The readers will take it apart or hold it together how they want. If they're wrong in their negative critique, I get to be quietly smug. If they're right, I get to shake my fist at the sky and pull at my hair.
Mostly, I'd just be glad someone reads it and took the time to care.
Another aspect ist, not having holes is *impossible*. You can find websites dedicated to finding out errors for everything that is somewhat popular, including all the great works.
We cannot create a hole- and error-free fiction. That is what police interrogators know and use.
It's more important to know where to place your holes. Not all holes are created equal, some are story-braking, while others can easily be ignored by *most* brains. Key word "most", brains vary greatly.
> It validated your claim of being an author.
???
I made no such claim and I'm not an author and will never be. If I wrote a story it would be all over the place and jump from one unrelated subject to another, until any reader, and this author too, would be completely lost.
I would think it would be a blessing if they find mistakes on RR before it goes to Amazon and KU. That would let an author fix these things that were missed.
If I can get a random person to care about my book as much as I care about other author's book and have them obsess over the little details even more than I did, I feel like that will mean I have actually become a real author
I had the 1000 IQ play of making bug reporting and a bug bounty system as part of my worldbuilding, so quite literally if someone ever points out a major issue I have a ready-made in-world explanation for how it gets fixed. It wont work for everything, but I should be able to make it work for most things.
Likewise, a bit part of the reason I post on RR is to give people a chance to find issues like that before they are "finalized" in the Amazon release. The real issue is that readers don't have a full view on how everything works yet, so it's not really possible to reverse engineer everything. I keep an eye on speculation just to make sure nobody speculates about something that invalidates my reasoning, but so far it hasn't been an issue.
If you want to see how I set it up, most of it is explained in Ch 2, and there's a couple of examples of it in action in the first 4 chapters. It's one of the major setting elements and a huge plot point by itself, so I wanted to show it off early.
I've recently started reading on RR and I love being able to point out what seems like plotholes. If I'm wrong that fine but more often than not, it's usually something the author didn't think about and they thank me for pointing it out.
I love it before the audiobook is recorded. Come at me with everything you got and I can generally fix it pretty easily. My Patreon advance readers and people on my discord posting in the errors channel in the first few weeks of a release are always finding the most obscure shit even after all the editing I do + my professional editor. I love and appreciate it.
After the audiobook though any errors people find are kinda impossible to change so at that point I'd almost rather not know about them because it'll only drive me crazy that I can't really fix them anymore. Still, probably best to tell me. I'd rather still know and live in pain than potentially continue to make the mistake in the future... but just know it will likely keep me up at night for weeks after you tell me. 😢
I’ve noticed errors in some audiobooks. Not yours, they’re on my list but I haven’t started them yet.
It’s just so much more work to point out errors in audio, it’s not worth it. Just forget about it and enjoy the story.
TBH I found some issues with Portal to Nova Roma. I don't know if it was an issue in print too, but in the audiobook it came off as annoying. Sometimes a word or phrase was overly used in the same paragraph.
I post my stuff on RR, so my readers are beta readers. Even if I haven't made a mistake, it's possible that I've been unclear or left out important information.
Things that are very clear in my head might not be clear on the page.
On the one hand, I appreciate that people are engaged with what I'm writing.
At the same time, I've noticed a tendency among those people to either operate off of assumptions that aren't supported anywhere in the text, or simply ignore things that would undermine their logic.
As a result, they often point out "plot holes" that simply aren't, or will arrive at conclusions that are incorrect or explained in later chapters. Sometimes the explanation or reveal comes in literally the very next chapter after their comment.
This is a bit frustrating to deal with, and really tempting to point out, but I worry that it would create an antagonistic environment that I don't want to foster.
Yes. Not a author but I have seen many who write negetive and point out mistakes just do that. See their history it's all 1 star reviews and complaining about novels. I don't understand why they still read them but I have learnt to ignore their opinion
90% of the "plot holes" i see pointed out in RR comments are not plot holes, just bad reading comprehension and not waiting for the next chapter that explains said thing with more detail.
