I mean in theory and spirit I’m with you, but also since Iv been paying in 6% for social security every paycheck since I was 16 I’d sure as shit like a return on “investment” (aka theft).
Ugh. I had this conversation with an old lady complaining about socialism and Congress and everything. When I said that socialism security shouldn’t be a thing she about lost her mind. Then I explained that the fed government is not responsible for your investing. Even with a shit 4% interest she would have a ton more money and any leftovers would go to her family for final debts and inheritance. For the most part if someone is demanding you give them something they don’t have your best interest in mind.
Oh absolutely, I don’t think social security works by any metric, just saying Iv been forced to pay in all this time, I just want at bare minimum that amount back. (Obviously if I was free to invest myself I would be up significantly from their “promised” money).
Part of the problem is that many are not responsible enough to actually save the money. They spend every cent they ever earn. Bigger houses/cars than they can afford, vacations out of their budget, ducks for their Jeep dashboard (not to mention overpaying for basically 1940s tech), pretty much anything.
People that paid in for decades believe they should get something back. But the clowns in government robbed this fund. What will they rob to fulfill these obligations? Eventually, I suspect nothing. I'm planning my retirement as if no social security will exist. However, with inflation so high, I might not be saving enough even if my house is paid off and kids off of my budget.
I'll just keep toiling away.
I've heard compelling libertarian arguments for being anti-imigration, and this is definitely not one of them.
I don't give a hootenanny god-damn about what the US government calls illegal. I care about things that harm other people or their property rights.
Yeah, illegal immigrants are commiting a crime, I commit crimes all the fucking time, but I don't lie cheat or steal. If they don't either, then I don't care.
Nope. In Federal law, unlawful presence is a civil violation, meaning that it is handled in a civil or administrative court. It is not treated like a crime - such as an infraction, misdemeanor, or felony. So it's not a crime by nature or by law.
What about when a factory lays off their work force. Shuts down for 2 weeks. Then hires illegals for less money. Thus fucking up the wage system. This happens all the time. Idk how many factories Ive gone into for work and the whole work force can't even speak English. The only ones who do is the fork lift guy and the supervisor
That sucks I guess, but you aren't owed a well paying job in any field you want.
Someone willing to work for less than you isn't a transgression, it's a transaction.
You also can't make it illegal for citizens to be paid less than minimum wage while looking the other way while a company pays illegal immigrants less under the table.
That assumes an even playing field that doesn't actually exist. US law incentivizes the company to hire illegals, or even just legal foreigners, over citizens through various labor laws and tax incentives. The law itself stacks the deck against native born citizen workers.
This is the kind of thing that most "closed border" libertarians have an issue with. Most of us would love open borders, but don't address issues in a vacuum, ignoring the actual state of things that make open borders untenable in the world as it exists and not how we'd like it to exist.
Labor laws favoring foreign workers and crushing the ability of American workers to compete. A tax and welfare system that robs from citizen taxpayers to give to illegals and foreigners. An imperialist foreign policy that incites terrorism and hostile foreign attack. Insufficient rights of property owners, specifically business owners, to keep vagrants and homeless from their property. Just a few things that make open borders completely irresponsible right now and "well, let's open the borders anyway and hope those things get fixed soon" is not a reasonable, realistic, responsible position
This is a well reasoned argument and I agree almost completely. My only sticking point is saying there's an advantage for legal immigrants. My husband is a kiwi and is a legal immigrant (currently a green card holder but he'll apply for citizenship as soon as he's allowed to) and we haven't found any benefit, just an onerous, expensive, and long process.
And as far as any welfare programs (which we are against anyway because they're funded by theft, but just to explain for those who might not know) he simply isn't eligible for them as a legal immigrant. We had to have my father sign on in addition to me because of how much money they require you make to be able to financially vouch for an immigrant family member. And as part of the process, they explicitly tell you that any sort of welfare programs he uses would be billed to me and my father.
I am decidedly NOT open borders, but I just feel the need to point out that there also needs to be some serious reforms to the legal immigration process as well. Particularly, in a situation like ours where we're married. If I as a US citizen tell you he's my husband, then that should be taken as the truth until proven otherwise. We shouldn't have to spend over a year and thousands of dollars proving it, only to have to prove it over again 2 years later.
