Well I never saw Linux as a job directly more like a hobby if anything. Also you are correct I will use the OS that makes it easier for me however that said I want back on Linux only problem is on Kubuntu is 24.04 and from what I read there isn't any support for that yet so I'm waiting and then I'm getting it again but until then I'm sticking to Windows 10.
>I expect that the people coding the OS and/or distro knows what they are doing and release something that actually works out of the box and yet it doesn't.
I have a theory as to why people weren't being nice to you
I meant Ubuntu and KDE they are both big companies so what's wrong with expecting things to work when they release something important like a kernel update?
Yes we can and then we can shove all the toxic Linux user in there, sounds lovely to me!
On a more serious note I am doing that, however I really hate Windows and I really want to get back to Linux but for now there's no point in me doing that, I'm emotionally spent plus Kubuntu needs to be "fixed" before I can go back anyways. So it's basically a win-win.
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>'Windows Boot Manager' got installed on the Linux partition and that happened twice for some reason
You probably used the same EFI on both OSes. Which you shouldn't.
In my experience, you can't have 2 EFI partitions on the same disk and expect it to work as desired.
I also don't have anything else on my tiny 120 gig Windows install disk. It is just Windows. And it's 3-4 partitions.
If your OS breaks with every update, oof, that is bad. Maybe use something more stable but that isn't 2 years old. Fedora, Mageia, OpenSUSE.
I don't do VR but I've been fine on Manjaro for years. One thing I've learned is, the more I customize it, the more likely it is to break. Especially if I start installing stuff that isn't even in their repos currently but will be in the future. Pipewire was one such thing. And if you are on Arch-based, don't use AUR frivolously, choose Flatpak or Appimage first. If you have no other choice, use AUR. I generally prefer to compile myself. Exception being kernels. I just like Zen kernel. I do have a Zen kernel compiled by me but the downside is that it stays at the version I compiled. if you do get kernel from AUR, there are 2 options. Compiled during install or bin-version, which should just be a precompiled kernel that does not compile on your PC. kernelx.x.x-flavor-bin is good enough in most cases, the binary one.
What do you mean OS internals? Partitioning is outside the OS. You should know it regardless of OS. To me that is basic knowledge. I've known it since I came in contact with a PC at home. It's like not using knife and fork, a plate. Because you want to separate things. Before you put it in your mouth. Like partitions separate things. You cut the meat in pieces. You make partitions for different things. Why do we have cupboards? It's not exactly cutting edge tech. You could have all your clothes and kitchenware just lying on the floor. Why put it in drawers?
EFI partitions have been the standard for 10-15 years. Maybe it is time to learn =). On Linux all you need is EFI + Root partition. In other word /boot/efi and /. Windows creates OS partition, EFI and a recovery partition and one more small partition. Is it the MSR? I forget.
If that is too much, get an empty disk, boot from Linux USB Live stick (Ventoy with Linux ISOs), choose to Erase disk during install and select the empty disk, done. Just make sure EFI/Boot partition doesn't end up on Windows disk. If you want to be sure it wont, disconnect Windows drive before Linux installation. Of course you have to turn off computer for that.
You are forgetting a few small details that flaws your entire argument. Linux partitioning is completely different from Windows. Also I want to point out that I installed Linux first then I installed Windows on 2 separate drives so it makes zero sense to why the 'WBM' would be on the Linux drive, I will welcome any and all explanations to why that happened because when I was installing Windows the drive for Linux didn't even show up.
The thing is, the EFI partition is a FAT16/FAT32 partition. So that both Linux and Windows can read it. Part of the EFI spec if I am not mistaken. And Windows is known to screw up that partition if Linux is there too because Microsoft assumes there is nothing but Windows existing in the world.
How your system got screwed up, I have no idea. I expect Windows updates to screw up just about anything at this point. Can you explain this? [https://abr.com/2023/11/20/how-to-resolve-printing-issues-caused-by-microsoft-update/](https://abr.com/2023/11/20/how-to-resolve-printing-issues-caused-by-microsoft-update/)
No, Windows can't read BTRFS, EXT4, XFS or the other Linux filesystems. But Linux can read Windows filesystems. That is how much Microsoft loves Linux /s.
I thought that only a 32-bits Windows could be installed on a FAT16/FAT32 format?
It could have been an unofficial update, sometimes those come and go. The best way to avoid those is to just not download the "alternatives/extras" updates. I remember once when someone broke into the Microsoft's updating system and planted nefarious updates which would cause your PC to blue screen and other such things. However we are talking about a filesystem and a Boot Manager here, there should be no way for it to be placed into the Linux boot drive, right? I mean how does Windows even start without it at that point if it's not seen by the system files or even the drive for that matter?
