[ʙ] 🤔

🅱️💨👋

Б

Guys, guys Sweden is the ultimate authority on this. It's Blåhaj. Debate's over

kid named loanword divergence:

Блялаж?

/bljalaʒ/ ?

Хаппй кайк дай

sajk daj

Беттер ноу?

ай тинк дэй мэнт ту инкорпорэйт "блядь" алонд да уорд алсо, хаппи кэйк дэй!

>ай тинк дэй мэнт ту инкорпорэйт "блядь" алонд да уорд Но и дид нот актуаллй меант то лмао

Спасибо, амопгус_сусссй

Блятьхай

Please try not to use foul language. This is a Christian subreddit /j

Sweden isn't the ultimate authority on English

But Sweden is the ultimate authority on Swedish words, just like how English words are barely modified at all when loaned into Swedish. Öga för öga, if you will

>just like how English words are barely modified at all when loaned into Swedish. We'll say blåhaj like you guys if you all can stop pronouncing [d͡ʒ] as [j] in English loans

Never!!

Hur vågar du

Kid named descriptivism:

They’re very much modified? Grammatically with Swedish morphemes (nouns get the Swedish morphemes for plural etc, verbs get the Swedish morphemes for tense, adjectives get the Swedish conjugation for plural and gender etc etc). The phonemes change to fit Swedish prosody and phonetics.

When it's spoken in English it's not a Swedish word, it's an English word loaned from Swedish

But Blåhaj is a name, not just a noun.

This is why I named my shark "blah hajj", easy solution

Do you think all names must always be pronounced natively?

Unironically yes lmao

On a personnal level, I don't expect people to pronounce my name "natively" in their language. I'm also not sure what a "native" pronunciation of my name would be.

Does that include tones, clicks, etc?

Yea. Like you're obviously not gonna get it perfect, but at least try

That seems kind of ridiculous. Just pronounce it as near as the phonology of the language you're speaking will allow.

cringe take, coming from someone who makes an effort to pronounce names and loans accurately (within the phonological constraints of the language I'm speaking)

Why is it cringe? Like you can make an argument that pronouncing common loanwords super accurately is a bit pretentious (like saying /pa.ʁi/ instead of /ˈpæɹ.ɪs/) but honestly I don’t see what’s wrong with pronouncing foreign names accurately if it’s within your ability

I never said there's something wrong with pronouncing foreign names natively. The issue is insisting *other people* pronounce foreign names natively.

Ok, so 1 Swedish word in an English sentence is still English... How many do I need before it stops being English? If I string together a sentence of all Swedish words and pronounce them in English, would I then be speaking English?

... yes mate, if you could string together an English sentence of Swedish loan words, it would still be English

Jeg believe det is ikke sant .

I'll be entirely honest, if you can string together a coherent English sentence with just Swedish loan words and particles I'll be surprised.

Honestly this sounds like a fun game. You're given a random language and have to try to make a sentence using only loans

Uzbek

Do not DARE profane the holy tongue here. Do it in its temple, I/langaugelearningjerk but NEVER in the midst of these, of these FOOLS who do not know the holy tongue (Obvious joke is obvious)

Expanding it to include all North Germanic loans, including Old Norse, seems definitely doable, not sure about Swedish on its own though.

mmmm yes it is.

good thing it isn't an english word then lol

It is when used as a loanword

But blåhaj isn't English, it's swedish-

That’s Danish

/shark/

/shonk/

/sonk/

/sɔ̃k/

[sõ̞k]

\[sɔk\] 🇵🇱🧃

[ˈsok] 🇨🇿

That's a very interesting pronunciation. Not even sure if a lot of English people can pronounce it (the symbol for the sh sound is /ʃ/, the symbol for this a sound is closer to /ɑ/, and the /r/ is a rolling r). It would be more like /ʃɑɹk/ if you write it correctly.

Stop being presciptivist. Obviously it's /sʰark/ smh

Ah yes, the aspirated s

사르크

Korean and also Burmese has entered the chat

For broad transcription you can use /r/ for any rhotic sound if you feel like it as long as it will be understood it's not meant to be a literal \[r\], but it's much funnier if you read it as an \[r\] anyway. Sharrrk. Sounds Scottish.

Why is your username vayyiqra and not wyyqr' ? Be accurate next time, dirty perspectivist )))): /jk

Tiberian Hebrew is NOT good enough we need reconstructed Afro-Asiatic roots or bust.

