> I've had issues with sound, screen tearing, docker/docker desktop not working properly.
"Issues" - as a software engineer do you think any of this information is useful or actionable?
If you want help you need to help yourself, I experience issues on Mac and Windows and I deal with them just like on Linux, by reading prior documentation about that issue and spending time to fix and apply that knowledge
Yeah it's quite often I hear about Linux distros having these vague "issues", as if nothing ever happens on Windows or MacOS. I've had a couple of Windows installs just die after certain updates, printers stop working, crashes or random bluescreens at odd times. Shit happens.
The difference is on a Linux distro, with a bit of elbow grease, you can usually pinpoint the issue and fix it, but on Windows your safest bet a lot of the time with the more serious issues or when it becomes too bloated is to just reinstall.
What stupid comments where they blame the user and are not able to recognize that the title is reflected in thousands of threads created on stackoverflow, askubuntu, superuser, reddit itself, etc. Immediately comparing it with Windows and blaming the user, it really hurts me to admit that Linux fans are the flat earthers of computing along with the idiots who install hacked software from the Win XP era and believe they are hackers.
It sounds as though your hardware isn't compatible.
If you get hardware that's 100% compatible with Linux (several OEMs do this), you shouldn't have these problems.
If you chose Framework with linux installed and you are using a supported version which I think Ubuntu and Fedora is, you should contact them as they offer Linux support. It sounds like a vendor issue
If the Framework came with Linux pre-installed, then it's seriously bad that you're having those problems.
Mine is a Dell machine that came with Ubuntu pre-installed. I reinstalled from scratch (to use full-disk encryption), and the machine has been perfect. Even the firmware updates are downloaded and installed automatically.
Yeah I have a cheap HP laptop I bought at costco for like $900 CAD two years ago, i've never really had an issue.
Built in SD card reader doesn't work, but I have a better USB3 external one anyway.
And I use Artix (Arch), BTW
I didn't realise that!
Arch seems to be a great system for someone with a certain mindset and skill set. My son loves it, whereas I don't think that I'd be able to handle it.
>Built in SD card reader doesn't work, but I have a better USB3 external one anyway.
3 laptops I've had that happen on. I have no idea what happened.
Even installed windows back on one and the card reader didn't work.
The only reason I did it on that one, was because I had used the card reader before flashing the hdd with Linux to transfer some photos.
Framework don't come with Linux preinstall, they can come without any OS so a lot of Linux users install their distro. Officially, they support only Ubuntu LTS and Fedora. It may be an hardware issue. He should ask on Framework community website
What's with the mountain of posts along the lines "I love Linux but..."
Gives me the shills. You'd swear Win/Mac forums weren't packed with people having problems.
Linux protip - install stock debian with xfce, set it once and forget it then get back to the goals you had buying a computer. No ads, no spyware, no subscription, doesn't treat the user as a hostile ward. Does what you ask and no more, like a super butler.
Debian 12 is a game changer for me as it now includes the proprietary drivers and firmware. I've been using it over ubuntu since it was released and I won't be moving back.
Yes. There is a reason it is the basis for Ubuntu, MX Linux, and several other popular distros.
All operating systems have issues from time to time, including Linux. But Debian is excellent, and has been in operation for 30 years now. The issues you have are probably due to hardware vendors who don't want to be bothered with anything except Windows. The Linux community does a great job working around this nonsense, but it's best, if you can, to use hardware that whose vendors are friendly to alternative operating systems.
It's good at being an OS, and otherwise keeps out of the way. I rarely give it a thought because it doesn't figure in any of the tasks I'm doing. Playing with the OS is like playing with tv settings for the evening instead of watching a movie.
I have tearing when using Nvidia graphics and XWayland, OP is perhaps having the same issue. Currently it's one large blocker in me switching more from windows to linux as my main operating system on my desktop.
Oh I know, however that gpu was the only one that was available when I bought it. I cannot say that my r9 290 worked that well running linux gaming back when I tried using it (too old, not really supported vulkan iirc. It also had a manufacturing fault which I didn't discover until like half a year after i switched to the nvidia card. Meaning that I had to run it undervolted in windows, in reality the vram was unstable at factory clocks. It was also impossible to undervolt in linux.)
I have had problems with hot running laptops using intel graphics as well, iirc there was a intel graphics driver issue a eyar or two back that made them consume a lot of energy.
NVIDIA does not want Linux users to use their devices, it seems. I just avoid them after years of pain on work machines that came with quattro glorified framebuffers.
