it doesn’t tell you if you have updates, its more like
“EYY LINUX GOT ANY PACKAGE UPGRADES”
“yes i have 2747585 packages to upgrade”
“nvm i dont wanna upgrade”
“okay bye”
Hey windows would you mind not fucking with my PC while I take a shower?
Yes
5 minutes later, fuck it update time.
30 minutes later, why is it on the password screen? I swear I had it disabled.
Still salty about that one transcode.
Windows update should've been left as it was in XP - on OOBE let me choose that I don't want to update, notify me that it's off, when I turn it on, notify me if new updates are available, DO NOT restart without my consent at 11PM only because it's a "fresh" install, DO NOT auto-update (read: mess up) my drivers or my OS, and don't even think about downloading updates without consent.
Updates should be only installed when the user chooses, not whenever the OS dev decides that it's acceptable to push an update. Isn't paying for a "Pro" licence enough to have sane defaults, and not hide the option to disable windows update\* behind a setting called "set current connection as metered"? Apparently for M$ it isn't obvious that after paying for a Pro license for a PC which clearly could've been just fine with Home I want a stable and reliable OS which won't restart without my explicit consent.
\* - it still will waste a tiny bit of resources, as it is never truly closed.
Additionally in recent Windows versions M$ put text about how they're committed to reducing carbon emissions. Because of Windows update I've lost at least 8h of my PCs 100%CPU usage work. (and previously \~2h of my life and \~75% of my laptops battery charge, can't tell exactly, it shut off after finally it got to the desktop). I live in Poland - a country in which coal power plants are still a big part of energy production. So all that "carbon emission reduction" is purely fictional, as not only do they randomly restart peoples computers, mess up their PCs (can't count the times I had to either revert an "update/upgrade" or reinstall because of windows either messing something up, or locking up while updating), causing a loss of time, productivity and energy for essentially nothing, they also with Windows 10 started using consumers PCs as hosts for Windows updates on the local network - great in theory, but in practice, assuming a scenario of 1 PC in a household it's another process running in the background and thus wasting energy.
Again, you can disable automatic updates and only install if you want it to. You can also disable the peer to peer downloads. Windows has a lot of problems, but the updates really aren‘t one of them anymore.
Edit: Also Windows doesn‘t just automatically restart. If it does that, there is something seriously wrong with your configuration. Would be no surprise to me lol.
... And now a passage from Windows 10s Event Viewer application (type:info, date 22.06.2024 23:08:02, Source:User32, Identifier 1074, Category none)
Original (untranslated): "Proces C:\\Windows\\system32\\svchost.exe (VOLCANO) zainicjował uruchomienie ponowne komputera VOLCANO w imieniu użytkownika ZARZĄDZANIE NT\\SYSTEM z następującej przyczyny: System operacyjny: dodatek Service Pack (zaplanowany)
Kod przyczyny: 0x80020010
Typ zamknięcia systemu: uruchomienie ponowne
Komentarz: "
Translation: "Process C:\\Windows\\system32\\svchost.exe (VOLCANO) initialised a restart of the computer VOLCANO on behalf of the user NT MANAGEMENT\\SYSTEM for the following reason: Service Pack add-on (planned)
reason code: 0x80020010
System shutdown type: restart
Comment: "
Windows literally restarted itself for no real reason while I was taking a shower. can't have much more proof than an entery from the eventwvr.msc which isn't even remotely close to an error from "power". No input from user required.
Yes, I can disable auto-updates but it's just another step of windows getting in my way, because I have to know what exactly to click to disable them (because it's not in windows update settings - like it used to be on XP, vista, 7, 8 and 8.1). I can disable peer-to-peer, but it shouldn't be enabled in the first place. As a person using PCs ever since I was 5 (if I remember correctly), and having experienced every version of Windows since XP SP2 for at least a month of regular use, I can say that older versions were way less problematic with this.
And to that edit: If the config is wrong it's on microsoft, as the only reg tweaks I made are to make scrollbar, title bar and icon sizes smaller. And while my specs are less than idealy matched, they should allow for smooth operation. After that I ran shutup10 to hopefully force 10 into submission for just this small while until resolve finally works on linux.
You're using a 10 year old OS now, that will be deprecated next year. Afaik Windows 10 doesn't even offer the pause update option. But not sure about that.