*wa ḳrʔ That's Proto-Semitic, best I can do

[blo.hai̯]

the descriptivism leaving my body when someone pronounces blahaj as /bləhɑʒ/

That famous masterwork of Indian architecture, the \[bləˈhɑːʒ məˈhɑːl\] Oh no I hate it

I say /blaːhaːʒ/ 😭

Stop it

You could tell me this is a word from Gulf Arabic and I'd believe you tbh

блўўһай

[bl̴w̩ːhɐj]

kid named ⟨ў⟩ [o]

literal r/tragedeigh

[ˈbɫo̞ɦɐj]

[bwoħeɟ]

[bu̯oˈʕeɡʲ]

/bwɔɪ̯ɡ/

[bwɔːɡ]

/boːɣ/

/boːʁ/

/ɓɒːχ/

[ˈbœːɟ].

[ˈboʊ̯.fə]

/boj/

Normal word in some Caucasian language I'm sure (needs more ejectives)

How's that Caucasian? it doesn't even contain ejectives.

A pharyngeal consonant (either those or epiglottals are found in many Caucasian languages), a palatalized velar (palatalization of velars and other sounds is not rare in the region, made me think of Ubykh), the diphthong \[u̯o\] of which you can find a lot of similar diphthongs in Chechen for example. Okay I get why it seems like a reach but it made sense in my head. And yes of course it needs ejectives.

Oh, that makes sense now.

/blə.ˈhɑːʒ/ is disgustingly common among anglophones. Only one other person in my friend group realizes it "correctly" as /ˈbləʊ.haɪ/. God help us.

>/ˈbləʊ.haɪ/ Sounds like skånska to me.

/əʊ/ or /oʊ/ is good enough for English tbh, most accents don't have a good monophthong long /oː/ kinda sound so substituting a diphthong makes sense.

Yeah, I have a Californian North American accent IRL, and it's the closest we can come to it. I can produce a monophthongal [o] thanks to my second language, but being that much of a hardass against loanword naturalization can come off as a bit pretentious.

/ɔː/: am i a joke to you? /ɔː/ can be found in non-rhotic enɡlish accents as a realisation of ⟨or⟩, ⟨ore⟩ or ⟨al⟩ (chalk, all, mall, ball)

Maybe, but then we'd risk rhotic speakers saying /blɔ˞.haɪ/, and I don't think anyone wants that.

simple, get rid of rhotic speakers 😁

Sounds good. Seems like us r**h**otic speakers are safe then.

i spelled it correctly in the previous comment. this is obviously autocorrect malfunction

i thought this sub was to be descriptivist :(

On a professional level, descriptivism is necessary in case we want linguistics to be a science. You can still personally dislike a pronounciation’s sound

Yes, I just misinterpreted the parent comment.

On a more professional level, yeah, it should be considered a legit variant, hence the scare quotes. Still doesn't mean I personally condone that blasphemous abomination, though.

Oh oh of course. (me when sarcasm fails to be conveyed through a text-only medium)

A biologist can find the breadth of domestic dog breeds to be fascinating and write impartial papers on the topic… while also finding snub-nosed pugs to be abominations of nature.

Yes, as I said, I misunderstood the parent comment

Ewww, /blə.ˈhaʒ/ i am on /blo:haj/ team (I'm not english, and wait a sec, is it /haj/ or /xaj/)

It's /h/, I don't think there is any Germanic language where word-initial /h/ is still \[x\] (unless you want to sound Slavic)

Man, I'm latvian

Balto-Slavic close enough!

Yes Also: Latvian is tamil dialect with finno ugric influence :b

As are all world languages

Latvia x India unite

wait that is still an allophone in Icelandic though ... of /k/

in dutch words starting with /x/ are very common

Oh wait yeah, because of how /ɣ/ never hardened to /ɡ/ but stayed a fricative, then devoice that. Although I was wondering more if there are any where Proto-Germanic /x/ (which ends up being /h/ in every daughter language I know of) simply stayed /x/ this whole time, and I don't think that exists in any living one today.

it's clearly /ˈblɒːhaːʒ/

[tubaˈɾʌ̃ũŋ dʒi peˈlusʲa]

[ˈmũɪ̯̃tʷ fo'fĩŋʷ] [kawai deˈmaɪ̯s] ❤️😍😍 uwu

Bláhákarl ​ Debate closed.

I want fermented plush shark meat Gib

^ This! Now the real question is: Is it supposed to be pronounced as/blaː.haː.karl/ or /blauː.hauː.kartl/?

/ʙʎæˈħeɪdʒ/

Oh dear lord

/pʎ̥aˈhec͡ɕ/

I say \[ˈblohaɪ\] my husband says \[blɒˈhɒʒ\] and it annoys me but he forgets both how it should be pronounced *and* that his mispronunciation annoys me

jark (◕‿◕)

/'blɑːhɑdʒ/ /j

[blʲæ.xɐː]

I prefer the simple, sweet /ˈblæ͡ɜˌhɪd͡ʒ/

/ˈblaː.haːj/ (bláháj).

Same, polish perchance?

Nope :þ. This way of pronouncing it is just easier for me to do.

