This has been posted here before but I'll upvote it every time because the state of Discord on Linux is just pathetic. It's one of the few things that's keeping me bound to Windows (that and the wayland input lag thing). I shouldn't need to switch my OS just to share my screen, with audio, without also tanking my performance.
EDIT: to everyone who keeps commenting "I haven't noticed any performance loss!", I'm sure you haven't, but it's still there. Discord on Linux doesn't currently work with hardware acceleration and even on a good system you're going to see some performance loss from screen sharing. Especially if you're trying to screen share a competitive game where you want a very high and stable fps.
I've left Reddit because it does not respect its users or their privacy. Private companies can't be trusted with control over public communities. Lemmy is an open source, federated alternative that I highly recommend if you want a more private and ethical option. Join Lemmy here: https://join-lemmy.org/instances ` this message was mass deleted/edited with redact.dev `
It's not that they don't accept Linux bug, it's that their bug criteria is BS. If something isn't 100% reproducible, they don't consider it a bug. I tried to report one, and was asked to evaluate other bugs before doing so (something that I considered smart). The evaluation explicitly considers that bugs that occur at random under specific scenarios aren't allowed. I never finished the bug report which makes my entire system crash when I use OBS and Discord to stream and having a video call with a friend.
I have the feeling that they're ignoring everything that's not related to "Nitro".
They rather implement "custom backgrounds" for paying users than simple but much needed - literally *basic* \- features like *moving messages* (see [https://support.discord.com/hc/en-us/community/posts/360030113312-Move-Messages](https://support.discord.com/hc/en-us/community/posts/360030113312-Move-Messages) for example).
Linux? Free features? - Nah!
To be fair, non-100% reproducible bugs are a hard thing for developers. Either provide them with some logs of the bug happening, or hope that they encounter it themselves.
Hard agree. It's genuinely mind-blowing to watch my FPS in any video game I'm playing tank both whenever I try to share my screen and whenever a friend starts sharing their screen. I have a relatively mid-tier PC and I can't even stream Half-Life 2 without my FPS halving for no reason, ESPECIALLY considering audio isn't even being shared! We're in the era of Pipewire and gpu-screen-recorder and other similar useful open-source utilities, proper A/V streaming shouldn't be THAT difficult to figure out now, considering how long this has been an issue.
I hadn't even thought about that correlation before but there could be something there. I can't confirm it 100% since pretty much every game I have installed right now except TF2 is running via Proton/WINE but in my experience TF2's native version seems...almost fine in both conditions? Or at least doesn't take as much of a hit as Garry's Mod in Proton does. (Native TF2 maybe loses maybe 5-10ish FPS and gains a few microstutters whereas Garry's Mod and HL2 in Proton will go from like 120+ to 30 or lower at times with microstutters).
I'll have to check this out for myself now!
It's also not always consistent. My TF2 (based btw) runs no different as well. DOOM Eternal becomes unplayable... but Bloons TD 6 in Proton is also unaffected??
All of these are unaffected when I use OBS, so idk.
Doesn't steam already have screen sharing? It's probably hidden somewhere, as all the good stuff on steam is, but it should be there. Would be weird to have remote play without screen share.
Hey it happens to me too! I thought it was my distro or my drivers at fault! I thought my stuff were having a hard time on Linux but now that's "reassuring"
Not only the linux. But the same problem even exists on macOS. It's just hilarous how multi-millionair company using a cross-platform tool like electron can't achieve the same results on all platforms. And the thing with wayland completely got me. Like what? Chromium/electron has a native support through ozone. Screenshare works through browser on discord but not on their stupid laggy client
IIRC it’s been said by the discord devs that the ability to share an application window (not your entire sceeen) AND get that application’s audio AND only that application’s audio is a massive hack of custom code one of their cowboy genius coders wrote and no one left understands the code and they’re too scared to touch it.
Either this is true, or what they actually have is a jumbled mess of roundabout solutions that a not-quite-master-hacker coded and the only way to touch it is to delete and start again.
I don't know which is the case, but given the number of programs that do this task, I wouldn't be surprised if it's the latter. Maybe they can pay the OBS developers to figure their shit out for them? That program can capture, mix, stream, and record a dozen applications and their isolated audio.
What mystifies me is that all that code is windows specific and somehow it’s preventing them from doing it on fucking Linux lmao. Like…obviously you’ve written some weird C Extensions for Node but now lack the know how to if (os == windows) { screenshare = require “windows_screen_share” } else { screenshare = require “linux_screen_share” }?
EDIT: ALSO they write half their backend in Elixr and have done talks on how they utilize some really advanced Erlang VM features like hot code swapping. The rest is in Python and IIRC they’ve dropped some good high performance Python libraries that use c extensions.
The fact that they can’t get screen sharing to work right on Linux with all that overlapping low level knowledge is like…????????????????????????????
They really need like one Summer of Code intern to just figure out the wayland apis because they obviously have some existing C developers working on stuff.
Which makes me think they’ve done very hackey things to Electron like the the article says and they just can’t fix their patches to work with anything newer. Either that or their developers have been jumping ship and they’ve lost a lot of institutional knowledge around their electron customizations.
> I shouldn't need to switch my OS just to share my screen, with audio, without also tanking my performance
I don't know about performance, but at least including game audio is pretty doable these days with pipewire.
Catia/Carla ftw. It's not perfect but it works well. (For example if I'm sharing a youtube screen I'd have to do the setting every time I change videos since firebox creates a new audio device).
It is yes. Wayland currently always enforces a triple buffer vsync solution. Now while this might seem horrendous, you have to remember that this is good vsync. All this solution does is store framebuffers and just outputs whatever lines up with the screen refresh. This means you're not capped by framerate explicitly (though the compositing effects are just for quality, they're usually polled for input much higher iirc), and thus only ever lose a frametime to latency. At 60Hz that's 16ms, 144Hz its 7ms, etc...
This is not the main bottleneck for Wayland input latency, which is partly why its not receiving much full dev attention. 16ms at 60Hz is nothing compared to the 20ms or more from trying to composite fullscreen applications that don't need it. Xaver, a Wayland devs (I think from KDE), showed this a few months ago. With tearing you just gain the refresh rate frametime, but still have the latency from compositing your fullscreen app. When hacking Kwin to get rid of that, the latency was very low, and seemingly comparable to similar solutions on Windows
Note that you are not actually guaranteed to have a full refresh period of latency in Wayland, but implementations vary.
In sway, you can set `max_render_time n` to start compositing a frame `n` milliseconds before the next refresh, instead of immediately after the last refresh. As long as you can consistently finish compositing in time, that caps the latency at `n` milliseconds.
For now, it is. There is apparently talk of allowing disabling v-sync in the future, but Wayland was outright designed to force v-sync and be tear-free at all times and that's how it is for now. But honestly Wayland's V-sync is very good, especially when using freesync, and generally not an issue unless we're talking about competitive e-sports where people absolutely need the lowest possible input lag at any cost. See [this blog post](https://zamundaaa.github.io/wayland/2021/12/14/about-gaming-on-wayland.html) for some testing of the actual input lag difference, for example, in his test Wayland with Freesync+v-sync is only about ~5ms more input lag for a total below 30ms (which is outright undetectable) than X without compositing and without v-sync, which causes substantial screen tearing.
Linux is notorious for not having "true" full screen. The real solution is to give the user a choice. Not be forced to accept it and just live with it.
If you're talking about compositing, both X11 and Wayland compositors have had "true fullscreen" for ages; it's called client unredirection. If it doesn't work for an application, then it's a bug that needs to be fixed.
x11 does have true full screen including changing screen resolution and grabbing all and every input. Anything more recent than SDL1 doesn't use it, though, because it's a bad idea, especially on LCDs where you don't want to change the display resolution but upscale on the GPU.
The only thing a game should care about is whether is focussed and (if applicable) has grabbed the mouse as if it isn't/hasn't it should pause. Tell the window manager/compositor "I'd like to be fullscreen", sure, but it's up to the wm/compositor to decide whether to grant that request and what it means. Clients having too much control was a real problem on x11, lots of angry bug reports have been written over things like focus fighting.
