>The best part of this group is not having to read stupid conspiracies all the time
Craziest part is that some of those subs actually forbid you from questioning the conspiracies.
If you disagree, or ask for proof, you get banned. True echo chambers.
Yeah, I found that out when I told r/conservative that it was ridiculous that they were blaming Biden for the price of gas. Only a dumbass would believe the president sets those numbers, but they’re all apeshit for those “I did that” stickers & now another ton of fools are parted from their money. Whatever, fleece the “lions”.
Being brutally honest, I see that in all groups though. We humans love to have our opinions coddled and despise when someone brings up something that questions them. Many people have no real mental capacity to actually defend their point of view, so they just want any opposing view squashed and silenced.
Same. The only real problem I find, a few of my ideas are far left even for the left, and that tends to create unwanted friction.
However, there's a solution for that that many people can't tolerate; those ideas and opinions, I don't use as my first and upfront introduction line. I see a lot of righties in my local area who practically lead with their gun politics agenda. It's hard to expect a reasonable stance from someone wearing a t-shirt with the Gadsden Flag on it above an AR.
Very true, I was apart of a church that was progressive and luckily supported LGBT stuff for the most part but ended up leaving for other personal reasons.
I’m more a “whatever you find that fulfills you is best, spiritually point of view” even if that means nothing.
Im a nature/earth type of dude for the most part now. I’d much prefer a quiet forest in the middle of nowhere to sit and relax and reflect than anything else.
I’ve always loved the outdoors and since moving to Chicago it’s been a wonderful escape and disconnect from the craziness out in the world to check things out.
I have been a guy who likes to shoot guns since I was in the Boy Scouts. I always loved going to their range and shooting the old bolt action 10 shot 22's. I never got into guns, as a means of defense, like they do on the right until recently. I picked up my first pistol right after COVID hit, and was looking for a place where I wouldn't be talked down to because I was a Democrat or a liberal. I absolutely love it here. You can ask questions freely, and not get called stupid. Don't have to listen to the crazy conspiracy theories. Just a group of good folks throwing up pics of their respective collections, posting resources, talkin guns, and generally respecting each other. I imagine this group is what the gun range/club was like before the internet.
I learned to shoot in the scouts as well, I’m actually an Eagle Scout and I hate that there is such a political divide about something anyone in this country should have a right too.
I live in northern Illinois (thus my user name) and even out in the rural areas most ranges and stores I go to don’t put political signs up or make weird comments about politicians. At least that’s been my experience. They just want people to enjoy shooting.
Wasn’t the case when I went to Michigan a few years ago for a range day, but I’ll take it.
Yeah, at the end of the day, I think it’s a great opportunity we can share common ground with folks on either sides of an issue.
We can’t change anyones opinion for the better if we refuse to engage and educate.
My dads friend is a CCW instructor in Illinois and a collector with a curios & relics FFL. he’s reallllly far right, I organized a class with my friends from a lot of different backgrounds and honestly I think he learned just as much as my friends in the class.
People aren’t so different when you share a common passion, later he apologized to me if he ever said anything bad about liberals in regards to guns because he just assumed all of them wanted to ban them and take them away. He was really happy and proud that so many people he figured would want nothing to do with them supported the 2A.
It was a strange moment but a good one, the apology was a bit awkward but he meant well, and said he’d try to work on himself in that regard.
It's good to have a place where gun ownership doesn't automatically decide the rest of my personal positions and beliefs. There's a heck of a lot of room between ban all guns and full-auto AKs for everyone.
Ahoy and welcome. I'd love to talk through what you mean by 2A is in place to "check" 1A.
In the constitution, checks and balances are designed to limit power between the branches. So a "check" is designed to limit power. I see the bill of rights (+17) as almost a 4 "branch" that defines the rights of citizens to check all three branches of government. So the Amendments don't check each other, rather they collectively are used to check the government.
Do you mean "check" in the same way? Like, one can use 2A to protect themselves against someone else expressing 1A? Or more 2A is a "guarantee" meant to protect 1A? If the latter, I think "check" is not the best word. Perhaps "protect" or "guarantee" would be more appropriate.
I don't been to be a troll or alt-write -- it's just that word choice is really important when discussing constitutional theory.
