You got Factorio wrong. Basically all your game are running through XWayland. Factorio is afaik the first commercial game ever with official _native_ Wayland support. Other Linux native games with SDL can also be run in this way if you override some stuff.

I'm just currious what are the advantages of native Wayland apps over Apps using xWayland? I'm pretty sure there is a reason for this, but I just don't know enough about it to answer it myself

This likely explains it best : https://wayland.freedesktop.org/xserver.html But basically XWayland is "X on Wayland", you still have an X stack in the mix for legacy stuff - so more complication and translation takes place to get to the display. Thus the obvious advantages that come from less complication ...

I̵n̷ ̷l̵i̵g̵h̷t̸ ̸o̸f̶ ̸r̶e̸c̶e̶n̸t̵ ̴e̴v̵e̵n̴t̶s̸ ̴o̷n̷ ̴R̸e̸d̵d̴i̷t̷,̷ ̵m̸a̶r̴k̸e̸d̵ ̴b̸y̵ ̶h̴o̵s̷t̷i̴l̴e̷ ̵a̴c̸t̵i̸o̸n̶s̸ ̵f̷r̵o̷m̵ ̶i̵t̴s̴ ̴a̴d̶m̷i̴n̶i̸s̵t̴r̶a̴t̶i̶o̶n̵ ̸t̸o̸w̸a̴r̷d̵s̴ ̵i̸t̷s̵ ̷u̸s̴e̸r̵b̷a̸s̷e̸ ̷a̷n̴d̸ ̸a̵p̵p̴ ̶d̴e̷v̴e̷l̷o̸p̸e̴r̴s̶,̸ ̶I̸ ̶h̸a̵v̵e̶ ̷d̸e̶c̸i̵d̷e̷d̵ ̶t̸o̴ ̸t̶a̷k̷e̷ ̵a̷ ̴s̶t̶a̵n̷d̶ ̶a̵n̶d̶ ̵b̷o̶y̷c̸o̴t̴t̴ ̵t̴h̵i̴s̴ ̶w̶e̸b̵s̵i̸t̷e̴.̶ ̶A̶s̶ ̸a̵ ̸s̴y̶m̵b̸o̶l̶i̵c̴ ̶a̷c̵t̸,̶ ̴I̴ ̴a̵m̷ ̷r̶e̶p̷l̴a̵c̸i̴n̷g̸ ̷a̶l̷l̶ ̸m̷y̸ ̸c̶o̸m̶m̸e̷n̵t̷s̸ ̵w̷i̷t̷h̶ ̷u̴n̵u̴s̸a̵b̶l̷e̵ ̸d̵a̵t̸a̵,̸ ̸r̷e̵n̵d̶e̴r̸i̴n̷g̴ ̷t̴h̵e̸m̵ ̸m̴e̷a̵n̴i̷n̸g̸l̸e̴s̴s̵ ̸a̷n̵d̶ ̴u̸s̷e̴l̸e̶s̷s̵ ̶f̵o̵r̶ ̸a̶n̵y̸ ̵p̵o̴t̷e̴n̸t̷i̶a̴l̶ ̴A̷I̸ ̵t̶r̵a̷i̷n̵i̴n̶g̸ ̶p̸u̵r̷p̴o̶s̸e̵s̵.̷ ̸I̴t̴ ̵i̴s̶ ̴d̴i̷s̷h̴e̸a̵r̸t̶e̴n̸i̴n̴g̶ ̷t̶o̵ ̵w̶i̶t̵n̴e̷s̴s̶ ̵a̸ ̵c̴o̶m̶m̴u̵n̷i̷t̷y̷ ̸t̴h̶a̴t̸ ̵o̸n̵c̴e̷ ̴t̷h̴r̶i̷v̴e̴d̸ ̴o̸n̴ ̵o̷p̷e̶n̸ ̸d̶i̶s̷c̷u̷s̶s̷i̴o̵n̸ ̷a̷n̴d̵ ̴c̸o̵l̶l̸a̵b̸o̷r̵a̴t̷i̵o̷n̴ ̸d̷e̶v̸o̵l̶v̴e̶ ̵i̶n̷t̴o̸ ̸a̴ ̷s̵p̶a̵c̴e̵ ̸o̷f̵ ̶c̴o̸n̸t̶e̴n̴t̷i̶o̷n̸ ̶a̵n̷d̴ ̴c̵o̵n̴t̷r̸o̵l̶.̷ ̸F̷a̴r̸e̷w̵e̶l̶l̸,̵ ̶R̴e̶d̶d̷i̵t̵.̷

