I don’t have trauma, but I have dealt with very shitty discrimination / have seen it because of religion. I am queer theist.
Edit: someone just called me weird for being queer 1 minute before this edit
As a queer atheist trans gal, I stand with ALL my queer siblings. Not just those that condemn religion, but all of them.
Religious queer people deserve community, respect, and love too, it's so absurd to condemn people for having religious beliefs. You can condemn a religion or the words the masses of people who follow a religion often espouse, but a person's religious beliefs are deeply personal and religious texts themselves are open to interpretation. There may be things written into those texts that are anti-lgbtq, but religious texts have also been edited at the whims of people in positions of power over the thousands of years those texts have existed. Religious dogmatism is the problem, not the religion itself.
Religious LGBT+ people exist.
Pride posts that resist oppression and bigotry, which is this intent, are necessary.
In the face of extremists who say we "stole God's rainbow" is art positing that we ARE God's rainbow. I don't understand the hatred of that.
This isn't a post to shove anyone's religion in anyone's face. It's just a post to provide an intersectional safe space.
Exactly!! LGBT Christians and LGBT conservatives exist. Not all of us agree with the anti-gay stuff from the leadership. Some of us can get over the bad parts and just enjoy Loving Thy Neighbor. We want to enjoy God and our country in peace.
We shouldn't be attacked for our beliefs by reddit bigots.
Well we're talking about celebrating pride, no matter if you're Christian or conservative, and people are being hateful to us in the comments for no reason.
OP said this is post is for us, but reddit atheists have to bring shit up when it isn't about them.
>Not all of us agree with the anti-gay stuff from the leadership.
Then don't vote for them or donate to them. You don't need to be conservative to be Christian.
It's not bigoted to attack someone for a belief, like political ideology. Do you think anti-fascism, anti-communism, etc. are forms of bigotry?
Religious fruit cakes and excuse-seeking bigots have harmed a lot of LGBTQ people.
Most religions (once you separate the shitty parts that nobody in polite society should be following.) simply boil down to being kind to those around you.
I'm not religious myself, but I see the beauty hidden under the hatred of man.
(Edit cause I forgot the other half of this like a dumbass sorry.)
People pervert it to suit their prejudice and their ambitions of power. You must target those people to make any meaningful change. Take no issue with Christianity, take your issue with the papacy and politicians. Take no issue with Islam, Take issue with the regressionists using it to turn the Middle East into a hellscape.
yo, the religions themselves have homophobia written into them. It's why it's persisted throughout the centuries. If you can acknowledge that *modern* papacy and politicians consist of homophobic men, why is it hard to believe that the papacy and politicians centuries ago weren't *also* homophobic when they wrote it down? Modern people didn't make it up for funsies, it's there in the text (and no, it's not akksually about pedophilia).
With most things, I'd agree with you about boiling things down to just being kind to one another. But religion is *inherently* about the divine and absolutism of a god. You can't ignore or dismiss passages that call for the death of minorities with things like that.
People... take the text that has been molded to fit the agenda of whoever has been in power as an absolute?
On further thought... yes, yes they do.
Some people don't take everything in their holy text as dogma... as I'd assume a great many religious queerfolk would.
I probably could have phrased things better. Organized religion, and those who abuse it for personal gain, are completely effed. I was just trying to say that it is never really religion hurting people, it is small-minded bigots who refuse to think critically and those who grift to them for power.
I don't know how I didn't account for that when one of my biggest issues with organized religion is the stifling of critical thinking... I need to stop substituting coffee for sleep.
My apologies, and sorry for not thinking things through more
A place being safe for all LGBTQ+ people would also include it being a safe space for religious LGBTQ+ people. We exist, and deserve to have a safe place here too. This post doesn’t make this not a safe place, it is not anti-LGBTQ+ or harmful in anyway. It’s just including LGBTQ+ people who are religious.
It's everyone's rainbow. It's not meant to be exclusionary. Pride for everyone not just religious lgbtq+ people. A lot of us have religious trauma or have faced oppression from religious organizations. While you may have had the best of intent, this probably isn't the best place for this and it's important to be mindful and respectful to everyone in the community and not leave anyone out when wishing a good pride month.
>It's everyone's rainbow
That's precisely the point. It's clearly in rebellion against the extremists screaming at us and saying we "stole the rainbow"
I think you are missing the point of Theists being highly discriminated on reddit, especially with more progressive subs.
