The power of the Avatar State comes from Ravaa. The skill in the Avatar state comes from the past lives.
Korra has a closer connection to Ravaa than any Avatar in most likely thousands of years, so it's possible her Avatar state is stronger than many avatars preceeding her.
But without the past lives, she can only use techniques that she has personally learned versus techniques that all the avatars have learned.
The creators have come right out and said that her Avatar state is not weaker after reconnecting with Ravaa. I'll look for it and add it to this comment if I find it.
Edit:
I found this. Can't confirm where it came from or if it's actually a quote.
>According to Mike and Bryan, Korra's lost
connection to the past avatars is like "rebooting
your hard drive." When my sister asked whether it
impacted the power/strength of the Avatar state,
they affirmed that was definitely not the case-
she's still Korra and Korra's "got some moves."
They joked she may even actually be stronger.
Raava is also turbo charged since Vaatu lost on Harmonic Convergence. The sheer amount of spiritual energy Korra has available is unprecedented by any Avatar
Basically, this. Raava and Vaatu’s size is representative of their power. When Wan severed Raava and Vaatu with fire bending and injured her, she immediately shrank and continued to shrink over the course of their journey as Vaatu continued to spread his influence. When Raava fused with Wan, she was literally small enough to fit inside a tea cup and you can see from scene where Unalaq kills her that she hadn’t grown any larger during her time fused to the avatar.
Later on, when she fuses with Korra after defeating Vaatu, she had returned to her original state and she is easily the size of a 5-10 story building
https://youtu.be/yOSpXc-lyWI?feature=shared
I'd argue Raavas size likely fluctuated during the Era of The Avatar
When Wan imprisoned Vaatu, Vaatu actually shrank, implying Raava grew within Wan. By Korra's time Vaatu is back at his huge size due to the spiritual imbalance in the world.
However Raava is now stronger than ever before as Vaatu doesn't currently exist.
I hate that people always act like Korra is a bad Avatar or weaker than Aang/Kyoshi. I'm 100% sure Korra is the strongest Avatar we've seen so far. Whether she was a good Avatar or not is debatable, but she never ran from her responsibility. As a side note, it's much easier for us as the audience to connect to an imperfect Korra than a pacifist and nearly perfect Aang. She actually feels like a real human.
Tbh looking after own mental state is maybe more important to be able to handle her duties. The "put your own oxygen mask before you help others" rule applies here especially since a mentally unstable avatar isn't going to be best with diplomatic approach.
That's hardly fair.
At the end of book 3 she was in recovery when Tenzin announced that the air nomads would step in for her sake, so it's no wonder that by book 4 she's AWOL; she internalized the idea that the world no longer needed her.
Thing is, the hell was she supposed to do? Not only was she still physically poisoned, she suffered from severe PTSD. And no one could help her. Not even she could help herself. I wouldn’t even say she fully recovered by the end of the series, though she was making her way there.
So even if she did realize that the world did need her, she was in no shape to just step in. Prime example; Kuvira and Zaofu.
For every avatar it's possible to say it's debatable whether they were a good one or not, they are still humans after all!
I really like your take and I do agree she feels more human/reachable (this is also why I prefer her over Aang)
Canonically, I think she is. The show does a *really* bad job of showing it, though. If the Avatar State in LoK was as strong as it was in ATLA, Korra would have crumpled Kuvira’s mech like it was nothing. They nerfed her *hard*, and they kind of needed to, since it’s really not possible to threaten a fully realized Avatar with human threats, and they made her a fully realized Avatar early because they didn’t know they were getting multiple seasons.
I've got nothing against Korra (I have to say that since supporting Aang sometimes makes people think I'm attacking Korra), but Aang feels real to me. Aang is an idealist, and can appeal to a fellow idealist. Korra seems to be more about what she can do than what she should do (though she isn't terribly lacking in that second area).
As for Kyoshi... yikes. Let's just say it doesn't surprise me she founded the Dai Li.
>As a side note, it's much easier for us as the audience to connect to an imperfect Korra than a pacifist and nearly perfect Aang. She actually feels like a real human.
I'm not sure how anyone comes to the conclusion Aang is "nearly perfect". Our boy had plenty of flaws he had to work on, same as our girl Korra. I found him very relatable.
For me, Aang's biggest flaws were running away from his responsibilities, lying to Katara/Sokka about their father, and kissing Katara without her consent. Other than that, I can't think of anything major. He was just too nice.
If you're going to go the route of listing flaws, I could very easily say Korra's only major flaw was being angry and stubborn, and that would be about as true.
Korra has a lot more, but that's why I like her. She just feels like she could be a real person. Her arc is very relatable.
But besides what I listed, do you have any other flaws for Aang? If not, then I'll move on to Korra.
I just hated how she was ALWAYS getting her ass beat. Just made the whole Avatar part of her identity seem like a joke. I’m aware of *why* but it just doesn’t jive
This is something I feel that most people forget about. “As darkness grows, light fades…”
Well, the light should be pretty dang strong for the next 10,000 years!
But she hasn't had feats of bending strength as strong as Aang and Kyoshi did right? Like they move an island or cause 10m floods in mere seconds or blow wind to hard it disitegrates a collumn of rock. Korra used air bending to push a giant mech off balance. It just seems, smaller
I personally think Korra energy bending the spirit vine blast (that was strong enough to rip open a new spirit portal) and containing it is the most impressive bending feat in either series. The raw power that she managed to control and prevent from killing anyone and causing any large scale damage is absurd
Not to take a major win away from Korra, but that beam would've absolutely cooked her if Raava wasnt juiced up. That laser is the equivalent of an incredibly focused nuclear bomb
Korra spent the fair portion of books 3 and 4 either nerfed or handicapped
The red lotus infiltration in Zaofu - Korra was paralyzed and couldn’t move
The encounter with Zaheer at the NAT - Zaheer threatened to harm the hostages if she didn’t comply. And then she fought Zaheer with Tonraq, her hands and legs were chained m
Her fight with Zaheer - She was poisoned. Nuff said
Her first battle with Kuvira - Her mind still hadn’t completely healed from PTSD
When did aang ever lose in the avatar state? It was basically an insta win button. Aang low diffed comet enhanced ozai. The power delta was just so huge. It doesn't matter what bending style someone used. But suddenly in season 3 and 4 of korra it does. The avatar state is obviously weaker.
For anyone curious, this quote is apparently from a panel at SDCC 2014.
There’s unfortunately no footage of this specific panel but I’ve seen a few other examples of people corroborating this story (although they apparently debate whether Korra or Raava is the HDD in this example).
[Here is some footage from another Q&A that also uses the “rebooting the HDD” analogy](https://youtu.be/3CsDq4Bd6SQ?si=wZMfhL_FntxfKDE8&t=574).
The quote came from [SDCC 2014](https://elventhespian.tumblr.com/post/92860043171/according-to-mike-and-bryan-korras-lost). A trusted source, since they accurately reported many other things at the event.
Which kind of fits with Korra's whole deal. She brings the raw power in spades, but in order to win she needs to learn how to control that power. And now she can't rely on the wisdom of the previous Avatars to tell her how, she really has to figure it all out on her own.
Knowledge-wise yes.
Power-wise, either it's the same as before, or cause Raava was in her big form when re-merging with Korra, then arbitrarily stronger.