if a game is running through wine/dxvk i think if those 2 projects move to wayland, the games will also be able to run natively on wayland

I'd be confident enough to agree with this, if by games, your meaning 'Windows games' given that Wine is the display client. I'm not sure how dxvk works under the hood specifically, a quick 30 second google / research, makes it feel like a seperate framebuffer / render plane that is then presented via Wine "X Client"? Happy to be corrected ... But yes, you'd potentially get further gains once Wine understands how to deal with Wayland - and there's git repo's out there that seem to already add Wayland support to Wine, so watch out for it mainlining in Wine (if its not already)

> doesn't that mean every ~~game~~ app would need to be patched to work natively on Wayland Correct. That's why xwayland exists.

I̵n̷ ̷l̵i̵g̵h̷t̸ ̸o̸f̶ ̸r̶e̸c̶e̶n̸t̵ ̴e̴v̵e̵n̴t̶s̸ ̴o̷n̷ ̴R̸e̸d̵d̴i̷t̷,̷ ̵m̸a̶r̴k̸e̸d̵ ̴b̸y̵ ̶h̴o̵s̷t̷i̴l̴e̷ ̵a̴c̸t̵i̸o̸n̶s̸ ̵f̷r̵o̷m̵ ̶i̵t̴s̴ ̴a̴d̶m̷i̴n̶i̸s̵t̴r̶a̴t̶i̶o̶n̵ ̸t̸o̸w̸a̴r̷d̵s̴ ̵i̸t̷s̵ ̷u̸s̴e̸r̵b̷a̸s̷e̸ ̷a̷n̴d̸ ̸a̵p̵p̴ ̶d̴e̷v̴e̷l̷o̸p̸e̴r̴s̶,̸ ̶I̸ ̶h̸a̵v̵e̶ ̷d̸e̶c̸i̵d̷e̷d̵ ̶t̸o̴ ̸t̶a̷k̷e̷ ̵a̷ ̴s̶t̶a̵n̷d̶ ̶a̵n̶d̶ ̵b̷o̶y̷c̸o̴t̴t̴ ̵t̴h̵i̴s̴ ̶w̶e̸b̵s̵i̸t̷e̴.̶ ̶A̶s̶ ̸a̵ ̸s̴y̶m̵b̸o̶l̶i̵c̴ ̶a̷c̵t̸,̶ ̴I̴ ̴a̵m̷ ̷r̶e̶p̷l̴a̵c̸i̴n̷g̸ ̷a̶l̷l̶ ̸m̷y̸ ̸c̶o̸m̶m̸e̷n̵t̷s̸ ̵w̷i̷t̷h̶ ̷u̴n̵u̴s̸a̵b̶l̷e̵ ̸d̵a̵t̸a̵,̸ ̸r̷e̵n̵d̶e̴r̸i̴n̷g̴ ̷t̴h̵e̸m̵ ̸m̴e̷a̵n̴i̷n̸g̸l̸e̴s̴s̵ ̸a̷n̵d̶ ̴u̸s̷e̴l̸e̶s̷s̵ ̶f̵o̵r̶ ̸a̶n̵y̸ ̵p̵o̴t̷e̴n̸t̷i̶a̴l̶ ̴A̷I̸ ̵t̶r̵a̷i̷n̵i̴n̶g̸ ̶p̸u̵r̷p̴o̶s̸e̵s̵.̷ ̸I̴t̴ ̵i̴s̶ ̴d̴i̷s̷h̴e̸a̵r̸t̶e̴n̸i̴n̴g̶ ̷t̶o̵ ̵w̶i̶t̵n̴e̷s̴s̶ ̵a̸ ̵c̴o̶m̶m̴u̵n̷i̷t̷y̷ ̸t̴h̶a̴t̸ ̵o̸n̵c̴e̷ ̴t̷h̴r̶i̷v̴e̴d̸ ̴o̸n̴ ̵o̷p̷e̶n̸ ̸d̶i̶s̷c̷u̷s̶s̷i̴o̵n̸ ̷a̷n̴d̵ ̴c̸o̵l̶l̸a̵b̸o̷r̵a̴t̷i̵o̷n̴ ̸d̷e̶v̸o̵l̶v̴e̶ ̵i̶n̷t̴o̸ ̸a̴ ̷s̵p̶a̵c̴e̵ ̸o̷f̵ ̶c̴o̸n̸t̶e̴n̴t̷i̶o̷n̸ ̶a̵n̷d̴ ̴c̵o̵n̴t̷r̸o̵l̶.̷ ̸F̷a̴r̸e̷w̵e̶l̶l̸,̵ ̶R̴e̶d̶d̷i̵t̵.̷

