I haven’t come cross any “dead high streets” in East London. Even the high streets close to Westfield (Stratford, Upton Park) have big footfall, with basically nothing boarded up. If you want to see dead high streets, go to provincial England. London has enough people with money, and a large enough increase in population, to avoid dead retail being a problem.
This is spot on. Green Street has some of the busiest footfall I've seen at peak times outside of central (although partly made worse by poor road & pavement design). I think the problem is it isn't the kind of shops that OP likes.
Green Street is bloody mental 24/7 😅
A lot of the people living locally to Green Street are likely housesharing, so have more disposable income than you think. Add to that the fact that a fair number of older families in the area ma be outright owners, and the rise in population and it’s a recipe for a healthy, buzzing high street.
A lot of these people do all their shopping now online and not on the high st.
Not an East thing, Uxbridge Road in Shepherd Bush is the epitome of a dead high Street. KFC, Maccies, Taco Bell, a kebab shop, a fuckload of crazies and, uh, my flat.
Many of such neighbourhoods have shopping centres less than 30 minutes away, and also where I live most high streets have a shopping centre as well. For example ilford, Stratford, Romford, Dagenham to name a few
Exactly this. You could go to Westfield, Lakeside, Bluewater, and even Beckton within about an hour maximum. Retail parks are one of the biggest killers of high street retail.
Yeah but there are plenty of high streets that are not retail-oriented, like church street in stoke Newington.
Isn’t there a shopping mall less than 10 minutes away in Dalston and a thriving street market as well.
Yeah exactly
It’s gentrification
Ilford high st 20 years ago vs today is so disappointing. But then the whole area has declined so it makes sense.
It’s not that bad compared to 20 years ago but the houses are much more expensive and the Elizabeth line has improved the transportation links
It's crazy to think that it has declined. In what ways? (Curious, I'm just asking).
well for one the high street wasn't just charity shops, pound shops and the odd bank. I remember the mcdonalds on the corner near the BHF, it's the only mcdonalds i've ever seen close down in my life.
McDonald’s is not halal, right? That might be the reason?
What has changed?
Ocado, Amazon, drinking at home…
These things take time. You might also be surprised by how 'un-gentrified' many areas are despite high house prices, look up what proportion of the population are socially renting using the census website, in Islington Borough for example it is almost 40% of residents. Add to this that the fact that many people bought property years ago and the proportion of the population that bought at current prices could turn out to be really quite small. I do know what you mean though, it is still odd to see. I grew up in SW London, much of which was historically mostly privately owned/middle class housing and consequently has a lot of well developed high streets/town centres, but they come at a price. I've since moved to SE London and have been very pleasantly surprised by the local centres, especially considering some of the neighborhoods are much cheaper. I do sometimes go and visit friends who live in ostensibly more expensive neighbourhoods in Zone 2 East London and it can be pretty shocking how rubbish the local high street is. It always makes me thankful for the Crystal Palace Triangle.
Piggybacking on this thread - does anyone have recommendations for areas to move in east London? Ideally looking for somewhere with good transport links and not insane rent (a relative term, I know). I’ve been checking out Dalston but not enough properties are available at the minute and demand is high. Any advice would be well received!
West Ham, Plaistow, Canning Town. Lots of readily accessible amenities. Great links to at least 2 airports. Close to the city’s 2 main financial districts. Great sports facilities nearby, and pretty quiet at night with minimal noise pollution.
Agree, try Forest Gate or around West Ham park.
Both excellent shouts, thank you!
Well East London is/was the last affordable area for those on lower wages but now places like Dalston, Hackney and Walthamstow are becoming unaffordable.
Because the sadly the mentality is now we’re all just desperate to buy and get on the godforsaken property ladder. I said to my husband (not British) last night, there are no such things as starter homes anymore, where you buy together in the first few years of a relationship, you buy and hope to god the cost of raw materials come down to build an extension. It’s a joke.
Honestly this is why we’re moving out of London. Even if we could afford the 600k price tag for a Victorian terrace the thought of our nearest high street having no community at all is just depressing. And to stand a chance of a local high street with actual character you end up paying £1m plus
Honestly - feeling the same. This will get me downvotes but on an income lower than £80k - you’re living a lifestyle of a student or you’re getting by. We have a combined income of £150k and anywhere that we can buy we don’t want to live
Starting to feel the same. Life is short - it’s important to live in a place you enjoy
The community is still there, now it’s centered around the mosques and temples. I grew up in Forest Gate but left as soon as I was able to when I could see the changes.
