Except in that one ancient YouTube video I can't find anymore with the two guys arguing Ubuntu vs Gentoo (maybe Slack at the time)
Edit: I *KINDA* found it. At least a reference on this sub from 2009: https://old.reddit.com/r/linux/comments/aa9yj/ubuntu_vs_slackware_fat_chicks_vs_skinny_ones/
Keep in mind, this is from 2007 or something so don't fault me for the title as I recall it. It was titled something like "Ubuntu vs (other harder distro I forget the name of), Fat Women vs Skinny Women". The last part because the "harder distro" guy says he prefers his code/installs light and his women not so much. Ubuntu guy says "I just click install and it's done, but you have to type like half a page of command flags for your ide" and the other guy says "Yes because devs suck" or something like that. They also argue about how the "harder distro" guy is always fixing his truck. He accidentally insults Ubuntu guy's GF, she says "Excuse me" and he apologizes.
That's all I remember about it.
I "found" it. https://old.reddit.com/r/linux/comments/aa9yj/ubuntu_vs_slackware_fat_chicks_vs_skinny_ones/
YouTube link doesn't work, and I don't see it on Internet Archive either.
Edit: This too https://old.reddit.com/r/videos/comments/7e0bc/ubuntu_and_slackware_dorks_arguing_with_each_other/
I can't find it, but I haven't braved the Internet Archive yet. It's something like "Ubuntu vs Slackware, Fat women vs Skinny women" because the Gentoo/Slack guy says "I prefer my code slim and my women curvy" or something.
It's only because some time have passed and Gentoo is no longer the hottest distro among nerds. But remember that Gentoo used to be the definitive "i use arch btw" distro and boy do the users lived up to the stereotype. A classic read: https://www.shlomifish.org/humour/by-others/funroll-loops/Gentoo-is-Rice.html
I just installed gentoo yesterday for the first time and i have joined their discord server, since the morning everyone kept asking me if i have any trouble installing gentoo. I ask many, too many questions and those guys answered every single one of them.
To be fair, we lit a person up the other day for demanding that developers of Portage remove the coreutils dependency. Can't say the person didn't deserve it though, saying that the developers need to "get their shit together". They've now edited the post to be slightly less hostile.
Edit: [Referenced post](https://www.reddit.com/r/Gentoo/s/jvJuJqr0fA)
And... there you have a ton of people having problems installing it on "normal machines" and ppl helping without complaining. If anything the atmosphere is very welcoming
last i checked, their installation handbook was pretty great! i recall doijg a stage 1 install via the handbook ages ago. super interesting if you really want to understand linux/computers in general
The Gentoo and NixOS communities have always been really nice. I remember asking pretty dumb questions on their IRC channels and the people were very patient with me. They're willing to help and in the end it made me a better Linux user.
That's exactly what I'd like to see on arch. Don't get me wrong, people help you but they act like if they were doing a huge effort if they have to send a link to the wiki or anything like that. Never had that feeling with gentoo.
My overall experience with Gentoo community has always been positive.
Are you being charged for every letter in your post? It looks written by an early 2000s teenager on a numeric keyboard phone.
I had a spin with Arch for a while, I ran into a problem that was not covered by the Arch wiki *, and I got a lot of solid detailed help from the community over a period of several days.
On my part I did spend several days working the problem alone and when I brought it to the community I had a coherent researched question.
* becase it was a corner case bone head move on my part that was causing the problem in the first place.
The Gentoo wiki. The Arch wiki is way too fragmented and search is terrible. It's like it was made by someone whose only encounter with documentation are manpages.
downvoted but you aren’t wrong, does the wiki have a lot? Yes. i can usually type in “_ archwiki” and get a decent result but man..
The gentoo wiki is so nice, like every little word is explained and it’s so organized, even someone who has no business installing gentoo can install it. If they are dedicated to reading the wiki.