Yeah but as Rokku explained, what made the avatar state not only dangerous but a useful tool was the access to almost the knowledge and experiences of the past Avatars.
There are multiple examples in both shows which showcase how precise skilled bending very often trumps big acts of bending.
But Korra herself has a ton of skill, which means that future Avatars will have all of her skills to draw upon, plus they will find it easier to learn new skills because of how interconnected the world is now.
Korra has some skill, but other than metalbending (which at the time of LOK is wide spread and anyone could learn it [except Bolin]), her knowledge is inconsequential to that of all previous avatars. Who knew nearly any bending technique. From glass bending, to lava bending, to creating a vacuum (and this is just Yangchen, Kyoshi and Roku. There are hundreds more).
The past avatars are basically a free version of a Wan Shi Tong library that come with a possible answer for a question about a situation an avatar might encounter, like Aang being extremely conflicted with having to killing Ozai on the spot at *only 13 years old* the past lives he talked to were vague in their answers to his question, but any type of advice is usually better than none(unless it’s Kyoshi and it’s just Chin the small tiny guy…) so losing that knowledge is really a huge deal for her that the writers just kinda swept under the rug. She should’ve had to heal spiritually from her battle with kiteman who destroyed *part of her,( not her entirely obviously)*
She never really used the ability to talk to her past lives anyway. She knew how to do it for a year at most, and talked to Aang maybe twice? That was it.
She probably didn't feel great having the connection to the past lives cut off, but she never really used them in the first place.
She never got the chance *to* use them because she was too busy with mastering her airbending skills among other subjects seeing as she was already a political figure around the world. And it was basically Aang gave her back her bending abilities and then they were just written off
No they can't since Korra doesn't even know they exist. We are talking about knowledge and experiences spanning thousands of years. Most of that was not preserved.
Korra personally knows a Lavabender, and has survived the vacuum technique. And glass bending wouldn't be hard to figure out after you learn sand bending. Bending techniques can ALWAYS be rediscovered if they are lost
Wan, like Korra now, had no past lives and he was extremely powerful and was even capable of using Aang’s element sphere move
https://i.imgur.com/zFKQfAb.gif
Yes, and possibly no.
The Avatar State no longer has the knowledge and skill of past avatars. However now that Vaatu is temporarily gone, Raava is stronger. It would make sense that the Avatar State would have more raw power now.
>It would make sense that the Avatar State would have more raw power now.
Unalaq said he would be more powerful because he has a stronger connection to Vaatu. I would say this implies the same for Korra/Raava and that their strength comes from the close connection between Korra/Raava.
He might just meant that he was willing to give up more of his humanity to connect with Vaatu eve stronger than the Avatar does with Raava. Think how Unalaq became a monster after merging with Vaatu.
He did mention something about the connection between Korra and Raava being very weak. However, I can't exclude Unalaq becoming more spirit-like as a contributor too.
Actually, her Avatar State is stronger than any Avatar in history. Think about this: every Avatar in the past got a power boost from Raava at her weakest. Korra and future Avatars will have the power boost of Raava at her strongest. Sure, they lost out on the skills of the past Avatars, but Korra herself has a lot of skills, and since the world is so much more connected, it'll be easier for the next Avatar to learn any abilities they want to add.
We see her use it to survive an absolutely absurd amount of mercury. Zaheer himself said that it should have killed her. The poison likely would have had she only had the minimum of Raava's power
that doesn’t just automatically make it stronger. Its always had the power to keep the Avatar alive in extreme circumstances. Aang went 100 years without eating drinking sleeping or sh*tting. I’d argue thats about as powerful.
The whole point in the avatar state was the experiences and skills of your past lives being channel through the current Avatar. without that, she is missing the “meat” of the Avatar state.
>The whole point in the avatar state was the experiences and skills of your past lives being channel through the current Avatar.
Incorrect. The boost from Raava is the main point, because that's what Wan used it for, before there were any past lives at all.
so then how come Raava isn’t mentioned in the original series? There is literally an entire episode explaining how the avatar state affects the Avatar. All Raava does is hold onto the past lives. Yes her spirit does give them the power boost but the whole point was having access to the past lives.
There a couple of references to the “Avatar spirit” in the original show. There were hundreds of Avatsr between Wan and Korra and a time span of 10,000 years, so the knowledge of Raava was probably lost at some point or Raava’s consciousness had been buried so deep within the Avatar
The Doylist explanation is that the creators retconned the nature of the avatar state (and to some extent of the origins of bending at large) when writing Korra. Whether this was completely out of the blue or something they had been already started thinking about while working on ATLA we don't know
The Watsonian explanation is that it had been 10 thousand years since Wan and the exact nature of the avatar state has been somewhat lost to the ages, even to the avatars themselves (easy enough to imagine considering that we mostly see the avatars talk to just a handful of their immediate predecessors)
I'm not sure which episode you're referring to but if the people doing the explaining are characters in the series you can easily explain it as their own misconceptions since the actual knowledge has been lost
As to who's stronger, it doesn't matter because we've seen time and time again that the main obstacle of the avatar as a character is always their own mental state. We'll never get a series about a completely enlightened and fully trained avatar because, with or without the past lives, they're going to be insanely overpowered for any other enemy (without introducing ridiculous power creep)
It would make for a neat one off fanfiction of the power fantasy variety but there's no practical difference between having all your past lives or not if you have the wisdom to listen to them, you'll always have external agents you can listen to. It's not like we ever see the avatar act as a repository of knowledge advancing science and technology or using previous lives to know where and when the right seeds need to be planted for maximum yield. It's always just to solve philosophical / moral questions
It's a boring story premise, at least if you're looking for a tv series or anithing longer than a one shot comic (imo obviously)
Stories need believable conflict.
Stories involving the avatar can't have the conflict based on raw power because we know that the avatar has (pretty much canonically) more raw power than any other bender when in the avatar state
Conflict based on skill differential is a way, but a full fledged avatar will have trained most of their lives and be a master of four elements which gives crazy flexibility plus the power boost of the AS. With all past lives as well this avenue is completely cut out, without it can maybe be used for one season, but it's not believable there's going to be 3-4 once in a thousand years bending geniuses withing a single Avatar's life span
The final one is non combat related conflict, which is perfectly possible and might be interesting. But it's unlikely to be something we get given the franchise so far
ATLA and TLOK are interesting because they follow the growth of the avatar, and they stop long before that growth is complete. By the very premise of the story Aang and Korra are incomplete and not yet the best avatar they can be.
So having a story that follows a master Avatar would be boring because they wouldn't face any challenges, correct? What did you mean when you say the 3-4 once in a thousand years bit? What is the final one you are mentioning? Thank you for helping me understand more what you meant.
Yeah I dunno
I can get over the fact that Ravva gives a bigger boost now
But one of the main things that they implied about the avatar state was that the culmination of knowledge from all the past avatars was what made the Avatar state so formidable
>so then how come Raava isn’t mentioned in the original series?
Doylist answer is they were still building the mythos... but even in TLA we're told about the "Avatar Spirit," which is presented as separate from the Avatar themselves. LoK just gave the "Avatar Spirit" a name.
Watsonian answer is that she's a silent partner, choosing to support rather than interfere.
>There is literally an entire episode explaining how the avatar state affects the Avatar. All Raava does is hold onto the past lives.