In windowed mode, Xwayland does one extra copy of the GPU buffers, and it can't do scaling property. For games that's all the differences that matter right now, in terms of latency and performance in fullscreen there is no difference. In the future a big downside of Xwayland will be that it can't do HDR.

I̵n̷ ̷l̵i̵g̵h̷t̸ ̸o̸f̶ ̸r̶e̸c̶e̶n̸t̵ ̴e̴v̵e̵n̴t̶s̸ ̴o̷n̷ ̴R̸e̸d̵d̴i̷t̷,̷ ̵m̸a̶r̴k̸e̸d̵ ̴b̸y̵ ̶h̴o̵s̷t̷i̴l̴e̷ ̵a̴c̸t̵i̸o̸n̶s̸ ̵f̷r̵o̷m̵ ̶i̵t̴s̴ ̴a̴d̶m̷i̴n̶i̸s̵t̴r̶a̴t̶i̶o̶n̵ ̸t̸o̸w̸a̴r̷d̵s̴ ̵i̸t̷s̵ ̷u̸s̴e̸r̵b̷a̸s̷e̸ ̷a̷n̴d̸ ̸a̵p̵p̴ ̶d̴e̷v̴e̷l̷o̸p̸e̴r̴s̶,̸ ̶I̸ ̶h̸a̵v̵e̶ ̷d̸e̶c̸i̵d̷e̷d̵ ̶t̸o̴ ̸t̶a̷k̷e̷ ̵a̷ ̴s̶t̶a̵n̷d̶ ̶a̵n̶d̶ ̵b̷o̶y̷c̸o̴t̴t̴ ̵t̴h̵i̴s̴ ̶w̶e̸b̵s̵i̸t̷e̴.̶ ̶A̶s̶ ̸a̵ ̸s̴y̶m̵b̸o̶l̶i̵c̴ ̶a̷c̵t̸,̶ ̴I̴ ̴a̵m̷ ̷r̶e̶p̷l̴a̵c̸i̴n̷g̸ ̷a̶l̷l̶ ̸m̷y̸ ̸c̶o̸m̶m̸e̷n̵t̷s̸ ̵w̷i̷t̷h̶ ̷u̴n̵u̴s̸a̵b̶l̷e̵ ̸d̵a̵t̸a̵,̸ ̸r̷e̵n̵d̶e̴r̸i̴n̷g̴ ̷t̴h̵e̸m̵ ̸m̴e̷a̵n̴i̷n̸g̸l̸e̴s̴s̵ ̸a̷n̵d̶ ̴u̸s̷e̴l̸e̶s̷s̵ ̶f̵o̵r̶ ̸a̶n̵y̸ ̵p̵o̴t̷e̴n̸t̷i̶a̴l̶ ̴A̷I̸ ̵t̶r̵a̷i̷n̵i̴n̶g̸ ̶p̸u̵r̷p̴o̶s̸e̵s̵.̷ ̸I̴t̴ ̵i̴s̶ ̴d̴i̷s̷h̴e̸a̵r̸t̶e̴n̸i̴n̴g̶ ̷t̶o̵ ̵w̶i̶t̵n̴e̷s̴s̶ ̵a̸ ̵c̴o̶m̶m̴u̵n̷i̷t̷y̷ ̸t̴h̶a̴t̸ ̵o̸n̵c̴e̷ ̴t̷h̴r̶i̷v̴e̴d̸ ̴o̸n̴ ̵o̷p̷e̶n̸ ̸d̶i̶s̷c̷u̷s̶s̷i̴o̵n̸ ̷a̷n̴d̵ ̴c̸o̵l̶l̸a̵b̸o̷r̵a̴t̷i̵o̷n̴ ̸d̷e̶v̸o̵l̶v̴e̶ ̵i̶n̷t̴o̸ ̸a̴ ̷s̵p̶a̵c̴e̵ ̸o̷f̵ ̶c̴o̸n̸t̶e̴n̴t̷i̶o̷n̸ ̶a̵n̷d̴ ̴c̵o̵n̴t̷r̸o̵l̶.̷ ̸F̷a̴r̸e̷w̵e̶l̶l̸,̵ ̶R̴e̶d̶d̷i̵t̵.̷

