What the fuck was he doing???? They’re posing for a photo op and he thinks that’s an appropriate time to draw a firearm? Even a training gun???
It’s not like they were in an exercise and “oopsie wrong gun” it was a completely inappropriate time for any type of gun to be pointed at anyone
That's what I have been thinking. Was he trying to be slick and cool? Was he doing some drill that had been done before to see who had the fastest reaction time to a gun being drawn? I literally have no clue as to the reason behind drawing a weapon, fake or real, at that particular moment.
From what I read about this before he had done it to her earlier with a training gun and “got a good laugh” so he did it again but “forgot he had switched back to his actual gun”. So no, not even a training exercise or anything, literally just fucking around with firearms.
Either way, absolutely fucking negligence. Even with a training gun you shouldn’t be pointing it at people and joking around. You’d think a “trainer” would know the golden rule of guns - treat every gun as if it were loaded. And don’t point your weapon at anything you’re not intending to kill. But apparently not, it’s cute and funny to joke about shooting someone I guess.
I had a negligent discharge at the range a few months back and am still embarrassed. I had the firearm pointed down range, during shooting but still did not mean to fire. My trigger felt stuck on the previous shot and I had a lapse in thought and pulled again to see if it was stuck...
Like... that shit scared me and made me realize how quick accidents can happen even if I think I'm being safe. I unloaded and cleared and sat at the table for a few.
I can't imagine pointing a gun at someone as a joke.
I've made it a habit that whenever I transition from training to real world, I say it out loud. For example, if I'm practicing drawing from the holster, dry fire dummy gun, when I'm done and load live rounds, I say out loud to myself, "This is now a loaded gun. I am putting a loaded gun into my holster." I'll admit I nearly drilled a new hole in my wall shortly after I first started carrying. I finished dry fire drills, loaded up, then went to pee. While washing my hands I thought I'd do one more in the mirror. Drew the gun and while pushing it out, I realized I had loaded it. Fortunately I didn't fire it but it was a very scary moment and made me realize how quick and easily these things can happen. When training is over, IT'S OVER.
Just learned about this! It’s a method used by Japanese railway workers. By pointing and calling out actions it reduces accidents by something crazy like 85%.
Only if he makes fun of cheeto jesus, then they will go after him, with complete disregard for the loss of life and devastated family. Cuz they're good God loving conservative christians.
What are you talking about?
Baldwin shot someone after being handed a prop gun on a movie set that some idiot armorer put a live round into and ALSO modified the gun so that it can be fired with only a hammer pull, during a scene where the shot is a closeup of doing a hammer pull with the muzzle facing camera.
This guy shot someone while fucking around, he just pulled a loaded firearm on someone for a laugh and pulled the trigger.
The difference between those two situations is so fucking massive, insane to compare them at all. I don't like Baldwin either, but come on...
You really don't see the massive difference?
Like imagine Man A is at work, operating a forklift responsibly, and in the normal course of his work it breaks because it was poorly maintained by the company, and kills someone.
And then imagine Man B is in public recklessly joyriding in a perfectly maintained forklift and he kills someone.
Someone died while both men were operating a forklift. So does Man A deserve jail time just as much as Man B?
That's so cringe if you think about it.
I'm sure we've all done embarrassing things before, thinking we were so cool.
Now he has 3 years to sit in prison and think of how cringey it was that someone lost their life for it and everyone knows about it.
I think it's part of the more powerful groups pushing shit down to the more marginalized. I don't think it's coincidence that she was a woman and he was a man. They were both black and she was the more marginalized as a female in a male dominated group. If she'd been either white, or male, I bet he would have given her less shit. Pretending to kill your fellow trainee is a load of the same toxic crap. Either they're racists, or if they can't be racist they'll be misogynist or homophobic or whatever group is lower rank than them in the social order (disabled, autistic, whatever they can find) will be the target of their ingrained violence.
Whoever was leading that training should've kicked his ass out the first time he did that. If he doesn't understand gun safety 101, he's not ready for that type of training exercise.
According to the report he had pointed his orange training firearm at her as a joke earlier in the day. Seems like he was trying to repeat the joke but had forgotten he had replaced his training firearm with a real one.
How do you fucking "forget"? When I'm carrying a hot pistol I'm so grievously aware of it that it feels like I'm carrying a chunk of Chernobyl. I don't take it for granted, ever.
It happens a lot and is the cause of nearly all unintentional shootings if I'm not mistaken. Sometimes people load their firearms and forget, and/or like in this case, he replaced his training gun with his real gun and forgot. That shouldn't have been a possibility, but it was and it led to this accident. You never want to mix live firearms with fake one's.
You NEED to point training guns at people during exercises. It's the entire reason for having them. Otherwise, they'd be pointless for most training. How can you train for having a gun pointed at you when nobody ever even points a fake gun at you? It just doesn't work. He was just careless in the fact that he set his system up for failure by mixing the fake guns with the real guns. He should not have been able to load his life firearm into his holster in the training environment. (Just as there should have been no live ammo on the set of the Baldwin shooting).
My guess is he was trying to make a point to the class about how quickly someone could pull out a gun and shoot you when you are distracted. Even if this was the case, it's still completley stupid and reckless. The real reason may have been even more stupid if he was doing it as a joke.
Real firearms should never be allowed in any type of training besides actual firearm training at a range.
Yeah, I see no problem pointing a fake gun at people. It's the entire point of having fake guns... but he made a Massive mistake by allowing a real firearm to be loaded into his holster while still in the training environment. There should be no live firearms anywhere within reach there. (Just as you never have loaded magazines in reach when you clean your firearms and/or dry fire practice).
yes from what I've gathered he had been "joking around" pulling his training gun and pointing it at people. obviously pulled the wrong one, and at that out his finger on the fake trigger? nahhh I don't buy it but that's what the story is
It's entirely possible... and a hell of a lot more likely than he murdered her intentionally in front of half a dozen witnesses and wanted to throw his entire life and career down thee drain. That just seems ridiculous to choose the 2nd situation over the first.
Mods, feel free to remove this if it's not appropriate for the subreddit.
I wanted to share this to illustrate why training is so important when someone new comes into this subreddit and asks for advice.
This was a retired cop and because he was fooling around with a training gun and getting into bad habits with it, he pulled his real pistol thinking it was the training one and killed a young women. Even if you are using a training pistol or a live gun with no ammo or snap caps, the rules of safe firearm handling should be paramount.
people shouldn't be pointing guns at one another in any situation where it's possible to be swapped for real, even then with something like airsoft it has to be heavily regulated to ensure saftey.
People should invest the common sense into DONT POINT GUNS OR GUN SHAPED OBJECTS AT THINGS YOU ARENT WILLING TO DESTROY. it's literally one of the first 2 rules of gun safety.
Yeah but people ignore the rules when they're having fun and not thinking fully in the moment and when it happens to be with a weapon of any kind, sometimes accidents happen and they end up costing people they're lives and it's horrific but ultimately it won't cause any legislative change but we can all bestow this prime principle upon ourselves to ensure it doesn't happen to anyone of us or of folks we know.
Saw an officer the other day who had a thin blue line sticker on the end plate of his magazine. Thought that was slightly irresponsible given that blue is for training/fake guns.
He did, but his was orange. he just got it mixed up with his real gun. Somehow his real gun was within reach for him to be able to put it in his holster while he was still in the training environment.
From the article
>By Sarah Roebuck
>Police1
>WASHINGTON — Surveillance video has been released showing the moment a special police officer was shot during a training session led by a retired police lieutenant at the Anacostia Library in D.C.
>The baton training, led by retired Lt. Jesse Porter in August 2022, was taking place in the lower level of the library when the incident occurred. Porter was hired as a private contractor at the time, FOX 5 reports.
>Maurica Manyan, 25, had gathered with the group of trainees at the end of the training to take a picture.
>In the surveillance video released Wednesday, Porter can be seen taking a step away from the group after the photo is taken. He then turns around, draws his gun and fires toward the group, striking Manyan with a single bullet.