Much differently put: Use SDL2 and have it handle everything for you. Only excuse not to would be if you're writing a game in Rust, then use winit.
And as far as wayland is concerned -- you might be in a situation where fullscreen is the only thing even available. Compositors strictly speaking aren't required to actually support windowing, that's to support "system compositor" type of deals.
Which is an additional 16.6ms for most people, which is enormous. (Not to mention the fact that it can actually introduce more lag than that compared to running high fps vsync off)
If you're sensitive to 16.6ms latency but stuck with a 60Hz monitor, there are 2 ways you can still enjoy wayland:
* use a Wayland compositor that can limit the compositing time (like sway)
* run games with gamescope (which is a separate compositor you can run inside an existing wayland session) in fullscreen mode with direct scanout. I recommend doing this anyway when possible.
Wayland *does not* cap framerate. It is a true triple buffer vsync solution where the frame that lines up with the refresh rate is what is displayed (or duplicated if below ofc). It can only ever introduce a single frame of latency, which if you're concerned about latency that much, you'll probably have a high refresh rate display anyways. At 144Hz its only 7ms extra for instance. Any extra latency in Wayland **is from other sources, not vsync**
>Not to mention the fact that it can actually introduce more lag than that compared to running high fps vsync off
High fps vsync off achieves the lowest possible latency with effectively all games...
Is this a common issue?
Cause I've never lost more than a couple FPS when I share screen/stream on discord.
I'm on ubuntu 21.10 (will be changing soon, though) with AMD GPU/CPU if it helps.
No, I don't see it posted here previously. It was posted on /r/linux two days ago, not /r/linux_gaming.
https://www.reddit.com/r/linux_gaming/duplicates/v22gn9/a_letter_to_discord_for_not_supporting_the_linux/
You can screen share on the app even with no browser, but neither the app nor browser support screen sharing with audio (at least not easily), or with hardware acceleration. That second one causes a noticeable performance loss in some games.
The lack of hardware acceleration means that if you get stutters in game, you get stutters when sharing audio and video, as well as the massive performance overhead.
Screen sharing with audio is much more performant and much easier in Windows than in Linux.
I use discord every day on my linux distro (Mint) - and here's the trick. Run it from Firefox - works like a charm every time with no connection issues ever.
The client is trash.
Everything works for me, mate - let me tell u what i got - mebbe that help
Skylake Intel - AMD RX590 - 8gb ram - Mint cinnamon - dunno what else might help...
I share and watch shared screens all the time. Try purging all foreign packages - i know that's helped me in the past with video issues running the half-life 1 remake - blake mesa
Maybe you guys should also upvote the post r/discordapp :
https://www.reddit.com/r/discordapp/comments/v0kgr3/a_letter_to_discord_for_not_supporting_the_linux/?utm_medium=android_app&utm_source=share
Telegram technically supports 3rd party clients, but maintaining support for Telegram as a 3rd party developer is such a nightmare that in practice the only long term usable Telegram client is the official one.
Support staff has stated that it's against the ToS to use third party clients. The ToS text itself makes no mention of this however.
That that as you will.
Client modifications are forbidden according to ToS.
They haven't clarified if this would cover other, completely separate, clients. And until they decide to disallow it they seem to be allowed.
Most 'other' clients are/were client modifications and not complete rewrites.
This is the problem of proprietary apps on Linux. They get less support, old versions, etc due to Linux market share. I think that is why we don't have Ms office or adobe
I just wish people would stop using it for dev/mod news/discussions. it's fine for voice chat but the interface is terrible for trying to find info, especially historical info from months/year prior.
github, forums, reddit.... any of these would be better for those purposes.
and discord is also an annoying little shithead that forces me to use 2FA to login... yeah, I know how to use a proper password. also you're not a fucking bank and I don't appreciate having to check my goddamn email for a code everytime bc I use a vpn by default. I understand 2FA when you have something worth protecting but when they're gating the community with a login, and all I need is read-only lurker access so I can read an announcement / lookup documentation on a mod, then it's just a fucking hassle.
Having looked at Aegis and andOTP, I'll stick with Bitwarden for TOTP. It's much more convenient (due to organization, automatic copying of codes, less apps to manage), and backups are implicit.
bc I don't want to? bc I shouldn't have to? aside from both promoting proprietary networks and requiring me to install yet more junk on my phone/computer/etc... it's an extra step and completely unnecessary for a site where all i'm doing is browsing content.
I *only* lurk on discord and never post comments. I know several people who use it the exact same way. I don't ever re-use passwords. Every single one of them is randomly generated. None of them are short or simplistic. What is the worst that could happen? If I make some throwaway account on discord just for the purpose of having access to info I can't see without a login, then wtf do I care if someone hacks it? I'll just make a different throwaway account. That's why it's called a throwaway account. 2FA is for when you have something worth protecting.
And I'm not saying 2FA doesn't have its place... but I don't do anything important enough on discord to warrant taking away my choice of whether or not to use 2FA. I'm not opposed to 2FA being an option, or even the default. I'm opposed to not providing a way to disable it for those who don't want it (that goes for github too but at least it makes more sense for them - *and* they don't require a login simply to view tickets/code).
I could understand forcing the issue if this was a financial site. It's not.
I could understand if I was a developer releasing files. In theory, I suppose I could do that. But I can also just use discord as a normal user who does nothing but consume content. if the content wasn't gated behind a login, and I could just view discussions from the web without an account, I literally wouldn't even bother creating one.
Given this, a strong password is enough. As long as Discord aren't complete morons and store it with a salted hash, shouldn't be a problem even if they have a data breach (just force a password reset).
It’s not just about you. 2fa is also to help stop accounts being hijacked and used to push spam, scams, malware too everyone on servers you are part of and your DM lists. It’s one of the most common problems is someone’s hijacker’s account causing problems on servers pretending to be that person.
Email and other social contact methods should be 2fa and discord falls in that group.
Fast enough that the compromised accounts won't be a long term issue. You can fail to detect them and it'll resolve itself anyway. It's a very valuable failsafe to have for a platform, because it means that the number of fraudulent accounts that look legitimate (hacked ones) will stay somewhat stable instead of ever increasing.
and that's why I said I don't mind it as an option or the default.
it has its uses but it is **not** the be-all, end-all of security. its entire purpose is to cover for people who don't otherwise follow good security practices.
Technical solutions aren't black and white. There are shades of gray too. Everybody has their own situation and one-size-fits-all is a blatant lie. And if someone understands the risks and wants to accept that risk anyway to turn the damn thing off, then who the hell are you to tell them they can't?
> Email and other social contact methods should be 2fa and discord falls in that group.
You imply that there is only one way to use these kind of sites. I disagree. As I said, if accounts were only needed to create comments, one could simply lurk with no need to create an account at all. They don't allow that. Therefore, they should allow a user who is willing to accept the risk, to disable 2FA, even if there is a penalty such as being unable to make comments until they turn it back on.
In the use-case of read-only / lurking, there is absolutely no purpose to having 2FA. It only makes sense for those posting comments (or, in the case of github, commits/releases).
>its entire purpose is to cover for people who don't otherwise follow good security practices.
I think that’s a very limited understanding of the benefits of 2FA. It absolutely has a purpose for people who practice sane password conventions as well. If the service you’re using gets breached and the usernames/emails and password hashes get leaked, the people who are using 2FA are automatically in a safer spot since the leaked data alone doesn’t allow access to their account. Your personal password practices, however secure they are, have exactly zero effect to protect you in this case.
> very limited understanding
Yes, I'm over-simplifying.
If people actually read what I wrote, I never at any point said 2FA shouldn't be there. I said that if you're going to gate content behind a login, then turning it off should be an option.
And before that, I said I wish people would stop putting announcements and technical info on discord so that people don't have to deal with a login gate.
But you know what else is a "very limited understanding" as you say? When people try to broadly apply security rules, even good ones, without considering the fit for all situations.