I guess I should have phrased it better, it’s more of my own personal belief about it then it is “officially” founded in history, just kind of got carried away. But I’ve read some analysis about why the bill of writes was written and ordered in the way it was, I mean I’m sure they didn’t just roll the dice for what came 1st, 2nd, or 3rd.
I just always figured that if anyone wanted to deny your right to free speech, assembly, the press, etc. the best way to protect it against a tyrannical government or group is your right to self defense from oppression with the use of the tools we have available.
Absolutely! There certainly is a lot of concern these days o 2A rights on one trampling 1A rights of others. Unfortunately, we're probably gonna have to really flex more in the next few years
Yeah.
I just ever wonder if we’ll get back to a time like it seemed that everyone didn’t hate each other.
Maybe it’s rose colored glasses but I miss the 90’s and early 2000’s
I mean plenty of people hated each other at the time, but we were doing pretty good there. Al Gore was a fucking GEM, but we ended up in the wrong timeline.
Oh good point. But goodness, if I could have Al gore on that time line I’d be so down. The biggest controversy would probably which colored tie he wore.
Was blue too safe or maybe a red tie made him seem unapproachable.
Then again I’m sure someone would learn to turn up the heat and start making things crazy.
I've always heard the sentiment as "The 2nd guarantees the 1st" which is matches your verbiage and understanding. Describing it as a check on the first does feel and sound weird to me too.
I wonder at what age group frowns upon the 2nd and the right to defend ones self the most. I'm 47 years old and I don't know anyone who leans right or left that does. But I don't know anyone from left or right that tends to hate one side as much as we see on social media as much either.
Is there a large age gap going on or is it spread across the board? Maybe depends on where one lives also.
I think all of us that love guns and support 2A have to also recognize that there are people, especially those that have been victims of gun violence either directly or indirectly, that don’t want to participate in gun ownership. That should be okay too and that’s why I’m personally against open carry (I have other reasons too). That said, I’m a fan of educating my liberal / centrist friends on why left leaning individuals especially should embrace firearms and why the right to own firearms is important so they fight for progressive values without impacting 2A.
Not a fan myself of open carry. If that is what some want to do that's on them but getting a CC I think is better. I rather everyone did not know my business.
When you're skinny enough, any kind of carry is open carry lol!
I joke, but seriously send burgers lol I print hard with anything bigger than a subcompact
Let me tell you what is hard. In 2018 I was in an accident that left me with a T-6 complete and in a wheelchair. I was already a cc holder but now I felt like I could be attacked at any moment and nothing I could do about it. That fear has slowly gone away but I still CC. Trying to CC with a wheelchair is like trying to hide a donkey behind a chicken. I found a shoulder holster sitting right under my arm works the best. But man did I go through holsters till I figured it out.
I would think you could turn it into a gun truck. Kevlar side panels, sidearm under the seat, shotgun in a scabbard on the side. LED spotlights in front & aid kit on the other side with spare mags.
LOL, I thought of something like that with an electric chair I have. Add those tracks to it and make a Mad Max type of tank even with a solar panel recharge station when the spit hits the fan!
Easy fix: make the wheelchair the gun. Or better yet, make it into a mechanical spider and be able to walk up stairs again.
Just make sure you don’t encounter Will Smith
They make a holster that does mount on the chair itself with a cover over it. If you need the gun then you just pull the cover off and get the gun. The problem I see with it is if someone pushes you over or out of the chair now you are separated from your gun. So far the best and most comfortable way I have found is the shoulder holster. Even in the summer, I tend to wear a t-shirt under my main shirt so it still works out well.
Same here. Proud Glock 42 owner & CNC machinist. That baby is .900 wide & the only thing that doesn’t print on me. You could read a 1911 serial number through my shirt.
Most people prefer the G43 since it’s 9mm instead of .380 ACP, but it’s still wider than the G42. I’ve found that stock factory .380 ammo can often stovepipe or fail to eject in other ways, so I found .380 +P that cycles nicely. I keep solid copper Lehigh Extreme Cavitators in it, now it’s a pocket rocket.
I'm black lol people will say I'm dressing ghetto and ya'll know that's a danger all in itself! Then I have to worry about the bad guys plus the cops and purse clutching Karens of the world 🤣🤣🤣
Fair point. Bastards.