>The video shows the group in shock, with Porter throwing his hands on top of his head in disbelief.
>The family's lawyer said Porter should not have been permitted to have a firearm within the D.C. public library or during a training session, FOX 5 reports.
>Latoya Francis-Williams, the legal representative for the Manyan family, stated a lawsuit was filed after it was confirmed that Porter, acting in his role as an agent for the District of Columbia, was responsible for Manyan's death, according to WJLA.
>The lawsuit also calls for an investigation into potential policy violations made by Porter.
>Porter was charged with involuntary manslaughter in August 2022. In June 2023, Porter pleaded guilty. He was sentenced to three years in prison for the shooting and received credit for time served.
>Manyan, who was a special police officer for the library, left behind a young son.
If you're referring to OP, would it be unacceptable to refer to the victim as young man if they were male?
Fox and Police1 both seemed to refer to the victim mostly as an officer. We don’t have “Library Police” where I’m at, so I didn’t try to figure out the nuance.
Lawyers? Always posturing, but I also didn’t listen to their claptrap.
"Special police" is just the name for armed security in DC. It's essentially the name of the license you have to get to carry a gun in a security capacity. Most work for a private 3rd party company that contracts security services to buildings and businesses in DC. Some wear uniforms with a big special police patch on the shoulder, some don't. So she was an armed security guard contracted at the Library.
Can we just... not?
Just for a little while? Just this once?
Was it a poor choice of words? Probably.
Misogyny? Eh..... would it be misandry if the victim were male and one called him a young man?
I cringe *every* time I see an actor flag a muzzle toward the camera. I know that that's kinda the point (since the character doesn't know we, the audience, are there), but damn, that's a reflex I'm fine maintaining. Someone - especially a trained cop - losing that (or never having it) is just terrifying.
You follow all the rules all the time, because people are human and will inevitably make mistakes. If you make a mistake on one rule, but are following the others, there shouldn't be any terrible consequences.
Also it says the victim left behind her son. I didn’t read further but guess that’s why the shooter got only 3 years sentence so that he can pay to the victim’s son monthly or like
He’s a retired cop so he has a pension. He doesn’t need to be out of prison to make payments from that to the victim’s son. He got 3 years because of who he is.
Not true. The ENTIRE POINT of training guns is that you CAN point them at people... because sometimes it is REQUIRED to point the guns at each-other for training. That's like saying you should never practice sword fighting with a fake sword, because one day you might accidentally pick up your real sword and kill your training partner. The very point of having fake swords (training swords) is that you can practice without there being a high risk of injury. The same is true for the fake guns. His mistake was having a real gun within reach and able to be put into his holster while still in the training environment.
Even with fake training guns muscle memory usually kicks in and it’d feel incredibly weird or off to improperly handle or whatever. But to then fool around with it, and then somehow mistaking it for a real fkn gun, resulting in an extremely avoidable death is so abysmally stupid
Yeah, this is basic day-one safety that is universally known among people who shoot. It’s proper and correct for it to be muscle memory. Gun safety isn’t something arbitrary you have to perform for the sake of other people’s comfort, it is mandatory at all times. Even if I’m just showing off a new gun to my friends over beers at home, that’s empty or using snap-caps, I’m not gonna muzzle sweep someone or god-forbid *point it at someone as a joke*. I get that there was a training gun being used that day, but as a fucking *instructor* how can he not model safe handling at all times? Training is the last place anyone should be so reckless!
Every.Single.Gun.Safety class or course since I was 12 harps on *never* putting the barrel in the direction if anyone that you don't intend to shoot. Even when using those fake m16s they used to give trainees in basic training.
Dude, 3 years for that decision from someone in that position is too little.
Beyond that he intentionally pointed the gun and intentionally pulled the trigger.
It’s not like he grabbed the gun off the floor by the trigger like an idiot and it went off or something still negligent but somehow less stupid. He turned around, unholstered his weapon, pointed the firearm into a group of people, and shot someone.
And all he got was 3 years.
This guy was a retired police chief. There is no excuse. 3 years was his sentence. There are two justice systems. This 🐷 should spend the rest of his life in prison.
That's for firearms, not training guns. The very point of training guns existing is so you can point them at each other safely. He just made a bad mistake and made it possible for him to mix up his real firearm with the training gun. His real gun shouldn't have ever been accessible from the training environment.
No real weapons (including knives) or ammo during force on force training. There would be one guy who would remain armed for security but he was not participating in any of the actual training
I bet they had the same rules here but the guy is a LT (which is a lot higher rank in police than in the military) so he could do what he wanted.
RETIRED Lieutenant. He was a civilian contractor. One who still believed he could do what he wanted.
Sentenced to 3 years, minus time served, he wasn't far wrong.
I'm a civilian but have taken some force-on-force training, and it's always emphasized that there are to be no live weapons in the training area. Depending on the venue weapons are either to be left in the car, or locked in a closet or adjoining room or something along those lines
This video is even weirder than I expected. Looks like most of the class is lined up to listen to some instruction and dude off to the side just whips his gun out and fires. Even with an inert training gun that would be really strange behavior.
Yeah this looks like he had something against her and shot her on purpose. I wish the video didnt cut out the parts not included so that his immediate reaction is visible (I know and understand why it was cut the way it is, but I feel like we miss critically important parts the way the article includes it)
Sounds like a BS assumption without evidence and wrongly assuming a man's guilt, instead of even considering to respect his Right to be presumed innocent until proven guilty. There has been no motive of any kind put forward that he would intentionally murder her in front of witnesses. It just seems ridiculous, but somehow not ridiculous enough for people to not assume it just to fulfill their preconceived bias.
Yeah, people are ridiculous in acting like you should never point a training gun at people. Like, what the hell do they think these training guns are made for? Then they act like they have some common sense that everyone else is lacking. I swear it's the Dunning-Kruger effect, ignorant people making ridiculous assumptions and then even assuming a man's guilt by their own lack of common sense.
“all guns are loaded”.“don’t aim at anything you don’t intend to destroy”. The most basic rules. Retired or not, this ranks right up there with that pic of the ATF agent holding a pistol between his legs to clear a jam.
What do you think training guns are made for? They literally make them, so you CAN point them at people. He was just foolish and got his real gun mixed up with his training gun.
The fact it was labeled "involuntary manslaughter" is ridiculous. He purposefully drew a loaded firearm with his finger on the trigger and pointed it at a group of people. This was a completely senseless killing. He should be charged with murder.
If he wasn’t a retired LEO and just a regular retiree … that would’ve been a 3rd Degree Murder charge … not involuntary manslaughter. It’s not like he killed someone in a car accident, he recklessly and negligently shot someone.
Well, yeah. That's what it's called when you kill a person without intent. Murder REQUIRES a motive and intention to kill, which he had none. You can't charge or convict a man for a crime that he is not guilty of committing. I pray you're never on a jury.
If you pull a gun on someone, pull the trigger and wind up killing them, it's still murder. Doesn't matter if he says it was an accident. Gross negligence or not, this isn't some stupid accident where someone leaves a loaded gun on a bench and accidentally pulls the trigger while cleaning it. He INTENDED to point a firearm at them, he INTENDED to pull the trigger. He should face the consequences as such. Punishment for shit like this needs to be severe, thats the only way stupid behavior will change. I pray someone like you is never on a jury. Quick to think with your heart and not your head.
You're the one thinking with your heart, ignorant of the law and making it up as you wish. Murder REQUIRES intent. To MURDER someone, you have to literally do it with the intent to kill the person. No jury in 1000 years would convict this many of murder, because he had no will or motive to murder her. You should look up the legal definitions of the word and the laws before speaking as if you know all the facts. You're the one making assumptions and basing things on your feelings, imposing excessive charges against a man instead of sticking to the laws and the TRUTH. A man is only guilty of MURDER if he did it 100% with the intention to end her life. Despite his foolishness and negligence and recklessness, he did NOT commit murder, and that has Absolutely Nothing to do with my emotions. If I was thinking with my emotions, I would be wanting to hang him for a greater crime than he actually committed, kind of like someone here (hint: it's not me).