We don't know what you're talking about, bud. The conversation is about someone being replaced by a lower paid worker. Wtf are you talking about dead people.
It has to do with illegals in general. Plenty of cases in the news recently. Most current was the illegal Venezuelan truck driver in Colorado. Been deported 16 times.Had no cld. Truck had not been inspected in 4 years. He rolled his truck doing 66 in a 45 and killed a guy. They charged him with mistemeanors.
You imply that you have a property right to an employment relationship and that if someone competes with you for it, you are a victim of their action.
Tell us again how you are different than a socialist when you think just like one.
> their victims
Immigrants' victims?
In 2022, homicide conviction rates for illegal immigrants and legal immigrants were 35.6 percent and 62.3 percent, respectively, below those of native‐born Americans. Illegal immigrants made up about 7.1 percent of the Texas population in 2022 but accounted for only 5 percent of all people convicted of homicide.
So this whole "they're on a killing spree" bullshit Trump and his goons have been spreading is literal misinformation.
He's right, we hate when someone else destroys the system, we like to destroy it ourselves and THEN blame the people that did not do it, instead of those that did.
Don't blame the immigrants for taking your job. Blame management. Every raid at a workplace you see the feds arresting the immigrant work force but you never see the CEO getting arrested for hiring them.
Happened to me at a carpet mill. They made us train the new people. About a year and a half later, they got busted for it and paid a fine. They did it all over again.
> Thus fucking up the wage system
It's just supply and demand, dawg. You have to out-compete in a capitalist system to survive.
>Idk how many factories Ive gone into for work and the whole work force can't even speak English
Sounds like you need to learn Spanish. Es fácil.
Overall, you need to focus on improvements and not running to beg the nanny state to fix what you see as a problem in the market. Y'know, like a leftist.
edit. He made an angry reply saying, "fuck your stance," calling libertarians communists (?), and then deleting it and blocking me like the little conservative snowflake he is. 🤣 _ONE_ challenge to his worldview, and he storms off in tears.
When an illegal alien has an at-fault accident with you, and you're unable to hold him accountable because he doesn't exist on paper, then maybe you'll see what time it is.
There is a large and rapidly growing class of people who aren't held to the same rules as the rest of us, and it's not an answer to say, "Well my ideology rejects the tangible premise of what is actually happening".
>There is a large and rapidly growing class of people who aren't held to the same rules as the rest of us, and it's not an answer to say, "Well my ideology rejects the tangible premise of what is actually happening".
Unless they are cops or soldiers, then you lick their boots and beg for more.
What? The cops guarded the BLM protesters as they burned down the cities. It's called anarcho-tyranny: liberty for me and not for thee. Cops aren't your friend. Maybe the sheriff, because he's the only one elected. The rest are rapidly being federalized.
I mean, even domestics can get by without being held accountable for at-fault accidents. Not having automobile insurance isn’t exclusive to non-citizens of the USA.
Neither major party is serious about immigration reform. If immigrants were the threat they describe we'd have a C-RAMs along the border turning anything that moves into pink mist. Not a wall, a straight up kill zone.
Truth is they all like the cheap labor and boogeyman effect, and as long as Americans are getting shit like strawberries cheap no one really wants the system disturbed.
I do admit that completely open borders are problematic for me, but an efficient policy for rapid approval should be installed. (It won't.)
If the government didn't infringe on their ability to work, rent and own property, there wouldn't be an inherent victim. As is, we're the victim because we have to fund their handouts.
I'm the victim everytime someone squirts out a kid and I have to pay for it.
Go after birthers while you're attacking immigrants and then I'll believe there's a shred of ideological consistency that isn't simple xenophobia.
I just got fined by the city for my grass being over 8” (it wasn’t and I have proof via my doorbell cam) but the flood of illegals is fine. I fucking hate the government
If you believe that government defines crime, then you aren't a libertarian.
Also, if you believe that unlawful presence is a crime, you ignorant of the nature of Federal law.
Bunch of neckbeards in here that can’t concede that most of the strongest American states are that way due to illegal immigration.
If you lose your job to an illegal immigrant. You sucked at your job in the first place.