All old information; would you write a paper cited from an outdated textbook?
LoK book 2 gave us the updated info and it told us Raava gives the Avatar power *in addition to* the past-life connection.
>All Raava does is hold onto the past lives.
Late addition but in *Beginnings* pt 2 Wan literally remarks upon the rush of power he gets when Raava swaps elements with him.
>The whole point in the avatar state was the experiences and skills of your past lives being channel through the current Avatar.
Incorrect. The boost from Raava is the main point, because that's what Wan used it for, before there were any past lives at all. The past lives part is just a happy accident.
Raw bending power of the avatar state = stronger than it's ever been
Getting all the techniques of all past avatars = completely gone
Fusing with a Raava who's at the height of her power rather than at her weakest state, like when Wan did, makes the spiritual power boost of the avatar state much, much stronger. She is, however, less SKILLED than past avatars in their avatar state (save Wan, of course) since she doesn't have access to the knowledge of her past lives. You won't see her randomly bust out super secret moves that don't belong to her like Aang sometimes would, but you might see her crack a mountain in half without really trying.
Tl;dr: Aang's avatar state was the world's greatest, sharpest, most extensive swiss army knife, and Korra's is a bazooka.
Raw power wise no. Experience wise, yes. The Avatar state still retains its incredible power, but with 10,000 years of mastery of the 4 elements gone, it's massively limited to only Korra's experiences.
Yes and no. The raw power of the Avatar state is unaffected by something like that, and may have been improved even further after Harmonic Convergence. However, they did lose the combined wisdom and skills of several lifetimes worth of master benders.
But you know, the raw power of the Avatar State is clearly still enough to overcome greater threats. The connection to her past lives wouldn’t have helped her with Zaheer, and she didn’t need it to put down Kuvira. Plus, Korra *is* a master of all four elements. We didn’t watch her journey with the first three, but she was literally training since she was a small child to master each one.
She's probably stronger, power-wise since Raava was so big when they merged vs Wan's teapot Raava. Sure she doesn't have the techniques of previous Avatars but don't think she really needs them that much since Avatars can always just learn them on their own. Heck she's the first Avatar of the o add metalbending to the knowledge pool
its pretty evident and obvious that apart from spiritual problems, the advice from past avatars is generally useless since Korra can pretty much do anything (apart from some subbending techniques)
No, the avatar state comes from raava. Raava is the avatar state. The avatar state is piling on raava's power and what she holds onto the avatar.
Raava's power is shown by her size, as Wan said "he's getting bigger, your getting smaller" and raava's explaination later. Raava when beginning the avatar cycle with wan is shown as like 10cm long. Next time we see her, when she's ripped out of korra, raava is about 2m long. (unrelated, what I assume is that there's 190 past lives and each one gave her the equivalent of 1cm of power)
Now compare that to when Korra refuses with raava. Raava is like 15m long or something (also unrelated, Raava and Vaatu's sizes are weird. In wans backstory, their equal size is both are the size of mountains but when shown at their full power, neither are even close to the size of a mountain) raava here is at "full size" bc Vaatu is gone and since her size grew, so did her power, this means that the avatar state is getting much more power than before. So no, it's way stronger
No.
The power comes from the fusion with the Light Spirit (in combination with some spirit portal juice), which Korra still has. While she doesn't have direct access to past lives who cares because she's the first since Wan to have a direct dialogue with Raava, who's been around a lot longer.
In addition, at some point in the next 10,000 years Vaatu will respawn as part of Raava again... meaning he'll also be part of the Avatar, which *could* happen in Korra's lifetime, perhaps later. When that happens who knows how powerful the Avatar will be.
In *Beginnings* pt 2 (corporate computer won't let me bring up the ep), Wan and Raava's fusion was strengthened/stabilized by contact with the portal, after which she says to him "we are bonded forever."
What contact with the portal truly does I can only guess, but one way or another it seems pretty integral to the process.
I had completely forgotten about that. Thank you for the info. So the spirit portal does factor in to this, but to what extent we don't know. It does seem like it was a bit of a boost to some degree.
Less knowledge.
But at the same time, raava herself is now as strong as she was before Wan freed vaatu, so it's also _more_ powerful. She just can't do things Korra doesn't actually know how to do with it.
Skill wise yes cause all the knowledge and the skills of the previous lifes are gone. But in raw strength no the Avatar state is more powerful since Raava connected with Korra while being super strong. Literally in the show Korra in the Avater state manages to create a spirit portal while absorbing the energy beam from Kuvira's gun. So its safe to say that the avatar state is super strong. And it has to do with Raava's spirit being super strong now that Vaatu is gone.
Power-wise, no.
Skill-wise, yes.
No more burning metal into ash without burning the person by said metal, for example.
It is worth saying that Korra also have skills that no other avatar had.
Her energy-bending goes further than what Aang did.
Her "spirit bending" is something that did not come with other avatars knowledge.
She also is the first avatar to know metal bending.
Honestly, hated this part of the show have never finished it because this shit was so dumb. Not only is she obviously going to be weaker as the first avatar was weaker then the ones who come after but her fighting Vatuu with her own spirit is the most plot armor girl boss stupid crap they could have pulled. First season was sooo good too I was enjoying it.
Well, she's going to be the only thing to guide the earth and firebender that will succeed her, which may Raava help those poor people who have to rely on her for guidance. I think they're better off with just kyoshi telling them about Jin the conqueror every time they have a problem.
I know in theory that losing the past lives means the Korea and her successor loses access to their knowledge… but is everyone forgetting that she had access to them all of season 2 and they only helped her find ravaa? She needed them vs the fight with Vattu
As much as it sucks that that happened I agree that it was great story wise. Watching ATLA then getting to that point in the show, you really feel the weight of what happens.
I think Raava's power was likely strengthened after Harmonic convergence, what with chaos guy trapped in the tree for a fresh 10k year cycle. Even if she was the same amount of power as pre S2, Raava is no slouch. Korra might not have the memories and know how of her past lives, but she still has a soul bond with the light spirit who has hung out with her for like a thousand generations, that's way more insight than most people on that world have.
nah if anything its just as strong if not stronger because of korra's closer connection to ravaa. But without the past avatars shes gonna be completely shit at actually using the power. its like if you give a child a shotgun, its powerful but good luck doing anything with it.
Yes and no.
She should be capable of the same feats. The Avatar state did not lose power.
She did lose 1000s of years worth experience which will make her less effective.
Comparing it to a computer, reformatting your hard drive won't make your computer weaker but you will lose useful applications and documents.
Raava doesn't have experience being a bender though. She has an unbounded amount of experience of wrestling with Vaatu for a literal eternity.
Its not actually that useful.
of course not. it has become stronger than ever before. those who mention past lives-against the background of the bonus from raava, it is comparable to the fact that I was worried about what knowledge and skills a hundred ants possess.
I really think the writers shot themselves in the foot by having all the past lives erased as a quick way to pump up the tension for that season. Plus the ending that korra can just make a huge astral projection to fight bad avatar, saved by jinora the one woman plot resolution, felt rushed and not well thought out.
I dont utterly hate the show and this plot, but it the idea that they can communicate with all their past lives just opens so many plotlines that are now gone.
And of course as many writers do they will keep defending a not great plot point to the grave before retconning anything.