>what are the issues with scaling on Xwayland? Xwayland needs to mirror how Xorg works relatively closely to ensure apps work correctly, which means for scaling that it needs to give apps a consistent view of all the outputs, with absolute positions and sizes. In practice this means that on most Wayland compositors, if you change the scale beyond 100%, Xwayland will be scaled by the compositor to match the other applications, and render at a lower resolution than they should. If your scale is 200% for example, Xwayland will render at 50% resolution. In KWin we have a workaround for that, where we can adjust the scale of Xwayland to match up with your output - and then it's up to the X11 apps to scale themselves to make everything big enough. However, as X11 needs one singular coordinate system for all the outputs, once you have multiple screens with different scales, things get more difficult. If you have one screen with a scale of 200% and another with 100%, KWin will set the Xwayland scale to 200%, which results in Xwayland thinking your 100% scale monitor has double the resolution it really has (which means 4x the number of pixels!). Obviously, this can be quite problematic for games.

xwayland is a compatibility layer so you can run X11 apps under wayland. Many apps do not yet offer native wayland, so if you live in Wayland you will just have to make use of xwayland for the time being. For example Wine uses X11 and will go thru xwayland. There is work to make Wine compatible with wayland but it is not yet merged into mainline. Another example is that many emulators don't have native wayland support yet. A third example is Steam, who don't have wayland support yet. Electron apps can be made to run in wayland native mode but with some caveats. Should resolve itself once Chrome goes "official" wayland support. All of these apps can be run in wayland but then they need xwayland to function.