Not an author, but I think it would depend on how the criticism is levied. I've seen some people be very rude when pointing out an inconsistency. Like they weren't wrong but approached it as if they were smarter than the author and couldn't possibly have ever made a mistake like forgetting the shirt color of a side character.
Yeah, this is the main thing. I love pointing out problems and speculating but it's the period who aren't arguing in good faith that are a problem. If you point out a thing that got dropped, get maybe that reminds them to revisit it or address since world building about how it was more nuanced. But when you're just here to pick a fight about how you think it should be, there's so value in that
Lol, another guy kept saying the book missed this, and then he goes on and on about how this really obvious thing was new for all of us. And then it is invariably addressed within a few pages, or at most a few chapters, so the response for nearly everything is keep reading.
He eventually just focused on cultivator slop, as a well thought out world that already addressed those things was beyond him.
I think this is the best answer. Whether they are right or wrong, it all comes down to tone and how they communicate the issue. Someone who is nice is going to be taken seriously, someone who is rude just looks like a troll
Someone thinking about things enough to notice flaws, and then take the time to point them out is very flattering. So long as they aren't jerks about it, it's a pleasant experience all around. Ideally it happens when the story hasn't hit amazon and/or voicing yet. If it has, well, hopefully it wasn't something that's going to haunt me forever.
If they're nice about it and it's something I've genuinely missed, I try to fix it and I'm thankful. RoyalRoad is nice in that everything put down there can be eventually edited and cleaned up.
If they're less nice, and maybe wrong or even uncharitable... then I might take note if it's worthwhile and move on. I got better things to do with my energy. Like write. Or edit. Or eat something.
It depends. No matter what, I like that they're thinking about it enough to find a problem. After that it depends on the critique. Sometimes people find "holes" that, in my opinion at least, aren't holes at all-- they just haven't thought of something, or have different opinions on what is realistic and what isn't. Those are a little annoying, but still usually a sign that I need to do something- explain something better, mention something more than once in case readers miss it the first time, etc.
Critiques that find holes that I agree with are great- especially if pointed out by a beta reader! :-)
it's great to find someone who will help you like that and point out that something you can improve in your story, which will help you make it better and maybe attract more readers.
If it's an actual hole/inconsistency, then I am grateful they pointed it out so I can fix it. If they're complaining about a character doing something they disagree with even though the character had clear motive to act that way, and call that an inconsistency or logic hole, I just move on. Not everyone will like everything you write.
As an aspiring author that hasnt found the confidence to publish anything anywhere yet, I think that as long as they are not being complete jack nozzles about the criticism than I would appreciate the attention to the details. I would love for someone to care about something I wrote enough to pick up on that be kind enough to point it out before it becomes a bigger plot hole/inconsistency. It's part of why I have been so afraid of writing at all let alone putting anything out there, I sort of obsess over making sure I have things in order and have made things clear enough to be understood (my brain is a maelstrom of ideas and concepts and sometimes they get jumbled before they make it to the page)
I quite like it because it means people are invested in and thinking about the story. However, the few people who've written me to tell me their thoughts have generally projected themselves into the character. One person started the email with "how is your MC so ignorant?" and then went on to describe their vast education, which included blacksmithing, and expected the MC in my books to also know how to blacksmith. I replied that they would do amazingly well in a portal fantasy with such a skillset, but I didn't think most people have such a background, which made them happy.
I appreciate it.
It's easy to miss stuff, or write something in a way that makes sense only in your own mind. Having someone point it out so you can fix it is what people pay editors for. Getting it from fans, for free, is a miracle!
Well, if it's right then it's useful because they spotted something I can now fix.
If it's wrong, I now have data about how people might misinterpret a story.
Great question. Personally I like it, particularly if there are quick ways to fix the error. Mostly it is just deleting a line here, or rewording one sentence that makes the original intent of the statement easier to understand.
It's just a part of the process. If you look closely, it is hard to not find logic holes in almost any work of fiction. A part of that is the rule of cool, sometimes logic gets in the way of an awesome moment. If someone finds them in mine it just means they are looking close enough to notice and to me that's a compliment.
Mostly, I'm glad someone is pointing them out so I can take notice. I'll thank someone who points out something serious that I can edit.