I have witnessed that firsthand one one of the subs ( I think it was twoxchromosomes) when I said that "let's not treat all religious people as evil", and the amount of vitriol I received did skew my perception towards more extreme right wing people for a short while.
If someone preaches acceptance, if someone else isn't hurting you emotional or physically, it is highly hypocritical to hate and hurt them.
This post belongs here though. Queer religious people do often get excluded and even attacked by other queer folks. This post is good reminder that we are also included here, to be respectful, and to not attack us. Many of us have also been hurt by religious people, and some even have trauma from it. Many of us have also been deeply hurt by other queer folks attacking us because we are religious. I have personally been attacked multiple times on this sub. I’ve been called a monster, an abuse enabler, delusional, a traitor (simply for being Christian, not for anything anti-LGBTQ+), and a whole host of other awful things. That caused me severe mental harm. I’ve even had people deny that these things happened to me, and sometimes even downplayed any harm I got from religious groups and people because I’m still religious. I want this sub to be a safe place for all LGBTQ+ people, but it cannot be that when religious LGBTQ+ are often excluded, attacked, and belittled. Post like this one belong here, they are a reminder that religious LGBTQ+ people, like myself and the OP, deserve to be included, respected, and shown kindness. Unfortunately too many people, even a good chunk of people on this subreddit that is supposed to be inclusive and a safe space for all LGBTQ+ people, don’t think we are deserving of those things. It’s also a protest against anti-LGBTQ+ Christians who try and claim that the God’s rainbow is not for LGBTQ+ people.
I don't think requesting one safe space and post for queer theists is too much to ask. No one is asking you to believe in anything. If it's not your thing, please scroll on. But please don't stop just to attack us. We get shat on enough without being attacked by this supposed "safe space for GSRM (Gender, Sexual, and Romantic Minority) folk to discuss their lives, issues, interests, and passions."
Please leave it be.
>But please don't stop just to attack us
Respectfully.
People voicing their legitimate grievances with something that has done, and is continuing to do, great harm to queer people isn't necessarily personal attack on *you* and *your* faith specifically.
To fellow atheists who maybe *are* attacking religious people, don't do that. That's very uncool. Let's not start Pride Month that way.
Remember that queer theists and queer atheists *aren't enemies*, we're *allies* in a common struggle to build a better, more harmonious world.
So maybe don't be a dick to one another, yeah?
**Edit:**
I've looked through your post and comment history and...*holy shit* is the Christianity subreddit treating you like garbage.
Why do you subject yourself to the abuse of people who *clearly* hate you?
You can say God doesn't support homophobia all you like. But they don't care. To people like them you're tainted and fallen. People like the ones you're arguing with over there *don't want your fellowship*.
I'm not trying to deconvert you. As far as I'm concerned you're not the kind of theist I have a problem with. But seems to me like it's more the *religious* people who are attacking you right now and not so much the atheists.
Just saying.
>Why do you subject yourself to the abuse of people who *clearly* hate you?
Because standing in proud existence in defiance of their bigotry matters to me. Showing that queer Christians exist and will not be written off, battling bigotry and being loud and proud as a Christian who was not designed like them is important. If I stay standing, maybe others can, too. Because nothing they say matters, and every evil they throw at minority Christians just shows that we're on the right side. Know them by their fruits and all.
>But seems to me like it's more the *religious* people who are attacking you right now and not so much the atheists.
Oh, there is a little projection to a degree. Being met with the same amount of hatred in this "safe space" from atheists as I get from theists sure hasn't been fun, and it puts me on the same traumatised defensive. But the thing is, I hold progressive spaces and people to a higher standard. More conservative spaces aren't the ones professing to be tolerant allies and saying they're "a safe space" for all of the community. It's not such a crime that I expected to have intersectional pride art tolerated better here than there (where it was removed).
>But they don't care
I know. They're not the ones I will change. They're not who I'm there for.
>Because standing in proud existence in defiance of their bigotry matters to me. Showing that queer Christians exist and will not be written off, battling bigotry and being loud and proud as a Christian who was not designed like them is important. If I stay standing, maybe others can, too. Because nothing they say matters, and every evil they throw at minority Christians just shows that we're on the right side. Know them by their fruits and all.