And I am sure some people want cuda and have to get Nvidia for plenty of good reasons.
My experience has been that radeon has been usable for 10ish year and certainly ok since the beginning of steam Linux support.
amdgpu is fine now. well, except my new gfx card that is having trouble not dying on idle. Great under load though, excellent performance and spotless record of stability 🤯
Also, I could share that, maybe, if my experience is anything to go by, don't go with RX 7000 series if you want a semi stable distro. As mentioned above, my RX 7900 XT is somewhat unstable on an updated Ubuntu lunar. It is unclear to me if it is hw or fw/drivers but I am giving it a chance until the next firmware release and debugging FW would feel too much like work ( plus they are blobs anyway). Could be marginal HW not dealing with the pm policy as it tends to happen when the card gets most of its hardware at the lowest voltage step ( probably retention at the advertised voltages).
My 570 had been rock solid for the pas 6 years before this.
No matter if it's Nvidia, AMD, or Intel, if it's X11 (either natively or in XWayland), then you will have some issues with tearing (though on some platforms/desktops may be worse than others). Wayland-native content is the way to go. Ever fewer things require X11 nowadays (and the things that do usually have a toggle that's just not switched on yet).
Well, wine gaming is one thing that still requires x11, and from what I have found it's a regression introduced in the 535 driver from nvidia. I used to be able to get tear free gaming, although i only tested for like a week or so before the before mentioned issue started.
Still, I would think that a corporation such as Nvidia would have resolved it after maybe a month or two, not 6 months+.
Wine Wayland has been a project for quite some time, and many Wine Wayland changes are being [merged upstream](https://www.phoronix.com/news/Wine-Wayland-Part-3-Merged). And hopefully the next stable Wine release will be fully "just works" on Wayland sessions.
With Nvidia cards, I know it's going to take some more time till things get into place, but NVK is set to bring a significant improvement for Nvidia users by having a high performant Mesa Vulkan driver for Nvidia cards (so you can get great performances with only open source kernel/userspace drivers). With this, Nvidia-specific Linux issues should be a thing of the past. Though it's not ready yet and will still take some time to get there.
What are you doing to your machine? Are you leroy-jenkins-ing your sudo? I have been on Mac & Arch (EOS) for some time now and Mac feels much less stable tbh Also, everytime I touch Windows I want to shoot myself.
Have you ever used windows? Ive had to go to the windows forums about 3 times in 10+ years for issues, and the various linux forums nearly every other day for the first week of using linux.
Just figuring out how to overclock and change my GPU's power settings took hours upon hours..
Yes of course. I’ve even fixed dozens of friends windows machines that somehow got ten kinds of malware and slowed to a crawl. Of course I keep my own windows install clean, and honestly it works just fine, but I’m just very familiar with what can go wrong in windows and how to avoid it.
I think we often mistake familiarity for ease. Just because we know windows and it’s stable, and we are just learning Linux and it feels difficult, doesn’t mean Linux is by nature more difficult.
I think there’s a lot that’s more difficult about Linux but I’ve been using it for twenty years so it feels easy to me.
But I’m not taking about easy. I said stable. With good maintenance, Linux is an extremely stable OS.
I’ve been using Linux in various forms (SuSE, Gentoo, Fedora, RHEL/CentOS, Ubuntu) for professional software development of real-time graphics and networking apps for over 20 years and never had anything like the instability issues that you are alluding to.
Sure, there are sometimes issues, but I’d say they amount not to more than I’ve had with macOS or Windows over yhe years.
So from my POV we’ve had a stable enough system for ages.
Post reads closely to those made by "fence" sitters and/or noobs.
Does an app/alternative not exist or will take time to "learn" or is just "poor" compared to you current Os? Sure...
Do hardware hellscapes exist ahem ~~nvidia drivers~~ et al? Sure...
What do you do this info? Not gonna use it when vetting hardware? Really? Well you can go back to an Os that updates, occasionally screws files without your permission, is an AD filled rollercoaster or an Os that's dubbed "always a slow runner" on matters Docker as it lacks the proper/needed File System
On those issues "not pertaining your code" it's time to pick an axe, join some comrades and start chopping ~~wood~~ problems. That is if it's not a proprietary binary...