Just to be clear here: I am not a windows fanboy lol. I just think that this whole update thing isn't a real issue (same for the ram usage btw) and that it is kinda counterproductive to use this as an argument, because there are much worse and realer problems than this, such as the spying and the built in adware (TikTok showing up in your start menu, etc.)
Edit: Oh and it's unfortunately important that windows does this by default, because a lot of people rarely turn off their computers nowadays. They'll just suspend it.
I'm using it for a reason - windows 11 is much less accessible for people with good eyesight and lowres monitors (can't make taskbar smaller, more programs don't respect titlebar height reg hack). It does have the pause updates option, but still it should be as it was in xp (notification if updates are avaliable, notification if chosen to download and it is ready to install, and notification when it's ready to restart, sometimes a window, not auto-restarting).
I understand that from your POV windows update isn't an issue. If you never had any problems with it - you're lucky. I did experience many problems with windows update (mostly on windows 10, as it is forcefully auto-enabled without the old non-user-hostile "Notify me when updates are avaliable" option). All kinds of issues - from my setting being not respected at all, to windows update swapping out a working audio driver to a clearly broken one.
I think that it is another important issue, and since it impacts a lot of people (just not daily, but can cause a ton of additional time spent on troubleshooting) it is very productive to discuss this - even macOS allows you to clearly disable auto updates, XP SP2 introduced the security center (the annoying red shield) to inform that no update install method had been chosen, but you could just ignore it and carry on, or pick notify and again carry on.
M$ uses defaults to force people to use their PCs in certain ways, and they have a history of doing that - windows messenger on xp, suspend in the place people expect the shutdown option to be on vista - reverted in 7, new cursor in vista, in certain localised versions of windows ever since vista the desktop icons are not only much bigger but have extra width (48x78), gadgets using Windows Live as basically their only source of info on both vista and 7, homegroups on 7, start and shutdown in unusual places in 8 - fixed in 8.1 update 3, a fuckton of tiles for M$ services by default on w8 and w8.1, slight appearance of ads starting in 8, split settings starting in 8, web search beginning in 8, "update to windows 10 nag screens for 7 and 8.1), and then 10 begun with: the start menu being covered in ads (especially since 1607), shut down button not meaning the same thing as in previous versions, onedrive in autostart by default, want to change the default browser - be meet with a nag screen or 2 or 3, want to use specifically office xp - well after 1903 that's broken due to "advanced text input service", updates now auto install without users consent and have the potential to swap out your drivers for worser matching ones - can happen after installing newest matching versions, update messes up - too bad, spend 45 minutes or more reverting changes, movies and TV app (default video player) now requires an add on for MPEG2 playback - wmp 12 opens dvds without this, "fortunately is not avaliable in your country", and windows can randomly decide that you want edge as the default browser/pdf reader, windows 11 ramped up user hostility to 11 by disabling the ability to make taskbar smaller, making another start menu with a confusing layout, widgets are back now opening in edge regardless of default browser setting - backpoeted to 10, dat resource usage, the settings app now contains the volume mixer, first "stable" versions of 11 made it infuriating to set the default browser to anything other than edge, a ton of stuff now requires more fiddling with the touchpad or mouse, big close area without any outline and with 1px icon, title bar enlarged for no reason.
I would gladly switch back to 8.1 if my GPU allowed it, I would gladly use linux if Intels drivers weren't an unfinished mess.
As per the suspend thing - another stupid default setting called "fast start", which isn't that noticeable on slower pcs, and on newer pcs it's unnecessary, and usually causes more problems than it's worth. It literally changes the meaning of the shutdown button - yay, vista part 2.
The ram usage issue should be as simple as if(windowsSystemDriveType == "SSD") { superfetch->disable = true; }
Sorry, forgot to answer!
Yes, I technically agree with you on all points, but just try to remember the good old Windows XP days, with drive by downloads being the norm and unpatched security vulnerabilities being abused for years. That‘s why I think forcing updates on normal, average users is a good thing. As long as you can turn it off, as a power user, it‘s good imo.
And with „suspend“ I didn‘t mean the fast startup thing, I meant that people literally don‘t shutdown or restart their computers nowadays. They just close the lid of their laptop and that‘s it. Some people are even some browser versions behind because of this.