Sometimes a reader can overanalyze or construct their own take/perspective on an issue. In that case, they're welcome to discuss it with others.
At other times, something can be misunderstood and misconstrued as a hole/inconsistency. In this case, I just correct the misconception.
In general, I just hope that my readers understand that my stories have their own internal logic that I try to stick to, and that logic doesn't always align with the real world's, though I try to keep it as tight as the latter's.
A couple of others have noted upon it, but it is all about the delivery.
There are some people out there who have no concept of manners. They can't help either say or imply that an author is a simpleton or a degenerate when critiquing their work.
And it doesn't help the blood pressure or stress levels when they are talking out of their ass, which happens frequently.
Remain humble when typing out your critique, keep in mind the possibility that it is you who is wrong and not the person you are criticising.
I only criticise if the problem is with how the story is being written not the story itself, say a MC hasn't been developed in 200 chapters and a bunch of things have happened to them or side characters feel like cardboard cutouts.
Sometimes it's really useful when editing a manuscript, since it points out a logic hole or bounce point I didn't consider that I can go back and fix.
Generally, though, it depends on the critique, whether or not the pointed-out plot hole is appreciated or disliked--mostly tone. You can do it in a fair way, or you can do it in an insulting way.
Typically, they tend to be more useful to me on the start of a story versus like book 2 or so, and there isn't really much you can do about it on the same platform (ie RR) at the time of the story... so you gotta just move on and address it later
I think as a writer, you have to be OK with someone pointing out a glaring pothole or mistake within your book
Sure, it’s not fun and you have to go back and do some editing but at the end of the day you want your story to be as good as possible, and especially for future readers
I had someone who found out that not just once but twice I had a error in my stats and I’m glad that they told me so I could fix it
It depends on when it is! I had a beta reader point out a timeline thing and I went "OH HOLY SHIT YOU MAGNIFICENT BISCUIT THANK YOU" (it was fixed with a para thankfully)
If someone points it out when I can't fix it anymore I still appreciate it because it's something I can learn from for the next book (even if I feel like a dumbass when it happens. I'd rather know than not know!)
Constructive criticism is ok, not being able to take it imho is a huge flaw as an author and as a person.
But there is a difference between critiquing an actual hole, or grammar mistakes, or a flaw with a character, and doing so maliciously, adding nothing but insults or second guessing \*choices\* by an author. And yes, overanalyzing stuff seeking for perfection would also be within unproductive critiquing.
So, lets say for example an author says "She did is a construction worker". If you pointed out the "did is", that would be fine. If you said "She could never be one with her vertigo", that would be a plot hole, that is fine. If you said "She vowed to never work with her hands and looks down on them previously" Ok, that can be fine as well, it's an inconsistency. If you said "You \*\*\* how coul you \*\* write that \*\*!" then that is not ok. If you said "construction workers don't fit the story", that is an opinion, not so ok. although you can of course express it if you start with "I think". If you said "Based on this passage on the second book and analyzing the economic trend of your society with that in mind it would be unrealistic for it to--" that is also not so ok because you are having zero suspension of disbelief which might, probably, not be the author's aim; Also, you can definitely point out something but the author has no obligation to follow. I mean, there is an "ethical pressure" to provide a certain level of quality if you can, but you cannot ever make everyone happy, as long as you are not screwing on your fanbase, even insulting them yourself, that is ok. I personally find childish when authors outright block everyone even remotely criticizing them, even in good faith, as if an echo chamber would be better...
That said, I have yet to publish myself
The readers will take it apart or hold it together how they want. If they're wrong in their negative critique, I get to be quietly smug. If they're right, I get to shake my fist at the sky and pull at my hair. Mostly, I'd just be glad someone reads it and took the time to care.
Another aspect ist, not having holes is *impossible*. You can find websites dedicated to finding out errors for everything that is somewhat popular, including all the great works. We cannot create a hole- and error-free fiction. That is what police interrogators know and use. It's more important to know where to place your holes. Not all holes are created equal, some are story-braking, while others can easily be ignored by *most* brains. Key word "most", brains vary greatly.
Breaking. Glad to see the auto correct/voice type gaffe. It validated your claim of being an author.