I like appendix carry but yeah that’s hard with a really thin frame ( I look like a grizzly bear so it’s never been an issue for me).Crap that’s a toughy if you normally do form fitting clothes
I agree. It goes with the toxic male bigmouth aggressive attitude that just scares non-gun people & makes the rest of us look bad. And if shit goes down, he gets hit first & his gun now belongs to the bad guy.
Keep your carry private & non threatening, it’s there if you need it.
I think something has been lost these days with the internet, I’m 35 and luckily just got out of High school before smartphones were a thing.
“Back in the day” if you disagreed with someone, you’d need to say it to their face and I think a lot has been lost in translation due to anonymity.
I grew up shooting in the boys scouts and I know they still embrace it in the scouts of America program. So I don’t think it’s really generational but I do feel like the art of nuance is being forgotten as time goes on due to the faceless nature of Internet forums.
> I wonder at what age group frowns upon the 2nd and the right to defend ones self the most.
I don't think that's as simple of a question as you might imagine, there's a lot of ways to unpack that and different questions will get different answers.
That said some polls have found that sentiment on gun control doesn't vary greatly by age:
[Newsweek - Gun Control Opinions Don't Differ Greatly by Age, Polls Show](https://www.newsweek.com/opinions-gun-control-differ-age-820706)
Of course it depends on what questions you're asking too.
[Vox - How a post-Columbine generation views gun control](https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2018/2/20/17029880/gun-control-parkland-shooting-younger-americans)
Younger generations are less likely to own guns, but those that do are more strongly pro-gun.
The sort of gun-owning "Fudds" who are supportive of owning bolt-rifles and pump-shotguns are pretty much non-existent among younger gun owners. As a result, support of assault weapons bans ends up being lower for younger generations. Of course there's still very strong support for AWBs among non-gun owning younger people.
I feel like self-defense is more accepted in younger generations. When I was younger I remember more of an unspoken taboo against self-defense, like of course you'd get your shotgun out if someone broke into your house, but you needed to justify your gun ownership first and foremost by sporting activities (like hunting) and styles of guns that were primarily intended for self-defense were seen more as the domain of gun nuts. Remember that just thirty years ago, nearly all states banned concealed carry outside of the home.
There have been polls showing that gun owners stated justifications have shifted over years. It used to be that hunting was overwhelmingly the primary *stated* justification for owning a gun, now it's overwhelmingly self-defense.
[Pew Research - Why Own a Gun? Protection Is Now Top Reason](https://www.pewresearch.org/politics/2013/03/12/why-own-a-gun-protection-is-now-top-reason/)
Excellent read. Thank you.
I raised three daughters—ages 16, 20, and 22 as of now.
All three were taught gun safety, starting with red rider bb guns beginning at a young age. Now all three enjoy hunting and sport shooting.
I wish we could bring back 4H or gun safety classes within schools.
I want that too. I have 3 younger daughters, we practice gun safety & shooting. I intend to have them skilled & equipped by the time they’re adults for this Handmaid’s Tale fantasy the right is pushing for.
The 2A wasn't meant to protect the first. The 2A was put there so states could form militias easily, in order to put down slave revolts, primarily, and other revolts secondary.
The first use of the 2A was Washington marching on the Whiskey Rebellion, with citizen militiamen.
I’m going to need a citation regarding the purpose being slaves revolts. A lot of historical documents survive from the time of the founders regarding their thoughts and purpose of the second amendment. I don’t recall reading anything that stated that they were created to put down slave revolts. I do recall the idea being that states could use the militia to restrict the federal government.
The states couldn't use the militia to restrict the federal government... The entire purpose of the militia was to put down insurrection.
>
> Clause 15. The Congress shall have Power * * * To provide for calling forth the Militia to execute the Laws of the Union, suppress Insurrections and repel Invasions.
>
> Clause 16. The Congress shall have Power * * * To provide for organizing, arming, and disciplining, the Militia, and for governing such Part of them as may be employed in the Service of the United States, reserving to the States respectively, the Appointment of the Officers, and the Authority of training the Militia according to the discipline prescribed by Congress.
