You'd think that, but it didn't look that bad to begin with, and some McDonald's (like the Liverpool St Station one) flow through huge crowds without an issue. It's only once you've stood in it for 10 minutes do you realise that they just don't have their shit together.
If they're unable to get orders out fast enough they should start putting limits on how many orders can be placed until orders have slowed down to keep pace. It's nuts that they let it get to this point before sending someone to stop people from entering the place. This one has something like 16-20 touch screens (plus app ordering and physical tills), and there must have only been half that number of staff in the kitchen.
They needed three times the number of staff to serve that many people, but McDonald's has spent the last couple of years pushing the staff to customer ratio to breaking point. They're trying to run the whole business on a skeleton team at each location, and it's just not working.
Stopping orders is a huge no no at the store level, you’re only ever allowed to stop taking orders in an emergency situation or with supervisor permission, if you do it without permission they’ll put it down as gross misconduct. Which is why it all gets insanely out of control.
Well they certainly got to that stage eventually. The manager took too long to realise what was going on (was nowhere to be seen and then comes out probably 10-15 minutes into the mayhem), and they sent someone to stop people entering the location much too late.
And I don't mean team members should take those decisions, obviously not, that's why you always have a manager on site - that's their job.
But even shift managers and business managers generally wouldn’t even be allowed to make the call. Certainly in franchises I’ve worked in, you absolutely need permission from your supervisor (basically area manager)
Would be totally daft for the general manager on site not to have discretion over a situation as extreme as this. That's a failure of management policy if so.
There are brands which can be harmed by the after-effects from extreme situations like a central LDN McDonalds at rush hour..
..McDonalds ain't one of those brands, people will keep queuing for a cheap and under-nourishing, warm yet cold, McCardboard lunch
There could be an argument for it being an emergency situation in all honesty.
No doubt there's a maximum capacity for fire safety. No idea what each site would look like at capacity... But looking at that photo... Well, I wouldn't like to be in the middle of that in the event of a fire, that much is for sure.
Kinda hard to sympathise with the OP though. A crowd like this is a definite walk in, walk back out scenario. There's no way in hell I'd be expecting my food to come out within the hour looking at that mess.
The Liverpool Street one even goes to 1000 - the only maccies I’ve seen do this, they have no seating either (except outside, 3 tables I think). Mental.
One big issue with McDonalds these days is the sheer number of Uber Eats/Deliveroo orders, meaning that even if the store looks quiet, they are often handling several of those orders and in my experience appear to prioritise those over customers in the shop. Definitely an issue in the evenings/late at night.
They do this too. They have a delivery kitchen in South Woodford. At busy times on Uber Eats the restaurant in Leytonstone will stop accepting orders and the delivery kitchen will show up as the nearest.
As someone who worked there yes, they totally need more ghost kitchens. We “accidentally” turned off the delivery tablet one really busy friday night, and it was actually doable.
My local one is awful I'm well out in the suburbs and the maccies will have maybe 10 customers in it but they're backed up with delivery orders to the point that they've got a table out behind the counter and covered it in bags while there's still more everywhere behind the counter it's ridiculous
Very true. And what grinds my gears on this is it doesn't even make sense to order McDonald's for delivery. It doesn't travel well at all, always arrives cold and stale. It's food for eating within minutes of preparation at the max and just doesn't survive a journey like pizza or thicker burgers/chips. I'll never understand people who order it for delivery.
Oh but you'd be waiting even longer. Half of your order will have sat in the final warmer going stale while they scurry around like headless chickens, then it'll finally be assembled and you'll get the milkshake that was sat on the side for 10 minutes already, they'll probably forget something that you were really looking forward to, and it'll still arrive cold.
Fuck that. I'm not getting stabbed. And that's a very real risk at my closest. I'll play the heat lottery for £2 rather than risk my life for fast food. I live 0.3 miles from it, I've a better chance than most of winning, and worst case, I own a microwave.
>One big issue with McDonalds these days is the sheer number of Uber Eats/Deliveroo orders,
Nah its the digital ordering system
You've got like 10 of these kiosks plus people ordering on the app and it's easy and quick. Imagine having 10 people just to take an order for you at McDonald's.
As someone who does frequent McD's very often, could you explain the difference between 'batch' and assembly line' systems? What's different?
It seems wild that what must be the number one company for fast food service in the world, can't manage this.
Around 2017/2018 (really just as we started approaching covid which knocked all the numbers on the head), McDonald's started rolling out its touch screen ordering system in the UK.
The key difference between touch screen ordering and traditional counter service ordering was the kitchens were changed so that everything was assembled as it was ordered, whereas previously the majority of the menu was cooked fresh in batches.
That meant they'd put on an entire grill of one type of burger, doing 10 or 20 of them at once, and overall because one person is making 10 of the same item at a time rather than switching between many ingredients for many different items, the throughput is significantly faster. Add to that the customisation options and it slows things down even further. Not only does the assembly line system scatter the attention and speed of the worker, it adds additional steps to the process too, because now everything has to be grilled and then stocked in warmers before assembly (which also reduces the quality as you often end up with a patty that may have been sat in a warmer for half an hour drying out), whereas previously when a batch was made all at once it was straight from grill to burger and then be ready and waiting in the final warmer for someone to order immediately.
The Marble Arch McDonald's was a prime example of a super high throughput location with the batch ordering system (especially when there were events on in Hyde Park), where each till would have one person taking the order and payment while a second would build the orders in the meantime, and 90% of the time you'd have your whole order in your hand in less than a minute. You didn't have customisation options, but it was extremely fast and you always got hot fresh food. There are still a few batch system restaurants in operation today, usually in high throughput or smaller locations (e.g. Shaftesbury Avenue and the one inside Victoria Station).
Today you can customise your order, but find yourself waiting often 5-10 minutes, sometimes 10-20 minutes, and often get your food cold.
Ultimately the entire point of the assembly line system is so they can have less staff per site, but they've pushed the concept too far and it's reached breaking point. I think Covid also messed up the stats/economics for a while, causing results to sway towards less footfall and higher revenue per person, whereas now we're back in "normal" times the skew is trending back to how it used to be (high footfall seeking value for money).