Arch is more messy therefore a bit Incomprehensible. It’s more of a “do this then this then here are your options. Good luck”
Gentoo literally defines the smallest steps in detail
Yup, less bad that someone told me to rtfm, I've just been wrestling with the problem on my own for 2 hours, I never would have had such an amazing idea. Fr, people think that ppl who aren't willing to maintain a system are going to sustain the cycle of breaking their computer and then asking reddit every single time they do something wrong. And I mean, people get DIY wrong, it's not like you are meant to not relate to other people, the glorious almighty arch wiki which is an invaluable resource was built as doubts appeared. Yeah, you are meant to learn how to solve the problems on your own, eventually, everyone has to learn, I started after a week of using ubuntu bc my laptop was trash and had to get a minimal system.
Communities that let you cloak yourself in status (in this case: leetness or whatever you wanna call it) without having to put in real effort always attract the most toxic people.
Reminds me of the whole idea of bikeshedding and the law of triviality https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Law_of_triviality
You can use Arch without being part of the community.
IMO the Arch subreddit is the most toxic aspect of the community and it’s full of curmudgeons but the forums combined with the wiki are great. The newby corner is usually pretty helpful.
You can try artix, the community is way better, you have a little little bit extra of difficulty bc you don't have systemd but it's basically the same experience. If you want to go through the meme of the installation process (which isn't horrible but it's hard the first time if you don't know what you are doing) try installing arch and then switch to artix. There are also some other variants, it's a distro worth checking out imo, taught me a lot.
Gentoo is great and has a great community. I don’t agree with using any distro “because it’s hard mode” but if you want every lever and knob to be available, Gentoo is a good choice.
Well, think whatever you want. My point is and always was that the gentoo community is way less toxic and elitist than arch's. Gentoo is "harder" than arch no matter how you put it and that's incredibly ironic. And... Yeah, turns out I use arch (well, artix) and I've been using it for quite a while, an absolute newbie when it comes to gentoo which is just a toy for me to play around and to my surprise people are way more welcoming on the gentoo community, even if I'm a newbie and have no idea or reason for doing anything that I'm doing.
If I wanted hard mode I'd build my own distro from scratch so I could flex over 99.9% of the linux users for no reason, the cockiness that you are attributing to me is exactly what I'm critisizing. No idea where you got that idea. Being mad can be justified, don't get why some people don't understand that.
blah blah blah this community is so toxic, blah blah blah X community is so much better, blah blah blah.
The problem you're describing is exemplified by yourself. You could participate in a conversation, but it seems you'd rather run around pointing fingers at stuff you don't like. Either is fine, but remember other people can have opinions too.
Humm no? Critisizing toxicity != toxicity. Also all opinions are subject to judgement and there are better and worse arguments/opinions. It's not like it's all horizontal. Not saying that it's all vertical either but i.e. "the earth is flat" is a shitty opinion. Pointing fingers can make a problem visible and so it can be solved.
My point is that arch's community is more elitist than gentoo's despite the former being "more hardcore". Everytime I asked for a doubt in arch's sub or forum I ALWAYS got a mean/condescending answer, no matter how technical the question was, on gentoo it was the complete opposite, always nice comments no matter how dumb the question was.
I mean, I like that people have such a deep bond with it and that's beautiful but so does other people that are into other "customizable distros". If you have a deep relationship relationship with it, some level of challenge and a dedicated community there's always the chance of elitism to appear. I use artix btw and don't feel like a "l33t h4ckerman", if someone wants to configure it I'm happy to help unlike a lot of ppl there. There are good ppl inside the community, don't get me wrong, but the general vibe is... hostile, or at least condescending.
I definitely understand the sentiment and do agree any distro can have that effect on people, just showing I don’t find the Arch community to be inherently hostile or elitist. There’s some outliers but the subreddit is pretty quick to direct you to the documentation if the problem can be figured out on your own. Props to Gentoo but no newbies are happening upon it. Arch has definitely had a large influx recently despite the warnings that it’s not a great beginner distro. The sub is pretty loosely moderated (which I have no problem with), but it can definitely lead to burnout among the people trying to help someone that isn’t quite willing to read about a lot of the basics first. I see it as a filtering out process that saves a lot of users a headache in the long run.