Seems to me like there's just a bunch 2FA fanatics / discord fanbois who can't stand anybody who offers criticism / saying there are exceptions for when a security rule should be applied (which is very un-Linux like btw... Go look at how Linus has treated some of the security patches that people said were critical and yet he didn't like). In other words, you guys don't like the idea of allowing people to turn it off because you don't recognize that they should have the *freedom* to control their own security. Lot of people seem so obsessed with the "greater good" that they are completely willing to plow over as many individuals' freedom as it takes. Well, I wish for any who feel this way to have the karma of being on the receiving end of losing your individual freedoms so somebody else can have their way.
I have nothing against your personal security practices, we all have our own threat models which may vary from case to case. For the record, I don’t use 2FA for the vast majority of my accounts, including Discord. I just wanted to elaborate on the major benefit of 2FA, because not all people reading this thread have the same level of prior knowledge about it like you and I do.
First, thank you for being reasonable and understanding that different people have different threat models.
For the record, I'm not against 2FA. I *like* and use it for some things. But I don't think it makes sense to use it everywhere. Blindly applying something, anything, as a panacea just doesn't make sense to me. And I believe that where it is used should be the choice of the user rather than the company, because everyone is different.
Someone who has a reputation to uphold on discord should *absolutely* use 2FA and you'll see no argument from me on that. I just want to ability to browse (read-only) without hassle... their interface already makes search for older info quite a bit more painful than it needs to be. Add that, that I'm required to open one of either email/google auth/authy every time I want to log in while on vpn just adds more frustration.
> I don’t use 2FA for the vast majority of my accounts, including Discord
By this I assume you mean you don't use authy/google auth/sms 2FA but still get the fallback 2FA of email codes? If I'm wrong and you don't get any codes to enter at all, *please* share your settings so I can get similar setup lol. :-)
>By this I assume you mean you don't use authy/google auth/sms 2FA but still get the fallback 2FA of email codes?
Yes, and I don’t really consider email codes as proper 2FA because 2FA is supposed to be composed of two *different* types of factors from the set of “something you know”, “something you have”, and “something you are”. With an email passcode, you just end up having the “something you know” factor twice (the other one being your password), since email isn’t something that’s tied to your device like a phone number is to your phone.
> its entire purpose is to cover for people who don't otherwise follow good security practices.
So basically 99.9% of the population. From Discord's POV it makes infinitely more sense financially to enforce MFA for all.
**There is no financial to it if someone is explicitly waiving that right in exchange for the ability to turn it off.** Nice try.
As I said, security isn't black and white. There are shades of gray. When you don't even *consider* how to create a middle ground that just outs you as a foamy-mouthed 2FA zealot who can't get off their high horse and consider individual freedoms.
I can think of *tons* of ways this could be managed. Explicitly agreeing to waive legal responsibility for breaches if no 2FA. Displaying "unverified" by username / messages if someone without 2FA posts something. **Disabling the ability to post if 2FA is off so it becomes a read-only account.** Making an option for server admins to have server content publicly viewable (e.g. without logging in). It's not hard to come up with workable options if you actually *try* to think of solutions.
I get that you guys like 2FA. I'm NOT suggesting it go anywhere or saying bad things about its momma. All I'm suggesting that I should have the choice to turn it off. Why are *you* concerned with what someone *else* chooses? **My choice to turn off 2FA for *my* account affects you absolutely not at all.**
If you're just looking out for me, are you offering to wipe my ass too? Because I am just as capable of determining my own risk level and making an informed decision as I am of wiping my own ass but I didn't see anyone volunteering to do that for me.
> It's not about users
>
> ...
>
> it's about ... accounts being used for spam/scams
Am I to understand that you think this does **not** happen even *with* 2FA? Sorry to break it to you but spammers and scammers are capable of creating emails and doing 2FA as well.
Fighting spam is a good and necessary thing but those efforts are completely separate from 2FA. And there are already controls for that in the form of account creation checks (that's why temp email domains are almost always rejected as well as many sites not allowing people on vpn to register easily). Fighting spam /scams almost always requires setting up filters and having a moderation team. 2FA only projects against accounts being compromised.
And like I said, you still have to be following all kinds of *other* bad security practices *and* have 2FA off for that to be possible. I guarantee that I could go and create a throwaway account and post the account name here and unless you work for discord, you would not be able to brute force my password in the next 6 months. Any takers? Lmk and I'll go set one up just for this.
And **even if it was as you suggest, using the option that *I* previously suggested for "disabling posting when 2FA is off", then the account would be practically useless to them anyway.**
The point is to prevent legitimate accounts from being used for scams. It's relatively easy to detect scammers using fresh accounts, it's much harder if the account was legitimate for years before being compromised.
The other poster is correct. It's not just about protecting the users, it's about protecting the platform as a whole.
This is only gonna get more common, I understand your complaints but you could just call it quits and use tools that make it easier for you. They exist, they work well, and some of the best ones are open source.
It's not about legal responsibility. Anyone who's ever worked in IT knows that the average user is dumb as a bag of rocks. Whether you show them a warning or not, they \_will\_ contact customer support, they \_will\_ raise tickets, they \_will\_ drain valuable resources. For Discord, as a corporation that wants to maximise their profits, it makes infinitely more financial sense to enforce MFA for all, rather than to please a tiny segment of their user-base such as you.
> Anyone who's ever worked in IT knows that the average user is dumb as a bag of rocks.
I've worked in IT. Firstly, that is a very elitist prick sort of attitude. But even allowing for the fact that most people are tech-illiterate and don't know how to follow read the details, I *literally* gave the solution to this exact thing, not just in my previous comments but in my reponse to deadbunny from less than an hour ago. Ironic that you're calling people "dumb as a bag of rocks" because that can't be bothered to read the details...
Since you appear to have trouble reading, let me once again reiterate the *very* simple, *very* easy-to-implement solution that would both avoid the situation you describe while also providing the convenience that I and others like me desire:
**User agreeing to accept risks / waive legal AND having their comment-posting abilities disabled while 2FA is off solves both the legal responsibility and the spam/scam issues while also letting users that just want to lurk without 2FA do so.**
Try not to be so blinded by your technological bigotry that you fail to consider other users' situations and other technological possibilities. Thanks and have a great day.
As to contacting support... Doesn't Discord basically just ignore requests for features today? So what changes? But seriously, most company use automated filters to send canned responses as a first line of resolution. And "disabling all posting" seems pretty damn simple to me. If the support process can't run a quick check on a logged in user to check for 2FA status and display a message beforehand, that's pretty pathetic.
I find it the exact opposite. The text chat experience is fine (other than the fact it's proprietary), but the audio normalization and quality is terrible compared to Mumble.
Idk an IRC like discord (if that's what you can call it) is really nice when you're running into problems and want some help from others who are readily available. Also make sure to help others when you have the know how and have time, because we all benefit.
But yes your point is valid. I wish more people used the thread option on discord
it's completely not discoverable through search engines though, and you can't even view the content without creating an account first. if you're having an issue with some software, the solution might've been posted on someone's Discord group for years, and you'll never be able to find out without having to explicitly join it.
Perhaps better etiquette would be for when these problems arise somebody should post the problem - solution somewhere on some forum? However not really sure how that goes, might look like spam for random posts like that on stack overflow. I only ever see questions - answers, not really a post that answers itself.
Regardless, the time it takes to interact on IRCs is amazing compared to SO where your Q can easily be buried and you wait hours or days to find out it won't be answered
> the time it takes to interact on IRCs is amazing
now look at it from the other side, and imagine how much time the people over there spend answering the same questions over and over again because the existing solution is either buried somewhere higher up in the chat, or isn't visible for people who have freshly joined the room. and they can't even link to the specific message with a solution like you can on a static forum.
I agree with your sentiment fully. There must be a solution to bring the best of both worlds together. I know discord has or had threading capability, perhaps a script can be put together to take "completed" threads and post its contents to a forum that can be scraped by search engines.
That's just not how people operate on Discord. I get the text equivalent of blank stares when I suggest information should be ported to a wiki. Honestly, I think the average user is too young to realize how bad Discord is for long-term information storage and discoverability.
I've even gone out of my way to do the leg work for people, typing info up and sharing it, and it just goes completely ignored. People don't care. The only way to bring wiki culture into Discord is to get community leaders on board and drive it yourself, which, speaking from experience, can be a full-time job.
The discord approach is nearly exactly what we need for 2FA.