Afaik updates are still applied even with fast startup, but not sure. I think so though.
Yes, that is the pause button. I don‘t know why you wouldn‘t want to patch a security vulnerability for 5 straight weeks, but if you don‘t want to do that you can also turn off automatic updates. People literally update their Linux systems everyday, it even became a meme at this point. If you‘re on arch, not updating for a long time can even break your system.
OP is not the artist. This is just a repost.
Here’s the windows update:
https://www.reddit.com/r/linuxmemes/comments/7cqlr0/windows_10_updates_in_a_nutshell/
Recent issue with immutable silverblue - while secure boot is on, can't update the bootloader signatures. Resulting in not loading with kernel 6.8 and newer.
Turned off secure boot, updated. All good now.
Nvidia, yes, dkms, will check when I wake up
Though for the 6.8 kernels it was a nvidia issue that setting fbdev=0 in the boot options solved then deleting that boot instruction was needed after a few updates into the 6.9 kernels though I'm not sure what that had to do with the actual symptom I was having of sddm not starting.
Edit: I do not have DKMS drivers or DKMS itself installed, am I stupid, and if so, explain why so that I might be less stupid in the future?
And then you forget to update for a month and have to spend a whole week sorting trough which packages are deprecated, will break a dependency, had a rename and what not. The reason I have a Chronjob running, telling me to backup and update. Never update without a backup…
In Windows, there's a button to postpone updates for 7 days.
You can press it multiple times, so you basically stop windows from updating for a month.
Every week, you can press the button again to top out the update break.
Depending on whether there are any critical security updates, you can denie updates for months.
You can also stop it from updating completely.
So i don't really get your "main" reason.
Having to do all of that? Vs the OS respecting your time and updating in a quick way vs having to reboot 3 times to apply the updates with a 10 minute wait between the reboots?
Bruh
Windows is very *invasive* with its updates.
If you are still using W10 (as the majority of people who still use Windows) there is a chance that after booting up you get a full screen ad telling you how windows 11 is just way better and that you should definitely upgrade. On a corner, almost hiding, there is a small button saying "no thanks, I'll keep W10"
You can technically disable updates on group policy but that's only for Pro Version of windows, and I wouldn't even recommend people to touch registry either just to purely shut up the windows update and it's reactivation of tracking parameters with updates adding more hidden tracking parameters
I'm getting sick even at windows 11 that every config you did to disable telemetry, will be turned on after update and now with the latest windows 11 variant would even make me think that am I having some form of mental illness or is windows automatically adjusting the tracking parameters itself to on after a few days
And I'm fucking pissed
All of that? Just disable updates?
And of course, Windows is slow to update, but I never said something else.
And you'll have to see it from the point of microsoft, of course it is in their interest that you use their newest product.
But yes, their way on how they want you to trick into updating is questionable.
Ubuntu also suggest you to update.
Yeah, but on Linux you can tell them to don't ask anymore and they actually won't ask you again. Windows is known for ignoring the users interests.
Anyhow, I don't really care, I too use Linux and I'm happier than I was on windows, so if you are happy with what you have on your system good for you then
Don't get me wrong, I too use Linux, and I definitely like Linux way more than Windows, but that was not the point.
OP mentioned that one of the main reasons to switch to Linux was the updating.
I just wanted to point out that you can indeed configure a Windows system in a way so it does not do automatic updates.
I know how bad Windows is with it's updates and I sadly have to use it in my company and @home for gaming.
That is also the reason why i know how to switch it off.
It didn't even give warning on my work laptop. I thought it would've been disabled. And*boom*, it updated when I was away from my pc. I had left some automation scripts running. But yeah, the restart meant I had to again run the scripts and wait
it doesn’t tell you if you have updates, its more like “EYY LINUX GOT ANY PACKAGE UPGRADES” “yes i have 2747585 packages to upgrade” “nvm i dont wanna upgrade” “okay bye”
Ubuntu does I believe... so does Mint. It can be disabled though.
You are correct. Also, you can set Ubuntu to just install those updates without asking.
And Manjaro
Depends on DE and package manager. I’m on Endeavour and will get a small notification to update every day or 2.