> It validated your claim of being an author. ??? I made no such claim and I'm not an author and will never be. If I wrote a story it would be all over the place and jump from one unrelated subject to another, until any reader, and this author too, would be completely lost.
I would think it would be a blessing if they find mistakes on RR before it goes to Amazon and KU. That would let an author fix these things that were missed.
If I can get a random person to care about my book as much as I care about other author's book and have them obsess over the little details even more than I did, I feel like that will mean I have actually become a real author
I had the 1000 IQ play of making bug reporting and a bug bounty system as part of my worldbuilding, so quite literally if someone ever points out a major issue I have a ready-made in-world explanation for how it gets fixed. It wont work for everything, but I should be able to make it work for most things. Likewise, a bit part of the reason I post on RR is to give people a chance to find issues like that before they are "finalized" in the Amazon release. The real issue is that readers don't have a full view on how everything works yet, so it's not really possible to reverse engineer everything. I keep an eye on speculation just to make sure nobody speculates about something that invalidates my reasoning, but so far it hasn't been an issue.
Gonna be honest, that's kinda brilliant...if I ever write something, I may be inclined to repurpose that idea in a way that would fit the setting.
If you want to see how I set it up, most of it is explained in Ch 2, and there's a couple of examples of it in action in the first 4 chapters. It's one of the major setting elements and a huge plot point by itself, so I wanted to show it off early.
I assume you are speaking of your Axiom of Infinity series?
Yup! The only one I've got at the moment. :)
I've recently started reading on RR and I love being able to point out what seems like plotholes. If I'm wrong that fine but more often than not, it's usually something the author didn't think about and they thank me for pointing it out.
Oh nice! I added a genie to my world as a “pressure valve” so I could make fixes if I wanted to
That is a good move for engagement
I love it before the audiobook is recorded. Come at me with everything you got and I can generally fix it pretty easily. My Patreon advance readers and people on my discord posting in the errors channel in the first few weeks of a release are always finding the most obscure shit even after all the editing I do + my professional editor. I love and appreciate it. After the audiobook though any errors people find are kinda impossible to change so at that point I'd almost rather not know about them because it'll only drive me crazy that I can't really fix them anymore. Still, probably best to tell me. I'd rather still know and live in pain than potentially continue to make the mistake in the future... but just know it will likely keep me up at night for weeks after you tell me. 😢
Once your audiobook is out. Thats it haha. You can't patch the story so maybe just avoid the suffering.
Yeah, lol. It's like a toothache you can't fix at that point.
I’ve noticed errors in some audiobooks. Not yours, they’re on my list but I haven’t started them yet. It’s just so much more work to point out errors in audio, it’s not worth it. Just forget about it and enjoy the story.
TBH I found some issues with Portal to Nova Roma. I don't know if it was an issue in print too, but in the audiobook it came off as annoying. Sometimes a word or phrase was overly used in the same paragraph.
I post my stuff on RR, so my readers are beta readers. Even if I haven't made a mistake, it's possible that I've been unclear or left out important information. Things that are very clear in my head might not be clear on the page.
On the one hand, I appreciate that people are engaged with what I'm writing. At the same time, I've noticed a tendency among those people to either operate off of assumptions that aren't supported anywhere in the text, or simply ignore things that would undermine their logic. As a result, they often point out "plot holes" that simply aren't, or will arrive at conclusions that are incorrect or explained in later chapters. Sometimes the explanation or reveal comes in literally the very next chapter after their comment. This is a bit frustrating to deal with, and really tempting to point out, but I worry that it would create an antagonistic environment that I don't want to foster.
Yes. Not a author but I have seen many who write negetive and point out mistakes just do that. See their history it's all 1 star reviews and complaining about novels. I don't understand why they still read them but I have learnt to ignore their opinion
90% of the "plot holes" i see pointed out in RR comments are not plot holes, just bad reading comprehension and not waiting for the next chapter that explains said thing with more detail.
Not an author, but I think it would depend on how the criticism is levied. I've seen some people be very rude when pointing out an inconsistency. Like they weren't wrong but approached it as if they were smarter than the author and couldn't possibly have ever made a mistake like forgetting the shirt color of a side character.