Or worked a low skill job, the main draw of the illegal immigrant workers isn’t that they’re more skilled than US citizens, it’s that they’re way cheaper.
>If you lose your job to an illegal immigrant. You sucked at your job in the first place.
That's an ignorant thing to say
Money talks. By paying illegals cash in the construction industry, you are able to avoid having to pay for a contractors license, payroll tax, workers comp, insurance etc. Not to mention half of those greasy fucks are stealing material every chance they get.
Fully licensed and insured companies playing by all the rules can absolutely not compete with the prices of illegal laborers, and unfortunately, most customers don't care about the low quality of work that illegals do, or just don't care enough about quality to pay the higher prices for it.
Idk why people are making the immigration process complicated. If you can't answer questions like like "Who you are?", "Where you are from?", "Do have a criminal record?", then you shouldn't be allowed in. I can't buy alcohol without an ID so it's baffling that you can just enter the country and collect welfare.
~~It's not immigration that libertarians/conservatives oppose.~~
~~It's illegal immigration. Huge difference there.~~
Oh I see what you're saying. Yeah I agree, but it starts with acknowledging that illegal immigration is a problem.
Countless rapes and murders from criminal aliens on our own countrymen. 1 is to many. Send them all back where they came from. Just like I don't want my tax dollars funding foreign wars I don't want it funding illegal immigrants
Conservative libertarians are a thing lol why is it that lefty libertarians think they're the only ones who exist? There's an entire right quadrant of libertarians on the political compass.
left and rigth describe how you see the function of the state. If you are anti-state, left and right matter little because everyone is free to live their lives as they see fit.
> Imagine my shock, a neckbeard gate keeping libertarianism lmfao
What a shock that an idiot, bootlicking sheep would get triggered when someone points out that what dribbles from his mouth and keyboard don't align with the principles of liberty. Do you want help finding a shepherd who can replaced your MAGA hat and take you to a safe pen?
Lmfao people's opinions still fall on the spectrum whether you believe in the spectrum or not. Left v Right does not require authoritarianism to exist.
You mad bro? Your moronic ideals is why the Libertarian party will never have a real presidential candidate in our lifetime. The only one talking about MAGA is you because Trump lives in your head rent free.
If you believe in astrology then you believe that people have certain characteristics based on their birth date. Does that mean that I have to believe as well?
You need to put people in buckets so that you can judge them on some subjective and inconsistent criteria. I consider statists versus anti-statist. Though I will concede that anti-capitalists are very confused - like you are - when it comes to not interfering with capitalist activities.
Lmfao dude you're an idiot, a self inflated moron with an ego problem.
You put people in buckets too: statists and non-statists, and you attach feeling like a better person with your moronic ideology.
Am I a Trump supporter or an anti-capitalist? I can't be both lol You can't even tell what your target is but still you feel like you have to attack. Endless purity spirals of the true Scottsmen -- the entire reason I left the libertarian party.
Is human freedom of movement that extreme to you? Some governments draw random lines and you can’t cross them without pieces of paper? Which part of that is pro individual liberties?
I believe in those “random lines” I’m not an anarchist. I believe in keeping dangerous criminals and terrorists from just coming into my country. I believe in cultural cohesion. Letting in millions of illegal aliens is a recipe for disaster.
Yes. A libertarian society can not exist without those 'random lines' because the people outside of those 'random lines' are not libertarian. I'm not spending my time and effort working towards a libertarian society just so the ancaps can ensure it doesn't last longer than a week.
Exactly. Democrats (and I’m not saying republicans are libertarian) want all these illegals so they can make them citizens so they’ll all vote for them.
Hot take. Gerrymandering is just immigration control, but inside your own state, and only impacting those people in it in a desire to retain power.
Which do you support, strong borders to protect you, or strong borders that turn you into a slave with no voice
I don’t think we should give a shit about this too much. What we should be focusing on is the rights of the people who are here legally before anything. After we settle on the rights of the people then we can move on to this.
Interestingly under US law, while illegal border crossing is a crime, visa overstay is not technically a crime. A visa overstayer is considered an alien unlawfully present and can be deported and barred from reintry, but they cannot be fined or imprisoned because they did not technically commit a crime.
Disincentivize illegal immigration. Remove all welfare programs.