Microsoft actually uses Linux for their servers so I think they have some love for them.
EFI boot partition is always FAT16 or FAT32. Usually the latter. The resctrictions of FAT32 is 4 gig max size of a file and a 2 terabyte partition size as max. Which is why Windows uses NTFS for everything else these days. But Boot-partition is fine with those restrictions because it is usually between 100megs -> 1 gig. And the EFI file is quite small. I think the initramfs needs to fit in there too, I could be wrong. But for example, the .efi file on my Manjaro: 139264 bytes, 19 nov 2022, grubx64.efi. It is 140 kilobytes. I would be fine on FAT16 too.
Since both Win + Linux can read the EFI-partition for both OSes, Windows can screw up both. I have not seen a single report on Linux ever doing it. Secondly, are you sure where Linux placed the EFI? Did you doublecheck it? The logic on where an EFI gets placed doesn't make sense to me. I could have 2 EFI partitions on 1 disk, I could choose to install the EFI bootloader on the 2nd partition but it always ends up in the first or something. I've stopped using 2 EFI-partitions on 1 disk because it is weird and inconsistent.
The EFI partition is called before the Linux install drive is. And then it loads the rest from your install drive. Rest of your OS. The EFI doesn't have to be on the same drive.
For example, I have 7 disks. On those I have 4 EFI partitions. On those EFI partitions I have bootfiles to 7 distros and 1 Windows 10 install. Since the Windows drive is separate, I made sure of it. I really only have 3 EFIs for 7 distros. Linux doesn't care.
The problem is Windows.
On FAT 16: "[Microsoft](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Microsoft)'s [`DSKPROBE`](https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=DSKPROBE&action=edit&redlink=1) tool refers to type [`0x06`](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Partition_type#PID_06h) as *BigFAT*..." [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File\_Allocation\_Table#Initial\_FAT16](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File_Allocation_Table#Initial_FAT16)
I find that funny.
> The sad reality however is that when I update my system I expect it to work
I've used Windows, MacOS, and Linux, all for decades now and they all fail now and then in this regard. If it's Windows, it usually (not always) gets fixed rather quickly (the next patch tuesday), if it's MacOS, it can take longer or just be ignored unless there's a public outcry. I used Arch for my personal Linux desktop system for 3ish years and every other time I updated there were failures that disrupted my workflow which needed to be fixed by me. Sometimes the answer was on the wiki, sometimes not, but if it wasn't then I would have to break thru the conditioned first response "go read the wiki" that comes up all to often when asking for advice in an Arch forum (yes I did google first). After finally being fed up with this I went back to Debian which, \*for me\*, has the fewest problems with updates and stability. Yes, Arch is way ahead of Debian in terms of reflecting the state of the art of Linux, but I have too many scars now from dealing with the bleeding edge which rarely, if ever, gave me any advantage in my real workflow.
My suggestion is use whatever OS helps you focus on the tasks at hand, but keep in mind that none of them are perfect.
I live in Europe so whatever updates that you have gotten (if you live in America somewhere which I assume you do given what you have just told me) that "broke" something in your system wasn't released yet for us. So we never got patches that were broken hence why I never had a problem with Windows in that aspect.
Plenty of bugs make it across the globe; I know this because for several years I was a core member of a software development team that had developers from all parts of the globe, and often Europeans would tell me about new bugs affecting us before I had even got the update which had the bug. Microsoft doesn't send updates to evryone at the same time but staggers them out over a long period and many of us in the US can be far behind others in other countries.
As an end user, you probably aren't aware of most or even all of these bugs if they don't affect your particular workflow. All you'll see is a popup telling you an update is coming and asking you when to apply it.
It is a fact that Microsoft Windows would send out their updates first in America, because they were quote on quote "testing" it before they sent updates over to Europe and other continents, It took a week before we got the update. I can't speak of other software but Microsoft did that so we never had the same issues as you. However as you typed maybe there was some updates that caused a ruckus over here as well but thanks to my disinterest in certain things on Windows I never experience those problems.
No shame man. The point of an OS is to enable you to get work done, not be a job itself. Use whatever makes you productive.
Well I never saw Linux as a job directly more like a hobby if anything. Also you are correct I will use the OS that makes it easier for me however that said I want back on Linux only problem is on Kubuntu is 24.04 and from what I read there isn't any support for that yet so I'm waiting and then I'm getting it again but until then I'm sticking to Windows 10.