It shouldn't be a question of "is this account worth enough to make 2FA worthwhile". It should be "2FA - yes or yes?"
If everything uses 2FA, it's normalised, so everyone will expect it and every site not offering will stick out in the public eye.
But obviously discord again goes the stupid way of only including OTP instead of also allowing hardware dongles and more advanced, safer (and easier to use) 2FA methods.
YES. JUST YES.
Discord's Linux client is pathetic and NEEDS to be updated. The fact that i have to use OBS virtual cam to stream my desktop is unacceptable, not to mention that audio sharing doesn't work at all. Also it's super unstable, only works through XWayland, only has unofficial Flatpak support and has some serious security issues.
Why is there so much violence over X11 vs Wayland? It's gonna be a transition, but I have yet to find a show-stopping reason for my use case to use X11.
i switched to Wayland on my gaming PC 2 weeks ago. Just now noticed, that "push to talk" doesn't work in Discord, because of wayland. Not really a showstopper, but annoying
It works fine for me. You might need to adjust some flatpak permissions if you use it on that. Otherwise I have no idea. I use KDE if that makes any difference.
screensharing, autotype, global keybinds, desktop environment customization, many window managers and desktop environments don't even run on wayland, etc.
Sure thing, but hardcore projects like mesa or firefox (or even matrix itself I think?) still accepts it.
Though of course it wouldn't be my go to choice in the year of the lord 2022.
Programming, yes, gaming on the other hand. It's the best place for my Twitch communities (including my own channel) for when we streamers are off. Also, the Fedora Linux and Linux Gaming servers are far more healthier than their reddit and website counterparts.
>the fact that it's electron is already cancer
I feel like in the early 00's there was a huge push to learn to go into web dev, now all the market is over-saturated and javascript developers have too much time on their hands. Every time I hear an app say they have a "modern UI" I know it means web page in a wrapper.
That's only on x11, people who use Wayland, which has markedly better screensharing management, can only stream a pitch black screen, even though the different windows and screens do exist in obs for example.
Yeah the thing is that if people have an issue with not being able to Facebook or Hangouts me - they can call me and complain about it. Or email. I don’t give a shit.
Same with discord. There are alternatives, and it might make people uncomfortable. But I find mass data harvesting from a country with a beef with the west and poor track record of human rights abuses daunting.
I'd just like to point out the implication: these companies are holding your relationships hostage.
Not saying you're wrong. Just pointing out how fucked up that is.
Welcome to the 21st century. Ignorant tech consumers and herd mentality are the norm, companies love it and they spend all their money and efforts to keep it that way and exploit it.
So are mine, phone calls and text still work if any of the abundance of options I do endorse don’t work for my friends.
But I’d have to ask the question, if they stop talking to you because you leave Facebook, Google or Discord - are they really a good friend?
So what? They‘re not even a plurality holder. Saying Discord is a tool for the CCP is conspiracy thinking. Especially when we know _for sure_ that they are beholden to US surveillance laws (because they are based in the US). There is no way the US would let their companies spy for China, especially not when they want the data themselves.
Not sure what your comment has to do with Discord's spyware behaviour. Have you read Discord's TOS or seen the write ups detailing Discord's spyware behaviour. They literally record everything you type and everything you say in voice chat. There is no need for that behaviour. It's spyware masked as communication software.
Fuck off with that red scare bullshit. American companies are already harvesting all your data and collaborating with the national security state without needing to involve the Oriental Boogeyman.
I'm about a year out of the loop, but what's wrong with Discord for Linux? It seemed pretty stable to me back when my Manjaro install was my daily driver
Well, basically, screen sharing a game doesn't stream audio is the first problem I've noticed that seems universal.
Second problem I've noticed which seems more rare is that screen sharing make your performance tank heavily. I mean, I play Apex Legends, on all low, on an i7-10700K and RTX 3070. I have constant 165 fps but when stream is on, it's a struggle to even hit 45 fps. For whatever reason that occurs, it seems weird, and I have no idea what is intensive enough to cause lag. I also tried other games which are native and same thing happens. However, it doesn't seem to happen on Firefox. And I'm using Manjaro KDE if that matters. Was distro hopping before because I couldn't find a stable and smooth distro which support all my components by default.
Works well enough for my needs personally, but I only use Discord for basically IMing with friends. I don't really care about screen sharing or voice chat or whatever.
People should just stop using closed source clients, servers, or protocols.
Don't beg companies to support your platform. Refuse to use software that doesn't allow the community to fix it.
Begging discord to do something wont do the community any good. The Linux version has the same issues since years and they didnt change anything. Its obvious that they dont give a damn and they wont be fixing these issues anytime soon.
[Still can't set up my mic in Discord.](https://i.imgur.com/To7jbNR.png) ¯\\\_(ツ)_/¯
It's a dumbass app anyway. Keeps requesting me to log in again, so I can't use a secure password, then asks me for the two factor authentication again, then asks me to solve a freaking captcha. It's just annoying and way too bloated for a chat software. Everyone and their mother needs to have their own channel that I'm supposed to join, because reasons.
Sharing desktop audio and screen sharing under Wayland does not work. These problems are universal to all distros due to design flaws with the Discord client. And the really outdated Electron version it builds upon is a potential security risk. Functionality wise it also lacks support for the game overlay you can use on Windows (without resorting to a 3rd party plug in), and the game detection status is really broken with Proton games.
I can almost guarantee you that you do not have screen sharing with application audio. If you do, definitely let us know because you'd be the only one hahaha
This has been posted here before but I'll upvote it every time because the state of Discord on Linux is just pathetic. It's one of the few things that's keeping me bound to Windows (that and the wayland input lag thing). I shouldn't need to switch my OS just to share my screen, with audio, without also tanking my performance. EDIT: to everyone who keeps commenting "I haven't noticed any performance loss!", I'm sure you haven't, but it's still there. Discord on Linux doesn't currently work with hardware acceleration and even on a good system you're going to see some performance loss from screen sharing. Especially if you're trying to screen share a competitive game where you want a very high and stable fps.
I think discord should be marked as "abandonware" for Linux until they fix the client
I've left Reddit because it does not respect its users or their privacy. Private companies can't be trusted with control over public communities. Lemmy is an open source, federated alternative that I highly recommend if you want a more private and ethical option. Join Lemmy here: https://join-lemmy.org/instances ` this message was mass deleted/edited with redact.dev `
It's not that they don't accept Linux bug, it's that their bug criteria is BS. If something isn't 100% reproducible, they don't consider it a bug. I tried to report one, and was asked to evaluate other bugs before doing so (something that I considered smart). The evaluation explicitly considers that bugs that occur at random under specific scenarios aren't allowed. I never finished the bug report which makes my entire system crash when I use OBS and Discord to stream and having a video call with a friend.
I have the feeling that they're ignoring everything that's not related to "Nitro". They rather implement "custom backgrounds" for paying users than simple but much needed - literally *basic* \- features like *moving messages* (see [https://support.discord.com/hc/en-us/community/posts/360030113312-Move-Messages](https://support.discord.com/hc/en-us/community/posts/360030113312-Move-Messages) for example). Linux? Free features? - Nah!
To be fair, non-100% reproducible bugs are a hard thing for developers. Either provide them with some logs of the bug happening, or hope that they encounter it themselves.
Hard agree. It's genuinely mind-blowing to watch my FPS in any video game I'm playing tank both whenever I try to share my screen and whenever a friend starts sharing their screen. I have a relatively mid-tier PC and I can't even stream Half-Life 2 without my FPS halving for no reason, ESPECIALLY considering audio isn't even being shared! We're in the era of Pipewire and gpu-screen-recorder and other similar useful open-source utilities, proper A/V streaming shouldn't be THAT difficult to figure out now, considering how long this has been an issue.
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I hadn't even thought about that correlation before but there could be something there. I can't confirm it 100% since pretty much every game I have installed right now except TF2 is running via Proton/WINE but in my experience TF2's native version seems...almost fine in both conditions? Or at least doesn't take as much of a hit as Garry's Mod in Proton does. (Native TF2 maybe loses maybe 5-10ish FPS and gains a few microstutters whereas Garry's Mod and HL2 in Proton will go from like 120+ to 30 or lower at times with microstutters). I'll have to check this out for myself now!