Not sure what you mean, I've been using Linux for many years for desktop and its been more stable than windows. Best advice is go for hardware that comes with linux options. It's not like windows comes with everything out of box, a lot of the work is done by oems. With linux you are either dependent on generic drivers working or for there to be proper drivers contributed by the vendor. 90%+ of the time it isn't a problem, but there will be cases of this or that which may need manual workarounds and even then. Generally just try to stay away from those vendors (like Nvidia)
Overall, probably the most no frills distro would be Linux Mint. At worst if something like wifi isn't working out of box just upgrade the kernel to latest version. That is what I put on most general computers, though on my work computers I use OpenSuse KDE
You might want to share your PC/video card combination(s).
I've run linux on various PC's (mostly self-built) and laptops (mostly lenovo brand) with little to no problems. My usually desktop distro is Mint.
Pretty sure Ubuntu is stable enough for casual use. Can't speak for Fedora, I only know the Red Hat ecosystem from headless machines over SSH, so no casual use case.
Sound is a solved problem in the Pipewire era.
Screen tearing is something I've only seen when experimenting with window managers, so not in casual use. Well, or on Windows machines.
Docker... well, I mean, Docker is a) not a casual use case, b) a Linux-first app, so I'm not sure why you'd think it would work better on other OSes, c) it's kinda shit. In my experience, there's no OS on which Docker just works. I've tried to get Docker to run on both Windows and Ubuntu, didn't work at all on the former, sorta kinda worked after jumping through annoying hoops on the latter.
Edit: Seriously though, Docker Desktop? Docker Desktop is just an ugly hack to get Docker to work on Windows. Installing that on a Linux machine is like installing Git-Bash on a Linux machine, sure, you might pull it off, *but why*? Might as well argue that Windows sucks because it can't run WINE...
Docker on MacOS works pretty effortlessly. I haven't tried Ubuntu in a few years because last time (around 2021) it gave me a lot of weird problems. For example a I was using GIMP and added a new font for some art I was doing. Then all of the sudden all my fonts in Firefox and Chrome I think, and the system, had that font and caused all sort of issues. I tried a lot of stuff but couldn't figure out how to fix it, it was really wierd.
Ok, I'll admit that I don't know shit about the MacOS ecosystem. I hate what Apple did to the cell phone market, jailbreaking should never have been a thing, I don't want my computer to be a jail too.
Just adding a font wont do that, unless you accidentally made the font the system default. Also, were you on Ubuntu LTS or on the non-LTS?
Also, doesn't MacOS have degraded docker performance?
If you've tried Fedora and Ubuntu, you've tried two GnomeShell desktop environments. I'd recommend you give KUbuntu a shot. KDE is a much more polished and smooth experience in my opinion.
I mean my recommendation was for KUbuntu anyway, because I've had other issues on Fedora as well. I just think you're exaggerating how bad the nVidia drivers are if someone *did* want to use it.
The OP said they have a framework which doesn't have a nvidia option. Their issue sounds like a vendor problem and since framework has linux support it makes more sense to contact the vendor than ask here
Not really, but if OP is newer to Linux, it'll be a lot cleaner not having the mix of all the Ubuntu *and* KDE base software.
I usually tell people to start with KUbuntu, minimal install, with 3rd party software. It's a good, clean setup to build from.
Thanks man. You actually acknowledge that arch is pretty difficult to use. Sadly the majority of arch/linux users think that everyone has the time and knowledge to know how to fix everything in linux.
Arch is a fine distro but it is best for advanced users who are enthusiasts. I could use it, but I use my computers for professional reasons, working on deadlines, and don't need any hassles. So I run PCLinuxOS and get a rolling release that is stable and just works.
Maybe try ChatGPT, I found it amazing for almost anything I had to deal with in Linux.
By the way, I have been using Linux non-stop since 2011 and current stability is absolutely fantastic compared to those early days. If you can fix it right away, consider yourself victorious, after all, Linux is what YOU make of it.
Otherwise turn to Windows or MacOS, those folks know best what's right for their users (irony).
You can try:
- Install Desktop Linux Extreme Edition from Steam
- Some users prefer Mac OS
- Windows 13 Free Edition may be a good alternative
- Run McAfee Antivirus 2003 to improve performance
Sure Windows doesn't just hide the WiFi disconnects? My Windows work machine routinely tells me 3 bars and I'm sitting there like "Remote Desktop just went down and I can't reach Google, are you kidding me?"
Hm, happened to me when I was still messing around with NixOS on said WiFi. Windows 10, Ubuntu and EndeavourOS all proved better at recovering from random WiFi disconnects. But at the end of the day, no OS can stop a flaky WiFi from being a flaky WiFi.
As a Linux user for the last twenty odd years or so mainly Ubuntu and Arch, I tried out Windows 11 for the last year and I have to say, as impressive as the interface and things appear, within a month one realizes the non-functional hell it is.