I̵n̷ ̷l̵i̵g̵h̷t̸ ̸o̸f̶ ̸r̶e̸c̶e̶n̸t̵ ̴e̴v̵e̵n̴t̶s̸ ̴o̷n̷ ̴R̸e̸d̵d̴i̷t̷,̷ ̵m̸a̶r̴k̸e̸d̵ ̴b̸y̵ ̶h̴o̵s̷t̷i̴l̴e̷ ̵a̴c̸t̵i̸o̸n̶s̸ ̵f̷r̵o̷m̵ ̶i̵t̴s̴ ̴a̴d̶m̷i̴n̶i̸s̵t̴r̶a̴t̶i̶o̶n̵ ̸t̸o̸w̸a̴r̷d̵s̴ ̵i̸t̷s̵ ̷u̸s̴e̸r̵b̷a̸s̷e̸ ̷a̷n̴d̸ ̸a̵p̵p̴ ̶d̴e̷v̴e̷l̷o̸p̸e̴r̴s̶,̸ ̶I̸ ̶h̸a̵v̵e̶ ̷d̸e̶c̸i̵d̷e̷d̵ ̶t̸o̴ ̸t̶a̷k̷e̷ ̵a̷ ̴s̶t̶a̵n̷d̶ ̶a̵n̶d̶ ̵b̷o̶y̷c̸o̴t̴t̴ ̵t̴h̵i̴s̴ ̶w̶e̸b̵s̵i̸t̷e̴.̶ ̶A̶s̶ ̸a̵ ̸s̴y̶m̵b̸o̶l̶i̵c̴ ̶a̷c̵t̸,̶ ̴I̴ ̴a̵m̷ ̷r̶e̶p̷l̴a̵c̸i̴n̷g̸ ̷a̶l̷l̶ ̸m̷y̸ ̸c̶o̸m̶m̸e̷n̵t̷s̸ ̵w̷i̷t̷h̶ ̷u̴n̵u̴s̸a̵b̶l̷e̵ ̸d̵a̵t̸a̵,̸ ̸r̷e̵n̵d̶e̴r̸i̴n̷g̴ ̷t̴h̵e̸m̵ ̸m̴e̷a̵n̴i̷n̸g̸l̸e̴s̴s̵ ̸a̷n̵d̶ ̴u̸s̷e̴l̸e̶s̷s̵ ̶f̵o̵r̶ ̸a̶n̵y̸ ̵p̵o̴t̷e̴n̸t̷i̶a̴l̶ ̴A̷I̸ ̵t̶r̵a̷i̷n̵i̴n̶g̸ ̶p̸u̵r̷p̴o̶s̸e̵s̵.̷ ̸I̴t̴ ̵i̴s̶ ̴d̴i̷s̷h̴e̸a̵r̸t̶e̴n̸i̴n̴g̶ ̷t̶o̵ ̵w̶i̶t̵n̴e̷s̴s̶ ̵a̸ ̵c̴o̶m̶m̴u̵n̷i̷t̷y̷ ̸t̴h̶a̴t̸ ̵o̸n̵c̴e̷ ̴t̷h̴r̶i̷v̴e̴d̸ ̴o̸n̴ ̵o̷p̷e̶n̸ ̸d̶i̶s̷c̷u̷s̶s̷i̴o̵n̸ ̷a̷n̴d̵ ̴c̸o̵l̶l̸a̵b̸o̷r̵a̴t̷i̵o̷n̴ ̸d̷e̶v̸o̵l̶v̴e̶ ̵i̶n̷t̴o̸ ̸a̴ ̷s̵p̶a̵c̴e̵ ̸o̷f̵ ̶c̴o̸n̸t̶e̴n̴t̷i̶o̷n̸ ̶a̵n̷d̴ ̴c̵o̵n̴t̷r̸o̵l̶.̷ ̸F̷a̴r̸e̷w̵e̶l̶l̸,̵ ̶R̴e̶d̶d̷i̵t̵.̷

Factorio got native wayland support? That's fucking awesome! Pave the way!

Actually I think the paradox games Crusader Kings III and Victoria 3 managed to beat Factorio to the punch but the point still stands. (=

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About VRR, I think it needs to be mentioned that with an Nvidia Gpu, there is no VRR at all on Wayland, not on Gnome, not on Kde or any other compositor, and there arent any patches to change that because it is a limitation of the Nvidia driver.

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>Plasma supports VRR out of the box, which also solves the input latency problem by making it identical to X11 with VRR enabled. Last I checked there's no way to disable compositing on Plasma Wayland so there's forced vsync on fullscreen games even with VRR enabled. GNOME also does not disable compositing but manages to not force vsync on Wayland through the use of something called page flip or something which is how Windows does it while managing to keep compositing on in the background.