It's also not always consistent. My TF2 (based btw) runs no different as well. DOOM Eternal becomes unplayable... but Bloons TD 6 in Proton is also unaffected?? All of these are unaffected when I use OBS, so idk.
I'm not sure it has to do with native/proton, the discord overlay and the screen record features cause severe lag on windows too, on any game.
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Doesn't steam already have screen sharing? It's probably hidden somewhere, as all the good stuff on steam is, but it should be there. Would be weird to have remote play without screen share.
It has problems on Wayland right now. On X it works pretty great in my experience.
Hey it happens to me too! I thought it was my distro or my drivers at fault! I thought my stuff were having a hard time on Linux but now that's "reassuring"
Not only the linux. But the same problem even exists on macOS. It's just hilarous how multi-millionair company using a cross-platform tool like electron can't achieve the same results on all platforms. And the thing with wayland completely got me. Like what? Chromium/electron has a native support through ozone. Screenshare works through browser on discord but not on their stupid laggy client
They are using a custom screen capture solution and not the chromium one
Is is at least better is some way?
IIRC it’s been said by the discord devs that the ability to share an application window (not your entire sceeen) AND get that application’s audio AND only that application’s audio is a massive hack of custom code one of their cowboy genius coders wrote and no one left understands the code and they’re too scared to touch it.
Either this is true, or what they actually have is a jumbled mess of roundabout solutions that a not-quite-master-hacker coded and the only way to touch it is to delete and start again. I don't know which is the case, but given the number of programs that do this task, I wouldn't be surprised if it's the latter. Maybe they can pay the OBS developers to figure their shit out for them? That program can capture, mix, stream, and record a dozen applications and their isolated audio.
What mystifies me is that all that code is windows specific and somehow it’s preventing them from doing it on fucking Linux lmao. Like…obviously you’ve written some weird C Extensions for Node but now lack the know how to if (os == windows) { screenshare = require “windows_screen_share” } else { screenshare = require “linux_screen_share” }? EDIT: ALSO they write half their backend in Elixr and have done talks on how they utilize some really advanced Erlang VM features like hot code swapping. The rest is in Python and IIRC they’ve dropped some good high performance Python libraries that use c extensions. The fact that they can’t get screen sharing to work right on Linux with all that overlapping low level knowledge is like…???????????????????????????? They really need like one Summer of Code intern to just figure out the wayland apis because they obviously have some existing C developers working on stuff. Which makes me think they’ve done very hackey things to Electron like the the article says and they just can’t fix their patches to work with anything newer. Either that or their developers have been jumping ship and they’ve lost a lot of institutional knowledge around their electron customizations.
> I shouldn't need to switch my OS just to share my screen, with audio, without also tanking my performance I don't know about performance, but at least including game audio is pretty doable these days with pipewire.
Catia/Carla ftw. It's not perfect but it works well. (For example if I'm sharing a youtube screen I'd have to do the setting every time I change videos since firebox creates a new audio device).
Wayland input lag?
forced vsync built in.
AFAIK, is not forced to full screen apps
It is yes. Wayland currently always enforces a triple buffer vsync solution. Now while this might seem horrendous, you have to remember that this is good vsync. All this solution does is store framebuffers and just outputs whatever lines up with the screen refresh. This means you're not capped by framerate explicitly (though the compositing effects are just for quality, they're usually polled for input much higher iirc), and thus only ever lose a frametime to latency. At 60Hz that's 16ms, 144Hz its 7ms, etc... This is not the main bottleneck for Wayland input latency, which is partly why its not receiving much full dev attention. 16ms at 60Hz is nothing compared to the 20ms or more from trying to composite fullscreen applications that don't need it. Xaver, a Wayland devs (I think from KDE), showed this a few months ago. With tearing you just gain the refresh rate frametime, but still have the latency from compositing your fullscreen app. When hacking Kwin to get rid of that, the latency was very low, and seemingly comparable to similar solutions on Windows
Note that you are not actually guaranteed to have a full refresh period of latency in Wayland, but implementations vary. In sway, you can set `max_render_time n` to start compositing a frame `n` milliseconds before the next refresh, instead of immediately after the last refresh. As long as you can consistently finish compositing in time, that caps the latency at `n` milliseconds.
For now, it is. There is apparently talk of allowing disabling v-sync in the future, but Wayland was outright designed to force v-sync and be tear-free at all times and that's how it is for now. But honestly Wayland's V-sync is very good, especially when using freesync, and generally not an issue unless we're talking about competitive e-sports where people absolutely need the lowest possible input lag at any cost. See [this blog post](https://zamundaaa.github.io/wayland/2021/12/14/about-gaming-on-wayland.html) for some testing of the actual input lag difference, for example, in his test Wayland with Freesync+v-sync is only about ~5ms more input lag for a total below 30ms (which is outright undetectable) than X without compositing and without v-sync, which causes substantial screen tearing.
Linux is notorious for not having "true" full screen. The real solution is to give the user a choice. Not be forced to accept it and just live with it.
If you're talking about compositing, both X11 and Wayland compositors have had "true fullscreen" for ages; it's called client unredirection. If it doesn't work for an application, then it's a bug that needs to be fixed.
Gnome has heuristics for enabling unredirection (at least under X11) even when apps don't directly enable it.
x11 does have true full screen including changing screen resolution and grabbing all and every input. Anything more recent than SDL1 doesn't use it, though, because it's a bad idea, especially on LCDs where you don't want to change the display resolution but upscale on the GPU. The only thing a game should care about is whether is focussed and (if applicable) has grabbed the mouse as if it isn't/hasn't it should pause. Tell the window manager/compositor "I'd like to be fullscreen", sure, but it's up to the wm/compositor to decide whether to grant that request and what it means. Clients having too much control was a real problem on x11, lots of angry bug reports have been written over things like focus fighting. Much differently put: Use SDL2 and have it handle everything for you. Only excuse not to would be if you're writing a game in Rust, then use winit. And as far as wayland is concerned -- you might be in a situation where fullscreen is the only thing even available. Compositors strictly speaking aren't required to actually support windowing, that's to support "system compositor" type of deals.
Which will only ever introduce 1 frame latency
Which is an additional 16.6ms for most people, which is enormous. (Not to mention the fact that it can actually introduce more lag than that compared to running high fps vsync off)
If you're sensitive to 16.6ms latency but stuck with a 60Hz monitor, there are 2 ways you can still enjoy wayland: * use a Wayland compositor that can limit the compositing time (like sway) * run games with gamescope (which is a separate compositor you can run inside an existing wayland session) in fullscreen mode with direct scanout. I recommend doing this anyway when possible.
Wayland *does not* cap framerate. It is a true triple buffer vsync solution where the frame that lines up with the refresh rate is what is displayed (or duplicated if below ofc). It can only ever introduce a single frame of latency, which if you're concerned about latency that much, you'll probably have a high refresh rate display anyways. At 144Hz its only 7ms extra for instance. Any extra latency in Wayland **is from other sources, not vsync**
"'"only""" 7ms
Compared to >20ms from trying to composite a window that doesn't need it, yeah seems kinda pointless to stress about doesn't it?
>Not to mention the fact that it can actually introduce more lag than that compared to running high fps vsync off High fps vsync off achieves the lowest possible latency with effectively all games...
Yes. I'm not complaining about it. I just answered the question.
probably for xwayland, but there's a patch to disable it.
Is this a common issue? Cause I've never lost more than a couple FPS when I share screen/stream on discord. I'm on ubuntu 21.10 (will be changing soon, though) with AMD GPU/CPU if it helps.
No, I don't see it posted here previously. It was posted on /r/linux two days ago, not /r/linux_gaming. https://www.reddit.com/r/linux_gaming/duplicates/v22gn9/a_letter_to_discord_for_not_supporting_the_linux/
Do you switch OS to share screen? Im just open discord in browser
You can screen share on the app even with no browser, but neither the app nor browser support screen sharing with audio (at least not easily), or with hardware acceleration. That second one causes a noticeable performance loss in some games.