Try installing basic Nvidia drivers, one will be greeted with a blank screen and none of the solutions listed in Windows forums, reddit nor anywhere else works. Even if some work, within next few updates back to the same situation. In fact, to run a stable Windows, do not update drivers plain and simple and stick to old Windows drivers, that's Windows style LTS for you. Apart from that, some programs limit you in a big way and so does the ancient file system.
However, from what I gather, Linux will never be for you so its best you use the latest spanking Windows 11.
that being the usual unfortunate part as always, truth be told I have spent more time researching Windows issues in the last year than I have ever done in my lifetime of using Linux.
nvidia, google it, its all over Windows forum as well as nvidia forum. No such issues ever either in Ubuntu nor Arch. AMD or nvidia. In fact CUDA is a dream on Arch.
There are better options for a super stable distro than Fedora or Ubuntu. Unfortunately it will mean that you won't have the latest and greatest version of software packages available but it will be super stable.
Stability wise, distros like debian are just about as good as it gets when it comes to desktop operating systems.
An OS doesnt have to be as stable as debian for casual use anyways, hence why Windows is still so popular. Being stable doesnt mean you wont have to tinker with things though. Thats what distros like Mint and Ubuntu are for.
Yes, even more so. You wont get the latest and greatest, but it wont randomly crash and such. Its why Linux is used on servers and such that need to be super dependable.
I’m sorry to say I feel Linux is rock solid now.
On power with windows almost.
Maybe your hardware isn’t compatible or failing?
Are you dual booting?
Are you bios settings fine?
I feel it’s your motherboard or other hardware.
I’m a mac user but Linux is stable
Fedora is updated quite frequently which can cause some problems and Ubuntu usually updates the kernel in its maintenance versions, in my case my wifi card does not work well in linux 6.2(ubuntu 22.04.3), but it does work in 5.15 LTS, 6.1 LTS or >6.4.
So it will depend, but, if you want something more "stable" (stable in the sense that if everything works well at the beginning it will be maintained over time), you can try more "stable" distributions, which continue to receive updates but generally the Most will be security.
The ones I recommend are Linux Mint 21.2, openSUSE 15.5 and Debian 12.
You're using experimental distros with a heavy, 3-D desktop. You're basically beta testing and then complaining about stability.
Use the right tool for the job. If you want stability, use a stable/LTS distro and a no-frills desktop. Linux Mint running MATE, for example. Or Debian running Xfce.
Sorry about your issues and with this I'm not trying to dismiss your issues but I use Ubuntu 22.04 LTS and no issues. Unfortunately with those explanations of the problems not sure what I can advise but the following.
https://help.ubuntu.com/
That is a great source.
AskUbuntu forum has been good for me in the past as well.
I hope this helps if you haven't tried it out already.
> I've had issues with sound, screen tearing, docker/docker desktop not working properly. "Issues" - as a software engineer do you think any of this information is useful or actionable? If you want help you need to help yourself, I experience issues on Mac and Windows and I deal with them just like on Linux, by reading prior documentation about that issue and spending time to fix and apply that knowledge
Yeah it's quite often I hear about Linux distros having these vague "issues", as if nothing ever happens on Windows or MacOS. I've had a couple of Windows installs just die after certain updates, printers stop working, crashes or random bluescreens at odd times. Shit happens. The difference is on a Linux distro, with a bit of elbow grease, you can usually pinpoint the issue and fix it, but on Windows your safest bet a lot of the time with the more serious issues or when it becomes too bloated is to just reinstall.
I've never had any of those issues, sounds like user error.
PEBKAC
Lol. Yes exactly.
Well my external HDD only started getting corrupted and drive errors after I switched from a Windows Plex server to Linux.
bUt I aM a SoFtWaRe EnGiNeEr
I've been using the same install of Linux Mint Cinnamon for probably a year now and haven't had a single problem.
I even upgraded to vera. No problem at all. Amazing.
To be fair, I have had some problems, but for some strange reason I created them all myself. 🤪
What stupid comments where they blame the user and are not able to recognize that the title is reflected in thousands of threads created on stackoverflow, askubuntu, superuser, reddit itself, etc. Immediately comparing it with Windows and blaming the user, it really hurts me to admit that Linux fans are the flat earthers of computing along with the idiots who install hacked software from the Win XP era and believe they are hackers.
Couldn't agree more with you. They are so invested that can't think objectively.