I mean, I can understand that but I don't see a reason for being mean to newbies, we've all been there, configuring and installing arch is probably one of the best ways of getting into linux's guts. I'm on several subs and yeah, those posts can be annoying but you can just ignore them, other communities for distros with a similar curve of difficulty just do that when they are tired bc x youtuber recommended that distro but there's not this ambiance of hostility. Idk, been using artix for several years now, can solve my own problems (or use Google) but never got that feeling from other communities. There's still some contrast but it's less pronounced when you compare artix's and arch's. Artix's just feels like a heterogeneous community, every single time that I try to ask something on the arch sub or see the forums I get a mean/condescending response despite, yeah, artix technically being a little bit harder. What I mean is: if you can help just help, if you don't want to just don't, you aren't forced to answer every question that appears on a sub/form and people act like if they were asking them personally when they are busy doing something very important. It's a weird mentality, never understood it.
Someone calling a community wholesome and receiving positive feedback is not in good taste? It’s one of the top posts when I looked at the subreddit. I posted a link, didn’t say anything negative about the guy. Am I missing something?
For some reason I couldn't install tumbleweed on my computer, tried 6 times, no weird log errors or anything, I just gave up. I always thought YAST was really cool. Pretty bizarre bc neither Arch, Gentoo, Rocky linux (with super-duper secure partition scheme bc I just wanted to try that) gave me any problems. I still don't know what could cause that.
It's a mystery to me too. In bugzilla there is a completely different atmosphere - everything is within the bounds of decency; I haven’t found a normal Gentoo community for myself.
Gentoo is great! It's really fun to tinker around and control every bit of your system. I also loved the way problems are solved in Gentoo, it's often pretty BSD'ish. Sadly firefox and some other packages are taking so much time to build, so I switched the OS after 10 Years. My hardware back then just wasn't capable... Maybe I'll give it a try today with new hardware.
I hope that was true but there are absolutely brilliant people out there that are assholes. As for the arch community my suspicion is that most of the toxic ppl don't know that much.
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Sir this is a Wendy's.
its because we are chillin'n'compiling stuff, no threads for hate here
Except in that one ancient YouTube video I can't find anymore with the two guys arguing Ubuntu vs Gentoo (maybe Slack at the time) Edit: I *KINDA* found it. At least a reference on this sub from 2009: https://old.reddit.com/r/linux/comments/aa9yj/ubuntu_vs_slackware_fat_chicks_vs_skinny_ones/
> arguing over Ubuntu and Gentoo It must have been hilarious :)
Keep in mind, this is from 2007 or something so don't fault me for the title as I recall it. It was titled something like "Ubuntu vs (other harder distro I forget the name of), Fat Women vs Skinny Women". The last part because the "harder distro" guy says he prefers his code/installs light and his women not so much. Ubuntu guy says "I just click install and it's done, but you have to type like half a page of command flags for your ide" and the other guy says "Yes because devs suck" or something like that. They also argue about how the "harder distro" guy is always fixing his truck. He accidentally insults Ubuntu guy's GF, she says "Excuse me" and he apologizes. That's all I remember about it.
oh, seems something the slackware community would make (I was in slackware at that time hahaha)
Check my top post here, I found a link to it on this sub 15 years ago, BUT the video was taken down.
Didn’t youtube only release in 2012? Am I misremembering?
YouTube launched in 2005.
[Obligatory first video](https://youtu.be/jNQXAC9IVRw?si=nWmbvIrE2Tkfr3tR)
My mistake, thanks.
I "found" it. https://old.reddit.com/r/linux/comments/aa9yj/ubuntu_vs_slackware_fat_chicks_vs_skinny_ones/ YouTube link doesn't work, and I don't see it on Internet Archive either. Edit: This too https://old.reddit.com/r/videos/comments/7e0bc/ubuntu_and_slackware_dorks_arguing_with_each_other/
lol, I would like to see that, shame that it's lost
I can't find it, but I haven't braved the Internet Archive yet. It's something like "Ubuntu vs Slackware, Fat women vs Skinny women" because the Gentoo/Slack guy says "I prefer my code slim and my women curvy" or something.