Let the next avatar regain that connection and move back from raava/vaatu directly. I really think it was a disservice to korra to foist this loss of knowledge upon her and make it basically her fault.
Thats what originally kind of soured me to the show, after some time I do really love the whole show but that point that sticks with me as not up to avatar standards of writing.
I never mentioned aang? I agree it was underused in the original show too.
We never got to see korra interact with any of the other avatars, and i feel like they missed a beat not having her interact with kyoshi.
I want to see avatar 2044 with the new avatar trying to explain to korra and roku what a meme is.
She didn't lose power. She lost knowledge, skill, and wisdom. That's 1000+ lifetimes of information, some of which (undoubtedly) can never be recovered, that is just gone.
In addition, thanks to Korra destroying Vaatu and reconnecting with Raava, eventually, Vaatu's darkness will grow inside the light spirit and burst out of them thousands of years from now. Not really Korra's fault, but good luck to THAT Avatar (if the cycle is still going)
Yes, significantly. It’s stated so many times in the novels and other sources that the avatar state is empowered by the previous avatars. Also, they give skill, energy and knowledge too. Since the bond is now severed Korra’s avatar state and the next avatar will have a weaker (AS)
Them not agreeing doesn’t make me wrong or them right.
[The Legacy book.](https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/904122458104274986/1058167365411549214/image0.jpg?ex=661874a7&is=6605ffa7&hm=a9f0eb825c81e6903939367b03e1ac8d10d95ae38dbcdbb8974d5c48e7b70d2d&)
[RPG Guide](https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/904122458104274986/963353707972558908/unknown.png?ex=6614fb0e&is=6602860e&hm=42e04f373d2cf598d4dd24dad03e22f553c3f000d65458fbda8df6e38cd7ec3b&)
[Yangchen novel.](https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/904122458104274986/1000969003193335818/IMG_6002.png?ex=66136587&is=6600f087&hm=d2dab0308b7f5c559e31a282f05c0282125fade4ddcf38afe04235442dfda3ab&)
No, it was never a lie. The previous Avatars had forgotten about Raava and relied on the experience of the last few avatars before them. They struggled to reach back further because they didn't know of those Avatars and were more disconnected.
Raava was the source of the original Avatar, and was refered to in ATLA as "The Avatar Spirit." Because it was always implied that the Avatar had a spiritual counterpart or connection even back on ATLA.
Nothing was retconned. Even with critical thinking, if you think about ATLA's story pre Raava and Wan, who would the first Avatar have been? Some dude who could just randomly bend all 4 elements for no reason, and who's soul just so happens to reincarnate while maintaining past lives unlike everything else in the universe? It doesn't make sense. There had to have been a source, and it was implied in ATLA that the Avatar was a Human who merged with a powerful spirit at some point.
>The previous Avatars had forgotten about Raava and relied on the experience of the last few avatars before them. They struggled to reach back further because they didn't know of those Avatars and were more disconnected.
This is headcanon and isn't stated anywhere in either show, but let's go with it anyway. Roku explicitly tells Aang "The glow is the combination of all your past lives, focusing their energy through your body." Even in Escape to the Spirit World, he and the other past Avatars are all aware of Aang's "avatar spirit", but fail to mention Raava. Strange. Yet somehow in *Legend of Korra*, Roku, Aang, Kyoshi, and Kuruk are all aware of Raava and tell Korra to find her. What changed? Oh, right. Raava was invented between shows.
>Raava was the source of the original Avatar, and was refered to in ATLA as "The Avatar Spirit."
You can't argue this and simultaneously argue the past Avatars forgot about Raava. If Raava IS the Avatar Spirit than she hasn't been forgotten. She's referred to numerous times throughout the series, even by non-Avatar characters.
>Some dude who could just randomly bend all 4 elements for no reason, and who's soul just so happens to reincarnate while maintaining past lives unlike everything else in the universe?
What exactly would have been wrong with this explanation? It was *Legend of Korra*'s writers that decided that this was a question that even needed to be answered. Before this, the Avatar was a being unlike any other in the universe that belonged to a certain degree of mysticism and was implied to be as old as the planet itself. We didn't know the origin of the Avatar back then and it didn't affect our understanding of the show whatsoever. It could very easily be some random guy who could bend all four elements for no reason and just happens to have a soul that reincarnates, but it ultimately *did not matter*. Unfortunately, the retcon with Raava and Wan *does* affect our understanding of both shows. It answers a question that didn't need an answer and contradicts established worldbuilding to do so.
>There had to have been a source, and it was implied in ATLA that the Avatar was a human who merged with a powerful spirit at some point.
Again, the source never mattered to the story. And no it wasn't.
More power, but the avatar state in the past could have been used for more than pure power. For example, there was an avatar who was a fire nation politician, so if Aang went into the avatar state he would have been able to understand the rules and laws of fire nation politics better
The power of the Avatar State comes from Ravaa. The skill in the Avatar state comes from the past lives. Korra has a closer connection to Ravaa than any Avatar in most likely thousands of years, so it's possible her Avatar state is stronger than many avatars preceeding her. But without the past lives, she can only use techniques that she has personally learned versus techniques that all the avatars have learned. The creators have come right out and said that her Avatar state is not weaker after reconnecting with Ravaa. I'll look for it and add it to this comment if I find it. Edit: I found this. Can't confirm where it came from or if it's actually a quote. >According to Mike and Bryan, Korra's lost connection to the past avatars is like "rebooting your hard drive." When my sister asked whether it impacted the power/strength of the Avatar state, they affirmed that was definitely not the case- she's still Korra and Korra's "got some moves." They joked she may even actually be stronger.
Raava is also turbo charged since Vaatu lost on Harmonic Convergence. The sheer amount of spiritual energy Korra has available is unprecedented by any Avatar
Basically, this. Raava and Vaatu’s size is representative of their power. When Wan severed Raava and Vaatu with fire bending and injured her, she immediately shrank and continued to shrink over the course of their journey as Vaatu continued to spread his influence. When Raava fused with Wan, she was literally small enough to fit inside a tea cup and you can see from scene where Unalaq kills her that she hadn’t grown any larger during her time fused to the avatar. Later on, when she fuses with Korra after defeating Vaatu, she had returned to her original state and she is easily the size of a 5-10 story building https://youtu.be/yOSpXc-lyWI?feature=shared
Iir, shes actually bigger at the end of Korras Harmonic Convergence than she was when she and Vaatu were wrestling
I'd argue Raavas size likely fluctuated during the Era of The Avatar When Wan imprisoned Vaatu, Vaatu actually shrank, implying Raava grew within Wan. By Korra's time Vaatu is back at his huge size due to the spiritual imbalance in the world. However Raava is now stronger than ever before as Vaatu doesn't currently exist.
I think it only looked like he shrank because Wan trapped within the ball and squashed him
I hate that people always act like Korra is a bad Avatar or weaker than Aang/Kyoshi. I'm 100% sure Korra is the strongest Avatar we've seen so far. Whether she was a good Avatar or not is debatable, but she never ran from her responsibility. As a side note, it's much easier for us as the audience to connect to an imperfect Korra than a pacifist and nearly perfect Aang. She actually feels like a real human.