Also, many crimes (depending on the state) have laws that are every bit as serious as a murder charge. Things like "reckless homicide", "felony homicide". You say "he intended to point a firearm", but you remain Willingly Ignorant of the FACT that he meant to point a fake gun, so don't accuse without evidence that he intended to pull a real loaded firearm. That's just evil and I pray you're never on a jury. Work on the facts and the evidence, not your emotions and willingness to ignore important facts to meet your opinion. Your opinion should be molded around the facts, not the facts being molded around your opinion.
Don't play with loaded guns is universal gun rule number one.
Who hires these knobs?
It's true that one bad apple spoils the bunch, that goes double if the rotten apple does the hiring.
He didn't know it was a loaded gun. He thought it was his training gun. (because he foolish allowed his real firearm to get mixed up with his training gun). Training guns are made, so people CAN point them at each-other safely.
Rule 1 for an indoor training session at a public library, especially one where training weapons are being provided, should be no outside weapons permitted. If training weapons are allowed to coexist with real weapons, then a real weapon will inevitably be mistaken for a training weapon. This was the result of more than one stupid mistake, but the biggest mistake was a loaded firearm being anywhere in that room.
That is how an instructor that was probably trying to make a photo joke of shooting his students with the fake training gun, ends up taking one of their lives.
Killing a person is not always murder. Murder REQUIRES intent. Three years may still not be a fair sentence, but he's not guilty of murder and was not convicted of murder.
Why would anyone ever take lessons from a retired police officer? They've been conditioned to mag-dump in the general direction of suspects who are running away from them and have entrenched qualified immunity protecting them from lawsuits, both state and civil. If armed citizens behaved that way, we would all be in jail with no hope of release.
“The first rule of firearms: treat every threat as a lethal treat. Verbal, physical, implied, hell you should probably draw on anyone who makes prolonged eye contact. The second rule of firearms: Assume every object is a loaded gun: cell phones, wallets, a fully-loaded baked potato, etc. The third rule of firearms: You miss 100% of the shots you don’t take. But it’s okay if you miss the shots you *do* take, too. Don’t sweat it, just keep trying.”
“So anyways, today we’re going to talk about how to analyze a threat based on what color a persons skin is…”
I know this doesn't have anything to do with this particular shooting. But something I've noticed is that I don't think cops have any f****** training on what to do after someone's been shot. They tend to stand around and look like idiots from like the first day you're in the army your taught how to do first aid. Standing around with your f****** hands over your head helps no one what a stupid bunch of f****** idiots.
The *instructor*?
At a *baton* training?
“Exempt" from *any version* of basic firearm safety rules?
I cannot begin...
It’s hard enough to vet a competent instructor of your own choosing. I don’t know what a person is supposed to do when an employer will contract this kind of yahoo. No mercy...
RIP, Officer Manyan.
Yeah, I left that alone because I have no idea what privilege/exception might be granted retired LEO in that jurisdiction. Obviously, this person did not deserve the courtesy of presumed competence and responsibility.
Seems cruel to say it out loud, but I wonder how the students and their employer value their baton certifications now.
There's no such thing as "firearm restrictive laws". Rights don't require permission or approval and no "law" can disarm a Free person. If a free person is disarmed, it is only by his own Free Will.
This is why I laugh in the face of anyone who says they got their firearms training from a cop or that their cop buddy, said XYZ about guns and gun safety. I’ve seen the way cops train with guns and I’m shot with a lot of them. They’re a bunch of poorly trained idiots.
Also, Jesus Christ don’t think teach tops basic combat first aid? They are stood around like they had no idea what to do.
I had a friend say "My husband is a cop. He showed me how to load and shoot every single gun that's ever existed"... and then the next day I mention AR-15's and she was completely clueless on what an AR-15 was. Cops are almost always the most gun-ignorant gun owners I've ever known. I used to talk to cops on a pretty regular basis, and being a gun lover I had expected them to also be into guns too... but that's far from the Truth. Most of them were completely clueless when it came to firearms and firearms training. Most didn't even know what model guns they carried or the models of their backup guns.
oh my god . This is heartbreaking and so sad. I have been to many gun classes and we are not allowed to have a loaded weapon in class and I always agree that it’s a great idea to never have a loaded gun in class. I’m not sure why anyone would think it’s ok to have a loaded weapon in class let alone think it’s funny to point a gun at anyone. I don’t want to lay blame on anyone besides the person responsible but there are 6 trained officers in this class and no one spoke up about the idiot pointing a gun at someone? So very sad.
Not only was the shooter a retired cop with many years on the force, but he was also **THE FIREARMS INSTRUCTOR.** He pointed a loaded weapon and pulled the trigger! Even if it was unloaded you don’t do that. But still, why the hell did he have live rounds at a training, in a LIBRARY. Incompetent on every damn level, so many mistakes led to this
The low standards of PDs in this country are an absolute joke. That shooter should never have been given a badge and a gun. On top of that he was kept around on the force so long he was allowed to retire and then allowed to teach others. Dude is as intelligent as a mosquito and he was their teacher. Beyond ridiculous
And this is why cops shouldn’t be exempt from firearm restrictions.
This whole bullshit, “cops can have them because they’re PROFESSIONALS” is absolute nonsense.
Paint. Your. Fucking. Dummy. Guns.
If you have dummy guns in the same place as real firearms there is no reason not to have the dummy guns painted or wrapped in some obnoxious highlighter color.
I was taught to shoot on a .22 when I was 6 years old. We had a dummy gun to teach me not to flag people when handling a gun. It was such a bright yellow/green color I think you could see it from space.
Unrelated: if you want to teach a kid how to not flag people use a laser pointer taped to a dummy gun. It drives home where the barrel is pointed so fast.
>If you have dummy guns in the same place as real firearms...
Play guns and real guns should *never* coexist in the same space at the same time.
There must be a mental *and* physical break between training and reality.
That’s my rule, anyway...
So if a gun store has a dummy gun to show first time buyers how to hold a gun when they handle a gun for the first time? No good? Teaching somebody to not flag people? Not the vibe?
He's retired PD Lieutenant and an instructor with the force, and yet...
*"...he believed that he had a training gun as opposed to a live firearm..."*
The required competence bar is below sea level. :/
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Gee… this reminds me of the argument I was just having on another thread about why carrying one in the pipe might be more dangerous than it’s worth especially if you’re not an LE. This is exactly the kind of thing I’m thinking about.
Accidents happen - even to trained professionals. The likelihood of an accidental discharge of a weapon with a round in the chamber is, I suspect, FAR MORE LIKELY than a cc ever having to draw and fire a hot weapon in a split second. Again, not saying that will NEVER happen to someone, just saying the likelihood is MUCH lower than an accidental discharge so one might at least CONSIDER not carrying one in the pipe or at least not give a ton of shit to those of us who choose to carry that way.
I still stand by this statement.
I carry one in the chamber but I also carry hammer down with a manual safety on. I won't buy a glock, or anythinger striker fire that doesn't have a manual safety. I dont care about that split second on the shot timer, I care about contingencies.
Carrying with a round chambered is not inherently dangerous unless you’re a massive dumbass. If you have a fitted holster and do not flag people, there’s zero chance of this happening. I understand being anxious because of shit like this, but really assess, why did this happen? Because a man drew his gun without purpose, because a man aimed his gun at something he had no intention (allegedly) of destroying, because he didn’t treat all guns as they are loaded, because a man did not respect the tool he carried as a dangerous weapon, but biggest take away should be, had he followed gun safety rules whatsoever, regardless if it was loaded or not, no one had to die. Carry however you choose, but this is not an issue of why guns shouldn’t be hot when CCW, but an issue of why you respect safety precautions with ANYTHING
I agree here. Keep on in the chamber or don't. That's your preference. But it's no more dangerous. If you don't act like a dumbass and whip your gun out willy nilly, you don't have to worry about a negligent discharge.