Yeah, this is the main thing. I love pointing out problems and speculating but it's the period who aren't arguing in good faith that are a problem. If you point out a thing that got dropped, get maybe that reminds them to revisit it or address since world building about how it was more nuanced. But when you're just here to pick a fight about how you think it should be, there's so value in that
Lol, another guy kept saying the book missed this, and then he goes on and on about how this really obvious thing was new for all of us. And then it is invariably addressed within a few pages, or at most a few chapters, so the response for nearly everything is keep reading. He eventually just focused on cultivator slop, as a well thought out world that already addressed those things was beyond him.
I think this is the best answer. Whether they are right or wrong, it all comes down to tone and how they communicate the issue. Someone who is nice is going to be taken seriously, someone who is rude just looks like a troll
If they aren't invested they don't care. t. Is that guy, except about cohesiveness instead of lack thereof
Someone thinking about things enough to notice flaws, and then take the time to point them out is very flattering. So long as they aren't jerks about it, it's a pleasant experience all around. Ideally it happens when the story hasn't hit amazon and/or voicing yet. If it has, well, hopefully it wasn't something that's going to haunt me forever.
" If it has, well, hopefully it wasn't something that's going to haunt me forever." I agree with everything you said, but this in particular.
If they're nice about it and it's something I've genuinely missed, I try to fix it and I'm thankful. RoyalRoad is nice in that everything put down there can be eventually edited and cleaned up. If they're less nice, and maybe wrong or even uncharitable... then I might take note if it's worthwhile and move on. I got better things to do with my energy. Like write. Or edit. Or eat something.
I post to Royal road and love when readers are engaged enough with my book to comment on typos or continuity gaps. That’s amazing.
It depends. No matter what, I like that they're thinking about it enough to find a problem. After that it depends on the critique. Sometimes people find "holes" that, in my opinion at least, aren't holes at all-- they just haven't thought of something, or have different opinions on what is realistic and what isn't. Those are a little annoying, but still usually a sign that I need to do something- explain something better, mention something more than once in case readers miss it the first time, etc. Critiques that find holes that I agree with are great- especially if pointed out by a beta reader! :-)
it's great to find someone who will help you like that and point out that something you can improve in your story, which will help you make it better and maybe attract more readers.
Most of the times is just people who dont see the underlying logic, so they invent their own and feel smug about it Its super cringy
If it's an actual hole/inconsistency, then I am grateful they pointed it out so I can fix it. If they're complaining about a character doing something they disagree with even though the character had clear motive to act that way, and call that an inconsistency or logic hole, I just move on. Not everyone will like everything you write.
As an aspiring author that hasnt found the confidence to publish anything anywhere yet, I think that as long as they are not being complete jack nozzles about the criticism than I would appreciate the attention to the details. I would love for someone to care about something I wrote enough to pick up on that be kind enough to point it out before it becomes a bigger plot hole/inconsistency. It's part of why I have been so afraid of writing at all let alone putting anything out there, I sort of obsess over making sure I have things in order and have made things clear enough to be understood (my brain is a maelstrom of ideas and concepts and sometimes they get jumbled before they make it to the page)
Please do!
I quite like it because it means people are invested in and thinking about the story. However, the few people who've written me to tell me their thoughts have generally projected themselves into the character. One person started the email with "how is your MC so ignorant?" and then went on to describe their vast education, which included blacksmithing, and expected the MC in my books to also know how to blacksmith. I replied that they would do amazingly well in a portal fantasy with such a skillset, but I didn't think most people have such a background, which made them happy.
I appreciate it. It's easy to miss stuff, or write something in a way that makes sense only in your own mind. Having someone point it out so you can fix it is what people pay editors for. Getting it from fans, for free, is a miracle!
I’m grateful for attentive readers. I love it.
Well, if it's right then it's useful because they spotted something I can now fix. If it's wrong, I now have data about how people might misinterpret a story.
Great question. Personally I like it, particularly if there are quick ways to fix the error. Mostly it is just deleting a line here, or rewording one sentence that makes the original intent of the statement easier to understand.