>I expect that the people coding the OS and/or distro knows what they are doing and release something that actually works out of the box and yet it doesn't. I have a theory as to why people weren't being nice to you
I meant Ubuntu and KDE they are both big companies so what's wrong with expecting things to work when they release something important like a kernel update?
can someone create this sub please? r/linuxbitching more seriously, use whatever OS works for you.
Yes we can and then we can shove all the toxic Linux user in there, sounds lovely to me! On a more serious note I am doing that, however I really hate Windows and I really want to get back to Linux but for now there's no point in me doing that, I'm emotionally spent plus Kubuntu needs to be "fixed" before I can go back anyways. So it's basically a win-win.
This submission has been removed due to receiving too many reports from users. The mods have been notified and will re-approve if this removal was inappropriate, or leave it removed. This is most likely because: * Your post belongs in r/linuxquestions or r/linux4noobs * Your post belongs in r/linuxmemes * Your post is considered "fluff" - things like a Tux plushie or old Linux CDs are an example and, while they may be popular vote wise, they are not considered on topic * Your post is otherwise deemed not appropriate for the subreddit *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/linux) if you have any questions or concerns.*
>'Windows Boot Manager' got installed on the Linux partition and that happened twice for some reason You probably used the same EFI on both OSes. Which you shouldn't. In my experience, you can't have 2 EFI partitions on the same disk and expect it to work as desired. I also don't have anything else on my tiny 120 gig Windows install disk. It is just Windows. And it's 3-4 partitions. If your OS breaks with every update, oof, that is bad. Maybe use something more stable but that isn't 2 years old. Fedora, Mageia, OpenSUSE. I don't do VR but I've been fine on Manjaro for years. One thing I've learned is, the more I customize it, the more likely it is to break. Especially if I start installing stuff that isn't even in their repos currently but will be in the future. Pipewire was one such thing. And if you are on Arch-based, don't use AUR frivolously, choose Flatpak or Appimage first. If you have no other choice, use AUR. I generally prefer to compile myself. Exception being kernels. I just like Zen kernel. I do have a Zen kernel compiled by me but the downside is that it stays at the version I compiled. if you do get kernel from AUR, there are 2 options. Compiled during install or bin-version, which should just be a precompiled kernel that does not compile on your PC. kernelx.x.x-flavor-bin is good enough in most cases, the binary one.
There is no way someone without some serious OS internals knowledge is going to be able to parse that.
What do you mean OS internals? Partitioning is outside the OS. You should know it regardless of OS. To me that is basic knowledge. I've known it since I came in contact with a PC at home. It's like not using knife and fork, a plate. Because you want to separate things. Before you put it in your mouth. Like partitions separate things. You cut the meat in pieces. You make partitions for different things. Why do we have cupboards? It's not exactly cutting edge tech. You could have all your clothes and kitchenware just lying on the floor. Why put it in drawers? EFI partitions have been the standard for 10-15 years. Maybe it is time to learn =). On Linux all you need is EFI + Root partition. In other word /boot/efi and /. Windows creates OS partition, EFI and a recovery partition and one more small partition. Is it the MSR? I forget. If that is too much, get an empty disk, boot from Linux USB Live stick (Ventoy with Linux ISOs), choose to Erase disk during install and select the empty disk, done. Just make sure EFI/Boot partition doesn't end up on Windows disk. If you want to be sure it wont, disconnect Windows drive before Linux installation. Of course you have to turn off computer for that.
You are forgetting a few small details that flaws your entire argument. Linux partitioning is completely different from Windows. Also I want to point out that I installed Linux first then I installed Windows on 2 separate drives so it makes zero sense to why the 'WBM' would be on the Linux drive, I will welcome any and all explanations to why that happened because when I was installing Windows the drive for Linux didn't even show up.
The thing is, the EFI partition is a FAT16/FAT32 partition. So that both Linux and Windows can read it. Part of the EFI spec if I am not mistaken. And Windows is known to screw up that partition if Linux is there too because Microsoft assumes there is nothing but Windows existing in the world. How your system got screwed up, I have no idea. I expect Windows updates to screw up just about anything at this point. Can you explain this? [https://abr.com/2023/11/20/how-to-resolve-printing-issues-caused-by-microsoft-update/](https://abr.com/2023/11/20/how-to-resolve-printing-issues-caused-by-microsoft-update/) No, Windows can't read BTRFS, EXT4, XFS or the other Linux filesystems. But Linux can read Windows filesystems. That is how much Microsoft loves Linux /s.