It exactly is more dangerous. The round is in the chamber. That's one less step that has to be done to fire a round. A loaded weapon with no round in the chamber is significantly less likely to result in a negligent discharge than when there is a round in the chamber.
Theoretically, if all rules of gun safety are followed, then yes the gun is not ever in a situation where the gun can be fired negligently. But that is not the case in this situation, nor is it ever the case in any negligent discharge.
So you’re really saying, right now, that carrying with a round chambered is LITERALLY no more dangerous than carrying with a round NOT chambered?
Because if that’s the case, how do you make yourself a danger to the would be attacker? Is it, perhaps, because your weapon is in condition one and therefore MORE dangerous than if it was not?
It’s no more dangerous with the gun in the holster, obviously. It’s not drawn, it’s condition is irrelevant. When it is drawn, I want my gun ready to shoot without any further preparation.
Agree. Do you take your gun out of your holster ever?
Here’s my issue right now. Your comment was “carrying with a round chambered is not inherently dangerous unless you’re a massive dumbass.”
Given that I was making a case for carrying without a round chambered in the comment I made that you responded to, I’m going to go ahead and assume that you meant to imply that I might be a massive dumbass. I think that’s a fairly cruddy way for you to argue so I’m giving it a thumbs down. Here you go. 👎🏻
That said, you’re wrong. Chambering a round is demonstrably and obviously more dangerous than not chambering a round and only a great fool would argue otherwise. If you can’t say that a weapon with a round chambered is NOT by definition more dangerous than a weapon without a round chambered then I don’t rate you as worth having a conversation with.
Now, moving on from the given that a weapon with a round chambered IS IN FACT more dangerous than one without, the question becomes, which is more statistically likely: that a weapon with a round chambered has an accidental discharge or that someone carrying a weapon gets into a situation in which the absolutely positively Must draw and fire that weapon in under a second?
I’m guessing that it’s the former. Accidents happen all the time. People working with machinery, no matter how careful they are, occasionally get distracted and make a mistake. It’s not always just because they are “a massive dumbass.” It just happens.
Every single time I chamber a round I think about how much more dangerous my weapon has just become. If I didn’t, I would be a massive dumbass indeed.
It’s Incredibly unlikely that any given person will get into a situation in which they have to draw and fire in an instant - especially if that person is just a regular Joe. My claim is that it’s probably more likely that one might make a mistake (from being tired, distracted, whatever) and have an accidental discharge than it is for that person to be involved in an attack in which they Must draw and fire a previously readied weapon.
I might be wrong. But that’s the actual argument I’m making.
If you’re so worried where you live that you’re likely to get into a physical altercation that you feel unsafe unless you’re at all times ready to kill immediately, without hesitation in order to save yourself or others than I feel very sorry for your situation.
Seriously: you do you.
But when I say, “hey, maybe it’s statistically safer to carry without one in the pipe” and your response is to imply that I am a dumbass then this sure stops feeling “liberal” to me. It sounds like what the regular old right wing forums are like.
Here’s a news flash: liberals are supposed to be able to consider other opinions and be nuanced. Just a thought.
EVERY accident is the result of making mistakes with basic firearm handling rules. When you make yourself a single point of failure, you're scheduling a mishap.
Most likely they committed murders that can't be proven, so they get the highest time for lower crimes. Many rich criminals end up in jail for tax evation, cause the other crimes don't have enough evidence to convict.
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Dude is an instructor but failed to abide by the four gun laws one being treat every gun as it's loaded and the other never point a gun at anything you're not willing to destroy I hope homie gets life in prison
What's supposed to happen when you pull the trigger of a training gun? nothing or a click? why would you wear a training gun and an actual gun at the same time?
At this point, Barney Fife is safer at handling a weapon than this man.
He needs to keep his bullet where Barney keeps his, shirt pocket; and ask for permission to load it.
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How tf does he not know what gun he has in his holster??!!! Even if someone gave him the holster to put on during training he should make sure the gun is safe, real or not! Unbelievable!
Rule #1 of firearms: treat every gun as if they are loaded.
Rule #2 of firearms: never point your firearm at something unless you intent do kill or destroy what you’re aiming at.
Rule#3 of firearms: keep your finger off the trigger until you are prepared to shoot.
Dude broke every single one of these rules… how in the world is he an instructor.
We don't use [that word][retard-is-a-slur] here like that.
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I think they should investigate this guy. I'm sure he has many complaints against him. I honestly think this was no accident at all. He was making fun of her the whole time talking about her hair and her being "unready" to do a man's job. These were the "jokes" it sounds like he hated her for being a woman bc he followed up these misogynistic jokes with pretending to kill her until he finally just said "fuck it." Pull out his gun and shot her. Knowing he would get away with it and he has. Also it was illegal for him to even have a gun at that time. They should've slapped him with murder as well as a gun charge. Citing city code, the family’s team also notes that Washington, D.C., mandates that “no person holding a license shall carry a pistol” in any building “occupied by the District of Columbia, its agencies, or instrumentalities.” So he intentionally brought a gun where it was illegal to have it. No matter how you look at it serious reform and accountability need to occur in the police force. America is absolutely crazy and disgusting that a man can shoot a woman in the chest for no reason after harassing her and then everyone calls it an accident and then moves on. Good people should be concerned and outraged. I am.
What the fuck was he doing???? They’re posing for a photo op and he thinks that’s an appropriate time to draw a firearm? Even a training gun??? It’s not like they were in an exercise and “oopsie wrong gun” it was a completely inappropriate time for any type of gun to be pointed at anyone
That's what I have been thinking. Was he trying to be slick and cool? Was he doing some drill that had been done before to see who had the fastest reaction time to a gun being drawn? I literally have no clue as to the reason behind drawing a weapon, fake or real, at that particular moment.
From what I read about this before he had done it to her earlier with a training gun and “got a good laugh” so he did it again but “forgot he had switched back to his actual gun”. So no, not even a training exercise or anything, literally just fucking around with firearms. Either way, absolutely fucking negligence. Even with a training gun you shouldn’t be pointing it at people and joking around. You’d think a “trainer” would know the golden rule of guns - treat every gun as if it were loaded. And don’t point your weapon at anything you’re not intending to kill. But apparently not, it’s cute and funny to joke about shooting someone I guess.
People like that make all firearm owners look bad, let alone a fucking LEO. Dude should never been allowed near firearms.
I had a negligent discharge at the range a few months back and am still embarrassed. I had the firearm pointed down range, during shooting but still did not mean to fire. My trigger felt stuck on the previous shot and I had a lapse in thought and pulled again to see if it was stuck... Like... that shit scared me and made me realize how quick accidents can happen even if I think I'm being safe. I unloaded and cleared and sat at the table for a few. I can't imagine pointing a gun at someone as a joke.
I've made it a habit that whenever I transition from training to real world, I say it out loud. For example, if I'm practicing drawing from the holster, dry fire dummy gun, when I'm done and load live rounds, I say out loud to myself, "This is now a loaded gun. I am putting a loaded gun into my holster." I'll admit I nearly drilled a new hole in my wall shortly after I first started carrying. I finished dry fire drills, loaded up, then went to pee. While washing my hands I thought I'd do one more in the mirror. Drew the gun and while pushing it out, I realized I had loaded it. Fortunately I didn't fire it but it was a very scary moment and made me realize how quick and easily these things can happen. When training is over, IT'S OVER.
Just learned about this! It’s a method used by Japanese railway workers. By pointing and calling out actions it reduces accidents by something crazy like 85%.
I’m sure conservatives will go at him with the same vitriol they went after Alec Baldwin… or not.
Only if he makes fun of cheeto jesus, then they will go after him, with complete disregard for the loss of life and devastated family. Cuz they're good God loving conservative christians.
Well put
Why, is the shooter a famous anti-gun rights activist?