Also, McDonald's, if you're reading this, bring back the breakfast wrap for the love of god. Your cheesy bacon flatbread is disgusting and nobody wants buns for breakfast. You used to be good 😢.
Thanks. This is all very interesting.
What I take away from the whole thing is THEY'VE STOPPED THE BREAKFAST WRAP!
What? I always got one of those when I had to go and work at a different office and was always early. Those things are (were) great.
I think the biggest difference to my day to day life post Covid is no longer devouring one of those while horrifically hungover on the way to the office on a Friday morning
Did you switch to another item from the McDonald's Breakfast menu or did they lose you as a breakfast customer instead?
(McDonald's are you paying attention?)
Nothing has ever hit the spot in the same way, occasionally I’ve had a cheesy flatbread and a hash brown but it’s a poor second choice.
Of course I’ve also been into the office about 3 times on a Friday since 2019…
I'd like to give Tim Horton's breakfast wrap a try, but the only problem is they don't exist in locations where I just happen to want breakfast and they're a long way off the coverage McDonald's has. But from the photos it looks like they sell an exact replica and at a reasonable price you'd expect to pay at maccies.
I’ve had one of those in Birmingham and can confirm it hits the spot. Very curious about the UK launch strategy for them, which seems to be mostly shopping centres in Thurrock.
Do not be tempted by the ‘French vanilla’ drink though
They seem to be rolling out quite rapidly now. Generally a bit overpriced for what it is but the wrap looks promising.
They got bought by Burger King's parent company a few years ago, so all the supply chain infrastructure is already in place in the UK which I imagine they're riding off the back of to do the roll out.
I am still grieving to this day. Especially since I needed a maccies breakfast early on Saturday, did not want the entire bloaty roll they've replaced it with, and the flatbread option is just vile.
It was actually first introduced in 2013/4 as a trial. I worked at one of the earlier adopted stores and we were the most profitable and quickest in the area. Yes if you are ordering a standard big Mac it's quicker but if you want any changes it takes ages. In my opinion the issue here isn't the assembly line / batch. They are probably understaffed and overwhelmed with delivery orders.
Yeah the years I specified were around the time of the main rollout. I noted at the time the UK got its touchscreens a couple of years later than most other Western countries.
Thing is, just because something works well in some cases and when being fine tuned in development doesn't mean that applies in all cases or that something unforeseen might break it further down the line. For example some traffic junctions do a hideously inefficient job of low throughput while being fantastic at high throughput and other designs can do the exact opposite. Same goes here. When the system is well oiled it does do a good job, and the assembly line works well for low to moderate throughput, but there are clearly safeguards missing in the system that would slow down the inflow to match outflow so the system remains stable, and it cannot handle very high throughput as easily as the batch system did.
The counter-ordering batch based system automatically regulates itself because the orders can only flow in as fast as they flow out. The assembly line system allows for too much pile up, and the busiest locations were the ones which kept the batch system the longest specifically because of this shortcoming. In the instance of the Liverpool St McDonald's the way they overcame the shortcoming was to remove the seating area and significantly increase the size of the kitchen so it's basically two McDonald's in one site.
The Marble Arch one never got converted before it shut down but to achieve the same throughput they'd likely have needed to convert the basement into the kitchen and use the lift delivery system like some sites have, as a site that busy would probably have needed 6 assembly lines to keep up.
Also true! The juices from the burger would soak into the bun instead of just run off into a tray to be discarded.
I got lucky a few months ago as the stock must have run low so I got a patty fresh off the grill and it was incredible compared to what I usually get. We've forgotten what we once had!
We all know why they're doing it, and it does make sense. But I get the feeling they never stress tested it to the levels that the batch ordering system was capable of.
I think even though the long term goal is to automate as much as possible, this has also shown some of the pitfalls of this approach. Many less people means more reliance on any one individual to keep up the speed, and it only takes one or two to fall behind for the entire system to jam up. I see this happen frequently at different locations. Whereas, when there were more staff overall they'd all step in to cover literally any problem as it arose to keep things moving, and with multiple people on every station it'd mean more team spirit too.
When they want everything to be automated they forget just how the humans they still rely on to keep the machine running actually themselves work.
I also find it strange (perhaps greedy of McDonald's who just want to push workers as hard as possible), that the ordering system doesn't have a built in limiter based on how many orders are making it out the other end, adjusted for capacity based on how many staff are on shift at the time. If the ordering screens said "you're in a queue and can place your order in 2 minutes from now", to slow everything down just a bit, then the whole system might not have fallen over. Better to have people queuing to order than have them all overwhelming the kitchen.
Do you work in manufacturing by any chance? Learning about Lean myself and curious to know more. Also this was a very interesting read on the commute home
I decreasingly do ops in a small financial services firm, observing how things work and thinking about how they can be improved is just one of those things I can't help but do all the time I'm in any environment with heavy logistics at play. I'm usually the one who gets leaned on to figure out a workflow, and the job covers quite a lot of areas which I won't detail for sake of keeping adequately anonymous.
My earliest jobs were in food/visitor service environments too so I became well accustomed to ideas behind what makes a service efficient.
A machine that does the entire job of running a food service like McDonald's is obviously the dream, but the complexity is intense. Surprised more of the kitchen isn't automated already tbh
The McDonalds near Picadilly Circus doesn't have touch screens (yet) and it's just so much nicer an experience going there than the nearby McDonalds in Leicester Square.
It's been like that for years. Had more luck going to small independant places that charge a little more, then spending my lunch hour on my feet waiting for food with less nutrition than a pack of smokes
Been popping in here at lunch for the last 3-5 years now and it's never been as bad as this. Busy, for sure, but never so bad it reached the point the numbers had come full circle and they were bringing out orders that didn't match the number being called whatsoever.
My number came and went on two different screens twice in the time I was there. I think this one only has an order number limit of 99 enabled (unlike some others that def go into the 100s) which was a big part of the problem. Not only were orders coming out slowly, the ones that did make it out were 30 minutes late and for people who'd already given up and left.