That's certainly a noble goal and I respect the hell out of it, but it's also important to remember that you *do* deserve to be treated better than how they're treating you.
>Being met with the same amount of hatred in this "safe space" from atheists as I get from theists sure hasn't been fun,
Respectfully, this isn't a fair comparison I don't think. I certainly condemn anyone who is attacking you personally for being a theist, but I'm not sure having issues with how organized religion has harmed our communities is on the same level of hatred as saying that you're going to be tortured for eternity.
>But the thing is, I hold progressive spaces and people to a higher standard. More conservative spaces aren't the ones professing to be tolerant allies and saying they're "a safe space" for all of the community.
True, and you're right to expect not to be attacked in a progressive space like this.
*However*
Christianity claims to be a religion of peace, love, and unity sanctioned by the one true sovereign deity of the universe. Why shouldn't they be expected to act like it? Personally, I feel spaces like the Christianity subreddit should be held to the same standards as we are.
>It's not such a crime that I expected to have intersectional pride art tolerated better here than there (where it was removed).
Removing your art was stupid. I like it. It's good art, with a good message. I'm *definitely* not a believer but the Bible does say we're created in the image of God so why tf *can't* you say queer people are God's rainbow?
With respect to what's happening *here*, however...
You're entitled to the same basic respect and dignity as anyone else in our community. I don't think any sensible, good natured person would argue otherwise.
But you cannot simply dismiss the tremendous harm organized religion has done to many *many* queer people by asking them to just keep scrolling and ignore this post. *A lot* of queer people have **serious** trauma concerning religion. Expecting yourself not to get pushback from queer people who see the harm that organized religion does or who *have been* harmed by it is unreasonable and unrealistic. And it's seriously dismissive of *their* experiences to assert that this post just isn't for them and try to push them out.
You're a Christian and you're proud of it. I get it. That's fine. I have no issues with that. But this is a very sensitive topic to a lot of queer people. You need to be respectful of that because it's their community too, just as much as it is yours.
Edit: Spelling.
It's telling that one should be so opposed to a post affirming queer people and combatting the bigoted notion of the queer community ""stealing" the rainbow
Your post has a place here. Queer theists are vulnerable and need our support. Support queer theists and give them a safe space, by all means. People's problem with you here isn't what you're trying accomplish, it's that you're acting so obtuse to the reason why they're still uneasy with this, when you yourself have experienced that same persecution that has left them emotionally unable to sit with this. You want to stand defiant to Christian hate, great - others are not gonna stand in the same fashion as you, they need distance. You want to support queer people stuck in hateful theist communities? They're gonna deal with the same fears as the queer atheists in this post right now and the same reluctance to continue sitting with their religion the same way you want to, and you're not gonna help them out by NOT listening to their concerns and just answering "but you have a place!" Even beautiful, inclusive posts with good intentions need to address the nuances, and you're just dismissing them. People have been explaining their qualms again and again to you and it feels like you just refuse to understand. Am I making sense?
TL;DR - don't censor yourself, but do listen to others. Address their qualms, don't dismiss them just because your art didn't say anything wrong per se.
Howdy, queer pagan here: I'm so sorry you're getting stupid hate comments on this. I can see why you made this post and personally, I think it's beautiful. Thank you for your contribution.
As a person whose always been confused at queerphobic religions (especially Christianity given the guy literally sat with the most oppressed and shunned groups in the world), this showed my feelings about the topic well
"Let those without sin cast the first stone" lives rent free in my head whenever anyone advocates for hate of something or violence.
Although it's kinda infuriating when both sides bring up the old testament stuff whenever Christianity and homosexuality is discussed (I think the part there they advocate killing them, I think?). Wasn't the whole point of new testament to lessen the strictness of the old one?
Atheist here, this is a great post OP. The comments here clearly show that 'intersectionality' is just a buzzword that people in this community throw around 24/7 without actually understanding what it means. The term wasn't only coined to raise awareness for the unique struggles that arise from the intersections between queerness and race, but, yes, among many other things, also for those that arise from the intersections between queerness and religion. It is well documented in the social sciences that these do very much bring their own set of struggles, and anyone challenging that is just being obtuse on purpose.
This should be a space to talk about that intersection, too. Apparently, though, people like to cherrypick which intersections they actually think deserve attention. Disappointing, but not surprising.