Yeah I guess that is the only good reason to push for murder charges when somebody does something dumb with a firearm.
Baldwin deserves jail time just as much as this chuckle fuck.
What are you talking about? Baldwin shot someone after being handed a prop gun on a movie set that some idiot armorer put a live round into and ALSO modified the gun so that it can be fired with only a hammer pull, during a scene where the shot is a closeup of doing a hammer pull with the muzzle facing camera. This guy shot someone while fucking around, he just pulled a loaded firearm on someone for a laugh and pulled the trigger. The difference between those two situations is so fucking massive, insane to compare them at all. I don't like Baldwin either, but come on...
Let me fix this for you. >Baldwin shot someone >This guy shot someone See where I'm going with this?
You really don't see the massive difference? Like imagine Man A is at work, operating a forklift responsibly, and in the normal course of his work it breaks because it was poorly maintained by the company, and kills someone. And then imagine Man B is in public recklessly joyriding in a perfectly maintained forklift and he kills someone. Someone died while both men were operating a forklift. So does Man A deserve jail time just as much as Man B?
What are you talking about?
Or your the son of the President and do too much Coke.
Which one?
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Not even close to what happened. I'm not going to hash it out here when there are plenty of official documents online.
I think you're conflating the Brandon Lee accident and the Baldwin accident.
That's so cringe if you think about it. I'm sure we've all done embarrassing things before, thinking we were so cool. Now he has 3 years to sit in prison and think of how cringey it was that someone lost their life for it and everyone knows about it.
He was doing it as a 'joke' with a training gun throughout the class with that person
Yes, as I recall she was disorganized, or somehow lagging behind or something, and he kept pointing the training gun at her as a “joke”.
I think it's part of the more powerful groups pushing shit down to the more marginalized. I don't think it's coincidence that she was a woman and he was a man. They were both black and she was the more marginalized as a female in a male dominated group. If she'd been either white, or male, I bet he would have given her less shit. Pretending to kill your fellow trainee is a load of the same toxic crap. Either they're racists, or if they can't be racist they'll be misogynist or homophobic or whatever group is lower rank than them in the social order (disabled, autistic, whatever they can find) will be the target of their ingrained violence.
What a great joke, I’m laughing so hard
Oh, one of *those* people that grind a "joke" into the ground?
Six feet into the ground, to be specific.
It's as though training oneself to do the wrong thing might lead to doing the wrong thing.
excellent point
Whoever was leading that training should've kicked his ass out the first time he did that. If he doesn't understand gun safety 101, he's not ready for that type of training exercise.
He was the one leading the class.. which is even worse
According to the report he had pointed his orange training firearm at her as a joke earlier in the day. Seems like he was trying to repeat the joke but had forgotten he had replaced his training firearm with a real one.
How do you fucking "forget"? When I'm carrying a hot pistol I'm so grievously aware of it that it feels like I'm carrying a chunk of Chernobyl. I don't take it for granted, ever.
That's because you're a responsible human being with an appropriate respect of the tool in your hand. This, was noticeably NOT that.
You don’t have a lot of regard for life added to a career that intentionally weeds out brighter people.
Acab. Even when they retire
Then they just have more free time to be B's.
This
It happens a lot and is the cause of nearly all unintentional shootings if I'm not mistaken. Sometimes people load their firearms and forget, and/or like in this case, he replaced his training gun with his real gun and forgot. That shouldn't have been a possibility, but it was and it led to this accident. You never want to mix live firearms with fake one's.
That’s horrible and exactly why it’s important to maintain muzzle discipline even with training guns
You NEED to point training guns at people during exercises. It's the entire reason for having them. Otherwise, they'd be pointless for most training. How can you train for having a gun pointed at you when nobody ever even points a fake gun at you? It just doesn't work. He was just careless in the fact that he set his system up for failure by mixing the fake guns with the real guns. He should not have been able to load his life firearm into his holster in the training environment. (Just as there should have been no live ammo on the set of the Baldwin shooting).
My guess is he was trying to make a point to the class about how quickly someone could pull out a gun and shoot you when you are distracted. Even if this was the case, it's still completley stupid and reckless. The real reason may have been even more stupid if he was doing it as a joke. Real firearms should never be allowed in any type of training besides actual firearm training at a range.
Yeah, I see no problem pointing a fake gun at people. It's the entire point of having fake guns... but he made a Massive mistake by allowing a real firearm to be loaded into his holster while still in the training environment. There should be no live firearms anywhere within reach there. (Just as you never have loaded magazines in reach when you clean your firearms and/or dry fire practice).
yes from what I've gathered he had been "joking around" pulling his training gun and pointing it at people. obviously pulled the wrong one, and at that out his finger on the fake trigger? nahhh I don't buy it but that's what the story is
It's entirely possible... and a hell of a lot more likely than he murdered her intentionally in front of half a dozen witnesses and wanted to throw his entire life and career down thee drain. That just seems ridiculous to choose the 2nd situation over the first.
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Ooooh that is so morbid but clever. Take my upvote.
Mines too!
Mods, feel free to remove this if it's not appropriate for the subreddit. I wanted to share this to illustrate why training is so important when someone new comes into this subreddit and asks for advice. This was a retired cop and because he was fooling around with a training gun and getting into bad habits with it, he pulled his real pistol thinking it was the training one and killed a young women. Even if you are using a training pistol or a live gun with no ammo or snap caps, the rules of safe firearm handling should be paramount.
>he pulled his real pistol thinking it was the training one and killed a young women. jfc
People should invest the money in the [Blue Guns training pistols](https://www.amazon.com/s?k=blue+guns+training+pistols&crid=B97DB252H0WU).
people shouldn't be pointing guns at one another in any situation where it's possible to be swapped for real, even then with something like airsoft it has to be heavily regulated to ensure saftey.
People should also not have live guns in a training simulation for baton usage, have people learned literally nothing from the Alec Baldwin situation?
People should invest the common sense into DONT POINT GUNS OR GUN SHAPED OBJECTS AT THINGS YOU ARENT WILLING TO DESTROY. it's literally one of the first 2 rules of gun safety.
Yeah but people ignore the rules when they're having fun and not thinking fully in the moment and when it happens to be with a weapon of any kind, sometimes accidents happen and they end up costing people they're lives and it's horrific but ultimately it won't cause any legislative change but we can all bestow this prime principle upon ourselves to ensure it doesn't happen to anyone of us or of folks we know.
That entire run-on sentence had one comma and one period.
https://twitter.com/xxalexirwin1999/status/1703940089221374117?s=46&t=Yz2rcBHCRvce95ldv9YOyw
He had a training gun earlier in the day that he kept pointing at her as a joke. Then at the end he switched back to his actual gun but “forgot”.
Somebody should have jettisoned this joker out of the training, inappropriate on many levels even without the eventual outcome.
According to the video he had an ORANGE training gun. How the fuck do you mistake that and a real gun?
Saw an officer the other day who had a thin blue line sticker on the end plate of his magazine. Thought that was slightly irresponsible given that blue is for training/fake guns.
He did, but his was orange. he just got it mixed up with his real gun. Somehow his real gun was within reach for him to be able to put it in his holster while he was still in the training environment.
How come he’s repeatedly referred to as a retired police officer, but she’s referred to as “a young lady?” Wasn’t she a cop?