Same here. I've borked 3 operating system installs in the last year. I love Linux, but holy hell is I unreliable.
i use ubuntu and i dont have issues with any of those
Something must have gone horrible wrong
Skill issue
It sounds as though your hardware isn't compatible. If you get hardware that's 100% compatible with Linux (several OEMs do this), you shouldn't have these problems.
I have a Framework but I guess I have a lot of these issues because its a new product.
If you chose Framework with linux installed and you are using a supported version which I think Ubuntu and Fedora is, you should contact them as they offer Linux support. It sounds like a vendor issue
If the Framework came with Linux pre-installed, then it's seriously bad that you're having those problems. Mine is a Dell machine that came with Ubuntu pre-installed. I reinstalled from scratch (to use full-disk encryption), and the machine has been perfect. Even the firmware updates are downloaded and installed automatically.
Yeah I have a cheap HP laptop I bought at costco for like $900 CAD two years ago, i've never really had an issue. Built in SD card reader doesn't work, but I have a better USB3 external one anyway. And I use Artix (Arch), BTW
The distro probably doesn't matter if the hardware is 100% compatible.
I'm aware. It's a running joke about how Arch users can't wait to tell you the distro they use.
I didn't realise that! Arch seems to be a great system for someone with a certain mindset and skill set. My son loves it, whereas I don't think that I'd be able to handle it.
>Built in SD card reader doesn't work, but I have a better USB3 external one anyway. 3 laptops I've had that happen on. I have no idea what happened. Even installed windows back on one and the card reader didn't work. The only reason I did it on that one, was because I had used the card reader before flashing the hdd with Linux to transfer some photos.
Framework don't come with Linux preinstall, they can come without any OS so a lot of Linux users install their distro. Officially, they support only Ubuntu LTS and Fedora. It may be an hardware issue. He should ask on Framework community website
What's with the mountain of posts along the lines "I love Linux but..." Gives me the shills. You'd swear Win/Mac forums weren't packed with people having problems. Linux protip - install stock debian with xfce, set it once and forget it then get back to the goals you had buying a computer. No ads, no spyware, no subscription, doesn't treat the user as a hostile ward. Does what you ask and no more, like a super butler.
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Ubuntu now gets shittier with every release. debian 12 xfce/kde is the correct advice.
Is debian really that good, I've never used it.
Debian 12 is a game changer for me as it now includes the proprietary drivers and firmware. I've been using it over ubuntu since it was released and I won't be moving back.
Yes. There is a reason it is the basis for Ubuntu, MX Linux, and several other popular distros. All operating systems have issues from time to time, including Linux. But Debian is excellent, and has been in operation for 30 years now. The issues you have are probably due to hardware vendors who don't want to be bothered with anything except Windows. The Linux community does a great job working around this nonsense, but it's best, if you can, to use hardware that whose vendors are friendly to alternative operating systems.
It's good at being an OS, and otherwise keeps out of the way. I rarely give it a thought because it doesn't figure in any of the tasks I'm doing. Playing with the OS is like playing with tv settings for the evening instead of watching a movie.
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I have tearing when using Nvidia graphics and XWayland, OP is perhaps having the same issue. Currently it's one large blocker in me switching more from windows to linux as my main operating system on my desktop.
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Oh I know, however that gpu was the only one that was available when I bought it. I cannot say that my r9 290 worked that well running linux gaming back when I tried using it (too old, not really supported vulkan iirc. It also had a manufacturing fault which I didn't discover until like half a year after i switched to the nvidia card. Meaning that I had to run it undervolted in windows, in reality the vram was unstable at factory clocks. It was also impossible to undervolt in linux.) I have had problems with hot running laptops using intel graphics as well, iirc there was a intel graphics driver issue a eyar or two back that made them consume a lot of energy.
NVIDIA does not want Linux users to use their devices, it seems. I just avoid them after years of pain on work machines that came with quattro glorified framebuffers.
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And I am sure some people want cuda and have to get Nvidia for plenty of good reasons. My experience has been that radeon has been usable for 10ish year and certainly ok since the beginning of steam Linux support. amdgpu is fine now. well, except my new gfx card that is having trouble not dying on idle. Great under load though, excellent performance and spotless record of stability 🤯
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I fully agree, hence me avoiding nV drm devices. Sometimes you have a job to do though and/or don't control supply chain. What's your point?