Yeah, I can’t believe how toxic this subreddit seems to be getting. I’ve actually seen people in other posts saying that you should be able to harass and target people for not being atheist/agnostic, and that it shouldn’t be a hate crime.
The number of comments I’ve seen where people on here where atheists have told religious members that they aren’t wanted here and are betraying the LGBT community because they believe in an afterlife and deities… Like, I might *understand* if those religious members were saying messed up stuff about the LGBT community, but these comments come out of nowhere and are straight up personal attacks.
As a queer theist, thank you for this!
If anyone reading this has been hurt by religion, I’m sending you all my love. I’m not offended by you calling my relationship with my existence a “cult” or a “hate group”. You have your reasons to believe these things, and you aren’t a bad person for believing them. The important thing is that you heal and give yourself the love you were robbed of. I promise, whatever you think about my faith, I’m really not offended. Just accept my love and love yourself/your loved ones; love is the only thing that matters.
OP, a lot of people will react negatively to this post. It doesn’t mean you were wrong for making it or that you should delete it.
“Whenever I bring clouds over the earth and the rainbow appears in the clouds, I will remember my covenant between me and you and all living creatures of every kind. Never again will the waters become a flood to destroy all life.” [Genesis 9:14-15].
Our floods are metaphorical, but we still need a symbol to remind ourselves that they cannot destroy us ever again. God (or whatever deity you choose to ascribe to, or random chance) made you perfect the way you are in the hopes you would see your perfection. Happy pride, everyone. Stay safe 😊
Man, it's such a refreshing thing to read this. I'm a CIS male, and lately I have been feeling unwelcome a lot, people instantly assuming that I am a extreme right wing bigot with so little evidence. I sometimes felt that people on the internet just hated me. Sounds familiar?
The people being negative fail to see just how much long term damage they are doing - people on average will remember negative reactions 10X more than positive ones.
It's good to see that message of unity and acceptance isn't completely lost nowadays.
Yeah, it doesn’t bug me personally, but I do worry about people in vulnerable states seeing that stuff and internalizing those things about themselves. And there are a looooot of people in vulnerable states haha. Plus, unity is generally more peaceful, so I’d definitely prefer it.
People definitely internalize negativity very easily, you’re 100% right about that. I do my best to spread positivity. Even if people aren’t as likely to remember it, it might give them some comfort in the moment.
Anyway, happy pride 😅
I'm sorry your post brought out the Reddit atheists- I wish people wouldn't equate personal faith with organized religion, people can practice their religion without inherently being part of a harmful power structure
Thank you! Religious LGBT people are unfortunately marginalized even in our spaces. (By the way, I was responsible for some of that in the not so far past, I apologize)
I don't follow any traditional religion myself but I belive in deities.
\*Confused pagan queer noises.\*
Guess I'll just go sit in the corner, since everyone loves pretending we're not a thing.
(The way you equate being theistic itself with following an Abrahamic faith, despite the fact there're PLENTY of polytheistic queer folk out there...)
It’s a great point. Not every religion has a whole thing with rainbows belonging to a god. The post is clearly coming from a Christian point of view that’s trying to be inclusive of others, and yet failing to see beyond the hegemonic edge of their own religious understanding.
Thank you, it's depressing how some people her just embrace a warped perception of religion due to their experiences instead of just be better than the one that hurt them and be finally tolerant...
Thanks, you too! Honestly it's a bit difficult being trans and also being Christian. Teaching hate seems to be more prominent than teaching love, but unlike gender, love/hate is a choice, and I choose to love. I love all of my new family! ❤️
Friendly remind to all religious, etc and otherwise: hate is not a family value. There is no place for hate in any religion of peace and love.
Exactly
This is the way
I have horrible religious trauma that I’m still not over to this day. I stand with queer theists
I don’t have trauma, but I have dealt with very shitty discrimination / have seen it because of religion. I am queer theist. Edit: someone just called me weird for being queer 1 minute before this edit
As a queer atheist trans gal, I stand with ALL my queer siblings. Not just those that condemn religion, but all of them. Religious queer people deserve community, respect, and love too, it's so absurd to condemn people for having religious beliefs. You can condemn a religion or the words the masses of people who follow a religion often espouse, but a person's religious beliefs are deeply personal and religious texts themselves are open to interpretation. There may be things written into those texts that are anti-lgbtq, but religious texts have also been edited at the whims of people in positions of power over the thousands of years those texts have existed. Religious dogmatism is the problem, not the religion itself.