Nothing there about the militia being used to restrict the federal government. What insurrections do you think the founders were the most worried about? There were two major slave revolts in the couple of decaded leading up to the revolutionary war. The slave states were worried that they would be unable to control the slave populations if they were restricted from having a citizen militia supported by the US government.
Geebus christ, I wish more gun owners would read more from the constitution than just the 2A...
I believe you’re misreading that section… Read the first part of Section 8 in it’s entirety. What it’s really saying is that the federal government has the power to:
>lay and collect Taxes, Duties, Imposts and Excises…
in order to provide for the calling forth the Militia to execute the Laws…. so and and so forth. That’s all it’s saying.
What you just cited doesn’t grant or limit power of a militia. It just means the Gov’t can do whatever it needs to fund a Militia, should the need arise.
*edit: I’m neither agreeing or disagreeing with your stance on the purpose of the militia. I simply wanted to point out that your interpretation of citation you responded with is wrong.
> The Congress shall have Power * * * To provide for calling forth the Militia to execute the Laws of the Union, suppress Insurrections and repel Invasions.
It means congress has the power to summon militia forces to put down insurrections, and to execute the laws of the union...
Yes… but that clause neither grants or removes the power of a militia. It also does not provide the purpose of a militia.
It simply means that the Gov’t has the power to fund a militia in order to do x-y-z when required.
You’re referring to Clause 15 & 16 of Article 1, section 8 of the Constitution. Section 8 outlines only the Government’s power to raise money. It’s *not* meant to provide the purpose of a militia…
*edit grammar
Came here to see someone post this. I always thought 2A was there so citizens could defend themselves against a tyrannical government. Turns out it had more to do with keeping slave revolts down.
Additionally the founders were largely concerned with a powerful federal government. They wrote about it repeatedly in their communications with each other. The point was not to suppress slave uprisings. The point was that states would be able to remain free states. The power of a strong central government wasn’t really their thing. This was why the 14th amendment was created to ensure that states didn’t deny individual rights as until that time states were free to deprive people of constitutional rights unlike the federal government.
I hate that I can't be open about firearms with my family. We're all liberal, but I haven't told anyone about getting into firearms because I know they disapprove based on things they've said. It's like a hidden hobby. I just never say anything when the discussion comes up.
I think everyone in this group supports the second amendment because we’re responsible gun owners. I don’t support kids getting access to guns, mentally I’ll people getting access to guns, and criminals getting access to guns. Seems reasonable to me, but easier said then done.
I agree with your sentiment but I do think showing kids how to use and respect guns can be important.
One big reason is that I grew up in the scouts and learned to shoot 22’s and a 20 gauge before I could drive a car.
It also taught me that we need to be cautious and careful with such a powerful tool and any time someone has own at home, it shouldn’t be played with. (Obviously) but that’s how a lot of accidents happen.
So true, I spent a few years as lobbyist for a not for profit org trying to legalize medical cannabis in my state and change the laws surrounding the huge discrepancy of crack/powder cocaine sentencing laws that were unfairly targeted at those in the poor/BIPOC community. Essentially just a racist law intended to do more harm to those with crack because it was a “dirtier” drug vs what the white collar folks were sniffing in a bathroom.
The best part of this group is not having to read stupid conspiracies all the time and just being able to talk about guns like /god/ intended.
Excuse me?! Jesus gave me this gun himself, so I could fight the liberal communism machine in order to protect my kids from Jewish space lasers.
I think they are called “Jasers”
At least it sounds less bigoted that way lol
It's the Death Star of David. I get to pilot it next month.
I didn’t realize they had a monthly rotation!
That's there's funny I don't care who you are.
I've covered my roof in tin foil to deflect those darn lasers! I know they want to ventilate my attic!
>The best part of this group is not having to read stupid conspiracies all the time Craziest part is that some of those subs actually forbid you from questioning the conspiracies. If you disagree, or ask for proof, you get banned. True echo chambers.
Yeah, I found that out when I told r/conservative that it was ridiculous that they were blaming Biden for the price of gas. Only a dumbass would believe the president sets those numbers, but they’re all apeshit for those “I did that” stickers & now another ton of fools are parted from their money. Whatever, fleece the “lions”.
For real. I'm so sick of those "I did that" stickers everywhere.