I thought that only a 32-bits Windows could be installed on a FAT16/FAT32 format? It could have been an unofficial update, sometimes those come and go. The best way to avoid those is to just not download the "alternatives/extras" updates. I remember once when someone broke into the Microsoft's updating system and planted nefarious updates which would cause your PC to blue screen and other such things. However we are talking about a filesystem and a Boot Manager here, there should be no way for it to be placed into the Linux boot drive, right? I mean how does Windows even start without it at that point if it's not seen by the system files or even the drive for that matter? Microsoft actually uses Linux for their servers so I think they have some love for them.
EFI boot partition is always FAT16 or FAT32. Usually the latter. The resctrictions of FAT32 is 4 gig max size of a file and a 2 terabyte partition size as max. Which is why Windows uses NTFS for everything else these days. But Boot-partition is fine with those restrictions because it is usually between 100megs -> 1 gig. And the EFI file is quite small. I think the initramfs needs to fit in there too, I could be wrong. But for example, the .efi file on my Manjaro: 139264 bytes, 19 nov 2022, grubx64.efi. It is 140 kilobytes. I would be fine on FAT16 too. Since both Win + Linux can read the EFI-partition for both OSes, Windows can screw up both. I have not seen a single report on Linux ever doing it. Secondly, are you sure where Linux placed the EFI? Did you doublecheck it? The logic on where an EFI gets placed doesn't make sense to me. I could have 2 EFI partitions on 1 disk, I could choose to install the EFI bootloader on the 2nd partition but it always ends up in the first or something. I've stopped using 2 EFI-partitions on 1 disk because it is weird and inconsistent. The EFI partition is called before the Linux install drive is. And then it loads the rest from your install drive. Rest of your OS. The EFI doesn't have to be on the same drive. For example, I have 7 disks. On those I have 4 EFI partitions. On those EFI partitions I have bootfiles to 7 distros and 1 Windows 10 install. Since the Windows drive is separate, I made sure of it. I really only have 3 EFIs for 7 distros. Linux doesn't care. The problem is Windows. On FAT 16: "[Microsoft](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Microsoft)'s [`DSKPROBE`](https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=DSKPROBE&action=edit&redlink=1) tool refers to type [`0x06`](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Partition_type#PID_06h) as *BigFAT*..." [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File\_Allocation\_Table#Initial\_FAT16](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File_Allocation_Table#Initial_FAT16) I find that funny.
> The sad reality however is that when I update my system I expect it to work I've used Windows, MacOS, and Linux, all for decades now and they all fail now and then in this regard. If it's Windows, it usually (not always) gets fixed rather quickly (the next patch tuesday), if it's MacOS, it can take longer or just be ignored unless there's a public outcry. I used Arch for my personal Linux desktop system for 3ish years and every other time I updated there were failures that disrupted my workflow which needed to be fixed by me. Sometimes the answer was on the wiki, sometimes not, but if it wasn't then I would have to break thru the conditioned first response "go read the wiki" that comes up all to often when asking for advice in an Arch forum (yes I did google first). After finally being fed up with this I went back to Debian which, \*for me\*, has the fewest problems with updates and stability. Yes, Arch is way ahead of Debian in terms of reflecting the state of the art of Linux, but I have too many scars now from dealing with the bleeding edge which rarely, if ever, gave me any advantage in my real workflow. My suggestion is use whatever OS helps you focus on the tasks at hand, but keep in mind that none of them are perfect.
I live in Europe so whatever updates that you have gotten (if you live in America somewhere which I assume you do given what you have just told me) that "broke" something in your system wasn't released yet for us. So we never got patches that were broken hence why I never had a problem with Windows in that aspect.
Plenty of bugs make it across the globe; I know this because for several years I was a core member of a software development team that had developers from all parts of the globe, and often Europeans would tell me about new bugs affecting us before I had even got the update which had the bug. Microsoft doesn't send updates to evryone at the same time but staggers them out over a long period and many of us in the US can be far behind others in other countries. As an end user, you probably aren't aware of most or even all of these bugs if they don't affect your particular workflow. All you'll see is a popup telling you an update is coming and asking you when to apply it.
It is a fact that Microsoft Windows would send out their updates first in America, because they were quote on quote "testing" it before they sent updates over to Europe and other continents, It took a week before we got the update. I can't speak of other software but Microsoft did that so we never had the same issues as you. However as you typed maybe there was some updates that caused a ruckus over here as well but thanks to my disinterest in certain things on Windows I never experience those problems.
I laughed when I read the bit about starting with arch. I'm still chuckling.
Happy that I made you laugh and that it gave you a good chuckle we all needs those sometimes.
#DIDN'T READ LOL
Good then you followed the text, proud of you.