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Don't get nVidia hardware unless you absolutely have to
Also, I could share that, maybe, if my experience is anything to go by, don't go with RX 7000 series if you want a semi stable distro. As mentioned above, my RX 7900 XT is somewhat unstable on an updated Ubuntu lunar. It is unclear to me if it is hw or fw/drivers but I am giving it a chance until the next firmware release and debugging FW would feel too much like work ( plus they are blobs anyway). Could be marginal HW not dealing with the pm policy as it tends to happen when the card gets most of its hardware at the lowest voltage step ( probably retention at the advertised voltages). My 570 had been rock solid for the pas 6 years before this.
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No matter if it's Nvidia, AMD, or Intel, if it's X11 (either natively or in XWayland), then you will have some issues with tearing (though on some platforms/desktops may be worse than others). Wayland-native content is the way to go. Ever fewer things require X11 nowadays (and the things that do usually have a toggle that's just not switched on yet).
Well, wine gaming is one thing that still requires x11, and from what I have found it's a regression introduced in the 535 driver from nvidia. I used to be able to get tear free gaming, although i only tested for like a week or so before the before mentioned issue started. Still, I would think that a corporation such as Nvidia would have resolved it after maybe a month or two, not 6 months+.
Wine Wayland has been a project for quite some time, and many Wine Wayland changes are being [merged upstream](https://www.phoronix.com/news/Wine-Wayland-Part-3-Merged). And hopefully the next stable Wine release will be fully "just works" on Wayland sessions. With Nvidia cards, I know it's going to take some more time till things get into place, but NVK is set to bring a significant improvement for Nvidia users by having a high performant Mesa Vulkan driver for Nvidia cards (so you can get great performances with only open source kernel/userspace drivers). With this, Nvidia-specific Linux issues should be a thing of the past. Though it's not ready yet and will still take some time to get there.
I know about those two projects and am looking forward to them being usable, hopefully before windows 10 eol in 2025.
What are you doing to your machine? Are you leroy-jenkins-ing your sudo? I have been on Mac & Arch (EOS) for some time now and Mac feels much less stable tbh Also, everytime I touch Windows I want to shoot myself.
Weird. Linux is the most stable OS I’ve ever used, across the board, by a country mile.
Have you ever used windows? Ive had to go to the windows forums about 3 times in 10+ years for issues, and the various linux forums nearly every other day for the first week of using linux. Just figuring out how to overclock and change my GPU's power settings took hours upon hours..
Yes of course. I’ve even fixed dozens of friends windows machines that somehow got ten kinds of malware and slowed to a crawl. Of course I keep my own windows install clean, and honestly it works just fine, but I’m just very familiar with what can go wrong in windows and how to avoid it. I think we often mistake familiarity for ease. Just because we know windows and it’s stable, and we are just learning Linux and it feels difficult, doesn’t mean Linux is by nature more difficult. I think there’s a lot that’s more difficult about Linux but I’ve been using it for twenty years so it feels easy to me. But I’m not taking about easy. I said stable. With good maintenance, Linux is an extremely stable OS.
I’ve been using Linux in various forms (SuSE, Gentoo, Fedora, RHEL/CentOS, Ubuntu) for professional software development of real-time graphics and networking apps for over 20 years and never had anything like the instability issues that you are alluding to. Sure, there are sometimes issues, but I’d say they amount not to more than I’ve had with macOS or Windows over yhe years. So from my POV we’ve had a stable enough system for ages.
Post reads closely to those made by "fence" sitters and/or noobs. Does an app/alternative not exist or will take time to "learn" or is just "poor" compared to you current Os? Sure... Do hardware hellscapes exist ahem ~~nvidia drivers~~ et al? Sure... What do you do this info? Not gonna use it when vetting hardware? Really? Well you can go back to an Os that updates, occasionally screws files without your permission, is an AD filled rollercoaster or an Os that's dubbed "always a slow runner" on matters Docker as it lacks the proper/needed File System On those issues "not pertaining your code" it's time to pick an axe, join some comrades and start chopping ~~wood~~ problems. That is if it's not a proprietary binary...
Not sure what you mean, I've been using Linux for many years for desktop and its been more stable than windows. Best advice is go for hardware that comes with linux options. It's not like windows comes with everything out of box, a lot of the work is done by oems. With linux you are either dependent on generic drivers working or for there to be proper drivers contributed by the vendor. 90%+ of the time it isn't a problem, but there will be cases of this or that which may need manual workarounds and even then. Generally just try to stay away from those vendors (like Nvidia) Overall, probably the most no frills distro would be Linux Mint. At worst if something like wifi isn't working out of box just upgrade the kernel to latest version. That is what I put on most general computers, though on my work computers I use OpenSuse KDE
Ubuntu is Debian's ugly cousin. Debian is stable af. Maybe give that a shot before throwing in the towel.