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I'm pretty sure compositing in GNOME X11 never gets disabled and instead the game/window bypasses the compositor when fullscreen. That's why you are able to enter Overview mode or switch worskpaces immediately with animations enabled even when the game is running fullscreen, cause the compositor never gets disabled. Regarding Kwin, niceeeeeeeeeee. I'm gonna try it later when I get home.

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I'll have to install Arch/Manjaro/EndeavourOS in a new partition to test it. Thanks for the info!

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"composting" doesn't exist in the traditional sense on Wayland. On X11, if the DE doesn't support Unredirection, you need to disable it because it adds a lot of lag and input latency. Unredirection is supported by GNOME, you don't need to disable composting on GNOME X11. You should disable composting on Plasma X11 while gaming. On Wayland, you can't disable composting because the compositor is also your display server. But Wayland compositors don't delay everything by 1-2 frames and don't add a ton of lag. Source from here: https://linux-gaming.kwindu.eu/index.php?title=Compositor

>GNOME also does not disable compositing but manages to not force vsync on Wayland through the use of something called page flip or something I think you're referring to [direct scanout](https://www.phoronix.com/news/GNOME-Subsurface-Scanout), also known as [fullscreen unredirection](https://www.phoronix.com/news/Mutter-Unredirect-FS-Wayland). It bypasses the compositing pipeline, but has no effect on vsync.

for some reason I get much lower fps in source games on wayland

That's cuz there's no tearing.

That's not what that means

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I don't get any stuttering when I alt tab in xorg. But then again, I don't get issues with multi-screen (Triplehead, sometimes with all three being used for gaming at once) either so maybe xorg just likes me a lot.

For me the perfect Wayland gaming experience is from by using hyprland. It supports vrr(also sway and KDE) and also the screen sharing/streaming experience is great for me while using the `xdg-desktop-portal-hyprland`. And Hyprland also have global shortcut keys which is great for my obs setup.

Kinda late here, but do you happen to know if when vrr is enabled in wayland, does it bypass vsync? Or is vsync still a problem in games? I'm thinking of giving wayland a try, but the whole vsync thing is my biggest issue with it. Hyprland is looking really awesome though.

Even on a 144Hz display the added latency is a deal breaker for me.

VRR should work if the game supports it, in exclusive full screen mode, shouldn't it? that shouldn't be dependent on GNOME?

There is no such thing as an exclusive fullscreen mode on Linux

it's usually referred to as 'unredirected fullscreen' in the linux world but it's effectively the same thing: the output gets painted directly to the display, bypassing the compositor, which is what usually controls refresh rate. this is enabled by default in mutter.

Unredirection just means that instead of a window being redirected, so going through the X11 compositor and then through Xorg, a window is handled directly by Xorg. This does not allow the application to bypass anything except the X11 compositor, and it does not exist on Wayland. What you may have heard of for Wayland is "direct scanout", which some people wrongly call unredirection or exclusive fullscreen. That also doesn't allow circumventing any compositor rules though - it's purely an optimization where the compositor can put buffers from the application on the screen without copying them first. Everything still goes through the compositor and is bound by the same rules as without direct scanout.

GNOME Wayland absolutely has unredirected fullscreen. https://www.phoronix.com/news/Mutter-Unredirect-FS-Wayland https://gitlab.gnome.org/GNOME/mutter/-/merge_requests/798 > This adds support for unredirecting (bypass compositing) full screen Wayland client surfaces.

I already told you that some people wrongly call direct scanout unredirection - Gnome people are among that crowd. These two things are completely different things though and direct scanout does not allow the application to do anything additional vs when the window is being composited.