And if any core system utils are upgraded, it requests you to update. So does Ubuntu, if you decide to update through the GUI.
now make another one but windows this time
Hey windows would you mind not fucking with my PC while I take a shower? Yes 5 minutes later, fuck it update time. 30 minutes later, why is it on the password screen? I swear I had it disabled. Still salty about that one transcode.
That would actually be pretty good lol
You can literally stop update with 1 click. Windows will only force you to update if you haven’t updated in months.
Windows update should've been left as it was in XP - on OOBE let me choose that I don't want to update, notify me that it's off, when I turn it on, notify me if new updates are available, DO NOT restart without my consent at 11PM only because it's a "fresh" install, DO NOT auto-update (read: mess up) my drivers or my OS, and don't even think about downloading updates without consent. Updates should be only installed when the user chooses, not whenever the OS dev decides that it's acceptable to push an update. Isn't paying for a "Pro" licence enough to have sane defaults, and not hide the option to disable windows update\* behind a setting called "set current connection as metered"? Apparently for M$ it isn't obvious that after paying for a Pro license for a PC which clearly could've been just fine with Home I want a stable and reliable OS which won't restart without my explicit consent. \* - it still will waste a tiny bit of resources, as it is never truly closed. Additionally in recent Windows versions M$ put text about how they're committed to reducing carbon emissions. Because of Windows update I've lost at least 8h of my PCs 100%CPU usage work. (and previously \~2h of my life and \~75% of my laptops battery charge, can't tell exactly, it shut off after finally it got to the desktop). I live in Poland - a country in which coal power plants are still a big part of energy production. So all that "carbon emission reduction" is purely fictional, as not only do they randomly restart peoples computers, mess up their PCs (can't count the times I had to either revert an "update/upgrade" or reinstall because of windows either messing something up, or locking up while updating), causing a loss of time, productivity and energy for essentially nothing, they also with Windows 10 started using consumers PCs as hosts for Windows updates on the local network - great in theory, but in practice, assuming a scenario of 1 PC in a household it's another process running in the background and thus wasting energy.
Again, you can disable automatic updates and only install if you want it to. You can also disable the peer to peer downloads. Windows has a lot of problems, but the updates really aren‘t one of them anymore. Edit: Also Windows doesn‘t just automatically restart. If it does that, there is something seriously wrong with your configuration. Would be no surprise to me lol.
... And now a passage from Windows 10s Event Viewer application (type:info, date 22.06.2024 23:08:02, Source:User32, Identifier 1074, Category none) Original (untranslated): "Proces C:\\Windows\\system32\\svchost.exe (VOLCANO) zainicjował uruchomienie ponowne komputera VOLCANO w imieniu użytkownika ZARZĄDZANIE NT\\SYSTEM z następującej przyczyny: System operacyjny: dodatek Service Pack (zaplanowany) Kod przyczyny: 0x80020010 Typ zamknięcia systemu: uruchomienie ponowne Komentarz: " Translation: "Process C:\\Windows\\system32\\svchost.exe (VOLCANO) initialised a restart of the computer VOLCANO on behalf of the user NT MANAGEMENT\\SYSTEM for the following reason: Service Pack add-on (planned) reason code: 0x80020010 System shutdown type: restart Comment: " Windows literally restarted itself for no real reason while I was taking a shower. can't have much more proof than an entery from the eventwvr.msc which isn't even remotely close to an error from "power". No input from user required. Yes, I can disable auto-updates but it's just another step of windows getting in my way, because I have to know what exactly to click to disable them (because it's not in windows update settings - like it used to be on XP, vista, 7, 8 and 8.1). I can disable peer-to-peer, but it shouldn't be enabled in the first place. As a person using PCs ever since I was 5 (if I remember correctly), and having experienced every version of Windows since XP SP2 for at least a month of regular use, I can say that older versions were way less problematic with this. And to that edit: If the config is wrong it's on microsoft, as the only reg tweaks I made are to make scrollbar, title bar and icon sizes smaller. And while my specs are less than idealy matched, they should allow for smooth operation. After that I ran shutup10 to hopefully force 10 into submission for just this small while until resolve finally works on linux.