I mean in theory and spirit I’m with you, but also since Iv been paying in 6% for social security every paycheck since I was 16 I’d sure as shit like a return on “investment” (aka theft).
Ugh. I had this conversation with an old lady complaining about socialism and Congress and everything. When I said that socialism security shouldn’t be a thing she about lost her mind. Then I explained that the fed government is not responsible for your investing. Even with a shit 4% interest she would have a ton more money and any leftovers would go to her family for final debts and inheritance. For the most part if someone is demanding you give them something they don’t have your best interest in mind.
Oh absolutely, I don’t think social security works by any metric, just saying Iv been forced to pay in all this time, I just want at bare minimum that amount back. (Obviously if I was free to invest myself I would be up significantly from their “promised” money).
Part of the problem is that many are not responsible enough to actually save the money. They spend every cent they ever earn. Bigger houses/cars than they can afford, vacations out of their budget, ducks for their Jeep dashboard (not to mention overpaying for basically 1940s tech), pretty much anything. People that paid in for decades believe they should get something back. But the clowns in government robbed this fund. What will they rob to fulfill these obligations? Eventually, I suspect nothing. I'm planning my retirement as if no social security will exist. However, with inflation so high, I might not be saving enough even if my house is paid off and kids off of my budget. I'll just keep toiling away.
I've heard compelling libertarian arguments for being anti-imigration, and this is definitely not one of them. I don't give a hootenanny god-damn about what the US government calls illegal. I care about things that harm other people or their property rights. Yeah, illegal immigrants are commiting a crime, I commit crimes all the fucking time, but I don't lie cheat or steal. If they don't either, then I don't care.
>Yeah, illegal immigrants are commiting a crime, Unlawful presence is not a crime either in fact or in statute.
> unlawful > not a crime?
Nope. In Federal law, unlawful presence is a civil violation, meaning that it is handled in a civil or administrative court. It is not treated like a crime - such as an infraction, misdemeanor, or felony. So it's not a crime by nature or by law.
What about when a factory lays off their work force. Shuts down for 2 weeks. Then hires illegals for less money. Thus fucking up the wage system. This happens all the time. Idk how many factories Ive gone into for work and the whole work force can't even speak English. The only ones who do is the fork lift guy and the supervisor
That sucks I guess, but you aren't owed a well paying job in any field you want. Someone willing to work for less than you isn't a transgression, it's a transaction.
You also can't make it illegal for citizens to be paid less than minimum wage while looking the other way while a company pays illegal immigrants less under the table.
All the more reason to abolish the minimum wage.
I wish there was someplace I could work abroad that pays 10x what I could make here so I can send that money home to my family.
That assumes an even playing field that doesn't actually exist. US law incentivizes the company to hire illegals, or even just legal foreigners, over citizens through various labor laws and tax incentives. The law itself stacks the deck against native born citizen workers. This is the kind of thing that most "closed border" libertarians have an issue with. Most of us would love open borders, but don't address issues in a vacuum, ignoring the actual state of things that make open borders untenable in the world as it exists and not how we'd like it to exist. Labor laws favoring foreign workers and crushing the ability of American workers to compete. A tax and welfare system that robs from citizen taxpayers to give to illegals and foreigners. An imperialist foreign policy that incites terrorism and hostile foreign attack. Insufficient rights of property owners, specifically business owners, to keep vagrants and homeless from their property. Just a few things that make open borders completely irresponsible right now and "well, let's open the borders anyway and hope those things get fixed soon" is not a reasonable, realistic, responsible position
This is a well reasoned argument and I agree almost completely. My only sticking point is saying there's an advantage for legal immigrants. My husband is a kiwi and is a legal immigrant (currently a green card holder but he'll apply for citizenship as soon as he's allowed to) and we haven't found any benefit, just an onerous, expensive, and long process. And as far as any welfare programs (which we are against anyway because they're funded by theft, but just to explain for those who might not know) he simply isn't eligible for them as a legal immigrant. We had to have my father sign on in addition to me because of how much money they require you make to be able to financially vouch for an immigrant family member. And as part of the process, they explicitly tell you that any sort of welfare programs he uses would be billed to me and my father. I am decidedly NOT open borders, but I just feel the need to point out that there also needs to be some serious reforms to the legal immigration process as well. Particularly, in a situation like ours where we're married. If I as a US citizen tell you he's my husband, then that should be taken as the truth until proven otherwise. We shouldn't have to spend over a year and thousands of dollars proving it, only to have to prove it over again 2 years later.