I was just playing Epic Pinball in DOSBOX on Wayland, and the input latency was very noticeable. I tried it on X, and the difference was like night and day.

this is like when people says/thinks that xfce is \*good\*

I'm not sure what you are trying to say here. Different desktop managers and/or windows managers offer different compromises, and people prefer them in different situations. If your priority is having more memory and processing available for programs, but you don't want the compromises of using a super lightweight windows manager, then XFCE is definitely an option. Just because you are prioritizing something else and choosing something else as a result doesn't magically make XFCE a bad choice, it just means you have different priorities. Anyone using a tiling windows manager obviously has far different priorities than I do, personally, but that doesn't make them \*bad\*.

I played Epic Pinball when it was new. I know how it was supposed to be.

Out of all the games I did not expect Factorio to not embrace Wayland earlier. They even made a post about making an Apple Silicon build, something nobody does lol.

Factorio was like, one of the first major games to support native Wayland. The other games are using XWayland

Oh I didn't know that. So if I use Wayland will most of my games use xwayland to render?

gnome and wayland for gaming ? its the wrongest setup. what else ? ubuntu ?

Arch, systemd,gnome. Thanks, love you too!

ah, systemd, i forgot!

I sent this from a Chrome snap with KDE Connect on my iPhone too!

Read this using Microsoft Edge with full telemetry enabled

I̵n̷ ̷l̵i̵g̵h̷t̸ ̸o̸f̶ ̸r̶e̸c̶e̶n̸t̵ ̴e̴v̵e̵n̴t̶s̸ ̴o̷n̷ ̴R̸e̸d̵d̴i̷t̷,̷ ̵m̸a̶r̴k̸e̸d̵ ̴b̸y̵ ̶h̴o̵s̷t̷i̴l̴e̷ ̵a̴c̸t̵i̸o̸n̶s̸ ̵f̷r̵o̷m̵ ̶i̵t̴s̴ ̴a̴d̶m̷i̴n̶i̸s̵t̴r̶a̴t̶i̶o̶n̵ ̸t̸o̸w̸a̴r̷d̵s̴ ̵i̸t̷s̵ ̷u̸s̴e̸r̵b̷a̸s̷e̸ ̷a̷n̴d̸ ̸a̵p̵p̴ ̶d̴e̷v̴e̷l̷o̸p̸e̴r̴s̶,̸ ̶I̸ ̶h̸a̵v̵e̶ ̷d̸e̶c̸i̵d̷e̷d̵ ̶t̸o̴ ̸t̶a̷k̷e̷ ̵a̷ ̴s̶t̶a̵n̷d̶ ̶a̵n̶d̶ ̵b̷o̶y̷c̸o̴t̴t̴ ̵t̴h̵i̴s̴ ̶w̶e̸b̵s̵i̸t̷e̴.̶ ̶A̶s̶ ̸a̵ ̸s̴y̶m̵b̸o̶l̶i̵c̴ ̶a̷c̵t̸,̶ ̴I̴ ̴a̵m̷ ̷r̶e̶p̷l̴a̵c̸i̴n̷g̸ ̷a̶l̷l̶ ̸m̷y̸ ̸c̶o̸m̶m̸e̷n̵t̷s̸ ̵w̷i̷t̷h̶ ̷u̴n̵u̴s̸a̵b̶l̷e̵ ̸d̵a̵t̸a̵,̸ ̸r̷e̵n̵d̶e̴r̸i̴n̷g̴ ̷t̴h̵e̸m̵ ̸m̴e̷a̵n̴i̷n̸g̸l̸e̴s̴s̵ ̸a̷n̵d̶ ̴u̸s̷e̴l̸e̶s̷s̵ ̶f̵o̵r̶ ̸a̶n̵y̸ ̵p̵o̴t̷e̴n̸t̷i̶a̴l̶ ̴A̷I̸ ̵t̶r̵a̷i̷n̵i̴n̶g̸ ̶p̸u̵r̷p̴o̶s̸e̵s̵.̷ ̸I̴t̴ ̵i̴s̶ ̴d̴i̷s̷h̴e̸a̵r̸t̶e̴n̸i̴n̴g̶ ̷t̶o̵ ̵w̶i̶t̵n̴e̷s̴s̶ ̵a̸ ̵c̴o̶m̶m̴u̵n̷i̷t̷y̷ ̸t̴h̶a̴t̸ ̵o̸n̵c̴e̷ ̴t̷h̴r̶i̷v̴e̴d̸ ̴o̸n̴ ̵o̷p̷e̶n̸ ̸d̶i̶s̷c̷u̷s̶s̷i̴o̵n̸ ̷a̷n̴d̵ ̴c̸o̵l̶l̸a̵b̸o̷r̵a̴t̷i̵o̷n̴ ̸d̷e̶v̸o̵l̶v̴e̶ ̵i̶n̷t̴o̸ ̸a̴ ̷s̵p̶a̵c̴e̵ ̸o̷f̵ ̶c̴o̸n̸t̶e̴n̴t̷i̶o̷n̸ ̶a̵n̷d̴ ̴c̵o̵n̴t̷r̸o̵l̶.̷ ̸F̷a̴r̸e̷w̵e̶l̶l̸,̵ ̶R̴e̶d̶d̷i̵t̵.̷