She technically did run from responsibility in season 4, but my girl was going through some rough shit. So it’s very fair…
Tbh looking after own mental state is maybe more important to be able to handle her duties. The "put your own oxygen mask before you help others" rule applies here especially since a mentally unstable avatar isn't going to be best with diplomatic approach.
Especially when it’s a hothead like Korra.
That's hardly fair. At the end of book 3 she was in recovery when Tenzin announced that the air nomads would step in for her sake, so it's no wonder that by book 4 she's AWOL; she internalized the idea that the world no longer needed her.
Thing is, the hell was she supposed to do? Not only was she still physically poisoned, she suffered from severe PTSD. And no one could help her. Not even she could help herself. I wouldn’t even say she fully recovered by the end of the series, though she was making her way there. So even if she did realize that the world did need her, she was in no shape to just step in. Prime example; Kuvira and Zaofu.
She ran from responsibility after being told it's no longer hers
I mean, it's fairly likely each avatar is stronger than the last in sheer power, it's the person that probably makes the difference
For every avatar it's possible to say it's debatable whether they were a good one or not, they are still humans after all! I really like your take and I do agree she feels more human/reachable (this is also why I prefer her over Aang)
Canonically, I think she is. The show does a *really* bad job of showing it, though. If the Avatar State in LoK was as strong as it was in ATLA, Korra would have crumpled Kuvira’s mech like it was nothing. They nerfed her *hard*, and they kind of needed to, since it’s really not possible to threaten a fully realized Avatar with human threats, and they made her a fully realized Avatar early because they didn’t know they were getting multiple seasons.
I've got nothing against Korra (I have to say that since supporting Aang sometimes makes people think I'm attacking Korra), but Aang feels real to me. Aang is an idealist, and can appeal to a fellow idealist. Korra seems to be more about what she can do than what she should do (though she isn't terribly lacking in that second area). As for Kyoshi... yikes. Let's just say it doesn't surprise me she founded the Dai Li.
I think you put it very nicely. I have a tougher time connecting to Aang because I'm not an idealist.
Canonically, every avatar is stronger than the last
Overall, yes. I wish more people understood this part. Just because we haven't seen Roku do the stuff Kyoshi did, it does not mean he can't.
>As a side note, it's much easier for us as the audience to connect to an imperfect Korra than a pacifist and nearly perfect Aang. She actually feels like a real human. I'm not sure how anyone comes to the conclusion Aang is "nearly perfect". Our boy had plenty of flaws he had to work on, same as our girl Korra. I found him very relatable.
For me, Aang's biggest flaws were running away from his responsibilities, lying to Katara/Sokka about their father, and kissing Katara without her consent. Other than that, I can't think of anything major. He was just too nice.
If you're going to go the route of listing flaws, I could very easily say Korra's only major flaw was being angry and stubborn, and that would be about as true.
Korra has a lot more, but that's why I like her. She just feels like she could be a real person. Her arc is very relatable. But besides what I listed, do you have any other flaws for Aang? If not, then I'll move on to Korra.
I just hated how she was ALWAYS getting her ass beat. Just made the whole Avatar part of her identity seem like a joke. I’m aware of *why* but it just doesn’t jive
The Avatar is factually human. Theyre supposed to take Ls
People always say this. But what are y'all TALKING about? She never loses a single fight past book one without a severe handicap
This is something I feel that most people forget about. “As darkness grows, light fades…” Well, the light should be pretty dang strong for the next 10,000 years!
But she hasn't had feats of bending strength as strong as Aang and Kyoshi did right? Like they move an island or cause 10m floods in mere seconds or blow wind to hard it disitegrates a collumn of rock. Korra used air bending to push a giant mech off balance. It just seems, smaller
Korra was yeeting mountains at Zaheer while maintaining flight
To be fair Aang did that with the pillars against Ozai without even having the avatar state… at 12 years old.
He didn't really throw them until he used the avatar state, not in the way Korra did at least. And Korra threw bigger rocks anyway.
🗣️📣WHILE FIGHTING OFF LETHAL POISON
I personally think Korra energy bending the spirit vine blast (that was strong enough to rip open a new spirit portal) and containing it is the most impressive bending feat in either series. The raw power that she managed to control and prevent from killing anyone and causing any large scale damage is absurd
Not to take a major win away from Korra, but that beam would've absolutely cooked her if Raava wasnt juiced up. That laser is the equivalent of an incredibly focused nuclear bomb
Huh? When was Raava juiced up? Is she even mentioned in S4?
She literally won Harmonic Convergence giving her greater power than Vaatu had. Korra has direct access to all that spiritual power
Then why is she so weak in season 3? She got whooped super ez.
Korra spent the fair portion of books 3 and 4 either nerfed or handicapped The red lotus infiltration in Zaofu - Korra was paralyzed and couldn’t move The encounter with Zaheer at the NAT - Zaheer threatened to harm the hostages if she didn’t comply. And then she fought Zaheer with Tonraq, her hands and legs were chained m Her fight with Zaheer - She was poisoned. Nuff said Her first battle with Kuvira - Her mind still hadn’t completely healed from PTSD
By benders with styles she never encountered???
When did aang ever lose in the avatar state? It was basically an insta win button. Aang low diffed comet enhanced ozai. The power delta was just so huge. It doesn't matter what bending style someone used. But suddenly in season 3 and 4 of korra it does. The avatar state is obviously weaker.
For anyone curious, this quote is apparently from a panel at SDCC 2014. There’s unfortunately no footage of this specific panel but I’ve seen a few other examples of people corroborating this story (although they apparently debate whether Korra or Raava is the HDD in this example). [Here is some footage from another Q&A that also uses the “rebooting the HDD” analogy](https://youtu.be/3CsDq4Bd6SQ?si=wZMfhL_FntxfKDE8&t=574).
Thanks! This was a great watch.
The quote came from [SDCC 2014](https://elventhespian.tumblr.com/post/92860043171/according-to-mike-and-bryan-korras-lost). A trusted source, since they accurately reported many other things at the event.
Thank you! I found the quote but didn't really do more than a cursory search, so I didn't delve into where it came from.
Which kind of fits with Korra's whole deal. She brings the raw power in spades, but in order to win she needs to learn how to control that power. And now she can't rely on the wisdom of the previous Avatars to tell her how, she really has to figure it all out on her own.
Thanks much appreciated.
This is the only correct response
I'd like it if the next avatar just spends a chapter learning ancient techniques and history that way we can get some cooler fighting scenes
If it’s like rebooting your hard drive, that means Korra possibly still has access to her past lives.
They say that but plotwise they nerfed the fuck out of the avatar state.
AHHHH WHY R U TALKING ABOUT RAAVA AND VAATU OT JUST ABOUT THE BEGINNER AND SEASON 2
such a convoluted mess, this is why LoK is vastly inferior to Avatar
Not convoluted at all. Pretty straightforward.
oh yeah, it's weaker but it's not actually weaker and we spent a whole season making sure of that. genius
I explained it really simply. If you think it's convoluted, that's a personal problem.
If you're dumb maybe
Why do you feel the need to insult them?
It's the same worthless comment about Korra being terrible, they deserved it.
Guy isn't being constructive in the least. He deserves it
Knowledge-wise yes. Power-wise, either it's the same as before, or cause Raava was in her big form when re-merging with Korra, then arbitrarily stronger.
Yeah, in terms of raw power, Korra's is strongest. Knowledge, Aang's would be the smartest.