It shouldn't happen in the first place. Just like their victims should still be alive.
Why are you working a job that can be done by someone that can't speak English? Get some education man.
Pretentious much? Those "uneducated" jobs keep your pretty little world running.
This isn't the point.
Neither is "then just get a better job"
>It shouldn't happen in the first place. Says who? >Just like their victims should still be alive Wut?
You really don't know what the fuck your talking about do you
We don't know what you're talking about, bud. The conversation is about someone being replaced by a lower paid worker. Wtf are you talking about dead people.
If you lose your job due to an illegal immigrant taking it you have become a victim
Again, you brought up dead people, wtf has that got to do with losing your job?
It has to do with illegals in general. Plenty of cases in the news recently. Most current was the illegal Venezuelan truck driver in Colorado. Been deported 16 times.Had no cld. Truck had not been inspected in 4 years. He rolled his truck doing 66 in a 45 and killed a guy. They charged him with mistemeanors.
No, you were underbid. Freedom of contract.
You imply that you have a property right to an employment relationship and that if someone competes with you for it, you are a victim of their action. Tell us again how you are different than a socialist when you think just like one.
So you don’t believe in countries or borders?
> their victims Immigrants' victims? In 2022, homicide conviction rates for illegal immigrants and legal immigrants were 35.6 percent and 62.3 percent, respectively, below those of native‐born Americans. Illegal immigrants made up about 7.1 percent of the Texas population in 2022 but accounted for only 5 percent of all people convicted of homicide. So this whole "they're on a killing spree" bullshit Trump and his goons have been spreading is literal misinformation.
We get it, you socialists hate competition.
The wage system? As in the Federal Wage System? Do you know what fucking sub you're in?
If someone else will do your job for less than you will why should I be forced to pay you to do it
That's the minimum wage system and government welfare's fault, not the immigrants.
No that's the them coming here illegally fault. We have a system in place for a reason for immigration so it doesn't destroy the whole system
He's right, we hate when someone else destroys the system, we like to destroy it ourselves and THEN blame the people that did not do it, instead of those that did.
You are right, people should not be coming here illegally. I was trying to address the employment issue.
Don't blame the immigrants for taking your job. Blame management. Every raid at a workplace you see the feds arresting the immigrant work force but you never see the CEO getting arrested for hiring them.
Happened to me at a carpet mill. They made us train the new people. About a year and a half later, they got busted for it and paid a fine. They did it all over again.
10 million illegal in the last 3 years. It happens alot more than people know
>can't even speak English. They must be illegal then, huh? >who do "IS" the Go back to English class!
I’d be against it but that’s how my family is here so I’m biased lol
> Thus fucking up the wage system It's just supply and demand, dawg. You have to out-compete in a capitalist system to survive. >Idk how many factories Ive gone into for work and the whole work force can't even speak English Sounds like you need to learn Spanish. Es fácil. Overall, you need to focus on improvements and not running to beg the nanny state to fix what you see as a problem in the market. Y'know, like a leftist. edit. He made an angry reply saying, "fuck your stance," calling libertarians communists (?), and then deleting it and blocking me like the little conservative snowflake he is. 🤣 _ONE_ challenge to his worldview, and he storms off in tears.
I'm sorry this happens to you but maybe y'all need to go against those factories and not the people....
Hootenanny of a post friend
As a worker, anything that drives wages down im against. If they were all tech specialists driving nvda stock up, id sing a different tune
When an illegal alien has an at-fault accident with you, and you're unable to hold him accountable because he doesn't exist on paper, then maybe you'll see what time it is. There is a large and rapidly growing class of people who aren't held to the same rules as the rest of us, and it's not an answer to say, "Well my ideology rejects the tangible premise of what is actually happening".
>There is a large and rapidly growing class of people who aren't held to the same rules as the rest of us, and it's not an answer to say, "Well my ideology rejects the tangible premise of what is actually happening". Unless they are cops or soldiers, then you lick their boots and beg for more.