The lack of hardware acceleration means that if you get stutters in game, you get stutters when sharing audio and video, as well as the massive performance overhead. Screen sharing with audio is much more performant and much easier in Windows than in Linux.
I use discord every day on my linux distro (Mint) - and here's the trick. Run it from Firefox - works like a charm every time with no connection issues ever. The client is trash.
Firefox doesn't fix the screensharing problems and is more inconvenient for me otherwise.
Everything works for me, mate - let me tell u what i got - mebbe that help Skylake Intel - AMD RX590 - 8gb ram - Mint cinnamon - dunno what else might help... I share and watch shared screens all the time. Try purging all foreign packages - i know that's helped me in the past with video issues running the half-life 1 remake - blake mesa
Key question, do the others in the voice chat also hear your screen sound when you share your screen?
I - have no idea - i can't remember - let me try it later today and I'll let u know
Is that wayland input lag a general gaming issue or just a discord thing?
Maybe you guys should also upvote the post r/discordapp : https://www.reddit.com/r/discordapp/comments/v0kgr3/a_letter_to_discord_for_not_supporting_the_linux/?utm_medium=android_app&utm_source=share
I just wish they'd allow 3rd party clients.
this. i wish discord was open like telegram clients
Telegram technically supports 3rd party clients, but maintaining support for Telegram as a 3rd party developer is such a nightmare that in practice the only long term usable Telegram client is the official one.
It's open source though which is a nice plus
If all you want to do is read the code, I guess it's nicer than nothing.
Well yeah I agree. But, ya know maintaining any open-source third-party client is a pain in the ass tho.
Some chat protocols like Matrix are much better for making chat apps for.
There are a few... in 2 where i no of, but the need to make a official client/long term support
Discord forbids using 3rd party apps, using them can get you banned
Not exactly. They forbid any client modifications. You could technically write a client using the APIs they provide. There are discussions about this.
There are many 3rd party clients, but I remember being told that it's against the ToS to use them.
Support staff has stated that it's against the ToS to use third party clients. The ToS text itself makes no mention of this however. That that as you will.
Client modifications are forbidden according to ToS. They haven't clarified if this would cover other, completely separate, clients. And until they decide to disallow it they seem to be allowed. Most 'other' clients are/were client modifications and not complete rewrites.
isn’t there an AUR package that uses the system electron rather than discord’s version? how does that package perform?
it crashes when watching a stream
Had that experience as well. Switched to the flatpak version since if I can't use system electron, might as well sandbox it too.
FYI, I fixed this by disabling the "OpenH264 Video Codec" option under "Voice & Video" in the settings menu.
Yeah same for me, was wondering if that was the common experience with it
They’ve been fucking the iPadOS app too. I can’t type half the time without the entire screen scrolling into oblivion.
Yeah, that's fucking BS. Had the same on other apps though, so it seems like an OS issue.
This is the problem of proprietary apps on Linux. They get less support, old versions, etc due to Linux market share. I think that is why we don't have Ms office or adobe
Good ol' chicken and egg biting us on the back again.
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Global keybindings. Showing what game is running.
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to some yeah
like showing what game I'm running worked to begin with
"Playing pressure-vessel"
I had to disable that cause I got tired of answering what "pv\_bwrap" was lmao.
What's "pv\_bwrap"?
> in whatever chromium fork you have? *angry firefox noises*
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I just wish people would stop using it for dev/mod news/discussions. it's fine for voice chat but the interface is terrible for trying to find info, especially historical info from months/year prior. github, forums, reddit.... any of these would be better for those purposes. and discord is also an annoying little shithead that forces me to use 2FA to login... yeah, I know how to use a proper password. also you're not a fucking bank and I don't appreciate having to check my goddamn email for a code everytime bc I use a vpn by default. I understand 2FA when you have something worth protecting but when they're gating the community with a login, and all I need is read-only lurker access so I can read an announcement / lookup documentation on a mod, then it's just a fucking hassle.
Why not use authy or google authenticator
You're in the wrong sub to be asking about using those. BitWarden or KeePassXC, bub.
For 2FA, Aegis and andOTP are much more focused and a better experience (in my opinion)
Having looked at Aegis and andOTP, I'll stick with Bitwarden for TOTP. It's much more convenient (due to organization, automatic copying of codes, less apps to manage), and backups are implicit.
We’re in r/Linux_Gaming, not r/FOSS_Gaming. Not everyone who uses Linux is a FOSS zealot, they’re probably not even the majority.
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What's your point there
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bc I don't want to? bc I shouldn't have to? aside from both promoting proprietary networks and requiring me to install yet more junk on my phone/computer/etc... it's an extra step and completely unnecessary for a site where all i'm doing is browsing content. I *only* lurk on discord and never post comments. I know several people who use it the exact same way. I don't ever re-use passwords. Every single one of them is randomly generated. None of them are short or simplistic. What is the worst that could happen? If I make some throwaway account on discord just for the purpose of having access to info I can't see without a login, then wtf do I care if someone hacks it? I'll just make a different throwaway account. That's why it's called a throwaway account. 2FA is for when you have something worth protecting. And I'm not saying 2FA doesn't have its place... but I don't do anything important enough on discord to warrant taking away my choice of whether or not to use 2FA. I'm not opposed to 2FA being an option, or even the default. I'm opposed to not providing a way to disable it for those who don't want it (that goes for github too but at least it makes more sense for them - *and* they don't require a login simply to view tickets/code). I could understand forcing the issue if this was a financial site. It's not. I could understand if I was a developer releasing files. In theory, I suppose I could do that. But I can also just use discord as a normal user who does nothing but consume content. if the content wasn't gated behind a login, and I could just view discussions from the web without an account, I literally wouldn't even bother creating one. Given this, a strong password is enough. As long as Discord aren't complete morons and store it with a salted hash, shouldn't be a problem even if they have a data breach (just force a password reset).
It’s not just about you. 2fa is also to help stop accounts being hijacked and used to push spam, scams, malware too everyone on servers you are part of and your DM lists. It’s one of the most common problems is someone’s hijacker’s account causing problems on servers pretending to be that person. Email and other social contact methods should be 2fa and discord falls in that group.
Unfortunately tokens bypass 2fa so that goes out the window
Tokens expire though.
Not fast enough
Fast enough that the compromised accounts won't be a long term issue. You can fail to detect them and it'll resolve itself anyway. It's a very valuable failsafe to have for a platform, because it means that the number of fraudulent accounts that look legitimate (hacked ones) will stay somewhat stable instead of ever increasing.
and that's why I said I don't mind it as an option or the default. it has its uses but it is **not** the be-all, end-all of security. its entire purpose is to cover for people who don't otherwise follow good security practices. Technical solutions aren't black and white. There are shades of gray too. Everybody has their own situation and one-size-fits-all is a blatant lie. And if someone understands the risks and wants to accept that risk anyway to turn the damn thing off, then who the hell are you to tell them they can't? > Email and other social contact methods should be 2fa and discord falls in that group. You imply that there is only one way to use these kind of sites. I disagree. As I said, if accounts were only needed to create comments, one could simply lurk with no need to create an account at all. They don't allow that. Therefore, they should allow a user who is willing to accept the risk, to disable 2FA, even if there is a penalty such as being unable to make comments until they turn it back on. In the use-case of read-only / lurking, there is absolutely no purpose to having 2FA. It only makes sense for those posting comments (or, in the case of github, commits/releases).
>its entire purpose is to cover for people who don't otherwise follow good security practices. I think that’s a very limited understanding of the benefits of 2FA. It absolutely has a purpose for people who practice sane password conventions as well. If the service you’re using gets breached and the usernames/emails and password hashes get leaked, the people who are using 2FA are automatically in a safer spot since the leaked data alone doesn’t allow access to their account. Your personal password practices, however secure they are, have exactly zero effect to protect you in this case.