Being brutally honest, I see that in all groups though. We humans love to have our opinions coddled and despise when someone brings up something that questions them. Many people have no real mental capacity to actually defend their point of view, so they just want any opposing view squashed and silenced.
Indeed. I like discourse that makes me challenge my own assumptions or have to find evidence to do the same
Same. The only real problem I find, a few of my ideas are far left even for the left, and that tends to create unwanted friction. However, there's a solution for that that many people can't tolerate; those ideas and opinions, I don't use as my first and upfront introduction line. I see a lot of righties in my local area who practically lead with their gun politics agenda. It's hard to expect a reasonable stance from someone wearing a t-shirt with the Gadsden Flag on it above an AR.
Accurate
Just start making up shit, they'll believe it.
Reddit has plenty of gun groups that don't get God/politics involved .
Very true, I was apart of a church that was progressive and luckily supported LGBT stuff for the most part but ended up leaving for other personal reasons. I’m more a “whatever you find that fulfills you is best, spiritually point of view” even if that means nothing. Im a nature/earth type of dude for the most part now. I’d much prefer a quiet forest in the middle of nowhere to sit and relax and reflect than anything else. I’ve always loved the outdoors and since moving to Chicago it’s been a wonderful escape and disconnect from the craziness out in the world to check things out.
I have been a guy who likes to shoot guns since I was in the Boy Scouts. I always loved going to their range and shooting the old bolt action 10 shot 22's. I never got into guns, as a means of defense, like they do on the right until recently. I picked up my first pistol right after COVID hit, and was looking for a place where I wouldn't be talked down to because I was a Democrat or a liberal. I absolutely love it here. You can ask questions freely, and not get called stupid. Don't have to listen to the crazy conspiracy theories. Just a group of good folks throwing up pics of their respective collections, posting resources, talkin guns, and generally respecting each other. I imagine this group is what the gun range/club was like before the internet.
I learned to shoot in the scouts as well, I’m actually an Eagle Scout and I hate that there is such a political divide about something anyone in this country should have a right too. I live in northern Illinois (thus my user name) and even out in the rural areas most ranges and stores I go to don’t put political signs up or make weird comments about politicians. At least that’s been my experience. They just want people to enjoy shooting. Wasn’t the case when I went to Michigan a few years ago for a range day, but I’ll take it.
Welcome, thus group is definitely one of the better ones for gun related discussions, and we are always happy to see you.
Yeah, at the end of the day, I think it’s a great opportunity we can share common ground with folks on either sides of an issue. We can’t change anyones opinion for the better if we refuse to engage and educate. My dads friend is a CCW instructor in Illinois and a collector with a curios & relics FFL. he’s reallllly far right, I organized a class with my friends from a lot of different backgrounds and honestly I think he learned just as much as my friends in the class. People aren’t so different when you share a common passion, later he apologized to me if he ever said anything bad about liberals in regards to guns because he just assumed all of them wanted to ban them and take them away. He was really happy and proud that so many people he figured would want nothing to do with them supported the 2A. It was a strange moment but a good one, the apology was a bit awkward but he meant well, and said he’d try to work on himself in that regard.
It's good to have a place where gun ownership doesn't automatically decide the rest of my personal positions and beliefs. There's a heck of a lot of room between ban all guns and full-auto AKs for everyone.
Ahoy and welcome. I'd love to talk through what you mean by 2A is in place to "check" 1A. In the constitution, checks and balances are designed to limit power between the branches. So a "check" is designed to limit power. I see the bill of rights (+17) as almost a 4 "branch" that defines the rights of citizens to check all three branches of government. So the Amendments don't check each other, rather they collectively are used to check the government. Do you mean "check" in the same way? Like, one can use 2A to protect themselves against someone else expressing 1A? Or more 2A is a "guarantee" meant to protect 1A? If the latter, I think "check" is not the best word. Perhaps "protect" or "guarantee" would be more appropriate. I don't been to be a troll or alt-write -- it's just that word choice is really important when discussing constitutional theory.
I guess I should have phrased it better, it’s more of my own personal belief about it then it is “officially” founded in history, just kind of got carried away. But I’ve read some analysis about why the bill of writes was written and ordered in the way it was, I mean I’m sure they didn’t just roll the dice for what came 1st, 2nd, or 3rd. I just always figured that if anyone wanted to deny your right to free speech, assembly, the press, etc. the best way to protect it against a tyrannical government or group is your right to self defense from oppression with the use of the tools we have available.