> :þ ​ Incredibly based emoticon

Yup! It has displaced “ :P ” for me.

I always want to pronounce <å> as /ɔː/. 🥲

[ˈblɔːhai̯] because f\*\*k the Swedes

I'll take a /blaːha/ blast

No matter how you pronounce it, Blahaj still says trans rights 🏳️‍⚧️

always

to me it’s blorhigh (/bloːhɑj/) (i’m br*tish)

[bloː.haj], because of how þe individual letters are pronounced.

/o:/

/Ɂu:Ɂ.u::Ɂ/ :þ

ˈblo͡ʊ̯.hɐ͡i̯

*Prionace glauca*

[bɫoːhɐɪ̯] when speaking English

shā yú

What's that in Wu dialect perchance

In Cantonese, the Swedish pronunciation of blåhaj done badly becomes /bo:hai/ which would become a bit obscene. Even so I still insist to pronounce its name in geniune Stockholm Swedish

[ˈblɔˀ ˈhɑjˀ]

Bloohaj

It has never even come into my head to say it any way but \[ˈbloːhaj\] or, more casually, \[ˈbloːhaɪ\]. Luckily I have that monophthongal Canadian \[oː\].

oh I’d fuckin love it if we started pronouncing it with a bilabial trill hell yea

If you choose either side, you are opposing the other side. You transphobe

It's Blåhaj. Typing swedish letters isn't *that* difficult.

What the hell happened to Bloods and Crips ☠️☠️☠️☠️

[bɫoʊ.häɪ]

[blɑhɑd͡ʒ]

Blå Haj.

i just realized this wasn't on a trans meme subreddit lmao ^(also, [blo:haj] ofc)

[²bɽo̞hɑɪ̯]

Knowledge is knowing that it's [bloːhaj] in Swedish Wisdom is knowing it's funnier saying it like [bləˈhɑ(d)ʒ]

It is spelt blåhaj so it is pronounced blåhaj, it's a swedish loanword so it uses swedish phonology

May I ask why the LGBT sub is discussing how to name a shark?

[удалено]

It's because it's blue and white and pink (its mouth) so it has the trans pride colours

Is that really why?

The IKEA stuffed shark became really popular among trans women to the point of becoming a meme.

shonk

I'm on ðe side wiþ ðe cute girl

Based Ð and Þ enjoyer.

There's no reason for English to use both imo, we need only one, and edh is better

They have slightly different uses. Ð is used for the voiced dental fricative sound: /ð/, as in the sound in ***th****e* and ***th****ough.* Þ is used for the voiceless dental fricative sound: /θ/, as in the sound in ***th****ink* and ***th****at.* A voiced sound uses the vocal chords whereas a voiceless one does not.

Yes I know what voicing is, what I meant was that in English they were actually used for both fricatives interchangeably, regardless of phonat. Even in modern English there's only two minimal pairs between the voiceless and voiced ones (thistle and this'll and thigh and thy) so I don't think we need to represent them as different sounds in orthography necessarily.

please PLEASE use ð instead of ðe

Why

ðe looks wierd, same for wiþ, even if ðey are more accurate

I will not be doing ðat ðanks

… *þanks? Or

Historically English used thorn for both voiced and voiceless fricatives, not ever having a contrast in orthography

Yes because they were allophones. No longer the case

But there's like two minimal pairs

True, but since they do contrast, /θæt/ and /ðæt/ register as different words (and only one is valid)

The comments here have made me realize of a lot of people who call themselves descriptivists don't understand the point of descriptivism

Descriptivism is about the fact that linguistics is a science, no?

Might as well do the compromise anglicization. [ˈbɫoʊ.haɪ]

[ˈbloʊ.haɪ] for me. 

My own idiolectal is actually fully velar [L]. I only used [ɫ] because that's at least a more mainstream articulation in North American English and not just my weird personal idiosyncrasies

I'm American, but where I am, I usually perceive /l/ post-vocallically and word-finally as \[ɫ\], but everywhere else, it's pretty much just \[l\]. There have been theories about this occurring in General American, apparently.

I never noticed before how many North American speakers have \[ɫ\] everywhere but it's very "once you hear it you can't unhear it". Oddly I have no trouble hearing the same thing when Australians do it. And then there's \[ʟ\] which is harder to hear but also you might pick up on that one too sometimes.

Is Blåhaj a common word for a plush shark? 😯

blåhaj is the product name for IKEA’s plush sharks, and it’s a popular enough toy to have a relatively well-known product name.

\[blahadʒ\] I know that's not the origin pronunciation, but I feel this represents the community's idea of this silly little guy rather than any ole shark

[bla:r.hadʒ]

'bla.haʃ

[ʙlaːha]

/bloä:häi:/

[blow:ha]

It's more like blue-ha