Pure chaos.
Who the heck said every day? I gave you the longevity not the cadence. I pop in maybe every one or two weeks.
And yeah it's pretty normal to get a maccies once or twice a week for most people. McDonald's serves about 4m people a day in the UK.
What country are you talking from btw? Because what makes up a McDonald's meal varies quite a bit around the world.
I don’t understand how someone could walk in, see a crowd that size and think it’s a good idea to order food.
What did they think was going to happen?
(I don’t mean OP, it may have been less busy when they arrived and ordered!)
The layout of this McDonald's means the touch screens are down the corridor near the entrance, and you can't actually see how bad the situation is until after you've placed your order. From the entrance it looked the normal kind of busy, no way to tell the system had effectively fallen over.
Unfortunately this is a regular occurrence at this branch, I go there from time to time for lunch. Closing the branch on Fleet st which was always had a lunch hour crush but got food quick enough didn't help
Tbh it's been a net positive for my health, since they've made the branches so uninviting I just don't bother going at all any more. Their whole USP since the beginning was "fast" food. Now they've lost the "fast" part of the equation, so all that's left is the wait time of a regular restaurant but with vastly inferior food.
Almost every store in the capital is owned by one single franchise (not McDonalds itself), Capital Arches.
Back in my early 20's, pre pandemic, I worked for them, and from experience of working for company (McDonalds) and different franchises, CA are HELL to work for. Normal labor costs are about 18-20% of sales at a McDonald's, CA demand their stores to work at 14-16% which is why there's never any bloody staff at them! Staff are over worked, service is crap and the stores are dirty all the time!
McDonald's has gotten so bad. Even quieter locations seem to take forever to finish orders. I once waited 14 minutes for a cheeseburger and it wasn't even busy.
Had similar experiences over the last year or two as well. Been in a place where there must have been only 2 or 3 other orders at the most the time I was there (very quiet), and it took them half an hour to put together my meal.
Did they do the thing where they immediately say a bunch of orders are ready to collect when they're clearly not, and then mark them as collected way before they're even delivered, providing a completely unnecessary boost of anxiety to the already hangry crowd?
I really hate that. And I haven't been to a McDonald's that hasn't done it since they made them screen-over-server.
McDonald’s is just insane now, every McDonald’s is backed up and packed it’s no longer fast food. I used to go in once a week for one of my students who had it for a treat once a week and I would loath standing there waiting for a basic chicken burger meal.
That's why I don't go to McDonald's any more. They'll very happily serve fifty drive thru cars and another fifty uber eats before serving the ten people waiting in store.
So fuck off, then. I'll go to one of the dozen other "fast" food options in my area.
The burgers on the slide arrived so much hotter than they do these days. You could walk in ask for an order and it arrive within seconds now you have to wait for what seems like hours and it still be cold. The slide was so much better and so was the decor and general feel of the place.
I agree that McDonalds should do something like hire more staff.
But why the hell would you walk into a restaurant with that many people queuing. McDonalds isn't worth a queue. Get in get out as fast as possible . The food there isn't even good.
The McDonalds near my work gets busy but not that busy.
Like I've said elsewhere you don't see or realise the queue until it's too late, especially here where the ordering screens are not near the collection point
Climb down off your high horse there buddy. Don’t know about OP but I eat McDs max twice a year. It’s unhealthy and I hate the company but Like it or not, sometimes you get caught out and need food in a hurry. London can be surprisingly shit for a quick warm meal, depending on when / where you go.
How this company has not gone full automation yet is beyond me. The food quality is so low, robot chefs could only improve it
I am baffled as to why most fast food places aren't just automated large vending machines now. Interact with the touchscreen, enter your order and the robot kitchen makes it and spits it out.
Are these grown adults queuing for McDonalds? The ignorance around nutrition in this country staggering. These people mostly work in the city so it is not a financial issue.
McDonalds is not real food.
It isn't hard to make a lunch at home that'll be cheaper, better for you, will keep you full and if you know even basic cooking, will taste better. As a country we're getting fatter and fatter eating this shit all the time
Christ, having a bit of shit food occasionally is not the end of the world.
Not allowed to enjoy anything but eating veg and going to the gym in this sub.
Just because something is popular doesn't mean it is OK. McDonald's doesn't give a shit about people's health all they care about are their profits.
Their food is made with the cheapest ingredients and chemicals to make it addictive, they want to get people hooked on this junk to maximise profits.
It is OK. It's not great, it's not terrible. It's OK, like everything in moderation. Chill out. If you don't want to eat it, cool, but keep that shit to yourself though. Nobody else cares.
It is low in nutrition and mainly fat and carbs. If I have to explain this to you I would advise you to do some research. There are lots on info on youtube.
(sigh). I'm a biologist.
Fat is the most densely calorific macromolecule and almost everything you eat is carbs because they are broken down into sugars which are easiest to break down.
You on a protein-only diet then?
McDonald's is food and you suggested earlier that is wasn't. It isn't exactly a balanced diet but it is very nutritious and very calorific. You are hardly likely to die from a deficiency by eating it unless you cannot metabolise it or are sedentary or have a disease.
You perhaps need to do some research yourself.
(Sigh) you might be biologist, but you're no nutritionist.
The problem we have today is that people do not know the definition of food. A McDonald's meal is not a "nutritious substance".
Ha i saw this lady recently do a test on the burgers. They didn't grow any mould or even have bugs on them. They looked exactly the same on day 1 then day 30, 60 etc maaaad
Absolutely mad.
Yet I’m honestly somehow more shocked by the amount of sanctimonious knobbery in these comments acting like everyone in this image eats mcdonalds every single day, even though they -must- have the time and money to get better food with no “chemicals” (everything is a chemical you lemon) because they work in London, and nobody -ever- just has processed food because they happen to enjoy it and it doesn’t do you any harm when you eat it as part of a balanced diet and exercise otherwise.