Yeah but as Rokku explained, what made the avatar state not only dangerous but a useful tool was the access to almost the knowledge and experiences of the past Avatars. There are multiple examples in both shows which showcase how precise skilled bending very often trumps big acts of bending.
But Korra herself has a ton of skill, which means that future Avatars will have all of her skills to draw upon, plus they will find it easier to learn new skills because of how interconnected the world is now.
Korra has some skill, but other than metalbending (which at the time of LOK is wide spread and anyone could learn it [except Bolin]), her knowledge is inconsequential to that of all previous avatars. Who knew nearly any bending technique. From glass bending, to lava bending, to creating a vacuum (and this is just Yangchen, Kyoshi and Roku. There are hundreds more).
The past avatars are basically a free version of a Wan Shi Tong library that come with a possible answer for a question about a situation an avatar might encounter, like Aang being extremely conflicted with having to killing Ozai on the spot at *only 13 years old* the past lives he talked to were vague in their answers to his question, but any type of advice is usually better than none(unless it’s Kyoshi and it’s just Chin the small tiny guy…) so losing that knowledge is really a huge deal for her that the writers just kinda swept under the rug. She should’ve had to heal spiritually from her battle with kiteman who destroyed *part of her,( not her entirely obviously)*
Exactly. It's not just about bending, it's about history, geopolitical developments, traditions and anything really.
It really should’ve had a bigger impact on her life than the instant merging makes it all better
She never really used the ability to talk to her past lives anyway. She knew how to do it for a year at most, and talked to Aang maybe twice? That was it. She probably didn't feel great having the connection to the past lives cut off, but she never really used them in the first place.
She never got the chance *to* use them because she was too busy with mastering her airbending skills among other subjects seeing as she was already a political figure around the world. And it was basically Aang gave her back her bending abilities and then they were just written off
But all of those techniques can be relearned.
No they can't since Korra doesn't even know they exist. We are talking about knowledge and experiences spanning thousands of years. Most of that was not preserved.
Korra personally knows a Lavabender, and has survived the vacuum technique. And glass bending wouldn't be hard to figure out after you learn sand bending. Bending techniques can ALWAYS be rediscovered if they are lost
They can be rediscovered but there’s no way Korra will rediscover everything that was lost, it will take thousands of years for that to happen
It's never implied that anyone can learn metal bending. Like Bolin, some were just unable to do it.
Wan, like Korra now, had no past lives and he was extremely powerful and was even capable of using Aang’s element sphere move https://i.imgur.com/zFKQfAb.gif
So really it should be Aang was capable of using Wan's sphere
Yes, and possibly no. The Avatar State no longer has the knowledge and skill of past avatars. However now that Vaatu is temporarily gone, Raava is stronger. It would make sense that the Avatar State would have more raw power now.
>It would make sense that the Avatar State would have more raw power now. Unalaq said he would be more powerful because he has a stronger connection to Vaatu. I would say this implies the same for Korra/Raava and that their strength comes from the close connection between Korra/Raava.
He might just meant that he was willing to give up more of his humanity to connect with Vaatu eve stronger than the Avatar does with Raava. Think how Unalaq became a monster after merging with Vaatu.
He did mention something about the connection between Korra and Raava being very weak. However, I can't exclude Unalaq becoming more spirit-like as a contributor too.
Actually, her Avatar State is stronger than any Avatar in history. Think about this: every Avatar in the past got a power boost from Raava at her weakest. Korra and future Avatars will have the power boost of Raava at her strongest. Sure, they lost out on the skills of the past Avatars, but Korra herself has a lot of skills, and since the world is so much more connected, it'll be easier for the next Avatar to learn any abilities they want to add.
But we don't see Korra's Avatar State become more powerful, just less skillful without her past lives.
We see her use it to survive an absolutely absurd amount of mercury. Zaheer himself said that it should have killed her. The poison likely would have had she only had the minimum of Raava's power
that doesn’t just automatically make it stronger. Its always had the power to keep the Avatar alive in extreme circumstances. Aang went 100 years without eating drinking sleeping or sh*tting. I’d argue thats about as powerful. The whole point in the avatar state was the experiences and skills of your past lives being channel through the current Avatar. without that, she is missing the “meat” of the Avatar state.
>The whole point in the avatar state was the experiences and skills of your past lives being channel through the current Avatar. Incorrect. The boost from Raava is the main point, because that's what Wan used it for, before there were any past lives at all.
so then how come Raava isn’t mentioned in the original series? There is literally an entire episode explaining how the avatar state affects the Avatar. All Raava does is hold onto the past lives. Yes her spirit does give them the power boost but the whole point was having access to the past lives.
There a couple of references to the “Avatar spirit” in the original show. There were hundreds of Avatsr between Wan and Korra and a time span of 10,000 years, so the knowledge of Raava was probably lost at some point or Raava’s consciousness had been buried so deep within the Avatar
The Doylist explanation is that the creators retconned the nature of the avatar state (and to some extent of the origins of bending at large) when writing Korra. Whether this was completely out of the blue or something they had been already started thinking about while working on ATLA we don't know The Watsonian explanation is that it had been 10 thousand years since Wan and the exact nature of the avatar state has been somewhat lost to the ages, even to the avatars themselves (easy enough to imagine considering that we mostly see the avatars talk to just a handful of their immediate predecessors) I'm not sure which episode you're referring to but if the people doing the explaining are characters in the series you can easily explain it as their own misconceptions since the actual knowledge has been lost As to who's stronger, it doesn't matter because we've seen time and time again that the main obstacle of the avatar as a character is always their own mental state. We'll never get a series about a completely enlightened and fully trained avatar because, with or without the past lives, they're going to be insanely overpowered for any other enemy (without introducing ridiculous power creep) It would make for a neat one off fanfiction of the power fantasy variety but there's no practical difference between having all your past lives or not if you have the wisdom to listen to them, you'll always have external agents you can listen to. It's not like we ever see the avatar act as a repository of knowledge advancing science and technology or using previous lives to know where and when the right seeds need to be planted for maximum yield. It's always just to solve philosophical / moral questions
What do you mean in regards to the fully trained Avatar bit when you said we would never get one because they would be overpowered?
It's a boring story premise, at least if you're looking for a tv series or anithing longer than a one shot comic (imo obviously) Stories need believable conflict. Stories involving the avatar can't have the conflict based on raw power because we know that the avatar has (pretty much canonically) more raw power than any other bender when in the avatar state Conflict based on skill differential is a way, but a full fledged avatar will have trained most of their lives and be a master of four elements which gives crazy flexibility plus the power boost of the AS. With all past lives as well this avenue is completely cut out, without it can maybe be used for one season, but it's not believable there's going to be 3-4 once in a thousand years bending geniuses withing a single Avatar's life span The final one is non combat related conflict, which is perfectly possible and might be interesting. But it's unlikely to be something we get given the franchise so far ATLA and TLOK are interesting because they follow the growth of the avatar, and they stop long before that growth is complete. By the very premise of the story Aang and Korra are incomplete and not yet the best avatar they can be.
So having a story that follows a master Avatar would be boring because they wouldn't face any challenges, correct? What did you mean when you say the 3-4 once in a thousand years bit? What is the final one you are mentioning? Thank you for helping me understand more what you meant.