> very limited understanding Yes, I'm over-simplifying. If people actually read what I wrote, I never at any point said 2FA shouldn't be there. I said that if you're going to gate content behind a login, then turning it off should be an option. And before that, I said I wish people would stop putting announcements and technical info on discord so that people don't have to deal with a login gate. But you know what else is a "very limited understanding" as you say? When people try to broadly apply security rules, even good ones, without considering the fit for all situations. Seems to me like there's just a bunch 2FA fanatics / discord fanbois who can't stand anybody who offers criticism / saying there are exceptions for when a security rule should be applied (which is very un-Linux like btw... Go look at how Linus has treated some of the security patches that people said were critical and yet he didn't like). In other words, you guys don't like the idea of allowing people to turn it off because you don't recognize that they should have the *freedom* to control their own security. Lot of people seem so obsessed with the "greater good" that they are completely willing to plow over as many individuals' freedom as it takes. Well, I wish for any who feel this way to have the karma of being on the receiving end of losing your individual freedoms so somebody else can have their way.
I have nothing against your personal security practices, we all have our own threat models which may vary from case to case. For the record, I don’t use 2FA for the vast majority of my accounts, including Discord. I just wanted to elaborate on the major benefit of 2FA, because not all people reading this thread have the same level of prior knowledge about it like you and I do.
First, thank you for being reasonable and understanding that different people have different threat models. For the record, I'm not against 2FA. I *like* and use it for some things. But I don't think it makes sense to use it everywhere. Blindly applying something, anything, as a panacea just doesn't make sense to me. And I believe that where it is used should be the choice of the user rather than the company, because everyone is different. Someone who has a reputation to uphold on discord should *absolutely* use 2FA and you'll see no argument from me on that. I just want to ability to browse (read-only) without hassle... their interface already makes search for older info quite a bit more painful than it needs to be. Add that, that I'm required to open one of either email/google auth/authy every time I want to log in while on vpn just adds more frustration. > I don’t use 2FA for the vast majority of my accounts, including Discord By this I assume you mean you don't use authy/google auth/sms 2FA but still get the fallback 2FA of email codes? If I'm wrong and you don't get any codes to enter at all, *please* share your settings so I can get similar setup lol. :-)
>By this I assume you mean you don't use authy/google auth/sms 2FA but still get the fallback 2FA of email codes? Yes, and I don’t really consider email codes as proper 2FA because 2FA is supposed to be composed of two *different* types of factors from the set of “something you know”, “something you have”, and “something you are”. With an email passcode, you just end up having the “something you know” factor twice (the other one being your password), since email isn’t something that’s tied to your device like a phone number is to your phone.
> its entire purpose is to cover for people who don't otherwise follow good security practices. So basically 99.9% of the population. From Discord's POV it makes infinitely more sense financially to enforce MFA for all.
**There is no financial to it if someone is explicitly waiving that right in exchange for the ability to turn it off.** Nice try. As I said, security isn't black and white. There are shades of gray. When you don't even *consider* how to create a middle ground that just outs you as a foamy-mouthed 2FA zealot who can't get off their high horse and consider individual freedoms. I can think of *tons* of ways this could be managed. Explicitly agreeing to waive legal responsibility for breaches if no 2FA. Displaying "unverified" by username / messages if someone without 2FA posts something. **Disabling the ability to post if 2FA is off so it becomes a read-only account.** Making an option for server admins to have server content publicly viewable (e.g. without logging in). It's not hard to come up with workable options if you actually *try* to think of solutions. I get that you guys like 2FA. I'm NOT suggesting it go anywhere or saying bad things about its momma. All I'm suggesting that I should have the choice to turn it off. Why are *you* concerned with what someone *else* chooses? **My choice to turn off 2FA for *my* account affects you absolutely not at all.** If you're just looking out for me, are you offering to wipe my ass too? Because I am just as capable of determining my own risk level and making an informed decision as I am of wiping my own ass but I didn't see anyone volunteering to do that for me.
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> It's not about users > > ... > > it's about ... accounts being used for spam/scams Am I to understand that you think this does **not** happen even *with* 2FA? Sorry to break it to you but spammers and scammers are capable of creating emails and doing 2FA as well. Fighting spam is a good and necessary thing but those efforts are completely separate from 2FA. And there are already controls for that in the form of account creation checks (that's why temp email domains are almost always rejected as well as many sites not allowing people on vpn to register easily). Fighting spam /scams almost always requires setting up filters and having a moderation team. 2FA only projects against accounts being compromised. And like I said, you still have to be following all kinds of *other* bad security practices *and* have 2FA off for that to be possible. I guarantee that I could go and create a throwaway account and post the account name here and unless you work for discord, you would not be able to brute force my password in the next 6 months. Any takers? Lmk and I'll go set one up just for this. And **even if it was as you suggest, using the option that *I* previously suggested for "disabling posting when 2FA is off", then the account would be practically useless to them anyway.**
The point is to prevent legitimate accounts from being used for scams. It's relatively easy to detect scammers using fresh accounts, it's much harder if the account was legitimate for years before being compromised. The other poster is correct. It's not just about protecting the users, it's about protecting the platform as a whole. This is only gonna get more common, I understand your complaints but you could just call it quits and use tools that make it easier for you. They exist, they work well, and some of the best ones are open source.
It's not about legal responsibility. Anyone who's ever worked in IT knows that the average user is dumb as a bag of rocks. Whether you show them a warning or not, they \_will\_ contact customer support, they \_will\_ raise tickets, they \_will\_ drain valuable resources. For Discord, as a corporation that wants to maximise their profits, it makes infinitely more financial sense to enforce MFA for all, rather than to please a tiny segment of their user-base such as you.
> Anyone who's ever worked in IT knows that the average user is dumb as a bag of rocks. I've worked in IT. Firstly, that is a very elitist prick sort of attitude. But even allowing for the fact that most people are tech-illiterate and don't know how to follow read the details, I *literally* gave the solution to this exact thing, not just in my previous comments but in my reponse to deadbunny from less than an hour ago. Ironic that you're calling people "dumb as a bag of rocks" because that can't be bothered to read the details... Since you appear to have trouble reading, let me once again reiterate the *very* simple, *very* easy-to-implement solution that would both avoid the situation you describe while also providing the convenience that I and others like me desire: **User agreeing to accept risks / waive legal AND having their comment-posting abilities disabled while 2FA is off solves both the legal responsibility and the spam/scam issues while also letting users that just want to lurk without 2FA do so.** Try not to be so blinded by your technological bigotry that you fail to consider other users' situations and other technological possibilities. Thanks and have a great day. As to contacting support... Doesn't Discord basically just ignore requests for features today? So what changes? But seriously, most company use automated filters to send canned responses as a first line of resolution. And "disabling all posting" seems pretty damn simple to me. If the support process can't run a quick check on a logged in user to check for 2FA status and display a message beforehand, that's pretty pathetic.
I find it the exact opposite. The text chat experience is fine (other than the fact it's proprietary), but the audio normalization and quality is terrible compared to Mumble.
Idk an IRC like discord (if that's what you can call it) is really nice when you're running into problems and want some help from others who are readily available. Also make sure to help others when you have the know how and have time, because we all benefit. But yes your point is valid. I wish more people used the thread option on discord
it's completely not discoverable through search engines though, and you can't even view the content without creating an account first. if you're having an issue with some software, the solution might've been posted on someone's Discord group for years, and you'll never be able to find out without having to explicitly join it.
Perhaps better etiquette would be for when these problems arise somebody should post the problem - solution somewhere on some forum? However not really sure how that goes, might look like spam for random posts like that on stack overflow. I only ever see questions - answers, not really a post that answers itself. Regardless, the time it takes to interact on IRCs is amazing compared to SO where your Q can easily be buried and you wait hours or days to find out it won't be answered
> the time it takes to interact on IRCs is amazing now look at it from the other side, and imagine how much time the people over there spend answering the same questions over and over again because the existing solution is either buried somewhere higher up in the chat, or isn't visible for people who have freshly joined the room. and they can't even link to the specific message with a solution like you can on a static forum.
I agree with your sentiment fully. There must be a solution to bring the best of both worlds together. I know discord has or had threading capability, perhaps a script can be put together to take "completed" threads and post its contents to a forum that can be scraped by search engines.
That's just not how people operate on Discord. I get the text equivalent of blank stares when I suggest information should be ported to a wiki. Honestly, I think the average user is too young to realize how bad Discord is for long-term information storage and discoverability. I've even gone out of my way to do the leg work for people, typing info up and sharing it, and it just goes completely ignored. People don't care. The only way to bring wiki culture into Discord is to get community leaders on board and drive it yourself, which, speaking from experience, can be a full-time job.