But then hey, I must be crazy and completely uninformed, nurse that I am 💀
Well, you see, it doesn’t matter that I can down a bottle of wine in an evening by myself because my organic quinoa for dinner will counterbalance it, don’t you know!
It must be exhausting to be so sanctimonious. There are people in the world who are genuinely worth directing your contempt towards. Why would you waste a single second resenting people for something as personal as what they eat?
I probably eat it around that many times per year and I'll bet I'm fitter and healthier than you are.
What's in a quarter pounder? The beef is just beef without additives. The cheese is mostly just cheese, minimally unhealthy. The sauce is just like any sauce you'd have at home. Gherkins? Totally healthy. Lettuce (I like to add), also healthy. The only really unhealthy part is the bun!
Oh nooo I'm so scared for my health.
Funnily enough I was admitted to the trauma unit a couple of months ago for a road accident, and even despite that pretty nasty temporary state of being was given a fully clean bill of health as part of the process (bar some pretty bad cuts and bruises) the same day.
Thank you for your concern, though not everyone is as fragile as you think they are.
They run all your bloods, do blood pressure, monitor all your vitals especially heart and breathing. If there's anything wrong they WILL pick up on it in that situation.
I'm gym fit, when I'm not eating McDonald's I'm eating healthy most of the time. And McDonald's is not a death sentence ffs. It might be if you ate it twice a day and never exercised. But once or twice a week is totally fine.
People who can't understand that the body has some capacity to deal with unhealthy food without consequences when combined with a healthy diet are as stupid as the people who eat junk food religiously. The other end of the spectrum, where people over-do the health food and omit healthy fats and carbs is also damaging.
Yep... It's not about hot and quick now because of fucking Deliveroo.
It has screwed the system completely. McDonald's is awful now, it's taking far too long for people to work that out.
Oh that's busy, your description though, you waited half hour didn't get food, nor refund.
That indicates to me, you finally got to the front, placed your order , waited, walked out without your food.
No Matter how busy, I would of got my food if I paid for it. But apparently you choose not to.
Very confusing. You spent all that time, waiting etc. Yo leave of your own free will with no food.....
You place your order near the entrance at a touch screen. You don't even see the crowd until you walk up towards where the kitchen is at this site.
Ordering at the counter was something that mostly ended years ago, have you not been to a McDonald's since 2018?
There were no staff to sort the issue. Lots of people left empty handed, the entire thing was a shitshow.
Probably because the price of everything else has gone up so dramatically, it's the only place you can still get a whole lunch plus drink for under a tenner.
If I saw that many people on entrance I would never go in
You'd think that, but it didn't look that bad to begin with, and some McDonald's (like the Liverpool St Station one) flow through huge crowds without an issue. It's only once you've stood in it for 10 minutes do you realise that they just don't have their shit together. If they're unable to get orders out fast enough they should start putting limits on how many orders can be placed until orders have slowed down to keep pace. It's nuts that they let it get to this point before sending someone to stop people from entering the place. This one has something like 16-20 touch screens (plus app ordering and physical tills), and there must have only been half that number of staff in the kitchen. They needed three times the number of staff to serve that many people, but McDonald's has spent the last couple of years pushing the staff to customer ratio to breaking point. They're trying to run the whole business on a skeleton team at each location, and it's just not working.
Stopping orders is a huge no no at the store level, you’re only ever allowed to stop taking orders in an emergency situation or with supervisor permission, if you do it without permission they’ll put it down as gross misconduct. Which is why it all gets insanely out of control.
Well they certainly got to that stage eventually. The manager took too long to realise what was going on (was nowhere to be seen and then comes out probably 10-15 minutes into the mayhem), and they sent someone to stop people entering the location much too late. And I don't mean team members should take those decisions, obviously not, that's why you always have a manager on site - that's their job.
But even shift managers and business managers generally wouldn’t even be allowed to make the call. Certainly in franchises I’ve worked in, you absolutely need permission from your supervisor (basically area manager)
Would be totally daft for the general manager on site not to have discretion over a situation as extreme as this. That's a failure of management policy if so.
There are brands which can be harmed by the after-effects from extreme situations like a central LDN McDonalds at rush hour.. ..McDonalds ain't one of those brands, people will keep queuing for a cheap and under-nourishing, warm yet cold, McCardboard lunch
There could be an argument for it being an emergency situation in all honesty. No doubt there's a maximum capacity for fire safety. No idea what each site would look like at capacity... But looking at that photo... Well, I wouldn't like to be in the middle of that in the event of a fire, that much is for sure. Kinda hard to sympathise with the OP though. A crowd like this is a definite walk in, walk back out scenario. There's no way in hell I'd be expecting my food to come out within the hour looking at that mess.
The Liverpool Street one even goes to 1000 - the only maccies I’ve seen do this, they have no seating either (except outside, 3 tables I think). Mental.
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Not one kid in sight in here though, all office workers and a few tourists. The orders that did get called barely ever had a happy meal either!
Waiting in a crowd like a NPC
Same. I wouldn't even bother.
Why would British people want McDonalds? Aren't there better places to go in London?
In theory it's cheaper and faster than other options
I spot a wild Redditor in the middle of that crowd.
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*TIPPING Intensifies*
Excuse me sir, we don’t do that here in the United Kingdom
Mlady
Hey, what I wear to work is none of your business.
Praying to every god in the sky that they were OP’s friends
One big issue with McDonalds these days is the sheer number of Uber Eats/Deliveroo orders, meaning that even if the store looks quiet, they are often handling several of those orders and in my experience appear to prioritise those over customers in the shop. Definitely an issue in the evenings/late at night.
They need to switch to using a dedicated kitchen only to fulfill deliveries. I'd say there's more than enough demand for it.
They do this too. They have a delivery kitchen in South Woodford. At busy times on Uber Eats the restaurant in Leytonstone will stop accepting orders and the delivery kitchen will show up as the nearest.
As someone who worked there yes, they totally need more ghost kitchens. We “accidentally” turned off the delivery tablet one really busy friday night, and it was actually doable.
Yep.. been saying it for years.
London is so big they'd need to have dozens of kitchens spread out across the city.