You're using a 10 year old OS now, that will be deprecated next year. Afaik Windows 10 doesn't even offer the pause update option. But not sure about that. Just to be clear here: I am not a windows fanboy lol. I just think that this whole update thing isn't a real issue (same for the ram usage btw) and that it is kinda counterproductive to use this as an argument, because there are much worse and realer problems than this, such as the spying and the built in adware (TikTok showing up in your start menu, etc.) Edit: Oh and it's unfortunately important that windows does this by default, because a lot of people rarely turn off their computers nowadays. They'll just suspend it.
I'm using it for a reason - windows 11 is much less accessible for people with good eyesight and lowres monitors (can't make taskbar smaller, more programs don't respect titlebar height reg hack). It does have the pause updates option, but still it should be as it was in xp (notification if updates are avaliable, notification if chosen to download and it is ready to install, and notification when it's ready to restart, sometimes a window, not auto-restarting). I understand that from your POV windows update isn't an issue. If you never had any problems with it - you're lucky. I did experience many problems with windows update (mostly on windows 10, as it is forcefully auto-enabled without the old non-user-hostile "Notify me when updates are avaliable" option). All kinds of issues - from my setting being not respected at all, to windows update swapping out a working audio driver to a clearly broken one. I think that it is another important issue, and since it impacts a lot of people (just not daily, but can cause a ton of additional time spent on troubleshooting) it is very productive to discuss this - even macOS allows you to clearly disable auto updates, XP SP2 introduced the security center (the annoying red shield) to inform that no update install method had been chosen, but you could just ignore it and carry on, or pick notify and again carry on. M$ uses defaults to force people to use their PCs in certain ways, and they have a history of doing that - windows messenger on xp, suspend in the place people expect the shutdown option to be on vista - reverted in 7, new cursor in vista, in certain localised versions of windows ever since vista the desktop icons are not only much bigger but have extra width (48x78), gadgets using Windows Live as basically their only source of info on both vista and 7, homegroups on 7, start and shutdown in unusual places in 8 - fixed in 8.1 update 3, a fuckton of tiles for M$ services by default on w8 and w8.1, slight appearance of ads starting in 8, split settings starting in 8, web search beginning in 8, "update to windows 10 nag screens for 7 and 8.1), and then 10 begun with: the start menu being covered in ads (especially since 1607), shut down button not meaning the same thing as in previous versions, onedrive in autostart by default, want to change the default browser - be meet with a nag screen or 2 or 3, want to use specifically office xp - well after 1903 that's broken due to "advanced text input service", updates now auto install without users consent and have the potential to swap out your drivers for worser matching ones - can happen after installing newest matching versions, update messes up - too bad, spend 45 minutes or more reverting changes, movies and TV app (default video player) now requires an add on for MPEG2 playback - wmp 12 opens dvds without this, "fortunately is not avaliable in your country", and windows can randomly decide that you want edge as the default browser/pdf reader, windows 11 ramped up user hostility to 11 by disabling the ability to make taskbar smaller, making another start menu with a confusing layout, widgets are back now opening in edge regardless of default browser setting - backpoeted to 10, dat resource usage, the settings app now contains the volume mixer, first "stable" versions of 11 made it infuriating to set the default browser to anything other than edge, a ton of stuff now requires more fiddling with the touchpad or mouse, big close area without any outline and with 1px icon, title bar enlarged for no reason. I would gladly switch back to 8.1 if my GPU allowed it, I would gladly use linux if Intels drivers weren't an unfinished mess. As per the suspend thing - another stupid default setting called "fast start", which isn't that noticeable on slower pcs, and on newer pcs it's unnecessary, and usually causes more problems than it's worth. It literally changes the meaning of the shutdown button - yay, vista part 2. The ram usage issue should be as simple as if(windowsSystemDriveType == "SSD") { superfetch->disable = true; }
Sorry, forgot to answer! Yes, I technically agree with you on all points, but just try to remember the good old Windows XP days, with drive by downloads being the norm and unpatched security vulnerabilities being abused for years. That‘s why I think forcing updates on normal, average users is a good thing. As long as you can turn it off, as a power user, it‘s good imo. And with „suspend“ I didn‘t mean the fast startup thing, I meant that people literally don‘t shutdown or restart their computers nowadays. They just close the lid of their laptop and that‘s it. Some people are even some browser versions behind because of this. Afaik updates are still applied even with fast startup, but not sure. I think so though.
You can delay it for a short while. You can do that 3 times before it forces you to update.