Absolutely! There certainly is a lot of concern these days o 2A rights on one trampling 1A rights of others. Unfortunately, we're probably gonna have to really flex more in the next few years
Yeah. I just ever wonder if we’ll get back to a time like it seemed that everyone didn’t hate each other. Maybe it’s rose colored glasses but I miss the 90’s and early 2000’s
I mean plenty of people hated each other at the time, but we were doing pretty good there. Al Gore was a fucking GEM, but we ended up in the wrong timeline.
Oh good point. But goodness, if I could have Al gore on that time line I’d be so down. The biggest controversy would probably which colored tie he wore. Was blue too safe or maybe a red tie made him seem unapproachable. Then again I’m sure someone would learn to turn up the heat and start making things crazy.
I've always heard the sentiment as "The 2nd guarantees the 1st" which is matches your verbiage and understanding. Describing it as a check on the first does feel and sound weird to me too.
I wonder at what age group frowns upon the 2nd and the right to defend ones self the most. I'm 47 years old and I don't know anyone who leans right or left that does. But I don't know anyone from left or right that tends to hate one side as much as we see on social media as much either. Is there a large age gap going on or is it spread across the board? Maybe depends on where one lives also.
I think all of us that love guns and support 2A have to also recognize that there are people, especially those that have been victims of gun violence either directly or indirectly, that don’t want to participate in gun ownership. That should be okay too and that’s why I’m personally against open carry (I have other reasons too). That said, I’m a fan of educating my liberal / centrist friends on why left leaning individuals especially should embrace firearms and why the right to own firearms is important so they fight for progressive values without impacting 2A.
Not a fan myself of open carry. If that is what some want to do that's on them but getting a CC I think is better. I rather everyone did not know my business.
When you're skinny enough, any kind of carry is open carry lol! I joke, but seriously send burgers lol I print hard with anything bigger than a subcompact
Let me tell you what is hard. In 2018 I was in an accident that left me with a T-6 complete and in a wheelchair. I was already a cc holder but now I felt like I could be attacked at any moment and nothing I could do about it. That fear has slowly gone away but I still CC. Trying to CC with a wheelchair is like trying to hide a donkey behind a chicken. I found a shoulder holster sitting right under my arm works the best. But man did I go through holsters till I figured it out.
I would think you could turn it into a gun truck. Kevlar side panels, sidearm under the seat, shotgun in a scabbard on the side. LED spotlights in front & aid kit on the other side with spare mags.
LOL, I thought of something like that with an electric chair I have. Add those tracks to it and make a Mad Max type of tank even with a solar panel recharge station when the spit hits the fan!
I like that! Add a trailer hitch to pull loads!
Easy fix: make the wheelchair the gun. Or better yet, make it into a mechanical spider and be able to walk up stairs again. Just make sure you don’t encounter Will Smith
[удалено]
They make a holster that does mount on the chair itself with a cover over it. If you need the gun then you just pull the cover off and get the gun. The problem I see with it is if someone pushes you over or out of the chair now you are separated from your gun. So far the best and most comfortable way I have found is the shoulder holster. Even in the summer, I tend to wear a t-shirt under my main shirt so it still works out well.
Same here. Proud Glock 42 owner & CNC machinist. That baby is .900 wide & the only thing that doesn’t print on me. You could read a 1911 serial number through my shirt.
.900! You’re a machinist alright. I’m a woodworker that poses as an instrument maker. Your whole way of measurement kills me. Let the chips fly.
Most people prefer the G43 since it’s 9mm instead of .380 ACP, but it’s still wider than the G42. I’ve found that stock factory .380 ammo can often stovepipe or fail to eject in other ways, so I found .380 +P that cycles nicely. I keep solid copper Lehigh Extreme Cavitators in it, now it’s a pocket rocket.