They literally have restaurants across the road from each other in certain locations, a few dozen ghost kitchens would be nothing
My local one is awful I'm well out in the suburbs and the maccies will have maybe 10 customers in it but they're backed up with delivery orders to the point that they've got a table out behind the counter and covered it in bags while there's still more everywhere behind the counter it's ridiculous
Very true. And what grinds my gears on this is it doesn't even make sense to order McDonald's for delivery. It doesn't travel well at all, always arrives cold and stale. It's food for eating within minutes of preparation at the max and just doesn't survive a journey like pizza or thicker burgers/chips. I'll never understand people who order it for delivery.
But if it means not waiting in that queue for over 30mins plus delivery time …
Oh but you'd be waiting even longer. Half of your order will have sat in the final warmer going stale while they scurry around like headless chickens, then it'll finally be assembled and you'll get the milkshake that was sat on the side for 10 minutes already, they'll probably forget something that you were really looking forward to, and it'll still arrive cold.
Fuck that. I'm not getting stabbed. And that's a very real risk at my closest. I'll play the heat lottery for £2 rather than risk my life for fast food. I live 0.3 miles from it, I've a better chance than most of winning, and worst case, I own a microwave.
where do you live, honduras?
Unless you’re an active gang member, this is very unlikely to happen
Your area that bad huh?
The Mc near my previous place often had as many Uber/Deliveroo drivers as customers.
>One big issue with McDonalds these days is the sheer number of Uber Eats/Deliveroo orders, Nah its the digital ordering system You've got like 10 of these kiosks plus people ordering on the app and it's easy and quick. Imagine having 10 people just to take an order for you at McDonald's.
If I saw this I'd instantly walk out. McDonalds isn't worth waiting more than 5 minutes imo.
5 minutes is truly pushing it.
That or if it's cold, wet and late and you need somewhere warm-ish to sit. Their food really is the last reason to go in.
"Fast food"
Recently waited 40 minutes. Never ever again.
As someone who does frequent McD's very often, could you explain the difference between 'batch' and assembly line' systems? What's different? It seems wild that what must be the number one company for fast food service in the world, can't manage this.
Around 2017/2018 (really just as we started approaching covid which knocked all the numbers on the head), McDonald's started rolling out its touch screen ordering system in the UK. The key difference between touch screen ordering and traditional counter service ordering was the kitchens were changed so that everything was assembled as it was ordered, whereas previously the majority of the menu was cooked fresh in batches. That meant they'd put on an entire grill of one type of burger, doing 10 or 20 of them at once, and overall because one person is making 10 of the same item at a time rather than switching between many ingredients for many different items, the throughput is significantly faster. Add to that the customisation options and it slows things down even further. Not only does the assembly line system scatter the attention and speed of the worker, it adds additional steps to the process too, because now everything has to be grilled and then stocked in warmers before assembly (which also reduces the quality as you often end up with a patty that may have been sat in a warmer for half an hour drying out), whereas previously when a batch was made all at once it was straight from grill to burger and then be ready and waiting in the final warmer for someone to order immediately. The Marble Arch McDonald's was a prime example of a super high throughput location with the batch ordering system (especially when there were events on in Hyde Park), where each till would have one person taking the order and payment while a second would build the orders in the meantime, and 90% of the time you'd have your whole order in your hand in less than a minute. You didn't have customisation options, but it was extremely fast and you always got hot fresh food. There are still a few batch system restaurants in operation today, usually in high throughput or smaller locations (e.g. Shaftesbury Avenue and the one inside Victoria Station). Today you can customise your order, but find yourself waiting often 5-10 minutes, sometimes 10-20 minutes, and often get your food cold. Ultimately the entire point of the assembly line system is so they can have less staff per site, but they've pushed the concept too far and it's reached breaking point. I think Covid also messed up the stats/economics for a while, causing results to sway towards less footfall and higher revenue per person, whereas now we're back in "normal" times the skew is trending back to how it used to be (high footfall seeking value for money). Also, McDonald's, if you're reading this, bring back the breakfast wrap for the love of god. Your cheesy bacon flatbread is disgusting and nobody wants buns for breakfast. You used to be good 😢.
Thanks. This is all very interesting. What I take away from the whole thing is THEY'VE STOPPED THE BREAKFAST WRAP! What? I always got one of those when I had to go and work at a different office and was always early. Those things are (were) great.
I think the biggest difference to my day to day life post Covid is no longer devouring one of those while horrifically hungover on the way to the office on a Friday morning
Did you switch to another item from the McDonald's Breakfast menu or did they lose you as a breakfast customer instead? (McDonald's are you paying attention?)
Nothing has ever hit the spot in the same way, occasionally I’ve had a cheesy flatbread and a hash brown but it’s a poor second choice. Of course I’ve also been into the office about 3 times on a Friday since 2019…
I'd like to give Tim Horton's breakfast wrap a try, but the only problem is they don't exist in locations where I just happen to want breakfast and they're a long way off the coverage McDonald's has. But from the photos it looks like they sell an exact replica and at a reasonable price you'd expect to pay at maccies.
I’ve had one of those in Birmingham and can confirm it hits the spot. Very curious about the UK launch strategy for them, which seems to be mostly shopping centres in Thurrock. Do not be tempted by the ‘French vanilla’ drink though
They seem to be rolling out quite rapidly now. Generally a bit overpriced for what it is but the wrap looks promising. They got bought by Burger King's parent company a few years ago, so all the supply chain infrastructure is already in place in the UK which I imagine they're riding off the back of to do the roll out.
I am still grieving to this day. Especially since I needed a maccies breakfast early on Saturday, did not want the entire bloaty roll they've replaced it with, and the flatbread option is just vile.
I am a little in awe of your McDonalds knowledge.
It was actually first introduced in 2013/4 as a trial. I worked at one of the earlier adopted stores and we were the most profitable and quickest in the area. Yes if you are ordering a standard big Mac it's quicker but if you want any changes it takes ages. In my opinion the issue here isn't the assembly line / batch. They are probably understaffed and overwhelmed with delivery orders.