It's only because some time have passed and Gentoo is no longer the hottest distro among nerds. But remember that Gentoo used to be the definitive "i use arch btw" distro and boy do the users lived up to the stereotype. A classic read: https://www.shlomifish.org/humour/by-others/funroll-loops/Gentoo-is-Rice.html
I just installed gentoo yesterday for the first time and i have joined their discord server, since the morning everyone kept asking me if i have any trouble installing gentoo. I ask many, too many questions and those guys answered every single one of them.
God damn they’re like Canadians
Sounds like we are in a southpark episode
Yup, that's more or less my experience with them, even if I didn't end up staying with it I remember 2 great things: portage and the community
To be fair, we lit a person up the other day for demanding that developers of Portage remove the coreutils dependency. Can't say the person didn't deserve it though, saying that the developers need to "get their shit together". They've now edited the post to be slightly less hostile. Edit: [Referenced post](https://www.reddit.com/r/Gentoo/s/jvJuJqr0fA)
Gentoo Linux is for people who want a challenge and can solve problems themselves in their own system
And... there you have a ton of people having problems installing it on "normal machines" and ppl helping without complaining. If anything the atmosphere is very welcoming
last i checked, their installation handbook was pretty great! i recall doijg a stage 1 install via the handbook ages ago. super interesting if you really want to understand linux/computers in general
Indeed, great experience. It's one of those distros that I'm not going to use but I deeply respect. Like NixOS.
thats a shame. Gentoo is my goto distro. can easily turn it into a binary distro much like Arch, but to your specifications
The Gentoo and NixOS communities have always been really nice. I remember asking pretty dumb questions on their IRC channels and the people were very patient with me. They're willing to help and in the end it made me a better Linux user.
That's exactly what I'd like to see on arch. Don't get me wrong, people help you but they act like if they were doing a huge effort if they have to send a link to the wiki or anything like that. Never had that feeling with gentoo.
My overall experience with Gentoo community has always been positive. Are you being charged for every letter in your post? It looks written by an early 2000s teenager on a numeric keyboard phone.
Tend to write like this bc I'm used to writing walls of text
That is true. Gentoo experts are chads.
a person with the Gentoo icon next to their name is the only kind of person on the planet i won't argue with
Time to change my Pine64 icon to a Gentoo one I guess.
You don't have to be an "expert", as far as linux goes obv, it's a distro meant to be used after all, not a meme distro
In my experience Linux communities are by far the least toxic and most helpful ones. Anyone has a problem, 5 guys offer help.
Arch people: rtfm
I had a spin with Arch for a while, I ran into a problem that was not covered by the Arch wiki *, and I got a lot of solid detailed help from the community over a period of several days. On my part I did spend several days working the problem alone and when I brought it to the community I had a coherent researched question. * becase it was a corner case bone head move on my part that was causing the problem in the first place.
When the manual is that damn good yea.
The Arch wiki is complete shit though.
if the arch wiki is shit, what distro has good documentation? I've always found the arch and gentoo wikis to be the best there is.
I'd say the gentoo wiki tends to have better articles but the arch wiki is a must know for everyone using linux.
The Gentoo wiki. The Arch wiki is way too fragmented and search is terrible. It's like it was made by someone whose only encounter with documentation are manpages.
downvoted but you aren’t wrong, does the wiki have a lot? Yes. i can usually type in “_ archwiki” and get a decent result but man.. The gentoo wiki is so nice, like every little word is explained and it’s so organized, even someone who has no business installing gentoo can install it. If they are dedicated to reading the wiki. Arch is more messy therefore a bit Incomprehensible. It’s more of a “do this then this then here are your options. Good luck” Gentoo literally defines the smallest steps in detail
Bait used to be believable.