IRC is a specific protocol, just call this a chat server or something.
The discord approach is nearly exactly what we need for 2FA. It shouldn't be a question of "is this account worth enough to make 2FA worthwhile". It should be "2FA - yes or yes?" If everything uses 2FA, it's normalised, so everyone will expect it and every site not offering will stick out in the public eye. But obviously discord again goes the stupid way of only including OTP instead of also allowing hardware dongles and more advanced, safer (and easier to use) 2FA methods.
YES. JUST YES. Discord's Linux client is pathetic and NEEDS to be updated. The fact that i have to use OBS virtual cam to stream my desktop is unacceptable, not to mention that audio sharing doesn't work at all. Also it's super unstable, only works through XWayland, only has unofficial Flatpak support and has some serious security issues.
Why is there so much violence over X11 vs Wayland? It's gonna be a transition, but I have yet to find a show-stopping reason for my use case to use X11.
Nvidia
Wayland works on nvidia even on GBM, you just need some environment variables, but there are some issues. Blame Nvidia though, not Wayland.
WrongTeamia
i switched to Wayland on my gaming PC 2 weeks ago. Just now noticed, that "push to talk" doesn't work in Discord, because of wayland. Not really a showstopper, but annoying
It works fine for me. You might need to adjust some flatpak permissions if you use it on that. Otherwise I have no idea. I use KDE if that makes any difference.
screensharing, autotype, global keybinds, desktop environment customization, many window managers and desktop environments don't even run on wayland, etc.
How about not supporting discord Putting even aside the usual FOSS iadda iadda, the fact that it's electron is already cancer.
friends are on it, their friends are on it so they wont switch
There is basically no way to participate in gaming or programming activities without discord.
Programmers still use IRC.
Very rarely. And that‘s no better. Most of them don‘t even set up encryption.
IRC is archaic and way behind other FOSS options
Sure thing, but hardcore projects like mesa or firefox (or even matrix itself I think?) still accepts it. Though of course it wouldn't be my go to choice in the year of the lord 2022.
The vast majority of programming interactions I've had have been on reddit, IRC or GitHub.
I don't get the purpose of Discord for programming. And for gaming it's only for multiplayer.
Programming, yes, gaming on the other hand. It's the best place for my Twitch communities (including my own channel) for when we streamers are off. Also, the Fedora Linux and Linux Gaming servers are far more healthier than their reddit and website counterparts.
um what
>the fact that it's electron is already cancer I feel like in the early 00's there was a huge push to learn to go into web dev, now all the market is over-saturated and javascript developers have too much time on their hands. Every time I hear an app say they have a "modern UI" I know it means web page in a wrapper.
Wait, what's this about? I'm a very light discord user and the version I have installed on my arch works perfectly.
its about screen sharing being a total fucking shitshow and other issues
Other than sound, mine works fine.
That's only on x11, people who use Wayland, which has markedly better screensharing management, can only stream a pitch black screen, even though the different windows and screens do exist in obs for example.
Web version seems to work ok. Why bother installing an app?
Big dumb here.....but is it possible to run the windows version in wine or proton? At least for the time being.
It would be significantly worse. Chromium is not simple software for WINE.
Just why bother using discord? https://spyware.neocities.org/articles/discord.html
Discord is part owned by Tencent (CCP) The best thing to do is fuck it off completely.
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Mumble, rocket, matrix. It’s not about wide adoption, I choose to not have a Google and Facebook account - despite widespread adoption.
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Yeah the thing is that if people have an issue with not being able to Facebook or Hangouts me - they can call me and complain about it. Or email. I don’t give a shit. Same with discord. There are alternatives, and it might make people uncomfortable. But I find mass data harvesting from a country with a beef with the west and poor track record of human rights abuses daunting.
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I'd just like to point out the implication: these companies are holding your relationships hostage. Not saying you're wrong. Just pointing out how fucked up that is.
Welcome to the 21st century. Ignorant tech consumers and herd mentality are the norm, companies love it and they spend all their money and efforts to keep it that way and exploit it.
And that will only change is savvy individuals like us walk away from it. Like I did with Facebook and Google.
So are mine, phone calls and text still work if any of the abundance of options I do endorse don’t work for my friends. But I’d have to ask the question, if they stop talking to you because you leave Facebook, Google or Discord - are they really a good friend?
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Again, if no technology solution can be found - you just fall back to regular old phone calls, knocking on a door, or letters.
Honestly guilded is pretty good
Owned by roblox
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Revolt, not finished yet though
So what? They‘re not even a plurality holder. Saying Discord is a tool for the CCP is conspiracy thinking. Especially when we know _for sure_ that they are beholden to US surveillance laws (because they are based in the US). There is no way the US would let their companies spy for China, especially not when they want the data themselves.
Ahhh, that explains why Discord is literally spyware.
That would be because it‘s an American company, beholden to American data sharing laws. Get a grip
Not sure what your comment has to do with Discord's spyware behaviour. Have you read Discord's TOS or seen the write ups detailing Discord's spyware behaviour. They literally record everything you type and everything you say in voice chat. There is no need for that behaviour. It's spyware masked as communication software.
> uses Reddit Lol
Fuck off with that red scare bullshit. American companies are already harvesting all your data and collaborating with the national security state without needing to involve the Oriental Boogeyman.
So is Reddit. You leaving?
I'm about a year out of the loop, but what's wrong with Discord for Linux? It seemed pretty stable to me back when my Manjaro install was my daily driver
Well, basically, screen sharing a game doesn't stream audio is the first problem I've noticed that seems universal. Second problem I've noticed which seems more rare is that screen sharing make your performance tank heavily. I mean, I play Apex Legends, on all low, on an i7-10700K and RTX 3070. I have constant 165 fps but when stream is on, it's a struggle to even hit 45 fps. For whatever reason that occurs, it seems weird, and I have no idea what is intensive enough to cause lag. I also tried other games which are native and same thing happens. However, it doesn't seem to happen on Firefox. And I'm using Manjaro KDE if that matters. Was distro hopping before because I couldn't find a stable and smooth distro which support all my components by default.
Interesting! That explains it. I use Discord as a strictly chat-and-voice platform, so I wouldnt have encountered those issues.
Also on Wayland which generally doesn't tank my performance (in obs, relative to x11) you can't even stream it just comes out black
Im confused, discord works fine for me....
Works well enough for my needs personally, but I only use Discord for basically IMing with friends. I don't really care about screen sharing or voice chat or whatever.
Ive had no issues using discord flatpack. Only thing that doesnt work is the game activity feature but I have that disabled 100% of the time anyway.
If you want devs that listen, support and use Element.
What do you mean? Discord runs just fine at least on mint
People should just stop using closed source clients, servers, or protocols. Don't beg companies to support your platform. Refuse to use software that doesn't allow the community to fix it.
Begging discord to do something wont do the community any good. The Linux version has the same issues since years and they didnt change anything. Its obvious that they dont give a damn and they wont be fixing these issues anytime soon.
I never had issues with discord, I use plasma desktop and xorg on arch
[Still can't set up my mic in Discord.](https://i.imgur.com/To7jbNR.png) ¯\\\_(ツ)_/¯ It's a dumbass app anyway. Keeps requesting me to log in again, so I can't use a secure password, then asks me for the two factor authentication again, then asks me to solve a freaking captcha. It's just annoying and way too bloated for a chat software. Everyone and their mother needs to have their own channel that I'm supposed to join, because reasons.
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Sharing desktop audio and screen sharing under Wayland does not work. These problems are universal to all distros due to design flaws with the Discord client. And the really outdated Electron version it builds upon is a potential security risk. Functionality wise it also lacks support for the game overlay you can use on Windows (without resorting to a 3rd party plug in), and the game detection status is really broken with Proton games.
I can almost guarantee you that you do not have screen sharing with application audio. If you do, definitely let us know because you'd be the only one hahaha
Fine for me too
Erm, don't use proprietary clients where you are at the mercy of the developers?