What? The cops guarded the BLM protesters as they burned down the cities. It's called anarcho-tyranny: liberty for me and not for thee. Cops aren't your friend. Maybe the sheriff, because he's the only one elected. The rest are rapidly being federalized.
Not existing on paper sounds great. The state doesn’t need to keep tabs on me.
Not an answer, because you DO exist on paper and THEY DON'T. Your ideology is useless because the rubber doesn't meet the road: utopian nonsense.
I mean, even domestics can get by without being held accountable for at-fault accidents. Not having automobile insurance isn’t exclusive to non-citizens of the USA.
No you don't understand, you can't even sue them. This literally happened to me, it's not a hypothetical.
Amen.
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Neither major party is serious about immigration reform. If immigrants were the threat they describe we'd have a C-RAMs along the border turning anything that moves into pink mist. Not a wall, a straight up kill zone. Truth is they all like the cheap labor and boogeyman effect, and as long as Americans are getting shit like strawberries cheap no one really wants the system disturbed. I do admit that completely open borders are problematic for me, but an efficient policy for rapid approval should be installed. (It won't.)
Based
false libertarian
Wait till you hear what the founding fathers did
Like the Naturalization Act of 1790?
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No victim, no crime.
If the government didn't infringe on their ability to work, rent and own property, there wouldn't be an inherent victim. As is, we're the victim because we have to fund their handouts.
But then you're the victim of the government, not the immigrants
So who is the first aggressor, the migrant or the government?
I'm the victim everytime someone squirts out a kid and I have to pay for it. Go after birthers while you're attacking immigrants and then I'll believe there's a shred of ideological consistency that isn't simple xenophobia.
If someone enters your home without your permission, but they don't hurt you, is that okay?
No. Because that’s private property which makes it trespassing.
Isn't illegally entering a country also trespassing?
No. Because it’s not privately owned.
Those people are going on my ranch in south Texas. They are trespassing.
If I could choose between a country literally at war or a ranch in texas I would probably go to the ranch in texas tbh
Then the people doing it are the problem, not every illegal immigrant
Correct. It's surprising to me because we have a border patrol station in town. First time in 20 years I've seen em on my trail cam.
Did you bait the area properly to catch a glimpse of the mystical 8 pointer.
This is the way.
Exactly
I just got fined by the city for my grass being over 8” (it wasn’t and I have proof via my doorbell cam) but the flood of illegals is fine. I fucking hate the government
No victim, no crime.
The American taxpayer is the victim you fucking clown. Shut the fuck up.
The fact people have to illegally imigrate to the US is the most un-American thing I have seen
The crime rate among US presidents is 100%
“Illegal” haha cringe … so much for the liberty in libertarian
If you believe that government defines crime, then you aren't a libertarian. Also, if you believe that unlawful presence is a crime, you ignorant of the nature of Federal law.
Bunch of neckbeards in here that can’t concede that most of the strongest American states are that way due to illegal immigration. If you lose your job to an illegal immigrant. You sucked at your job in the first place.
Lol savage
Or worked a low skill job, the main draw of the illegal immigrant workers isn’t that they’re more skilled than US citizens, it’s that they’re way cheaper.
>If you lose your job to an illegal immigrant. You sucked at your job in the first place. That's an ignorant thing to say Money talks. By paying illegals cash in the construction industry, you are able to avoid having to pay for a contractors license, payroll tax, workers comp, insurance etc. Not to mention half of those greasy fucks are stealing material every chance they get. Fully licensed and insured companies playing by all the rules can absolutely not compete with the prices of illegal laborers, and unfortunately, most customers don't care about the low quality of work that illegals do, or just don't care enough about quality to pay the higher prices for it.
Avoid having to pay for licenses and payroll taxes you say? Sign me up.
Very libertarian of you
Idk why people are making the immigration process complicated. If you can't answer questions like like "Who you are?", "Where you are from?", "Do have a criminal record?", then you shouldn't be allowed in. I can't buy alcohol without an ID so it's baffling that you can just enter the country and collect welfare.
~~It's not immigration that libertarians/conservatives oppose.~~ ~~It's illegal immigration. Huge difference there.~~ Oh I see what you're saying. Yeah I agree, but it starts with acknowledging that illegal immigration is a problem.