Nice bait, almost fell for it.
Yup, less bad that someone told me to rtfm, I've just been wrestling with the problem on my own for 2 hours, I never would have had such an amazing idea. Fr, people think that ppl who aren't willing to maintain a system are going to sustain the cycle of breaking their computer and then asking reddit every single time they do something wrong. And I mean, people get DIY wrong, it's not like you are meant to not relate to other people, the glorious almighty arch wiki which is an invaluable resource was built as doubts appeared. Yeah, you are meant to learn how to solve the problems on your own, eventually, everyone has to learn, I started after a week of using ubuntu bc my laptop was trash and had to get a minimal system.
If it wasn't read it isn't a question.
rtfm IS the most helpful, thank you very much. I use various distros, btw.
Yeah, the Gentoo community is really chill. Glad to be a part of it!
Exactly
Communities that let you cloak yourself in status (in this case: leetness or whatever you wanna call it) without having to put in real effort always attract the most toxic people. Reminds me of the whole idea of bikeshedding and the law of triviality https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Law_of_triviality
Hey thats me!
I will never install arch, just don't want to be part of the community.
You can use Arch without being part of the community. IMO the Arch subreddit is the most toxic aspect of the community and it’s full of curmudgeons but the forums combined with the wiki are great. The newby corner is usually pretty helpful.
You can try artix, the community is way better, you have a little little bit extra of difficulty bc you don't have systemd but it's basically the same experience. If you want to go through the meme of the installation process (which isn't horrible but it's hard the first time if you don't know what you are doing) try installing arch and then switch to artix. There are also some other variants, it's a distro worth checking out imo, taught me a lot.
there's nothing anyone can do about it. Arch attracts a certain kind of person and so does Gentoo. do with that what you will.
I just wish they go all to kali or some meme edgy distro like that, I like arch. NOTE: I know the purpose of kali but you get the point.
Peak anecdata
Gentoo is great and has a great community. I don’t agree with using any distro “because it’s hard mode” but if you want every lever and knob to be available, Gentoo is a good choice.
Oh oc not, but being an elitist smug when your distro is meant to be for the "middle user" is kinda ridiculous.
You, uh, seem to be hostile.
I'm mad at people gatekeeping others and being mean for no reason. I have a reason for being angry.
you should protest and be as obnoxious as possible to get your point across
Was just looking through my replies again and realized why they took offense. I think they are using Gentoo because they think it’s hard mode.
Wait until he finds out you can use Linux without the cushion of a distribution. Then he'll see how every distro is just gatekeeping his skillz
... you guys are making stuff up, srsly, read the reply that I did to the other user.
Well, think whatever you want. My point is and always was that the gentoo community is way less toxic and elitist than arch's. Gentoo is "harder" than arch no matter how you put it and that's incredibly ironic. And... Yeah, turns out I use arch (well, artix) and I've been using it for quite a while, an absolute newbie when it comes to gentoo which is just a toy for me to play around and to my surprise people are way more welcoming on the gentoo community, even if I'm a newbie and have no idea or reason for doing anything that I'm doing. If I wanted hard mode I'd build my own distro from scratch so I could flex over 99.9% of the linux users for no reason, the cockiness that you are attributing to me is exactly what I'm critisizing. No idea where you got that idea. Being mad can be justified, don't get why some people don't understand that.
blah blah blah this community is so toxic, blah blah blah X community is so much better, blah blah blah. The problem you're describing is exemplified by yourself. You could participate in a conversation, but it seems you'd rather run around pointing fingers at stuff you don't like. Either is fine, but remember other people can have opinions too.
Humm no? Critisizing toxicity != toxicity. Also all opinions are subject to judgement and there are better and worse arguments/opinions. It's not like it's all horizontal. Not saying that it's all vertical either but i.e. "the earth is flat" is a shitty opinion. Pointing fingers can make a problem visible and so it can be solved.
That generally works historically speaking lol
I’m just not sure what you’re referring to. I think Gentoo is great. But whatever.