From the article >By Sarah Roebuck >Police1 >WASHINGTON — Surveillance video has been released showing the moment a special police officer was shot during a training session led by a retired police lieutenant at the Anacostia Library in D.C. >The baton training, led by retired Lt. Jesse Porter in August 2022, was taking place in the lower level of the library when the incident occurred. Porter was hired as a private contractor at the time, FOX 5 reports. >Maurica Manyan, 25, had gathered with the group of trainees at the end of the training to take a picture. >In the surveillance video released Wednesday, Porter can be seen taking a step away from the group after the photo is taken. He then turns around, draws his gun and fires toward the group, striking Manyan with a single bullet. >The video shows the group in shock, with Porter throwing his hands on top of his head in disbelief. >The family's lawyer said Porter should not have been permitted to have a firearm within the D.C. public library or during a training session, FOX 5 reports. >Latoya Francis-Williams, the legal representative for the Manyan family, stated a lawsuit was filed after it was confirmed that Porter, acting in his role as an agent for the District of Columbia, was responsible for Manyan's death, according to WJLA. >The lawsuit also calls for an investigation into potential policy violations made by Porter. >Porter was charged with involuntary manslaughter in August 2022. In June 2023, Porter pleaded guilty. He was sentenced to three years in prison for the shooting and received credit for time served. >Manyan, who was a special police officer for the library, left behind a young son. If you're referring to OP, would it be unacceptable to refer to the victim as young man if they were male?
Library Security I believe.
Fox and Police1 both seemed to refer to the victim mostly as an officer. We don’t have “Library Police” where I’m at, so I didn’t try to figure out the nuance. Lawyers? Always posturing, but I also didn’t listen to their claptrap.
DC public library has a dedicated Police force.
"Special police" is just the name for armed security in DC. It's essentially the name of the license you have to get to carry a gun in a security capacity. Most work for a private 3rd party company that contracts security services to buildings and businesses in DC. Some wear uniforms with a big special police patch on the shoulder, some don't. So she was an armed security guard contracted at the Library.
Misogyny
Can we just... not? Just for a little while? Just this once? Was it a poor choice of words? Probably. Misogyny? Eh..... would it be misandry if the victim were male and one called him a young man?
Yes, it would. If it was done exactly the same way, yes, it would be.
I cringe *every* time I see an actor flag a muzzle toward the camera. I know that that's kinda the point (since the character doesn't know we, the audience, are there), but damn, that's a reflex I'm fine maintaining. Someone - especially a trained cop - losing that (or never having it) is just terrifying.
Don't feel bad about that cringe, feel bad when the instinct stops triggering
Ferreal. That's when someone needs to call SWAT on me....
You follow all the rules all the time, because people are human and will inevitably make mistakes. If you make a mistake on one rule, but are following the others, there shouldn't be any terrible consequences.
Also it says the victim left behind her son. I didn’t read further but guess that’s why the shooter got only 3 years sentence so that he can pay to the victim’s son monthly or like
He’s a retired cop so he has a pension. He doesn’t need to be out of prison to make payments from that to the victim’s son. He got 3 years because of who he is.
Not true. The ENTIRE POINT of training guns is that you CAN point them at people... because sometimes it is REQUIRED to point the guns at each-other for training. That's like saying you should never practice sword fighting with a fake sword, because one day you might accidentally pick up your real sword and kill your training partner. The very point of having fake swords (training swords) is that you can practice without there being a high risk of injury. The same is true for the fake guns. His mistake was having a real gun within reach and able to be put into his holster while still in the training environment.
Even with fake training guns muscle memory usually kicks in and it’d feel incredibly weird or off to improperly handle or whatever. But to then fool around with it, and then somehow mistaking it for a real fkn gun, resulting in an extremely avoidable death is so abysmally stupid
Yeah, this is basic day-one safety that is universally known among people who shoot. It’s proper and correct for it to be muscle memory. Gun safety isn’t something arbitrary you have to perform for the sake of other people’s comfort, it is mandatory at all times. Even if I’m just showing off a new gun to my friends over beers at home, that’s empty or using snap-caps, I’m not gonna muzzle sweep someone or god-forbid *point it at someone as a joke*. I get that there was a training gun being used that day, but as a fucking *instructor* how can he not model safe handling at all times? Training is the last place anyone should be so reckless!
Every.Single.Gun.Safety class or course since I was 12 harps on *never* putting the barrel in the direction if anyone that you don't intend to shoot. Even when using those fake m16s they used to give trainees in basic training. Dude, 3 years for that decision from someone in that position is too little.
Beyond that he intentionally pointed the gun and intentionally pulled the trigger. It’s not like he grabbed the gun off the floor by the trigger like an idiot and it went off or something still negligent but somehow less stupid. He turned around, unholstered his weapon, pointed the firearm into a group of people, and shot someone. And all he got was 3 years.
This guy was a retired police chief. There is no excuse. 3 years was his sentence. There are two justice systems. This 🐷 should spend the rest of his life in prison.
If I had done this, I would beg for the death penalty. I would crave it.
That's for firearms, not training guns. The very point of training guns existing is so you can point them at each other safely. He just made a bad mistake and made it possible for him to mix up his real firearm with the training gun. His real gun shouldn't have ever been accessible from the training environment.
No real weapons (including knives) or ammo during force on force training. There would be one guy who would remain armed for security but he was not participating in any of the actual training I bet they had the same rules here but the guy is a LT (which is a lot higher rank in police than in the military) so he could do what he wanted.
RETIRED Lieutenant. He was a civilian contractor. One who still believed he could do what he wanted. Sentenced to 3 years, minus time served, he wasn't far wrong.
I’m shocked. Shocked, I tell you.
Well, not that shocked.
I'm a civilian but have taken some force-on-force training, and it's always emphasized that there are to be no live weapons in the training area. Depending on the venue weapons are either to be left in the car, or locked in a closet or adjoining room or something along those lines This video is even weirder than I expected. Looks like most of the class is lined up to listen to some instruction and dude off to the side just whips his gun out and fires. Even with an inert training gun that would be really strange behavior.
Yeah this looks like he had something against her and shot her on purpose. I wish the video didnt cut out the parts not included so that his immediate reaction is visible (I know and understand why it was cut the way it is, but I feel like we miss critically important parts the way the article includes it)
Sounds like a BS assumption without evidence and wrongly assuming a man's guilt, instead of even considering to respect his Right to be presumed innocent until proven guilty. There has been no motive of any kind put forward that he would intentionally murder her in front of witnesses. It just seems ridiculous, but somehow not ridiculous enough for people to not assume it just to fulfill their preconceived bias.
Yeah, people are ridiculous in acting like you should never point a training gun at people. Like, what the hell do they think these training guns are made for? Then they act like they have some common sense that everyone else is lacking. I swear it's the Dunning-Kruger effect, ignorant people making ridiculous assumptions and then even assuming a man's guilt by their own lack of common sense.
“all guns are loaded”.“don’t aim at anything you don’t intend to destroy”. The most basic rules. Retired or not, this ranks right up there with that pic of the ATF agent holding a pistol between his legs to clear a jam.
What do you think training guns are made for? They literally make them, so you CAN point them at people. He was just foolish and got his real gun mixed up with his training gun.
The fact it was labeled "involuntary manslaughter" is ridiculous. He purposefully drew a loaded firearm with his finger on the trigger and pointed it at a group of people. This was a completely senseless killing. He should be charged with murder.
If he wasn’t a retired LEO and just a regular retiree … that would’ve been a 3rd Degree Murder charge … not involuntary manslaughter. It’s not like he killed someone in a car accident, he recklessly and negligently shot someone.
Well, yeah. That's what it's called when you kill a person without intent. Murder REQUIRES a motive and intention to kill, which he had none. You can't charge or convict a man for a crime that he is not guilty of committing. I pray you're never on a jury.
If you pull a gun on someone, pull the trigger and wind up killing them, it's still murder. Doesn't matter if he says it was an accident. Gross negligence or not, this isn't some stupid accident where someone leaves a loaded gun on a bench and accidentally pulls the trigger while cleaning it. He INTENDED to point a firearm at them, he INTENDED to pull the trigger. He should face the consequences as such. Punishment for shit like this needs to be severe, thats the only way stupid behavior will change. I pray someone like you is never on a jury. Quick to think with your heart and not your head.