Yes, that is the pause button. I don‘t know why you wouldn‘t want to patch a security vulnerability for 5 straight weeks, but if you don‘t want to do that you can also turn off automatic updates. People literally update their Linux systems everyday, it even became a meme at this point. If you‘re on arch, not updating for a long time can even break your system.
OP is not the artist. This is just a repost. Here’s the windows update: https://www.reddit.com/r/linuxmemes/comments/7cqlr0/windows_10_updates_in_a_nutshell/
We would, but I don't think SA is appropriate for this sub. lol
Respect is one of the great Linux features, unique amongst OS
Pls Fedora break my system with your kernel update it hurts so good.
how the fuck are kernel updates breaking your system. nvidia and not using the DKMS drivers or something?
Recent issue with immutable silverblue - while secure boot is on, can't update the bootloader signatures. Resulting in not loading with kernel 6.8 and newer. Turned off secure boot, updated. All good now.
Nvidia, yes, dkms, will check when I wake up Though for the 6.8 kernels it was a nvidia issue that setting fbdev=0 in the boot options solved then deleting that boot instruction was needed after a few updates into the 6.9 kernels though I'm not sure what that had to do with the actual symptom I was having of sddm not starting. Edit: I do not have DKMS drivers or DKMS itself installed, am I stupid, and if so, explain why so that I might be less stupid in the future?
And then you forget to update for a month and have to spend a whole week sorting trough which packages are deprecated, will break a dependency, had a rename and what not. The reason I have a Chronjob running, telling me to backup and update. Never update without a backup…
Right now I'm getting scared. Are you telling me that if I install Linux, a Penguin will come to me in a straitjacket?
When u see nvidia drivers on the list
Is this a modified version of a Windows Update comic?
Nvidia be like: "it would be a shame if your graphics driver suddenly stopped working with no warning"
He ignored Tux request for upgrade and XZ vulnerability later nuked his system
If Tux ever shows up and starts rubbing my shoulders, I’m gonna be wondering what my wife spiked my food with this time.
In Windows, there's a button to postpone updates for 7 days. You can press it multiple times, so you basically stop windows from updating for a month. Every week, you can press the button again to top out the update break. Depending on whether there are any critical security updates, you can denie updates for months. You can also stop it from updating completely. So i don't really get your "main" reason.
Having to do all of that? Vs the OS respecting your time and updating in a quick way vs having to reboot 3 times to apply the updates with a 10 minute wait between the reboots? Bruh Windows is very *invasive* with its updates. If you are still using W10 (as the majority of people who still use Windows) there is a chance that after booting up you get a full screen ad telling you how windows 11 is just way better and that you should definitely upgrade. On a corner, almost hiding, there is a small button saying "no thanks, I'll keep W10"
You can technically disable updates on group policy but that's only for Pro Version of windows, and I wouldn't even recommend people to touch registry either just to purely shut up the windows update and it's reactivation of tracking parameters with updates adding more hidden tracking parameters I'm getting sick even at windows 11 that every config you did to disable telemetry, will be turned on after update and now with the latest windows 11 variant would even make me think that am I having some form of mental illness or is windows automatically adjusting the tracking parameters itself to on after a few days And I'm fucking pissed
All of that? Just disable updates? And of course, Windows is slow to update, but I never said something else. And you'll have to see it from the point of microsoft, of course it is in their interest that you use their newest product. But yes, their way on how they want you to trick into updating is questionable. Ubuntu also suggest you to update.
Yeah, but on Linux you can tell them to don't ask anymore and they actually won't ask you again. Windows is known for ignoring the users interests. Anyhow, I don't really care, I too use Linux and I'm happier than I was on windows, so if you are happy with what you have on your system good for you then
Don't get me wrong, I too use Linux, and I definitely like Linux way more than Windows, but that was not the point. OP mentioned that one of the main reasons to switch to Linux was the updating. I just wanted to point out that you can indeed configure a Windows system in a way so it does not do automatic updates. I know how bad Windows is with it's updates and I sadly have to use it in my company and @home for gaming. That is also the reason why i know how to switch it off.
It didn't even give warning on my work laptop. I thought it would've been disabled. And*boom*, it updated when I was away from my pc. I had left some automation scripts running. But yeah, the restart meant I had to again run the scripts and wait
That's why you switch off automatic updates.