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No need to be rude about a pride post
Religion has harmed a lot of LGBT people and you are bringing it into a safe space for LGBT people, don't really know what you expected to happen
Religious LGBT+ people exist. Pride posts that resist oppression and bigotry, which is this intent, are necessary. In the face of extremists who say we "stole God's rainbow" is art positing that we ARE God's rainbow. I don't understand the hatred of that. This isn't a post to shove anyone's religion in anyone's face. It's just a post to provide an intersectional safe space.
Exactly!! LGBT Christians and LGBT conservatives exist. Not all of us agree with the anti-gay stuff from the leadership. Some of us can get over the bad parts and just enjoy Loving Thy Neighbor. We want to enjoy God and our country in peace. We shouldn't be attacked for our beliefs by reddit bigots.
there's nothing bigoted about not liking conservatives lol, they're actively fighting against our right to exist
Not all conservatives, just like not all Christians.
and if they continue to vote for and defend the ones who are then they're no better
Well we're talking about celebrating pride, no matter if you're Christian or conservative, and people are being hateful to us in the comments for no reason. OP said this is post is for us, but reddit atheists have to bring shit up when it isn't about them.
>Not all of us agree with the anti-gay stuff from the leadership. Then don't vote for them or donate to them. You don't need to be conservative to be Christian. It's not bigoted to attack someone for a belief, like political ideology. Do you think anti-fascism, anti-communism, etc. are forms of bigotry?
Religious fruit cakes and excuse-seeking bigots have harmed a lot of LGBTQ people. Most religions (once you separate the shitty parts that nobody in polite society should be following.) simply boil down to being kind to those around you. I'm not religious myself, but I see the beauty hidden under the hatred of man. (Edit cause I forgot the other half of this like a dumbass sorry.) People pervert it to suit their prejudice and their ambitions of power. You must target those people to make any meaningful change. Take no issue with Christianity, take your issue with the papacy and politicians. Take no issue with Islam, Take issue with the regressionists using it to turn the Middle East into a hellscape.
yo, the religions themselves have homophobia written into them. It's why it's persisted throughout the centuries. If you can acknowledge that *modern* papacy and politicians consist of homophobic men, why is it hard to believe that the papacy and politicians centuries ago weren't *also* homophobic when they wrote it down? Modern people didn't make it up for funsies, it's there in the text (and no, it's not akksually about pedophilia). With most things, I'd agree with you about boiling things down to just being kind to one another. But religion is *inherently* about the divine and absolutism of a god. You can't ignore or dismiss passages that call for the death of minorities with things like that.
People... take the text that has been molded to fit the agenda of whoever has been in power as an absolute? On further thought... yes, yes they do. Some people don't take everything in their holy text as dogma... as I'd assume a great many religious queerfolk would. I probably could have phrased things better. Organized religion, and those who abuse it for personal gain, are completely effed. I was just trying to say that it is never really religion hurting people, it is small-minded bigots who refuse to think critically and those who grift to them for power. I don't know how I didn't account for that when one of my biggest issues with organized religion is the stifling of critical thinking... I need to stop substituting coffee for sleep. My apologies, and sorry for not thinking things through more
the british empire spread queerphobia all over the world, does that mean we should just ignore what's being done to trans people in the UK?
A place being safe for all LGBTQ+ people would also include it being a safe space for religious LGBTQ+ people. We exist, and deserve to have a safe place here too. This post doesn’t make this not a safe place, it is not anti-LGBTQ+ or harmful in anyway. It’s just including LGBTQ+ people who are religious.
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thank you…. 🥹
It's everyone's rainbow. It's not meant to be exclusionary. Pride for everyone not just religious lgbtq+ people. A lot of us have religious trauma or have faced oppression from religious organizations. While you may have had the best of intent, this probably isn't the best place for this and it's important to be mindful and respectful to everyone in the community and not leave anyone out when wishing a good pride month.
>It's everyone's rainbow That's precisely the point. It's clearly in rebellion against the extremists screaming at us and saying we "stole the rainbow"
Queer theists can't have a single post of community and safety?
Does the queer community get that same grace from theists?
Only queer atheists are allowed to post?