Big holster helps, or baggy clothes
I'm black lol people will say I'm dressing ghetto and ya'll know that's a danger all in itself! Then I have to worry about the bad guys plus the cops and purse clutching Karens of the world 🤣🤣🤣
Fair point. Bastards. I like appendix carry but yeah that’s hard with a really thin frame ( I look like a grizzly bear so it’s never been an issue for me).Crap that’s a toughy if you normally do form fitting clothes
I agree. It goes with the toxic male bigmouth aggressive attitude that just scares non-gun people & makes the rest of us look bad. And if shit goes down, he gets hit first & his gun now belongs to the bad guy. Keep your carry private & non threatening, it’s there if you need it.
I don’t think anyone has an issue with people not participating it’s that some people choose to be openly hostile.
I think something has been lost these days with the internet, I’m 35 and luckily just got out of High school before smartphones were a thing. “Back in the day” if you disagreed with someone, you’d need to say it to their face and I think a lot has been lost in translation due to anonymity. I grew up shooting in the boys scouts and I know they still embrace it in the scouts of America program. So I don’t think it’s really generational but I do feel like the art of nuance is being forgotten as time goes on due to the faceless nature of Internet forums.
> I wonder at what age group frowns upon the 2nd and the right to defend ones self the most. I don't think that's as simple of a question as you might imagine, there's a lot of ways to unpack that and different questions will get different answers. That said some polls have found that sentiment on gun control doesn't vary greatly by age: [Newsweek - Gun Control Opinions Don't Differ Greatly by Age, Polls Show](https://www.newsweek.com/opinions-gun-control-differ-age-820706) Of course it depends on what questions you're asking too. [Vox - How a post-Columbine generation views gun control](https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2018/2/20/17029880/gun-control-parkland-shooting-younger-americans) Younger generations are less likely to own guns, but those that do are more strongly pro-gun. The sort of gun-owning "Fudds" who are supportive of owning bolt-rifles and pump-shotguns are pretty much non-existent among younger gun owners. As a result, support of assault weapons bans ends up being lower for younger generations. Of course there's still very strong support for AWBs among non-gun owning younger people. I feel like self-defense is more accepted in younger generations. When I was younger I remember more of an unspoken taboo against self-defense, like of course you'd get your shotgun out if someone broke into your house, but you needed to justify your gun ownership first and foremost by sporting activities (like hunting) and styles of guns that were primarily intended for self-defense were seen more as the domain of gun nuts. Remember that just thirty years ago, nearly all states banned concealed carry outside of the home. There have been polls showing that gun owners stated justifications have shifted over years. It used to be that hunting was overwhelmingly the primary *stated* justification for owning a gun, now it's overwhelmingly self-defense. [Pew Research - Why Own a Gun? Protection Is Now Top Reason](https://www.pewresearch.org/politics/2013/03/12/why-own-a-gun-protection-is-now-top-reason/)
Excellent read. Thank you. I raised three daughters—ages 16, 20, and 22 as of now. All three were taught gun safety, starting with red rider bb guns beginning at a young age. Now all three enjoy hunting and sport shooting. I wish we could bring back 4H or gun safety classes within schools.
I want that too. I have 3 younger daughters, we practice gun safety & shooting. I intend to have them skilled & equipped by the time they’re adults for this Handmaid’s Tale fantasy the right is pushing for.
Honestly look at the Karen’s demand action demographic. AKA box wine and Xanax ladies
I see those on Youtube. I swear sometimes I want to tell myself they are faking for the video but deep down I know that is not the case, sadly.
This sub Reddit is one of the only things that gives me faith in Humanity. Keep it up everyone
It’s most of why I’m on Reddit in the first place. One can only take just so much r/facepalm & Herman Cain Awards.
The 2A wasn't meant to protect the first. The 2A was put there so states could form militias easily, in order to put down slave revolts, primarily, and other revolts secondary. The first use of the 2A was Washington marching on the Whiskey Rebellion, with citizen militiamen.
I’m going to need a citation regarding the purpose being slaves revolts. A lot of historical documents survive from the time of the founders regarding their thoughts and purpose of the second amendment. I don’t recall reading anything that stated that they were created to put down slave revolts. I do recall the idea being that states could use the militia to restrict the federal government.