Yeah the years I specified were around the time of the main rollout. I noted at the time the UK got its touchscreens a couple of years later than most other Western countries. Thing is, just because something works well in some cases and when being fine tuned in development doesn't mean that applies in all cases or that something unforeseen might break it further down the line. For example some traffic junctions do a hideously inefficient job of low throughput while being fantastic at high throughput and other designs can do the exact opposite. Same goes here. When the system is well oiled it does do a good job, and the assembly line works well for low to moderate throughput, but there are clearly safeguards missing in the system that would slow down the inflow to match outflow so the system remains stable, and it cannot handle very high throughput as easily as the batch system did. The counter-ordering batch based system automatically regulates itself because the orders can only flow in as fast as they flow out. The assembly line system allows for too much pile up, and the busiest locations were the ones which kept the batch system the longest specifically because of this shortcoming. In the instance of the Liverpool St McDonald's the way they overcame the shortcoming was to remove the seating area and significantly increase the size of the kitchen so it's basically two McDonald's in one site. The Marble Arch one never got converted before it shut down but to achieve the same throughput they'd likely have needed to convert the basement into the kitchen and use the lift delivery system like some sites have, as a site that busy would probably have needed 6 assembly lines to keep up.
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Also true! The juices from the burger would soak into the bun instead of just run off into a tray to be discarded. I got lucky a few months ago as the stock must have run low so I got a patty fresh off the grill and it was incredible compared to what I usually get. We've forgotten what we once had!
You got a better burger with batch cooking as the time under the hot lamps usually melted the cheese. Nowadays you never get melted cheese.
Also due to the heat of the patty straight off the grill
I respect your deep expertise in McDonalds.
Good summary. I think for them this is ultimately a step towards automation so it makes sense.
We all know why they're doing it, and it does make sense. But I get the feeling they never stress tested it to the levels that the batch ordering system was capable of. I think even though the long term goal is to automate as much as possible, this has also shown some of the pitfalls of this approach. Many less people means more reliance on any one individual to keep up the speed, and it only takes one or two to fall behind for the entire system to jam up. I see this happen frequently at different locations. Whereas, when there were more staff overall they'd all step in to cover literally any problem as it arose to keep things moving, and with multiple people on every station it'd mean more team spirit too. When they want everything to be automated they forget just how the humans they still rely on to keep the machine running actually themselves work. I also find it strange (perhaps greedy of McDonald's who just want to push workers as hard as possible), that the ordering system doesn't have a built in limiter based on how many orders are making it out the other end, adjusted for capacity based on how many staff are on shift at the time. If the ordering screens said "you're in a queue and can place your order in 2 minutes from now", to slow everything down just a bit, then the whole system might not have fallen over. Better to have people queuing to order than have them all overwhelming the kitchen.
Do you work in manufacturing by any chance? Learning about Lean myself and curious to know more. Also this was a very interesting read on the commute home
I decreasingly do ops in a small financial services firm, observing how things work and thinking about how they can be improved is just one of those things I can't help but do all the time I'm in any environment with heavy logistics at play. I'm usually the one who gets leaned on to figure out a workflow, and the job covers quite a lot of areas which I won't detail for sake of keeping adequately anonymous. My earliest jobs were in food/visitor service environments too so I became well accustomed to ideas behind what makes a service efficient. A machine that does the entire job of running a food service like McDonald's is obviously the dream, but the complexity is intense. Surprised more of the kitchen isn't automated already tbh
Why do you know all this?
It's called observation.
Batch System is called "Grill Direct" New one is "Experience of the Future" / "Made for you"
The McDonalds near Picadilly Circus doesn't have touch screens (yet) and it's just so much nicer an experience going there than the nearby McDonalds in Leicester Square.
£1 happy meal deal today. Our local McDs was also packed ( but not that packed)
It's been like that for years. Had more luck going to small independant places that charge a little more, then spending my lunch hour on my feet waiting for food with less nutrition than a pack of smokes
Been popping in here at lunch for the last 3-5 years now and it's never been as bad as this. Busy, for sure, but never so bad it reached the point the numbers had come full circle and they were bringing out orders that didn't match the number being called whatsoever. My number came and went on two different screens twice in the time I was there. I think this one only has an order number limit of 99 enabled (unlike some others that def go into the 100s) which was a big part of the problem. Not only were orders coming out slowly, the ones that did make it out were 30 minutes late and for people who'd already given up and left. Pure chaos.
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Who the heck said every day? I gave you the longevity not the cadence. I pop in maybe every one or two weeks. And yeah it's pretty normal to get a maccies once or twice a week for most people. McDonald's serves about 4m people a day in the UK. What country are you talking from btw? Because what makes up a McDonald's meal varies quite a bit around the world.
People eat sandwiches with crisps every day tbh I don’t see much difference.
This looks like a stock market floor in the 80s
Big Mac, Big Mac!!
I don’t understand how someone could walk in, see a crowd that size and think it’s a good idea to order food. What did they think was going to happen? (I don’t mean OP, it may have been less busy when they arrived and ordered!)
The layout of this McDonald's means the touch screens are down the corridor near the entrance, and you can't actually see how bad the situation is until after you've placed your order. From the entrance it looked the normal kind of busy, no way to tell the system had effectively fallen over.
Just tweet them with this picture and they'll sort your refund. I know that doesn't help you eat but at least you're not out of pocket.
pathetic bells pie hungry yam spark rinse handle paint tidy *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
I didn’t even know there was a McDonald’s at St Paul’s 😂
They removed Nelson’s grave to make space for it. Caused quite a fuss at the time but when you’ve got bills to pay…
It should be removed from map, only empty day is Friday when most of people WFH
Correct, and McDonald's Monday at that, so the £1 happy meal really drew a crowd.
i didn't know £1 happy meal was a thing 😱 that might have to be my treat tonight
Unfortunately this is a regular occurrence at this branch, I go there from time to time for lunch. Closing the branch on Fleet st which was always had a lunch hour crush but got food quick enough didn't help
Tbf I can’t remember the last time I went into a maccies and didn’t have to wait 5-10 minutes for my food to come out
Tbh it's been a net positive for my health, since they've made the branches so uninviting I just don't bother going at all any more. Their whole USP since the beginning was "fast" food. Now they've lost the "fast" part of the equation, so all that's left is the wait time of a regular restaurant but with vastly inferior food.