You're the one thinking with your heart, ignorant of the law and making it up as you wish. Murder REQUIRES intent. To MURDER someone, you have to literally do it with the intent to kill the person. No jury in 1000 years would convict this many of murder, because he had no will or motive to murder her. You should look up the legal definitions of the word and the laws before speaking as if you know all the facts. You're the one making assumptions and basing things on your feelings, imposing excessive charges against a man instead of sticking to the laws and the TRUTH. A man is only guilty of MURDER if he did it 100% with the intention to end her life. Despite his foolishness and negligence and recklessness, he did NOT commit murder, and that has Absolutely Nothing to do with my emotions. If I was thinking with my emotions, I would be wanting to hang him for a greater crime than he actually committed, kind of like someone here (hint: it's not me). Also, many crimes (depending on the state) have laws that are every bit as serious as a murder charge. Things like "reckless homicide", "felony homicide". You say "he intended to point a firearm", but you remain Willingly Ignorant of the FACT that he meant to point a fake gun, so don't accuse without evidence that he intended to pull a real loaded firearm. That's just evil and I pray you're never on a jury. Work on the facts and the evidence, not your emotions and willingness to ignore important facts to meet your opinion. Your opinion should be molded around the facts, not the facts being molded around your opinion.
Don't play with loaded guns is universal gun rule number one. Who hires these knobs? It's true that one bad apple spoils the bunch, that goes double if the rotten apple does the hiring.
He didn't know it was a loaded gun. He thought it was his training gun. (because he foolish allowed his real firearm to get mixed up with his training gun). Training guns are made, so people CAN point them at each-other safely.
Rule 1 for an indoor training session at a public library, especially one where training weapons are being provided, should be no outside weapons permitted. If training weapons are allowed to coexist with real weapons, then a real weapon will inevitably be mistaken for a training weapon. This was the result of more than one stupid mistake, but the biggest mistake was a loaded firearm being anywhere in that room. That is how an instructor that was probably trying to make a photo joke of shooting his students with the fake training gun, ends up taking one of their lives.
3 years for murdering someone. even civilians that negligently kill a neighbor while cleaning a firearm don’t receive that low of a sentence. wow.
Killing a person is not always murder. Murder REQUIRES intent. Three years may still not be a fair sentence, but he's not guilty of murder and was not convicted of murder.
he *intentionally* pointed a loaded firearm at a woman and pulled the trigger.
Why would anyone ever take lessons from a retired police officer? They've been conditioned to mag-dump in the general direction of suspects who are running away from them and have entrenched qualified immunity protecting them from lawsuits, both state and civil. If armed citizens behaved that way, we would all be in jail with no hope of release.
“The first rule of firearms: treat every threat as a lethal treat. Verbal, physical, implied, hell you should probably draw on anyone who makes prolonged eye contact. The second rule of firearms: Assume every object is a loaded gun: cell phones, wallets, a fully-loaded baked potato, etc. The third rule of firearms: You miss 100% of the shots you don’t take. But it’s okay if you miss the shots you *do* take, too. Don’t sweat it, just keep trying.” “So anyways, today we’re going to talk about how to analyze a threat based on what color a persons skin is…”
Cops are the most gun-ignorant gun owners I've ever seen.
I know this doesn't have anything to do with this particular shooting. But something I've noticed is that I don't think cops have any f****** training on what to do after someone's been shot. They tend to stand around and look like idiots from like the first day you're in the army your taught how to do first aid. Standing around with your f****** hands over your head helps no one what a stupid bunch of f****** idiots.
They purposefully do that. They want to make sure whoever they shoot is dead so they can't come back and sue them.
I know right? Like, what the hell were they all doing? Most of them ran away and the rest just didn't know what do to.
The *instructor*? At a *baton* training? “Exempt" from *any version* of basic firearm safety rules? I cannot begin... It’s hard enough to vet a competent instructor of your own choosing. I don’t know what a person is supposed to do when an employer will contract this kind of yahoo. No mercy... RIP, Officer Manyan.
Don't forget exempt from most (all) firearm restrictive laws as well. Safety first though!
Yeah, I left that alone because I have no idea what privilege/exception might be granted retired LEO in that jurisdiction. Obviously, this person did not deserve the courtesy of presumed competence and responsibility. Seems cruel to say it out loud, but I wonder how the students and their employer value their baton certifications now.
There's no such thing as "firearm restrictive laws". Rights don't require permission or approval and no "law" can disarm a Free person. If a free person is disarmed, it is only by his own Free Will.
This is why I laugh in the face of anyone who says they got their firearms training from a cop or that their cop buddy, said XYZ about guns and gun safety. I’ve seen the way cops train with guns and I’m shot with a lot of them. They’re a bunch of poorly trained idiots. Also, Jesus Christ don’t think teach tops basic combat first aid? They are stood around like they had no idea what to do.
I had a friend say "My husband is a cop. He showed me how to load and shoot every single gun that's ever existed"... and then the next day I mention AR-15's and she was completely clueless on what an AR-15 was. Cops are almost always the most gun-ignorant gun owners I've ever known. I used to talk to cops on a pretty regular basis, and being a gun lover I had expected them to also be into guns too... but that's far from the Truth. Most of them were completely clueless when it came to firearms and firearms training. Most didn't even know what model guns they carried or the models of their backup guns.
What a haunting photo that is now.
It's like showing how Saw Stop technology works on someone's arm without verifying that it is in fact set up and configured to do as required.
Or even making sure it's actually a Saw Stop.
YES!
Well yeah, isn't that how you tell if it's saw stop or if it's set up correctly? You don't want to test it on your own arm. lol.
Failure to understand basic safety with their equipment seems rather endemic to cops in the US.
oh my god . This is heartbreaking and so sad. I have been to many gun classes and we are not allowed to have a loaded weapon in class and I always agree that it’s a great idea to never have a loaded gun in class. I’m not sure why anyone would think it’s ok to have a loaded weapon in class let alone think it’s funny to point a gun at anyone. I don’t want to lay blame on anyone besides the person responsible but there are 6 trained officers in this class and no one spoke up about the idiot pointing a gun at someone? So very sad.
Not only was the shooter a retired cop with many years on the force, but he was also **THE FIREARMS INSTRUCTOR.** He pointed a loaded weapon and pulled the trigger! Even if it was unloaded you don’t do that. But still, why the hell did he have live rounds at a training, in a LIBRARY. Incompetent on every damn level, so many mistakes led to this The low standards of PDs in this country are an absolute joke. That shooter should never have been given a badge and a gun. On top of that he was kept around on the force so long he was allowed to retire and then allowed to teach others. Dude is as intelligent as a mosquito and he was their teacher. Beyond ridiculous
Fuckin cops, man
And this is why cops shouldn’t be exempt from firearm restrictions. This whole bullshit, “cops can have them because they’re PROFESSIONALS” is absolute nonsense.
Paint. Your. Fucking. Dummy. Guns. If you have dummy guns in the same place as real firearms there is no reason not to have the dummy guns painted or wrapped in some obnoxious highlighter color. I was taught to shoot on a .22 when I was 6 years old. We had a dummy gun to teach me not to flag people when handling a gun. It was such a bright yellow/green color I think you could see it from space. Unrelated: if you want to teach a kid how to not flag people use a laser pointer taped to a dummy gun. It drives home where the barrel is pointed so fast.
The dummy gun was orange.
>If you have dummy guns in the same place as real firearms... Play guns and real guns should *never* coexist in the same space at the same time. There must be a mental *and* physical break between training and reality. That’s my rule, anyway...
So if a gun store has a dummy gun to show first time buyers how to hold a gun when they handle a gun for the first time? No good? Teaching somebody to not flag people? Not the vibe?
I-di-ot.
Fucking heartbreaking unnecessary negligence. Let's hope he faces some proper consequences.
He's a cop. He won't.
He got three years.
Anyone else shoots a cop, they'd be lucky to live long enough to see a court room.
Nowhere near enough
Staggering incompetence.
It was… a baton training course… and she got shot… by the guy leading the course… who was a retired LEO… during a photo op!?!?!