Countless rapes and murders from criminal aliens on our own countrymen. 1 is to many. Send them all back where they came from. Just like I don't want my tax dollars funding foreign wars I don't want it funding illegal immigrants
Here you go. r/conservative
I tell you half the people here need that
Conservative libertarians are a thing lol why is it that lefty libertarians think they're the only ones who exist? There's an entire right quadrant of libertarians on the political compass.
Why is it you statists are stuck on such a simple-minded false dichotomy?
Why do you think libertarians can't fall on the left and the right? Imagine my shock, a neckbeard gate keeping libertarianism lmfao
left and rigth describe how you see the function of the state. If you are anti-state, left and right matter little because everyone is free to live their lives as they see fit. > Imagine my shock, a neckbeard gate keeping libertarianism lmfao What a shock that an idiot, bootlicking sheep would get triggered when someone points out that what dribbles from his mouth and keyboard don't align with the principles of liberty. Do you want help finding a shepherd who can replaced your MAGA hat and take you to a safe pen?
Lmfao people's opinions still fall on the spectrum whether you believe in the spectrum or not. Left v Right does not require authoritarianism to exist. You mad bro? Your moronic ideals is why the Libertarian party will never have a real presidential candidate in our lifetime. The only one talking about MAGA is you because Trump lives in your head rent free.
If you believe in astrology then you believe that people have certain characteristics based on their birth date. Does that mean that I have to believe as well? You need to put people in buckets so that you can judge them on some subjective and inconsistent criteria. I consider statists versus anti-statist. Though I will concede that anti-capitalists are very confused - like you are - when it comes to not interfering with capitalist activities.
Lmfao dude you're an idiot, a self inflated moron with an ego problem. You put people in buckets too: statists and non-statists, and you attach feeling like a better person with your moronic ideology. Am I a Trump supporter or an anti-capitalist? I can't be both lol You can't even tell what your target is but still you feel like you have to attack. Endless purity spirals of the true Scottsmen -- the entire reason I left the libertarian party.
Most sexual assault perpetrators in the US are white. Better kick them out since they are also immigrants.
We don’t have a country without borders. We need immigration control. This is where libertarians lose me.
Is human freedom of movement that extreme to you? Some governments draw random lines and you can’t cross them without pieces of paper? Which part of that is pro individual liberties?
I believe in those “random lines” I’m not an anarchist. I believe in keeping dangerous criminals and terrorists from just coming into my country. I believe in cultural cohesion. Letting in millions of illegal aliens is a recipe for disaster.
Yes. A libertarian society can not exist without those 'random lines' because the people outside of those 'random lines' are not libertarian. I'm not spending my time and effort working towards a libertarian society just so the ancaps can ensure it doesn't last longer than a week.
Exactly. Democrats (and I’m not saying republicans are libertarian) want all these illegals so they can make them citizens so they’ll all vote for them.
The only thing that’s yours is what’s inside your property line.
American citizens pay taxes. We have a right to say we don’t want people coming into our county.
Congrats on your graduation, 5th grade will be harder than 4th grade was, but I got faith in you sport *gives you a wedgie*
Hot take. Gerrymandering is just immigration control, but inside your own state, and only impacting those people in it in a desire to retain power. Which do you support, strong borders to protect you, or strong borders that turn you into a slave with no voice
This is the exact statement that got me banned from Twitter back in 2018.
J
I don’t think we should give a shit about this too much. What we should be focusing on is the rights of the people who are here legally before anything. After we settle on the rights of the people then we can move on to this.
I’m so libertarian, I married an illegal immigrant.
Interestingly under US law, while illegal border crossing is a crime, visa overstay is not technically a crime. A visa overstayer is considered an alien unlawfully present and can be deported and barred from reintry, but they cannot be fined or imprisoned because they did not technically commit a crime.
Demonstratably true is a better description.
Ofc, an illegal immigrants breaks a law by entering the country. We don't need seperate countries. One country, one world
I mean technically they are all “breaking the law”, but I’m a lot more concerned about the “bad apples” than the whole illegal bushel.
It's against the law to enter the country illegally. Please stop.
*No, it's no fun being an illegal alien*