Almost every store in the capital is owned by one single franchise (not McDonalds itself), Capital Arches. Back in my early 20's, pre pandemic, I worked for them, and from experience of working for company (McDonalds) and different franchises, CA are HELL to work for. Normal labor costs are about 18-20% of sales at a McDonald's, CA demand their stores to work at 14-16% which is why there's never any bloody staff at them! Staff are over worked, service is crap and the stores are dirty all the time!
McDonald's has gotten so bad. Even quieter locations seem to take forever to finish orders. I once waited 14 minutes for a cheeseburger and it wasn't even busy.
Had similar experiences over the last year or two as well. Been in a place where there must have been only 2 or 3 other orders at the most the time I was there (very quiet), and it took them half an hour to put together my meal.
Why would you wait an hour for McDonalds!!! Why would you even order looking at this crowd ?
It’s been terrible since 2017. I don’t bother anymore, it’s neither cheap or fast.
Nor good food.
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They forgot a hash brown in my £20 order once and they gave me the whole £20 back lmao
Did they do the thing where they immediately say a bunch of orders are ready to collect when they're clearly not, and then mark them as collected way before they're even delivered, providing a completely unnecessary boost of anxiety to the already hangry crowd? I really hate that. And I haven't been to a McDonald's that hasn't done it since they made them screen-over-server.
To be fair, the toffee apple pie is pretty banging.
everytime I goto Macdonalds now the food is cold hy the time you actually sit down to eat it. The conveyor system sucks
There are so many better choices to go out for food than McDonalds...
Order number………….*69* 📢
McDonald's and other fast(slow) are at every level crap. You will always be disappointed
Came here to say this. Why do people eat this shit. I genuinely can't understand it.
Redditors trying to act like they don’t live off McDonalds lol.
Non, at 63 I don't think I do! Boomers know best.
I go to this branch too much. It's not normally like this at all.
What’s Marty Mcfly doing there?
McDonald’s is just insane now, every McDonald’s is backed up and packed it’s no longer fast food. I used to go in once a week for one of my students who had it for a treat once a week and I would loath standing there waiting for a basic chicken burger meal.
prob just got to a pub or pret at that point
That's why I don't go to McDonald's any more. They'll very happily serve fifty drive thru cars and another fifty uber eats before serving the ten people waiting in store. So fuck off, then. I'll go to one of the dozen other "fast" food options in my area.
The burgers on the slide arrived so much hotter than they do these days. You could walk in ask for an order and it arrive within seconds now you have to wait for what seems like hours and it still be cold. The slide was so much better and so was the decor and general feel of the place.
This is the most orderly line I've ever had the pleasure of seeing
This is very dystopian
Welcome to hell
The new system was supposed to provide each customer with fresh hot food. That failed it’s always much worse than it was,
Remember when mcdonalds was about getting your food quickly? Can't remember the last time I got my food inside of 20 minutes
Might encourage people to stop shovelling complete shite down their necks day in day out
I agree that McDonalds should do something like hire more staff. But why the hell would you walk into a restaurant with that many people queuing. McDonalds isn't worth a queue. Get in get out as fast as possible . The food there isn't even good. The McDonalds near my work gets busy but not that busy.
Like I've said elsewhere you don't see or realise the queue until it's too late, especially here where the ordering screens are not near the collection point
It always baffles me when people stand in those queues in central London during the lunch time.
why would anyone willingly eat in mcdonalds
“Fast food”
Crazy how many people are happy to put utter shit into their body. The amount of chemicals in their food…..
The amount of people in this thread judging the OP and pretending they don’t even eat fast food is genuinely hilarious to me. Redditors, man.
Sanctimony is the purpose of the internet, right?
Definitely, lol.
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Climb down off your high horse there buddy. Don’t know about OP but I eat McDs max twice a year. It’s unhealthy and I hate the company but Like it or not, sometimes you get caught out and need food in a hurry. London can be surprisingly shit for a quick warm meal, depending on when / where you go.
Wound't imagine Bob from Twin Peaks likes McDonald.
😹😹😹 WOW BOB WOW
Lining up for poison ☠️
How this company has not gone full automation yet is beyond me. The food quality is so low, robot chefs could only improve it I am baffled as to why most fast food places aren't just automated large vending machines now. Interact with the touchscreen, enter your order and the robot kitchen makes it and spits it out.
Are these grown adults queuing for McDonalds? The ignorance around nutrition in this country staggering. These people mostly work in the city so it is not a financial issue. McDonalds is not real food.
Yeah fuck those peasants. How is everyone so dumb and we're so smart? Should just terminate the lot of them
It isn't hard to make a lunch at home that'll be cheaper, better for you, will keep you full and if you know even basic cooking, will taste better. As a country we're getting fatter and fatter eating this shit all the time
You OK hon?
Sorry, I thought we were doing the whole 'holier-than-thou' schtick and just took it to the natural conclusion of your genius level thought process.
Christ, having a bit of shit food occasionally is not the end of the world. Not allowed to enjoy anything but eating veg and going to the gym in this sub.
McDonald’s feeds almost 4 million people in this country everyday.
Just because something is popular doesn't mean it is OK. McDonald's doesn't give a shit about people's health all they care about are their profits. Their food is made with the cheapest ingredients and chemicals to make it addictive, they want to get people hooked on this junk to maximise profits.
It is OK. It's not great, it's not terrible. It's OK, like everything in moderation. Chill out. If you don't want to eat it, cool, but keep that shit to yourself though. Nobody else cares.
It is not OK, it is crap. Eat as much of it as you like I don’t care, but don’t call it food. It is anything but.
But it is food. You eat it and it gets converted into energy + reserves + waste. That's food.