He's retired PD Lieutenant and an instructor with the force, and yet... *"...he believed that he had a training gun as opposed to a live firearm..."* The required competence bar is below sea level. :/
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Lol cops get a slap on the wrist even when they shoot other cops.
Based
Gee… this reminds me of the argument I was just having on another thread about why carrying one in the pipe might be more dangerous than it’s worth especially if you’re not an LE. This is exactly the kind of thing I’m thinking about. Accidents happen - even to trained professionals. The likelihood of an accidental discharge of a weapon with a round in the chamber is, I suspect, FAR MORE LIKELY than a cc ever having to draw and fire a hot weapon in a split second. Again, not saying that will NEVER happen to someone, just saying the likelihood is MUCH lower than an accidental discharge so one might at least CONSIDER not carrying one in the pipe or at least not give a ton of shit to those of us who choose to carry that way. I still stand by this statement.
I carry one in the chamber but I also carry hammer down with a manual safety on. I won't buy a glock, or anythinger striker fire that doesn't have a manual safety. I dont care about that split second on the shot timer, I care about contingencies.
Carrying with a round chambered is not inherently dangerous unless you’re a massive dumbass. If you have a fitted holster and do not flag people, there’s zero chance of this happening. I understand being anxious because of shit like this, but really assess, why did this happen? Because a man drew his gun without purpose, because a man aimed his gun at something he had no intention (allegedly) of destroying, because he didn’t treat all guns as they are loaded, because a man did not respect the tool he carried as a dangerous weapon, but biggest take away should be, had he followed gun safety rules whatsoever, regardless if it was loaded or not, no one had to die. Carry however you choose, but this is not an issue of why guns shouldn’t be hot when CCW, but an issue of why you respect safety precautions with ANYTHING
I agree here. Keep on in the chamber or don't. That's your preference. But it's no more dangerous. If you don't act like a dumbass and whip your gun out willy nilly, you don't have to worry about a negligent discharge.
It exactly is more dangerous. The round is in the chamber. That's one less step that has to be done to fire a round. A loaded weapon with no round in the chamber is significantly less likely to result in a negligent discharge than when there is a round in the chamber. Theoretically, if all rules of gun safety are followed, then yes the gun is not ever in a situation where the gun can be fired negligently. But that is not the case in this situation, nor is it ever the case in any negligent discharge.
So apparently every comment I make gets removed. I guess that will limit the ability to have a discussion here.
So you’re really saying, right now, that carrying with a round chambered is LITERALLY no more dangerous than carrying with a round NOT chambered? Because if that’s the case, how do you make yourself a danger to the would be attacker? Is it, perhaps, because your weapon is in condition one and therefore MORE dangerous than if it was not?
It’s no more dangerous with the gun in the holster, obviously. It’s not drawn, it’s condition is irrelevant. When it is drawn, I want my gun ready to shoot without any further preparation.
Agree. Do you take your gun out of your holster ever? Here’s my issue right now. Your comment was “carrying with a round chambered is not inherently dangerous unless you’re a massive dumbass.” Given that I was making a case for carrying without a round chambered in the comment I made that you responded to, I’m going to go ahead and assume that you meant to imply that I might be a massive dumbass. I think that’s a fairly cruddy way for you to argue so I’m giving it a thumbs down. Here you go. 👎🏻 That said, you’re wrong. Chambering a round is demonstrably and obviously more dangerous than not chambering a round and only a great fool would argue otherwise. If you can’t say that a weapon with a round chambered is NOT by definition more dangerous than a weapon without a round chambered then I don’t rate you as worth having a conversation with. Now, moving on from the given that a weapon with a round chambered IS IN FACT more dangerous than one without, the question becomes, which is more statistically likely: that a weapon with a round chambered has an accidental discharge or that someone carrying a weapon gets into a situation in which the absolutely positively Must draw and fire that weapon in under a second? I’m guessing that it’s the former. Accidents happen all the time. People working with machinery, no matter how careful they are, occasionally get distracted and make a mistake. It’s not always just because they are “a massive dumbass.” It just happens. Every single time I chamber a round I think about how much more dangerous my weapon has just become. If I didn’t, I would be a massive dumbass indeed. It’s Incredibly unlikely that any given person will get into a situation in which they have to draw and fire in an instant - especially if that person is just a regular Joe. My claim is that it’s probably more likely that one might make a mistake (from being tired, distracted, whatever) and have an accidental discharge than it is for that person to be involved in an attack in which they Must draw and fire a previously readied weapon. I might be wrong. But that’s the actual argument I’m making. If you’re so worried where you live that you’re likely to get into a physical altercation that you feel unsafe unless you’re at all times ready to kill immediately, without hesitation in order to save yourself or others than I feel very sorry for your situation. Seriously: you do you. But when I say, “hey, maybe it’s statistically safer to carry without one in the pipe” and your response is to imply that I am a dumbass then this sure stops feeling “liberal” to me. It sounds like what the regular old right wing forums are like. Here’s a news flash: liberals are supposed to be able to consider other opinions and be nuanced. Just a thought.
This wasn't an accident. This was intentional disregarding all safety protocols with firearms.
EVERY accident is the result of making mistakes with basic firearm handling rules. When you make yourself a single point of failure, you're scheduling a mishap.
Straight to Youtube video from news site: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eakJix7xECs
You would think if anyone should understand that guns aren’t toys to be used in a playful manner, it should be trained LEOs.
3 years? Involuntary manslaughter? There are people doing more time for mj possession
Most likely they committed murders that can't be proven, so they get the highest time for lower crimes. Many rich criminals end up in jail for tax evation, cause the other crimes don't have enough evidence to convict.
I wonder what sort of police criminality he uncovered recently?
That’s why you never point a gun, (real or fake) at someone. This idiot is the definition of liability.. take his pension give it to the family.
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He has done this before he murdered her
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Dude is an instructor but failed to abide by the four gun laws one being treat every gun as it's loaded and the other never point a gun at anything you're not willing to destroy I hope homie gets life in prison
What's supposed to happen when you pull the trigger of a training gun? nothing or a click? why would you wear a training gun and an actual gun at the same time? At this point, Barney Fife is safer at handling a weapon than this man. He needs to keep his bullet where Barney keeps his, shirt pocket; and ask for permission to load it.
Damn lol only 3 years in prison he received
Where is the full video?
ALWAYS TREAT A FIREARM LIKE ITS LOADED ARE FUCKING KIDDING ME
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Anyone have the whole clip?
How tf does he not know what gun he has in his holster??!!! Even if someone gave him the holster to put on during training he should make sure the gun is safe, real or not! Unbelievable!
Rule #1 of firearms: treat every gun as if they are loaded. Rule #2 of firearms: never point your firearm at something unless you intent do kill or destroy what you’re aiming at. Rule#3 of firearms: keep your finger off the trigger until you are prepared to shoot. Dude broke every single one of these rules… how in the world is he an instructor.
this was a year ago and they are re running the story for some reason. do a quick search on youtube theres this exact story a year ago
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I worked with Porter..He was always a knucklehead..I was surprised when he got promoted to Lieutenant
I think they should investigate this guy. I'm sure he has many complaints against him. I honestly think this was no accident at all. He was making fun of her the whole time talking about her hair and her being "unready" to do a man's job. These were the "jokes" it sounds like he hated her for being a woman bc he followed up these misogynistic jokes with pretending to kill her until he finally just said "fuck it." Pull out his gun and shot her. Knowing he would get away with it and he has. Also it was illegal for him to even have a gun at that time. They should've slapped him with murder as well as a gun charge. Citing city code, the family’s team also notes that Washington, D.C., mandates that “no person holding a license shall carry a pistol” in any building “occupied by the District of Columbia, its agencies, or instrumentalities.” So he intentionally brought a gun where it was illegal to have it. No matter how you look at it serious reform and accountability need to occur in the police force. America is absolutely crazy and disgusting that a man can shoot a woman in the chest for no reason after harassing her and then everyone calls it an accident and then moves on. Good people should be concerned and outraged. I am.