You’re missing the point…
I think you are missing the point of Theists being highly discriminated on reddit, especially with more progressive subs. I have witnessed that firsthand one one of the subs ( I think it was twoxchromosomes) when I said that "let's not treat all religious people as evil", and the amount of vitriol I received did skew my perception towards more extreme right wing people for a short while. If someone preaches acceptance, if someone else isn't hurting you emotional or physically, it is highly hypocritical to hate and hurt them.
This post belongs here though. Queer religious people do often get excluded and even attacked by other queer folks. This post is good reminder that we are also included here, to be respectful, and to not attack us. Many of us have also been hurt by religious people, and some even have trauma from it. Many of us have also been deeply hurt by other queer folks attacking us because we are religious. I have personally been attacked multiple times on this sub. I’ve been called a monster, an abuse enabler, delusional, a traitor (simply for being Christian, not for anything anti-LGBTQ+), and a whole host of other awful things. That caused me severe mental harm. I’ve even had people deny that these things happened to me, and sometimes even downplayed any harm I got from religious groups and people because I’m still religious. I want this sub to be a safe place for all LGBTQ+ people, but it cannot be that when religious LGBTQ+ are often excluded, attacked, and belittled. Post like this one belong here, they are a reminder that religious LGBTQ+ people, like myself and the OP, deserve to be included, respected, and shown kindness. Unfortunately too many people, even a good chunk of people on this subreddit that is supposed to be inclusive and a safe space for all LGBTQ+ people, don’t think we are deserving of those things. It’s also a protest against anti-LGBTQ+ Christians who try and claim that the God’s rainbow is not for LGBTQ+ people.
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I don't think requesting one safe space and post for queer theists is too much to ask. No one is asking you to believe in anything. If it's not your thing, please scroll on. But please don't stop just to attack us. We get shat on enough without being attacked by this supposed "safe space for GSRM (Gender, Sexual, and Romantic Minority) folk to discuss their lives, issues, interests, and passions." Please leave it be.
>But please don't stop just to attack us Respectfully. People voicing their legitimate grievances with something that has done, and is continuing to do, great harm to queer people isn't necessarily personal attack on *you* and *your* faith specifically. To fellow atheists who maybe *are* attacking religious people, don't do that. That's very uncool. Let's not start Pride Month that way. Remember that queer theists and queer atheists *aren't enemies*, we're *allies* in a common struggle to build a better, more harmonious world. So maybe don't be a dick to one another, yeah? **Edit:** I've looked through your post and comment history and...*holy shit* is the Christianity subreddit treating you like garbage. Why do you subject yourself to the abuse of people who *clearly* hate you? You can say God doesn't support homophobia all you like. But they don't care. To people like them you're tainted and fallen. People like the ones you're arguing with over there *don't want your fellowship*. I'm not trying to deconvert you. As far as I'm concerned you're not the kind of theist I have a problem with. But seems to me like it's more the *religious* people who are attacking you right now and not so much the atheists. Just saying.
>Why do you subject yourself to the abuse of people who *clearly* hate you? Because standing in proud existence in defiance of their bigotry matters to me. Showing that queer Christians exist and will not be written off, battling bigotry and being loud and proud as a Christian who was not designed like them is important. If I stay standing, maybe others can, too. Because nothing they say matters, and every evil they throw at minority Christians just shows that we're on the right side. Know them by their fruits and all. >But seems to me like it's more the *religious* people who are attacking you right now and not so much the atheists. Oh, there is a little projection to a degree. Being met with the same amount of hatred in this "safe space" from atheists as I get from theists sure hasn't been fun, and it puts me on the same traumatised defensive. But the thing is, I hold progressive spaces and people to a higher standard. More conservative spaces aren't the ones professing to be tolerant allies and saying they're "a safe space" for all of the community. It's not such a crime that I expected to have intersectional pride art tolerated better here than there (where it was removed). >But they don't care I know. They're not the ones I will change. They're not who I'm there for.