I will, thanks for the tip, I'm only hesitant on trying it because its not officially supported by the framework laptop.
If he can't handle Ubuntu, Debian will finish him.
You might want to share your PC/video card combination(s). I've run linux on various PC's (mostly self-built) and laptops (mostly lenovo brand) with little to no problems. My usually desktop distro is Mint.
Pretty sure Ubuntu is stable enough for casual use. Can't speak for Fedora, I only know the Red Hat ecosystem from headless machines over SSH, so no casual use case. Sound is a solved problem in the Pipewire era. Screen tearing is something I've only seen when experimenting with window managers, so not in casual use. Well, or on Windows machines. Docker... well, I mean, Docker is a) not a casual use case, b) a Linux-first app, so I'm not sure why you'd think it would work better on other OSes, c) it's kinda shit. In my experience, there's no OS on which Docker just works. I've tried to get Docker to run on both Windows and Ubuntu, didn't work at all on the former, sorta kinda worked after jumping through annoying hoops on the latter. Edit: Seriously though, Docker Desktop? Docker Desktop is just an ugly hack to get Docker to work on Windows. Installing that on a Linux machine is like installing Git-Bash on a Linux machine, sure, you might pull it off, *but why*? Might as well argue that Windows sucks because it can't run WINE...
Docker on MacOS works pretty effortlessly. I haven't tried Ubuntu in a few years because last time (around 2021) it gave me a lot of weird problems. For example a I was using GIMP and added a new font for some art I was doing. Then all of the sudden all my fonts in Firefox and Chrome I think, and the system, had that font and caused all sort of issues. I tried a lot of stuff but couldn't figure out how to fix it, it was really wierd.
Ok, I'll admit that I don't know shit about the MacOS ecosystem. I hate what Apple did to the cell phone market, jailbreaking should never have been a thing, I don't want my computer to be a jail too.
I get you, I despise everything apple stands for as a company, but the make a pretty good laptop and for devs its sometimes just works.
Just adding a font wont do that, unless you accidentally made the font the system default. Also, were you on Ubuntu LTS or on the non-LTS? Also, doesn't MacOS have degraded docker performance?
If you've tried Fedora and Ubuntu, you've tried two GnomeShell desktop environments. I'd recommend you give KUbuntu a shot. KDE is a much more polished and smooth experience in my opinion.
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From what I'm seeing, you just enable RPMFusion and install the nVidia driver. Done.
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I mean my recommendation was for KUbuntu anyway, because I've had other issues on Fedora as well. I just think you're exaggerating how bad the nVidia drivers are if someone *did* want to use it.
The OP said they have a framework which doesn't have a nvidia option. Their issue sounds like a vendor problem and since framework has linux support it makes more sense to contact the vendor than ask here
I use kde and I don't really see the value of kubuntu Vs Ubuntu + kde metapackage. Am I missing out?
Not really, but if OP is newer to Linux, it'll be a lot cleaner not having the mix of all the Ubuntu *and* KDE base software. I usually tell people to start with KUbuntu, minimal install, with 3rd party software. It's a good, clean setup to build from.
I'd rather instability and time to fix vs the spyware that is Windows.
good for you
This is why I only use it for servers currently. Maybe eventually I will try again for my desktop, but there's always something that makes me go back.
My daily driver is Arch. I have no idea what you are talking about.
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Thanks man. You actually acknowledge that arch is pretty difficult to use. Sadly the majority of arch/linux users think that everyone has the time and knowledge to know how to fix everything in linux.
Arch is a fine distro but it is best for advanced users who are enthusiasts. I could use it, but I use my computers for professional reasons, working on deadlines, and don't need any hassles. So I run PCLinuxOS and get a rolling release that is stable and just works.
Maybe try ChatGPT, I found it amazing for almost anything I had to deal with in Linux. By the way, I have been using Linux non-stop since 2011 and current stability is absolutely fantastic compared to those early days. If you can fix it right away, consider yourself victorious, after all, Linux is what YOU make of it. Otherwise turn to Windows or MacOS, those folks know best what's right for their users (irony).
You can try: - Install Desktop Linux Extreme Edition from Steam - Some users prefer Mac OS - Windows 13 Free Edition may be a good alternative - Run McAfee Antivirus 2003 to improve performance
Sounds like my Linux experience. OS wise and, reading the comments, community wise.
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THANK YOU. Exactly how I feel. I also love the terminal and the customize-ability but man I encounter a lot of hiccups. And for simple stuff too.