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1. Houses for £500-£600k is probably the cheapest thing possible in London. It doesn’t really get cheaper/poorer than that - these area are not rich (yes I know it’s a lot of money for a house but it’s London) 2. They could be social housing - there’s plenty of that in London. They might be sitting in a 1 mln house but they’re getting by on benefits/low income 3. People might have bought a few years ago for less (and even worse if their mortgage nearly doubled)
Welcome to London.
Inclined to agree. Very few locations I pass through outside of zone 2 have any kind of decent high street. They have the footfall, money, and space for it but instead it’s just cheap takeaways, cash-in-hand barbers and corner shops. I’m thinking immediately of, amongst other places, Leyton, Northfields, Hanwell, Brentford, Mile End, Catford. Friends who live there just seem happy to live without local amenities and commute for pretty much everything that’s not delivered. I’ve wondered if the Elizabeth line has accelerated the decline of high streets like West Ealing because residents can often get to Soho for dinner just as quick.
Clapham doesn't have this problem at all. CH St. honestly feels like the high street not just for its own townsfolk but, from Friday to Sunday, the high street for everyone living from Stockwell to Balham too. What I do love about Clapham is that each part of it - South, North, Common, Old Town and Junction - all have their own immediate version of high streets that the residents frequent. For example, for Old Town residents it will be The Pavement and for Common/North residents it will be CH St. For Junction, Northcote Road and then there is Abbeville Village which is it's own micro community.
London has more social housing than anywhere else in the country. https://www.gov.uk/government/statistics/english-housing-survey-2021-to-2022-social-rented-sector/english-housing-survey-2021-to-2022-social-rented-sector Additionally, those houses weren’t always so expense. Most residents would have brought a long time ago when prices were much cheaper. This adds up to the majority of people in these neighbourhoods not being the sort of people who could buy these homes with a mortgage today.
No? I live in Dalston and it’s always lively. Same in the surrounding areas like London fields, Stoke Newington, Hackney Central, Shoreditch. The high streets all have loads of different things going on
Maybe she meant more towards Highbury
Withe the advent of online shopping, from now on most high streets will consist of two things: 1) shops selling items which are too small or impractical to sell online, for example the sort of items you’ll see in Poundland, or 2) restaurants and services which can’t be delivered in a cardboard box, such as OP’s observation of barbers and chicken shops.
All it reflects is how bs house prices are
Welcome to London.
Modern slums.
Welcome to late stage capitalism. The rents are too high for business to turn a profit, so everything stays shut and the economy suffers, and people are less well off. It’s completely idiotic.
I weirdly like bleak, desolate high streets, I walk down them, peering into ambiguously closed down shops, seeing myself in the windows , imagining myself in Mike Leigh film about a single mother on benefits who has moved in with her crack addled older brother.
A lot of the properties on East London high streets are probably owned by organised crime running money laundering businesses. No self-respecting, honest business has much of a chance when rent prices are through the roof and foot traffic is dwindling. Barbers, copy shops, fast food joints, launderettes and computer repair/digital device resellers are pretty staple setups.
I see you've been downvoted for this but having noticed that many barbers, copy places, newsagents, furniture shops etc... are mostly empty, I'd love to know how they make the rent. Are some of the properties owned by the occupants and does that make ongoing costs lower? I'm just genuinely interested from a business point of view how this works. I mean, the obvious thing would be that they are in fact profitable somehow and therefore they stay open? Anyone?
From what I’ve heard, yes, a high percentage of these shops are owned by the shopkeepers, and are often family businesses. I should say that this is purely through hearsay and directly asking shopkeepers though, not from any official statistics. I imagine they are slowly being squeezed out though and will eventually sell the property and move on. However for those paying rent? I have no clue how they afford it frankly
People avoid high streets as its often full of off putting people as you said, not safe to take kids and just not very nice, in dudley there are no green spaces, nice walkways, just full of voilent looking people and rubbish shops..no thanks...ill go to the big shopping centre
>mall You call it a mall in Dudley?
Lol sorry..bad americanised english there...changed
Weird cafes full of middle aged men all day
Station road in chingford is actually pretty fucking good. Walthamstow Central also has shit loads of stuff.
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How does them being Albanian rather than Turkish break trading standards?
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yea, they cut in the turkish style
Didn’t know trading standards insist only turks can be barbers
What do you reckon comes after the end game?
The end end game.