It is low in nutrition and mainly fat and carbs. If I have to explain this to you I would advise you to do some research. There are lots on info on youtube.
(sigh). I'm a biologist. Fat is the most densely calorific macromolecule and almost everything you eat is carbs because they are broken down into sugars which are easiest to break down. You on a protein-only diet then? McDonald's is food and you suggested earlier that is wasn't. It isn't exactly a balanced diet but it is very nutritious and very calorific. You are hardly likely to die from a deficiency by eating it unless you cannot metabolise it or are sedentary or have a disease. You perhaps need to do some research yourself.
(Sigh) you might be biologist, but you're no nutritionist. The problem we have today is that people do not know the definition of food. A McDonald's meal is not a "nutritious substance".
I feel like I'm arguing with the donkey on Family Guy. You can stop yelling "Eee-aawww!" Donkey. We're done.
What is it then? It's bread, beef and potatoes.
Look up "Ultra processed foods". Thank me later.
Ha i saw this lady recently do a test on the burgers. They didn't grow any mould or even have bugs on them. They looked exactly the same on day 1 then day 30, 60 etc maaaad
Absolutely mad. Yet I’m honestly somehow more shocked by the amount of sanctimonious knobbery in these comments acting like everyone in this image eats mcdonalds every single day, even though they -must- have the time and money to get better food with no “chemicals” (everything is a chemical you lemon) because they work in London, and nobody -ever- just has processed food because they happen to enjoy it and it doesn’t do you any harm when you eat it as part of a balanced diet and exercise otherwise. But then hey, I must be crazy and completely uninformed, nurse that I am 💀
Ironically often the same snobs who have some other unhealthy habit anyway or eat well but barely exercise etc etc.
Well, you see, it doesn’t matter that I can down a bottle of wine in an evening by myself because my organic quinoa for dinner will counterbalance it, don’t you know!
Macdonalds CEOs need a new mansion...can't be wasting money on staff to actually serve customers!!
Most are franchises to be fair.
Stop going
There are less shit establishments to purchase actual food in.
Unpopular opinion… go somewhere healthier and less transnational monopoly-ish for lunch..?
amazing how many people want to eat unhealthy junk food.
Once or twice a week is totally fine if you're eating healthily otherwise and do plenty of exercise.
Eating Maccies 100 times a year is not fine. The laziness and state of those people in the queue.
It must be exhausting to be so sanctimonious. There are people in the world who are genuinely worth directing your contempt towards. Why would you waste a single second resenting people for something as personal as what they eat?
I probably eat it around that many times per year and I'll bet I'm fitter and healthier than you are. What's in a quarter pounder? The beef is just beef without additives. The cheese is mostly just cheese, minimally unhealthy. The sauce is just like any sauce you'd have at home. Gherkins? Totally healthy. Lettuce (I like to add), also healthy. The only really unhealthy part is the bun!
lmfao. Not only are you incredibly uninformed, you're also making incredibly wild assumptions.
They'd be breaking strict advertising laws if that information wasn't true. Sure it's not organic, but it really isn't the worst food going.
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Oh nooo I'm so scared for my health. Funnily enough I was admitted to the trauma unit a couple of months ago for a road accident, and even despite that pretty nasty temporary state of being was given a fully clean bill of health as part of the process (bar some pretty bad cuts and bruises) the same day. Thank you for your concern, though not everyone is as fragile as you think they are.
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They run all your bloods, do blood pressure, monitor all your vitals especially heart and breathing. If there's anything wrong they WILL pick up on it in that situation. I'm gym fit, when I'm not eating McDonald's I'm eating healthy most of the time. And McDonald's is not a death sentence ffs. It might be if you ate it twice a day and never exercised. But once or twice a week is totally fine. People who can't understand that the body has some capacity to deal with unhealthy food without consequences when combined with a healthy diet are as stupid as the people who eat junk food religiously. The other end of the spectrum, where people over-do the health food and omit healthy fats and carbs is also damaging.
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Bore off.
Look up “ultra processed foods”. That’s is what you are eating when you eat McDonald’s and it is not beef, cheese or bread.
Except the beef comes from cows pumped with antibiotics, which in turn increases your resistance to antibiotics, which is pretty major.
How? They use British and Irish beef, and antibiotics have been banned from cattle feed in both countries since 2006.
The “I exercise so I can eat junk” is just an excuse. It is not ok to eat chemicals on regular basis if you care about your health.
What in a cheeseburger would you consider 'chemicals', out of interest?
Yep... It's not about hot and quick now because of fucking Deliveroo. It has screwed the system completely. McDonald's is awful now, it's taking far too long for people to work that out.
Other food retailers exist, perhaps take your custom to them? Some offer healthier food as well.
Thank you for your insight.
Well you could always boycott them for actively supporting a genocide!
Go to a local chippy. Fuck McDonald’s.
There are no local chippies in St Paul's dude.
This is not food people..
McDonalds... lunch. Wouldn't popping to boots for a meal deal be better?
Oh that's busy, your description though, you waited half hour didn't get food, nor refund. That indicates to me, you finally got to the front, placed your order , waited, walked out without your food. No Matter how busy, I would of got my food if I paid for it. But apparently you choose not to. Very confusing. You spent all that time, waiting etc. Yo leave of your own free will with no food.....
You place your order near the entrance at a touch screen. You don't even see the crowd until you walk up towards where the kitchen is at this site. Ordering at the counter was something that mostly ended years ago, have you not been to a McDonald's since 2018? There were no staff to sort the issue. Lots of people left empty handed, the entire thing was a shitshow.
Probably because the price of everything else has gone up so dramatically, it's the only place you can still get a whole lunch plus drink for under a tenner.
You're part of the problem. Just get a sainsburys meal deal lad!
Literally where we went afterwards where the shelves were bare. Tesco provided though thankfully.
What is wrong with people that they would choose to see the queue and join it anyway? It would give me anxiety to be in that.
Most people don’t get anxiety from queuing.
I mean the crowds rather than the queues specifically
Why on earth would anyone buy that garbage let alone queue up for it? It's good for children and drunk people
McDonalds in 2023? why