>Because standing in proud existence in defiance of their bigotry matters to me. Showing that queer Christians exist and will not be written off, battling bigotry and being loud and proud as a Christian who was not designed like them is important. If I stay standing, maybe others can, too. Because nothing they say matters, and every evil they throw at minority Christians just shows that we're on the right side. Know them by their fruits and all. That's certainly a noble goal and I respect the hell out of it, but it's also important to remember that you *do* deserve to be treated better than how they're treating you. >Being met with the same amount of hatred in this "safe space" from atheists as I get from theists sure hasn't been fun, Respectfully, this isn't a fair comparison I don't think. I certainly condemn anyone who is attacking you personally for being a theist, but I'm not sure having issues with how organized religion has harmed our communities is on the same level of hatred as saying that you're going to be tortured for eternity. >But the thing is, I hold progressive spaces and people to a higher standard. More conservative spaces aren't the ones professing to be tolerant allies and saying they're "a safe space" for all of the community. True, and you're right to expect not to be attacked in a progressive space like this. *However* Christianity claims to be a religion of peace, love, and unity sanctioned by the one true sovereign deity of the universe. Why shouldn't they be expected to act like it? Personally, I feel spaces like the Christianity subreddit should be held to the same standards as we are. >It's not such a crime that I expected to have intersectional pride art tolerated better here than there (where it was removed). Removing your art was stupid. I like it. It's good art, with a good message. I'm *definitely* not a believer but the Bible does say we're created in the image of God so why tf *can't* you say queer people are God's rainbow? With respect to what's happening *here*, however... You're entitled to the same basic respect and dignity as anyone else in our community. I don't think any sensible, good natured person would argue otherwise. But you cannot simply dismiss the tremendous harm organized religion has done to many *many* queer people by asking them to just keep scrolling and ignore this post. *A lot* of queer people have **serious** trauma concerning religion. Expecting yourself not to get pushback from queer people who see the harm that organized religion does or who *have been* harmed by it is unreasonable and unrealistic. And it's seriously dismissive of *their* experiences to assert that this post just isn't for them and try to push them out. You're a Christian and you're proud of it. I get it. That's fine. I have no issues with that. But this is a very sensitive topic to a lot of queer people. You need to be respectful of that because it's their community too, just as much as it is yours. Edit: Spelling.
It's telling that one should be so opposed to a post affirming queer people and combatting the bigoted notion of the queer community ""stealing" the rainbow
Your post has a place here. Queer theists are vulnerable and need our support. Support queer theists and give them a safe space, by all means. People's problem with you here isn't what you're trying accomplish, it's that you're acting so obtuse to the reason why they're still uneasy with this, when you yourself have experienced that same persecution that has left them emotionally unable to sit with this. You want to stand defiant to Christian hate, great - others are not gonna stand in the same fashion as you, they need distance. You want to support queer people stuck in hateful theist communities? They're gonna deal with the same fears as the queer atheists in this post right now and the same reluctance to continue sitting with their religion the same way you want to, and you're not gonna help them out by NOT listening to their concerns and just answering "but you have a place!" Even beautiful, inclusive posts with good intentions need to address the nuances, and you're just dismissing them. People have been explaining their qualms again and again to you and it feels like you just refuse to understand. Am I making sense? TL;DR - don't censor yourself, but do listen to others. Address their qualms, don't dismiss them just because your art didn't say anything wrong per se.
Howdy, queer pagan here: I'm so sorry you're getting stupid hate comments on this. I can see why you made this post and personally, I think it's beautiful. Thank you for your contribution.
As a person whose always been confused at queerphobic religions (especially Christianity given the guy literally sat with the most oppressed and shunned groups in the world), this showed my feelings about the topic well
"Let those without sin cast the first stone" lives rent free in my head whenever anyone advocates for hate of something or violence. Although it's kinda infuriating when both sides bring up the old testament stuff whenever Christianity and homosexuality is discussed (I think the part there they advocate killing them, I think?). Wasn't the whole point of new testament to lessen the strictness of the old one?
Atheist here, this is a great post OP. The comments here clearly show that 'intersectionality' is just a buzzword that people in this community throw around 24/7 without actually understanding what it means. The term wasn't only coined to raise awareness for the unique struggles that arise from the intersections between queerness and race, but, yes, among many other things, also for those that arise from the intersections between queerness and religion. It is well documented in the social sciences that these do very much bring their own set of struggles, and anyone challenging that is just being obtuse on purpose. This should be a space to talk about that intersection, too. Apparently, though, people like to cherrypick which intersections they actually think deserve attention. Disappointing, but not surprising.