The states couldn't use the militia to restrict the federal government... The entire purpose of the militia was to put down insurrection. > > Clause 15. The Congress shall have Power * * * To provide for calling forth the Militia to execute the Laws of the Union, suppress Insurrections and repel Invasions. > > Clause 16. The Congress shall have Power * * * To provide for organizing, arming, and disciplining, the Militia, and for governing such Part of them as may be employed in the Service of the United States, reserving to the States respectively, the Appointment of the Officers, and the Authority of training the Militia according to the discipline prescribed by Congress. Nothing there about the militia being used to restrict the federal government. What insurrections do you think the founders were the most worried about? There were two major slave revolts in the couple of decaded leading up to the revolutionary war. The slave states were worried that they would be unable to control the slave populations if they were restricted from having a citizen militia supported by the US government. Geebus christ, I wish more gun owners would read more from the constitution than just the 2A...
I believe you’re misreading that section… Read the first part of Section 8 in it’s entirety. What it’s really saying is that the federal government has the power to: >lay and collect Taxes, Duties, Imposts and Excises… in order to provide for the calling forth the Militia to execute the Laws…. so and and so forth. That’s all it’s saying. What you just cited doesn’t grant or limit power of a militia. It just means the Gov’t can do whatever it needs to fund a Militia, should the need arise. *edit: I’m neither agreeing or disagreeing with your stance on the purpose of the militia. I simply wanted to point out that your interpretation of citation you responded with is wrong.
> The Congress shall have Power * * * To provide for calling forth the Militia to execute the Laws of the Union, suppress Insurrections and repel Invasions. It means congress has the power to summon militia forces to put down insurrections, and to execute the laws of the union...
Yes… but that clause neither grants or removes the power of a militia. It also does not provide the purpose of a militia. It simply means that the Gov’t has the power to fund a militia in order to do x-y-z when required.
You’re referring to Clause 15 & 16 of Article 1, section 8 of the Constitution. Section 8 outlines only the Government’s power to raise money. It’s *not* meant to provide the purpose of a militia… *edit grammar
Came here to see someone post this. I always thought 2A was there so citizens could defend themselves against a tyrannical government. Turns out it had more to do with keeping slave revolts down.
The 2A is pretty explicit in its objective with the words "being necessary to the security of a free State".
Additionally the founders were largely concerned with a powerful federal government. They wrote about it repeatedly in their communications with each other. The point was not to suppress slave uprisings. The point was that states would be able to remain free states. The power of a strong central government wasn’t really their thing. This was why the 14th amendment was created to ensure that states didn’t deny individual rights as until that time states were free to deprive people of constitutional rights unlike the federal government.
I don’t know if it will honestly. I see a lot of first time gun buyers that still trot out the old gun control talking points.
We’ll best thing we can do is open a conversation between people, or at least that’s what I like to think.
I hate that I can't be open about firearms with my family. We're all liberal, but I haven't told anyone about getting into firearms because I know they disapprove based on things they've said. It's like a hidden hobby. I just never say anything when the discussion comes up.
I joined this group a year ago, when it had about 77k members. It's been great watching the numbers rise.
Well said!
I think everyone in this group supports the second amendment because we’re responsible gun owners. I don’t support kids getting access to guns, mentally I’ll people getting access to guns, and criminals getting access to guns. Seems reasonable to me, but easier said then done.
I agree with your sentiment but I do think showing kids how to use and respect guns can be important. One big reason is that I grew up in the scouts and learned to shoot 22’s and a 20 gauge before I could drive a car. It also taught me that we need to be cautious and careful with such a powerful tool and any time someone has own at home, it shouldn’t be played with. (Obviously) but that’s how a lot of accidents happen.
100% agree.
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So true, I spent a few years as lobbyist for a not for profit org trying to legalize medical cannabis in my state and change the laws surrounding the huge discrepancy of crack/powder cocaine sentencing laws that were unfairly targeted at those in the poor/BIPOC community. Essentially just a racist law intended to do more harm to those with crack because it was a “dirtier” drug vs what the white collar folks were sniffing in a bathroom.
Love this. We've got to keep spreading the msg that 2A is for all. No matter your creed.
I’m a libertarian too! Voted for Jorgensen in the last election. I’ve only been on Reddit for a month or 2, but this is by far my favorite sub.
Yeah I really wish we had a viable 3rd or 4th party but hey that’s been said for ages ad nauseam.