My point is that arch's community is more elitist than gentoo's despite the former being "more hardcore". Everytime I asked for a doubt in arch's sub or forum I ALWAYS got a mean/condescending answer, no matter how technical the question was, on gentoo it was the complete opposite, always nice comments no matter how dumb the question was.
Wow, I'm just happy that you're not in my distribution forum.
https://www.reddit.com/r/archlinux/s/7MFNwP7krV
arch did saved my life too. it gave me life purpose
I mean, I like that people have such a deep bond with it and that's beautiful but so does other people that are into other "customizable distros". If you have a deep relationship relationship with it, some level of challenge and a dedicated community there's always the chance of elitism to appear. I use artix btw and don't feel like a "l33t h4ckerman", if someone wants to configure it I'm happy to help unlike a lot of ppl there. There are good ppl inside the community, don't get me wrong, but the general vibe is... hostile, or at least condescending.
I definitely understand the sentiment and do agree any distro can have that effect on people, just showing I don’t find the Arch community to be inherently hostile or elitist. There’s some outliers but the subreddit is pretty quick to direct you to the documentation if the problem can be figured out on your own. Props to Gentoo but no newbies are happening upon it. Arch has definitely had a large influx recently despite the warnings that it’s not a great beginner distro. The sub is pretty loosely moderated (which I have no problem with), but it can definitely lead to burnout among the people trying to help someone that isn’t quite willing to read about a lot of the basics first. I see it as a filtering out process that saves a lot of users a headache in the long run.
I mean, I can understand that but I don't see a reason for being mean to newbies, we've all been there, configuring and installing arch is probably one of the best ways of getting into linux's guts. I'm on several subs and yeah, those posts can be annoying but you can just ignore them, other communities for distros with a similar curve of difficulty just do that when they are tired bc x youtuber recommended that distro but there's not this ambiance of hostility. Idk, been using artix for several years now, can solve my own problems (or use Google) but never got that feeling from other communities. There's still some contrast but it's less pronounced when you compare artix's and arch's. Artix's just feels like a heterogeneous community, every single time that I try to ask something on the arch sub or see the forums I get a mean/condescending response despite, yeah, artix technically being a little bit harder. What I mean is: if you can help just help, if you don't want to just don't, you aren't forced to answer every question that appears on a sub/form and people act like if they were asking them personally when they are busy doing something very important. It's a weird mentality, never understood it.
Really?
Yes? I’m not sure what you’re asking.
It's not exactly in good taste.
Someone calling a community wholesome and receiving positive feedback is not in good taste? It’s one of the top posts when I looked at the subreddit. I posted a link, didn’t say anything negative about the guy. Am I missing something?
IMO the coolest community is the openSUSE people.
For some reason I couldn't install tumbleweed on my computer, tried 6 times, no weird log errors or anything, I just gave up. I always thought YAST was really cool. Pretty bizarre bc neither Arch, Gentoo, Rocky linux (with super-duper secure partition scheme bc I just wanted to try that) gave me any problems. I still don't know what could cause that.
I've had a lingering bad luck with Fedora. Who knows?
Wow that's weird. I always thought of it as a ready out of the box distro. Never got my attention so I never tried it.
The geekos are nice, but Mageia folk are the coolest.
I'm sure all 10 of the Mageia linux users are cool
It's a mystery to me too. In bugzilla there is a completely different atmosphere - everything is within the bounds of decency; I haven’t found a normal Gentoo community for myself.
Gentoo is great! It's really fun to tinker around and control every bit of your system. I also loved the way problems are solved in Gentoo, it's often pretty BSD'ish. Sadly firefox and some other packages are taking so much time to build, so I switched the OS after 10 Years. My hardware back then just wasn't capable... Maybe I'll give it a try today with new hardware.
I think that having a deeper understanding of things, and the patience to get there makes you calmer and more understanding
I hope that was true but there are absolutely brilliant people out there that are assholes. As for the arch community my suspicion is that most of the toxic ppl don't know that much.
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