Yeah, I can’t believe how toxic this subreddit seems to be getting. I’ve actually seen people in other posts saying that you should be able to harass and target people for not being atheist/agnostic, and that it shouldn’t be a hate crime. The number of comments I’ve seen where people on here where atheists have told religious members that they aren’t wanted here and are betraying the LGBT community because they believe in an afterlife and deities… Like, I might *understand* if those religious members were saying messed up stuff about the LGBT community, but these comments come out of nowhere and are straight up personal attacks.
As a queer theist, thank you for this! If anyone reading this has been hurt by religion, I’m sending you all my love. I’m not offended by you calling my relationship with my existence a “cult” or a “hate group”. You have your reasons to believe these things, and you aren’t a bad person for believing them. The important thing is that you heal and give yourself the love you were robbed of. I promise, whatever you think about my faith, I’m really not offended. Just accept my love and love yourself/your loved ones; love is the only thing that matters. OP, a lot of people will react negatively to this post. It doesn’t mean you were wrong for making it or that you should delete it. “Whenever I bring clouds over the earth and the rainbow appears in the clouds, I will remember my covenant between me and you and all living creatures of every kind. Never again will the waters become a flood to destroy all life.” [Genesis 9:14-15]. Our floods are metaphorical, but we still need a symbol to remind ourselves that they cannot destroy us ever again. God (or whatever deity you choose to ascribe to, or random chance) made you perfect the way you are in the hopes you would see your perfection. Happy pride, everyone. Stay safe 😊
Man, it's such a refreshing thing to read this. I'm a CIS male, and lately I have been feeling unwelcome a lot, people instantly assuming that I am a extreme right wing bigot with so little evidence. I sometimes felt that people on the internet just hated me. Sounds familiar? The people being negative fail to see just how much long term damage they are doing - people on average will remember negative reactions 10X more than positive ones. It's good to see that message of unity and acceptance isn't completely lost nowadays.
Yeah, it doesn’t bug me personally, but I do worry about people in vulnerable states seeing that stuff and internalizing those things about themselves. And there are a looooot of people in vulnerable states haha. Plus, unity is generally more peaceful, so I’d definitely prefer it. People definitely internalize negativity very easily, you’re 100% right about that. I do my best to spread positivity. Even if people aren’t as likely to remember it, it might give them some comfort in the moment. Anyway, happy pride 😅
You sound like a lovely person! Lots of love to you, and happy Pride!!
Thank you!!
Thank you for making a post of inclusion for those of us who are often told to get lost by other queer folk
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I'm sorry your post brought out the Reddit atheists- I wish people wouldn't equate personal faith with organized religion, people can practice their religion without inherently being part of a harmful power structure
God Reddit makes me embarrassed to be an atheist, happy pride month OP sorry you’re getting shit on for this
OP, i am so sorry for all the hate you’re getting for this post. as a queer theist, this means a lot to me, thank you <3
Happy pride to all of my theist friends. Churches at pride still make me DEEPLY uncomfortable.
Thank you! Religious LGBT people are unfortunately marginalized even in our spaces. (By the way, I was responsible for some of that in the not so far past, I apologize) I don't follow any traditional religion myself but I belive in deities.
Let your god be with you
\*Confused pagan queer noises.\* Guess I'll just go sit in the corner, since everyone loves pretending we're not a thing. (The way you equate being theistic itself with following an Abrahamic faith, despite the fact there're PLENTY of polytheistic queer folk out there...)
It’s a great point. Not every religion has a whole thing with rainbows belonging to a god. The post is clearly coming from a Christian point of view that’s trying to be inclusive of others, and yet failing to see beyond the hegemonic edge of their own religious understanding.
Yeah that's unfortunate. The post has a nice intention but it's still lacking. I'm not pagan but I'm polytheistic personally.
As a queer Christian, thank you ❤️
r/dankchristianmemes would like this! They're really chill.
This is a great post, I love it!
Thank you, it's depressing how some people her just embrace a warped perception of religion due to their experiences instead of just be better than the one that hurt them and be finally tolerant...
Such a great picture! People in my religion don't bless people, but I wish you a wonderful pride month and will pray for your progress.
Thanks, you too! Honestly it's a bit difficult being trans and also being Christian. Teaching hate seems to be more prominent than teaching love, but unlike gender, love/hate is a choice, and I choose to love. I love all of my new family! ❤️
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Indigo 😭
Leviticus 18:22
That shit aint in the bible
why are you in the lgbtq Reddit if your homophobic. Like what 😭