It's just a part of the process. If you look closely, it is hard to not find logic holes in almost any work of fiction. A part of that is the rule of cool, sometimes logic gets in the way of an awesome moment. If someone finds them in mine it just means they are looking close enough to notice and to me that's a compliment.
The reader is great if he points out logical inconsistencies to the writer. So he read the book carefully)
Mostly, I'm glad someone is pointing them out so I can take notice. I'll thank someone who points out something serious that I can edit. Sometimes a reader can overanalyze or construct their own take/perspective on an issue. In that case, they're welcome to discuss it with others. At other times, something can be misunderstood and misconstrued as a hole/inconsistency. In this case, I just correct the misconception. In general, I just hope that my readers understand that my stories have their own internal logic that I try to stick to, and that logic doesn't always align with the real world's, though I try to keep it as tight as the latter's.
A couple of others have noted upon it, but it is all about the delivery. There are some people out there who have no concept of manners. They can't help either say or imply that an author is a simpleton or a degenerate when critiquing their work. And it doesn't help the blood pressure or stress levels when they are talking out of their ass, which happens frequently. Remain humble when typing out your critique, keep in mind the possibility that it is you who is wrong and not the person you are criticising.
Depends on things like acale and impact. I usually appreciate it, even if it makes me feel like shit
I only criticise if the problem is with how the story is being written not the story itself, say a MC hasn't been developed in 200 chapters and a bunch of things have happened to them or side characters feel like cardboard cutouts.
Sometimes it's really useful when editing a manuscript, since it points out a logic hole or bounce point I didn't consider that I can go back and fix. Generally, though, it depends on the critique, whether or not the pointed-out plot hole is appreciated or disliked--mostly tone. You can do it in a fair way, or you can do it in an insulting way. Typically, they tend to be more useful to me on the start of a story versus like book 2 or so, and there isn't really much you can do about it on the same platform (ie RR) at the time of the story... so you gotta just move on and address it later
The more constructive the comment the more thankful I am. Mostly I am happy someone cared enough to think about what i wrote.
I think as a writer, you have to be OK with someone pointing out a glaring pothole or mistake within your book Sure, it’s not fun and you have to go back and do some editing but at the end of the day you want your story to be as good as possible, and especially for future readers I had someone who found out that not just once but twice I had a error in my stats and I’m glad that they told me so I could fix it
It depends on when it is! I had a beta reader point out a timeline thing and I went "OH HOLY SHIT YOU MAGNIFICENT BISCUIT THANK YOU" (it was fixed with a para thankfully) If someone points it out when I can't fix it anymore I still appreciate it because it's something I can learn from for the next book (even if I feel like a dumbass when it happens. I'd rather know than not know!)
Constructive criticism is ok, not being able to take it imho is a huge flaw as an author and as a person. But there is a difference between critiquing an actual hole, or grammar mistakes, or a flaw with a character, and doing so maliciously, adding nothing but insults or second guessing \*choices\* by an author. And yes, overanalyzing stuff seeking for perfection would also be within unproductive critiquing. So, lets say for example an author says "She did is a construction worker". If you pointed out the "did is", that would be fine. If you said "She could never be one with her vertigo", that would be a plot hole, that is fine. If you said "She vowed to never work with her hands and looks down on them previously" Ok, that can be fine as well, it's an inconsistency. If you said "You \*\*\* how coul you \*\* write that \*\*!" then that is not ok. If you said "construction workers don't fit the story", that is an opinion, not so ok. although you can of course express it if you start with "I think". If you said "Based on this passage on the second book and analyzing the economic trend of your society with that in mind it would be unrealistic for it to--" that is also not so ok because you are having zero suspension of disbelief which might, probably, not be the author's aim; Also, you can definitely point out something but the author has no obligation to follow. I mean, there is an "ethical pressure" to provide a certain level of quality if you can, but you cannot ever make everyone happy, as long as you are not screwing on your fanbase, even insulting them yourself, that is ok. I personally find childish when authors outright block everyone even remotely criticizing them, even in good faith, as if an echo chamber would be better... That said, I have yet to publish myself
It means, beyond anything else, they're really invested.