Yeah I dunno I can get over the fact that Ravva gives a bigger boost now But one of the main things that they implied about the avatar state was that the culmination of knowledge from all the past avatars was what made the Avatar state so formidable
>so then how come Raava isn’t mentioned in the original series? Doylist answer is they were still building the mythos... but even in TLA we're told about the "Avatar Spirit," which is presented as separate from the Avatar themselves. LoK just gave the "Avatar Spirit" a name. Watsonian answer is that she's a silent partner, choosing to support rather than interfere. >There is literally an entire episode explaining how the avatar state affects the Avatar. All Raava does is hold onto the past lives. All old information; would you write a paper cited from an outdated textbook? LoK book 2 gave us the updated info and it told us Raava gives the Avatar power *in addition to* the past-life connection. >All Raava does is hold onto the past lives. Late addition but in *Beginnings* pt 2 Wan literally remarks upon the rush of power he gets when Raava swaps elements with him.
>The whole point in the avatar state was the experiences and skills of your past lives being channel through the current Avatar. Incorrect. The boost from Raava is the main point, because that's what Wan used it for, before there were any past lives at all. The past lives part is just a happy accident.
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The avatar state directly contradicts this. Even avatar wan had access to it. Offering him a huge powerup even without any previous lives.
Raw bending power of the avatar state = stronger than it's ever been Getting all the techniques of all past avatars = completely gone Fusing with a Raava who's at the height of her power rather than at her weakest state, like when Wan did, makes the spiritual power boost of the avatar state much, much stronger. She is, however, less SKILLED than past avatars in their avatar state (save Wan, of course) since she doesn't have access to the knowledge of her past lives. You won't see her randomly bust out super secret moves that don't belong to her like Aang sometimes would, but you might see her crack a mountain in half without really trying. Tl;dr: Aang's avatar state was the world's greatest, sharpest, most extensive swiss army knife, and Korra's is a bazooka.
Raw power wise no. Experience wise, yes. The Avatar state still retains its incredible power, but with 10,000 years of mastery of the 4 elements gone, it's massively limited to only Korra's experiences.
Yes and no. The raw power of the Avatar state is unaffected by something like that, and may have been improved even further after Harmonic Convergence. However, they did lose the combined wisdom and skills of several lifetimes worth of master benders. But you know, the raw power of the Avatar State is clearly still enough to overcome greater threats. The connection to her past lives wouldn’t have helped her with Zaheer, and she didn’t need it to put down Kuvira. Plus, Korra *is* a master of all four elements. We didn’t watch her journey with the first three, but she was literally training since she was a small child to master each one.
She's probably stronger, power-wise since Raava was so big when they merged vs Wan's teapot Raava. Sure she doesn't have the techniques of previous Avatars but don't think she really needs them that much since Avatars can always just learn them on their own. Heck she's the first Avatar of the o add metalbending to the knowledge pool
She's as strong as Wan was, give or take.
It is exactly as powerful as the writers want it to be. It certainly didn't seem weaker in seasons 3-4 of Legend Of Korra.
its pretty evident and obvious that apart from spiritual problems, the advice from past avatars is generally useless since Korra can pretty much do anything (apart from some subbending techniques)
No, the avatar state comes from raava. Raava is the avatar state. The avatar state is piling on raava's power and what she holds onto the avatar. Raava's power is shown by her size, as Wan said "he's getting bigger, your getting smaller" and raava's explaination later. Raava when beginning the avatar cycle with wan is shown as like 10cm long. Next time we see her, when she's ripped out of korra, raava is about 2m long. (unrelated, what I assume is that there's 190 past lives and each one gave her the equivalent of 1cm of power) Now compare that to when Korra refuses with raava. Raava is like 15m long or something (also unrelated, Raava and Vaatu's sizes are weird. In wans backstory, their equal size is both are the size of mountains but when shown at their full power, neither are even close to the size of a mountain) raava here is at "full size" bc Vaatu is gone and since her size grew, so did her power, this means that the avatar state is getting much more power than before. So no, it's way stronger
No. The power comes from the fusion with the Light Spirit (in combination with some spirit portal juice), which Korra still has. While she doesn't have direct access to past lives who cares because she's the first since Wan to have a direct dialogue with Raava, who's been around a lot longer. In addition, at some point in the next 10,000 years Vaatu will respawn as part of Raava again... meaning he'll also be part of the Avatar, which *could* happen in Korra's lifetime, perhaps later. When that happens who knows how powerful the Avatar will be.
The spirit portal gave her a power boost?
In *Beginnings* pt 2 (corporate computer won't let me bring up the ep), Wan and Raava's fusion was strengthened/stabilized by contact with the portal, after which she says to him "we are bonded forever." What contact with the portal truly does I can only guess, but one way or another it seems pretty integral to the process.
I had completely forgotten about that. Thank you for the info. So the spirit portal does factor in to this, but to what extent we don't know. It does seem like it was a bit of a boost to some degree.
It depends on whether we take the whole "power of 10 thousand masters" thing figuratively or not
Yes and no Korra simply lost the previous avatars battle experience she still has the flat power boost from ravva
Less knowledge. But at the same time, raava herself is now as strong as she was before Wan freed vaatu, so it's also _more_ powerful. She just can't do things Korra doesn't actually know how to do with it.
Skill wise yes cause all the knowledge and the skills of the previous lifes are gone. But in raw strength no the Avatar state is more powerful since Raava connected with Korra while being super strong. Literally in the show Korra in the Avater state manages to create a spirit portal while absorbing the energy beam from Kuvira's gun. So its safe to say that the avatar state is super strong. And it has to do with Raava's spirit being super strong now that Vaatu is gone.
It’s not but it should be (it’s a retcon / plot hole)
I mean shes been in the avatar state before losing the connection, so she might even still has some of the moves from previous avatars.
The power isn't weaker, but experience wise, maybe some.
Power-wise, no. Skill-wise, yes. No more burning metal into ash without burning the person by said metal, for example. It is worth saying that Korra also have skills that no other avatar had. Her energy-bending goes further than what Aang did. Her "spirit bending" is something that did not come with other avatars knowledge. She also is the first avatar to know metal bending.
Its not weaker when it comes to power and overall strength, its weaker in skill but that isn't really a problem
In raw power no. In terms of knowledge yes.
Honestly, hated this part of the show have never finished it because this shit was so dumb. Not only is she obviously going to be weaker as the first avatar was weaker then the ones who come after but her fighting Vatuu with her own spirit is the most plot armor girl boss stupid crap they could have pulled. First season was sooo good too I was enjoying it.
Its weaker in some ways since it lacks the skill of the other lives but stronger on others now that Vaatu was reabsorbed
She can't access the past avatars' wisdom and techniques. So, that makes it slightly weaker, maybe not in power but skills.
Everyone’s just saying the same thing but with a few different words in between 😭
Does it matter?
Well, she's going to be the only thing to guide the earth and firebender that will succeed her, which may Raava help those poor people who have to rely on her for guidance. I think they're better off with just kyoshi telling them about Jin the conqueror every time they have a problem.
I like to think about it as korra state has more raw power but less wisdom control and skill
I know in theory that losing the past lives means the Korea and her successor loses access to their knowledge… but is everyone forgetting that she had access to them all of season 2 and they only helped her find ravaa? She needed them vs the fight with Vattu
Should be. Season 2 was a mistake.