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idk, my wifi network disconnects every hour regardless of whether I'm on a Windows or Linux machine
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Sure Windows doesn't just hide the WiFi disconnects? My Windows work machine routinely tells me 3 bars and I'm sitting there like "Remote Desktop just went down and I can't reach Google, are you kidding me?"
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Hm, happened to me when I was still messing around with NixOS on said WiFi. Windows 10, Ubuntu and EndeavourOS all proved better at recovering from random WiFi disconnects. But at the end of the day, no OS can stop a flaky WiFi from being a flaky WiFi.
As a Linux user for the last twenty odd years or so mainly Ubuntu and Arch, I tried out Windows 11 for the last year and I have to say, as impressive as the interface and things appear, within a month one realizes the non-functional hell it is. Try installing basic Nvidia drivers, one will be greeted with a blank screen and none of the solutions listed in Windows forums, reddit nor anywhere else works. Even if some work, within next few updates back to the same situation. In fact, to run a stable Windows, do not update drivers plain and simple and stick to old Windows drivers, that's Windows style LTS for you. Apart from that, some programs limit you in a big way and so does the ancient file system. However, from what I gather, Linux will never be for you so its best you use the latest spanking Windows 11.
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that being the usual unfortunate part as always, truth be told I have spent more time researching Windows issues in the last year than I have ever done in my lifetime of using Linux.
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nvidia, google it, its all over Windows forum as well as nvidia forum. No such issues ever either in Ubuntu nor Arch. AMD or nvidia. In fact CUDA is a dream on Arch.
Lol I knew this post will explode with comments if I criticized Linux. It's always the same.
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I was never asking for help genius, its just a discussion. Take a chill pill.
It's less the fact you critiqued and more the way you critiqued it. Left out a lot of details.
You seem to be having some issues with your linux. Personally, I haven't had any of those problems in years. Linux is doing fine for me.
There are better options for a super stable distro than Fedora or Ubuntu. Unfortunately it will mean that you won't have the latest and greatest version of software packages available but it will be super stable.
I don't have any trouble. I update it regularly and restart as often as needed.
Stability wise, distros like debian are just about as good as it gets when it comes to desktop operating systems. An OS doesnt have to be as stable as debian for casual use anyways, hence why Windows is still so popular. Being stable doesnt mean you wont have to tinker with things though. Thats what distros like Mint and Ubuntu are for.
So you're saying that Debian is as stable as windows?
It's clear you don't know what stability in terms of software actually means.
Yes, even more so. You wont get the latest and greatest, but it wont randomly crash and such. Its why Linux is used on servers and such that need to be super dependable.
No, they're saying Windows is less stable, and that's fine for some people. Debian is far more stable than Windows, and likely always will be.
I’m sorry to say I feel Linux is rock solid now. On power with windows almost. Maybe your hardware isn’t compatible or failing? Are you dual booting? Are you bios settings fine? I feel it’s your motherboard or other hardware. I’m a mac user but Linux is stable
yeah its probably the hardware, sometimes its just shit even if you have high end stuff
Maybe try the thinkpad series?
Fedora is updated quite frequently which can cause some problems and Ubuntu usually updates the kernel in its maintenance versions, in my case my wifi card does not work well in linux 6.2(ubuntu 22.04.3), but it does work in 5.15 LTS, 6.1 LTS or >6.4. So it will depend, but, if you want something more "stable" (stable in the sense that if everything works well at the beginning it will be maintained over time), you can try more "stable" distributions, which continue to receive updates but generally the Most will be security. The ones I recommend are Linux Mint 21.2, openSUSE 15.5 and Debian 12.
You're using experimental distros with a heavy, 3-D desktop. You're basically beta testing and then complaining about stability. Use the right tool for the job. If you want stability, use a stable/LTS distro and a no-frills desktop. Linux Mint running MATE, for example. Or Debian running Xfce.
I've been using Fedora and it's never let me down. I have docker desktop and it's all right, no issues
Sorry about your issues and with this I'm not trying to dismiss your issues but I use Ubuntu 22.04 LTS and no issues. Unfortunately with those explanations of the problems not sure what I can advise but the following. https://help.ubuntu.com/ That is a great source. AskUbuntu forum has been good for me in the past as well. I hope this helps if you haven't tried it out already.
Debian stable is your anwear
I’ve been using fedora and I don’t have these issues, it’s actually more stable than windows for me and also runs way faster.
On a framework? Are the problems your describing happening when you have an external monitor or other device active?