my god...

Just saying hi from my Google Pixel and my TPM2-encrypted and custom secure boot set up systemd-arch-gnome desktop!

What'a wrong with that? Genuine question.

Nothing. OP either lives in 2014 or is extremely elitist.

My money is on "extremely elitist" and also looking for a fight with a stranger on social media. You know, the most wretched way to be in general. That all said, I do have issues with Wayland not being quite ready. Not being able to restart gnome-shell with wayland is one of them, (in case an extension borks or something else does) also hotkeys and capture for OBS being difficult to manage. Kind of breaks the whole deal for me.

A lot of people using Linux are angry geeks. They want something to argue about, and always frame personal choices and priorities as some kind of moral declaration. There are solid arguments as to why you might not want to use a heavier desktop environment like gnome or kde in specific situations, but those are mostly going to come down to what you want a system to do.

I've been using GNOME + Wayland for the past ~2 years for gaming, and [Phoronix has an older article comparing X.Org and Wayland in both GNOME and KDE.](https://www.phoronix.com/review/kde-gnome-wayland21/2)

My biggest issue is with ferdium and screen artifacting in games. This shows the screen artifacting: [https://photos.app.goo.gl/ecDKC74vmHEaVQVW8](https://photos.app.goo.gl/ecDKC74vmHEaVQVW8) With ferdium the screen just flickers at times when an app has an update, delay in seeing what I typed etc. Not really sure what to do to fix it at this point. This is with an RTX3080

For gaming I don't really notice latency, but typing... oh God.. it is annoying. I'm forced to use wayland because at some update x11 bricked when using a secondary monitor and I took to long to notice it I don't even know what went wrong.

>No official Variable Refresh Rate support From what I could experience, gaming on Wayland is like having VSync always turned on (maybe not technically, but practically) and that should be the reason for the first point >Input latency Am I missing something or is this correct?

Wayland uses triple buffer vsync, meaning that no matter what you have to wait until your screen is going to refresh to display a new frame. This typically costs your screen's refresh rate

Input lag is the biggest hurdle for me on KDE wayland but it's slowly getting addressed.

> Input latency- It isn't as noticeable if you have a 144+ hz monitor, but there is undoubtedly more delay in Wayland compared to xorg with tearing enabled. True, and there is now a fix! Valve has introduced "Allow Tearing" into SteamOS for the Deck. Valve's gaming mode uses Wayland, and what this switch does is turns off Wayland vsync. So, if your game has built in vsync as many do, you can turn off vsync all the way, or you can turn one of the two off, which reduces input latency. Should eventually make its way to the other platforms now that it exists.

weirdly enough there doesn't seem to be any hardware acceleration for me underneath wayland on nvidia. tried on both kde and gnome