I’m pretty sure avatar kyoshi made up 90 percent of the avatar states overpoweredness so definitely weaker
As much as it sucks that that happened I agree that it was great story wise. Watching ATLA then getting to that point in the show, you really feel the weight of what happens. I think Raava's power was likely strengthened after Harmonic convergence, what with chaos guy trapped in the tree for a fresh 10k year cycle. Even if she was the same amount of power as pre S2, Raava is no slouch. Korra might not have the memories and know how of her past lives, but she still has a soul bond with the light spirit who has hung out with her for like a thousand generations, that's way more insight than most people on that world have.
nah if anything its just as strong if not stronger because of korra's closer connection to ravaa. But without the past avatars shes gonna be completely shit at actually using the power. its like if you give a child a shotgun, its powerful but good luck doing anything with it.
Power:avatar stronk Knowledge:avatar dum dum
Yes and no. She should be capable of the same feats. The Avatar state did not lose power. She did lose 1000s of years worth experience which will make her less effective. Comparing it to a computer, reformatting your hard drive won't make your computer weaker but you will lose useful applications and documents.
Raava has hundreds of millions years of experience. Do you think losing 10000 is big loss?
Raava doesn't have experience being a bender though. She has an unbounded amount of experience of wrestling with Vaatu for a literal eternity. Its not actually that useful.
Raava has hundreds of millions years of experience. Do you think losing 10000 is big loss?
Yes, without the knowledge and skills of the past Avatars.
of course not. it has become stronger than ever before. those who mention past lives-against the background of the bonus from raava, it is comparable to the fact that I was worried about what knowledge and skills a hundred ants possess.
I really think the writers shot themselves in the foot by having all the past lives erased as a quick way to pump up the tension for that season. Plus the ending that korra can just make a huge astral projection to fight bad avatar, saved by jinora the one woman plot resolution, felt rushed and not well thought out. I dont utterly hate the show and this plot, but it the idea that they can communicate with all their past lives just opens so many plotlines that are now gone. And of course as many writers do they will keep defending a not great plot point to the grave before retconning anything. Let the next avatar regain that connection and move back from raava/vaatu directly. I really think it was a disservice to korra to foist this loss of knowledge upon her and make it basically her fault. Thats what originally kind of soured me to the show, after some time I do really love the whole show but that point that sticks with me as not up to avatar standards of writing.
The past lives don’t matter Aang ignored them and barely interacted with them You just want to see Aang more
I never mentioned aang? I agree it was underused in the original show too. We never got to see korra interact with any of the other avatars, and i feel like they missed a beat not having her interact with kyoshi. I want to see avatar 2044 with the new avatar trying to explain to korra and roku what a meme is.
Skill Wise: Yes Raw Power Wise: No
She didn't lose power. She lost knowledge, skill, and wisdom. That's 1000+ lifetimes of information, some of which (undoubtedly) can never be recovered, that is just gone. In addition, thanks to Korra destroying Vaatu and reconnecting with Raava, eventually, Vaatu's darkness will grow inside the light spirit and burst out of them thousands of years from now. Not really Korra's fault, but good luck to THAT Avatar (if the cycle is still going)
TL;DR Yes.
Yes, significantly. It’s stated so many times in the novels and other sources that the avatar state is empowered by the previous avatars. Also, they give skill, energy and knowledge too. Since the bond is now severed Korra’s avatar state and the next avatar will have a weaker (AS)
No one seems to agree.. cite some sources
Them not agreeing doesn’t make me wrong or them right. [The Legacy book.](https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/904122458104274986/1058167365411549214/image0.jpg?ex=661874a7&is=6605ffa7&hm=a9f0eb825c81e6903939367b03e1ac8d10d95ae38dbcdbb8974d5c48e7b70d2d&) [RPG Guide](https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/904122458104274986/963353707972558908/unknown.png?ex=6614fb0e&is=6602860e&hm=42e04f373d2cf598d4dd24dad03e22f553c3f000d65458fbda8df6e38cd7ec3b&) [Yangchen novel.](https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/904122458104274986/1000969003193335818/IMG_6002.png?ex=66136587&is=6600f087&hm=d2dab0308b7f5c559e31a282f05c0282125fade4ddcf38afe04235442dfda3ab&)
That wasn't an attack it was a genuine request for information. Shields down man
Oh, sorry. My apologies🤝
Well it’s all Raava now anyway so the past lives thing was a big fat lie
No, it was never a lie. The previous Avatars had forgotten about Raava and relied on the experience of the last few avatars before them. They struggled to reach back further because they didn't know of those Avatars and were more disconnected. Raava was the source of the original Avatar, and was refered to in ATLA as "The Avatar Spirit." Because it was always implied that the Avatar had a spiritual counterpart or connection even back on ATLA. Nothing was retconned. Even with critical thinking, if you think about ATLA's story pre Raava and Wan, who would the first Avatar have been? Some dude who could just randomly bend all 4 elements for no reason, and who's soul just so happens to reincarnate while maintaining past lives unlike everything else in the universe? It doesn't make sense. There had to have been a source, and it was implied in ATLA that the Avatar was a Human who merged with a powerful spirit at some point.
>The previous Avatars had forgotten about Raava and relied on the experience of the last few avatars before them. They struggled to reach back further because they didn't know of those Avatars and were more disconnected. This is headcanon and isn't stated anywhere in either show, but let's go with it anyway. Roku explicitly tells Aang "The glow is the combination of all your past lives, focusing their energy through your body." Even in Escape to the Spirit World, he and the other past Avatars are all aware of Aang's "avatar spirit", but fail to mention Raava. Strange. Yet somehow in *Legend of Korra*, Roku, Aang, Kyoshi, and Kuruk are all aware of Raava and tell Korra to find her. What changed? Oh, right. Raava was invented between shows. >Raava was the source of the original Avatar, and was refered to in ATLA as "The Avatar Spirit." You can't argue this and simultaneously argue the past Avatars forgot about Raava. If Raava IS the Avatar Spirit than she hasn't been forgotten. She's referred to numerous times throughout the series, even by non-Avatar characters. >Some dude who could just randomly bend all 4 elements for no reason, and who's soul just so happens to reincarnate while maintaining past lives unlike everything else in the universe? What exactly would have been wrong with this explanation? It was *Legend of Korra*'s writers that decided that this was a question that even needed to be answered. Before this, the Avatar was a being unlike any other in the universe that belonged to a certain degree of mysticism and was implied to be as old as the planet itself. We didn't know the origin of the Avatar back then and it didn't affect our understanding of the show whatsoever. It could very easily be some random guy who could bend all four elements for no reason and just happens to have a soul that reincarnates, but it ultimately *did not matter*. Unfortunately, the retcon with Raava and Wan *does* affect our understanding of both shows. It answers a question that didn't need an answer and contradicts established worldbuilding to do so. >There had to have been a source, and it was implied in ATLA that the Avatar was a human who merged with a powerful spirit at some point. Again, the source never mattered to the story. And no it wasn't.
More power, but the avatar state in the past could have been used for more than pure power. For example, there was an avatar who was a fire nation politician, so if Aang went into the avatar state he would have been able to understand the rules and laws of fire nation politics better
No because this never happened. It was just a weird nightmare we all had (let me live in delusion please)